Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Hercules]

Just a thought.

Is there any merit in proposing total cessation of war and all 5 civs going for Space victory?

Would that take too long, even in a no war situation, and would we have a good chance of winning.

Or alternatively going for a diplomatic victory via UN.

[MJW]

This game is at negative fun.

The two weaker teams would resign within five turns, which would prove that we are serious, rather than playing a lost cause. Five turns is chuck-change so this would be almost the same as agreeing to a three-way draw at once; which is what you wanted.

[mzprox]

Well it would be an interesting solution.. the 3 big makes an alliance, kill the two weaker and then we end it as a draw . I wonder how long would it take. (But actually quite pointless, since the outcome is 100%, there is no fun in it)

[MJW]

It's okay for me if you want to end this game in a five-way draw as I feel it's "your civ" at this point.

I think going for 25 turns (if you can go for 10-20) is possible but if we play normally it will take forever and there's no way it would finish in a meaningful way. To such an extent that I would just refuse to move but Hercules and Ozzy disagree.) For this reason I don't like playing "normally".

As I said before we only need Aztec and CFC to agree for a draw because we could then openly work together to kill everyone else. (Making your vote count after you die would be a rule change in the middle of the game--that would override the old rule of the living civs being able to do whatever they want as long as it's unanimous.)

[mzprox]

Everyone who is interested about the fate of this game please check the cfc forum.
I understand that you don't like to end the game with a draw, but unfortunately this game is dying.. maya and uciv quite inactive, and the other 3 teams' turnplayers are losing interest because it's too slow and each has some other reasons as well. I hate that we lost our cap because of that trick, it made our work for ingame victory at least 5 times or more harder and much less fun.
Right now more or less there is a consensus between the team leaders to end this game, but it is each team's decision what should we accept/propose to the others. Just try to get to some common point. If most of you think we should go on and play normally then we will. i only ask then to have a backup turn player as I can go on for the next 10-20 turns, but probably no more.

[MJW]

With Aztec's saying "no" we play for 25 turns. It's very important you nail down the time when the game ends, MZ.

Peace treaty's are unbreakable in this game so it's possible to negotiate with Maya even though it probably won't do anything. (If peace treaty's were breakable in this game negotiating with Maya would not be possible as the threat of them breaking the peace treaty right away would be too much).

EDIT: That might not be a good idea as by asking for peace we are telling them that we are not attacking them. This might cause them to attack us. ...

[mzprox]

We can't figth both the maya and aztec. tbh if maya would send their forces against us we would be in trouble, we would lose some cities before we could stop them. It's a risk we take, because that front already takes too much of our resources.. but they have like 60 cannons and aabout 70-80 other units. Aztec and maya are very far from each other i can't reloacate armies fast, and considering the options I choosed to send most of our units to the aztec front. Those are still barely enough (or not enough, we shall see soon). (And yes peace with maya would be nice, but they have absolute no reason to sign it.)

Playing on normally is an option, but I can speak of all the turn players I think: none of us like that.

[Hercules]

On considerable reflection. I don't support draw option either. I think it will come down to 2 civs.

Nor should we opt for always peace or always war. Those were not start options.

[MJW]

Well UCiv said "no". We need at least Maya and Aztecs to say yes for the game to end in a 3-way draw now. In fact we only need Aztecs as when can then work together to kill UCiv and Maya and then agree to a draw.

So there are two possibilities:

1. 25 turns. We need to find out the exact time when the game ends. End of Turn XXX? This is important.

2. Game draw now (or later if we have to go through the motions of killing of Maya and UCiv).

[mzprox]

If we play on aztec wants either always peace or always war settings. none of those are suitable for us. In always peace we could still win, but what's the point of that when we are no 1 in power by far and for a reason. In always war most likely we would just do the same anyway, but who knows.. maybe uciv would get a new turn player and turn on us where we are undefended...
If we would go on as I suggested, we would probably win by getting the score lead in 25 turns, but it would still be a long time and the reason we would be winning is mostly because of the diplo situation and the fact that we settle on score. Thinking about it, this game could really go for very very long and assuming we hit the aztec hard we wouldn1t be able to do much with cfc.. especially if they befriend uciv.
So I think offering a draw is a good solution, all 3 teams did great during the game till this point. All would have a chance for winning with the right setting (in always peace probably aztec, in always war or normal settings for 25 turns we would be winning and if we just played on till the end then cfc had a good chance.)

[MJW]

If MZ wants a draw I support him as he's been our turnplayer forever. I also like a draw because no-one expect Aztecs are acting like only first place matters and a draw is better than a loss for them anyway (assuming that they are right). But with the other teams not reacting to him this is moot.

If the 5 day rule passes this game will end in around 5 months. 4 months for playing around 5 days and 1 month for pauses. Do-able...

[OzzyKP]

I agree with playing another 25 turns so we have a chance at revenge. I also like readjusting the turn timer so it goes quicker and being stricter with the turn timer. If a team can't play within five days and don't even say anything about it, then we shouldn't wait for them, just keep it moving.

[MJW]

When two teams fight together for a long time--they basically won't backstab eachother ever in DemoGames. When you play a lot of games standards tend to slip but we are only at game three at best... Aztec's should have known about this...

[Hercules]

In my view this is an Inter site diplomacy game. As in all such games diplomacy or lack of it and fielding a team and turn player is all part of the game. In MP games players disappear all the time and replacements are found. Skill and capabilities vary.

If a team can't field a turnplayer or miss a deadline after an acceptable period, so be it. All teams in the game have been reasonably tolerant of short delays but it has now gone beyond that.

So a new rule should be to complete 1 whole turn within 5? days and especially with the proposed new sequencing. With peace and or new alliances that might change of course.

The Aztecs feel it is now 3 civs against them. Well that's the way it works. They could have negotiated differently. We know ? that CFC may not get fully engaged so as to be prepared for a post Aztec situation. Maya want to be a thorn in our side so it is really 3v2.

[mzprox]

well, if the game would go for 25 more turns then I think we'd have quite good chance to get the score lead. right now we are building 5 wonders including our lost national wonders. We have the biggest land and most cities. Aztec is threatened by us and cfc, they can't hold us back. (we are the No 1 power, cfc the third but they have uciv as friend)
Aztec even suggested that we settle the game as us the winners, but I would prefer to have an actual fight and not just abandon this game. I did however propose that the top 3 civ should agree on a draw since I think all 3 of us did great in the game and currently all 3 of us have quite good chances on winning.