Advice for Morgan

[Ned]

Originally posted by Ned


I'll conduct an experiment to test this.

I just ran a couple tests on captured base drones. What I see a somewhat complicated. The number of "captured base" drones depends on base size. For bases of size six or less, there is a single captured-base drone. An additional captured-base grown appears at base size seven. Another one appears at base size 11, and so on until, there are no pacified citizens left. Continuing to increase the base size does not add super drones or subtract from the ability of facilities, police and special product projects to pacify citizens.

I also noticed that some factions, for example Aki, have an extra pacified citizens to begin with, similar to the Drone faction. With such a faction, add one to the above limits. If, for example, Aki starts with four pacified citizens, a captured base will reduce to the number pacified citizens to three if the base size is seven or less. When the base size goes to eight, an additional captured-base drone appears. If the base size goes to 12 , a third captured-base drone appears. A fourth appears at base size 16. At this point all Aki's citizens are drones. There are no pacified citizens.

I suspect that the number of drones does not reduce over time until the base changes to one's own faction at turn +50.

I will post this as a new thread because it appears to include important new information.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Adalbertus
There is more than one drone in a conquered base. Initially, you get five (better: the number of non-drones gets reduced by five), when you hold the base for ten years it's four and so on until the last drone goes after 50 years and the base gets the graphics of your faction.
I wouldn't rate this as b-drones, though.

I'll conduct an experiment to test this.

[Adalbertus]

There is more than one drone in a conquered base. Initially, you get five (better: the number of non-drones gets reduced by five), when you hold the base for ten years it's four and so on until the last drone goes after 50 years and the base gets the graphics of your faction.
I wouldn't rate this as b-drones, though.

[Ned]

I'm sorry, Hydro, but in my experience, b-drones have nothing to do with population or with the years since conquest. The only factors affecting b-drones are 1) world size; 2) efficiency; and 3) number of bases. You also get one extra drone if a base is conquered until its status changes at the +50 year point.

So the purpose for the formula (pop+diff-6) is mysterious. As I said, b-drones have nothing to do with population. If you do not change your efficiency or number of bases, you can add population to the stars and not get one extra b-drone.

[Hydro]

Ned, the Conquest Drones formula is from the Prima Guide, too. This needs to be added into the overall drone formula. Not that it isn't a big number unless the base is large.

[Ned]

Originally posted by Hydro
Ned,

Here are the formulas you’re looking for (from the Prima Strat Guide):

B-drones = (bases x 2) / [(8-diff) x (4 + effic) x worldsize

Where

Bases = number of bases (obviously)
Diff = difficultly level (1 = citizen through transcend = 5)
Effic = social engineering efficiency rating
Worldsize = the size of the world (tiny = 0.6, small = 0.8, large = 1.1, huge = 1.6)

For folks that are interested, there are also formulas for regular drones and drones from conquered bases.

Regular drones = (pop + diff – 6)

Drones for conquered bases = (pop + diff – 6) + SMALLER

For SMALLER, chose the smaller of [(Conquest + 9) / 10] and [(pop + diff – 2) / 4]
Where Conquest is years after you conquered the base subtracted from 50 (eg – when you’ve owned a base 50 years you’ve assimilated it and Conquest = 0)

Hydro, I was unaware that drones from conquered bases were difference from bases one founded.

What I think is that the number of drones depends upon the number of bases you have vs. the efficiency warning level, plus one if he base is conquered. But more than this, for each b-warning, you get one more drone. For example, the first b-warning will result in every base having an extra drone as you continue to add bases until just before you reach the second b-warning. This same process recurs, but by the time you reach the third b-warning, each base will have two extra drones. And so on.

Example: b-warning is 10 bases. As you add the 11th base, base #5 gets an extra drone. (So does base 15, which you haven't founded yet.) On founding base 12, base 4 and 14 get extra drones. On 13, 3 and 13. On 14, base 2 and 12, on base 15, base 11 and 1. On base 16, base 10 and 20. On base 17, base 9 and 19. On base 18, base 8 and 18. On base 19, base 7 and 17. On base 20, base 6 and 16.

I was able to work out a general formula for this, but I can't find my post. The post would've been in the 2000 or 2001 timeframe.

[Ned]

Marione, thanks. What was looking for though was the formula I gave for the pattern of B-drones and a demonstration that you got 1 b-drone per extra base for the 1st b-warning, 2 for each extra base for the second b-warning, and so on. The last to get an extra drone for each b-warning is the homebase, IIRC.

If a base's population is not large enough to accommodate all the b-drones, then the base gets super-drones that are worth two drones.

[Hydro]

Ned,

Here are the formulas you’re looking for (from the Prima Strat Guide):

B-drones = (bases x 2) / [(8-diff) x (4 + effic) x worldsize

Where

Bases = number of bases (obviously)
Diff = difficultly level (1 = citizen through transcend = 5)
Effic = social engineering efficiency rating
Worldsize = the size of the world (tiny = 0.6, small = 0.8, large = 1.1, huge = 1.6)

For folks that are interested, there are also formulas for regular drones and drones from conquered bases.

Regular drones = (pop + diff – 6)

Drones for conquered bases = (pop + diff – 6) + SMALLER

For SMALLER, chose the smaller of [(Conquest + 9) / 10] and [(pop + diff – 2) / 4]
Where Conquest is years after you conquered the base subtracted from 50 (eg – when you’ve owned a base 50 years you’ve assimilated it and Conquest = 0)

[Ned]

Originally posted by MariOne

I'd carefully check this assumption using the datalinks-provided formulas.
If your FIRST citzen was a drone *in* your 9th founded base (or *after* founding 9 bases?), then probably you have triggered your first Bureaucracy Warning with your 7th base, as the first extra-B-drones are NOT usually generated in the new bases which trigger them, but in one of the existing ones.
Thus, you might find out that every base will have an extra-drone by the time you have 14 (or maybe even 12) and not 18.
Anyway, with the HGP, and investing in RecCommons, you'll be able to tackle higher levels of B-Drones. Just expand till you see you can manage them, no point in setting a pre-set limit.

MariOne, do you have the b-drone formula. I know I did some research on the formula a couple of years ago and deduced it. However, I cannot find my posts through the search feature, and seem to have misplaced my original spreadsheat.

[Hydro]

Well, this base was size 4 with and RC and one (4)-1-2 defender. It was about 3 tiles from the Cyborg HQ.

I've never seen a formula for subversion either. Not that it matters much. There isn't much you can do except probe them to see the $$.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Hydro
I would, except that it costs ~700 energy to subvert a size 5 Cyborg base that is in full riot. That is a little too expensive, and bribing a stable base is simply out of the question. I can think of lots of things I'd rather do with that much energy.

All her bases are defended by synthmetal defenders. A nice mix of gatling infantry and rovers should to the job.

This makes me think back to years back when I posed the question "Does anyone know the formula for subversion costs?" No one really knew other than generics about if a creche is present, how many units were garrisoned etc.?

Seems to me much of the game is based upon the civ2 code, and if so one would think that distance from your HQ may additionally play a role.

Has anyone experimented with rush buying a HQ nearest to the intended subverted base? The intention of course would be to rebuild the HQ back at your SSC or whatever once you've completed your cheaper aquisitions (if the cost was truly reduced of course).

[Hydro]

Ooooh. Did I say that? Must be Freudian...

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Hydro
I want to see Aki in chains now!

Yea Baby!

[Hydro]

I would, except that it costs ~700 energy to subvert a size 5 Cyborg base that is in full riot. That is a little too expensive, and bribing a stable base is simply out of the question. I can think of lots of things I'd rather do with that much energy.

All her bases are defended by synthmetal defenders. A nice mix of gatling infantry and rovers should to the job.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Hydro,

You may want to simply aquire the Aki bases via probing actions. Greed is good. Lol....