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Old dog learns new tricks, or MP warfare in the Nuclear Age

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  • Old dog learns new tricks, or MP warfare in the Nuclear Age

    So that game I had mentioned before, the cold war w/ my buddy, turned hot just a couple of turns after I posted it. Being a long time SP vet + having many MP games under my belt that lasted until medieval times didn't prepare me for this. I had, by chance, discovered his invasion force well off my coast and moved to keep an eye on it. Noting it the transports could not reach my cities in 1 move I left them alone. I also discovered 2 missile subs cruising in my bay, putting 2 cities well within missile range.

    Next turn he unloaded on me with SEVEN tac nukes, a barrage of bombers and missiles, sank most of my fleet in the area, and offloaded a small force on my island city and a much larger force next to my capital. While it looked bad he had made some critical errors which allowed me to destroy both invading armies with minimal losses and also most of his remaining fleet. After that we exchanged some more nukes, he wound up nuking 13 of my cities (out of 28) while I had initially only nuked 2 of his, but 1 turn before peace I nuked 5 of his coastal cities and with my transports within 1 move of his cities burned 4 of them to the ground... including his Wall Street holy city that was generating ~300 /turn. Now his war weariness is so bad he can't afford to DoW me again, but since he's 3 techs ahead (all spaceship techs) he may not have to. My advantage: I have Sid's, Mining Inc., and Civ Jewelers. Mainly the 1st 2. Also just got that event that gives +4 with coal plants. Unfortunately he got the Gorges Dam and Space Elevator, BOTH 1 turn before I completed mine. His remaining cities are also more structurally intact and larger pop.

    What I learned:

    1) Desperate players take desperate actions.
    I figured there was a small chance my friend would attack, but really didn't think he'd go nuclear. In hindsight, there were plenty of clues... the 1st being he built the Manhattan Project. Also for a while he was fretting that he couldn't win this game and since we've been playing since June he had really gotten into it (me too) and really doesn't want to lose. He had made this public knowledge in the chats and emails, and later told me that he came to the conclusion, "What the heck; it's a game, and even if it doesn't work I'll learn something from it." Had I known he was in that frame of mind I would've attacked his fleet before it attacked me, which would've saved some of my cities from nuking but not all. Which brings my 2nd gem o' knowledge...

    2) Keep an array of sub finding units.
    I recall reading some time ago about why you shouldn't upgrade your airships. Now I remember why. Even if I attacked him I missed another 2 subs in another inlet that hit 3 more of my cities that 1st turn. Airships or even more subs in certain locations would have prevented that mishap, or at least let me know where it came from immediately.

    3) Ships can stay in port if the port is safe.
    Initially my ships were out at sea, near the coast for the +10% bonus. Those were the ones showered with missiles before being sunk. After a combination of airstrikes + attack subs/missile cruisers decimated his early fleet, the ships stayed in port and waited for enemy ships to cruise by. Several destroyers and subs were disposed of by fast cruisers/attack subs/airstrikes that then returned to base... where I also kept a healing unit to fix them up quicker.

    4) If 1 nuke is good, 2 is better.
    Even a city protected by bomb shelters can't keep its units healthy enough in the face of multiple nukes in 1 turn. If 1 isn't enough 2 is guaranteed to be. Just make sure you have enough units to kill all his defenders in 1 turn.

    5) Hide your units.
    Suspecting that he had enough ESP pts to see my cities, I pulled my SoD in Athens (a conquered city in the middle of my Greek vassal) out to the countryside at least 3 tiles away from any city, until I could counter-spy him.

    6) National wonder can be destroyed by nukes.
    That was a shock to me. Good thing they can be rebuilt. Academies apparently can be wiped out also as my Academy in my capital died. Ouch!

    What he had better have learned:

    1) Thorough planning.
    He confided that he had planned this assault long ago, but didn't take things into account that could mess them up. The big one was me getting the Internet and then selling my good techs at bargain rates so that the AI would research techs I needed. At the start of his plans I didn't even have Fission or Rocketry, while he had both and nuclear capability. Al Gore got me both of those techs and Flight and I was quickly up to tech parity. He also placed his ships 1 tile too far away to reach my cities and didn't send enough units. They also weren't spread out far enough and 1 ICBM blasted both his invasion force and his navy on the coast, while airlifts reinforced the island city.

    2) Recon, recon, recon.
    Planes and ships out in every direction on all coasts. Don't forget to check vassals since I staged 1/2 of my retaliatory strikes, as well as my own recon into his lands, from 1 of my vassals.

    3) Check your nuke targets beforehand.
    Early on we had 1 explorer each zipping around each others lands to see what we were doing. I noticed that 1 of his cities had built Ironworks & 3 ICBMS. It got slammed by a nuke of my own. However my city of Athens mentioned earlier, with over 35 modern units in it, was left untouched. Btw that SoD is what compromised the bulk of my retaliatory assault.


    That's about it. I think. He's got the upper hand now... if anyone cares I might post future updates and maybe screens.
    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

  • #2
    havent you built SDI yet? good way of countering nukes, 75% interception rate if i remember correctly, wouldve only gotten 3 or 4 instead of nuking 13.

    Comment


    • #3
      Keep up the tales... I've never been in an MP game that has lasted to nukes. It's interesting...
      Keep on Civin'
      RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

      Comment


      • #4
        What style of MP is this? PBEM or straight up simultaneous.
        It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
        RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

        Comment


        • #5
          PBEM.

          Neither of us had built SDI, as neither had Laser tech. I just got it, and he's only had it for a few turns. By the time we can DoW each other again I'll have it and I figure he will too.
          I'm consitently stupid- Japher
          I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh... PBEM... that's a different dynamic than I thought. I was thinking of standard MP, with nukes flying back and forth at the same time

            Even with it being PBEM, it's still interesting to hear about a later MP game... it just conjures up different images.
            Keep on Civin'
            RIP rah, Tony Bogey & Baron O

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't think the 10 turn wait should apply to MP games. Since the turn starts with his moving (he's the host) he could park a huge invasion force right outside my territory and there would be nothing I could do about it.

              Another thing is that when enemy units move past you there should be some kind of notice that you saw it even though you cannot now. I've been abusing that one to track his fleet with subs.

              I was thinking of standard MP, with nukes flying back and forth at the same time


              That would be fun to watch.
              I'm consitently stupid- Japher
              I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

              Comment


              • #8
                The thing that hurt the most is that my top 3 cultural cities were nuked. Although my capital has reached legendary status, the other 2 were about 40 turns away each. Had they been left alone they'd be ~25 turns now... but I lost Globe Theater in 1 and Hermitage in the other, as well as several "cathedrals" in each (both have 6 religions) and now are ~90 turns away.
                I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                Comment


                • #9
                  Too bad, a few Great artists being held in reserve could have been hilarious. While he thinks he's got you beat on the space race, you end up winning a cultural victory while he waiting for 10 turns to end.
                  It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                  RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I might still be able to pull off a cultural or space victory. It won't be easy, but that's what makes this one interesting.
                    I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                    I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Losing to a cultural victory hurts a lot. Especially if you weren't paying attention to it.
                      SO I highly recommend it.
                      It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                      RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That's my best shot. And no, I don't think he's paying attention to it.
                        I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                        I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well crap, I just noticed that in Free Religion all the religions in a city contribute to culture, and I've got shrines in both of those 2 lagging cities. I might've had a cultural victory already had I known that!
                          I'm consitently stupid- Japher
                          I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Theben View Post
                            Well crap, I just noticed that in Free Religion all the religions in a city contribute to culture, and I've got shrines in both of those 2 lagging cities. I might've had a cultural victory already had I known that!
                            Yeah, I'll sometimes just refrain from adopting a state religion (you get all the cultures that way too), or any of the religious civics until free religion is available for that reason.

                            In SP, declining to adopt a state religion can help resolve "delicate" diplo issues (like when a STRONG neighbor's religion is not available to you). So I've known the pagan all-cultures option for quite some time.

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                            • #15
                              I knew it gave the culture if you're pagan, but does it give you the organized religion production bonus in every city if you're Pagan also?

                              Yes, I too go many games as a pagan because of the diplo issue, unless I really need that one extra happy.
                              It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                              RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                              Comment

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