Who would you join?

[aaglo]

I consider myself as a greenie (I don't own a car, I ride bicycle & public transportation, I cycle again - recycle and I eat often in restaurants). And I consider myself also as a commie. But I'd go for the green side, 'cos Deidre is MUCH cuter than yang.

[Phil_de_geezer]

Some good posts there LordAzreal!

The main problem with Yangs commune (as with any communal society) is that people start to feel as though they're doing more work than everybody else or some people just get lazy. This is where the strong authority comes in to make sure everyone does their fair share of the work. Damned slackers ruining our society!

Just out of interest, did anyone see 'The Experiment' on the BBC not long ago? That programme was fascinating and really highlights the above point.

A lot of people here seem to be basing there choice of faction on how much freedom they think they would get. I can understand this but how much freedom and political choice would you get with Morgan or Lal? What if you ended up as one of the poor people capitalism creates at the expense of the ridiculously wealthy? Or what about Lal's democracy - would it be like the USA's presidential elections where only the rich and famous can afford to run for president? Or Lal's bureaucracy where all the decisions are made by faceless, unelected morons? Just some thoughts - i'm not attacking anyone who voted for the above factions.

[Kassiopeia]

Uni - High Tech cadgets and resources that would beat Q and MacGyver combined.

[Xian]

Beleivers- My worst nightmare, basically America wihtout New York and CAlifornia. Horror
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why people actually like the spartans, the only difference between them and the NAZI party is racism.
Gains- my first choice of the original factions. The most "Free" of any faction, except for green economics
Morgans- people just dont get capitalism, people DO NOT live in towers with offices in crap, 95% of the population will be living no better than Yangs followers, OR MAYBE WORSE. Capitalism = Institutionalized slavery
Hive- I love nihilism, even though i dont really believe it. State Socialism is the worst type of governement though, i would rather live in a mixed market capitalist state than that. Still Yang is awesome, and who knows? Maybe a true socialist revolution could happen, or the state might really "wither away" (yeah right...)
Lal- 3rd choice, the most free of any faction politically, but probably not socially or economically. Likeley to use war propaganda worse than morgan

Of the add-on pack which i have not played...

Angels- Easily the #1 best faction to live in. Hatred of capitalism, authority, and violence. Almost Anarchy. Perfection.
Drones - 2nd choice. Borderline socialism and anti-authority. But anybody that damages the planet is bad, and industrialization above everything else is a REALLY BAD idea. Likely to have living conditions just as bad as the morgans spartans and hive

[Xian]

forgot about the university- might be fun to be a drone, but intellecual elitism would be worse than Britan's. that makes them likely to become extremely racist even if many different races made up the landing pod, like the morgans

Remeber that chances are, youll be one of the general population of the society, not the ruling class (if their is one) so for example if you choose the hive, assume youll be a peasant or subject, morgans a wage-worker etc. I also think that firaxis was trying to use the SPs and videos as propaganda of the faction leader speaking, not necessarily the truth. so the asetic virtues movie might just be yang's excuses, and the people of the morganite faction dont actually have to live as well as the Network backbone video shows

[Securion]

"I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why people actually like the spartans, the only difference between them and the NAZI party is racism."

Exactly. And thats the reason i would choose the Spartans.

[Velociryx]

I'd change my name to Velbudike Morgan...

-=Vel=-

[Clear Skies]

Only because you know the 'creature comforts' that you'd get...

Ugh, I hate Morgan and his bloated capitalism. Give me Dee any day.

[Xian]

Originally posted by Securion
"I DO NOT UNDERSTAND why people actually like the spartans, the only difference between them and the NAZI party is racism."

Exactly. And thats the reason i would choose the Spartans.

Im not sure if that would be plaesant, lol. Then again Hitler had gun restrictions, and the spartans seem to respect the riught to bear arms, so maybe i was wrong any way

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Xian

Im not sure if that would be plaesant, lol. Then again Hitler had gun restrictions, and the spartans seem to respect the riught to bear arms, so maybe i was wrong any way

That, and the fact that the Nazis are hatemongers. The Spartans are simply armed and ready, in case of conflict. They see the realistic view that being prepared for war is the only way to maintain peace. I'd say that the Believers are more hatemongering than the Spartans could ever be. Their ideology is built on attacking, and destroying anything that does not practice their religion as fervently as they do.

[Mr. President]

Originally posted by SMAC Fanatic
Only because you know the 'creature comforts' that you'd get...

Ugh, I hate Morgan and his bloated capitalism. Give me Dee any day.

If you didn't live in a capitalist society, you might not have the computer that you typed those sentences on, or the internet service provider that gets you to Apolyton.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Mr. President

If you didn't live in a capitalist society, you might not have the computer that you typed those sentences on, or the internet service provider that gets you to Apolyton.

True, but that doesn't necessarily mean that people actually NEED those things to achieve happiness.

Though I use a computer a lot, it doesn't make me any happier.

[Archaic]

Then one might ask why you're here? If playing SMAC/X doesn't make you happier in some way, then why do you play it? If using the computer doesn't make you happy, why do you use it? Boil everything down to its lowest denominator and what you are doing is creating happiness for yourself in some way.

Do you *need* material possessions to achieve happiness? Not necessarily. But do material possessions help people achieve either
a) Happiness
or
b) More Happiness
? There's only one possible answer to that one no matter which way you want to look at it.

Remember, there's a *big* difference between contentment and truly being happy.

[Securion]

Oh my god... here we go with the Capitalism vs Communism thingy again. *arming nukes*

[Marid Audran]

Originally posted by Archaic
Then one might ask why you're here? If playing SMAC/X doesn't make you happier in some way, then why do you play it? If using the computer doesn't make you happy, why do you use it? Boil everything down to its lowest denominator and what you are doing is creating happiness for yourself in some way.

Or otherwise, the vulgar version of creating happiness, a distraction from pain and misery. Either way Archaic's logic is impeccable.

Eh, anyway, having just finished Michael Ely's Centauri Dawn I really wanted to comment about the Spartans, which have always been my least favorite SMAC faction, ideologically. My reasons have been amorphous, because on the surface the Spartans didn't seem particularly worse than the Hive or Believers (based on in-game data). They had qualities worth admiring, such as their stolid determination, discipline, and readiness. But at what a severe domestic and moral price, I've just learned.

First of all, Santiago has to be at least slightly mentally deranged, having as scarred and tumultuous an upbringing as she did in Puerto Rico and "New" Los Angelos. All that untreated psychological trauma as a child now manifests itself in her iron will to enact a utilitarian doctrine for "survival." It seems that her agenda isn't so much the homespun supine citizen milita wisdom of the Right to Bear Arms, as it is Survival of the Fittest. Actually, it's more severe than that, more like "The Weak Deserve to Perish." Weak by Spartan standards is a pretty broad spectrum too, based on their merciless military training. They glorify violence, pain, and the aptitude and willingness to endure both and transcend it into a sort of rapture. Frail newborns are slain, as are creche children who are slow in their primary fighters' training. No use for the weak in Spartan culture. They tend to be very haughty as well, shunning the "soft" life led by more Builder-esque factions, and their infrastructure tends to suffer for it, and quality of life.

Continually in the novel I was struck by how myopic Spartan citizens are. At least Santiago, paranoid and feral as she is, has some diplomatic savvy that comes with being a faction leader. But their soldiers and citizens lived and died for Sparta, unhesitantly, little more than calloused killing machines (reading the descriptions of the "Myrmidon" elite Spartan troops made me think, "Wow, so that's where the extra movement point comes from) . Everything is either a threat or a potential threat. There is a mass inability to somehow think outside their own doctrine at the gestalt picture on Chiron. Santiago also has the least legitmiate claim to rule a faction at all; a minor functionary under Yang who smuggled her "Spartan Coalition" onboard the Unity and staged a deadly mutiny.

Sparta strikes me as a very fascistic society, with few privaledges and harsh punishments. On the SE scale I'd deign it: Police State/Simple/Power. Their brutal doctrine of life coupled with their intensive military training makes them especially dangerous (and it becomes all too apparent in Centauri Dawn, they obviously can't spend all their time training and honing their killing techniques on each other before getting restless. Do they ever). In the name of cleansing the "weak" and "unfit for survival" I also see them smoothly justifying all sorts of atrocity use. At least they have a meticulous code of honor about treaties.

I know, I know, Micheal Ely's vision in the books is just one interpretation, among possible many, in our endlessly versitile, beloved game. Still, since he was the multimedia/casting director and heavily involved in the SMAC project, I'd say his work is a pretty good authority on factional behavior, and concurred with what glimpses of Sparta we get in-game with those quotes and SP movies.

By comparison, I think the life of a Believer is positively pleasant vis-a-vis a Spartan.