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Early Landing Games Strategy Guide

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  • Fake Boris
    replied
    Originally posted by solo View Post
    Early Landing Strategy Guide Update

    Since this guide was originally posted, we have played seven comparison games. Needless to say, several improvements to early landing strategy have been made during this process.

    The original guide advocated an early Republic strategy, building the minimum number of cities that were needed and only acquiring essential techs. Emphasis was put upon developing the SSC quickly. This system produced the best results in the first three comparison games, and was best exemplified by my own game in EL #3, when a landing of 615 AD was achieved.

    However, even in the earliest games other players were experimenting with a more robust early Monarchy approach, by increasing the number of cities and making use of the additional wonders such as Marco Polo’s Embassy, the Hanging Gardens, and Michaelangelo’s Chapel. The strongest advocate for using MPE was Elephant, and when players realized its superiority in games without hut explorations, it became the first wonder chosen by all players in their games.

    SG(2) was the first advocate of the robust early Monarchy approach, and it was used effectively afterwards by Cliff, and with even more impressive results by Slow Thinker and Zenon. Zenon proved that on many maps, this system was superior to a lean early Republic and has been posting the best results in the last few comparison games. Because of these achievements, I have become an advocate myself of this system, using it to good effect in EL #7. Zenon bettered my landing date in that game too, by borrowing the best features of my own early Republic strategy and blending them with a robust Monarchy start.

    For those wishing to follow the evolution of these strategies, here are the links to the comparison games played so far, with the first 5 being played in this Strategy Forum and with #6 and #7 being played in the Civ II General Forum:

    Game #1

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=77410

    Game #2

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=80550

    Game #3

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=82647

    Game #4

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=84267

    Game #5

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=86183

    Game #6

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=100675

    Game #7

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=104782


    To keep this guide complete and up to date, I thought it might be useful to include the log of my EL #7 game, which is a good example of the robust early Monarchy approach. Below is attached a zip file containing several saves of this game, so readers can actually see how the game progressed.

    I am hoping that my log of this game can be followed by Zenon’s log EL #7 game, as an illustration of the best blend found so far of the EL strategies presented in this guide.

    Finally, all EL players regret the passing of one of our favorite participants, Scouse Gits(2), who enlivened these comparison games with his sportsmanship, insights, and wit. We also regret that Bloody Monk’s health does not allow him to participate as a player, but we still value his comments and insights as he has been a keen observer of the last few games. The term “robust Monarchy” was first coined by Monk, who perhaps better than any of us, is able to express why we all play this game with so much enthusiasm.
    The links to the Comparison Games are broken. Could a mod fix Solo's post?
    In the meanwhile, here are functioning links to the archived threads:

    Game #1

    https://apolyton.net/forum/miscellan...parison-game-1

    Game #2

    https://apolyton.net/forum/miscellan...parison-game-2

    Game #3

    https://apolyton.net/forum/civilizat...parison-game-3

    Game #4

    https://apolyton.net/forum/miscellan...parison-game-4

    Game #5

    https://apolyton.net/forum/miscellan...parison-game-5

    Game #6

    https://apolyton.net/forum/civilizat...parison-game-6

    Game #7

    https://apolyton.net/forum/civilizat...parison-game-7

    Leave a comment:


  • StuporMan
    replied
    Hello Again,

    I have just reached an important milestone in the Supply and Demand Calculator development and have decided to release a beta version for you guys to play with and give me feedback.

    The major change to the calculator is that it can now load data directly from a Civ 2 saved game file. More information about this and the download can be found in the thread linked below.

    Note, this is not a final version yet, so there still may be a few bugs floating around, but I am hoping some of you will be willing to help me track them down and get them fixed. This project has gotten a little too complex for me to debug it by myself at this point. Your help is greatly appreciated.

    Supply and Demand Calculator v2 beta

    Thanks,
    StuporMan

    Leave a comment:


  • StuporMan
    replied
    Thank you solo for your kind words,

    For those of you that are interested in the Supply and Demand calculator here is a list of features:

    1. You can enter the terrain, location, map size, civilization, etc information and the calculator will automatically calculate the supply and demand commodities for the city based on samson's formulas.
    2. Not only does it list the commodities it will supply, but it also shows you the top 3 commodities, the wildcard commodity, and the values for all commodities for ease in commodity manipulation.
    3. You can enter information of up to 255 cities into the calculator and reselect them using a drop down menu.
    4. You only have to enter information about a civlization one time, after that it is stored and will reappear when that civ is selected from the drop down menu.
    5. You can save and load the information you have entered into the calculator.
    6. Data entry has been streamlined so that you can use the tab key to quickly move from one item to another.
    7. Data can either be typed or entered via a up/down arrows for most items.
    8. Cities can be removed via the Remove City button.

    On top of this list of features I have a new version currently in the works that will hopefully incorporate some new features like calculating delivery payments and getting information for the calculator directly from the .sav file.

    Thanks,
    StuporMan

    Leave a comment:


  • solo
    replied
    New Commodity Supply and Demand Calculator Available

    Thanks to StuporMan, a newcomer and expert windows programmer, EL players have a new tool which they can use to quickly calculate commodity supply and demand lists for any city.

    For complete details, please see this thread:

    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=134240

    For those just wanting a copy of this program, simply download and unzip snd1_013.zip which has been attached below.

    While Stuporman's program was being tested, it became apparent that one of Samson's formulas might need a minor adjustment. For the formula calculating the demand for Coal:

    Instead of:

    (Distance Equator+10) X (CitySize+2)/5

    I think Samson really meant:

    (Distance Equator+10) X ((CitySize+2)/5)

    In many cases, we discovered that the extra set of parentheses are required to generate an accurate result.

    (Edited to include the latest version, which includes a manual in pdf format)
    Attached Files
    Last edited by solo; June 23, 2005, 11:41.

    Leave a comment:


  • solo
    replied
    Thanks to ramses II, the original EL Guide has been reformatted nicely and is available for users to download. Since this thread is sticky, I have inserted a copy of his zip file here to make it easily available to anyone that would like their own copy:
    Attached Files
    Last edited by solo; September 14, 2004, 15:51.

    Leave a comment:


  • solo
    replied
    Sorry to be awhile replying to recent posts and belated thanks for the newest compliments.

    Offa,

    I tried CivIII when it came out, but was somewhat disappointed with it. Looks like interest in it is waning, too, due to many of its subsequent problems. I notice a Firaxis boycott getting started up on the Civ III forums, too, due to lack of support for the game.

    Bart119,

    It's always good to see someone new around. I'm not sure I understand some of your questions, but will answer as well as I can here.

    1) I don't know where the CivII programmers went, but do know that its lead designer, Brian Reynolds, is now heading up his own new company Big Huge Games, which has so far produced Rise of Nations, one of the better RTS games around now.

    2) A lot of the more detailed calculations, such as for determining commodity lists, are probably not worth the effort. I think the research here was done more out of curiosity about how they were determined. In my own EL games, I'll just figure out city wildcards in order to better match up supply and demand, since payoffs can differ dramatically when demands are met. (well over 100%).

    3) Sorry, I can not help you here. I have never given much thought to strategies that minimize the number of keystrokes. In general, I believe that conquest games would need more since you would have so many more cities to manage, and that OCC games would certainly need the least per completed game.

    4) Again, I believe OCC games go the quickest because you are only mangaing one city. You may want to check out Paul's guide and give this type of game a try.

    Your own strategy sounds familiar, as that is the way I played the game myself before discovering other ways to play it after joining this CivII site. You are right that discussing other strategies further is better left for a separate thread, so that this one can remain dedicated to EL games and strategy.

    This particular forum used to be much more active and busy in the days before CivIII, but there's almost always some sort of response to new threads when they are posted, so feel free to introduce a new topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bart119
    replied
    Hi folks. This is my first post. I've been playing Civ2 since 1998 or so, but never found other players to compare notes with until now. My strategy probably isn't of much interest (it has never ever failed me, so there was little incentive to improve it), though I'll sketch it below.

    I am really astounded by the amount of effort that has gone into this Early Landing question. Solo's effort really comes across as a scientific exploration (wonder what he (you?) does outside for a living). If in some other field, it would be well worth a Ph.D.

    Question 1: Where are the people who programmed this game? With this amount of effort going into it, I would think that would be of considerable interest to find out.

    Question 2: What the relative payoffs are of all these detailed techniques. Are there some things that get you 50% of the benefit, and the others are down in 0.5% range? Especially regarding trade routes?

    I also realized that the early landing game isn't really my idea of a _game_, as in something fun to do with some measure of thinking you are doing something related to reality (in a game-like way).

    So I thought of questions related to the sort of game that interests me more:

    Question 3: What strategies would win in the fewest actions? As in keystrokes, more or less. Though here too I can see strategies where one analyzes at great length and makes a new action every hour...

    Question 4: What strategies would lead to winning fastest in real time? I'm not actually interested in absolute measures of 37.4 minutes, achieved by a frenzy of stressful activity, but the techniques you would use to get these results, the least "brainwork", perhaps.

    (My strategy is conquest: by loads of small cities, oodles of caravans, building loads of wonders, no city improvements, PDS up to size 8, no trade routes (really!). My tougher opponents require a military strategy sketchable as: use UN for peace to let engineers connect enemies' cities by railroad, and use veteran artillery (10x2x2) in large quantities (they almost always work against veteran riflemen behind city walls), buying cities on the side with spies. It all works fine on Deity, though I usually prefer Emperor. I wimp out with "huts only", because I don't like the distraction of pesky barbarian mosquitoes).

    If all this belongs in some other thread, or has all been discussed before, I would welcome pointers. This seems like the active thread these days.

    Leave a comment:


  • ramses II.
    replied
    Let's call us this thread "the Immortal"
    Solos is one of the few supergrandmasters of CIV2.

    Leave a comment:


  • :) Smiley
    replied
    Man, if only real life government operated with this kind of efficiency!

    Leave a comment:


  • offa
    replied
    Unbelievable!!! Astonishing!!!

    Do you play civ3?

    Leave a comment:


  • duke o' york
    replied
    Once you "wrap around" with Future Techs, though, it is possible to get about 50 techs in a single turn. When you get to FT 122 (?), then the tech counter resets to the very first tech you researched, and you only need 10 beakers, etc. In this way, you get a massive amount of techs for the next couple of turns, but have to be careful as if the FTs reach 256, they start again from FT 1, and you'll lose all the points for those you've discovered until then.

    Leave a comment:


  • solo
    replied
    stealthlover,

    3 per turn came as you first assummed:

    #1 by trades and trigger city
    #2 by colonies and most helpers
    #3 by the SSC and helpers founded before it

    The SSC beakers can only be credited towards one advance, any carryover being lost, which is why I had to give some of its tiles to other overlapping cities to get enough beakers for advance #2 above.

    4 advances are possible, but not as early as this, since another 12 or so cities would be needed. There simply is not enough time.

    Leave a comment:


  • stealthlover
    replied
    Thanks Zenon and thanks Solo. I see now on page 76-77 that demand won't be blocked if the demanding city has three existing routes and this delivery doesn't replace any of them.
    Let me see if I have this right about Solo's three advance turns. On the previous turn you make enough deliveries so that the first city processed will tip it over to discover the first tech. Then you start research for the second one and it is discovered before you get to the SSC? Or wait, maybe that is not necessary? Maybe if you don't get the second one until the SSC is processed you will have enough carryover from that one so that the last cities to be processed can carry over to the third one? Very impressive. I suppose that a four advance turn wouldn't really be practical as it might require more beaker productive cities than you really have time to build if you are going have a really early landing. But couldn't you get four a turn if that was your goal?

    Leave a comment:


  • Zenon
    replied
    Hi Stealthlover,

    thanks for your comment. Solo allready gave the answer (and of cause he knew what had happened in my game without having to see it ). The continuing silk demand appeared when the third delivery from the SSC was made. This third delivery replaced an existing trade route and unblocked the silk demand again. With 3 SSC trade routes in place St. Petersburg stayed that way for a long time. But trade in civ 2 is very sophisticated and there are still some unknowns for me especially about trade route replacement and its implications on demand and supply. Welcome to the club

    Zenon

    Leave a comment:


  • solo
    replied
    stealthlover,

    A commodity will not be blocked unless a new trade route is created in the destination city. Once a city has three routes with another strong one (such as the SSC), other deliveries will not be able to displace the routes of the stronger city and demand will continue.

    Leave a comment:

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