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help me (balancing my science and tax rate)

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  • Caesar the Great
    replied
    The main problem with this is that if you look at one of my previous posts, about science rates... you will find that 288 won't get you far... caravans help a lot, but you cannot rely on that ONE city for all your science for very long or you will fall behind. I'll try to find the post...

    Here we go http://apolyton.net/forums/Forum3/HTML/000881.html

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  • Xin Yu
    replied
    Adam Smith: Yes, your repeated commodity trading strategy will work fine. But still you'll need money the most (for building aqueducts, sewing system, and transports), so I think we may need to put more weight on tax.

    Tobyr: OK, I'll write a separate thread for the summation. Thanks for the suggestion.

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  • tobyr
    replied
    Xin Yu,
    Your posts in this thread are of general interest, and many people will miss them. Could you wrap up your observations into a column?

    - toby


    ------------------
    toby robison
    criticalpaths@mindspring.com

    Leave a comment:


  • tobyr
    replied
    Xin Yu,
    Your posts in this thread are of general interest, and many people will miss them. Could you wrap up your observations into a column?

    - toby


    ------------------
    toby robison
    criticalpaths@mindspring.com

    Leave a comment:


  • Adam Smith
    replied
    Xin:
    So the 288 is assuming science rate = 0. Now I understand.

    If you use the Repeated Commodity Trade Strategy, you can almost always find a demand for what you supply, so the trade bonus is more than 100.

    ------------------
    "I fear that I shall die a Prince."
    -Edward VII, Prince of Wales

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  • Xin Yu
    replied
    Adam Smith: with 0% science only scientists can contribute to science. Trade routes have no effect .

    I'm open to the opinion of maximizing science after democracy up to automobile. However immediately after democracy cities are going through population growth so money seems to be more important. The trade bonus at this time gives less than 100 golds for unmatched merchandise .

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  • Sten Sture
    replied
    time out on this post...


    okay, after thinking about it I see the 288 or there abouts... 16*3+48trade*1.5^4

    Xin is that what you are thinking too?

    edit, no I guess not, trade routes wouldn't count, so the 16 scientists at 3 beakers each get raised by 150%^4. Or do they get more than 3?

    [This message has been edited by Sten Sture (edited March 07, 2000).]

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  • Adam Smith
    replied
    Xin:
    288 for an SSC?? A good-sized SSC should give you 800-1000 prior to superhighways, 1200-1500 after superhighways and research lab. Perhaps you forgot to count the value of three trade routes in the SSC or the fact that scientists give you more lightbulbs than it says in the manual.

    I agree with your logic that 0% science lets you devote more resources to science, but a good trade strategy lets you get into the exception you cite. Figure 1200 science from SSC, plus four freight units per turn at about 700 science (and coins) each, for a total of 4000 science per turn, enough to get you one discovery per turn no matter what. Even with 0% taxes, you get 2800 coins per turn from trade, which is enough to rush-buy the four trade caravans you need every turn and still put 2000 per turn into the treasury. Rush-buying caravans is self-sustaining. Its like printing your own money.

    ------------------
    "I fear that I shall die a Prince."
    -Edward VII, Prince of Wales


    [This message has been edited by Adam Smith (edited March 07, 2000).]

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  • Xin Yu
    replied
    In MP games trade is the key. I'll switch to 0% science after trade instead of monarchy.

    The setting of 0% science, 70% tax, 30% luxury, and only build marketplace/banks has two benefits.

    First, marketplace/banks increases both tax and luxury, so you get 100% benefit from your tax rate settings (tax+luxury=100%). Library/university can only increase science so you may never get the full advantage of it.

    Second, high luxury rate takes care of the happiness problem, and your cities can celebrate WLTKD which in turn increases your tax revenue.

    The drawback of this setting is that science advance is gone. But you can build caravans! Caravans can be recycled (trade, use the bonus to buy another caravan, trade again) and they build trade routes! Who needs science if there's another way to get an advance?

    Leave a comment:


  • inca911
    replied
    I think it is brilliant the way Xin establishes balanced tax/luxury/science for his game by setting the tax/luxury/science rates extremely unbalanced!! I've been using caravans to obtain science advances/gold, but Xin's method goes one BIG step further! I'll be trying that method in my next game, just as soon as I kill all these pesky Babylons. Thanks Xin!!!!

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  • Xin Yu
    replied
    SSC gives 288 science (16 scientists, library, university, newton, copenius) and you may need a food caravan every now and then to keep the city from starving.

    The number of caravans needed depends on your city size. You may need as many as 20 caravans trading on two continents at first. They are worthless . But once you can build freights and superhighways you need only 3-4 freights. The good news is, they are only 10 turns away from democracy .

    The logic of putting science to 0% on democracy is that we can use the extra money to buy caravans. Ironically by doing this we put MORE resources to science: not only the trade icons, but also the shield productions are used towards the next advance. One exception is that if, after buying caravans in all cities in one turn, we still have more money left, then we should raise the science rate and cut the tax. Another factor is that we only build marketplace/bank in cities so for one science bulb sacreficed we get two tax coins. We don't build library/university since they are only useful for a short period of time (after invention and before superhighways).

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  • Adam Smith
    replied
    Doesnt the strategy depend on the situation? For example, if you are playing "no birbe cities" in MGE, then bribing to get technology wont work. If you are playing against the AI on a large board, same problem, since they can be hard to reach. Playing against the AI on a large or medium board I prefer to max out science, build the SSC, and use caravans to keep the treasury filled. When I start pulling away in science (usually about the time of invention) I will often trade science for money in order to keep building up my infrastructure and minimize the program-imposed science handicap.

    ------------------
    "I fear that I shall die a Prince."
    -Edward VII, Prince of Wales


    [This message has been edited by Adam Smith (edited March 07, 2000).]

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  • Scouse Gits
    replied
    Xin - Fearsome analysis as usual - just one question.
    In the Democracy phase how many cities building how many caravans to get one advance per turn with science at 0% only one scientist and only one city (SSC) with the science improvements?

    ------------------
    ____________
    Scouse Git[1]

    "CARTAGO DELENDA EST" - Cato the Censor

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  • Civ-wrecked
    replied
    Xin,
    As usual, you have the most radical ideas which works better than the norm . I notice that all Civ-related games have some
    sort of "equalizer" factor and will penalize you if you're too far ahead, or help you along to catch up if you're far behind.
    Since you're turning off the science rate probably you will simply get a better chance of getting advances from huts and are given new techs from other civs as well (or the AI penalize the other Civs instead). Of course, bribery will get you to Invention in a few turns after someone gets it .
    What's unfair is that the equalization formula doesn't take into account your other
    infrastructure factors, like number of bases, big populations, and oodles of cash on hand. By the time you turn your science rate back on the other Civs will be probably be left in
    the dust.
    Anyway, I have to check this out. Just got back to CivII after a year on SMACs (and a week or two on CTP). How fast you do get to Future Tech using this strategy ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Sten Sture
    replied
    be afraid, be very afraid

    Leave a comment:

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