[16:09] <@ACS_MarkG> Let me officially start the Apolyton Civ3 Conquests Release Party! [16:09] <@ACS_MarkG> with us is Bob Taylor from BreakAway Games [16:09] *** Keygen (none@62.103.213.124) 4[joined] #Apolyton. [16:09] <@ACS_MarkG> i'm uncertain on exact showing from other celebrities from Firaxis or Atari [16:10] <@ACS_MarkG> so our official hello to Bob :) (you can speak Bob, everyone else cant right now :D) [16:10] <+bobT_Breakaway> LOL okay, then hello to everyone. [16:10] <+bobT_Breakaway> Hopefully the games will be popping up all over the place very soon [16:10] <@ACS_MarkG> dont flood Bob with questions :) [16:11] Hi bob [16:11] damn [16:11] bobt: want to say its the best game i ever try..u guys did a great job on ocnquest [16:11] Hoover Damn?? [16:11] <+bobT_Breakaway> Hey Joeb, as always great to see you here [16:12] *** PaNaG1 (~Java_user@207.85-200-80.adsl.skynet.be) 4[joined] #Apolyton. [16:12] how many people work in breakaway? [16:12] *ahem* I have arived [16:12] [16:11] Hoover Damn?? <-- Look on the civ3.com developers diary. :) [16:12] *** SirRalph has 4[morphed] into "SR_lurks" [16:12] Hi CG - we're asking questions now. [16:12] <+bobT_Breakaway> Breakaway as a whole company has about 25 on staff. But that varies [16:13] Who worked on AI for Conquests? What changes were made to it that might affect a normal game? [16:13] how big is the manual for conquest will be ? [16:13] 88 pages I think.. [16:13] Hi [16:13] Hi Merepatra [16:13] cool [16:13] hey Mere [16:13] Hi Merepatra [16:13] hi MERE :D [16:14] hi mere! [16:14] hi merepatra [16:14] i read somewhere that in the new conquests there will be improved multiplayer [16:14] is that true? [16:14] hi Merepatra [16:14] Silver - I am not on my computer at the moment [16:14] <+bobT_Breakaway> AI work was a combined effort of Firaxis and Breakaway [16:14] yeah I am interested in the improved MP aspect [16:14] I have the game ;) [16:14] <+bobT_Breakaway> The manual will be your standard expansion size manual :) [16:14] Did Soren juice the AI a bit for standard games? [16:14] 88 pages is damn good..i love reading manual [16:15] is Breakaway Games liable if somebody dies of thirst, starvation, and/or sleep deprivation from extreme computer addiction caused by C3C? ;) [16:15] <+bobT_Breakaway> LOL, no we are not Liable [16:15]

Did Soren juice the AI a bit for standard games?... Soren didn't directly work on Conquests, but the AI was tweaked [16:15] you can always spook the BA people once you're an angry ghost [16:15] I have an outstanding legal case against them regarding carpal tunnel syndrome, though ;) [16:15] lol @ Boots [16:16] you know anything of the AI tweaks?? [16:16] <+bobT_Breakaway> does anyone here have the game yet?? [16:16] <+bobT_Breakaway> at all [16:16] no [16:16] not yet [16:16] I assume it will be a couple days to fill the pipeline...online and retail? [16:16] if we had we wouldn't be here :P [16:16] haha [16:16] good point. [16:16] <+bobT_Breakaway> hehe [16:16] to true [16:16] lol [16:16] <+bobT_Breakaway> true enough [16:16] They told me tomorrow they will have it [16:16] When does it release in Uk [16:16] Will a european version of C3C work on a US PTW instalment? [16:16] so the AI is much improve from version .41 beta? [16:16] <+bobT_Breakaway> UK is targeted for the 14th [16:16] I'll get it Friday. If not, I'll have to move my 2 weeks C3C-vacation [16:17] I have not gotten the full version of 3C3 yet [16:17] <+bobT_Breakaway> The AI has had numerous tweaks [16:17] like what? [16:17] Will there be any future patches planed for C3C? [16:17] will the warlord AI beat the pants off of me now? ;) [16:17] What do you think the most significant change is in this expansion? (only pick 1 I know it's tough :) [16:17] SR_lurks: haha ;-) < I also plan a week civ vacation in return for overhours [16:18] European folks will have to wait for it unless of cource they purchase the US version form the Internet :-D [16:18] there will probably be patches, to fix anything that comes up. But we get to enjoy release first ;) [16:18] will ptw and conquest have seperate lobby for online?? [16:18] like what? ... It now looks and acts like Haley Joe Osment [16:18] yes joeb, there are two different lobbies [16:18] thanks [16:18] Amazon Germany announces it for Nov 7 [16:18] <+bobT_Breakaway> ....·Sirosis· What do you think the most significant change is in this expansion? (only pick 1 I know it's tough :) I think the addition of 9 scenarios spanning most of civilized history [16:18] SR: so does AmazonUK, but we're assuming that is inaccurate. Hopefully it isn't. [16:19] ha [16:19] BobT, they have said that C3C fixes up some of the previous expolits, can you be specific which ones AND can you tell us if the previous versions will be patched to fix them, at some later date? [16:19] hehe [16:19] you guys will love the scenarios ..there so awesome [16:20] <@ACS_MarkG> darn mobile failing me... :) [16:20] Well, it was Nov7 initially, then it was moved to Nov14, and later back to Nov7. The German Civ3 site and Amazon Germany have it at Nov7 now. [16:20] <+bobT_Breakaway> I am not sure about previous versions being patched E_T [16:20] hi gobi! [16:20] hello Ed [16:20] The Beach is here. :) [16:20] <+bobT_Breakaway> that will be a call from Firaxis [16:20] Hi Gobi. [16:20] Hi all. [16:20] hi gobi [16:20] great job on conquest [16:20] <+Merepatra> Hi Gobi [16:20] <+bobT_Breakaway> but many of the game exploits that players have used, are now no longer available [16:20] Hi Gobi, Mere. [16:20] Conquests arrives in Columbia MD tomorrow. I checked the two nearest stores at lunch today. [16:20] <+bobT_Breakaway> Hi Gobi [16:20] Is the infinite railroad expansion bug fixed? [16:20] conquest is great u guys will love it [16:21] You're here on a mobile Mark?? wow, expensive!! [16:21] Are all the scenarios capable of PBEM play and how is it handled if there are more than 8 civs in the scenario? [16:21] ironic how we don't get it first... (Baltimore) [16:21] Is it true that RCP is dead? [16:21] <+bobT_Breakaway> Gobi Bear is the Producer from Breakaway games [16:21] RCP is dead :P [16:21] Can you talk about how the city ring exploit (for communism) was fixed? [16:21] RCP: how did you sove it? :) [16:21] Let's talk about Conquests in MP [16:21] I didn't know communism had city placement exploits.. [16:22] yah i wanna know about mp [16:22] <+Gobi> We have created MP versions of each Conquest [16:22] how is conquest in mp? [16:22] <@ACS_MarkG> Hi and thank you for joining us Gobi! [16:22] Are the makers going to plan to release scenarios on a monthly basis. Like what Maxis did with SimCity 3000 with the Landmarks? [16:22] MP versions? Excellent [16:22] this is getting confusing... [16:22] <+Gobi> They are all SIMILAR to the single-player versions, but there are changes to customize them for MP [16:22] Can you have more then 8 people in a hotseat/PBEM game [16:22] Hey what's the "Bonus CD" that is included with C3C? [16:22] so the mp version scenario for conquest will be loaded, not single play conquest? [16:22] <+Gobi> The 8-person limit is still in place. [16:22] <@ACS_MarkG> also hi and thank you to Merepatra, who worked on QA for C3c [16:22] <+Gobi> So here are some examples of how we changed things for MP [16:23] <+bobT_Breakaway> Merepatra is also on the team at Breakaway :) [16:23] <+Gobi> 1: All MP scenarios have accellerated production on [16:23] <+Gobi> 2: In Napoleonic Europe, England's allies (Netherlands, Portugal, etc.) are just represented by English units [16:23] Because? [16:24] (About AP for MP Conquests) [16:24] <+Gobi> 2: That gets us under 8 civs total in the game [16:24] hmmm. Is it possible to turn off Accel Prod for the MP conquests? Some people really hate it y,know? [16:24] the 8 civ limit [16:24] canu change diffcult level in mp? [16:24] <+Merepatra> It would be possible to edit the conquest in the editor to turn off MP [16:24] <+Merepatra> oops...to turn off AP [16:24] <+Gobi> 3: For Sengoku/Feudal Japan, we even reduced the size of the playing map to make it more appropriate for 8 players [16:25] <+Gobi> 4: Middle Ages was the toughest to adjust for MP. There we combined civs so the Danish/Norwegians are combined, as are the Swedish and Rus [16:25] So you have to play with accel prod in MP? No ability to change that? [16:26] Mere just answered that. [16:26] <+Gobi> 5: It is a easy toggle-button to switch in the editor if you want to change it. [16:26] can u change diffcult level in mp? on conquest? [16:26] Hola Manya! privadeame [16:26] Where it says turn off MP? [16:26] <+Gobi> Another question? [16:27] Woo hoo! [16:27] how different is the modern age? [16:27] hi Jeff [16:27] <+bobT_Breakaway> Hi Jeff [16:27] all I hear is "planes are better" [16:27] Hi jeff [16:27] howdy howdy! [16:27] Hola Jeffe! [16:27] Hi Jeff [16:27] <+Gobi> I think there are several major changes to the Modern Age [16:27] hi JEFF :D [16:27] Jeff :b: [16:27] Wait. Turn off accel prod in MP or turn off MP so have accel prod in single? [16:27] <+Gobi> 1: Ships are faster and a bit more potent [16:28] Ah jef-Jeftety-jef :D [16:28] thats good news IMO [16:28] People involved in the creation of C3C :b: :unworthy: (this includes the betatesters) [16:28] <+Gobi> 2: Planes are a lot more effective, many with lethal bombardment now [16:28] <+bobT_Breakaway> paratroppers [16:28] <@ACS_MarkG> greetings to Jeff Foley of Atari :) [16:28] <+Gobi> 3: There are new anti-aircraft units (first Flak, later mobile SAM) [16:28] alva: the number of people who understand that reference is probably very small, but it was worth saying anyway. ;) [16:29] What is your favorite conquest? [16:29] Hi Jeff :-) [16:29] I know ;) (and I don't care, too funny :D ;) ) [16:29] How many tiles do flak and SAMs cover? [16:29] hi Jeff [16:29] <+Gobi> 4: And there is TOW infantry to provide cheaper infantry when you don't have rubber or other resources [16:29] Explain your reasoning behind the changes to MGLs and the new SGLs (please). [16:29] GOBI...can u change the diffcult level on conquest when playing mp? [16:29] <@ACS_MarkG> not too many questions please... :) [16:29] <+bobT_Breakaway> joeb it defaults to regent [16:29] <+Gobi> You can control the difficulty level that the AI uses in MP [16:30] thanks [16:30] so no way to change diffcult hmm ok [16:30] oh i see [16:30] <+bobT_Breakaway> you can change the AI [16:30] <+Gobi> Yes, let's talk about leaders a bit. [16:31] Thank you. :) [16:31] <+Gobi> There were two main goals with respect to leaders. 1) Make sure that peaceful builders could get leaders too, and [16:31] <+Gobi> 2) Make sure that there were still choices about how to use them once you received them [16:31] A question: What traits and uu is recomended for the Austrians? [16:31] *** Manya has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [16:31] peaceful builders :q: :D [16:31] <+Gobi> Before warmongers got the most leaders and they always used them to rush wonders [16:32] let gobi speak [16:32] <+Merepatra> The Austrian UU is a Hussar [16:32] <+Gobi> So now, you can still get leaders through military action [16:32] Just checking. Would ground units in C3C have the ability to defend againt Aircraft in the field? [16:32] <+Gobi> But we made two changes so you didn't always rush wonders with them [16:32] oh I got a question, is there a scenario to include the Austrians? It was kinda missing in the beta [16:32] <@ACS_MarkG> Hey Jeff, any word from the stores? Any info on where c3c is availiable? [16:33] <+Gobi> We made armies better, and we changed it so military leaders only rush small wonders [16:33] <+Gobi> You can now get Scientific Leaders by being the first to research a tech. [16:33] gobi that a good idea [16:33] can SGL rush GWs? [16:33] <+bobT_Breakaway> yes they can [16:33] <+Gobi> They can rush Great Wonders OR give you a bonus on scientific research for 20 turns [16:34] Gobi - does that mean that there is a % chance of getting a SL when you are the first to an advance for EVERY advance? [16:34] <+Gobi> MrWIA: Yes it does. But the chance is small (about 5%) [16:34] <+Gobi> Unless you are a scientific civ [16:34] <+Gobi> Then it is better [16:35] Cheers. [16:33] <+JeffATARI> @MarkG: The issue is related to the quick turnaround we did in operations. Normally there's four weeks between gold and ship. [16:33] I'm mostly interested in the Age of Discovery Scenario, I was curious about the trading aspects of it, do they work as per normal, or are they tweaked in some way? [16:34] gobi did alot of stuff change from, version .41 beta? [16:34] <+JeffATARI> Obviously we tried to shorten that time as greatly as possible. But it is true that some stores don't have the game yet and may not get it until later this week. [16:34] <+Gobi> The Austrians are in the Napoleonic Europe conquest [16:34] The Civilopedia reflects all these changes, right? [16:34] <+Gobi> Their Hussar UU is featured in that one [16:34] yeah, I was just wondering if there was a pre-packaged scenario which would put the Austrians in the list for a random game [16:34] <+bobT_Breakaway> the civilopedia reflects all changes, and there are several civilopedias to read :) [16:35] Was any improvement made on the trading system? [16:35] I thought 5% was for the Scientific civ, and 3% for everyone else (unless they changed that at the last minute) :) [16:35] what are the traits for the austrians? [16:35] gobi did alot of stuff change from, version .41 beta? [16:35] <+JeffATARI> yeah, you'll spend the first 5-30 minutes just flipping through the civilopedia for a conquest and staring with your mouth open. At least that's what I did... [16:35] <+bobT_Breakaway> Joeb a lot of tweaks [16:35] <+Gobi> Trust Chieftess on those percentages ... I'm doing this from memory [16:36] hehe [16:36] bobt thanks [16:36] I did that with the Jap Scenario Jeff! [16:36] There is no restriction on getting a SGL from a tech? I mean, you could get one with the very first tech you research, right? [16:36] NW: contact and map trading are changed I think [16:36] HUGE :O!! [16:36] umm... [16:36] Would Ground units be able to defend against Air units when on the field in C3C? [16:36] Could you explain the introduction of Plague? Is it random...does it spread...can you combat it...how long does it last? [16:37] <+Gobi> Ah plague ... one of my favorite topics [16:37] lol [16:37] lol [16:37] lol [16:37] <+bobT_Breakaway> CivGeneral_CompLab· Would Ground units be able to defend against Air units when on the field in C3C?.... if they have mobile sam or AA units in their stack [16:37] the more people complained about how bad the plague was the more Gobi increased it [16:37] or so I've heard ;) [16:37] Cool [16:37] thank you. [16:37] <+Gobi> Scenario designers decide (1) roughly when it should start occurring, (2) how many times it should come back during the game, and (3) how strong each occurrence is [16:38] Most important : can we send The Plague to our enemies? :evil: [16:38] <+Gobi> But once a plague start, there is an algorithm in the software for how it spreads. [16:39] <+Gobi> If I recall correctly, it does depend on how large the cities are, whether or not they are walled, and how many resources they are getting from trade [16:39] <+Gobi> I think coastal cities are more likely to contract plague too [16:38] does plague occur in random maps...or just scenarios? [16:38] It looks really scary, too (the plague). [16:38] I modded plagues into CtP2, and the occurances and severity got toned down three times before people were happy :D [16:38] is the plague in the epic game??? :evilgrin: [16:39] Does the aquaduct help to prevent it? [16:39] when units go poof in cities from plague it sucks :P [16:39] Hahahaha sweet!!! I must be sadistic, I am grinning because now the AI shall bomb me with artilery while my cities die of plague! :D [16:39] is already thinking of all the expletives I'll be tossing around concerning plague [16:39] <+Gobi> In the default random map games, plague will not occur [16:40] <+Gobi> But in the Scenarios folder we shipped some variants. One of those is the random map game with plague turned on [16:40] thanks, gobi...that's good news [16:41] will there maybe be a plague ON/OFF option in the game launch menu in the future patch?? ;) [16:42] <+Gobi> I can't answer any questions about future patches. My crystal ball kept breaking down during Conquest development. Still in the shop... [16:43] <+JeffATARI> My crystal ball works! Let me shake it for you... it says "Answer hazy; try again later." [16:40] are there ways of aleviating plague effects? [16:40] or avoiding them? [16:40] <+Gobi> Researching to Sanitation will greatly diminish your chance of getting plague [16:42] Any other ways of reducing the chances of plague? With Aqueducts or Hospitals, for example? [16:41] * Chieftess had a war once with the plague going on... [16:41] can the plague be transported on ships? [16:41] plague makes it challenging [16:42] Come on, Disasters are fun [16:42] <+Merepatra> No Sirosis, plague is city specific [16:42] Citizens dying is always fun [16:42] So citizens dying are the only bad thing about a plaque? [16:42] <+bobT_Breakaway> units die as well [16:42] <+bobT_Breakaway> and you could end up undefended :) [16:43] <+Merepatra> citizens and units dying [16:42] I assume plague will always happen at the most inopportune time and place. [16:43] <+bobT_Breakaway> Of course worldly one :) [16:43] worldy_one: very true [16:43] will units in the city only die or units around the city? [16:44] <+bobT_Breakaway> Units die IN the city) [16:44] ok just making sure [16:43] <+Gobi> As you can see, plague was controversial. Personally I loved it, but that's why it ended up as a variant [16:39] Why can't the Chasqui Scout be 0/0/1 ATARI :) [16:39] Help the lowly Chasqui! [16:39] or even 0/1/1 ATARI :) [16:43] <+Gobi> Let's move on [16:40] gobi what tweaks u did to the AI [16:42] Is the AI realy improved, so that Ghandi will bomb me while I try to be diplomatic? [16:42] so.. are D-Day style invasions more fun now witht he new untis tweaks?? [16:43] gobi what tweaks u did to the AI? [16:44] <+Gobi> AI was tweaked in several areas. Here are the biggest [16:45] <+Gobi> 1: Bombardment AI was made a lot smarter. It takes into account about twice as many factors before deciding which tile to target now. That was a key change for WW2 in the Pacific [16:45] <+Gobi> 2: Naval escort AI is much smarter too. We needed that for both WW2 in the Pacific and Age of Discovery [16:45] <+Gobi> Units (like carriers and transports) can be set to always require escorts before the AI will move them [16:45] I always found Naval AI to be stupid [16:46] <+JeffATARI> it made it very difficult to take out any Caravels in Age of Discovery, with those Frigates following them around [16:46] does the AI know how to use artillery? [16:47] is the AI smarter than in ptw? [16:46] About Flak, is it tile specific or kinda random [16:47] <+Gobi> Flak just defends the tile it is in [16:47] and sams? [16:47] <+Gobi> Yes, same with SAMs [16:47] sams are just faster [16:47] <+Gobi> The Mobile SAMs can be moved quickly and accompany your key stacks [16:47] can flak/sams defend more that once per turn? [16:47] AI artillery should be the most wanted combat change [16:47] * Chieftess saw a civ send an artillery piece out (defended it too) just to bombard a unit. [16:47] Can the Japanese AI make a good game in WWII Pacific vs a human American? [16:48] <+bobT_Breakaway> nye-atwork, yes they can make a very good game of it [16:48] how does the AI feel like in conquest compare to ptw? [16:49] And what about diplomacy, besides the new options, were there any tweaks? [16:50] <+Gobi> The biggest change to diplomacy was in the Locked Alliance system [16:50] <+bobT_Breakaway> locked alliances and locked into war make huge changes to the game play :) [16:50] <+Gobi> It is used in 4 of the 9 Conquests. Will allow lots of interesting scenarios to be created by fans in the future too [16:51] Does the Ally actually help you in times of need? [16:52] so the allies help u out more..and willingto trade with you, etc [16:52] <+Gobi> They won't give away everything they own for nothing [16:52] <+Gobi> But they will always come to your aid if attacked and can never backstab you in any way [16:53] <+bobT_Breakaway> Yes, Allies should not be looked at as freebie techs, you still need to be wise. But they will always be there for you in battle [16:53] Cool [16:53] What if you're not there when they need you? :) [16:54] Gobi> What a diplomat you are ;) [16:54] <+bobT_Breakaway> hehe SnOOpy [16:49] panag wonders when Israel is going to be included , ..... :cute: [16:51] Armies look like a much better investment now [16:51] especially since leaders cant rush great wonders [16:51] <+Merepatra> Yes, armies are much improved [16:51] Think of what a Rider army can do..... [16:51] *shudders* [16:51] I'd rather samurai :) [16:52] <+Gobi> How about Legion armies in Rise of Rome? [16:52] *looks forward to it* :P [16:52] The Samurai is cool [16:52] <+bobT_Breakaway> Legion3's in Rise of Rome in a deadly rampaging army :) [16:53] are there unique leaderheads for the conquests?? [16:53] <+Gobi> We created 8 new leaderheads, giving us 32 total [16:53] <+Gobi> Many of the new civs chosen were selected to fit within our needs for the Conquests [16:53] but no conquest-specific ones?? [16:53] <+Gobi> Using that pool of 32 leaderheads, we were able to come up with leaderheads everywhere. [16:54] <+Gobi> Except the last 3 Conquests use flags instead of leaderheads [16:54] I actually like the flag idea [16:54] In conquest all the civs in the game is well balanced too [16:55] all civs have there pro and cons [16:54] Can we know some of the specific Conquest units in advance? :D [16:55] <+Gobi> Which Conquest are you most curious about Nuclear? [16:56] Gobi : Ehm, WWII and Rise of ROme :D [16:55] Is there a way to mark spots on the map with notes? [16:55] <+bobT_Breakaway> notes? [16:56] yeah, like "Bomb here" [16:56] yes, just a way to mark the map so I remember what I wanted to do. Particularly in PBEM games [16:57] I know a guy who records every single move in his civ game, he records absolutely everything and tries to work out the best way to make his next move, he has this large a4 book full of drawings, notes, of every game, I think one game takes about 1/4 of the book [16:57] * some_leader played a 10-month PBeM game... notes = stickies on the monitor [16:58] Sn00py - that is crazy. I'm not that anal retentive. [16:58] Well look at people who play Chess, they're very fanatical about it, Civ is no different to those type of people really [16:56] Can you summerize the new civs in c3c for those who haven't read all previews? [16:58] <+JeffATARI> I'll take on the "civ summary" question... [16:58] <+JeffATARI> Byzantines with UU Dromon. Hittites, 3-Man Chariot. Incans, Chasqui Scout [16:59] <+JeffATARI> Mayans, Javelin Thrower. Sumerian, Enkidu Warrior [16:59] <+JeffATARI> Netherlands, Swiss Mercenary. Portugal, Carracks. [17:00] Thanks Jeff :-) Aren't 8 the new civs? ;-) 17:01] <+JeffATARI> 7 new civs, officially. Super secret unlockable 8th civ of the Austrians. [17:01] * +JeffATARI borrows a page from console marketing [17:01] Interesting :-) [17:01] <+bobT_Breakaway> shhh, dont tell them about the Austrians, that is secret [17:01] So we kind of have to beat the game playing as the Zulu in Sid mode by diplomacy to unlock the Austrians? :D [17:02] <+JeffATARI> Sure! Ahhhh... call 1-900-Jeff-needs-more-games. Donate to my paypal account, and... oh wait, no... [16:56] Anyone here from Firaxis? [16:57] <+bobT_Breakaway> not yet war_tourist [16:57] <@ACS_MarkG> only Jeff Foley of Atari and BA people :) [16:57] IN pbem will be able to see when we are attacked? [16:57] hi one question please; the bugs in multiplayer have been solved? [16:58] i second that question. does MP crash a lot? [16:58] <+bobT_Breakaway> a lot of effort has been put into the MP portion of the game, and a number of problems were addressed [16:59] What I want to know is whether they've fixed the "FrustratedPoet keeps losing" bug in MP. There seems to be something wrong with my copy... ;) 17:00] <+Merepatra> my copy has a lot of that problem too Frustrated Poet..I've found the solution is to play against Bob ;) [17:00] <+bobT_Breakaway> hey, careful Mere :) [16:59] Q: WIll we be able to see enemy turn in MP?? [17:01] Q: Will we be able to see enemy moves in PBEM?????? [17:04] can anyone answer if we will be able to see enemy turns in PBEM?? [17:04] I second that statusperfect [17:05] <+Merepatra> No status... there were no changes to how PBEM basically works [17:05] or doesn't work :) [17:06] have all the MP bugs been addressed? like the crashing with bombers? [17:06] There was one minor change in PBEMs, but since I'm in the beta, I can't talk about that. :) [17:07] ok... will you be able to se AI moves in MP/Hotseat games even if you aren't player #1?? [17:07] <+Merepatra> have all the MP bugs been addressed? like the crashing with bombers?... yes, it appears that the bomber crashes are all fixed [17:07] cool. was anything done about the lag? [17:08] <+bobT_Breakaway> lag and 00000ssssssssss have been helped out a good deal, but it still comes down to player connections [17:09] bobT_Breakaway: all i know is when i play with 5 people on the net, all with college t1+, we get lag [17:09] when any 3 of us play, no lag [17:09] UX: just jag rush two of the 5 to death, then! ;p [17:09] <+bobT_Breakaway> we have had great success with 8 player games :) [17:09] LAN? [17:09] or net? [17:09] So PBEM has not basically changed in C3C. Why's that? [17:09] <+bobT_Breakaway> net [17:09] cause we've had lan that work well. [17:09] alright, i'll have to see then :) [17:10] ok... is there any changes affecting the viewing of AI/player turns in MP?? [17:10] <+Merepatra> no status [17:11] so no replay???for PBEM??? :((((( [17:11] ;( ....that means you have to do another XP :P ;) [17:11] any hope of an automatic pbem mailer? [17:00] Can we know some of the specific COnquest units in advance? More specifically, from WWII, Age of Sail and Rise of Rome? Please? [17:00] <+Gobi> Ok, let me talk about Rise of Rome a bit as per Nuclear's request [17:00] Sullla alluded to that once I think. [17:01] <+Gobi> In that time period, Persia was about to be attacked by Alexander's army [17:02] <+Gobi> And in a few hundred years Carthage and Rome would start the Punic Wars [17:02] <+Gobi> So we have used locked alliances to force the Greeks and Persians to fight things out. Same with the Romans and Carthaginians [17:03] Interesting Gobi, so The romans start at war with 2 civs? [17:03] <+Gobi> All of the civs still have UUs in Rise of Rome, and you can win as Macedon, Persia or Carthage (as well as Rome of course) [17:01] Hey Jeff, are the beta testers still bound by the NDA? [17:01] <+Merepatra> Yes they are Snoopy...for now and forever :) [17:02] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: I honestly don't know how the NDA was worded. [17:02] So I can't say "The beta C3C has...in it" but I can say "C3C has.... in it" [17:02] <+JeffATARI> I would bet that in letter of the law, yes you are bound. If you want to start talking about cool things from the beta testing, I say go right ahead. [17:02] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py -- exactly. [17:03] <+Merepatra> Yes Snoopy, you are free to talk about the release version, like anyone, but not the beta version [17:03] I see [17:03] never talk about the beta version [17:03] <+JeffATARI> The first rule about the "beta club" is that no one talks about "beta club" [17:04] the fifth rule of "beta club": no shirts, no shoes. [17:04] There's a leak in the "beta club". [17:02] I need to find the Austrians [17:03] What traits are the Ausrtrians? [17:03] <+JeffATARI> Well, I believe since they're not an official civ, so they do not have set traits [17:03] <+Merepatra> We never really set traits for the Austrians as the decision to leave them out was made before Agr and Sea were included [17:04] well i need to know there traits were adding them in a sg and the traits are the one thing we can't agree on [17:04] <+Merepatra> In Napoleonic Europe the Austrians are Mil/Ind but that doesn't mean they would have been that in the epic game as many civs have different traits in some conquests [17:05] were leaning to MIlteristic/Sci and MIl/Exp [17:06] would you agree with are choices? [17:07] <+Gobi> We had planned on making the Austrians Mil and Ind in the epic game. But as Mere said, that was before we rebalanced traits with agricultural and seafaring [17:07] can i qoute you? [17:06] Why don´t you guys tell us poor mortals who won´t get C3C in a long time a bit about Napppy´s wars now? :) [17:11] <+Gobi> Nuclear just asked about Napoleonic Europe [17:11] <+Gobi> No designer diary out for that yet, so I'll answer a few questions on that [17:11] <+bobT_Breakaway> one of my favorite scenarios :) [17:12] <+Gobi> Every country in that one has multiple infantry, cavalry, and artillery units [17:12] <+Gobi> Their stats are customized by country to reflect the militaries of the time [17:12] i just saw a screenshot of the Napoleonic Europe scenario, where 3 players have a ~ next to their name. whats up with that? [17:13] <+Gobi> The French are clearly the strongest, and have Danish allies, but if the other powers team up against them it can get nasty [17:13] <+Gobi> That one is great in MP. Even playing for just 60 to 90 mins gives you a very interesting game of Napoleonic Europe [17:13] <+Merepatra> Napoleonic Europe has one of my favourite new units for graphics, the Grand Battery [17:14] <+Gobi> There is also a lot of naval combat between England and France ... and your ships can enslave enemy ships to capture them [17:06] Did you know there was a russian website, trying to sell everyones civ3 modded work? [17:07] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: generally we try to hunt those down with a cease and desist letter. [17:07] <+JeffATARI> Needless to say, it's hard to police the 'Net. [17:07] cry havoc and let slip the dogs of law. [17:07] yeah [17:14] so what is BreakAway's next project ? [17:14] Just out of curiousity (I've not played an MP civ yet), how many max players are there for MP in Civ? [17:14] do you get units inside when you enslave them? [17:15] or do they disappear, like a culture flip of doom [17:15] <+Gobi> Uber the ~ next to people's names shows who hasn't finished their move yet [17:15] Napoleonic Europe [17:15] <+bobT_Breakaway> you do not get units inside of units [17:15] oh. i dont play non-TBS civ [17:15] <+bobT_Breakaway> you get new units [17:15] <+Merepatra> 8 Snoopy [17:15] cause, well, thats not civ :P [17:15] heathens. [17:15] except for AoD [17:16] Can you play AoD in MP? [17:16] <+bobT_Breakaway> in AoD and in one of the intro scenarios you do have a treasure unit, that is carried inside of a unit :) [17:16] <+Gobi> Absolutely, Sn00py [17:16] <+Merepatra> Yes you can Snoopy, and its one of my favourites in MP [17:16] Great, I will give that a try. [17:16] <+Gobi> I'm hoping to get online and play AOD with some folks later this week! [17:16] Sign me up for that, Gobi...AoD is my favorite conquest! [17:17] Think it will be mine too [17:17] <+Gobi> Can get VERY interesting with treasure units changing hands... [17:17] <+bobT_Breakaway> Will be ready for a new MP game anytime Gobi :) [17:21] <+bobT_Breakaway> I think Gobi will need to play as one of the Americas in AoD, kind of like the old Suede punishment for success :) [17:22] bobT: should make him play as the Incans [17:16] Did you completed any C3C MP game Gobi for the fun? [17:17] <+Gobi> Yes, we were playing Napoleonic Europe for fun in the office last week [17:17] So who won? :-) [17:17] <+Gobi> I was Napoleon and managed to win. Lots of fun! [17:18] <+Gobi> They should have made me use the French version though ;) [17:18] Nice :-) [17:18] <+bobT_Breakaway> hehe [17:18] lol [17:18] <+Merepatra> I'm still playing in German...I figure its my handicap ;) [17:18] hehe [17:18] * +bobT_Breakaway is playing in English finally [17:16] There was a blurb about landmark terrain in the editor. What is this, and how is it used in the scenarios/random maps? [17:17] is interested in sacrificing captured units...is this only for scenarios? [17:19] what about conquistator of spanish? In PTW it was quite bad unit.... [17:19] it comes with astro now iirc [17:19] <+Gobi> Yes, getting the Conquistador sooner should be a big help [17:20] does explorer "upgrade" to Conquistador or vice versa? [17:21] <+Gobi> Conquistador to Explorer [17:21] it would be interesting to do it the other way, so Spain could build explorers without horses [17:20] <+JeffATARI> the Spanish Conquistador is the main reason I won my first emperor attempt at the AoD conquest [17:20] <+JeffATARI> with the restrictions on map trading, the importance of explorers and conquistadors has increased significantly [17:21] but conquistator is good only for pillage [17:21] and is very very expensive unit [17:21] <+JeffATARI> conquistador is great for getting treasures from the western side of the continent to a port on the east coast for easy transpot back to the capital [17:22] <+JeffATARI> without worrying so much about interference from angry indigenous tribes... [17:22] yes but very expensive and weak ... [17:21] are ships useful now? [17:22] yeah, they said ships were more useful earlier [17:22] <+Gobi> I especially like the Byzantine Dromon [17:22] Gobi - don't say that to Xen. :) [17:22] <+Gobi> Yes, I can see Xen and I are archenemies :) [17:22] <+bobT_Breakaway> Dromon is a very cool unit [17:23] I got a nicely timed Golden Age with the dromon by attacking an Egyptian fringe city. I sunk a galley in port. :) [17:22] new resources...not stategic, they are basically tile improvements? [17:23] <+JeffATARI> that desert oasis is nice... good that deserts can be useful before railroads... [17:22] Is there any last minute flaw we should know about? The CD check in European versions of PTW brough lot of headaches to us... [17:23] <+JeffATARI> Keygen: that's the kind of thing that keeps me up at night... what happens when you go from a few hundred testers to a few hundred thousand players? [17:24] <+JeffATARI> But we have put it through our battery of compatibility tests and I think our QA department feels very good about the release. [17:24] <+Gobi> Keygen: We've continued to test and haven't found a flaw yet. But as Jeff says, you never know for sure until it hits the streets [17:25] Can I play as an indian civ in AoD? and if so, can I beat the Europeans? [17:25] <+Merepatra> Yes to both Snoopy [17:25] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: yes, by growing your culture faster than the Europeans can raid your land of its treasures [17:25] <+Merepatra> But its harder to win as an American Civ [17:25] <+bobT_Breakaway> yes SnOOpy [17:25] mere: beat the euros? how bad do they have to suck? [17:25] oh, you mean gay victory. [17:25] <+bobT_Breakaway> it is a challenge but very doable [17:25] :P [17:26] How does one win AoD anyway? whats the victory? [17:26] <+JeffATARI> I've always wondered if a European civ could mess with its rivals by trading the native american civs all sorts of advanced technologies [17:26] :) [17:26] <+Merepatra> The strategy for winning as an American civ is very different for the strategy as an European in AoD, but both are doable and fun [17:26] i thought that would be cool [17:26] lol [17:26] <+JeffATARI> haven't tried that gambit yet [17:26] Get all the gold, and buy it from a stupid civ (french) [17:26] <+JeffATARI> but I certainly traded them all sorts of tech to get the gold I needed [17:27] can the Americans civs invade Europe? [17:27] <+JeffATARI> Spain starts out with major negative cash flow [17:27] See, I bet you were French Jeff [17:27] <+JeffATARI> opd22: they don't have any sort of advanced seafaring [17:27] <+Merepatra> I last won as the Mayans, by a lot of enslaving [17:27] What does the enslaving do exactly? [17:27] (As you can see, I never really got round to beta testing) lol [17:28] <+Merepatra> When you win a battle you enslave the loser, in AoD they are turned into workers [17:27] <+bobT_Breakaway> the Americans can enslave the Euros [17:27] is sacrificing turned on in AoD? [17:28] <+JeffATARI> DaveMcW: yes! [17:28] <+JeffATARI> So you can enslave and drag off the Europeans for your sacrifice [17:28] <+JeffATARI> unfortunately they have this whole gunpowder thing [17:28] lol [17:28] Sacrificing European for culture. I like it :evilgrin: [17:28] is it worth it to sacrifice...or does it merely satiate our bloodlust? [17:28] <+JeffATARI> which makes it significantly more difficult. An easier target are your rival tribes. [17:28] But surely the Europeans can also capture them for slavement? [17:28] <+Merepatra> So you can use them to clear your jungle and put in roads...so you can send them to your capital to the sacrifical altar ;) [17:28] <+Merepatra> No, Europeans don't have the enslavement tech [17:29] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: in fact as Spain I wiped out the Iroquois and used them to build roads to connect my cities. I only felt a little dirty. :) [17:29] <+bobT_Breakaway> No, SnOOpy, only the Americas can enslave [17:29] <+Merepatra> Until they get missionaries, missionaries can enslave, but not sacrifice [17:29] So I can capture some stupid Europeans, make them work the land, then kill them to appease the Gods? [17:29] <+JeffATARI> It's not enslavement, but you can still capture their workers [17:29] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: yes. [17:30] Doesn't the English Man'O'War have the enslavement ability in AoD? [17:30] <+JeffATARI> Yes, as do the privateers. But they don't enslave to create workers, they create duplicates of themselves. [17:30] <+bobT_Breakaway> workers would sink :) [17:30] raft workers! [17:31] Jeff: So, a unit that has "enslavement" will always create the same unit -as defined in the editor, no matter what unit it defeats? [17:32] <+JeffATARI> Spiffor: unga bunga. Me just marketing. Me not play with editor. [17:32] <+Merepatra> Yes Spiffor, thats how it works, the unit is defined in the editor [17:32] ok, thanks MerePatra :) [17:32] <+JeffATARI> but since you can enslave to create workers, I'm pretty sure it's not always the same unit. [17:32] <+JeffATARI> Ah, what Merepatra said. [17:33] <+Gobi> Enslavement: for each unit with this ability, you specify what is created when it wins a combat [17:33] <+Gobi> But you can't make it depend on WHO it defeated [17:33] Thanks Gobi for the clarification. That's what I understood, but it's now all clear :) [17:31] <+Merepatra> The Man-O-War (which is for all Europeans, not just English in AoD) can enslave ships [17:31] and what about man o war? in ptw is very bad because iroclands come very fast [17:31] <+Gobi> Guest - Ironclads are now moved to an optional tech that the AI often fails to research [17:31] <+Gobi> Means you have a longer Age of Sail [17:31] :) [17:31] <+Merepatra> The English Man-O-War UU has enslavement added, when it wins a battle there is a chance of the loser being enslaved and turned into another Man-O-War [17:31] ah that is good [17:31] ;) [17:32] <+Gobi> And Man-O-Wars in the epic game now enslave to create copies of themselves. They are to be feared now [17:26] how are the other scenarios? [17:28] Gobi, is there any difference between the NA english game and the english game on the ROTW CD? [17:28] <+Gobi> Canuck, no there isn't any difference in the English versions. The final US CD and the ROTW one were mastered on the same day [17:29] <+Gobi> I think the electronic UK English manual is a bit different (credits, contact info, etc.) but that is about it [17:29] great, and since the copy protection is the same this will make the patches much less problematic [17:29] <+JeffATARI> indeed [17:30] <+Gobi> Yes, patches should be much easier. And all versions (even French, German, Italian, Spanish) use the same EXE file [17:32] is the ROTW CD the one being sold in Autrialia/NZ and the rest of asia? [17:32] Australia [17:33] <+Merepatra> I think we will have to wait till it gets here to see whether its the US or ROTW version sold in Australia.. usually we get the US version [17:31] How does Firaxis feel if another company made a Civ-type game? (Just like Activision did) [17:31] <+JeffATARI> No one can make a game called "Civilization" without first coming to an arrangement regarding the product license for the intellectual property [17:33] What does sacrificing do? [17:34] <+JeffATARI> How To Sacrifice in 3 Easy Steps [17:34] <+Gobi> Sacrificing builds culture for that city and your civ in general [17:34] <+JeffATARI> Step 1: Bring enemy worker to your city with a sacrificial altar. [17:34] just what I've seen is the ROTW box art at Aussie stores [17:34] <+JeffATARI> Step 2: Sacrifice worker. [17:34] Reminds me of Black and White a bit. I always sacrifice the children. [17:34] <+JeffATARI> Step 3: Enjoy insta-culture boost, possibly expanding borders immediately. [17:34] <+Gobi> Use it when going for a cultural victory as a Mesoamerican civ in either the Mesoamerican or Age of Discovery conquests [17:35] Cool, so thats how you expand your culture to beat the Europeans [17:35] great for getting rid of captured workers [17:35] <+JeffATARI> Okay, okay, so I left out the steps before step 1, where you actually have to progress up the tech tree to get the sacrifice tech [17:35] are there any happiness problems with sacrificing foreign workers? [17:35] <+Merepatra> no Dave [17:35] you need a technology to sacrifice people? [17:35] <+JeffATARI> The moment you build a sacrificial altar in a town you affect happiness in that town, as I recall... [17:35] <+Gobi> The Sacrificial Altar does make the citizens of that city a bit, ... er ... uncomfortable [17:35] <+JeffATARI> at least in Mesopotamia [17:36] <+Merepatra> Yes -1 happiness for a sacrificial altar [17:36] <+JeffATARI> that's why you need nice Ball Courts to give the populace something to distract them. [17:36] how about sacrificing your own workers :) [17:36] <+Merepatra> You can't do that Dave [17:36] <+JeffATARI> I don't believe you can do that, Dave [17:36] <+bobT_Breakaway> evil person Dave :) [17:35] sorry if this has already been asked, but has the scenario loading time been significantly decreased? [17:35] Hey I got a good one, since Indians didn't have horses till the euro's arrived, do the indians only get horse units when you trade the euro's for it? [17:36] <+Gobi> That would be interesting Snoopy ... and then fact that the Iroquois have a mounted UU is a bit weird in that scenario [17:36] <+Gobi> Not sure how we would give AI Europeans any incentive to trade horses to the natives though [17:37] <+JeffATARI> yah. There's already no incentive to trade them stuff as it is once they've given you every piece of gold left in their coffers [17:37] <+JeffATARI> "I'd give you these pretty guns, but you'll need to give me more gold, first." [17:37] You would get horses and plague if it was historic. No chance for the indigenous tribes [17:37] way to add horses is to have them appear on approriate terrain after euros arrive [17:38] Didn't the native Americans get their horses by runaway European horses anyway, instead of trading them? [17:38] Make it a discovery. "Horse Riding" or something, and you can buy it from the Euro's, and when you do, you see horse resources over your map [17:38] yes wild horses in the plains [17:38] <+JeffATARI> of course, nothing says you have to go to North America. You could stick to South America and Africa where there are fewer tribes to compete with [17:39] <+JeffATARI> but there aren't as many cool treasure locations down there, as I recall [17:39] <+bobT_Breakaway> Africa has a few [17:39] <+bobT_Breakaway> :) [17:40] Do the Portuguese tend to go to Africa at first? [17:41] Hm, how long does an average game of AoD last? [17:41] Ello folks. [17:41] Snoop - SP or MP? [17:41] <+bobT_Breakaway> Hi Fried [17:41] mp [17:41] uh... [17:41] ::muse:: [17:41] <+Gobi> Sn00py - probably 3 to 4 hours for an AOD game [17:41] maybe 3.5-4 hours [17:42] How did you manage to balance the civs in Europe? The Portuguese would only have enough room for what 1, 2? cities? [[17:42] Snoop- for MP, AoD needs some "gentlemen's rules" [17:42] although I've seen Portugese driven off the mainland win; [17:43] bounces your capital into a position where you get quick treasure captures [17:43] Snoop -- they start in a GA, have some islands, and I think the Navigation School Small Wonder [17:43] but yeah, if Spain wants, they can drive Portugal into the Atlantic really quickly. [17:43] GA? [17:43] GA=golden age [17:43] <+Gobi> Sn00py: The Portuguese get bonuses from their early start in exploration. Start with a Golden Age from the Dias' Voyage wonder [17:43] oh [17:43] <+Gobi> But they are in a shakey position in Europe [17:43] <+Merepatra> But generally I think the Portuguese is one of the easier civs to win with in SP [17:44] If Jesse were here, he could tell you about that. He knows it well. :) (AoD) [17:44] In SP, Portugal is definitely the civ to be. ;) [17:44] <+bobT_Breakaway> I win most often as the Portuguese, but not in MP :) [17:44] (Beat AoD on Sid with Portugal a week ago) [17:44] bastards drove me off the mainland, so I set up shop in Panama. :P [17:46] Navigation School small wonder? [17:36] how corruption works now? has it been reduced? [17:37] no guest, corruption has been increased :P [17:37] ohhh [17:37] increased? [17:37] more???? [17:37] XD [17:37] it needed to be increased.... [17:38] <+Merepatra> he was joking Guest, corruption hasn't been increased [17:38] <+JeffATARI> There's a colonial capital wonder that the European civs can build on the mainland... [17:38] <+Gobi> Dave is telling stories here ... corruption in general has been reduced [17:38] <+Gobi> The optimal number of cities has been bumped up to lessen it [17:38] <+Gobi> And in some scenarios (like Age of Discovery), we turned it WAY DOWN [17:40] bye thx for answer [17:39] Has the UN been changed at all (other than the tourism boost)? [17:39] <@ACS_MarkG> Jeff, how have the bonus cd "experiment" gone? will you do it again in the future? [17:39] <+JeffATARI> MarkG: The jury is still out, I'm afraid. We did see a significant bump in preorders but it didn't match the levels I was hoping to see. [17:40] <+JeffATARI> That said, a lot of the retailers didn't handle the display and sale of the preorders very well... [17:40] <+JeffATARI> Which may or may not be my fault. So the jury is still out on me. :) [17:40] dont worry Jeff [17:40] yeah I had to tell my retailer what he was selling [17:40] wb [17:40] <+JeffATARI> Long story short: I'd like to continue using presell programs, but we will have to evaluate their efficacy across the industry. [17:41] Jeff, I know the Ebgames in Eugene didn't know anything about the preorder cd [17:41] Jeff - I can confirm that several retailers in my area (San Mateo, CA) were pretty clueless about the preorder CD 17:41] <+JeffATARI> Sirosis: yeah, in general the communication between corporate and store managers wasn't as strong as I had expected. [17:41] <@ACS_MarkG> Jeff, yes especially Amazon didnt handle very good [17:41] <+JeffATARI> That said, the other interesting trend (well, interesting to a publisher trying to figure out whether to use preorders) is... [17:42] Feels just the tiniest bit like a manipulated consumer...the whole "bonus CD" thing...I would have bought the game anyway...now I feel like an "addicted consumer" capable of being conned by "freebies"...oh well, if the shoe fits. [17:42] <+JeffATARI> ...that so many titles out there are using preorders that store managers are having a hard time keeping track of what you get with which product [17:42] yes Futureshop still doesn't list C3C as stocked 17:42] <@ACS_MarkG> I was seeing on our amazon affiliate reports 5 orders for c3c and 2 for the bonus cd :) [17:40] what about performance tweaks beside multiplayer? can we generally expect (a bit) faster turns than with the latest ptw patch? [17:43] can you tell us anything about performance tweaks beside multiplayer?? [17:44] <+Gobi> Gabriel: Performance has been tweaked. The military advisor works a lot better with large quantities of units now. But overall we have added new features [17:45] <+Gobi> So I don't think you will see a big overall change from PTW's turn speed [17:44] thanks gobi [17:45] and what about scenario loading times? [17:45] <+Gobi> The random map game is quick to load in all cases. [17:46] hehe [17:46] <+Gobi> Only the biggest scenarios with lots of preplaced cities take a while to load. Napoleon and WW2 are probably the slowest [17:46] I've noticed a faster initial connection in MP over LAN for what that's worth... [17:46] since there are many nice scenarios for civ3 out there, but even the - not so quick ones - take several minutes to load :( [17:43] what are the chances of more XPs?? [17:45] <+JeffATARI> statusperfect: re: more XP's: let's see how this one does first. We have not announced any further plans. [17:45] <+JeffATARI> But we haven't ruled out the possibility. [17:46] JEFF> I take that as a "Yes we've planned anothe 5 XPs and a platinum edition!" [17:47] <+JeffATARI> statusperfect: lol on 5 XP's and platinum [17:45] Has the UN been changed at all (other than the tourism boost)?? [17:46] <@ACS_MarkG> Jeff, are there any announcable sales figures on civ3 and ptw? [17:46] <+JeffATARI> MarKG: I believe we're over a million units of Civ worldwide. [17:46] * Chieftess saw some sales figures for PTW... but I don't think I can officially tell.. :) [17:46] <+JeffATARI> and over 4.5 million units of Civ for all Civ since Civ 1 [17:46] What were the elements of the "wishlist" that didn't finally make it into the game? [17:46]