Session Start (apolyton:#c4ac): Sun Dec 18 22:38:16 2005
[22:38] *** Initial topic: "Don't forget to vote in Hall of Fame elections!"
[22:38] *** #c4ac: PJayTycy Forester|sleep imperator 
[22:38] *** #c4ac was created on Sun Dec 18 19:07:30 2005.
[22:38] PJayTycy: hello
[22:51] *** Googlie has joined #c4ac.
[22:51] *** Googlie has left #c4ac.
[22:51] *** Googlie has joined #c4ac.
[22:51] Googlie: hey - made it
[22:52] PJayTycy: hello
[22:52] PJayTycy: I don't know if someone else is here though
[22:52] Googlie: hat's the topic? - just general , or specific?
[22:52] Googlie: I see you, me, Forester and Imperator
[22:53] PJayTycy: Yes, but I've been here for 15 minutes and nobody said anything, so there ain't no "topic" either
[22:53] Googlie: LOL
[22:53] Googlie: what shall we discuss, then?
[22:53] Googlie: ACDG3 and the 2200 "bug"?
[22:53] PJayTycy: lol
[22:54] PJayTycy: I don't know if replaying the turns will solve it
[22:54] Googlie: There's an easy way for Drogue to find out
[22:54] Googlie: he just needs to open every turn from the Gaians 2200 onward and immediately hit "turn complete"
[22:54] PJayTycy: yes there is... did somebody ask him to check yetN
[22:55] Googlie: if it moves thru to Sparta 2200, then from there goes to gaians 2201. then the problem lies ion one of the turnplayers
[22:55] Googlie: I can't get a message to him as his mail box and his PM list is full
[22:55] Googlie: I'll post in the thread, tghough
[22:56] Googlie: How do I gwet rid of this .... ###### Unregistered copy, evaluation only. 
[22:56] Googlie: and this:  ###### Please ask webmaster to register it. 
[22:56] PJayTycy: which program are you using?
[22:56] *** Rubin has joined #c4ac.
[22:56] Googlie: It appears after every thing I enter
[22:56] Googlie: Java
[22:56] Googlie: Hi Ruben
[22:56] PJayTycy: hi ruben
[22:56] Googlie: sorry - Rubin
[22:57] PJayTycy: doh (I just copied googlie)
[22:57] Rubin: Hello Googlie! And hello PJayTycy!
[22:58] Googlie: How many usually attend these chats?
[22:58] PJayTycy: Googlie, those 2 messages aren't sent to the chatroom. I can't see them... I guess it's just the java web client
[22:58] Googlie: ah
[22:58] PJayTycy: I think it's the first one with people actually showing up
[22:58] *** wgabrie has joined #c4ac.
[22:58] Googlie: it's asking me to contact the webmaster to register
[22:58] Googlie: Hey wgabrie
[22:58] wgabrie: Hi!
[22:58] Rubin: Hello wgabrie!
[22:59] Googlie: what are we?  A pride of smacers?
[22:59] Googlie: (or a murder of smacers?)
[22:59] PJayTycy: huh?
[22:59] Googlie: as in a pride of lions or a murder of crows
[22:59] wgabrie: :D
[23:00] Rubin: A bunch of drones, perhaps?
[23:00] Googlie: LOL
[23:00] Googlie: a haggle of drones (no, it's a haggle of witches, isn't it?)
[23:01] Rubin: I talked to Illuminatus yesterday, I think. Seems the project is on hold until the SDK arrives.
[23:02] Googlie: there's a lot of unresolved issues yet to check off, though - no?
[23:02] Googlie: Like whether the Aliens should be in the game
[23:02] Rubin: Hm, there could be, Googlie.
[23:02] Googlie: (I vote for them, but remove that stupid nervegas penalty)
[23:03] PJayTycy: I tried a lot with the crawler unit, and I could get it to work without the SDK, but it would involve a lot of work-arounds which would consume way too much time to be worth it (if you know everything can go smooth once the SDK is released)
[23:03] Googlie: They are actually quite fun - and different - to play, contrary to what some posters have said
[23:03] PJayTycy: the main (only) issue for not including them currently is (I think) the extra amount of work on graphics
[23:04] Rubin: The Progenitors are part of SMAX, and they'll always be.
[23:04] PJayTycy: Creating some xml files for them is not so much different than for any other faction
[23:04] Rubin: True, PJayTycy.
[23:05] Googlie: Isn''t there an issue with the additional victory condition (the spacefleet summons) as well as the different energy accretions (or is that just simple programming?)
[23:05] PJayTycy: The coding however, would need to account for different rules about energy from diplomacy and exclusion from UN-voting
[23:05] Rubin: We still lack the tools to edit 3D models, though. Be it human faction or Progenitors.
[23:05] wgabrie: Graphics are going to be a challenge. I'm hoping the SDK includes something good for the 3D files.
[23:06] Googlie: I can't help any in that regard - I am just offering services for whatever grunt work might need doing - or writing
[23:06] Rubin: Googlie, what about playtesting?
[23:06] Googlie: sure - I'm up for that
[23:06] wgabrie: Aren't we all? ;)
[23:07] Rubin: When changing a lot of code, playtesting can become a serious problem to the modder.
[23:07] PJayTycy: Does anybody has an idea about when the SDK may become available ?
[23:07] Rubin: Early 2006 according to the official site.
[23:07] Googlie: didn;t Soren say February?
[23:07] Rubin: Illuminatus suggested it to be part of an expansion, though.
[23:08] imperator: hello
[23:08] Googlie: (or maybe I read in a thread where somepne had interpreted early 2006 as meaning february
[23:08] PJayTycy: I have lots of free time during january - february (exams), but not anymore after that (graduation paper to be finished)
[23:08] Googlie: Hey, Imp
[23:08] imperator: i must say your project rules :)
[23:08] *** Googlie has signed off IRC (Quit: Bye bye).
[23:08] imperator: keep up the work i wanna play AC again ;)
[23:09] wgabrie: Of course. :b:
[23:09] PJayTycy: waiting for the SDK currently, but it might be a while till it arrives...
[23:09] Rubin: PJayTycy, do you have any impression of how powerful Python scripting is? (For instance, if the SDK is significantly delayed.)
[23:09] *** Googlie has joined #c4ac.
[23:09] imperator: what does the SDK offer more?
[23:10] Googlie: hmm - managed to kick myself out
[23:11] PJayTycy: For example, in a city, you have production of minerals, food, energy... With python, you can add x minerals to a city each turn, but it will be invisible for the player. The player will still see +10 minerals / turn instead of +32 for example.
[23:11] PJayTycy: We also can not change the upkeep cost . Currently it's money from a global treassury, while in smac it's minerals from 1specific city
[23:12] Rubin: Would it be possible to write code that allows for the extra minerals to be shown?
[23:12] imperator: are you also trying to recreate the design of the advisors info screens and tech tree?
[23:12] imperator: someone from civfanatics managed to show the production and food to be shown as "base prod" + "bonus production"
[23:13] PJayTycy: Rubin : you'd need to alter all screens that use it: amongst others: the city detail screen, the city-info that pops up on the global map and  also the city-overview screen
[23:13] Rubin: imperator, that does sound promising.
[23:14] Googlie: But it begs the question - would smac/x be a better game with centra resources - it'd remove that slew of shuffling units around to rehome them to big mineral bases, etc
[23:14] PJayTycy: so, yes, it's do-able, but a lot more work than it should...
[23:14] Rubin: We would be rewriting the interface--that includes all the different screens, I believe.
[23:14] Googlie: obviously the game designers of subsequent Civ versions have decided that it's a better sustem
[23:14] PJayTycy: rubin : yes, that's true
[23:15] PJayTycy: googlie : it's less micromanagement, but I was just giving examples of what's currently possible/impossible with python
[23:15] PJayTycy: impaler : can you point a link to that mod you talked about?
[23:15] *** Googlie has signed off IRC (Quit: Bye bye).
[23:15] imperator: its the mylon mod
[23:15] Rubin: Googlie, I think that particular issue is devided into two categories: 1) A SMAC/X clone and 2) An "improved" SMAC/X.
[23:16] PJayTycy: I'll have to check that one out :-)
[23:16] imperator: (Link: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145005)http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=145005
[23:16] imperator: in the most recent version however
[23:16] PJayTycy: do you know where this "extra food" comes from ? Is it a specialist or something else ?
[23:16] Rubin: I noticed a civilopedia mod that looks promising to our efforts as well.
[23:16] imperator: he replaced the y + x design with invisible buildings that produce +5% food for every food resource
[23:17] imperator: the other design messed up the ETA for growth and production
[23:17] PJayTycy: that's the same problem I have imperator
[23:18] Rubin: The idea of "invisible" buildings is not bad.
[23:18] PJayTycy: adding %'s is supported by python, while just adding x is not
[23:18] imperator: oh i see
[23:18] imperator: you mean adding x and y due to satellites in AC? 
[23:18] PJayTycy: or crawlers
[23:18] imperator: ah
[23:19] imperator: i never used crawlers ;)
[23:19] imperator: another interesting accomplishment of mylon mod is that it has units that give 10 culture every round to the city theyre stationed in
[23:21] PJayTycy: well, for smac currently, we don't have any cultural related things planned... while it seems a valuable addition to civ4, I don't think it's usefull for c4:ac in its current state
[23:21] Rubin: Could +x additions (not +% additions) be done via specialists, perhaps?
[23:21] imperator: sure
[23:21] Rubin: For instance, "satellite specialists"?
[23:21] imperator: referring to PJayTycy 
[23:22] imperator: thats a good idea
[23:22] imperator: the Glib for example gives 2 free scientists
[23:22] PJayTycy: That would need a new specialist that gives +2 food (to feed it self) and +x 
[23:22] Rubin: Yes, perhaps a crawler could have a corresponding specialst?
[23:23] Rubin: Eh, no, "free" specialists.
[23:23] imperator: hm or do it with civics
[23:23] imperator: a civic  that gives 1 food to every city for every "food sat!"
[23:23] Rubin: Specialists contribute to a single city, civics seem to address all cities.
[23:24] PJayTycy: well, those are all work-arounds, that might work, but I just think its not worth investing a lot of time in such a workaround system if the SDK will make it possible in a nice, straightforward way
[23:24] Rubin: But for satellites, yes, perhaps.
[23:24] Rubin: PJayTycy, I think that is the general notion--to wait for the SDK before doing too much coding.
[23:25] PJayTycy: But, how is the other work going ?  The tech tree, terrain graphics and leader xml files ?
[23:25] imperator: well im going to sleep . good luck with your project
[23:25] PJayTycy: I thought those 3 areas had the most progress untill now
[23:25] PJayTycy: goodnight
[23:25] *** imperator has signed off IRC (Quit: ).
[23:25] Rubin: I think we've got most of it covered. Except, perhaps, the terrain features.
[23:26] Rubin: Elevation still seems a critical hurdle to me.
[23:26] PJayTycy: yes, that's something peculiar
[23:27] wgabrie: Terrain graphics are implimeted with several differant files. We still have to figure out how to assign the differant files to the differant terrain.
[23:27] Rubin: Technologies, factions, sounds, graphics (not 3D), text quotes, etc. are relatively easy to implement.
[23:27] PJayTycy: however, I think we might need to start bundling things and put them online (maybe private) so others can work further from there
[23:28] Rubin: PJayTycy, the problem current ly (setting aside the SDK) is our lack of a proper structure or basis to build upon.
[23:28] PJayTycy: true, that should change. I'd like to have a basic-mod, which includes atleast the smac techtree and the leaders as they are now.
[23:29] Rubin: I have a similar idea. Sounds good.
[23:30] Rubin: There are two main parts of modding here: Flavors and gameplay. I am hoping we can release someting with all flavors and perhaps some gameplay parts (crawlers, etc.).
[23:31] PJayTycy: yes, but it's hard to get the smac flavour with pikemen running around
[23:31] Rubin: True, but we might use different unit 3D models with new textures.
[23:31] Rubin: That would be the best we can do for now.
[23:32] Rubin: I.e. Scout Patrol could be a re-textured NAVY-SEAL...
[23:32] PJayTycy: I haven't played the americans in civ4 yet, but that might be a good idea
[23:32] wgabrie: Hills and mountains get height from grayscale picture files. All the flat terrain uses the same graphic file.
[23:33] wgabrie: Sorry for the delay.
[23:33] Rubin: wgabrie, is there a way to determine the elevation?
[23:33] wgabrie: There's a grayscale hight map.
[23:33] wgabrie: Dark is low, light is high.
[23:33] Rubin: I noticed your altered map, but don't know precisely what it means.
[23:34] PJayTycy: Rubin, we can store that kind of info seperatly in python, the question is, can we tell the game which heightmap to use for each tile ?  (I guess not until the sdk arrives)
[23:34] Rubin: PJayTycy, that is exactly the questions we need answers to. Currently, what is possible via Python.
[23:35] PJayTycy: most can be found here: (Link: http://apolyton.net/go.php?http://civilization4.net/files/modding/PythonAPI/)http://apolyton.net/go.php?http://civilization4.net/files/modding/PythonAPI/
[23:36] Rubin: I think I already browsed that. I am hoping someone with more insight could inform me on the possibilities regarding SMAC/X.
[23:36] Rubin: ...and especially what CANNOT be done.
[23:37] PJayTycy: I'm now browsing it especially looking for height-related functions in either CyMap or CyTile
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[23:39] Rubin: If we are able to "break" the elevation code, we would have done tremendous progress!
[23:39] wgabrie: The hills and mountains have several of their own height files, basicy each picture is a tile There are like 7 edges, and extrafiles I haven't looked into. I don't have the file names in front of me. Where as grasslands and plains use the same "flat" files.
[23:39] Rubin: ...otherwise, we need to await the SDK, I believe.
[23:39] PJayTycy: The only thing I found was "getSeaLevel", but nothing to set / get  each tile's level
[23:40] *** Googlie has signed off IRC (Quit: Bye bye).
[23:40] wgabrie: The height is done in the art files.
[23:41] Rubin: Yes, but each tile has a corresponding "definition" (i.e. impassable peaks).
[23:41] PJayTycy: graphically yes, but the question remains on how to set / get that height.
[23:41] Rubin: Perhaps we can match elevation and the graphic map.
[23:41] Rubin: True.
[23:42] PJayTycy: or we have to create a new terrain type for each different level (... - -1000 - 0 - 1000 - 2000 - 3000 - ...) 
[23:42] wgabrie: I think the programing files are also in the art directoy. or maybe the xml/texture (or sometihng).
[23:43] wgabrie: I am thinking the same as PJayTycy.
[23:43] PJayTycy: also, in civ4 the height always returns to 0 at the tile grid, so there are no artefacts. What happens if you have one tile that ends on height +1000 and the one next to it is on height +2000
[23:43] PJayTycy: won't there be a visible gap ?
[23:43] Rubin: Yes, I have been thinking about the different levels. We could adjust to only include the 1, 1000, 2000, etc. and stay away from the 1211, 2433, etc.
[23:44] Rubin: Perhaps using the same schema as the transition schema for different terrain types (plains, grasslands, etc.).
[23:45] PJayTycy: wgabrie, have you tried what happens when height maps of neighbouring tiles don't match on the edges ?
[23:45] wgabrie: No.
[23:46] PJayTycy: Well, those are things that need testing etc,... i don't think we can resolve them here in the chat.  I'd like to set some goal to achieve by the end of the month though.
[23:47] wgabrie: I think the hills and mountains give a clue. These files have more transition graphics than Grassland, plains.
[23:47] Rubin: I cannot locate any "programming" files in the art directory---only graphics.
[23:48] wgabrie: Hold on Rubin, let me go check on that.
[23:48] *** wgabrie has signed off IRC (Quit: Bye bye).
[23:48] PJayTycy: damn
[23:48] PJayTycy: he didn't really need to close IRC for that :-)
[23:48] Rubin: "Some goal", PJayTycy?
[23:49] PJayTycy: yes, I'd like to decide on specific goals to be included in a base version to work from before the SDK is released
[23:49] Rubin: Ok, I am in on that.
[23:50] PJayTycy: Definately in : tech tree (only techs), faction leader names and base names
[23:50] PJayTycy: the civ4-settler and worker
[23:50] Rubin: Haha, but those are the easy bits!
[23:50] PJayTycy: I know, most of us know, but we do need to get such a base out. 
[23:51] Rubin: Technology tree and the "original seven" sound like a fair starting point to me.
[23:51] PJayTycy: Not as a release to the public, but just so everyone can work on the more difficult things from a common base
[23:51] Rubin: Exactly!
[23:51] *** wgabrie has joined #c4ac.
[23:52] wgabrie: I can't check it now. I'll add it to my list of things to do.
[23:52] Rubin: Alternatively, we can do a "flavor" version, with a decent interface.
[23:53] PJayTycy: ok, thanks wgabrie
[23:53] wgabrie: Next chance I get I'll map out the art folder and the program files.
[23:53] PJayTycy: oh, but there are no programming files in the art folder wgabrie...    I though you would check the transitions on the height maps
[23:54] PJayTycy: rubin : changing the interface will take too much time to wait for that to put a "common base" online
[23:54] Rubin: Hm, I see.
[23:55] Rubin: What about the civilopedia?
[23:55] PJayTycy: It is a good idea, but I think the interface is one of the things we can change for the better (both compared to civ4 and smac)
[23:55] Rubin: Haha, perhaps, PJayTycy.
[23:56] PJayTycy: whenever we are not recreating something, but improving, we should get a consensus on the forum first
[23:56] wgabrie: Transistions are part of the art folder. And the programing files are somewhere in xml.
[23:57] PJayTycy: nope, the programming / interface is in the "python" folder, the configuration (like the old .ini files) are in the "xml" folder
[23:58] Rubin: PJayTycy, can we call an .xml file via Python scripts?
[23:59] PJayTycy: anyway, what do you think about units to include in that base version ?  Only the settler and worker?  All civ4 units randomly assigned to a smac tech ?  Reskinned navy seals, tanks and planes t
[23:59] Rubin: Probe teams :)
[23:59] PJayTycy: Rubin : not that I know. You can not add "other" info in the xml files, but whatever info you put in that fit in the current schema, will be accessible.
[23:59] Rubin: Sounds like a fair starting point to me.
[00:00] PJayTycy: sure, probe teams as the civ4 spy ?
[00:00] Rubin: Yes.
[00:01] Rubin: We can do some basic facilities as well (and some wonders).
[00:01] PJayTycy: which facilities ?
[00:01] Rubin: Network Nodes, Energy Banks?
[00:02] PJayTycy: hmm, those are indeed possible (because they add %'s)
[00:02] Rubin: I think I already added those two facilities.
[00:02] PJayTycy: great !
[00:02] Rubin: Barracks replaced by command centers, perhaps?
[00:02] wgabrie: For units I think we should include the basic unit types from AC. Scout, Former, Colony Pod, Mind worm, IoD, Artifact, and Unity foil. But not skin all of them until later.
[00:03] PJayTycy: wgabrie, the different native life types are currently in as the barbarians... they only need reskinning
[00:03] Rubin: Naval units... perhaps we should initially make it only focus on land units?
[00:03] PJayTycy: and new 3D models ofcourse
[00:04] PJayTycy: the question is, for which timeframe are you currently talking ?
[00:04] Rubin: A month or so.
[00:04] wgabrie: With facialties can we use the ones from the first 5 tech levels, like the Demo? Or just the basic types?
[00:04] Rubin: Demo?!?
[00:04] wgabrie: AC Demo.
[00:05] Rubin: Oh, never had the demo.
[00:05] wgabrie: The smac demo only had the first 5 tech levels, and you could play for 100 turns
[00:05] Rubin: I did the first 2 levels of SMAC/X technologies for Blake. I have have those files ready for downloading.
[00:05] PJayTycy: I'd like to have something up as soon as possible, so with everything we can do right now. Then, everyone can try to add more facilities if they think a certain facility is possible to implement without the SDK too.
[00:06] PJayTycy: I thought someone had the entire tech tree covered yet
[00:06] Rubin: Well, I have :)
[00:06] wgabrie: Tech tree yes. Graphics no.
[00:06] Rubin: But only the first 2 levels with graphics and text, I believe.
[00:07] PJayTycy: well, if we put that up, somebody else might continue to write the texts and we can go on
[00:07] PJayTycy: currently no one will work on the tech tree because they don't want to re-do the work you have already done
[00:07] Rubin: Oh, perhaps, yes.
[00:08] Rubin: Well, I'll make a link to the files immediately then.
[00:09] PJayTycy: I'll try to bundle all these things in one zip and post it online.
[00:10] wgabrie: So the tech tree is being handled.
[00:11] Rubin: Just posted the link. The technology tree is fairly easy to implement.
[00:12] Rubin: However, most of the game actually revolves around the technology tree; so, for a playable version the technology tree NEEDS to be included.
[00:13] PJayTycy: I'll post a link with :
 -> the new tech tree
 -> a "cleaned up" unit list (settler, worker, scout, probe team)
 -> a "cleaned up" building list (network node, energy bank)
[00:13] PJayTycy: anything else that is finished right now that could be included ?
[00:13] PJayTycy: ah, ofcourse, the new faction texts
[00:14] Rubin: Blake has worked on civics, I think that could be an "early" option as well.
[00:14] Rubin: But, "cleaned up" is important.
[00:15] PJayTycy: Good, anything else for this chat ? Or do we consider this session over ?
[00:16] wgabrie: Is anyone keeping a log?
[00:16] Rubin: Hm, I am still not entirely sure where to go from here...?
[00:16] PJayTycy: Well, what can be done before the SDK is released:
[00:16] PJayTycy: => trying to add more facilities
[00:16] PJayTycy: => finding out more about height levels
[00:17] PJayTycy: => reskinning the navy seals or other units to represent some basic smac units
[00:17] PJayTycy: => adding the appropriate xml for those units  (ie: giving them the right properties and tying them into the techtree somewhere)
[00:18] PJayTycy: I wouldn't try changing the interface just yet, because most of it will have to be rewritten anyway later on
[00:18] Rubin: Ok, but for this to work we definitely need "clean" files to work with; files that still make the game playable.
[00:19] PJayTycy: (scrolling back through the log, to find other things we discussed)
[00:19] Rubin: Cleaning should be first priority!
[00:19] Rubin: (Excellent summary, PJayTycy!)
[00:21] PJayTycy: I'll try to have this  "cleaned up base" online this evening / tomorrow
[00:21] Rubin: If we cannot call extra .xml files via Python, we need clean the existing ones.
[00:22] PJayTycy: yes, it's a shame we can't just add a file "c4acUnits.xml" where our units are defined
[00:23] Rubin: Well, at least we know that it is not possible. We need work with what we have available and what is possible.
[00:24] PJayTycy: ok, but I'm gone now, I don't think there's much left to be discussed tonight
[00:24] Rubin: Ok, I'll await the "clean base" and take it from there.
[00:25] wgabrie: OK.
[00:25] PJayTycy: goodnight all
[00:25] Rubin: wgabrie, do you have time?
[00:25] wgabrie: yes
[00:25] *** You are now known as PJ-away.
[00:25] Rubin: Basic retexturing of the existing Civ4 terrain... how far have we gone?
[00:27] wgabrie: We are at the same point. We need to select the terrain we want to replace. Using existing terrain. At least until we can create new ones.
[00:27] Rubin: But, can we do that with what we know by now?
[00:28] Rubin: I mean, select terrain for replacing.
[00:28] wgabrie: Yes.
[00:28] Rubin: What graphics do we want to use? The SMAC/X ones I tried using?
[00:29] wgabrie: We could. The only issue would be the clipping of the texture.
[00:29] Rubin: Do you have any suggestions for an alternative approach?
[00:30] wgabrie: Civ 4 texture file is offset by 64 pixels. I could acually enlarge the smac textures to fit.
[00:31] Rubin: Would it be an option to do a 64 pixel "custom" version of the SMAC/X tiles? Either via some copy & paste or something?
[00:31] Rubin: Instead of simply resizing the tiles?
[00:32] wgabrie: Yes I can do that.
[00:33] Rubin: I can copy & paste, but my graphic skills are limited and I struggle to be able to balance "new" creations. Especially the colors.
[00:34] wgabrie: What about the variations however? I noticed that the your or someone's textures were use random rockiness pattern. Should I do a random arangement as such?
[00:34] Rubin: What I did was simply to copy & paste rocks randomly.
[00:35] wgabrie: I have several test items I can load onto apolyton later tonight. We could decide there. Maybe have a poll.
[00:35] Rubin: If it gives a SMAC/X atmosphere, that would be sufficient.
[00:36] Rubin: I'd say try and see. If you have several "designs" that you cannot decide about---then do a poll.
[00:36] Rubin: Otherwise, just stick to one design.
[00:36] wgabrie: OK.
[00:37] wgabrie: I still need to test the texture file transitions to get the alignment just right.
[00:37] Rubin: I believe the plains, grassland and desert textures are straightforward. But how about hills and such?
[00:38] Rubin: And Floodplains look odd with the SMAC/X textures when I tested.
[00:39] wgabrie: Hills are higher with a texture around the edge. maybe I could play with it and see if I can make it look "rocky."
[00:39] wgabrie: I haven't tested the floodplains yet.
[00:40] wgabrie: Certain terrain is layered "higher" than others. That might be why the flood plain looks weired.
[00:40] Rubin: Do we need a schema to keep track of the replaced textures; as in "which types of terrain still needs replacing"?
[00:41] wgabrie: Yes. It would help to just list the Civ 4 terrain and then assign a texture to it. I found one of the tundra to look like smac fungus.
[00:42] wgabrie: At least in pattern and overlay.
[00:42] Rubin: Oh, that could be useful!
[00:43] Rubin: In Civ4, global warming can replace existing terrain with deserts; perhaps something similar can be coded to add fungal tiles.
[00:44] wgabrie: We could use the desert for fungus. Otherwise that would be a programers job.
[00:45] Rubin: Yes.
[00:46] Rubin: So, we need an index of Civ4 terrain and SMAC/X terrain?
[00:47] wgabrie: Yes. Well the Civ4 terrain can simply be got from the world builder. The smac terrain is stored in the Texture.pcx file. That's not counting landmarks.
[00:47] wgabrie: We shouldn't worry about land marks at this point
[00:48] Rubin: I agree.
[00:48] Rubin: But, we need some way to keep track of progress. An index could be an option for that.
[00:49] Rubin: At least, if more than one is going to contribute with new textures.
[00:50] wgabrie: I am thinking about creating a section of this c4ac Wiki.
[00:50] Rubin: Ok.
[00:51] Rubin: I'm searching for the tundra file you mentioned. Do you recall which one it is?
[00:51] wgabrie: No. I just used it in the editor. there are two of them.
[00:52] Rubin: tundrablend.dds? In that folder?
[00:52] wgabrie: Yes.
[00:53] wgabrie: I'm not sure one of the tundras just looks differant in the game. It has transparent parts.
[00:54] Rubin: Ok. Can you do a recolor that we can test in the game?
[00:54] wgabrie: yes. I'll try to find it later.
[00:55] wgabrie: I have to go now. Is there anything else?
[00:55] Rubin: No, I think that covers the questions I had.
[00:55] Rubin: Thanks for taking your time :)
[00:55] wgabrie: Ok, bye.
[00:55] *** wgabrie has signed off IRC (Quit: Bye bye).
[00:55] *** Rubin has signed off IRC (Quit: ).