"Civilization IV: Warlords" Video Preview (Part 1/3)

[padillah]

Originally posted by Tim_Augustus
You could do the same using a video capture card in a pc to capture the AV output (as the projector displays) and the DV camera for presenter and crowd shots...

True. Thank you.

I sometimes get jaded by the medium that I am comfortable with and forget things like this.

Tom P.

[DanQ]

Originally posted by Wise Ass
If you tell me the model camcorder[...]

It's a Sony HandyCam DCR-H26.

Originally posted by padillah
Or, better yet, some tools for editing the video.

Absolutely.

-------
Dan; Apolyton CS

[Tim_Augustus]

Originally posted by padillah


Very good point. But this would require two camcorders: one for the video demonstration and one for crowd reaction.

However, if you happen to HAVE two camcorders (it's not unheard of) that would be a much better way to do it.

It would also eliminate having to whip the POI from screen to person and back. Live events are so hard to document because you never know where the POI will be next.

Tom P.

You could do the same using a video capture card in a pc to capture the AV output (as the projector displays) and the DV camera for presenter and crowd shots...

[padillah]

Originally posted by DanQ

As for a new digital camcorder.... hmmmm. Willing to pitch in for one that uses mini-DVDs instead of Digital Video Cassettes?  

-------
Dan; Apolyton CS

Or, better yet, some tools for editing the video. Oddly enough, they cost almost the same.

Tom P.

[padillah]

Originally posted by Wise Ass

Another option that I just though about was that your camcorder may have AV inputs depending on the model, in which case you should be able to patch it from the projector into the camcorder.

If you tell me the model camcorder, I can probably tell you if it has it or not.

Very good point. But this would require two camcorders: one for the video demonstration and one for crowd reaction.

However, if you happen to HAVE two camcorders (it's not unheard of) that would be a much better way to do it.

It would also eliminate having to whip the POI from screen to person and back. Live events are so hard to document because you never know where the POI will be next.

Tom P.

[Wise Ass]

Originally posted by DanQ
As for a new digital camcorder.... hmmmm. Willing to pitch in for one that uses mini-DVDs instead of Digital Video Cassettes?  


-------
Dan; Apolyton CS

Actually, you're better off, in terms of editing, using the Mini DV rather than DVD if quality is your over all goal. The DVD camcorders compress the video in order to make it fit, and when you edit and render you will again compress it further. So the problem really wasn't the camcorder.

What you did was the best way I know of to do something like that, in terms of recording. However next time, it might not be a bad idea if instead of pointing it at a projection screen, if you had a different flat pannel monitor set up for the camcorder to focus on because the density would help in quality and the screen wont flicker like a CRT.

Another option that I just though about was that your camcorder may have AV inputs depending on the model, in which case you should be able to patch it from the projector into the camcorder.

If you tell me the model camcorder, I can probably tell you if it has it or not.

[Asher]

Trip was cute, though.

[Qwertqwert]

Originally posted by CanuckSoldier
Yes he's a programmer not a PR guy afterall, try and give him a little understanding :P

CS

True but I could have done a better job, it's not really important though. If we're watching the video we're interested in the game, it's not like it's a commercial.

[DanQ]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
Ignore MrPsycho. He didn't go to the convention, so he couldn't have tried what you did. We are not all professionals at this stuff and our work shouldn't be compared to such. Good that you tried at all, down with those looking at the aesthetics instead of the content.

Thank you for your kind words, Blaupanzer.

And at the risk of committing a grammatical no-no by starting a sentence with "and" , thank you as well padillah for the information and further explanation. I hadn't even considered the limitations you mentioned re: digital camcorders that use mini-DVDs instead of Digital Video Cassettes. Hooray for me by going with a less expensive model (about 40% less, in fact).  

---------
Dan; Apolyton CS

[padillah]

Originally posted by MrPsycho
... The images itself flickers a lot and also rotates in color very quickly (from red to green ie. 3:30), which is not helped by the fact that the camera is always shaking.

To clarify, for any others that are going to take up this banner, the color shifting and flickering is nothing that could have been helpped.

Without propper (read: $1000+) software the image was not going to be anymore stable. Due to the video camera and projection TV working almost at complete odds with one another.

I'm not going to go into a dissertation on why it's very hard to video tape a TV image but suffice it to say: It is very hard to video tape a TV image.

Not having the source footage I have no response for the slow down.

Tom P.

[padillah]

Originally posted by DanQ

As for a new digital camcorder.... hmmmm. Willing to pitch in for one that uses mini-DVDs instead of Digital Video Cassettes?  

-------
Dan; Apolyton CS

No! Please don't get one of these. They do not hold a better picture and they assuridly don't hold more video.

They have an arguably worse picture than a tape due to the fact that the MPEG encoding is done in hardware in realtime. With a tape it can take as long as you need to get a decent picture from the given source.

This realtime hardware encoding is part of the reson for the color shift during the playback. The other reason is you were taking a video of a projection image and the source and destination were not genlocked.

None of which is your fault (you don't need to spend $12,000 on a genloc just for us), but which can be overcome in postproduction (given the right tools).

If you use the DVDcam you are stuck with whatever is the picture at the time.

Tom P.

[Blaupanzer]

Ignore MrPsycho. He didn't go to the convention, so he couldn't have tried what you did. We are not all professionals at this stuff and our work shouldn't be compared to such. Good that you tried at all, down with those looking at the aesthetics instead of the content.

[DanQ]

Originally posted by MrPsycho
Well, I'm sorry if you feel my "criticism" was unwarranted, but I think its pretty obvious.

I did not say your criticism was unwarranted -- I only questioned the way (content/tone) it was communicated.

The sound cuts in and out multiple times, and at one point it seems to slow down. The images itself flickers a lot and also rotates in color very quickly (from red to green ie. 3:30), which is not helped by the fact that the camera is always shaking.

Yes, the sound does cut in and out and there is a temporary slowdown that was unexpected, but could not be rectified adequately in post-production. The camera was on a tripod, but yes some of the adjustments were shaky -- couldn't be helped "in the moment". The colour rotation was not evident during filming, but ultimately only temporary. I'm certain the refresh rate of the monitor -- and the fact that the image is being projected otherwise -- also contributed somewhat but time for testing was unfortunately limited. I do accept some responsibility for this.

And I didn't describe the crappiness of the video in my first post out of politeness.

Your first post above didn't come across as "polite". While it would have been nice to see at least one positive comment from you about this work, in your second post above you have described why you felt the production was sub-par. That's the primary improvement I was looking for. That content gave me the opportunity to address specific points, and to (further) learn from them should future opportunities of this nature arise. I add "(further)" because indeed, as you have implied, the points do not come as a surprise to me having seen the clip myself (several times). The only improvement to your post now could come in terms of its tone...

See now how painless the process of submitting constructive criticism here is?  

--------
Dan; Apolyton CS

[DaveV]

Thanks, Soren!

[Soren Johnson]

Originally posted by DaveV

That link gave me a slide show on Half Life 2 playtesting.

fixed... sorrya bout that