Session Start (apolyton.net:#GoW-Roleplay): Mon Jan 27 18:50:12 2003 [18:50] *** Now talking in #GoW-Roleplay. *** Users on #GoW-Roleplay: adaMada @Panzer32_FAC *** End of /NAMES list. *** Mode for channel #GoW-Roleplay is "+" *** Channel #GoW-Roleplay was created at Mon Jan 27 18:43:17 2003 [18:50] *** Join to #GoW-Roleplay completed in 0 seconds. [18:50] Hello :) [18:50] *** E_T (E_T@216-53-175-132.ppp.mpinet.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [18:50] Hi guys [18:50] hello [18:51] Hey E_T :) [18:53] Ok [18:53] Panzer, about your last PM [18:53] *** Gov_Donegeal (donegeal@24-196-141-240.mad.wi.charter.com) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [18:53] adaMada - Yes? [18:54] Hello Gentlemen... [18:54] Hi Donegeal [18:54] *** Gov_Donegeal is now known as Donegeal [18:54] *** Panzer32_FAC is now known as GoW_Panzer32 [18:55] So what is on the agenda for tonight? [18:55] Foreign relations ;) [18:56] mainly this PM: [18:56] Do we understand correctly that you traded Horseback to both Lux and nD? [18:56] adaMada, [18:56] ah... Crap! I shoulda known.... I will try to be on ... my best behavior... [18:56] We need to find out what the Roleplay team wants in return for Writing when you finish it. We are saddened that you are not involved with the tech alliance the other three civs are active in and you are currently the only civ on the continent without Horseback Riding as we traded it to Lux 4 turns ago and to NeuDemo 2 turns ago and both of them declared in a treaty not to trade it to your team. [18:56] *** GhengisDevil (~Java_user@ip68-12-229-156.ok.ok.cox.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [18:56] Ah, Hey Ghengis :) [18:56] From Me [18:56] We get to talk to the big man himself :) [18:56] Hey [18:56] GD... heh [18:57] No, Lucifer outranks me [18:57] On the Agenda: We need to find out what the Roleplay team wants in return for Writing when you finish it. We are saddened that you are not involved with the tech alliance the other three civs are active in and you are currently the only civ on the continent without Horseback Riding as we traded it to Lux 4 turns ago and to NeuDemo 2 turns ago and both of them declared in a treaty not to trade it to your team. [18:57] This is my last PM to the Roleplay team [18:57] Really? Well, there can be more than one big man :) [18:57] Ok [18:57] When I popped into the main chatroom NYE said "speak of the devil" [18:57] I won't copy my last one in here, since it was rather long :) [18:57] So... what about that PM is there to discuss? [18:58] content ;) [18:58] mainly what does Roleplay want for writing [18:58] content? [18:59] Therefore: Roleplay, what would your team want for writing? [18:59] *** mrmitchell (mrmitchell@max1-9.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #GoW-roleplay [18:59] hullo [18:59] hullo [18:59] Well, right now, we'd like to sort out one or two other things before we can discuss a writing deal [18:59] PS- mrmitchell your team just surrendered to the GoW!! j/k [18:59] Actually, we aren't sure, AFAIK [19:00] sort out what? [19:00] Panzer--ya know, that jokes been around so many times its kinda old ;) :) [19:00] :) [19:00] I had forgotten about the surrender thing. [19:00] Roleplay's territory? [19:00] right now, i don't have authorization to make ANY writing trade, and (as I've told Panzer) I'm afraid we'll have to work out a few other things first [19:01] yes... you possibly being replaced? [19:01] *** Aidun (~Aidun@ew-dsl-217-8-111-122.eweka.nl) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [19:01] We need to reestablish a good relationship [19:01] Hello guys [19:01] hullo [19:01] I've informed Panzer that I may be replaced shortly [19:01] By who? [19:01] I'm the assistant diplo to LI [19:01] That is the thing that is on everyone's mind [19:01] so I'm not very helpful here ;) :P [19:02] First things first, i think we had some very bad miscommunication about the territory [19:02] YES! MrMitchell will be an excellent replacement the "surrendering Ambassador" that's what we'll call him [19:02] I understand a lot of feathers got ruffled the wrong way, and I apologize for that -- my fault as much as anyone's [19:02] don't know yet, but Grand Despot Togas is not too happy with him, for some strange reason [19:03] I KNEW I shouldn'tve stepped on his royal pots... ;) [19:03] Very strange, I hope he's not gone mad [19:03] I'm sorry, but everytime I hear "Grand Despot Togas" I think of a hotel. [19:03] anyway, my future is rather unimportant [19:03] :D [19:03] OK- on the subject of territory: how will the GoW know where exactly it is if Roleplay will not supply a map with it marked? [19:04] Panzer - I understand what you're saying [19:04] Why does everything you type have a 1 in front of it? [19:04] good [19:04] i was wondering that too [19:04] As I told you, it was put to a vote, and .jpg trades were decided to be against the spirit of the game [19:04] There is a mojority against trading maps [19:04] bleh. [19:04] at this stage [19:04] When we're so close to mapmaking [19:05] having said that, we've given you the approximate size of the area we've claimed... [19:05] 2I agree with no map trades as it shouldn't be technically feasible. [19:05] .jpg? what is that? this simple Spanish farmer knows only of his fields, his city, and his Squid. [19:05] That was put to a vote, to trade a JPG map, but was soundly voted down, but not unamimous [19:05] Panzer: Who's got ones in front of their messages? Is it me? [19:05] 3ND claims the territory your talking about is much more than what youv'e told us it was [19:05] ok... so I propose giving us the map of the territory with no territory (black) and your capitol city marked on it [19:05] adaMada: yes [19:06] it looks like [19:06] 1This [19:06] Really? Sorry :- [19:06] 9That's okay [19:06] Computer's acting weird -- using a different chat program also [19:06] i dont see it [19:06] 3I've gotten used to it [19:06] I just got a 1 and a 9 [19:06] but Ghengis, you just said "3I've gotten used to it" [19:06] it might be on your end ;) :) [19:07] Re: our territory and what ND's apparently told you [19:07] 4I'm putting random numbers at the beginning so that adaMada feels comfortable. [19:07] ask Ghengis about ND [19:07] Ghengis -- Thanks ;) :D [19:07] 6No problem [19:07] * Donegeal slaps GhengisDevil around a bit with a large trout [19:07] 7984Ouch 37509043 [19:07] :) [19:07] the problem is that we would trade the maps, IF we had mapmaking. [19:07] I'm going to act as DM again [19:08] i agree with ET [19:08] I'm with E_T [19:08] I WISH we had mapmaking [19:08] It'd make the issue simpler [19:08] we still need to get Writing [19:08] gotta go, brb [19:08] *** Signoff: mrmitchell (Quit: ) [19:08] What we are trying to do is map the coast so that we can see where potential islands are located [19:08] you mean its ok for minimaps and not for maps? Make up your minds! [19:09] even if you had mapmaking, and we traded maps ingame, we still wouldn't have your territory marked! [19:09] We honestly don't care where your cities are. [19:09] quiet, GD!! [19:10] The Mini map trade was to help us join up sooner and start teh trading/diplomacy sooner [19:10] Ghengis -- I understand what you mean [19:10] 666That's it, I'm warming up the Brimstone. [19:10] the Minimaps did not reveal that much info compaired to full blown maps [19:10] I though that you guys were going to be all or nothing with the RP stuff.... [19:11] I guess its just when its convienent for you that is... [19:11] If we don't know where your territory is, how do we know where we can move?? [19:11] *** mrmitchell (mrmitchell@max2-36.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [19:11] hullo again [19:11] Panzer -- we understand the issue. We've given you an approximate size of our location, and we were hoping you could find a way around -- with our guidance, of course [19:11] What guidance? "Stay away"? [19:12] THe mini-map trades was, as some of us RP'ed, "Given to us via the spirits of both of our Ancestors" [19:12] adaMada: If you could give us specific instructions on how to move boardering with your territory, but not inside, it would be good [19:12] We can describe the size and location of the area we've marked as our own, and if you do start to wonder in, we'd be happy to give you a friendly message :) [19:14] So you blantently use RP to cover up times when it would best suit your team to NOT rp? [19:14] Donegeal -- we use RP except when we're lazy :) [19:15] adaMada - instructions like from this mountain go W,NW,E,S,SE, etc [19:16] Bush should send Donegeal to Iraq as a weapons inspector, we'd be at war in no time. :) [19:16] *** Signoff: GoW_Panzer32 (Quit: Leaving) [19:16] basically, the instructions that you would like are " to please head back north", that's simple isn't it [19:16] *** GoW_Panzer32 (~Java_user@24.150.253.142) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [19:16] what happened?? [19:16] ET hit you with a rock [19:16] basically, the instructions that you would like are " to please head back north", that's simple isn't it [19:16] Ghengis: no lieing! :P [19:17] :P [19:17] :) [19:17] He was unconscious, he'l never know different. [19:17] Panzer - I'll dsicuss it with Togas [19:17] :P [19:17] ok, thanks adaMada [19:17] But I obviously can't promise much (if anything) [19:18] The odd thing is that we really don't need to compete for exploration or even settlement [19:18] right now it seems like Roleplay is taking up the whole south of the continent, so I would just like to be sure you aren't [19:18] So basically there is absolutely no trade for Writing? [19:18] Panzer -- We claimed a very small area for that reason. Right now, we're starting small [19:18] Personally, I think that Togas is going a bit overboard, but I'm not the Grand Despot either [19:18] Ghengis -- Right now, I've no authorization for one [19:19] Okay, that's all I needed to know [19:19] do you think there might be? (anyone?) [19:19] ahh, to be Grand Despot for a day [19:19] :P :) [19:19] we need to drag Togas in here... :p [19:20] To be honest, I odn't understand why this is even an issue, however [19:20] I think that would be an act of war [19:20] Just to let you guys know, our area isn't that Hospitable [19:20] We're only interested in the southern side of the continent [19:20] Ada, here's why we're not happy: [19:20] eh, ghengis, you just want to get out in the battlefields. it's your team's name, for pete's sake. :P :) [19:20] You'll notice we've not come nearly so far to the north [19:20] As far as we're concerned, we could practically split the continent and agree to trade maps [19:20] We proposed a tech alliance and every civ researched a tech [19:21] Togas agree to research Writing. [19:21] Every civ EXCEPT ROLEPLAY followed through with the techs. [19:21] Yes, we have only come as far north to make contact, then have removed ourselves back to our homes [19:22] Territory is less of an issue than tech for the GoW [19:22] We are still researching Writing [19:22] brb (133k) [19:22] But you already declared you wouldn't trade it to us. [19:22] you can not trade someting that you don't have [19:22] Yeah... you went north, made contact... saw it was croweded and decided to claim all that open land in the south. Figuring that there wert any goodie huts left... [19:23] but you said you wouldn't trade when you get it! [19:23] Togas might have declaired that, but he's not the whole team, either... [19:23] Togas is angry right now [19:23] and AFAIK, we are still debaiting this [19:23] He is refusing to trade point blank [19:23] Others disagree [19:23] You would have had Horseback Riding 5 turns ago if you hadn't refused to trade Writing when you got it. [19:23] Get him unangry! [19:24] Right now, that's why I think we should resolve our other conflicts first [19:24] yeah, what GD said [19:24] what other conflicts? [19:24] but teh thing that we need is a showing of faith and removing yourself back up north [19:24] For us, this is the main one right now [19:24] for you, we need a showing of faith and agree to trade writing with us [19:25] Togas has no reason to be angry. He said one thing, and then did the opposite. We would have gone back if Togas had not broken his word before we got there [19:25] You want a show of "faith"? Give us a Jpg of the south and we'll leave! [19:25] back [19:25] make some kakamayme story about your "gods" and be done with it! [19:25] , what did i miss [19:25] The territory and maps are a completely different issue than the techs. [19:25] Donegeal -- we'll happily trade maps with you as soon as it's possible [19:26] just more bickering? sounds ok then :) :P :) [19:26] Ghengis -- I wish they were, and I'd really like em to be, but I think the resolutions'll have to go hand in hand [19:26] What? No one over there has a Screen capture? [19:26] the thing is, that the people who are semi-pro GoW are not likeing this and won't change their minds until you show that your headed back north [19:26] Since both teams are angry at the other [19:26] Maps aren't technically an option untill Mapmaking [19:26] thats a while away [19:26] Ghengis - look, here's the big issue [19:26] And Panzer and all :) [19:26] E_T that is a bunch of smoke. [19:27] is it really?? [19:27] We have NO reason to be in the north [19:27] none whatsoever [19:27] You've no reason to want to be in the south [19:27] yep... cause you know its full! [19:27] any cities there'd have too much curruption [19:27] We'd both like to trade maps [19:27] true [19:27] I agree with ada [19:28] We'll both trade maps as soon as we've got mapmaking [19:28] :b: [19:28] so lets get a deal to trade maps when available, coupled with Horseback riding for writing deal, ok? [19:28] Personally, I don't care one way or teh other, just as long as we keep up good relations with everybody. THAT"S ALL I CARE ABOUT [19:28] In the meanwhile, is there any reason we can't agree not to compete with each other? [19:28] Everybody stop for a minute. [19:28] we don't NEED to be fighting for exploration -- we can cooperate late [19:28] ok [19:28] Ghengis -- Ok :) [19:28] Ada, you said not to compete with one another? [19:29] Yes/no? [19:29] we even had a few of our people set up maps for us to trade, but the vote was 83.3% against it [19:30] he did say that... [19:30] MAPS ARE NOPT AN ISSUE!!!!! Ada, you said not to compete with one another? Yes/no? [19:30] * mrmitchell smacks adaMada upside the head with Ghengis's question [19:30] answer, boy! :P :) [19:30] lol [19:30] cool [19:30] *** GhengisDevil has left #GoW-Roleplay [19:30] I dont understand what he said either :P [19:30] Ghengis: [19:31] grr, I was afk [19:31] I'll relay the message [19:31] *** Ninotsback (~dninot@modemcable087.41-201-24.mtl.mc.videotron.ca) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [19:31] yi yiiii] [19:31] oops, massive typo [19:31] :P [19:31] hello Ninot's Back. [19:32] What I meant was that you guys are clearly trying to make a large bid in exploration [19:32] i am, am I? [19:32] ...so, do you have any problems? I mean, you are a back afterall. [19:32] We've no reason to double up in that area [19:33] We don't need information on the north right now, and I personally can't understand why you guys'd need information to the South [19:33] GF doesn't want to come back [19:33] Tell GF I said Sorry, and that I was afk [19:33] tell him I apologized, and I'm not trying to cause some sort of incident, even if I'm about to be fired :) [19:34] told... [19:34] We had 2 explores that went as far north that they wanted to go, and they are now back down here, where they belong [19:34] We don't want to conquer anyone. We're just a bunch of simple roleplaying folks. [19:35] :) [19:35] nod [19:35] sorry, guys... this kind of went downhill in a hurry :-/ [19:35] *** GhengisDevil (~Java_user@ip68-12-229-156.ok.ok.cox.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [19:36] welcome Ghengis [19:36] Ghengis -- sorry for not answering, I was afk [19:36] Ghengis was in #roleplay-gow :P :) [19:36] thanks for coming back, GF [19:36] I jsut want to clarify what the issues are and what each teams position is. [19:36] Yes [19:36] I agree [19:36] ghengis--not such a bad idea [19:37] Issue @1 [19:37] Right now there is a very good chance of war and I don't that it is necessary. [19:37] so do we [19:37] Ghengis -- I agree, and I want to reassure you that WE have no intention of starting a war [19:37] It's just counter productive :) [19:37] we don't want to either [19:37] Correct [19:37] It lets Lux and ND pull ahead while we fight [19:37] Our concern is simply that we wamt an agreement for Writing when you have finished it. [19:37] and that's teh sentiment of the whole team [19:37] Even Togas :p [19:37] war??? no. not at all. [19:38] Ghengis: I understand [19:38] us RP peaceniks dont want war. :) [19:38] We are wasting resources because your team is refusing to negotiate with us. And that is making our teammembers very frustrated. [19:39] The biggest issue for us is trust. Through these series of miscommunications, several members of our team believe that diplomacy between our teams has broken down. The warrior happens to make some members especially nervous [19:39] I understand, and we are frustrated with this lack of progress too [19:39] There Is NO COMMUNICATION between our teams. [19:39] We can move the warrior [19:39] That;s the problem [19:40] Ghengis -- I agree. That's something that needs to be ficed [19:40] *fixed [19:40] The Communications; the Warrior; the Trust. The Communicatons; The Warrior; The tRust. [19:40] and the were miscommunications, where the communications where through several channels, without the other channels knowing fully about them [19:41] Look, I won't lie to you. I've no authorization to offer you ANY deal for writing right now, and to do so would be treason. If we agree on what are the issues, we can ALL turn around and try to sort them out [19:41] *** DaPlague (~Java_user@129.177.50.193) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [19:42] Hi diplomats and noblemen! [19:42] E_T's right -- most of these disputes have been multileveled [19:42] Hey DaPlague [19:42] So... Whats up then? [19:42] Look, I'll be as simple as I can be. Roleplay is not bullshitting you. [19:42] sorting out issues... [19:42] We've ALWAYS kept communications open with you, but I understand not always fruitfully [19:42] That also needs to change [19:43] Togas hands out authorization, and AFAIK ada has none at all (nor most diplos; is that right?) [19:43] And we are trying to communicate. We want friends. [19:43] I don't see that there is no communication, only that the communication that has happened isn't working [19:43] Agreed [19:43] point [19:44] You've a good point there Panzer [19:44] Its right. adaMada has no real power. Neither have we aristocrats... [19:44] nor us Squid and clothing merchants [19:44] :P :) [19:45] actually, it's more of a side hobby. I just fish the squid and sell them. what i don't sell, i eat. [19:45] I think it would be good if we could deal directly with Togas - so things can be agreed upon more quickly [19:45] and the stuff that grows on the outskirts of my feilds makes real good garments. [19:45] but that might not be possible :-\ [19:45] Panzer -- I'm afraid that was tried in the past, with less than fruitful results [19:46] Our despot is under the impression you are not negotiable..... [19:46] It wouldn't be wise to stress him further now. [19:47] Togas wants the best to come of this for both nations, but he knows a diplomat will make a better negotiator than himself [19:47] Our Despot, though hot-headed at times, will pull through. He's really an okay guy. [19:48] (ooc, he is a lawyer, maybe that's why hes argumentative :P :) ) [19:48] one minute... [19:49] ok: present this deal to togas: [19:49] Yeah, lawyers can be sort of... "difficult" [19:49] Sorry, you speak::::::::::::::: [19:49] We will immediatly move our warrior north if... [19:50] you give us writing when you finish it [19:51] (done, by the way) [19:51] the conversation stopped dead [19:51] Hmm, I think he won't agree... What do you think? [19:51] u guys are speachless ;p [19:51] I could kick it up a few notches again if you want... [19:51] im thinking personally. dont know about others [19:52] well, we could give you another thing [19:52] try a counter offer ;) [19:52] BTW: I have orders to make it difficult for the warriors to continue in certain areas... [19:53] how about we throw in horseback riding? [19:53] dead in the ground [19:53] Suppose he could take it? Hmm, more fair deal if you ask me. [19:54] Panzer -- I'll present it to him, and I have high hopes [19:55] If we get an agreement by our next turn I can immediately move our warriors north and out of your territory. [19:55] I'll do my best [19:55] However when the warrior goes north, we can escort them on the way. :-) [19:55] aagh! I killed it Gilbert! I killed it! [19:56] (Plague wants something to DO ;)) [19:56] *** Arnelos (~Arnelos@pool-138-88-166-133.res.east.verizon.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [19:56] Ghengis - Forgive my curiosity, but I do have one quesiton. I thought lux was also researching Horseback? [19:56] Hey Arnelos] [19:56] hello Arnelow [19:56] Yeah. I am only ordered to escort their warrior. Not a VERY funny assignment. [19:56] Hey man. [19:57] hello [19:57] Lux is not [19:57] what's up? [19:57] Is or was [19:57] I'm probably misinformed -- I don't have the game, so I mainly go on what others tell me, and it sometimes causes slip ups [19:57] What? Are Lux the one lying to us ? [19:58] We need to find out what the Roleplay team wants in return for Writing when you finish it. We are saddened that you are not involved with the tech alliance the other three civs are active in and you are currently the only civ on the continent without Horseback Riding as we traded it to Lux 4 turns ago and to NeuDemo 2 turns ago and both of them declared in a treaty not to trade it to your team. [19:58] READ THAT!! [19:58] * mrmitchell slaps all who don't talk [19:58] Panzer -- I know [19:58] that was my last PM to you guys [19:58] I was just told something else also [19:58] and as I said, I don't even HAVE PTW, so I'm just trynna figure it all out :) [19:59] yes... :D [19:59] We traded Horseback RIding to Lux 4 turns ago. [19:59] Lux sure doesn't think so ;p [19:59] (or at least they don't SAY so ;p ) [19:59] If they telling you they are researching it they are lying to you [19:59] If you are speaking the truth, Panzer... then Lux are really naughty LIARs ! *grrrr* [19:59] Lux is LYING THROUGH THEIR TEETH!! [19:59] Ghengis -- This is part of our problem, then [19:59] I speak the truth [20:00] we were obviously hearing slightly different things [20:00] Panzer -- I don't doubt it personally [20:00] By not having communication we are more easily tricked. [20:00] I agree [20:01] *** mrmitchell has left #GoW-Roleplay [20:01] hehe we should get some Lux guy in here... [20:01] *** mrmitchell (mrmitchell@max2-36.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [20:01] Panzer - probably not ;p [20:01] Panzer -- It'd be harder then [20:01] lol - I know [20:02] just want to catch them in their lie [20:02] I wish [20:02] *** Signoff: mrmitchell (Quit: ) [20:02] I dunno about everyone else, but Lux scares me the omst [20:02] they seem to be the most willing to screw with everyone else [20:03] Well, how are we going to convince our Despot Togas, that Lux are the liars, and not GoW... I don't think it's easy! :p [20:03] yeah, they seem to be the sneakiest; and they have many veterans [20:03] besides... if I know Trip, he'll enter this room the moment he signs on anways [20:03] *** dejon (dejon@24.43.111.225) has joined channel #GoW-Roleplay [20:03] *** mrmitchell (mrmitchell@max2-36.cmd.cei.net) has joined channel #Gow-roleplay [20:03] hullo [20:03] Veterans don't scare me. Sneaky people do [20:03] ... [20:03] hey dejon [20:03] Hi everyone [20:03] More in here than I expected [20:03] Trip is on #civ3dem... [20:03] k, i couldnt see what u were talking and had to dis/reconnect [20:03] oh plz.... everyone has lied to everyone about at least SOMETHING - this includes GoW AND RP - the difference is that Lux just lies more :p [20:03] but he's busy :D [20:04] we lied? [20:04] Arnelos -- Very true, but Lux does lie the most :) [20:04] oh, so RP lied... [20:04] Did we? [20:04] RP NEVER lied! [20:04] :rolleyes: - if GoW wants to play innocent, fine [20:04] Arnelos likes broad statements [20:04] When did I LIE ? Tell me... [20:05] lol, everyone chill down [20:05] You guys wanna play as adults, we do that... if you wanna play innocent, that's fine too [20:05] We simply didn't not talk about things we didn't wish too [20:05] he does - and we're doing more than 'playing' innocent - we are! [20:05] Arn's talking fact -- everyoen's first obligation is to their team [20:05] Trip's been signed on for hours [20:05] BUT that doesn't mean we're lying [20:05] We can hold back the truth, but thats not to lie! [20:05] Lying makes my job HARDER not easier [20:05]