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Renewable Energies for CIV 4 !

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  • Renewable Energies for CIV 4 !

    As a professor on that field, I would like to promote the use of
    Renewable Energies in CIV4. While other technologies are discussed
    quite deeply, the use of renewables in CIV 3 (esp. Solar and Wind) was
    superficial. Power output of renewables is sufficient to supply all
    countries with energy. Renewable energy output is depending on much
    more external parameters than conventional power plants and should be
    considered in the game; as:
    Local ground surface, distance from coast, latitude (wind), local
    climate, temperature, shadowing (solar; some basic ideas have been
    realized in SMAC, nice!)
    Water resource, height of mountains (hydropower)
    The different properties of solar thermal (works good at high ambient
    temperatures) and photovoltaic systems (works good in cold, but sunny
    climates) should be applied yet.
    Therefore renewables are of the biggest options of future energy
    supply (beside fusion I don't know any other) some more attention
    should be paid for them.
    Additionally renewables should also have some impact on the politic
    and social structure:
    Less pollution (less angry people), less dependence from import of
    fossil fuels (trade need for coal as in CIV2-3 gets satisfied
    automatically), if decentralized renewables are used (solar roofs) the
    whole infrastructure is less vulnerable to blackouts and attack on
    power plants (e.g. less loss of population during war). Due to limits
    in resources, conventional energy should get more expensive within
    time, while the costs of use of renewables should get cheaper due to
    technology advances.

    Here are my suggestions for renewable and conventional energy sources
    in CIV3.

    Coal mining: costs for maintenance are increasing by time (longer and
    deeper mines) from to 2 to 4 shields. After 100 years of operation
    resource of coal mine is finished.
    Use of energy generated by coal is generating 100% pollution (25%
    after the invention of air filters). Pollution is causing some amount
    of unhappiness. Earthquake kills some units of population (miners)
    Building costs are 100 shields. Production is 25 per year. Lifetime of
    coalmine is 100 years. Lifetime of coal power plant is 20 to 25 years.
    Recover from recycling: 7.

    Hydropower:
    Only possible near rivers and lakes: mountains 200 % energy
    production, but cost also 100 % more to build. Hills: 100% energy
    production, flat land: 50 % energy production, big rivers are doubling
    energy production. Due to climatic changes production of hydro power
    can vary (e.g. more rainfall: small rivers get to big rivers and
    double energy production, in dry periods big rivers get to small
    rivers, under extreme conditions desertification can make power
    production impossible, earthquakes can cause flooding within the
    surrounding, lower squares (1-2 squares for hydro power plants built
    in hilly regions, 2-4 squares for power plants build in mountain
    regions). Maintenance costs are one shield.
    Building costs are 200 shields. Production is 25. Lifetime is 40
    years. Recover from recycling: 25.

    Wind:
    Works best in coastal areas: 200% energy generation, deserts are
    generally calm (50%). Sole hills and single mountains give 200% power
    production. Valleys are bad (30 %). Regions a bit away from the poles
    produce 150% of power ("roaring forties"). Hills, wood, other wind
    turbines and close obstacles (next square) reduce power (70 %).
    Maintenance is 2, in stormy areas (e.g. mountains 3). Building costs
    are 50 shields, generation is 10. Earthquakes could lead to total
    destruction in 50% of the cases. Floods do not interfere. Wind
    generators bulked directly near town squares may cause some
    unhappiness (noise).
    Lifetime is 15-20 years. Recover from recycling 7 shields.

    SOLAR ENERGY: General:
    Irradiated solar energy onto Earth is gradually increasing from 700
    kWh/sqm per year in Polar Regions to 2200 kWh/sqm per year in regions
    close to the equator – this results in a triple energy production!

    Solar thermal power plants:
    Work best in sunny and warm places (deserts): Energy production is 70%
    from standard near the poles; near equator is 200%. Desert gives an
    additional increase of 20%. Humid areas produce 20% less.
    Construction of plants in woods and valleys decreases power by 25 %
    due to shadowing. Building costs are 200 shields. Power generation is
    25. Maintenance costs are 2 shields. Earthquake and flooding decrease
    power production by 50%. Lifetime is 25 years. Recover from recycling:
    100.

    Photovoltaics:
    Energy production in Polar Regions is 70 % from standard; near equator
    is 200%. Deserts give a 10% minus (heat is decreasing the voltage of
    solar cells). Hills give a 10% plus (cooler, increases voltage).
    Mountains give a 20% in power production. Costs to build in mountain
    areas are double.
    Construction of plants in woods and valleys decreases power by 25 %
    due to shadowing.
    Maintenance costs are 1 shield. Building costs are 320 shields, after
    the invention of Thin Film Semiconductor Technology: 180 shields.
    Power generation is 25. Earthquakes and flooding do not harm (solar
    cells even work in space).
    Lifetime is 30 years. Recover from recycling: 200, for Thin Film
    Technology: 100.

    Nuclear:
    Power generation is 25, works for 35 years, costs 180, maintenance is
    3. Nuclear power causes unhappiness and may cause scandals, especially
    when a university town is close by. Possibility of an accident.
    Vulnerable to military attack and earthquakes (radiation kills in 4
    squares around). Nuclear waste has to be watched by a military unit
    for 12000 time units. One square is sufficient for 10 years of nuclear
    waste. The reactor itself has to be treated as a nuclear waste square
    after the end of its lifetime. Recover from recycling: -40 (reactor
    has to be sealed).

    Biomass:

    Energy from biomass can be generated from three sources:

    1. Agriculture

    1.1 A part of agriculture waste can be transformed into energy: having
    a biogas plant in a city is giving one energy unit for each two
    farming products.

    1.2 Also farming could be directly used to produce energy: Instead of
    food, energy in the harvest: e.g. sugarcane can be distilled to
    alcohol which serves as fuel for cars (1990 60% of the cars in Brazil
    had been running on that) while also the waste could be used, I
    suggest an efficiency of 150% compared to food production.

    2. Waste
    Waste and pollution production in a city with a biomass plant is
    sinking by 50%,
    25% of the original produced waste and pollution can be transformed
    into energy.

    3. Woods
    Waste directly form the woods (dead trees) and indirectly in the city
    (e.g. from carpenters etc.) can be transformed into energy. For each
    two shields produced in a wood, one energy unit is generated.

    I suggest a cost to erect a biomass plant of about 60 shields,
    maintenance of 2, energy production as shown above.

    I tried to model all as realistic as possible, but in order keep it
    playable; we also could use infinite lifetime for the power plants.

    suggestion:
    Use energy completely separate from shields and from trade (similar to
    SMAC).
    Energy did always occur, not only in modern times. In former times
    Firewood
    (to be found in woods, or as a byproduct of agriculture) was
    collected, but hardly traded:
    If no firewood is present, survival in colder climatic zones was
    impossible.
    Energy requirement in different parts of the world should be
    different: cities
    in extreme climates (tropic, polar or alpine)require more energy.
    Energy is required not only for production, but also for survival of
    population and maintenance.

  • #2
    The only problem I see is that we have yet to devise a form of government that would allow much of that stuff to be worked out. Ralph Nader isn't a serious candidate you see...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Capt Dizle
      The only problem I see is that we have yet to devise a form of government that would allow much of that stuff to be worked out. Ralph Nader isn't a serious candidate you see...
      By "we" do you mean humanity as a whole, or american voters?
      Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

      Do It Ourselves

      Comment


      • #4
        Yup... already done around Germany and Austria, I think also Australia. Lots of research is done in many countries, but the issue is often that at the present state it is still not extremely productive (yet it is constantly getting better).
        Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

        Comment


        • #5
          RE are productive

          the largest power plant on the planet is powered by
          renewables (hydro) 14,600 MW, that is more than 10 big nuclear power plants (Itaipu, Brazil)


          In Germany, 17,000 MW of wind power plants are installed, suppling 7% of the total electricity consumption.
          Djarum4D ialah situs bandar agen resmi togel online terbaik terbesar terpercaya yang menyediakan pasaran togel terbaik seperti pasaran Sydney, Singapura, Hongkong dan masih banyak pasaran togel lainnya dengan diskon terbesar serta permainan Live Games yang menarik dengan kualitas streaming terbaik. Daftar dan main togel online di situs Djarum4d



          24% of all gasoline sold in Brazil is bio´ethanole from sugar cane and Brazil starts exporting for half the price than oil


          Iceland runs a 100% on renewables, Norway 99%

          solar cell production reached 1000 MW per year

          nuclear prooved to be more expensive, unsave, vunerable, not only to greenish governemnts, even in the US no nuclear plant was built for the last 20 years.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hey, this is civ, not "energy management". And I don't think that it will be probably included in the game, the renewables energies are a new thing and Firaxis don't use ideas that are so actual. The idea is good, but will depend of so many things: terrain, near terrains, latitude, heat, food, production, disaters, rain... What do the energy should do? Reduce production time, raise happiness, Reduces death by disease?
            "We, civilizations, now know that we are mortals...", Paul Valéry

            Comment


            • #7
              Ever hear of Oil Shale? There's a guy in Utah who claims he can refine it for $16/barrel. Even if he's wrong it's becoming competitive. The neocons are gonna love this: 2.1 trillion barrels of the world's 2.6 trillion barrel reserves are in the US.

              As for maintence, I usually ignore any cost in gold, and in sheilds, it will make sense to build in large cities than small. A city that gets 7 shields with a factory and a maintence of 3 will get a net of 4 shields, while a city that gets 30 shields from a factory will get a net of 27 shields.

              IMHO, pollution penalties are the only thing that makes sense.
              Last edited by realpolitic; March 26, 2005, 19:24.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by realpolitic
                Ever hear of Oil Shale? There's a guy in Utah who claims he can refine it for $16/barrel. Even if he's wrong it's becoming competitive. [/url]
                What does that have to do with renewable energy?
                Rethink Refuse Reduce Reuse

                Do It Ourselves

                Comment


                • #9
                  I agree it exists and is important. My point is not that hydro-electricity is not productive. I was talking more about these new bio-trends. Solar, wind...

                  Solar ia in development, and this 7% for Germany is still... 7%. And they have a whole lot of these big things in the landscape (just as Austria). They get their electricity from nuclear France while condemning nuclear (as Austria with Slovakia). It is still to be developed further, and could be some nice tech as the last one pertaining to energy... but it is still in development and saying that it is all productive still goes surfing with truth: we will really see how hard it hits when research will have been pushed some more. And this will be seen as the future unfolds.

                  I don't believe that Civ would start having 10 different energy centrals... maybe a simple representation of all this.
                  Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Use energy completely separate from shields and from trade (similar to SMAC).

                    Energy did always occur, not only in modern times. In former times
                    Firewood (to be found in woods, or as a byproduct of agriculture) was collected, but hardly traded: .

                    Lets not forget dried dung

                    If no firewood is present, survival in colder climatic zones was
                    impossible.
                    Please explain the survival at the north pole. Maybe in the early eras, but not later

                    Energy requirement in different parts of the world should be
                    different: cities in extreme climates (tropic, polar or alpine)require more energy.
                    Energy is required not only for production, but also for survival of
                    population and maintenance

                    This might make people think before attacking if they cant get the heating oil imported?
                    anti steam and proud of it

                    CDO ....its OCD in alpha order like it should be

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      to Trifna
                      Germany is importing very little electricity from France,
                      grow in RE is 30% per zear

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Platypus Rex


                        If no firewood is present, survival in colder climatic zones was
                        impossible.
                        Please explain the survival at the north pole. Maybe in the early eras, but not later

                        OK lets limit the need for firewood at the Northpole
                        to pre-industry ages.

                        Energy requirement in different parts of the world should be
                        different: cities in extreme climates (tropic, polar or alpine)require more energy.
                        Energy is required not only for production, but also for survival of
                        population and maintenance

                        This might make people think before attacking if they cant get the heating oil imported?
                        Yes.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          And which percentage of German electricity comes from wind? Which % from nuclear?

                          I know they do get nuclear from France... And everything I heard, should it be from pro or anti, is that it is still research, research and more research. And this includes sources in investment communities looking into it.
                          Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Polution is being heavilly revised in Civ IV. They are removing "whack a mole" type and replacing it with something else. Maybe something like every X skulls decreases food, gold, and shield production in that city?

                            Solar Plants, Nuclaear Plants, Hyrdo Plants, and Hoovers Dam are already in Civ III so I assume they'll still be in Civ IV

                            Photovoltaics is probably too new to include at all.

                            Energy should remain abstract and represented by shield bonsuses. This eliminates the need for Biomass entirely; it's abstracted. [shield bonus for whales, the shields from forest, etc.]

                            Good points that the Solar Plants shield bonsus should be depedent upon terriagn type and how close it is to the equator and the Hyro Plant shield bonsus should be bigger on a hill than grassland/plains/desert.

                            As to having to replace plants over time, keep that abstracted under "maintance costs" like everything else. Players would not appreciate having to replace structures frequently.
                            1st C3DG Term 7 Science Advisor 1st C3DG Term 8 Domestic Minister
                            Templar Science Minister
                            AI: I sure wish Jon would hurry up and complete his turn, he's been at it for over 1,200,000 milliseconds now.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Have any civ game included equator? Equator, north, south, west, east, are all human created concepts.
                              "We, civilizations, now know that we are mortals...", Paul Valéry

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