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Bad AI is not likely to be fixed

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  • Bad AI is not likely to be fixed

    Why? just check history. And I don't mean just civ's. Games with bad AI never got their AI fixed substantially. MoO series, MoM, SMAC and TW series to name a few, all had bad AI. Fixes and unofficial patches/mods always came out and dealt with the most urgent matters, yet the AI always remains on the same general stupidity level. It's really hard to write a decent AI to games, and it's even harder fixing it and raising its level from "bad" to even "barely good".
    It's history folks, and it's hard to argue with that.

    And it also makes me quite sad. I love Civ and I kinda like this game, despite all the issues.

  • #2
    It depends...
    will they give us a patch that raises AI to human levels?
    Surely not...
    will they fix certain annoying things (like pathfinding of your units alway choosing to trespass city state borders)?
    Yes, I definitely hope so

    I think they will even get the AI to work with religion, but very probably this will be stuff for the next expansion pack

    So, it all depends on your expectations
    If anyone shall despise those who out of faith make love-feasts and invite the brethren in honour of the Lord, and is not willing to accept these invitations because he despises what is done, let him be anathema.
    Canon 11, Council of Gangra (340 AD)

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Tyrathect View Post
      MoO series, MoM, SMAC and TW series to name a few, all had bad AI.
      First off, I agree, all of those had bad AI. None of them were fixed.

      On the other hand, take a look at your list there... all of the greatest strategy games of our time have bad AI. Why would we expect any different? Isn't it possible that bad AI is the best anyone can do?

      BTW, I believe that Civ V's strategic AI (that is, the way AI plays their civ) appears to be a big leap above IV. The tactical AI is terrible, they're incompetent generals, but they do a good job of building economic powerhouse nations.
      What's up, hot dog?

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      • #4
        Yeah, I think some simple things can be fixed such as Proteus's path finding example.
        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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        • #5
          The AI does not protect its settlers

          I released three settlers from the barbarians, all of the same nation!
          But I like this game anyway

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          • #6
            Damn, that's a pretty good haul. Kill one barb and get three settlers.
            Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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            • #7
              It was from 3 barbarrians, but anyway, i returned them to their country

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              • #8
                What? I would have kept them for myself.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                • #9
                  The AI has always been ****ing retarded. It's not nearly the worst aspect of this game.

                  NO WORLDBUILDER HOW DO I GIVE MYSELF CARRIERS?
                  If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                  :(){ :|:& };:

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                  • #10
                    I witnessed some horrific AI in this game. Granted, the setting was pretty challenging, a rocky peninsula in the shape of a horseshoe on which my CS ally held and Siam attacked it. It was idiotic. Siam would camp around and never get a decisive attack, and the CS did not know how to use its units, e.g. instead of parking its crossbowmen in the city it actually got them out in the open sea (not that Siam attacked them, mind you).
                    Betas, please report. They might listen to you.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                      The AI has always been ****ing retarded. It's not nearly the worst aspect of this game.

                      NO WORLDBUILDER HOW DO I GIVE MYSELF CARRIERS?
                      Uh, build them?

                      There are a couple of AI fixes I'd like. The first would be the pathfinding thing mentioned above. Go To and Auto Explore should avoid city-states you aren't friendly with at all costs (if it approaches them and has to go through, it'll stop and ask for orders).

                      The second is the tactical AI. I feel they'll improve this as they get more of an idea how players play and I'm sure modders will help too. I've heard some people complain that they don't recognize choke points. I haven't experienced this, so I don't know. Perhaps that would be priority number one?
                      Beer is proof that God loves you and wants you to be happy - Ben Franklin

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                      • #12
                        The more I think about it, the less optimistic I get. I have no other explanation other than that battle design (1UPH), while more complex and rewarding for human players and their immersion, is too complicated for the AI. I mean, they had a VERY good group of betas, from what I can gather from the credits, and the outcome is AI which sometimes behaves unbelievably badly. It does not understand choke points, it does not understand (still) proper landing and advancing in a tactical formation (unless it has a wide open field). It also seems to have 'blind spots' - e.g. its city will bomb some embarked units, but will spare some (it seems to spare artillery units embarked next to it).

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Louis XXIV View Post
                          Uh, build them?
                          You can't build carriers in 2000 BC
                          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                          :(){ :|:& };:

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                          • #14
                            Why do you want carriers in 2000BC? I assume you want planes to go with them? What's the point of bombing civs back to the stone age if they never left the stone age?

                            Anyway, you'll be able to do all this stuff relatively soon. The map editor is getting released by the end of next week if the rumor mill is to be believed and Tuner should be out around the same time. With the map editor, you can give yourself Carriers to start. With tuner, if you have the save file set a certain way, you can basically use debug as a cheat mode to give you whatever you want.
                            Beer is proof that God loves you and wants you to be happy - Ben Franklin

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                            • #15
                              While the AI will never be as good as a human player, Firaxis certainly has improved their AI in the past and I expect them to improve the AI in this game as well.
                              Jacob's Law "To err is human: to blame it on someone else is even more human."

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