Yang surrenders for no apparent reason

[Chaos Theory]

Rubin: the +base energy and +tile energy from high economy stack, so your chart should really look like this:

1, +1 energy each base

2, +1 energy each square!

3, +1 energy each square; +2 more energy/base; +1 commerce rating!!

4, +1 energy/sq; +4 more energy/base; +2 commerce!!!

5, +1 energy/sq; +4 more energy/base; +3 commerce!!!!

And, actually, without the bug, +3 economy is trivially better than +2 economy for most of the game.

[Gufnork]

I've lost a game against the AI trying my best. When Miriram starts in the monsoon jungle right next to you and rover rushes you're in trouble. I had no way to counter Miriam with AI bonuses with laser rovers. I had four bases when she swarmed me.

But I agree, Morgan is a great faction if you can survive up to bio-engineering. I don't even feel you need to go that far, considering the insane amount of basesquare energy they apparently get. If they manage to preserve the peace in the world they're unstoppable.

[Lazerus]

Morgan is a good faction if you can survive intact upto bio-engineering, if you're hit before you've got a good supply of crawlers out then its goodbye
The AI military factions normally surrender once they realise they're no longer a military power.

As for Yang surrendering i just lost my first ever game to the AI ...
I've won the 1 city challenge on a large map, wheres its all nice and easy to sit alone until you've got a few dozen clean choppers so i thought lets try it on small, i'll prob start between santi and yang and have a good old fight (was playing as the drones)
Well Yang started off on the monsoon jungle so you can guess what he did to the other AI well Lal actually hadn't been hit yet, ocean between them, and he was the only reason Yang didnt get elected supreme leader. Even though i'd been running demo most of the game Yang kept a treaty with me until just after Lal signed a truce with me (damn pk's instantly declared war on me as soon as we met !!!) and in comes 8 jets wipes out most of my coastal crawlers, then 4 choppers rake my base of units and i watch as 2 transports unload around 10 units which i scream "NOOOOOOOOO" to as they move into my base 4 turns before i completed a PB to remove those big jungle bases where they were sitting.

Come to think of it, thats either the usual treacherous AI or the smartest thing i've ever seen it do ...

[Rubin]

Originally posted by Gufnork
There are a few features with 3+ economy that isn't mentioned on the SE page. Economy 3 gives besides extra commerce rating a +2 energy bonus in each base, in addition to the economy 2 bonus. With economy 4 it's 2 more. So your base squares produce 7 energy each for a FM/Wealth Morganite.

This is VERY interesting, Gufnork. I ran a test with Morgan. Here are the results:

• 1, +1 energy each base
• 2, +1 energy each square!
• 3, +1 energy each square; +3 energy/base; +1 commerce rating!!
• 4, +1 energy/sq; +2 energy/base +5 energy/base; +2 commerce!!!
• 5, +1 energy/sq; +4 energy/base +5 energy/base; +3 commerce!!!!

Is this a bug or just another example of misinformation in SMAC/X? Or have I done something wrong?

[Gufnork]

I just tried Morgan again and I saw that they were stronger than I remembered them. There are a few features with 3+ economy that isn't mentioned on the SE page. Economy 3 gives besides extra commerce rating a +2 energy bonus in each base, in addition to the economy 2 bonus. With economy 4 it's 2 more. So your base squares produce 7 energy each for a FM/Wealth Morganite. No, they're definetly not the worst faction.

[CEO Aaron]

The support is a non-factor, in my opinion. Yes, you'll pay a mineral to support a second unit. The answer: Build infantry probes to garrision your bases, and upgrade them to synthmetal with cash. Now you've got your garrision and your former, to no loss in productivity.

Besides, most times I'll build multiple formers and live with the upkeep, since the value of additional formers far exceeds the cost of paying for their upkeep, and once I've gotten IA, I can crawl minerals to make up the difference.

The advantage of Morgan is that you get those extra FOPs from RT's almost instantly (by 2106, typically), which in turn allows much faster expansion. If I've got 8 bases producing 2 minerals per turn, and you've got 4 bases producing 3 minerals per turn, who's producing more?

Morgan's REAL penalty is the reduced hab limits, capping your population at 11 once you've got Hab complexes built. In order to compensate for that, you NEED to make sure your energy production is going to cover the difference those 3 extra specialists will make. If you're not making it up in trade, you need to go out and conquer yourself some trading partners.

[Jac de Molay]

As for that link, I disagree that Morgan shines in the beginning. Any faction close to Morgan can just gobble him up, RTs or no RTs. They can't support an early army

I think this is biggest problem I have- the support just kills me. In the early game, having even one garrison and one former per base really stifles base productivity, even after rec. tanks are built.

It seems like some ideal conditions need to be present for morgan to thrive - no nearby enemies, and relatively little surrounding fungus. The most success Ive had with faction is on a small island where I relied exclusively on tidal harness and sea crawlers.

Jac.

[AMD4EVER]

The best thing about this game has to be that at the end of every game there is a very interesting story to tell. I've not seen a game yet that didn't have a unique story of diplomacy, war, and achievement attatched to it by the end of the game. I wish there were more games like this!

[AMD4EVER]

Oh, strange. I always assumed because of the color of non-prototyped items that the spartans had skunkworks free. But I guess your right, they only get free prototyping, not a free skunkworks.

[Rubin]

Originally posted by AMD4EVER
Rubin, Spartans get free Skunkworks at all their bases

I ran a test and I haven't yet succeded in getting free Skunkworks for the Spartans. They do get free prototyping, but NOT the retool lifting! AMD4EVER, if you are able to have the Spartans retool for free, please let me know.

Archaic: Yes, I'm certain of this one. At least in my SMACX v2.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by AMD4EVER
Rubin, Spartans get free Skunkworks at all their bases


Anyways, I maintain that Morgan is the worst. During the game that I mentioned in this post, I finally got to the end of the game and I was vastly superior in technology and energy. When the Gaians and Spartans turned on me, it took only three planet busters to bring me to my knees. I couldn't get any momentum behind me after that point. The only thing that saved me was my technological lead. I went into a flat sprint towards trancendance and used all my energy to achieve it before anyone else. A few more turns and I was doomed.

I just find it very difficult to play Morgan and actually try to win decisively. My wins with Morgan always result in me fighting off my foes and taking economic or trancendance victories just moments before Morgan Industries falls. I'll take the Spartans any day over the Morgans.

If one were a believer, one could derive a very religious meaning from that

[Archaic]

Originally posted by Rubin
In addition to free prototyping you are also able to switch production at any time without the retool penalty - provided the switch is kept within the category.

Are you certain of this one? I've never heard of or noticed that feature before, though I'll admit that I've rarely built many if any Skunkworks, since I wanted more flexability in where I would produce my prototypes.

[AMD4EVER]

Rubin, Spartans get free Skunkworks at all their bases


Anyways, I maintain that Morgan is the worst. During the game that I mentioned in this post, I finally got to the end of the game and I was vastly superior in technology and energy. When the Gaians and Spartans turned on me, it took only three planet busters to bring me to my knees. I couldn't get any momentum behind me after that point. The only thing that saved me was my technological lead. I went into a flat sprint towards trancendance and used all my energy to achieve it before anyone else. A few more turns and I was doomed.

I just find it very difficult to play Morgan and actually try to win decisively. My wins with Morgan always result in me fighting off my foes and taking economic or trancendance victories just moments before Morgan Industries falls. I'll take the Spartans any day over the Morgans.

[Rubin]

Originally posted by CEO Aaron
3) Free prototypes? Please. An ability that mimics a fairly useless midgame facility, especially one you only ever need to build one or two of, is hardly anything to write home about.

I find Skunkworks very useable at bases where I need the most flexibility. In addition to free prototyping you are also able to switch production at any time without the retool penalty - provided the switch is kept within the category.

The Spartans cannot build Skunkworks (well, I've never managed to build these with the Spartans). And are thus penalized even further by a possible lack of flexibility.

[Gufnork]

Hmm... I thought I was completly obvious in that I thought Spartans is the faction that has the worst odds of winning. I will just not call a Spartan weak. You said exactly what I said in other words.

As for that link, I disagree that Morgan shines in the beginning. Any faction close to Morgan can just gobble him up, RTs or no RTs. They can't support an early army. Plus, their lack of planned and early FM means their RTs puts them at best on par with other factions expansionwise. And their extra income goes to the RTs. If Morgan is left alone early, however, they can whoop some arse.