September Civ2 Tournament: ZULU to ALPHA: SPOILER Thread

[MarkG]

main tournament thread

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122267

DO NOT READ THIS THREAD IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO READ ANY SPOILER INFORMATION


































































































you've been warned

[MarkG]

from elephant

The bleak visible starting terrain, the ban on wonders, the large continent, the lack of restarts for KeyCivs, and the low payout from Barb Leaders combine to make this look like a difficult game for spaceship victory. The one compensating positive aspect went unmentioned: there are three freebie techs, Alphabet, Bronze and Ceremonial Burial, which combine to get you either Monarchy or PolyTheism in two techs. There are several 3- and 4-Special SSC/STC sites north, southeast and southwest of the starting site, one or two with Ocean access, if you are interested in One City Challenge. Payout from caravan delivery should be 20% higher due to the small map. Oh, and there are no Mongols...

[rjmatsleepers]

With initial techs, this start is outside the Solo rules for an "Early Landing" game. In any case, without being able to build the science wonders, the standard techniques would need to be modified, so I decided to go for an OCC.

I spent a lot of time wandering about and eventually settled for a waterside property with a nearby river, a wine hill, some pleasant grassland and a couple of forests to give a boost to production.

I have reached AD 1 with a size 12 city and nearly 30 techs - rather better than my normal position in AD 1. This was mainly down to a good set of huts including obtaining the Republic when I was still in despotism (and about 10 turns away from monarch). I also received regular gold donations from my 3 allies. (It seems to be much easier to obtain an alliance when you are rated "inadequate".

It will probably be a bit of a slog from here on in, but so far - so good.

RJM at Sleeper's

[rjmatsleepers]

I've reached AD 1000 and my OCC has arrived at the tap dancing in treacle stage. My city's growth has stalled at 19, and I'm not sure whether the stock exchange I'm constructing will get it going again. I have 39 techs and the discovery rate is now about 7 turns per new tech (without vans). All my commodities are blocked, although it's possible one may unblock when I deliver to Berlin next turn.

I don't play OCC very often, so I've no idea how good or bad this position is. Mind you, I don't suppose there are very many people out there who are experienced at playing OCC without wonders.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Bloody Monk]

@ rj

OCC w/o WoW... when I thought about this I started hearing strains of "Dream the Impossible Dream" from Man of La Mancha.

I think this is a brave endeavor and enjoy reading your results. Good Luck!!

At least the turns will go by quickly.

Monk

[rjmatsleepers]

I'm not sure whether the dream is impossible, but it's still going strong. I've reached 1850 and I'm researching radio which (IIRC) puts me 7 on-path techs away from fusion power. Zimbabwe is size 22 and I could celebrate it to 23 if I wanted to, but I don't think I would gain anything. I have an alliance with every other civ and my rating is so low that they don't bother to ask me to join their wars. They keep asking me to swap my latest discovery for communism, but I politely turn them down; I don't risk asking for anymore gifts in case they give it to me anyway.

I had a great run of building and delivering a freight to Berlin every turn, with half of them demanded. However the discovery of flight seems to have reduced the bonus payments, so that game isn't profitable anymore. I now need to plan the logistics of building spaceship parts - not to mention how I preserve my technological secrets from my charming allies.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Scouse Gits]

RJM - sounds bloody fantastic - I too would have consigned this to the lost causes shelf.

My fairly humdrum game:
at 500BC
9 cities, supreme spotless
25 techs

Sioux have 2 cities, 24 techs
Germans 5 cities 13 techs
Egyptians 4 cities 11 techs

the Egyptians magically offed the Romans (2 cities one on a river) with a single horseman in 2300BC or thereabouts - I have no idea what happened to any other civs.
My hut luck has been good - mainly Nomads along the pole and a couple of tribes - really have not done much so expect this to be another average game - we shall see.

Cheers, Stu

[Bloody Monk]

Holy Cow, rj!! This is great news; congratulations on this progress!!

Do you have enough shields for one-turn Structurals?? If you can pile up enough freights for SS-parts and Apollo to get the ship building over with quickly, then you should "get 'er done."

Monk

[DaveV]

I didn't read the rules thoroughly enough, and played this as a conquest game. I won in 1250 BC, and went to the Hall of Fame to submit and couldn't figure out how to select a conquest win. Oh well, I don't like spaceship games anyway...

[solo]

I was looking forward to another conquest game, but did read the rules, so am playing for an "early" landing. Things do look bleak without the help of wonders.

DaveV,

I would have guessed conquest would have been easier than in the previous game, which was on a larger map, so I'm wondering what happened here to slow you down?

RJM,

Way back when Paul was running OCC comparison games, we did have one without the help of wonders. In that one, only one landing was made before 1900. Paul and I managed to land in the 1930's and many others did not make it to AC until the late 1900's.

The setup for that one was quite similar to what we have here, so your game now has a chance to set the newest unofficial "OCC without wonders" record. Don't blow it!



In my own game, I'm up to 300 AD, having just switched to Democracy. I'm playing with 8 cities instead of one, but my cities are sure missing their mother goose and the golden eggs she produces in the form of trading profits! Usually, I spurn any trade under 200 gold, but in this game, a trade bringing in that amount is cause for celebration. Now my cities' science is just barely managing a tech every 2 turns, but I suffer for lack of income and may have to slow down research to keep from going to debtor's prison. Not too many of my best tricks are working right in this one, too.

So far I've only located 4 AI, too: the Romans, Sioux, Germans and Egyptians, but most of the map has been uncovered, so I'm wondering what gives? I don't remember receiving any messages of any of the AI being destroyed, and the missing ones have run out of space to hide. In any event, with 2 fewer AI, tribute and research has been much bleaker than usual, too.

[rjmatsleepers]

Current status: it's AD 1878, I have 18 vans stockpiled and I'm researching rocketry.

Unfortunately, the dream has suffered a set back. My none settler who has spent the last 3,800 odd years quietly irrigating the land and building communications infrastructure became overwhelmed by the pollution. I rushed an engineer, but too late to prevent population decrease.

Also, now that I have started to stockpile freights, I'm not delivering them, so my rate of tech discovery has dropped, and the AI civs seem to be catching me up. As far as I can tell I have a maximum of 49 shields (its complicated by the pollution). This is not enough to build a freight from scratch, so I have to spend 160 per turn buying barracks and then converting them to freight.

Solo,

I have explored virtualy all the map and I too have only found Germans, Egyptians, Romans and Sioux, all of whom have supported me with money at some time. My favourite was (I think) the Romans who demanded 123 gold to maintain the alliance and then gave me 200 gold as a gift . There's no chance of a pre-1900 landing, but at this stage, I'll settle for any landing I can get.

RJM at Sleeper's

[Scouse Gits]

DaveV - like solo I too misread your kill date at first glance -- WOW! - you killed em faster than I found em!

Stu

[MarkG]

Originally posted by DaveV
I didn't read the rules thoroughly enough, and played this as a conquest game. I won in 1250 BC, and went to the Hall of Fame to submit and couldn't figure out how to select a conquest win. Oh well, I don't like spaceship games anyway...

submission of non-spaceship games is disabled for this tournament

still, fill free to add an entry, putting a note aboyt the victory type in the description

[DaveV]

Originally posted by MarkG
still, fill free to add an entry, putting a note aboyt the victory type in the description

I don't see much point; I didn't follow the (clearly stated) rules of the tournament. No one who follows the rules is going to be able to finish in the BC years, so my illegitimate game would have by far the earliest finish (unless there are other reading-challenged players out there). And how many people would bother to read the note?

At least the name of the tournament makes a lot more sense to me now. A very nice pun, especially in a foreign language, Mark!

[MarkG]

correct, it would screw the results page....

and thanks, noone had commented on the title of the tournament had gone until now