[16:50] if anyone has any civ4 questions, I'll try to answer them. but I must warn you I've mostly been into the modding aspect of the game, not much of an MPer or strategist [16:51] the thing I want to know [16:51] is the map [16:51] fold over like its round [16:51] in the preview it looked like the world wasnt round [16:51] the default map works the same as civ1-3 maps, but you can set both x and y wrap if you want [16:51] how much smaller are the maps [16:52] seems considerably smaller [16:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [16:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [16:52] Ooh, but Locutus, modding is the most exciting part. :) [16:52] locutus, can we script in events? [16:52] it feels bigger actually, though they are probably somewhat smaller than civ3. I believe standard size is ~35x50 [16:52] vovan, I couldn't agree more :) [16:52] sm, yes [16:53] I should note that 35x50 is equivalent to 70x50 in civ3 IIRC [16:53] I'm wondering, people were talking something about XML... That's only for settings, correct? Save files and scenarios are still binaries? (Else, I imagine there would be problems with cheating in PBEMs say?) [16:53] what kind of events can be done, is it open to any values? [16:53] save files are binaries, scenarios are actually text files, you can edit them in a text editor :b: [16:53] wich leader is the hottest locutus [16:54] awesome [16:54] sm, it's very, very, very flexible. almost anything you want. and once the SDK is released you'll be able to define your own events if the existing ones aren't good enough [16:55] fire, Catherine of course :) [16:55] locutus, have you ever modded europa universalis events? [16:55] no, sorry [16:55] ok, because that game was very flexible, was wondering if it measured up [16:56] vovan, extensive anti-cheating measures have been taking, I don't think there are going to be problems there (well, not in the short term anyway, there's no such thing as unbreakable security) [16:56] sm, it's better than ctp2, which is generally recognized as the most moddable strategy game ever (until now) [16:56] there always somone who wants it a little more [16:56] what kind of things can be used as triggers? [16:57] and until we get the SDK we're going to be limited to premade events ? [16:57] what is skd [16:57] oh, many, many things. start of turn, building of city, creation of units, uncovering of tiles, you name it... [16:57] wow [16:57] people are gonna mod the shit out of this game [16:57] can you specify a x, y tile? [16:57] SDK is the source code [16:58] yes, you can use any tile, unit, city, whatever you want in Python [16:58] fire, SDK stands for Software Development Kit, it's basically libraries and source code, like Locutus said. ;) [16:58] sounds exciting [16:58] we'll be able to give some real life to scenarios [16:59] loc how are spies handled [16:59] and how powerfull our air unites [16:59] not sure if this will work in IRC, but this is the list of events: [16:59] 'mouseEvent' : self.onMouseEvent, [16:59] 'kbdEvent' : self.onKbdEvent, [16:59] 'Init' : self.onInit, [16:59] 'Update' : self.onUpdate, [16:59] 'UnInit' : self.onUnInit, [16:59] 'OnSave' : self.onSaveGame, [16:59] 'OnPreSave' : self.onPreSave, [16:59] 'OnLoad' : self.onLoadGame, [16:59] 'GameStart' : self.onGameStart, [16:59] 'GameEnd' : self.onGameEnd, [16:59] 'plotRevealed' : self.onPlotRevealed, [16:59] 'BeginGameTurn' : self.onBeginGameTurn, [16:59] 'EndGameTurn' : self.onEndGameTurn, [16:59] 'BeginPlayerTurn' : self.onBeginPlayerTurn, [16:59] 'EndPlayerTurn' : self.onEndPlayerTurn, [16:59] 'endTurnReady' : self.onEndTurnReady, [16:59] 'combatResult' : self.onCombatResult, [16:59] 'combatCalc' : self.onCombatCalc, [16:59] 'combatHit' : self.onCombatHit, [16:59] 'improvementBuilt' : self.onImprovementBuilt, [16:59] 'routeBuilt' : self.onRouteBuilt, [16:59] 'firstContact' : self.onFirstContact, [16:59] 'cityBuilt' : self.onCityBuilt, [16:59] 'cityRazed' : self.onCityRazed, [16:59] 'cityAcquired' : self.onCityAcquired, [16:59] 'cityLost' : self.onCityLost, [16:59] 'cultureExpansion' : self.onCultureExpansion, [16:59] 'cityGrowth' : self.onCityGrowth, [16:59] 'cityDoTurn' : self.onCityDoTurn, [16:59] 'cityBuildingUnit' : self.onCityBuildingUnit, [16:59] 'cityBuildingBuilding' : self.onCityBuildingBuilding, [16:59] 'cityRename' : self.onCityRename, [16:59] 'unitMove' : self.onUnitMove, [16:59] 'unitSetXY' : self.onUnitSetXY, [16:59] 'unitCreated' : self.onUnitCreated, [16:59] 'unitBuilt' : self.onUnitBuilt, [16:59] 'unitKilled' : self.onUnitKilled, [16:59] 'unitLost' : self.onUnitLost, [16:59] 'unitPromoted' : self.onUnitPromoted, [16:59] 'unitSelected' : self.onUnitSelected, [16:59] 'UnitRename' : self.onUnitRename, [16:59] 'goodyReceived' : self.onGoodyReceived, [16:59] 'greatPersonBorn' : self.onGreatPersonBorn, [16:59] 'buildingBuilt' : self.onBuildingBuilt, [16:59] 'projectBuilt' : self.onProjectBuilt, [16:59] 'techAcquired' : self.onTechAcquired, [16:59] 'techSelected' : self.onTechSelected, [16:59] 'religionFounded' : self.onReligionFounded, [16:59] 'religionSpread' : self.onReligionSpread, [16:59] 'goldenAge' : self.onGoldenAge, [16:59] 'endGoldenAge' : self.onEndGoldenAge, [16:59] 'chat' : self.onChat, [16:59] 'victory' : self.onVictory, [16:59] 'changeWar' : self.onChangeWar, [16:59] 'setPlayerAlive' : self.onSetPlayerAlive, [16:59] 'windowActivation' : self.onWindowActivation, [16:59] 'gameUpdate' : self.onGameUpdate, [16:59] * Disconnected [17:00] * /join: not connected to server Session Close: Tue Oct 25 17:00:04 2005 Session Start: Tue Oct 25 17:00:41 2005 Session Ident: #apolyton [17:00] * Now talking in #apolyton [17:00] * Topic is 'Civ4 Release Party - October 25 - 5PM est (10PM gmt)' [17:00] * Set by ACS_MarkG on Mon Oct 24 20:00:20 [17:00] welcome bacl :) [17:00] :D [17:00] okay, so that didn't work... [17:00] did you get the list? [17:00] locutus, don't paste it all in one shot [17:00] half [17:01] up to UnInit, Locutus :) [17:01] uninit? my god, that's only the first 5 or so... [17:01] if you didnt get my questions they were how are spies handled and how powerfull our air unites [17:01] well, I'll post the full list in the forum later tonight [17:01] Now, the thingey after the colon, that's the function that gets called on the event, yes? [17:01] spies are explained in the CFC preview, not much to add to that [17:01] And I imagine you can define your own? :) [17:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [17:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [17:02] the first 5? how many are there? [17:02] and indeed, if I didn't answer your question yet you're going to have to ask it again, because I got logged out [17:02] how powerfull are air units [17:02] and do you need them to take a moder city [17:02] so for 'self.onUnInit,' we can pass it any value? (a valid unit ofc) [17:03] what I posted is just the event map, I'll explain how to call the events later. but yeah, the thing after the column is the actual name of the event in Python (the part before it is the C++ name actually) [17:04] you can define your own events in the SDK, but with the existing ones you'd be hardpressed to find anything that can't be done already. it's possible, but not easy... [17:04] can you talk about the SDK? [17:05] there are about 60 events, and they're pretty flexible [17:07] air units: I haven't played much in the modern game, but IIRC bombers can bombard defenses, they work pretty much like siege units. fighters can attack ground units (or maybe bombers too), they're fairly strong when used in numbers, but adequately expensive. pretty balanced AFAICT [17:07] * Akaoz has left #apolyton [17:08] if you want to take a well-defended city, modern or ancient, you need siege units of some kind, whether air or land. or you need many, many regular units [17:08] sm, what do you mean with passing a value? [17:08] onUninit is called when the game shuts down [17:09] what do you want to know about the SDK? [17:09] * [Derek] has joined #apolyton [17:09] am I boring you guys or are you so awestruck that you can't answer? [17:10] awstruke [17:10] so how long did you test it for [17:10] ok, good :) [17:10] No, no, it's great Locutus, just information overload here. ;) [17:10] I'll see if I can find a brief example of how an event works [17:11] <[Derek]> is it possible to get the game yet if you haven't pre-ordered?' [17:11] leaving now - Bye [17:11] * rumpo_kid has left #apolyton [17:11] i was assuming that OnUninit meant on unit init (like when its the units turn) and we could pass a value as in specifying the unit [17:11] have you played it online [17:11] how does it work [17:11] is there a 3rd party server [17:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [17:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [17:12] what are events? [17:12] about the SDK, can you give a neat example of what you've done with it? [17:13] events are triggered when something in the game happens, e.g. when a unit is built, at which point you can define your own code to tell what should happen (e.g. give it a free promotion) [17:13] oh, I see, like triggers [17:13] yes. [17:13] <[Derek]> grr....just called another ebgames and they said tomorrow :( [17:13] I haven't done much with the SDK myself yet but other people have added new spy mission, added stacked combat, MAD, etc [17:14] a functional MAD ? [17:14] yes. online play works like with every other game, you log in to the lobby and start or join a game [17:15] okay, gonna try to list some python code, I hope I don't get kicked :scared: [17:15] def onUnitBuilt(self, argsList): [17:15] 'Unit Completed' [17:15] self.parent.onUnitBuilt(self, argsList) [17:15] dw.updateExtraUnitCosts() [17:15] that's the code for when a unit is built, it call the function dw.updateExtraUnitCosts(), which I defined myself (the rest is part of the code the game ships with) [17:16] the actual code from update.ExtraUnitCosts: [17:16] game = gc.getGame() [17:16] if ( (game.getGameTurn() >= 26 and game.getGameTurn() < 36) and game.getActivePlayer() == iGermans ): [17:16] self.setExtraUnitCost( gc.getPlayer(iGermans).calculateUnitCost() / 2 ) [17:17] this means that when a unit is built between game turn 26 and 36 and the player is german, that player will pay extra gold cost [17:17] it's from the WWII North Africa scenario I designed with 2 other guys [17:18] it's a brief and very simple example, but it shows the sort of stuff you can do with Python events [17:18] Good stuff. But I am wondering... How well is this integrated with the editor? Being a CS person myself, I wouldn't have a problem with stuff like this, but I can see how this can scare and confuse some people. :) [17:18] python isnt so cryptic, nice [17:19] it's not part of any editor. python code is read/written with an external text editor. I recommend something like EditPlus or NotePadPlus or UltraEdit or whatever else is out there [17:19] looking forward to that scenario since i saw the screenshot [17:20] it may look confusing but it's really not that hard. I'm currently working on extensive documentation, but we've been under a lot of pressure to finish the actual game, so I'm a bit behind on that [17:21] So you can't do any of the fancy scripting stuff through the game when you are making a scenario? I hope the API documentation for the built-in functions is good then :D [17:22] all you really need are some good examples [17:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [17:22] you can then disect and build on those for your own little tweaks [17:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [17:22] well, there's a command line in the game for debugging, and obviously you can alt-tab quite easily and hotswap code. the API pretty much speaks for itself. I'm working on expanding the documentation for that as well, but a regular guide has priority right now [17:22] Right, right. I'm just sayin'. :) [17:23] I've written a script to extract HTML documents from the SDK code (which isn't released until december but I have it myself of course), I'll post the API reference tonight or tomorrow [17:24] haha [17:24] I got one [17:24] did you like the game [17:24] =P [17:24] you'll be pleased to learn that there are several hundred methods in the API spread over 2 dozen or so classes [17:24] that's easy, hands down the best civ game to date :) [17:25] I am pleased and awestruck, and excited to no end, all at once. Now all I need to see is the email that says my pre-order has shipped :D [17:25] can you paste any other events ? [17:25] well, that's one thing I can't help you with :) [17:26] do you like [17:26] the religion aspect [17:27] In the IGN video review it looked like the map was square, can you address that? It also said that religion doesn't give your civ any bonuses (they're all the same), but if you found it you do get money. [17:27] it would be a lot of work on my part to post them all, but some notable events: onLoad, onSave, onGameStart, onGameEnd, onBeginTurn, onEndTurn [17:28] they give you bonus's [17:28] they just meant [17:28] you choose wich bonus's the relgion gives you [17:28] plotReleaved, combatResult, combatCalc, combatHit (hmm, those last two are new to me, they must've added those at the last minute :expect:), improvementBuilt, buildingBuilt, unitBuilt, firstContact [17:28] they did it aht way to not ofend a relgion [17:29] So for instance, you could make Christianity support human sacrifice? [17:29] or slavery? [17:29] i dont know [17:29] :/ [17:30] cityAcquired, cityRazed, cityGrowth, borderExpansion, cityDoTurn, cityRename, greatPersonBorn, religionFounded, religionSpread, victory, techAcquired, unitSelected, unitPromoted, goldenAge, setPlayerAlive [17:30] that's the most important ones I think. [17:31] So you could make a mod where if you rename a city it blows up in a nuclear mushroom cloud? [17:31] religion is pretty cool, it's a major part of the game. they make your people happier, they can bring in a lot of gold if you use your missionaries well, they help diplomacy and they allow all kinds of cool religious civics [17:32] Haha, there's a city rename event? Nice. :) onCityRename: MessageBox.Show("You have renamed the city! Citizens are unhappy, because they liked the old name"); game.getCity(argsList["cityName"]).decreaseHappiness(); [17:32] :D [17:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [17:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [17:32] no religions are offended if you ask me, but there are some really sensitive people out there, I'm sure *someone* will find *something* to get offended about... [17:32] there is no such thing as human sacrifice in the game [17:33] but combining christianity and slavery is perfectly possible. as was the case in real history :) [17:33] *cough* souther baptist [17:33] Jack Thompson tackles his toughest challenge yet, an E rated game. [17:33] blowing up a side after a rename? yeah, that's entirely possible. wouldn't make much sense, but it's possible :) [17:34] THEY HAVE REALIZED MY DREAM. [17:34] That will be my first mod. [17:34] :lol: [17:34] what mod [17:34] Hrm would it be possible to add a stealth missionary that could cross borders by giving him some attributes of a spy? [17:35] im going to make civ the sims mod [17:35] He'd cost more than a spy or a missionary, obviously. [17:35] you'll get a settler [17:35] and a warrior [17:35] arsonide, I haven't actually tried, but I thikn you can [17:35] I'll check the unit properties [17:35] Does the settler like public WooHoo? [17:36] The warrior has a job as a slacker. [17:37] okay, checked, yes, you can make any unit enter enemy territory by setting the bRivalTerritory flag (at least I'm 99% sure) [17:38] bRivalTerritory? Oooh, hungarian notation is teh evil. ;) [17:38] But yeah that would be cool, a stealth missionary, you could call him the "Heretic" or "Blasphemer" or something, and if he failed he wouldn't die, necessarily, but you'd take a diplomatic hit to all the nations that share his religion. [17:39] "Does the settler like public WooHoo?" rofl :lol: [17:39] well, better get used to it, vovan, 'cuz it's used throughout the files, both XML and Python :) with Python being dynamically typed, it's pretty much a necessity [17:40] * SeeSchloss has joined #apolyton [17:40] * snoopy369 has joined #apolyton [17:41] what hungarian? [17:41] Looked pretty english to me [17:41] it's geek speek, don't worry about it ;) [17:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [17:42] Oh, I'm sure it makes sense to use it here, for reason you name, just that I've had a traumatic experience with hungarian notation gone horribly wrong in a certain C++ database application I took part in. :dizzy: ;) :lol: [17:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [17:42] lo :) [17:42] I learned a bit of python back in the day [17:42] but I forgot :( [17:43] So, how many people have the game so far ;) [17:44] 0 + beta testers? I think. :) [17:44] the square root of 0 [17:44] how can it go wrong? unless you label variables one type and use them as another, but that would be supremely stupid... [17:44] Well I called the temp agency, and they didn't say "no" outright, they said they'd look around and call me back...so I may have it next week. [17:44] ah, waiting on cash to get the game? ;) [17:44] yea [17:44] firaxians, firaxis consultants (that's me and half a dozen others), beta testers and game reviewers, but that's all so far it seems... [17:44] sounds good ... good luck :) [17:45] Jonah Falcon got shot down then, or whatever his name is? [17:45] the guy who claimed to get it yesterday? [17:45] he's a game reviewer [17:45] Any of you have Battlefield 2? While we wait... [17:45] hm, he claimed to have gotten it not in a reviewer capacity [17:45] but then again ... ;) [17:45] no sir, no BF2 [17:45] Wesnoth ;) [17:46] then he's BSing, because the game isn't out yet, certainly wasn't yesterday [17:46] lol ;) [17:46] shouldn't it be out now on the east coast, however? [17:46] * snoopy369 heads to the forum if he missed something ;) [17:47] How long you think multiplayer for Civ4 will go on? [17:47] maybe, but noone reported getting it yet. I do remember one person posting it'd be available after 4 PM, but I don't know how reliable that is [17:47] what do you mean? how long a game takes? [17:48] My store said it should be in ~12pm [17:48] give or take an hour, central time [17:48] No communities usually die, unless a game is supremely good. [17:48] I'm mainly worried about it being dead before I have the game :P [17:48] ah lol [17:48] no [17:48] Civ is a game with an eternal community ;) [17:48] Locutus, how can it go wrong? Easy, when people use it for too many things. ;) Here's a silly example from wikipedia: a_crszkvc30LastNameCol : constant reference function argument, holding contents of a database column of type varchar(30) called LastName that was part of the table's primary key. Now, this is a bit of overkill, but honestrly not too far from some cade I had to work with. When you get like ten characters worth of hungarian notation, it r [17:49] civ has a strong following [17:49] arson, I expect Civ4 will be around for quite a while [17:49] very hard core [17:49] Locutus: What's with the musical main theme? It changes every time I hear it, in the civ4 trailer, in the civ4 video review, and the "Baba Yetu" song on CivFanatics, it's all the same song but they aren't the same. [17:49] there's still people playing civ2 and ctp1 after all... [17:49] Arsonide: civ is a big enough series that even if civ4 is the worst possible game it could be, it will hang around for years ;) (ala Civ3) [17:49] and this game is much more MP-friendly [17:50] I think they're just remixing it to fit each individual trailer. [17:50] vovan, right, that's definitely bad. but you're absolutely mad if you do that, I never use more than one type. if it's a list or dict, I also append List or Dict, but if it gets more complicated than that, tough luck, read the comments... [17:51] <[Derek]> "there's still people playing civ2 and ctp1 after all..." <-- I play Civ2 all the time [17:51] * Taliseian has joined #apolyton [17:51] Bah is there any way to screenshot a WMV? [17:51] hm [17:51] When I paste it into paint, it changes depending on what is in the movie right now. [17:51] It's like a dynamic image [17:52] for music there are two 'african' themes: one for the intro movie, one for the main menu. I think the one on civ4.com is the main menu one [17:52] isn't it easier to use a video editor to grab stills? [17:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [17:52] but GIMP should be able to do it, not sure about paint [17:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [17:52] ah VLC can do that [17:52] sec [17:53] the theme on civ4.com is the main movie music [17:53] * rumpo_kid has joined #apolyton [17:54] hello all [17:55] * [NL]Thrax has joined #apolyton [17:56] * [NL]Thrax makes a dance of joy [17:56] * [NL]Thrax is now known as [NL]Thrax|Food [17:56] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> sorry but today is deperission day [17:56] why so sad? [17:56] * SirOsis has joined #apolyton [17:57] there, finally [17:57] Locutus let me show you something I'm worried about [17:57] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> because i found out that one of my cats may have cancer or a very nasty disease [17:57] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> there is only a small chance that it is relatively harmless [17:58] -Arsonide- You have successfully recieved huh.JPG. [17:58] hmm, now that I booted up the game, both themes are actually the same now, I guess they changed it [17:58] What is that? [17:58] I'm sorry to hear that - I wish you moggy all the best [17:58] Looks like a border to me [17:59] I've seen such straight lines elsewhere too [17:59] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> locustus does my dad still teach you at the uni? [17:59] arson, that's a really small pic, hard to make anything out, but I think you're looking at the edge of a flat map [18:00] There's flat maps? [18:00] haven't followed any of his classes in a while now, tomcat. and sorry to hear about your cat :( [18:00] well, yes, if you set x and y wrap to No [18:00] Oh, so the game can be played either flat or sphere? [18:00] mostly for scenarios of course [18:00] Ah so it's for custom maps, but default is spherical? [18:01] or doughnut or neptune (I think it's called) [18:01] default is 'sphere' yes [18:01] Awesome [18:01] * Arsonide is happy [18:01] * Arsonide again [18:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [18:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [18:02] correction: only for scenarios. unless I'm overlooking something, you can't set this for random maps [18:03] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> Does anybody here already have civ4? [18:03] don't get mone til xmas :( [18:03] Awesome, sphere is one of the coolest parts of civ3, I had to take 50 cavalry across the world, then I noticed I could ferry them across a 15 mile channel to the enemy because it looped around. [18:04] :lol: [18:04] That attack isn't working so well now though [18:04] All my cavalry are carryovers from the industrial musket age, so his infantry are slaughtering them [18:04] neptune? [18:05] y wrap but not x wrap. or maybe it was uranus. one of those planets anyway... [18:05] tomcat: firaxians, firaxis consultants (that's me and half a dozen others), beta testers and game reviewers, but that's all so far it seems... [18:05] It should be available today in about 3 hrs for me [18:06] lol, locutus do you have that on copy/paste? :) [18:06] I do now :) [18:06] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> so you have it? and? is it as good as ign claims? [18:06] Of course I won't get it for another 8 hrs. WORK! [18:06] y wrap but not x wrap [18:06] it's better :) [18:06] Tomcat: i think we're asking if it's as good as POLY claims... :) [18:06] * quantum_mechani has joined #apolyton [18:06] work :shame: [18:06] i hope my store gets it < 1:30pm my time (2.5 hrs from now) [18:07] I like how combat is still 1 vs 1 unit BUT say you have a stack of 3 fight a stack of 3, they'll all pair up and fight at the same time. [18:07] otherwise i can't get it until 10am tomorrow unless i take a long lunch (which I'm not really allowed to do, being in retail and all) [18:07] Saves a lot of time. [18:07] * Tenarrus has joined #apolyton [18:07] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> the only thing for me is what is poly? [18:07] * snoopy369 laughs [18:07] * snoopy369 hopes tomcat realizes where he is ... ;) [18:07] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> I would like to say combat which doesnt finishes units of entirely [18:07] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> yes irc channel [18:07] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> apolyton [18:08] and drop tho A and the Ton and you get ... ;) [18:08] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> but i just returnated from months of absense [18:08] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> havent been here since about 1 month after conquests release [18:08] Tomcat: What are you talking about, this is the Counterstrike IRC room. [18:08] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> aha [18:08] wow, that's a long time [18:08] Returnated? Duya's in the house [18:08] anywho Apolyton is abbreviated "poly" by most of us ;) [18:09] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> Well i dont do that(yet) [18:09] How about A-ton? [18:09] I wish Civ4 would magically appear on my door with a bacon cheeseburger and 6 liters of pure unadulterated caffeine. [18:10] well you can do that if ye like sirosis ;) i'll understand ye [18:10] * snoopy369 laughs at arsonide [18:10] though i did make the gf go on a sodarun with me last night ;) [18:11] good man [18:11] X3 The Reunion comes out today as well. [18:11] It's a tough call. [18:11] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> I want civ4 and that the time is 18:30 [18:11] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> because then i can eat [18:11] X3 is singleplayer only, though...so Civ4 wins. [18:11] * HarrierUK has joined #Apolyton [18:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [18:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [18:12] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> x3? [18:13] no idea ... ? [18:13] * Rysz has joined #apolyton [18:13] x3 and civ come out on the same day [18:13] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> x3 sounds familliar [18:13] starting to get crowded in here... [18:13] So what civ are you going to start with? [18:13] x3 reunion [18:14] im debateing should I play civ 3 [18:14] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> x men 3? [18:14] If the civ has 2 leaders do you get to pick the one you want? [18:14] It's a space simulation [18:14] Has one of the deepest economies ever, you build your own factories and such. [18:14] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> ahh... [18:14] sir: yes [18:14] It's MOO3! [18:14] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> I would like to see different leaders in the course of time [18:14] no [18:14] nothin glike moo [18:14] RTS, I presume? [18:14] I haven't seen any mention of a Palace or throne room with Civ4 [18:14] its fp [18:15] its like .... freespace [18:15] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> Like dynasties for monarchies [18:15] No it's first person, you dogfight, dock at stations, etc. [18:15] I heard there's a throne room [18:15] ah, bleh ;) [18:15] I think I'll play Greece in homage [18:15] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> heared about x2 [18:15] there's a throne room, though I actually haven't seen in in action yet, which worries me somewhat [18:15] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> noes! [18:16] So do they plan on expansions for Civ4? [18:16] My bro knows the Chinese will be coming out once again. [18:16] Always with the chinese [18:16] I mean, it basically adds everything that Civ3 and it's expansions had and more, so what could they possibly expand on? [18:16] Thats easy, more civs. [18:16] there is always somethign to add [18:16] New traits again too. [18:17] More leaders [18:17] new maps new units new civs [18:17] new science [18:17] Scenarios [18:17] new underware [18:17] There could also be a Test of Time-esque expansion to showcase the modding capabilities. [18:17] I think my first game I'm going india, and going to try and get a diplomatic victory, in rememberance of India in my current (and only) civ3 game. I am china, so although I didn't want to take India out, I had to in the name of progress. [18:17] Though Firaxis didn't do the original Test of Time, so thats probably just me hoping. [18:17] * ChaosLrd is now known as ChaosLord [18:18] And X2 wasn't that great, so i'm not bothering with X3. [18:18] The trading and such was ok, though annoying at times. But the combat was a joke. [18:20] The combat has improved in X3 [18:20] but [18:20] there's no cockpit model [18:20] just a HUD [18:20] Heh, and its improved how? [18:21] the economics is suppose to be stellar [18:21] excuse the pun [18:21] * SirOsis slaps Tenarrus around a bit with a large halibut [18:21] I'm sure it will be broke like X2 originally was. [18:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [18:22] Economics wise, that is. [18:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [18:22] the trading system might attract me, but I suck at firt person anything real time, and even worse when it is 3d ;) [18:23] * ACS_MarkG has joined #apolyton [18:23] * ChanServ sets mode: +o ACS_MarkG [18:23] * SirOsis slaps MarkG around a bit with Tenarrus [18:23] Better AI so no more ramming, newtonian physics now, so you have to compensate for inertia, more weapons including one that freezes their movement (for the pirates), all sorts of weapons including homing missiles, short range rockets, bullets, lasers, etc. [18:23] Filling up in here [18:24] * ACS_MarkG changes topic to 'Civ4 Release Party - 5PM est (10PM gmt) ' [18:24] what took you so long, Markos? :) [18:24] He was playing Civ4 >:( [18:24] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +o Locutus [18:24] Playing Fried in MP [18:24] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> I do think some important civs are missing [18:24] real life....:( [18:24] You should sell yours [18:24] no such thing [18:24] real life <-- :q: [18:24] I sold mine on eBay for $3, still need $47 more for Civ [18:25] lo Markos :) [18:25] * snoopy369 suggests Tomcat add civs and post them on the Directory for public consumption :b: [18:25] ooooh, Blood Plasma [18:25] That's like $20 right? [18:26] Sell your organs on the black market for cash. [18:26] I heard [18:26] they found a virus on the gold cd [18:26] Donate some of your boys [18:26] they had to cancel the shipment and resedn it out [18:26] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> i add civs by modding? [18:26] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> i have no skill [18:26] so who's got civ4 yet? :) [18:26] * snoopy369 doesn't :( [18:27] noone [18:27] not till tomrrow [18:27] * snoopy369 is waiting for Locutus to hit ctrl-v [18:27] Maybe today [18:27] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> the american icbm looks strange more like a cruise missle [18:27] firaxians, firaxis consultants (that's me and half a dozen others), beta testers and game reviewers, but that's all so far it seems... :) [18:27] ah, there it is ;) [18:28] so why arent you playing locutus [18:28] anyone want to play civ 3 [18:28] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> im getting mine after my dad goes to the US. Games are there so much cheaper its unfair. [18:28] Markos, did you know that the nick 'settler' doesn't seem to be reserved by apolyton irc? [18:28] EB won't have it today :( [18:28] Tenarrus - really? [18:28] i'm writing documentation, although not much of that is happening right now [18:28] yup [18:28] Well in Daytona Beach [18:28] not till tomrrow [18:28] fireforge112: I only have Civ3, not the PTW expansion [18:28] the had problems shipping [18:28] I called yesterday and they said today. But you never know [18:28] hmm yes snoopy [18:28] Markos - Anyhow, someone nicked that nick yesterday, preventing page updates for hours ;) [18:29] SirOsis: same thing with Gamestop locally here [18:29] well i be around and happy to kickban any idiots [18:29] hehe :b: [18:29] it just surprised me ... most other irc servers just auto-reserve important nicks ;) [18:29] * Taliseian thinks that MarkG enjoys that far too much........ }:> [18:30] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> the movies on the civ4 site of the units with guns who fire looks really wierd [18:30] you underestimate Markos's laziness [18:30] i'm lazy?!?!? [18:30] it's easier on irc than on poly though ... :) just a few keystrokes ... :) [18:30] lol [18:30] I'm actually running civ4 in the background right now :) [18:30] * snoopy369 curses Locutus' name [18:30] bah. [18:30] ACS_MarkG: My offer is still up to help you kickban said idiots. [18:30] lol [18:30] * snoopy369 still has to WORK today :( :( [18:30] Now what am I supposed to do until Friday? [18:31] they better get the game < 1pm ... otherwise i can't get it until tomorrow [18:31] locutus: that is a nasty remark :P [18:31] and that's HORRIBLY depressing, as i stayed up late last night to set up my sleep schedule given the time off later this week :) [18:31] the game wont be in till tomrrow [18:31] you asked for it! (well, whoever it was that asked why I wasn't playing anyway) ;) [18:31] This is worse then waiting for a crack fix [18:31] That's why I have my crack stash already [18:31] oh... ok, I did repeat the question... :$ [18:32] See snoopy, you shoulda done smash and grab. [18:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [18:32] they don't have the game in the store yet =/ [18:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [18:34] http://civilization4.net [18:34] don't tease me [18:35] * Solver has joined #apolyton [18:35] there goes the neighbourhood... [18:35] hey all [18:35] * snoopy369 welcomes solver [18:35] markos, your task for the civ4 expansion is to have the apolyton store ship it to everyone :) [18:36] :lol: [18:36] sure, np, all i need is an image of the cd :) [18:36] can be arranged ;) [18:36] we can do cd's really cheap (less tha $50) :D [18:36] you're great [18:36] willing to go to jail for the good of the fans [18:36] yay! [18:37] * jaask has quit IRC (Quit: O_o) [18:37] hmm [18:37] anything for apolytoners! [18:37] Markos ... does that news item mean that we won't see the game in retail stores today? [18:37] that's the second time in two weeks you say that [18:38] ? [18:38] lol [18:38] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> fewd [18:38] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> ! [18:38] i'm creating a slogan :) [18:38] :b: [18:39] I know a good slogan. [18:39] "The spice is the life!" [18:39] snoopy, today is the official release date. copies have actually been shipped all previous week [18:39] Use that one. [18:39] k :) [18:40] my gamestop has suggested many times to me that they won't get it until they release it ... but i think they're just not knowledgeable about how it works [18:40] ie that they'll put it on shelves the moment they have it in their hands, which is supposed to be today [18:40] how about "the spice must flow" ? :D [18:40] hmm [18:40] how about The Civ Must Flow :D [18:40] i think it's original :cute: [18:41] hehe [18:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [18:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [18:43] * snoopy369 wonders how annoyed his gamespot will be if he calls them [18:43] and markos, if it's been shipping since last week, why haven't people gotten the game yet on the east coast? [18:43] it's 12:45 there ... [18:43] Lazy stockers? [18:43] i'm pretty confident stores will put it out at open if they have it at open ;) [18:44] snoopy [18:44] we have an eb rep on the other chat [18:44] Hmm, Timmer asked a good question on Apolyton. You people with Civ4, is unit renaming still in? [18:44] and he said take 2 had problems shiping [18:44] so it wont come till tomrrow [18:45] lol just looking at that ;) [18:45] * jaask has joined #apolyton [18:45] * jaask has quit IRC (Quit: O_o) [18:45] * jaask has joined #apolyton [18:46] Chaos, I know it's possible in Python, but I still haven't figured out how to do in the regular game [18:46] so if it's not possible it's just a matter of adding a button for it [18:47] snoopy, because it's not released officially? [18:47] * quantum_mechani has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [18:47] what do you mean? :) [18:47] Can I start a MP game and then make it PBEM? [18:47] i'm almost sure i renamed a merchant the other day.... [18:47] release date is 10/25 ... :) [18:47] it's not = it wasnt [18:48] I just mean it should have been released this morning ;) [18:48] at open [18:48] hell yea [18:48] don't worry about it, it's just my anciness :) [18:48] EB told me they would get it today and unpack at 10-11 [18:48] well gamestop won't answer their phone =/ [18:48] at night [18:48] lol [18:48] will try again in [18:48] 5 [18:48] 4 [18:48] 3 [18:48] 2 [18:48] 1 [18:48] ok try again [18:49] 10-11? [18:49] 10-11 am here [18:49] when they get their shipment in [18:49] ah well i guess some stores have it already some will get it today [18:50] Fella that works for EB over on CFC syas it's delayed untill tomorrow :X http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=132750 [18:50] crazy, how some people can't wait for a game... :-D [18:50] Can anyone set up a pitboss server or is that just firaxis? [18:50] =/ [18:50] though makahlua that's probably better for me [18:50] as i work tonight + tomorrow night and then have the rest of the week off [18:50] if i get it today, i'm not getting sleep tonight ;) [18:51] True, and I might actually get more stuff done around the house today too :o [18:51] * Chris has joined #Apolyton [18:51] =/ [18:52] he looks like he knows what he's talking about ... [18:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [18:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [18:52] given he did the same thing i'd have done at work if a book looked to be delayed :( [18:52] just emphasizes the shortcomings in the computer game distribution network though :( :( [18:52] * Lemmy has joined #apolyton [18:52] i don't have it yet! :'( [18:52] http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=132750 [18:53] you want to share the lag with us, or is there something to read at that link? [18:53] read ;) [18:53] aha, it loaded [18:54] bah, i'm trying to confirm that w/my gamestop but they are not answering the phone =/ [18:54] ah well ... tomorrow :) [18:54] is he shot yet? [18:54] They must have caller ID or closed shop because they are playing it already [18:55] ROFL :) [18:55] NOOOO! [18:55] I wanted to play tonight [18:56] =/ [18:56] * Kailes[G] has joined #apolyton [18:56] it's not necessarily a guarantee for other stores, but ... [18:56] likely [18:56] hi [18:56] * Tyranthraxus has joined #apolyton [18:56] and since gamestop merged with EBgames, they probably have the same problems [18:56] lo [18:57] * Akaoz has joined #apolyton [18:57] * Ninot has joined #Apolyton [18:57] unless they maintained separate distribution networks [18:57] Hi everyone [18:57] Time to find a distribution center and go on a raid [18:57] lo ninot [18:57] nah, time to find a fedex airfield :) [18:57] does anyone other than Betas have the game yet? [18:57] um, testers and reviewers only =/ [18:58] I'm hijacking your plane so I can get my copy of Civ4! [18:58] http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140506 [18:58] my thread loads faster ;) [18:58] god, maybe they do have caller ID ... ;) [18:58] they've never not answered it on my first try before [18:58] 2 for 2 anyway :) [18:58] macaroni and cheese tastes like shit when im not playing Civ4 :( [18:58] hehe [18:59] * Rysz time for dinner... cu later [18:59] I had my bottle of champagne chilled too. [19:00] * Rysz has quit IRC (Quit: ) [19:00] damn those latest screenshots look hot. [19:00] hey... are the NDA's expired? [19:00] * HarrierUK has quit IRC (Quit: ) [19:00] well well well, my order has been shipped. hopefully the plain does not become a victim of air piracy [19:01] errr ... plane [19:01] the real question is will the ship-directs come today [19:01] or did they have the same problem? [19:01] Yeah, Locutus/Solver, can you discuss the full game now, even though there was a shipping delay? [19:02] I'm not a lawyer [19:02] well, it's a bit late for me to scramble back now is it? I pretty much disclosed the entire Python and XML structure of the game already :) [19:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [19:02] We can discuss what is otherwise accessible [19:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [19:02] which is supposedly everything about the whole game [19:02] * Akaoz has left #apolyton [19:02] Will it do my laundry? [19:03] yes! and it bakes pizzas too! :) [19:03] can I become asexual, with Apolyton fufilling all my non-biological needs? [19:03] um [19:03] * snoopy369 runs and hides [19:03] :scared: [19:04] I might have missed something, has it been revealed which scenarios ship with the game? [19:04] why did I say apolyton? i meant Civ4 [19:04] hm [19:04] * Akaoz has joined #apolyton [19:05] Platypus rex said he saw somewhere 4 will ship [19:05] including a US Civil War scenario [19:05] thats not a lot better Ninot [19:05] um [19:05] lol [19:05] I don't think so but in case anyone is wondering: ancient mediterranean, WWII mediterranean, Earth 1000 AD and US Independence War [19:05] i think he means revolution [19:05] http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140453 [19:05] Have the authors been revealed as well :cute:? [19:06] rumpo_kid, you havent gotten addicted yet, have ya? [19:06] there is an apolyton directory entry as well for the US Independence war [19:06] I'm gonna let the creators of the scenarios step forward themselves, but I worked all but the US one [19:07] Ninot I'm having to wait 2 months THEN I'm hooked [19:07] cool :) [19:07] mostly the WWII one though [19:07] WWII Mediterranean where there's no land excepting crete and corsica? :cute: [19:07] WHat kind of non-scenario maps? I imagine there's got to be Earth and Med maps, given the scenarios? [19:07] (i forget who said that somewhere) [19:07] I did yesterday snoop :p [19:07] there's Africa [19:07] ah there we go :) [19:07] no Sicily? [19:07] There is of course :) [19:08] Earth AD 1000 ... hmm, that ought to be interesting [19:08] The WW2 Africa scenario's fun. Good work by Locutus and the team. [19:08] Even I managed to beat it! [19:08] there are quite a few land maps but I'm not sure if they all ship with the game or if some will be used for other purposes, so I'd better not mention them lest I disappoint anyone [19:08] what, Solver, as the British? :p [19:08] As long as I get an Earth map. One that has New Zealand on it, unlike last time ;lol: [19:08] Italians! [19:09] wait, ww2 africa [19:09] ? [19:09] Nah, I've beaten it as De Gaulle too :) [19:09] are there 2 ww2 scens, or are you calling ww2 africa what locutus called ww2 mediterranean [19:09] ? [19:09] try the Allies next, they're a real challenge [19:09] lol @ Makahlua [19:09] new zealand? [19:09] no, they are the same, snoopy [19:09] why would we want that on the map ... :lol: [19:09] One scenario, it's actually called Desert War [19:10] Yep I was afraid to try the Allies all along :) [19:10] Athens are an objective now, right? [19:10] it covers North Africa (Marocco-Egypt), Israel/Syria, Turkey, Greece, Southern Italy and most of Spain [19:10] yes [19:10] and of course it has a bunch of events to spice things up [19:10] is a beta tester present who tried out the earth map? [19:11] Including the Afrika Korps that are weaker than the Lithuanian army [19:11] I only tried Earth1000 AD, which uses the Earth map (duh), and it was quite fun [19:11] and did you win as America, Locutus? [19:11] hah, you haven't played the latest version then, Solver [19:12] Locutus, how many cities have space on the Earth 1000AD map? just curious [19:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [19:12] on WWII? yes, of course, I won every game I played. then again, I played it a LOT [19:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [19:12] hehe [19:12] woo, USA, USA! [19:12] I honestly don't know, grendel. many. though large sections of the map (Americas, Africa, Russia) are also empty [19:13] Russia being absolutely empty is historically correct :cute: [19:13] yes, America too [19:13] * HarrierUK has joined #Apolyton [19:13] I meant Asian Russia of course, European Russia is course occupied [19:13] How is Byzantine represented in the 1000 ad game/ [19:13] ? [19:13] * HarrierUK has quit IRC (Quit: ) [19:13] how do you mean how. it's there [19:13] @ SNoopy - yeah one of the two earth maps in Civ 3 kind of missed NZ :X [19:13] Greece would act as Byzantine probably. [19:13] cool [19:14] sigh, gamestop sucks =/ still not answering phone [19:14] Hey Locutus, do any of the scenarios break 18 civs? [19:15] no [19:15] * rumpo_kid goes to cook dinner for the kids [19:15] 956 people in the forums :) [19:15] * rumpo_kid has quit IRC (Quit: Client exited) [19:15] Hmm, I hope they did make it moddable. [19:15] It'd suck for it to be hardcoded just so they can sell the expansions. [19:15] They should join the chat [19:15] could someone tell me, by measurements of Warp Speed, how cool is Spock? [19:15] warp 9.975 [19:15] Nerds [19:15] you can add more civs if you want. I don't know if you can play more at the same time, but I'm sure at least the SDK can fix that if you can't [19:16] I cant even play civ 3 [19:16] lol Solver [19:16] right now [19:16] I tried [19:16] we dont have aload issue but should i close the OT just to keep the tradition going? :) [19:16] couldnt get into it [19:16] Yes :p [19:16] solver would've preferred voice overs by the smoking man [19:16] but not until it ACTUALLY comes out =/ [19:16] Nah I like Nimoy [19:16] It's just that I've never seen him [19:17] Does he say anything that is in reference to star trek, whatsoever? [19:17] like, maybe something about Logic? [19:17] probably hidden as an easter egg somewhere [19:17] don't think so [19:17] I feel like getting drunk [19:17] makes sense that he wouldnt, as he hasnt always loved his alter-ego [19:18] Yeah he killed him off.... [19:18] exactly, it would just tick him off if they asked him to do that [19:18] Nimoy was a pretty good narrator for that one show, the voiceovers should be good. [19:18] I have about a dozen comic books that he wrote [19:18] they werent bad [19:18] they are [19:20] so... in all honesty, ICS is still in right? Your just trying to scare the crap out of Yin [19:20] ? [19:20] I'm not a strategy guru but as far as I ICS is dead as a dodo [19:20] * Narcio has joined #Apolyton [19:20] I thought it didnt work in [19:20] civ [19:21] people wanted tight [19:21] close cities [19:21] ICS'd dead completely [19:21] Well, maybe the top players can pull of something similar [19:21] People like Aeson, although I doubt that too [19:21] since you have to pay a per turn maintenance on settlers and workers, it does just about kill ICS [19:21] Certainly not us mortals [19:21] lol [19:21] so ho wmany cities we looking at [19:21] * VetLegion has joined #apolyton [19:21] 5 10 [19:21] hehe [19:21] so if i understand correctly... [19:21] how many cities for what? [19:22] like [19:22] in early ages, its almost impossible to get a large empire going [19:22] is around optimal [19:22] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> hummm [19:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [19:22] but with technological advances, its feasible to control a huge portion of land? [19:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [19:22] I know you cant be exact [19:22] the number changes over the course of the game [19:22] ninot, yes [19:22] So is there a later portion of the game where established empires go on a colonization spree to grab up the remaining land? [19:22] i dont know if I like that or not [19:22] also, the cost for producing settlers and workers has increased.....AND.....you can't even really use workers until you research the techs needed for what you want them to do [19:22] ouch [19:22] give your cities time to become self-sufficient and in the long run you can control as a big an empire as you want, but it takes time to get to that point [19:23] how many of you will you play multiplayer? [19:23] i was thinking before that it might be cool that unless you really really gear yourself to war, it would be economically impossible to conquer the world [19:23] I think it will be like that ninot [19:23] It depends how good the mp code is really. [19:23] I'm on dialup. [19:23] Multiplayer is a big part of the game for me [19:23] dialup [19:23] I thought that died with the do do [19:23] not for me [19:23] to much time [19:23] Nope, we're still alive and kicking. [19:23] * Tyranthraxus has left #apolyton [19:24] A do do in a giant hamster wheel power my modem infact. [19:24] POLY PARTY!!! WOO!!! [19:24] <[NL]Thrax|Food> *burp* [19:24] <[NL]Thrax|Food> sory :) [19:24] free eBEER! [19:24] * [NL]Thrax|Food is now known as [NL]Thrax [19:24] ahhhh so thats the sound dodo's make that high pitch squealing sound when you connect [19:24] woot :) [19:24] <[NL]Thrax> ello peeps :) [19:24] how many countries can be in a single multiplayer game? Civ3 had an annoying limit at 8. [19:24] root beer too? [19:24] Yep. [19:24] * VladAntlerkovWFR has joined #apolyton [19:24] if you want to either build or conquer a large empire, you will have to plan for it. it's possible, but it will go at the expense of other things (science, great people, whatever) and it will take careful timing [19:24] * VetLegion has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [19:24] * snoopy369 is happy :) [19:24] hay guyz [19:24] lo vlad [19:25] so like... [19:25] I like small compact super cities [19:25] narcio, 12 I believe [19:25] if you have an empire like Germany did in 1938.... [19:25] that can produce shit so fast [19:25] conquering western europe and russia would quickly lead to a collapse? [19:25] thats a little better i suppose [19:25] you will fall like germany did in 1942? [19:25] well 46 [19:25] 44 [19:25] <[NL]Thrax> lol [19:25] 1983 [19:25] split the difference [19:25] ninot, if you have modern technology, expanding fast should be entirely possible, but again, with careful planning [19:25] :shrug: [19:25] Germany was already almost bankrupt in 1939... [19:26] Just called EB. Not today. :( [19:26] <[NL]Thrax> :( [19:26] everyone tells everyone that [19:26] Gamestop STILL won't answer their phone =/ [19:26] <[NL]Thrax> am i the only, eurpeon or dutchie here? [19:26] How hard is it to keep a newly conquered city happy? [19:26] but they have to rain on there own parade by calling [19:26] I preordered mine a week ago. Set it to get here within ten days of release... [19:26] I'm Dutch [19:26] <[NL]Thrax> \o/ [19:26] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> im dutch too [19:26] and there are plenty of other Europeans: Markos, Solver, Lemmy (also Dutch) [19:26] <[NL]Thrax> My EB packages is still on "open" status :/ [19:26] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> infact my dad used to teach locustus [19:26] of course, I sent it to my college address, which means that it'll have a three-week head start on consuming my existence [19:27] <[NL]Thrax> cewl [19:27] ah, forgot Tomcat, another Dutchie :) [19:27] http://www.kalikokottage.com/civ3/sullla/civ4_walk_1.html [19:27] and a Tukker too, to boot :b: [19:27] <[NL]Thrax> lol [19:27] ff112: saw that, it be w00tly [19:27] * Chris has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [19:27] <[NL]Thrax> i'm prolly worse [19:27] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> first walktrough already :o [19:27] wow, they answered the phone ;) [19:27] and have their ups shipment [19:27] so we're going to find out momentarily ... :) [19:27] *in a moment [19:28] snoopy, which store, and where? [19:28] http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/pressrelease_02.htm [19:28] snoopy where you form [19:29] Here's what the press is saying about Sid Meier's Civilization IV: [19:29] "The only reason to stop playing Civilization IV is to tell other people just how good the game is." - IGN [19:29] my stolen quote is on the official press release! :D [19:29] sigh, they will have it tomorrow [19:29] that's yours? [19:29] lol MarkG [19:29] heh [19:29] sue them for plagiarism [19:30] :lol: [19:30] um [19:30] you dont count, cuz you arent from Macedonia [19:30] didn't MarkG plagiarize that? :) [19:30] details [19:30] ACS:MarkG, if there's no reference to you, SUE them ;-) [19:30] he's what i wrote weeks before IGN [19:30] mere details [19:30] " Well over a month after my self-made deadline I've got to admit that I find playing Civ4 more fun than writing about it. But JUST FOR YOU I dropped Civ4 to write this! :D " [19:30] thats cool [19:30] anyone see they added ooc to the game [19:30] OCC? [19:30] yes [19:30] and always war [19:30] <[NL]Thrax> i hope the us still has some of those SR-71 planes ready to drop me off a package here :) [19:30] who od you work for markg [19:30] oh, it's a paraphrase, well, then forget suing IGN ;-) [19:31] i work for Apolytoners :) [19:31] http://civilization4.net/3/170/ [19:31] grendel, it's the same meaning! i demand 1 mil $ [19:31] How does trade work in civ4? Thats one thing I found lacking in Civ3. Even Call to Power (which I didn't like very much) seemed to have a more innovative / interesting trade system. [19:31] or the image of the cd of the first civ4 expansion [19:31] you can't claim ideas Markos :p [19:32] Markos can :p [19:32] but it was mine [19:32] ACS_MarkG: ...and your words are backed by nuculear weapons LOL [19:32] and i rarely get any :D [19:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [19:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [19:32] resources trade works pretty much the same as in civ3. there's also gold trade, but that's fully automated [19:32] it's my precious [19:32] <[NL]Thrax> i must say with all those reviews and previous games..i feel like i read the entire manual already [19:32] how does gold trade work? [19:32] hehe [19:32] like commerce in SMAC? [19:32] or like regular trade in Civ2? [19:32] or something completely different? [19:33] trade routes are automatically established, no effort involved. [19:33] no idea how it worked in SMAC [19:33] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> I think it should be based on ctp [19:33] essentially civ2 trade routes but w/o caravans? [19:33] why do all the girls in the Genital Herpes ads look attractive? Its such a damn shame [19:33] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> but not a fixed route [19:33] yeah, basically, snoopy [19:33] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> and not that easy to blockade [19:33] ooh [19:34] So are trade routes per city limited? [19:34] Ninot, have you ever seen an unattractive woman in an advertisement? [19:34] <[NL]Thrax> sure [19:34] <[NL]Thrax> 40+ lady looking for... [19:34] though the routes can change over the course of the game, if more profitable ones become available. I don't know the details of the algorithm because well, it's automated, not much you can do about it anyway :) except research techs that make more routes available [19:35] <[NL]Thrax> fill in the rest there...YUK [19:35] lol Thrax [19:35] how do you mean limited? [19:35] Some wonders also give you more trade routes [19:35] Sid will be on G4 TV here in about 5-10 minutes guys. [19:35] Kailes[G]: yes, Bild (yellow press in Germany) used rather ugly people for selling their 'newspaper' a year ago... [19:35] unattractive women are always in Wallmart ads :) [19:35] He talks about Civ4. [19:35] do trade routes just give you money? [19:35] yeah, wonders, techs, civics, buildings... [19:35] :o G4TV?!? IM WATCHIN DAT! [19:35] Arsonide, that's g4 tv? [19:35] ah, i remember that Grendel [19:36] Right now they're talking about the Warriors [19:36] but Sid will be on in 5 minutes or so [19:36] aeh, "what's" G4tv? [19:36] Gamer television [19:36] cable gaming channel? [19:36] as in, in civ 2, each city was capped at 3 trade routes. (or maybe it was just that three routes were displayed?) [19:36] what show is he on?? [19:36] What show are they going on? [19:36] I don't have a tv [19:36] Arsonide, is it streamed on the net? [19:37] I don't know [19:37] VladAntlerkovWFR: when Civ4 is installed, I don't have a life ;-) [19:37] vlad, as said, the number of routes per city depends on techs, buildings, wonders, civics, etc. usually 1-5 or so [19:37] He's on G4 The Show [19:37] or whatever [19:38] * SirOsis is now known as Sirosis|afk [19:38] Ah, that one. [19:38] got it [19:38] Locutus - do you know how easy it is to sea- or land-blockade trade routes? [19:38] I think he'l only be talking about Pirates! [19:39] I can't read. [19:39] (well, actually, I can read, but I'm just too lazy to) [19:39] ie do you need 1 battleship near the city to stop searoutes, or a full surrounding, or ... ;) [19:39] bah [19:39] i have Call for Help on here [19:39] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> blargh i want to have tv channels like that [19:39] damn Canada [19:39] :lol: [19:39] according to Soren there's a naval blockade feature but I've never seen it in action [19:40] is anyone bothered [19:40] about ehat? [19:40] *what [19:40] by the fact they dont have an attack and defense stat anymore [19:40] no, that's a silly thing to be bothered about [19:40] it kinda is [19:41] I can get used to it. [19:41] cause some units are defense orinated [19:41] i never liked that big different between attack and def in some units in civ3 [19:41] <[NL]Thrax> im already glad navy gets a more powerfull role [19:41] how would such units keep that role? [19:41] whether you have attack 1 and defence 2 or strength 1 and +100% defense bonus is exactly the same... [19:41] ah [19:41] "Do you ever worry that this strategy game won't appeal to tweens of today that like FPS's etc?" "I play those games, but I think there is a lot of appeal to the variety of games today, *sid outlines how handhelds of today are ideal for strategy games*" [19:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [19:42] "As a designer we try not to put our own opinions/prejudices into the game with religion etc, we try not to impose our philosophies on the player so it's not a political statement, the player decides his own philosophies etc." [19:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [19:42] ohh didnt know that locutus [19:42] <[NL]Thrax> handhelds? like mobile phones? like civIV on my mobile? :p [19:42] like [19:42] psp [19:42] ds [19:42] the ds [19:42] <[NL]Thrax> :) [19:42] is very cool [19:42] That would kill me [19:42] if you get a chance [19:42] for most units seperate defense and attack values don't make sense anyway. after all, a phalanx was used for open battle, not attack or defense [19:42] yep [19:43] yea but [19:43] and only failed when the romans tried to use it on the hills/mountains and realized it sucked for that kind of battle :) [19:43] you didnt just charge phalanx at some horse men [19:43] yeah, Locutus, thats what I've always thought [19:43] "What do you think of the less savory parts of the game like slavery, etc." "Civilization doesn't dwell on those, we try to focus on keeping the people happy, technology etc. But those are historical facts. Having real world elements in the game, adds to the depth and flavor of the game." [19:43] hated how my hoplites coudln't do much in combat [19:43] FF, exactly [19:43] phalanx gets no bonus against horses i'd think in offensive combat ... no? [19:43] i'm just guessing, but ... [19:44] I'd have to see what units get what adjustments [19:44] ff, does that matter? the tactical details of battles are abstracted anyway [19:44] yeah [19:44] "We noticed you took out the terror espionage actions, is that related to real world recent events?" "*dodges question and outlines civilization feature list*" [19:44] lol [19:44] your phalanx could march wherever they wanted... [19:44] <[NL]Thrax> no more plant a nuke in enemy city? [19:44] I thought that they already took them out in civ 3 [19:44] and cavalry would be afraid :P [19:45] Yeah but G4 doesn't pay attention to strategy games, they like FPS's etc. [19:45] phalanx always gets a bonus against horse. in a real battle, the phalanx would likely dig in and let the horse attack, but that doesn't mean they can't challenge it to a battle on a strategic level [19:45] exactly [19:45] they would stay close to archers [19:45] true [19:46] "Are you interested in doing console games more often?" "The XBOX work on Pirates was really liberating. Many of our games live naturally on the console, like Pirates, but all work on the PC. The consoles are getting powerful enough to do the strategy games etc." [19:46] or other units that are weak to cavlery [19:46] People need to mod back in poison water supply and planting nukes. [19:46] ff, actually they'd be protecting the archers ... decent cavalry aren't too vulnerable to archers [19:46] ah, ok i see [19:46] OOO [19:46] slam on consoles [19:46] "Do you prefer XBOX 360 or PS3?" "*generic answer* We like the evolution of technology" [19:46] * Sith_Lurker has joined #Apolyton [19:46] that's all [19:47] thx for the transcript [19:47] ok [19:47] cool cool cant believe nothing on civ 4 [19:47] Actually he talked about Civ4 quite a bit when he dodged the questions. [19:47] * Sith_Lurker is now known as Sir_Og [19:47] * VladAntlerkovWFR is now known as VladAntlerkovAFK [19:48] But we know everything he said, general stuff like "Now it's 3D, multiplayer" etc. [19:48] Grendel, have you ordered the game from america, or are you waiting for the european release [19:50] Aside from the differences in units like promotions etc, how has overall combat in Civ4 changed? I know there was some mention that large stacks are vulnerable, etc. What else has changed? [19:50] Do armies still exist? [19:50] no [19:51] though you can group units [19:51] by group, what do you mean? [19:51] No armies, and combined arms are important. [19:51] pretty much all changes of the combat system have been published I think [19:51] they just move together? [19:51] im expecting grouping is to move units around faster [19:51] Massing one unit type now is a good way to lose from what I hear. [19:51] yes, you can move and give orders to a group of units, but they will still fight 1vs1 [19:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [19:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [19:53] are conquered cities hard to keep happy? [19:53] i'm a big civ fan, but haven't had much time lately. I just a week ago or so found out that Civ4 was coming out. Haven't read everything yet. Where is a good article on the combat system? [19:54] i'm not much of a warmonger. i haven't had much trouble with the few cities I did conquer, but you should ask someone else [19:54] civilization4.net > info [19:54] and also the hands-on reviews on the same link [19:55] can some of you invite some of your friends so we can pass the 40 people mark? :) [19:55] hehe [19:55] i actually will probably leave shortly ;) [19:55] work and all [19:55] tho i'll leave this open for a half hour just to help ... :) [19:56] Hmm, Dan and John aren't on, but Zopp is (though away) ... maybe he can join ;) [19:56] and desperate housewives starts in 30 mins, so I'll be AFK for an hour as well, though I'll stay logged in for you ;) [19:56] Ninot: The 1v1 combat statement is misleading. [19:56] It is 1v1 combat, but it's a lot faster, because if you have a stack of 3 fight a stack of 3, they will pair up and fight 1v1 so it's over quickly. [19:56] rofl [19:57] They are fighting 1v1 but all at the same time [19:57] Markos!! Forum descriptions :eek:? [19:57] yeah, noticed that too. it's ugly [19:57] :) [19:57] lol [19:57] Hey, Locutus once said that "you can't be a worse player than Markos". Yay! [19:57] huh? [19:57] when?? [19:57] locutus?!?!?!? [19:57] hehehe [19:58] i'm betrayed [19:58] Kick Ban. [19:58] :p [19:58] If you didn't see it, that's good :p [19:58] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> kick ban and give me his powers ;) [19:58] Then again, you really can't be any worse than Markos :cute: [19:59] is it true that Markos lost on chieftain? [19:59] When we played Civ4, Markos got scared and was just building tons of Archers to defend vs. me and I still kicked his butt :) [19:59] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2314&p=6 omfg wtf bbq [19:59] :lol: [19:59] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> im sure i lost on chieftan when i played civ2 for the first time [19:59] archers :b: [20:00] i think they're my favorite civ3 unit [20:00] though i do like horsemen as well ... my first vanilla civ3 game i had no iron [20:00] Can someone email me their nail clippers. I can't find mine and it's getting bad, I can barely type. [20:00] Ninot, no that was me actually :o [20:00] and didn't know about iron anyway ... so i built about 100 horsemen and fought huge battles with them :) [20:00] lol [20:00] i'm certain i'll lose on noble first time up [20:00] i had just goten civ4 and we started too close.... :) [20:00] won't happen to me again though, I thought I could pull off an ICS :) [20:00] i just don't think i'm going to play on chieftain, too many bad habits ;) [20:01] Can't you still do ICS with "suburbs" [20:01] Towns, hamlets etc [20:01] strange solver didnt ask to be oped yet ;) [20:01] snoopy check your mail [20:01] checking [20:01] towns are tile imps, not cities [20:02] rofl ... thunderbird decided your mail was junk [20:02] i love tbird's junk mail finder [20:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [20:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [20:02] * [Derek] has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [20:02] Locutus: What do they do? [20:02] ad commerce i believe [20:02] they give gold and in the case of towns I think also some food [20:03] One of the overall end results of the Civ3 system that I didn't like was that your power was essentially linearly proportional to the amount of land you controlled. Is Civ4 any different compared to Civ3 in this regard? [20:03] Yeah [20:04] no [20:04] mail etc etc [20:04] oh yes, misready oyour quesiton [20:04] Well yeah according to previews [20:04] question [20:04] can a very well run 2 city empire compete with a average run 5 city empire? [20:04] Basically if you have a lot of land, your cities will all be primitive and you'll have less technology and stuff [20:04] yes [20:04] 2 vs 5? yes. 2 vs 20? no [20:04] well run = developed [20:04] email addy added so it won't junk you any more ;) [20:05] 2 vs 20 is like Jamaica V USA [20:05] lol [20:05] More like Tibet vs Mexico [20:05] i'd assume that a 20 city empire is stronger than a 2 city because if it survives a single turn or two, it must have more gold/resource generating ability ... [20:05] a fight I'd like to see, btw [20:05] thanks snoopy [20:05] :lol: I'm still amused at the junk thing :) I find the weirdest stuff in there [20:06] i found an ad for child porn in my junk folder a while ago [20:06] disturbed me [20:06] I'd paste 3 lines from my junk mail folder but I'd get banned [20:06] i must go to work now but i'll be back ~12am (6am gmt) if there be anything ye need me to do by then... :) [20:07] I get so much junk mail that if I sign up for a new forum and it goes to the junk, I have to go half way down the page to find it, and this is right after I signed up, so 1-2 minute delay. [20:07] hehe [20:08] i don't get quite that much, maybe 20-30 a day [20:08] but Tbird needs help figuring out junk ;) [20:08] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> a add for child pron wtf? [20:08] i tried using an advanced bayesian filter, but it caused weird problems with the pop-mail things [20:08] servers* lol i'm tired [20:09] i've had some firaxis related mails go to junk :) [20:09] lol [20:09] i've finally learned just to add people to addy book the moment one of their emails goes to junk [20:09] rather than assuming they won't in the future ... [20:10] i've been so fed up with email that i've started white-listing.... [20:10] So wait Mark, when are those Persistant Server things going up? [20:10] Mid november, late december? [20:10] * Rhye has joined #apolyton [20:10] PITBOSS: december is last word on those, i believe [20:10] Rhye :) hello [20:10] hello lads [20:10] as in rhye's expansion pack right? :) [20:10] Pitboss? [20:10] Is that the word for persistant server? [20:11] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2314&p=8 omg an incest forum? help me god. [20:11] yes [20:11] pitboss = persistant server [20:11] ?? [20:11] hey Rhye, I see you found us :) [20:12] so, when does the party begin? [20:12] hey rhye [20:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [20:12] is there something to eat? [20:12] Well ... probably tomorrow =/ [20:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [20:12] though 5pm EST is the official chat :) [20:12] we have eCAKE [20:12] eCHIPS [20:12] and eBEER [20:12] officially we start at 11, Rhye [20:12] AND eROOTBEER :D [20:12] i'll go with eBEER then [20:12] hmm...how can i get these eFOODS? [20:12] * snoopy369 seems to be the only teetotaller in here =/ [20:12] so make sure you get substituted at halftime, then you can join us in time ;) [20:13] i prefer eCERES [20:13] i can't [20:13] we're just 5 tonight [20:13] no reserves [20:13] I want some eSoda [20:13] then pretend to break a leg ;) [20:13] So Mark does the release party get postponed to tomorrow? :( [20:13] i'll hurry the shower [20:14] officially it lasts 2 hours though, so you'll probably be able to catch part of the chat [20:14] great [20:14] and unofficially it'll probably go on all night, it usually does... [20:14] Are people from Firaxis coming? [20:14] yes [20:14] btw, isn't there going the be a CFC chat in the mean time?? [20:14] Oh. [20:15] I didn't know it was that big, I thought it was just a chat with Mark. [20:15] Since I can't do anything else, I pick the peace option and send my warrior on his way. Also keep in mind that I can't enter Hatshepsut's territory to scout it out without declaring war, so I skirt her borders for now. Borders mean a lot more in this game than they did in Civ3. [20:15] and Solver [20:15] lol [20:15] don't mention that foul C-word :shame: ;) [20:15] Yep [20:15] This is a chat with me [20:15] The Ruler of the Europe [20:15] C-FC? [20:15] CFC [20:15] CFC [20:15] CFC [20:15] :lol: dream on, baby, dream on :p [20:15] Banned [20:15] Ban! [20:15] muahauahauhuaha [20:15] Locutus, what, don't you know that I am really the secretary general of NATO? [20:16] C'mon atleast kick :( [20:16] :lol: [20:16] * Arsonide is disappointed. [20:16] :lol: then I'd expect your Dutch to be better :p [20:16] NATO people use dutch? [20:16] well, the current SecGen is Dutch, so he does ;) [20:16] I didn't realize the netherlands was a significant part of NATO ... [20:16] * snoopy369 ducks [20:16] My Russian is enough. And the German "hande hoch". That's all you need to rule the world. [20:16] lol, didn't know that ;) [20:17] I played with a dutch guy on Pandora Tomorrow MP once. He got really mad when I accidentally pronounced "dutch" "deutsche" or whatever. [20:17] ok i MUST go to work now ... [20:17] yeah, those westerners do that [20:17] * snoopy369 waves goodbye and hopes game is available tomorrow :) [20:17] He gave me flak about it for like 3 hours though [20:17] * Snotty has joined #apolyton [20:17] quite rabidly anti-german [20:17] * snoopy369 has quit IRC (Quit: Snoopy369 doesn't have Civ4 :() [20:17] alright guys [20:17] * Orion has joined #Apolyton [20:17] * Darkslayer has joined #Apolyton [20:18] theres like over 600 guests brosing poly [20:18] looks like you're gonna get your 40 after Markos :) [20:18] browsing [20:18] Need to get them in here. [20:18] wows up [20:18] We should all get voice before all the minions come in here for the chat, so we can talk when you guys moderate the channel. [20:18] +m [20:19] er...what? [20:19] +m is basically what they do for most dev chats [20:20] it disallows all talking except for people with ops and voice [20:20] Everybody spams questions at one of the ops, and he relays questions to another op, and that op asks the questions in the channel. [20:20] anyone recieved their civ 4 yet? [20:21] Yes, us betas :cute: [20:21] * VJ has joined #apolyton [20:21] teh zomg! [20:21] Does anyone have the game yet? [20:21] firaxians, firaxis consultants (that's me and half a dozen others), beta testers and game reviewers, but that's all so far it seems... [20:21] yeah yeah, don't make us jealous Solver. [20:21] that copy-paste option is going to come in real handy tonight... [20:21] Locutus, really half a dozen? Isak, Rhye, Friedrich, Sirian, who am I forgetting? [20:21] Dale [20:21] locutus has that bound to every key so he just has to slam his head into the keyboard repeatedly all night [20:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [20:22] :lol: [20:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [20:22] so it's half a dozen in total. who's counting? [20:22] Settler seems to be having lots of problems today... [20:23] settler is a bot [20:23] I turned off joins/parts [20:23] so I can't see him [20:23] I think I should bind that answer to a key as well :) [20:24] Alias "/newb Message Here" [20:24] I think you should put it int he log in screen [20:24] something like that... [20:24] I hope it attracts some new blood to apolyton [20:24] * aeson has joined #Apolyton [20:24] otf debates have been the same for the last... I think 4 years [20:24] markos, we hit 40 :dance: [20:25] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> yays [20:25] * Narcio dances [20:25] How many DLs? [20:25] in a chatroom? :hmmm: [20:25] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> thats the 4th channel im in today who has at least 40 users [20:25] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> yay! [20:25] Well I had Civ3 forever and I knew of Apolyton's existence, but I never understood how to play Civ. [20:25] I wonder what the first Civ4 mod is going to be. [20:26] * Narcio would dance more if I had Civ4 already [20:26] So I got persistent a few months ago and learned all the rules and such in anticipation of Civ4, so yeah...now I want it a lot. [20:26] I have the main theme looping. [20:26] well... if someone has two PCs and connections... [20:26] thats sad [20:26] It is [20:26] were did youg et that aronside [20:26] * Canuck has joined #Apolyton [20:26] hey Civers [20:26] 41! [20:26] It's on civ fanatics I believe [20:26] quit the crowd [20:26] hey Canuck [20:26] He's a canadan! [20:27] Kick Ban! [20:27] hey Locutus [20:27] ./kb arsonide [20:27] fine and you? [20:27] whoops :cute: [20:27] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> canadan! [20:27] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> omg canadan! [20:27] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +o Solver [20:27] I'm Canadian as well. [20:27] CanuckSoldier at your service [20:27] They live in Canadia. [20:27] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> im really bored atm [20:27] Same here [20:28] blame the canucks for the delay [20:28] Clearly, this chat needs proportionally less Canadians and more Finns [20:28] Someone put up a Soldat server. [20:28] CS won't fit in the opera irc limitation though [20:28] * eg|victrix has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [20:28] Soldat! [20:28] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> i dont sue the irc function of opera [20:28] ok well if I see Maxfin I'll get him in here [20:28] <{Core}Tomcat_ha> actually i do not even know how to start that up [20:28] but he's playing WoW now [20:28] Is Soldat a FPS? [20:28] No [20:29] It's a shooter [20:29] but it's 2D [20:29] It's free, and it's 10 megs [20:29] go get it [20:29] mp-oriented? [20:29] yeah [20:29] 40 :Party: [20:29] Yeah, someone host a server. [20:29] * VladAntlerkovAFK is now known as VladAntlerkovWFR [20:30] where do you get it arsonide? [20:30] www.soldat.pl [20:30] ty [20:30] nice to see you're up to speed, Markos :p [20:30] ive got soldat :b: its good , fast paced! [20:30] Yeah, we just need someone with good upload to host a server. [20:31] whose playing wow [20:31] I just switched from DSL to cable, so my upload went down [20:31] and how do I get the opeing song to civ 5 [20:31] http://www.civfanatics.net/downloads/civ4/music/BabaYetu.mp3 [20:31] Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I just called my electronics Boutique. They said they won't be getting civ4 till tomorow! :cries: [20:31] civ5? :) [20:31] Every EB is saying that. [20:32] not quite there yet [20:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [20:32] * Rasbelin has joined #apolyton [20:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [20:32] Rise and shine. [20:32] I translated a bit of that song btw, it's not gibberish. [20:32] ok, I'm off to watch Desperate Housewifes, will be here in the commercial breaks but otherwise AFK [20:32] ... for the next hour [20:33] it's the lord's prayer in swalili [20:33] * Makahlua has quit IRC (Quit: ) [20:33] Yeah, with a lot of modifications [20:33] true [20:34] Desperate Housewives [20:34] What is that thing I wonder? [20:34] I think it's a TV-show [20:34] * Makahlua has joined #Apolyton [20:35] Yeah, tv show. [20:35] a new version of sex and the city ... in a way [20:35] a very bad tv show at that [20:35] http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B00005RYKE001001/0/002-3403623-3592866 Sample of another sung version of "Baba Yetu" from amazon [20:36] :O :o ! My ebgames order shows shipped :o [20:36] !!!1! [20:36] So does mine. :D [20:36] hi vovan [20:36] man [20:36] that song is good [20:36] Hey :) [20:36] anyone who thinks DH is a bad show has no sense of humour :p [20:36] I hope I get the sound trakc now [20:38] and it's nothing like sex and the city, that's just network PR talking to draw in their audience [20:39] I wish I could find an english translation of this and I could translate the whole song, cause I know which parts of it are where. [20:39] * Rysz has joined #apolyton [20:40] Aha, struck gold. [20:41] soooo.... are we there yet? has anybody got it? and how many times has this been asked in the last 12 hours? [20:41] well I'm just home for lunch catch you guys in a few hours [20:41] * rumpo_kid has joined #apolyton [20:42] * Canuck has left #Apolyton [20:42] Hi all - [20:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [20:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [20:42] not yet in my hands but EBgames says it's shipped :D [20:42] this is the worst release date ever [20:42] Ninot: Yeah! Evah! [20:43] has anyone recieved Civ IV today? Or is it tomorrow earliest? [20:43] tomrrow [20:43] tomrrow is only a day a WAYYYYYYYYY [20:43] tomrow tomrow [20:44] Well, I'm not in a hurry. I expect it to need the first patch to be okay. Many things speak for that. Always good to be abit sceptic and learn a few lessons from how things were with Civ III. [20:44] lol [20:44] In the mean time. Someone still want to play soldat? ;) I got a server going. :) [20:44] * Rhye has quit IRC (Quit: ) [20:44] My CIv will get here tomooorw, so I gotta hang on til tomorooow, there'll be Civ..... ^^ [20:44] i'm gonan play css :P [20:45] Vovan: Hi! Long time, no type. :) [20:45] is it *SURE* it will be out tomorrow? [20:45] Hey, hey, Rasbelin! :) [20:45] vovan: I dl'ed it, gotta install it [20:45] How goes it? :) [20:46] Well, quite fine. Not much into anything Civ, but more into civil/geek rights activism and copyright related stuff. [20:47] Haha, I haven't been much into civ stuff lately either, but something tells me that might change when Civ4 arrives into my hands. :D I think I haven't been so excited about a game since forever. :) [20:47] Vovan: It's installed and running. Where's the server? [20:48] VJ: 128.61.42.129:23073 [20:49] I wish I hadn't selected the "deliver in ten days" option. [20:51] im up for some soldat [20:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [20:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [20:53] who's this setller guy joining and quitting al the time? [20:54] mybe we got a revolving door [20:54] (don't mind the typo's... my keyboard likes to repeat itself...) [20:54] lol @ rumpo :) [20:54] fat fingers cause my typos [20:55] * Ennet|Nadish has quit IRC (Quit: ) [20:56] rysz: i bet its some bot checking stats for apolyton site [20:56] Correct. [20:56] * ChaosLord has quit IRC (Quit: BBL) [20:56] cool, that makes sense ofcourse [20:56] (if you visit apolyton, you can se how many are in the chat channel, who, etc) [20:56] * ACS_MarkG changes topic to 'Civ4 Release Party in 2 hours! - 5PM est (10PM gmt) ' [20:57] yes, I noticed [20:57] 5pm est? I think that should be 9PM GMT? [20:57] * ACS_MarkG changes topic to 'Civ4 Release Party NOW! - (official start 5PM est (10PM gmt)) ' [20:57] yeah, some release party :rollseyes [20:58] or is day light saving already changed back to winter on the eastcoast? [20:59] it's in two hours, unless my timezone math is off [21:00] Yeah, I've tried to follow the song, but after careful analyzation this is not the Lords Prayer. It shares a lot of the lyrics, but whoever wrote it has his own lyrics in there as well. [21:00] yeah we will officialy start partying in 2 hours [21:00] yes, two hours... currently 2100h Central European Summer Time... so 1900h GMT, so 2h later is 2100h GMT (9PM for Americans ;)) [21:00] we are now unofficial partying, get your hands of your that chips! [21:00] will there be ladies at this party? ;) [21:00] only digital ;) [21:01] i pulled the old "does her name end in .jpg" joke at a friends house on sunday [21:01] caught people offguard, tuns of laughs [21:01] good times [21:01] Wait, nevermind found another translation that does follow what I'm looking at. [21:02] * Arsonide is intrigued again. [21:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [21:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [21:02] why doesn't he just settle *g* and update real-time? [21:03] Yeah it's not the lords prayer, it's quotes from the Bible, Matthew's chapter, in Swahili. [21:04] Particularly when it changes in the middle and they do that loud chanting, they say "Ufalme wako ufike" which was annoying me, because in the lords prayer it's "Ufalme wako uje". [21:04] Are the restrictions on beta-testers over? [21:04] * rumpo_kid has to go again - Bye [21:04] So, another mystery solved. [21:04] * rumpo_kid has left #apolyton [21:04] Now I just have to find out what quotes they're using, and I can translate it to english. [21:04] :P [21:04] But first I need a 2 liter of mountain dew. bbs [21:05] Eli - dpends on what you want [21:06] CD images? [21:06] hehehehe [21:08] I want the txt file with the voiceovers :) [21:08] Although I wouldnt mind getting the cd image too. :cute: [21:08] we all prefer mr spock [21:09] what did McCoy used to call him? [21:10] green blodded (insert insult here) ? [21:10] *blooded [21:10] pointy-eard * [21:12] * Sirosis|afk is now known as SirOsis [21:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [21:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [21:15] I don't have the game but I've got my first 100 turns figured out. :) [21:15] lol :) [21:15] i dont think a single person has purchased and received a copy of the game yet [21:16] some has recieved tracking numbers on civfanatics, for delivery tomorrow [21:16] tell us Sir, heighten our anticipation :) [21:17] I called EB. Tomorrow it is [21:18] * sadaiya_g has joined #apolyton [21:18] Well, I think I'll play as Kublai Khan [21:18] hey room [21:18] i am 22 male from chicago, college student / part time worker... [21:18] ok [21:18] This isn't a pickup party [21:18] i used to play the orignial civilization... and am a fan of the series [21:19] brb... gimme 5-10 minutes... [21:19] I am trying to get MarkG drunk so he'll op me though. [21:19] lol :) [21:19] No such luck [21:19] hey, Solver's still awake [21:19] Maybe Solver then. [21:20] * SirOsis hands Sover a shot of Ouzo [21:20] Solver isn't greek? :P [21:20] Still can drink Uozo! [21:20] that's true, although I only drink Ouzo in Greek restaurants [21:21] I just want to know if MarkG breaks plates over his head [21:21] (come to think of it... last time I had Ouzo, I was further away from Greece than ever... in Manhattan on Halloween's Eve....:/ [21:21] well, at last it was a greek restaurant :P [21:21] * Trip has joined #apolyton [21:22] hey trip [21:22] yo [21:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [21:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [21:22] He's awake, yes [21:22] * Krill has joined #Apolyton [21:23] He's me [21:23] Oh well [21:23] Buggers [21:23] Hello one and all [21:23] * Hamil has joined #apolyton [21:23] How empty would've been it in here if Civ had been shipped and received today? [21:23] good evening everybody [21:23] anyone got a log of chat for the past 6 hours or so? [21:23] I see not much has changed in here... even with 40 people nobody talks ;) [21:24] yeah well [21:24] some of us are polite [21:24] :p [21:24] Last 6 hrs? Not much happened [21:24] only the settler moving and out... that's about the most activity we have over here :( [21:24] Hi Trip [21:25] Tip, how is life treating you nowadays? [21:25] trip, rather [21:25] SirOsis? what are your further plans? except playing as Kublai Khan [21:25] haha [21:25] I'm doing well [21:25] damnit, I can't spell today [21:25] Good to here [21:25] Oh, we have Trip [21:25] just doing stuff [21:25] ;) [21:25] Attack the Firaxian! [21:25] Who? Where? [21:25] what firaxian? [21:25] I'll buy him a shot [21:25] Trip! [21:25] Trip... [21:25] We should take him hostage [21:26] And demand a free copy for all Apolytoners from Soren [21:26] * ChaosLord has joined #apolyton [21:26] :) [21:26] wait, Trip? [21:26] he's at Firaxis? [21:26] didn't know that [21:26] it's a conspiracy [21:26] I'll settle for the copy I paid for TODAY! [21:26] and on that note [21:26] * VladAntlerkovWFR is now known as VladAntlerkovAFK [21:26] :D [21:26] lol [21:26] Trip's a Firaxian, yeah [21:26] Which means he does nothing but gets to drink Soren's coffee while he's coding [21:27] i'm back [21:27] great! welcome Trip :) [21:27] something like that [21:27] thank you [21:27] Oh, and he served us beta testers snacks :) [21:27] You know Trip, I love the stats screen :) [21:27] Solver: Erm, well, something. Yeah, good evening or something alike that. [21:27] Evening Ras [21:28] I like stats also [21:28] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Trip [21:28] I think the demographics graphs are better though [21:28] hurrah, I can speak now [21:28] * Cyclotron has joined #Apolyton [21:28] Not really when you see the world average GNP is 150 and you have 70 [21:28] yeah [21:29] Demographics give me creeps ever since Fried showed me the difference between us [21:29] but you would not do that badly in MFG... [21:29] just have to practice more then ;) [21:29] he's tough to beat [21:29] Like impossible ;) [21:29] It's not impossible to match him economically, and make him attack you... [21:30] Fired [21:30] :shrug: Did that once [21:30] Fried is a beta tester? [21:30] A Firaxis consultant, in fact [21:30] MP King [21:31] that's number 2... 4 to go ;) [21:31] Talks a lot of shit too. :) But he can back it up [21:31] (or something... ) [21:32] VJ, Snotty, server restarted. I didn't realize I had to select multiple maps for them to loop around. Now, there should be different maps every round. ;) [21:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [21:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [21:32] Trip: Rigel, and the GL [21:32] that has gotta be a fake. [21:33] what? [21:33] PTWDG2 [21:33] ohhhhhh [21:33] haha [21:33] guess you'll find out ;) [21:34] one way or another... [21:34] bak [21:34] hehe [21:34] *back [21:34] ack, the civ4 forums grew more text! [21:35] CFC has over 950 active members in the Civ 4 general forum [21:35] Most users ever online was 1129 on 14-04-2005 at 22:23 [21:35] and the game isn't even out... [21:35] Currently Active Users: 915 [21:35] hrmm [21:35] low isn't it? [21:35] we were at 900+ earlier tonight [21:36] 900+ [21:36] i am from chicago... [21:36] it is 2:36 p.m. here [21:36] for the whole forum or just Civ 4? [21:36] yeah...but it was on 14-4...whatwas so special about that? [21:36] i am guessing most civ followers are still at work [21:36] CFC had almost 1600 total [21:36] Lemmy: I'm wondering the same thing [21:36] both CFC's old record and Apolyton's were for that date [21:36] to the archive? [21:37] * VetLegion has joined #apolyton [21:37] hey vte [21:37] vet [21:37] This channel seems to grow all the time [21:37] * Gordon has joined #Apolyton [21:37] What are you people doing here :naughty: [21:37] 43 now [21:37] 46 [21:37] Hello MarkG [21:37] getting a bit sqaushed... [21:37] Hi Markos [21:37] vet, i'm pretty sure you can stay connected to multiple irc servers with your client ;) [21:37] hey move your elbow! [21:38] hey gordon [21:38] hmmm, I see [21:38] Trillian doesn't count ops in the total [21:38] omg omg german Civ4 in 2 days *jumps around* [21:38] I'm sure we got a lot more people coming yet [21:38] two days ? [21:38] trillian sucks :) [21:39] gaim rocks [21:39] yeah, trillian_sucks [21:39] Can I somehow be banned from reaching Apolyton altoghether? Like, can all Croatian IP adresses be banned? [21:39] I'm glad I can dump it now... [21:39] This wait is killing me, I can't stand reading how people are playing while I am not :( [21:39] anyone want to create a gaming team for civ 4 right now ? [21:39] * EPW has joined #Apolyton [21:39] VetLegion, you are so noob [21:40] do you share an IP range with Maceondia? 'cuz then I suspect Markos may be banning you ;) [21:40] mi2, you are so Finn :p [21:40] hello [21:40] VetLegion: no one who bought the game is already playing.. [21:40] locutus correct yourself ;) [21:40] i live in the US... i bought my game two days ago [21:40] Rysz, why is that? [21:40] oh, sorry, I mean the Great And Only True Nation Of Macedonia :p [21:40] because there appears to be a delay in the shipping [21:41] Nation? Locutus is WILD ;) [21:41] I don't know exact details (this business of shipping is still a bit new to me) [21:41] * {Core}Tomcat_ha has quit IRC (Quit: ) [21:41] The Former Very Unlucky To be Yugoslavian Republic of Apolytonia-Macedonia :p [21:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [21:42] Not that FOPOG counterfeit :p [21:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [21:42] Trip tells us a bit about your civ4 work :) [21:42] * Vic76 has joined #Apolyton [21:43] it's what I'm doing right now ;) [21:43] the PR man :) [21:43] while listening to French web radio :P [21:43] *arrgh a frensh pr men ;) [21:43] haha [21:43] Trip: OuiFM? ;) [21:43] I'm not French [21:43] He just plays one on TV [21:44] nobody is perfect heh [21:44] Frequence3 [21:44] it's slogan is "Une Rafale De Tubes" [21:44] I don't know what it means [21:44] anyone know? [21:44] does firaxis having any other chatting positions? [21:44] Trip, do you know will there be any copyright issues with fan translations? [21:44] Means: Spill the beans on Civ4 [21:44] hmm... "a fighter of pipes" [21:44] or maybe "a load of hits" [21:45] I don't think there are issues with fan translations [21:45] There were legal problems for Germans with Civ III, when fans translated it. [21:45] I'm not the ultimate authority on that though [21:45] I believe there is already a German fan translation made [21:45] the german version is already done :) [21:45] I am wondering since Croatia is a small market, there will probably never be a localized version... [21:46] I don't care about Germany, nuke it! ;) [21:46] VetLegion: No, but have you been trying to get them making a Macedonian localisation? ;) [21:46] well... [21:46] dont ask trip about this stuff, ask a firaxis lawyer [21:46] I'm definitely far from being a lawyer ;) [21:46] Since there will never be a Croation localisation it should be fine to translate it yourself but I think a Firaxian might get into trouble for saying that :) [21:47] I'm scared to death with lawyers in police. I have a lot of stuff on my conscience ;) [21:47] translations :q: [21:47] there is already a bulgarian translation, that will do ;) [21:47] dutch civ :shudders: [21:47] * Hamil has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.5/20041217]) [21:47] Locutus, OK. If they come and get me I'll give them the mIRC log and call on your authority :) [21:47] I hate copyright. :P Information should be freely available to everyone [21:47] could actually be cool, Lemmy, if done properly. I've done a partial Dutch translation of CtP2 and it worked fairly well [21:47] *ieuw... although I'm dutch, I do everthing on the computer in english... [21:48] better than the few commercial translations that exist [21:48] yeah, problem is when you go online and talk about ingame features [21:48] vet, good luck with that :p [21:48] information should be free unless it's mine [21:49] you have to figure out what everything is in english [21:49] I do prefer English and have English versions of all my software. but just for the heck of it an Dutch translation could be fun to make, and some people would actually benefit from it [21:49] I have a question [21:49] i think there are also italian and french translations already [21:49] * visu has joined #apolyton [21:49] It's already PIA being on a multiplayer server with people either talking French, Polish or Dutch. German is okay, as I can understand it. Not to mention localisations of the in-game messages... :S [21:49] anyone in here played civ 4 ? [21:49] I have [21:49] when you play multiplayer... [21:49] and spanish [21:50] I have Civ4 running in the background as I speak :) [21:50] and you send contracts or whatever to the other players... [21:50] :@ @ Locutus [21:50] are you winning locutus? [21:50] :p [21:50] I want civ4 :( [21:50] can you type in your request ? or do you have to select predefined options ? [21:50] I hope your PC Crashes [21:50] Rub it in! [21:50] hard to say, it's still 3800 BC or so :) [21:50] yes yes, more inspiring of jealousy. thanks Locutus, [21:50] * glguy has joined #apolyton [21:50] * Lemmy wonders how far locutus lives >.> [21:50] what are the system reqs of civ4 going to be? thats something i still haven't seen on their official web page last I checked. [21:51] i know when you play the computer you "select predifined trade or commnunications options against the computer [21:51] Ever played an OCC CIV Game? [21:51] sadaiya, you can chat with the other person and do an offer as you would to the ai [21:51] i c... so you can't actually type out an offer [21:51] ok... [21:51] but you can chat witht he opponent [21:51] hmm, every location in the netherlands is less than 6 hours away from my home, if you go by car [21:51] not gonna tell anyone where I live until Civ4 is released in the Netherlands ;) [21:51] see http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=140225 [21:51] * sabre2th has joined #apolyton [21:51] 49 [21:52] also does civilization have any concept of globalization and or emigration ? [21:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [21:52] 50! [21:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [21:52] 49! [21:52] lol [21:52] Almost [21:52] no [21:52] that settler guy really gets on my nerves [21:52] that was re: sadaiya [21:52] Markos, you could put it of? ;) [21:52] he was in and out about 50 times last time i was in here, Mark [21:52] *off [21:52] yeah, ban him, Markos [21:53] also does civilization have any concept of globalization and or emigration ? [21:53] yeah mark, you still haven't figured out an alternative to that? [21:54] couldn't settler just stay in here without leaving the room ? [21:54] You'd think... [21:54] i have been slightly occupied with other things :cute: [21:54] lol @ Mark :) [21:54] * Ghenghis has joined #Apolyton [21:54] 50 [21:54] 50? [21:54] people [21:54] ok globalization or emigration ? [21:55] yes i know, krill [21:55] no sadaiya [21:55] none of the above [21:56] When is the Moo3 forum going to be put to rest? [21:56] never [21:56] ok... [21:56] moo3 rules [21:56] does it come with accurate scenarios ? [21:56] yeah! moo3 forever [21:56] ww2 scenarios ? [21:56] or cold war scenarios [21:56] perhaps the only global thing is when a civ choose the emancipation civic and everyone else has unhappipness about it [21:56] LOL @ MOO3 rules [21:56] Moo3 is cool in a way [21:56] are gamestop/ebgames owned by the same company? [21:56] I wonder what the civ4 world map looks like (if one is provided) [21:57] if you like spreadsheets ;) [21:57] if heavily modded, yeah [21:57] yes, it emphasizes the coolness of other 4x games by being unimaginably uncool [21:57] * VladAntlerkovAFK is now known as VladAntlerkovWFR [21:57] ebgames bought gamestop recently or the opposite [21:57] that is one of the things i am looking forward too... creating my own mods [21:57] ah [21:57] Well it simulates Empire Managment quite well. You do not have much influence on it :) [21:57] i am thinking of making a mod on the indian revolution against british empire... [21:58] world builder manual by dale [21:58] http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140519 [21:59] Heh. [21:59] * ChaosLord is playing MoO3 right now. [21:59] * Krill is playing placate the GF right now. [22:00] Glutton for punishment [22:00] * Locutus is playing Civ4 right now :p [22:00] uh. [22:00] Git [22:00] please Locutus, you're killing me [22:00] I'm trying :p [22:00] If I could reach through this screen and throttle him I would [22:01] lemmy ? [22:01] you could put us all out of our misery by saying it is an awful, awful game, but we all know that you would be lying... [22:01] It's an awful game [22:01] I wonder if Yin is going to use condiments [22:01] Tom Clancy's games seem like the most realistic to me... [22:01] it is an awful, awful game and a torture to play [22:02] damn, I wasted all that money on the pre-order... :( :p [22:02] civ is more fun to play around with [22:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [22:02] i enjoy micromanagement... [22:02] Well, it only got 0.2 more than Moo3 [22:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [22:02] locutus is a biatch [22:02] lol [22:02] * LaRusso has joined #apolyton [22:02] Does anyone know if there's a world map? If so - how accurate is it? [22:02] * Rave has joined #apolyton [22:02] remember I can ban people :p [22:02] www.worldmap.com [22:02] doesnt make you not a biatch for Locutus is playing Civ4 right now :p [22:02] grrr [22:03] alright [22:03] well im going to eb [22:03] to waste my time [22:03] is the bug fixed where people who are banned can still post in private forums? [22:03] there is a world map [22:03] Do you import the worldmap on a bitmap or something or is it included? [22:04] all those mod tools will probably come out pretty soon. map makers from GIS data and the likes, like in civ3 [22:04] Well, I got most of it translated. There's just one part I don't get. [22:04] i finally understand how it occassionally happens in the usa that a guy walks into a store and just sprays bullets. i mean, this civ4 delay is enough to make you go bloody mental. :) [22:05] It doesn't make sense at all, because whatever he's saying isn't from the same source (the bible) that all the rest of the quotes are from. [22:05] Most likely the composer threw in his own words there. [22:05] * jazzciver has joined #apolyton [22:05] bye bye for now friends [22:05] * Ninot has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:05] sorry wasnt around [22:05] I was just kidding locutus [22:05] so whats the news? [22:05] the map is included, though there is a bitmap conversion program too (not sure what kind of maps it comes with) [22:06] * Dale has joined #apolyton [22:06] they delayed shipping? or is it just a rumour? [22:06] Hi all. :) [22:06] it's true [22:06] confirmed be what/who? [22:06] ah, there you are, Dale, what kept you? :) [22:06] hi Dale [22:06] Sleep! ;) [22:06] hope it doesnt affect the european shipping date, if it's true [22:06] Hey Trip [22:07] What are your thoughts on the map, Locutus? Is it any good? I love playing on random maps but like the real world too! [22:07] confirmed by me and others. called eb [22:07] well.... [22:07] kinda bad :) [22:07] * kuratko has joined #apolyton [22:08] Now the full swahili version of this is "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever." [22:08] * Alva has joined #Apolyton [22:08] However, in the song he says something more along the lines of "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. Glory." I don't get it. This is the only part left I have to translate. [22:08] so has anyone been able to buy civ4? [22:08] I've only played the Earth 1000 AD scenario, not the plain map, which it's based on. the scenario is pretty good though [22:08] Locutus: PASTE! [22:09] Hi Alve, hi Dale [22:09] OMG!! thiZ g4m3 is br0ken!!! [22:09] firaxians, firaxis consultants (that's me and half a dozen others), beta testers and game reviewers, but that's all so far it seems... [22:09] lol [22:09] :) [22:09] ;) [22:09] I bought it. But it isn't at the store. [22:09] that's the most known prayer among christians... [22:09] hi all!! [22:09] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Dale [22:09] Rysz: Yeah, so why does he leave out the kingdom and the power? Why just glory? [22:09] hail Dale, god of modding guides [22:09] I think I'm hearing him wrong. [22:09] Can you tell us anything about this 1000AD scenario - we Brits have to wait another ten days for it to be released [22:09] There's definately no kingdom or power, those words are easily identifiable. [22:09] just wait until you see my guide :p [22:10] arsonide, ok, sorry, missed that.. [22:10] and that python thing.... [22:10] well, it's on an earth map and starts in 1000 AD :) [22:10] 1066 AD would be nice [22:10] Hmm Markos, doing this by phone this time too? or the normal way ;) [22:10] and that too, yes. [22:10] My guess is that it sucks :P [22:10] Thanks!! Are all the civs on it? [22:10] DSL baby [22:10] you can make a 1066 scenario if you'd like ;) [22:10] oh, Rhye made it [22:10] Thanks Mark. :D [22:10] but if we even get tools as good as in civ2 to make scenarios... it doesn't matter [22:10] 1000AD scenario is actually many scenarios together [22:11] I was thinking about a 1973 one, actually. [22:11] is different if you play the chinese or the arabs or the french or the aztecs [22:11] I figured people would want to get into the WB first, so posted the manual. :) [22:11] OMG!! thiZ g4m3 is br0ken!!! [22:11] not all, the major civs from 1000 AD: France, England, HRE, Byzantium, Arabs, Chinese, Mongols (start without cities), Mali, Aztec, Inca, probably a few others I forgot [22:11] * Cyclotron has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:11] For reference, here's the discrepency: Full quote: Usitutie katika majaribu, lakini utuokoe na yule Mwovu.`*fa* na utukufu, hata milele. Amina. [22:11] What's said in the song: Usitutie katika majaribu, lakini utuokoe na yule. Milele. [22:11] VJ: Check out the modding manual in the creation forum. The in-game editor is GOOD! [22:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [22:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [22:12] What is the largest map you can make? [22:12] wow @ Dale! [22:12] Except he screams it more like MilelelaLELELA! [22:12] But yeah, Milele. [22:12] Mongols without cities? Similar idea to Rome TW Barbarian Invasion? [22:13] I don't think we tried to break it yet, not sure if there's a max size. Trip? [22:13] Sir0sis: Any size, but bigger than 100*100 you need some good ram. ;) Took 30 minutes to load a 150*150. [22:13] RAM * processor maybe? ;) [22:13] I dunno [22:13] does each civ just have equivalent units ? [22:13] I dunno, haven't exactly had much time to play R:TW BI in the past few weeks, kinda been occupied ;) [22:13] 1Gb or 2Gb? [22:13] or are there individual units ? [22:13] 2 [22:14] Anyone played it with 3d glasses? [22:14] and remember, a civ4 map is different from a civ3 map. 150x150 in civ4 equals 150x300 in civ3... or something like that [22:14] lol & sir0sis [22:14] yes [22:14] dale, wait... you have 2gb, and 150x150 loading took you >30 min? [22:14] Civ 3 had an isometric grid [22:14] meaning there were many tiles missing [22:14] certain coordinate combos didn't exist [22:15] No, I have 800 mb, I'd say 2gb to load it decently. That's without units too. [22:15] Locutus, why "150x150 in civ4 equals 150x300 in civ3."? [22:15] read Trip's posts [22:15] Where? [22:15] what he said [22:15] just above mine [22:15] wow [22:15] lot of Civ 4 forums now ;) [22:16] Yeah Markos spammed the board with them [22:16] all for you trip ;) [22:16] * CyberShy has joined #Apolyton [22:16] haha [22:16] did he top them all also? ;) [22:16] oh dear... i only have ½ gig [22:16] No one tried it w/ 3d glasses? Guess I'll check it out when I get it [22:16] PARTY!!!! [22:16] I have 1 gig of memory I'm alright right? [22:16] shouldn't yoube in bed cyber? :p [22:16] maybe I should [22:16] VJ: On 500 meg it'll take 10-15 mins to load the HUGE maps. [22:16] * glguy has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [22:16] But apparantly I' not :P [22:16] I bought 1 GB of RAM for 73 dollars [22:17] so, anybody actually already got the game? [22:17] Paste! [22:17] Cyber: Yep. ;) [22:17] Dale, by load, do you mean generating a random map? [22:17] firaxians, firaxis consultants (that's me and half a dozen others), beta testers and game reviewers, but that's all so far it seems... [22:17] so, how did you got it? [22:17] Yes, by load I mean getting to the dawn of man window. [22:17] from Firaxis... [22:17] How long has anyone known about Civ 4? I was spared too long a wait since I only found out about it in April! [22:17] oh well, my graphics card isn' working anyway 8) [22:17] Locutus, you should add that line to the topic [22:17] CyberShy: too long [22:17] we probably should... [22:17] it was announced December almost 2 years ago [22:18] Can I buy Ouzo in the poly store? [22:18] A LONG wait! [22:18] I remember the "civ 4" anouncement like the day of yesterday [22:18] so, what will happen during this chat? [22:18] * ACS_MarkG changes topic to 'Civ4 We-Dont-Have-The-Game-So-All-We-Can-Do-Is-Party Party NOW! - (official start 5PM est (10PM gmt)) ' [22:18] Ghenghis: I predicted it already when Civ III was released. If Sid wouldn't have done it, someone would have again licensed the brand like Activision did. [22:18] The wait has been the longest today. Can't get the game until tomorrow [22:18] any celebs coming? [22:19] you've got me [22:19] I'm already here [22:19] it should've started 18 minutes ago... [22:19] meh [22:19] Eating and typing slows me down :p [22:19] no we start in 41 mins [22:19] ok, if you would be MarkG, you would be a celeb . But you'e ACS_MarkG [22:19] * Dale thinks I should load up the game and play. HAHAHAHAHA [22:19] anyone having trouble getting through Gamespot lately? [22:19] git [22:19] oh, wait, you're right. stupid timezones... [22:19] I tried to find the game in a special way, but it' not available in the *special* way as well :( [22:19] You're not wrong there, Rasbelin. [22:19] you reach gamespot trip? [22:20] moderated I hope!! Mark?? [22:20] please!!! [22:20] * SirOsis slaps Dale around a bit with Locutus [22:20] it just worked for me now [22:20] moderated party? [22:20] Dale: Just do, Locutus is already teasing us every 10 minutes or so ;) [22:20] we're up to #8 overall in the site's rankings ;) [22:20] I am playing civ4 right now :p [22:21] Locotus, can I drive to you and get a copy :cute: [22:21] Ghenghis: Civilization is a game brand that sells like IT shares in the 90's. People go wild about it, despite it wouldn't be "that good." Sid has made it a brand with value, so of course someone would buy it. [22:21] no, I only have one CD and you're not getting it :p [22:21] * a3aan has joined #apolyton [22:21] how much do most games seell ? [22:21] bassie coming too? [22:21] i was reading somewhere that civ4 sold 6 million already ? [22:22] lol@alva [22:22] is that good bad or expected ? [22:22] most games are lucky to sell over 50,000 copies [22:22] @Locotus: tell me where you live anyway :cute: [22:22] ;) [22:22] is that good bad or expected ? [22:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [22:22] so no one got the game today at all? [22:22] * aftermath has quit IRC (Quit: 12( www.nnscript.de 12:: NoNameScript 3.81 12:: www.XLhost.de 12)) [22:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [22:22] ok... how does it compare with for example the Madden sereies [22:22] So that's like ... what, quarter the amount of times it has been warezored by the time it'll truly hit the retail stores? [22:22] the game that has sold the most out of PC is The Sims with 10 million copies [22:22] I'll tell you when it's been released in the Netherlands, I like my peace and quiet :cute: [22:22] Civ 3 sold 2 million [22:22] like Madded06 [22:22] 2 million, wow [22:22] jesus [22:22] they sell millions each year right ? [22:22] civ1, civ2, civ3 and their expansions and gold versions sold 6 mil [22:23] what's the target for CIv4 Trip? [22:23] i c.. all together [22:23] that' too late, then I'l be busy playing civ :D [22:23] world is not that big, p2p is eating away PC profits [22:23] hmmm, not sure I can share that ;) [22:23] I'll just say we expect it to be the best yet [22:23] Only games marketed for ppl too stupid to use p2ps are selling anymore, that's why The Sims is so popular :'( [22:23] firaxis needs to pay martin sheen and spock [22:23] :sacred: [22:23] :scared: [22:23] i like consoles for racing games alone [22:23] martin sheen is in civ4? [22:23] I like RPGs :D [22:23] ACS_MarkG: who are they? [22:24] it seems like most gamers play football and fighting games against friends on console [22:24] yea, it's a pity nobody has come up with a racing game for consoles with a truly great inter_web multiplayer [22:24] VJ, martin sheen is a holywood actor who did the voiceover in the civ4 trailer :) [22:24] i also like and squaresoft RPG's... [22:24] f1 ladders and tournaments would be awesome [22:24] * CyberShy has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [22:24] VJ: Being stupid has nothing to do with playing The Sims. It sells because it's played by people not usually interested in video gaming at all or don't buy games themselves. And The Sims is also popular warez. However it's all because of what the game offers. [22:25] markg: so martin sheen doesnt do any other ingame voiceovers? [22:25] sims was ok... [22:25] * Firaxis_Soren has joined #Apolyton [22:25] i wasn't too impressed by it... [22:25] j/k [22:25] Spock is Mr Spock [22:25] wooot [22:25] * Firaxis_Soren has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [22:25] lol [22:25] I remember being TOTALLY HOOKED to it [22:25] it is cool just for the house building / architecture alone [22:25] * CyberShy has joined #Apolyton [22:25] Soren is in the room nextdoor :P [22:25] :cute: [22:25] For around two hours, that is. [22:25] had to try it :cute: [22:25] tell soren he has 30 mins left :) [22:25] well... if it was the first computer game i EVER played... then yeah... it would be cool [22:25] well... if it was the first computer game i EVER played... then yeah... it would be cool [22:25] but i've been gaming for a while so it's not that impressive for me [22:26] * CyberShy has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [22:26] sm, not ingame, trialer [22:26] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best_selling_video_games [22:26] is soren is coming here to answer questions? [22:26] trailer [22:26] showing off :shame :p [22:26] * ACS_MarkG_ has joined #Apolyton [22:26] there's the list [22:26] :cute: [22:26] * ACS_MarkG_ has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [22:26] actually... Civ was the first PC game I played [22:26] Annoying Soren for no reason sounds good [22:26] * CyberShy has joined #Apolyton [22:26] (MSX games were not PC-games :P) [22:26] ok, I' done playing now [22:26] * CyberShy was kicked by ACS_MarkG (ACS_MarkG) [22:26] lol [22:26] lol [22:26] * CyberShy has joined #Apolyton [22:26] * CyberShy was kicked by ACS_MarkG (ACS_MarkG) [22:26] i can have fun too [22:26] civ as your first PC game.. wow what a benchmark for other games [22:26] * Rasbelin is now known as Firexis_Rasbelin [22:27] Praise Sid! [22:27] op-abuse :D [22:27] first game i played was sim city 2000 [22:27] * Firexis_Rasbelin is now known as Rasbelin [22:27] followed by civII [22:27] then i got into the whole quake series [22:27] sm: and still hooked... SC was my second game [22:27] i was about to start a countdown ras.... [22:27] if you're going to pretend you're from Firaxis, at least spell it right... [22:27] and then played black and white [22:27] quake 2 was awesome [22:27] sadaiya_g: Mine was Sid's Railroad Tycoon. :) [22:27] sm: ehh... what was so awesome about it? [22:27] VJ: multiplayer [22:27] ahh... that was good ione [22:28] I still remember the first time I tried to play it... putting down those R-zones, and then wondering why nothing happened.... being just 10 years old, and not able to understand english ;) [22:28] * Not_CyberShy has joined #Apolyton [22:28] VJ: the adrenaline rush of fragging people was just awesome [22:28] then there was an explosion of "simulation"/"tycoon" games [22:28] * Rasbelin is now known as Firaxis_Rasbelin [22:28] Typo fixed. :P [22:28] :cute: [22:28] Now: Praise Sid! [22:28] like pizza tycoon or mall tycoon or zoo tycoon [22:28] * Firaxis_Rasbelin is now known as Rasbelin [22:28] the main difference between quake 1 and quake 2 single players was that quake 2 had a hell-bitch who moaned like she'd gotten an orgasm every time you shot her [22:28] ...iirc [22:28] well single player is really dull you know [22:28] don' tell Markos that I'm CyberShy! He'l kick me again :cute: [22:28] RR Tycoon was the only game my father actually liked... [22:28] walk around with a gun point it at bad guys [22:28] but multiplayer was good, I agree [22:28] Quake II was the first fully Windows version of Quake. [22:28] Markos! CyberShy is incognito [22:28] yeah, mp is where it shined. its great to fight humans [22:29] Markos, Not_CyberShy is really CyberShy :p [22:29] /kicks Rysz [22:29] the "~Java_user" kinda gives it away, CyberShy [22:29] lol :d [22:29] Rysz: Oh noes! What a coincidence. :) Mine too. [22:29] if I would be my name wouldn' be NOT-CyberShy, obviously! [22:29] geeeeez [22:29] cybershy promise to be good boy [22:29] I already promised before my 2nd kick :cute: [22:29] oh i forgot about the AMAZINGly ridiculously popular starcraft [22:30] this once again proves Dutch people are experts at ratting each other out :) [22:30] *sob* it'n been years since I was in a chatroom :D [22:30] a soap opera is unravelling in here [22:30] good [22:30] i think they are working on a new version of starcraft right ? [22:30] pss, locutus is playing civ4, swarm him! [22:30] zerg swarm [22:30] Locotus, now if you do that again I'll report that you send me a copy of your civ4 copy :cute: [22:30] CyberShy:mine last time was even longer ago... I even had to re-install mIRC as it was not installed on my current install of windows :S [22:30] see? we have learned so much from WWII ;) [22:30] I' m in java chat [22:30] :D:D [22:31] it works?? [22:31] im looking forward to civ 4 WW 2 scenarios [22:31] no, it doesn' [22:31] http://apolyton.net/forums updated logo :) [22:31] I' not here [22:31] what? did we actually learn something from WWII? [22:31] are paratroopers in the game? [22:31] Java chat won't work for me [22:31] ZOMG new logo? [22:31] same here [22:31] update your java software! [22:31] lazy [22:31] It' beautifull! [22:31] or just download mIRC [22:31] it's time for a new forum style ;) [22:32] @Markos, remember how I hacked apolyton 2 years ago :cute: [22:32] ooh, c4 blueish [22:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [22:32] I used that technique today to hack into some soccer game today :D [22:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [22:32] A civ4 forum style would be nice [22:32] anyone from the USA ? [22:32] soccer game? hattrick by any chance? [22:32] I can't resist, I'm evil :( [22:32] i want to make a team [22:32] * Kublai has joined #Apolyton [22:32] no, not hattrick [22:32] onlinesoccermanager.nl [22:32] b4 i get the game so that we are all on the same "learning curve" / "experience level" [22:32] it's too easy, unfortunately I dislike cheating [22:32] b4 i get the game so that we are all on the same "learning curve" / "experience level" [22:33] * Kublai has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:33] we can learn about it together... [22:33] I really love the music of civ4 and how the soldiers talk in their native language. Right now enjoying it 8) [22:33] * Kublai has joined #Apolyton [22:33] Dang, my tank just lost to a spearman :( [22:33] Too bad civ4 didn' solve that :( [22:33] lol [22:34] nobody believes you [22:34] BAN him [22:34] * Kublai has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:34] * Rysz has left #apolyton [22:34] * Rysz has joined #apolyton [22:34] You scared Kublai away :shame: [22:34] again! [22:34] * Ghenghis has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [22:34] WOW that nuclear explosion ROCKS! [22:34] too bad my nuke lost to a warrior :( [22:34] is :shame: some java chat icon? [22:34] and now genghis too! those mongols are a bunch of wimps in civ4! [22:34] you shouldn't be defending your cities with nukes... [22:34] we don't believe you either Locotus [22:35] * aebbeka has joined #Apolyton [22:35] Nah... whenever I see an Apolyton CS forum smiley text code, my brains imagine it as a real smiley [22:35] Ah Aeson, still online? :D;) [22:35] or attacking spearmen with your redlined tanks [22:35] That's why I use codes, :cool: [22:35] civ4 is in fact a skin over civ3 [22:36] no, I'm not online. :P [22:36] it can't be [22:36] they use a different engine [22:36] That's what they want you to believe, sadaiya :x [22:36] that' what they told you! [22:36] The only new thing is the box! [22:36] I can tell you since I just got the game [22:36] What about the spiral-bound manual, Cyber? [22:36] they took a few lessons from Microsoft ;) [22:36] ok... well they claim it uses the same engine as Pirates [22:36] I just downloaded it from some site, it said: "Download civilization thr uh four here!" [22:37] which is a cool looking 3d engine [22:37] The spiral bound is cool! [22:37] The cover is cool as well, it says civilization 3, but then the 3 is striked through and replace with a nice 4! [22:37] Though I got the yin26 version, in which the 4 is striked through as well and been replaced by 1.549 [22:37] am I typing too much? [22:38] yes [22:38] nah [22:38] 4 in a row means a kick right? ;) [22:38] nah, that's 5 [22:38] cool, I can register civ8.com, it' still free!! [22:38] lol [22:38] you should talk more between my lines in that case! [22:39] I loved it when yin26 blathered on and on about how civ 2 hadn't truly been ever released since they were all x-pack... that was so insane. [22:39] Anyone play a PBEM game? [22:39] * Rave has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:39] I could see the point when it came to 2->3, but 1->2? C'mon. [22:39] * FriedLOG has joined #apolyton [22:39] oh my, real-apolyton.net is available as well! [22:39] civ3 rocks :doitnow!: [22:39] * FriedLOG is now known as FriedrichPsitalon [22:39] we need smileys in here.. [22:39] Time for me to go. Bye all! :) [22:39] So they say Civ4 games won't take as long to play? Sounds nice for PBEM. [22:39] hi dale,bye dale [22:39] bye [22:40] didn't we have them at one time? [22:40] oh boy, there goes the neighbourhood ;) [22:40] * EPW1 has joined #Apolyton [22:40] * nik has joined #apolyton [22:40] Hey Fried! Bye Fried. ;) [22:40] um, so much for psitalon being mark's dl:) [22:40] Yep. Rar. or something. [22:40] what is PBEM ? [22:40] See you Dale ;) [22:40] * nik has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [22:40] play by email [22:40] * EPW has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [22:40] Huh? Mark's dl? [22:40] lol [22:40] * Dale has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:40] hehe, somebody mentioned that on poly;) [22:40] * Atma has joined #apolyton [22:40] * EPW1 is now known as EPW [22:40] * FriedrichPsitalon is confused. [22:40] * Not_Firaxis_Soren has joined #Apolyton [22:40] * Not_Firaxis_Soren has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [22:41] Fried is here? Not playing MP? [22:41] Confusion... that reminds me, isn't it interesting that while LaRusso is a serb, Serb is a Russian? [22:41] got his butt kicked ;) [22:41] sssssssooo, are they shipping it before christmas? [22:41] * jazzciver has quit IRC (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.61 [Mozilla rv:1.7.7/20050414]) [22:41] knowing him he's doing both at once ;) [22:41] Actually, I'd love to get a game with a beta. ::shrug:: [22:41] Locotus, why don't you send us some more screenshots? [22:41] vj: yeah.... [22:41] the Civ4Players ladder is open for the betas,but they seem busy at the moment [22:41] I think it was MikeH who first noticed it [22:41] i actually misspelled lorusso, which is an italian name [22:41] Fried, have you played a Civ 4 PBEM? [22:41] what kind of screenshots? [22:42] I personally have not, but I know they were of interest to several others. [22:42] I didn't have the time to contribute to one. [22:42] cool screenshots [22:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [22:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [22:42] things we didn' saw before [22:42] the latest city screenshots (in-city) [22:42] there are plenty of cool screenshots already [22:42] things like...defeat screan [22:42] guess I can post my first article now. [22:42] Just curious if there is a summary screen after each turn or something to know what units were lost, barb movements, etc. [22:42] :: grabs the other computer:: [22:42] or more difficult for you: victory screen :D [22:42] Are there any actual governments anymore, like Despot, Republic, or is it all the custom Civics thing? [22:42] they look the same as the ones you already saw [22:42] you only show us games where AI or mark is eating some dust:) [22:42] can anyone expand on the barbarians in Civ4 ? [22:43] they'e mean [22:43] and ugly [22:43] * Ghenghis has joined #Apolyton [22:43] they be very mean [22:43] no, no more governments, just civics [22:43] and they smell when they fart [22:43] are barbarians always locked as horsemen, warriors and galleys? [22:43] i just remembered the 'never, you greek infidel' screen LOL [22:43] no, but they can't leave the computer [22:43] they'e locked inside the game [22:43] which is actually good [22:43] im not afraid, i switched to capital one [22:43] * aebbeka is now known as Adam [22:44] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +o FriedrichPsitalon [22:44] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v FriedrichPsitalon [22:44] Markos arounnd/awake? [22:44] barbs can be all kinds of units I think though they're usually either city defenders or city attackers (or animals) [22:44] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: -o FriedrichPsitalon [22:44] hey fried [22:44] Markos, where you want me to send my review/first article? [22:44] markg@apolyton.net [22:44] * ACS_MarkG is trying to fix the java chat.... [22:45] that would be good :b: [22:45] there are 900 people roaming civfanatics boards.... [22:45] I'm not even sure my first article counts as one [22:45] little late, no? :p [22:45] Since we all know MarkG is in Firaxis' pocket. We don't want him editing your review. :cute: [22:45] lol [22:45] when barbarians capture a city, do they spawn new units? [22:45] 940 on Apolyton too [22:45] jesus [22:45] my review is completely favorable,no real need for him to [22:45] that's Markos and 939 DL' of me [22:45] 1800 lunatics confirmed loose [22:45] I keep Poly alive 8) [22:46] ever boastful dutchmen :P [22:46] wow, and no slowdown at all [22:46] in this chat I'm running 49 windows as well [22:46] * Ghenghis has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [22:46] there were 1600 at CFC a few hours ago [22:46] sm, barb cities function exactly like normal cities, although barbs will mostly build units (and maybe city walls and barracks, not sure) [22:46] * Atma keeps pondering going and buying more booze to replenish her stock. Then working through that stock. Had been expecting to have Civ4 today... not gonna have a day off until next week, now, to get much time to play it. [22:46] I think there were thousands on poly when civ3 was released [22:46] * a3aan has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:46] Mark- sent [22:46] i' M really surprised that civ4 can't be found in the ahum alternate cirquit eiter yet! [22:46] just get drunk, works everye time ;) [22:47] Let me know when it's "up" at Apolyton and I'll release it at C4P [22:47] * SirOsis hands out shots of Ouzo [22:47] no, back in those days the server couldn't handle more than 1200. we could easily handle a multitude of that now, but they ain't coming... [22:47] Alva: Problem is, while I can get a buzz easily enough, it takes waaay too much to _stay_ drunk. )= [22:47] at least not so far [22:47] * Alva goes to fridge to get a beer [22:47] indeed [22:47] that's quiet uncommon for a game [22:47] * Atma would be going with vodka drinks. [22:48] * Ghenghis has joined #Apolyton [22:48] locutus; build it and they will come doesn't work?;) [22:48] Beer, vodka, and ouzo. That's tasty [22:48] * VladAntlerkovWFR is now known as VladAntlerkovAFK [22:48] * Tyranthraxus has joined #apolyton [22:48] quiet a party! [22:49] this time it doesn't apparently :/ [22:49] quite too [22:49] * Alva passes cans around the room and none of that dutch **** either ;) [22:49] It's not too bad, I most probably can't play the game anyway :( [22:49] * Alva passes on the wodka :D [22:49] * Not_CyberShy hates his video card, his BRAND NEW video card [22:49] Why not, CyberShy? [22:49] * sabre2th slaps Not_CyberShy around a bit with a large trout [22:49] * javauser has joined #apolyton [22:49] what card is it? [22:50] * Not_CyberShy can't play the game because my video card is not playing movies [22:50] * javauser has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [22:50] * Not_CyberShy has a GeForce 6600 [22:50] that's a weird problem cyber [22:50] civ4 has bik movies not avis or whatever it was that wasn't working [22:50] those circles say tomorrow [22:50] * Atma wants a better video card than the Radeon7500 Mobility in her laptop, but her girlfriend's computer has a Radeon9800, so she should be able to turn most the graphical features on, there. <^_^> [22:50] have you tried VLC player? [22:50] * Orion has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [22:50] and that would definitely be a sw problem so reinstalling it should fix it [22:50] so at least those in europes will have something till the dvds make it across [22:50] always make sure the g/f has a better comp [22:50] I'll try it! Good that you remember me! [22:50] 9800 is plenty ;) [22:50] she'll want to play more [22:51] I've reinstalled it several times already, including a format [22:51] or maybe the dvds are pressed in europe [22:51] Friedrich secret to happy dating while being a gamer #5 [22:51] it makes you look self-sacrificing, see [22:51] Well, I'm her girlfriend. I still prefer my computer, but its not a gamer computer. Dual 1GHz G4. (= [22:51] only 5 volumes?? [22:51] that sounds doable :expect: [22:51] My laptop cuts it, though, but is getting a bit long in the tooth with that Radeon7500 Mobility. Will need to be replaced when I go back to school, next year, anyway. [22:51] hey, this may sound silly, but has anyone heard about the release date on my strategy guide? [22:52] I'm too lazy to find out myself [22:52] how sad is that [22:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [22:52] which publisher is it? [22:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [22:52] Bradygames [22:52] Brady [22:52] plugging.. :shame: [22:52] I heard mid-november [22:52] and hi, Aeson [22:52] :p [22:52] I heard Monday somewhere ;) [22:52] hello FP [22:52] yesterday, that is [22:52] then again, that's for europe [22:52] plugging? pfft, I don't get paid royalties. ;) [22:52] I saw one for the 26th I think [22:52] Trip, a serious question [22:52] but not sure on the publisher [22:53] Signing bad contracts :shame::p [22:53] is the civ4 devel team on paid vacation? [22:53] http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=871820 [22:53] * Bill3000 has joined #Apolyton [22:53] there it is FP [22:53] * javauser has joined #apolyton [22:53] i just read that, saying they were all out partying right now and for the next few weeks [22:53] what's this 'vacation' thing you speak of??? :confused: [22:53] cool [22:53] probably just speculation? [22:53] She's, like, "Yeah, install it on my computer, but when I get home and want to start writing, you better get off it." Blargh. Well, I guess for once having such different schedules'll be nice. She starts work two hours before I finish, which typically sucks horribly. )= [22:53] wanted to write the same thing @ Locutus :D [22:53] neato [22:53] moo [22:54] I hoped they would end my contract, so I could play civ4 for weeks, but then they renewed it :( [22:54] But that means it'll give me six and a half hours an evening to play the game while waiting on her to get off work. But I wanted it today. ;.; [22:54] * javauser has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [22:54] is the pay good from firaxis? :) [22:54] if I suddenly leave the chat, then that' because my computer froze after I tried to play a .wmv file with VLC [22:54] Civ2 hid many (most?) of the formulas behind game mechanics. The community took years to discover them all, and discovering some has been quite an achievement. Names like samson have done an impressive job. SMAC on the other hand went to the other extreme: you could see every formula in the in-game help system. Where is Civ IV standing on this spectrum? [22:55] [[ Civ2 hid many (most?) of the formulas behind game mechanics hidden. ]] [22:55] Civ4 seems to bring a lot of SMAC back. [22:55] now there's a guy who establishes backgrgound for his questions [22:55] There is only one equation: E=mc2 [22:55] heya FP [22:55] civ4 will be open source in a few weeks. that should answer your qeustion, vet [22:55] Vet: Talk to DeepO ;) [22:55] SMAC is great stuff [22:55] Beyond that, I'm not particularly sure. [22:55] mc^2 :p [22:55] heya Krill [22:55] Krill - has Dominae talked to you yet? [22:55] no [22:55] not yet. [22:55] Dammit, FP = Frustrated Poet !!! [22:56] * SirOsis slaps Bill3000 with a ^ [22:56] * confused * [22:56] * ACS_DanQ has joined #apolyton [22:56] Locutus, thats not really funny. You ARE joking [22:56] Meh? I'm pretty sure that Civ4 by itself wouldn't be open source. o_O Sure, extremely customizable, but open source? [22:56] * Not_CyberShy has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [22:56] And I am guillable. [22:56] no, I'm not. well, not technically open-source, but the source code of the core game will be released [22:56] FP= FriedrichPsitalon. [22:56] hey Dan [22:56] * FriedrichPsitalon eclipses the poet. [22:56] it wont be open source, did you read the sid interview on slashdot? [22:56] My question was for Trip, where did he dissapear? [22:56] Hello DanQ [22:56] acronyms are meant to be confused [22:56] Yeah I know .. ;) [22:56] (cause I weight too much) [22:56] Hi Locutus, VetLegion, everyone. [22:57] Used to be F_P [22:57] ACS_DanQ: Ahh, mister Quick! [22:57] Hey Dan [22:57] I thought it stood for Forbidden Palace [22:57] * adarel has joined #apolyton [22:57] FP is the Forbidden Palace trumps both [22:57] FP = Napolean... [22:57] :) [22:57] I answered the question for you :) [22:57] code will be released [22:57] a lot is in Python as well [22:57] Hey Dan the man!! [22:57] is there still a Forbidden Palace in civ4? [22:57] * CyberShy has joined #apolyton [22:57] Well, there's no corruption in Civ4... [22:57] not really, Trip, just the UI and stuff, but not core formulas [22:57] one that doesn't take impossibly long to build in the places you need it most? [22:57] ok, it didn't work [22:57] Krill- has Dominae talked to you? [22:57] WAIT [22:57] Hi Rasbelin, sabre2th, Alva. [22:57] adam: yes, FP is in [22:57] Source code for Civ IV will be released :eek: [22:58] ??????? [22:58] Uh, No, Dominae has not spoken to me at all [22:58] What about corruption? Is it as annoying as it was in 3? [22:58] * Fried-Psitalon has joined #apolyton [22:58] What is this some sort of pulling our leg? [22:58] There's no corruption [22:58] can we get any python preview? [22:58] no corruption [22:58] woohoo, what's the catch? [22:58] * visu has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:58] hey, this java chat suddenly is totally different then the version I just used 1 minute ago!!! [22:58] i saw some earlier, would love to see more of the python [22:58] wait, none whatsoever??? :o [22:58] 2 Fps? [22:58] No corruption? What is alexman going to do? [22:58] * FriedrichPsitalon has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:58] that's news to you, vet? have you been living in a cave in the past 6 months? [22:58] Marks working on it [22:58] People become sad, I guess [22:58] changed computers [22:58] * Eidalac has joined #apolyton [22:58] that would be it [22:58] adam, there is no corruption [22:58] I only get a "unregistered copy" line every time I say something :D [22:58] @ SirO lol [22:58] plenty of stuff is in Python Locutus [22:58] * maverick72 has joined #apolyton [22:58] Demographics values [22:58] score calcuation [22:58] I know about the modability, python and all that [22:59] http://apolyton.net/misc/chat/room/ [22:59] So I'm wondering what the Forbidden Palace would do [22:59] night folks! cya in MP sometime [22:59] new room [22:59] sm, weren't you here when I posted a Python excerpt earlier? [22:59] me too [22:59] if civ is in python, that might be a way for me to learn python 8) [22:59] Krill, hit me up in Yahoo? [22:59] But it's not the same as releasing source code of the game :confused: [22:59] Lies. I'm using Trillian for the win :p [22:59] Locutus, yes, would love to see more though [22:59] Too bad I can't get Civ4 today. :( [22:59] the SDK will be released later on [22:59] well, we [22:59] so, apart from MarkG, which celebs will enter the chat? [22:59] Civ3 was just the opposite, no? Some people got it a couple days earlier [22:59] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +o ACS_DanQ [22:59] * Snotty has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:00] forbidden palace lowers city maintenance [23:00] PARTY! [23:00] I got civ3 earlier 8) not the legal version though :D (bought it of course the day it was released, including all expansions) [23:00] okay, score is interesting, the rest the unimportant for gameplay purposes mostly [23:00] * Nikolai has joined #apolyton [23:00] yeah, 11 pm cet sharp [23:00] why does the 8) not give me the cool dude with sun glases? [23:00] Bye Snotty. [23:00] i must be a real nerd. this is a party and i'm asking for people to paste pieces of python code [23:00] * ACS_MarkG changes topic to 'Civ4 We-Dont-Have-The-Game-So-All-We-Can-Do-Is-Party Party NOW! Celebration Time!!' [23:00] give us soren and sid now! [23:00] I'm Sid, I just use a disguised name so to not cause an uproar. [23:00] lol [23:00] All - how easy is it to get into this Python language? [23:00] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +m [23:01] you will soon enough, sm :) [23:01] moderated for a moment [23:01] Ghenghis: depends on how much you know about programming [23:01] Dan, you have the floor as usual :) [23:01] Hah, i got him off guard [23:01] Not at all. :) [23:01] Welcome to the Apolyton Civ4 Release Party! [23:01] Busy checking odds and ends elsewhere... [23:01] ok you're awake [23:02] Anyway, welcome one and all to Apolyton's "Civilization IV" release party. [23:02] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Fried-Psitalon [23:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [23:02] The official time for this chat is 5PM-7PM EST. [23:02] * settler has left #apolyton [23:02] I will be around for a little while afterwards, as Markos has been around for sometime beforehand. [23:02] Joining Markos and myself from the Apolyton staff is Locutus. [23:02] * iznogood has joined #apolyton [23:02] hello world! [23:02] We would like to welcome both Fried and Trip, both of whom were apart of "CivIV"'s development team. [23:03] * Crowd_starts_chanting_We_Want_ has joined #apolyton [23:03] * Trip tips his hat [23:03] Thank you everyone for attending. A great crowd! [23:03] * Crowd_starts_chanting_We_Want_ has left #apolyton [23:03] * Fried-Psitalon waves a bit. [23:03] Looks like I scared someone off. ;) [23:03] me too, sort of! [23:03] * Crowd_Chants_We_Want_Sid has joined #apolyton [23:03] * Crowd_Chants_We_Want_Sid has left #apolyton [23:04] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: -m [23:04] you can breath now [23:04] Enjoy, but remember... behave! :) [23:04] Party time! [23:04] * Arsonide breathes. [23:04] * CyberShy chants: " We (I) wnat SID" [23:04] that's all you guys had to say? :) [23:04] * Bill3000 pokes [23:04] * sabre2th passes out from lack of oxygen :x [23:04] if we have more celebs we may do a short moderated part to get questions and stuff [23:04] yawn [23:04] yep, chat is over!! [23:04] Short but sweet. [23:04] * Stuie has joined #apolyton [23:05] This isn't a celebration for Apolyton, sm. That's when I get out my really long speeches I'm so famous for. ;) [23:05] Or is it infamous? ;)) [23:05] * Dominae has joined #apolyton [23:05] Both [23:05] CIV4 IS BROKEN OMHG Da Tanks Gots DA BEATS FROM da SpEaRmAn CIV4 IS BROKEN BROKEN blaaaaaaaaa [23:05] hey dominae :) [23:05] Hey Alva! [23:05] ok, that' supposed to be a part of a party like this as well! [23:05] what about that review that said knights beat helicopters [23:05] Hi everyone else! [23:05] hehe [23:05] someone hsa to play yin26! [23:05] What is the largest number of MP players that were in a single game and how did it play? [23:05] @cyber: way ahead of you :p [23:05] Trip...? 18? [23:05] yes [23:05] active players, not bots? [23:05] 18 players [23:06] record was 18, I'm pretty sure, but I don't think that's still supported is it? [23:06] I would kind of like to know how does that work, anyway... Is it just that strength is a logorithmic scale, or is there other factors? [23:06] * yin26 has joined #apolyton [23:06] 12 is the default [23:06] so, has civ2.7 already been released? [23:06] * yin26 is eating some cardbox [23:06] I believe 18 can be achieved by changing the .ini [23:06] How odes it play on dialup? [23:06] lol [23:06] lol [23:06] lol @ yin [23:06] * yin26 dies after eating cardbox [23:06] :cool: [23:06] ah, the ever-famous Yin. [23:06] hehe [23:06] * ali has joined #apolyton [23:06] hahahahahha [23:06] * kuratko has left #apolyton [23:06] has the bandwidth usage been exactly measured during a game? [23:06] Dominae [23:06] Dom [23:06] Now yin... [23:06] Solver not coming? [23:06] that is not yin [23:06] I haven't seen it much but from what I have dialup has worked rather well [23:06] He is here [23:06] Is there a lot of lag on everything like in Civ3, even on lan? [23:06] * yin26 can't play civ2.7 anymore, anybody wants to fancy a copy? [23:06] Krill. [23:06] Up for Humble Pie take 2 in a few weeks? [23:07] * yin26 is not yin [23:07] ah misses-d you :o [23:07] * yin26 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:07] I am amused [23:07] "Unregistered copy..." - does everyone else see that message? [23:07] rule of the internet: nobody is really who they say they are ;) [23:07] * My_Wife_Hates_Civs_Wive has joined #apolyton [23:07] no just you, dominae [23:07] okay, so what is with this delay? they could not press enough copies? [23:07] * Stormhound has joined #Apolyton [23:07] @dominae: yes, me too [23:07] what delay? [23:07] where' s my husband? He must be here :doitnow!: [23:07] I'm sorry, Solver... I believe I forgot to introduce you. Solver is also here from the Apolyton staff. [23:07] yeah, i was really hoping to get it today [23:07] * My_Wife_Hates_Civs_Wive has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:07] we buried them with enthusiastic ordering? :X [23:07] when starting up MIRC? yeah me too [23:07] I think the FedEx guys are sitting in a big warehouse playing our copies on a LAN [23:08] Who' s solver anyway 8) [23:08] A person who solves? [23:08] LOL [23:08] I think I need to kick CyberShy outta here... ;D [23:08] I'm told it will be available in my area on the 27th. [23:08] let ' m solve my video card problem :doitnow!: [23:08] "[23:06] *** yin26 has joined #apolyton [23:08] [23:06] so, has civ2.7 already been released?" [23:08] classic! [23:08] :))))) [23:08] sir, our scientists have discovered the secret of postal service [23:08] dominae it's the java applet , we havent paied for it, (just installed it :)) [23:08] * the_aussie_lurker has joined #apolyton [23:08] lol [23:08] MarkG - ah I see. [23:08] bah [23:08] Markos, I still get an unregistered copy line, so if you paid for it, something is wrong [23:08] that was probably cybershy btw, not yin [23:09] ah, haven' paid, sorry [23:09] hello, hello guys. TAL here :) [23:09] Cyber got pwnt~ [23:09] i couldn't get the java applet to start [23:09] Dan: don't kick me! Kick MArkos instead! [23:09] Krill - Humble Pie 2: anytime man! [23:09] * Darkslayer has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:09] hey aussie [23:09] no, we havent paied :) [23:09] Good luck to you in advance! [23:09] At least I PWND myself 8) [23:09] Dom - if I didn't tell you [23:09] cybershy, the next name trick will get you banned [23:09] Krill is part of the society now. ;) [23:09] Illuminati? [23:09] ah, c'mon, they're funny name-tricks ;) [23:09] i guess most people don't have the IP show [23:09] so FRIED when is the Strategy Guide coming out? [23:09] not a bad idea for a name, actually [23:09] it's a party, the mass shouldn' t be bored! [23:09] The official one, Markos? [23:09] can't stay long, so can I leave some questions with you guys? [23:09] Yes, Fried. :) [23:10] ILL [23:10] I like it. [23:10] I believe it's due out on the 26th [23:10] OK, Aussie. [23:10] Like the Beastie Boys, lol. [23:10] And "My Wife Hates Civs-Wife" was an instand classic as well :doitnow!: [23:10] ah that late! [23:10] So expect it the 28th? [23:10] :p [23:10] CyberShy, then think others will post about what yin said when it wasnt really [23:10] Has Fried's review been posted? [23:10] MWHC is divorced :p [23:10] sirosi, no i'm chatting now :) [23:10] fair warning, my review, like my articles, is Ladderite-MP centric [23:10] it was yin who said that, just not today ;) [23:10] party :) [23:10] OUCH, hope you guys don't have to wait THAT long-I am counting on you for info ;)! [23:11] I hear Fried has some strategy articles up... [23:11] especially on how navies are used [23:11] We're all ILL [23:11] Fine by me Fried. I want to hear about MP. [23:11] going out 1-per-week actually [23:11] * CustodianV131 has joined #apolyton [23:11] * CyberShy wonders if he can party within the rules while not being boring [23:11] Osis - active MP for CIV is what it SHOULD have been for C3C [23:11] navies are what I am most keen to hear about. [23:11] Ah great, Fried, I'm happy to hear that. [23:11] friggin awesome. ;) [23:11] * javauser has joined #apolyton [23:11] Good to hear. C3C pissed me off [23:11] C3C rocked :doitnow!: [23:11] * javauser510 has joined #apolyton [23:11] Ok, I'm 10 minutes late for the party, but I finally got a full translation of the title music finished. No rough translations, exact wording. [23:11] still playing it (unfortunately) [23:11] Active MP is fun. There I've said it. [23:11] You can, CyberShy re: beheave. You don't want detention... [23:12] Oh wait, that's the teacher in me talking. Wrong place/time... ;D [23:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [23:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [23:12] :D [23:12] whats the function of trade routes per city.. do each city have x trade routes and generate money from it? [23:12] * javauser147 has joined #apolyton [23:12] ok, one second I thought you were serious :D [23:12] phew [23:12] I never did say how I defined detention. ;) [23:12] that dude that keeps on saying "######## unregistered copy" should really be banned :doitnow!: [23:12] sm, yeah [23:13] * Mithrander has joined #apolyton [23:13] I want to be prisoned with a copy of civ4 [23:13] (and a working computer) [23:13] @firaxis: are you guys working on a patch already? paradox interactive uses to start on one right after they go gold, so that the small stuff that's found to be needing patching is fixed as soon as possible after release. good feature I say:b: [23:13] but no PC :p [23:13] you also get food, health, etc bonuses [23:13] So did you guys give Ghandi those puppy dogs specifically to make me feel bad about conquering him? [23:13] dunno...Trip? [23:13] puppy dog eyes* [23:13] Ooooh, Paradox... I love Victoria. (= [23:13] * Schmidt has joined #apolyton [23:13] hey, prison would be a great place for a big LAN game [23:13] Trip suddenly goes very quiet :D [23:14] lol [23:14] hehe [23:14] hmm [23:14] I'm doing work ;) [23:14] Classic Soren post: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?postid=4083624#post4083624 [23:14] Only two letters. [23:14] ACS_MarkG can the trade routes be interupted, like how we can pillage improvements? [23:14] on the patch? :p [23:14] yeah right trip;) [23:14] For those just joining us... welcome to Apolyton's "Civilization IV" release chat. [23:14] From ACS staff here is myself, Markos, Locutus and Solver. We're the ops. Don't tick us off. [23:14] Maybe he's trying to get soren to join us *hint* *hint* [23:14] :) [23:14] ohh, even better :)) [23:14] sm, no trade routes are "virtual" [23:14] hey Trip, I was wondering, can units prevent monetary trade entering a city? [23:14] * maverick72 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:14] So, tell us more about civ1, is it true that it's been build by Sid Meier? [23:15] aussie ??? [23:15] ooops, wrong year [23:15] Also with us is Fried and Trip, who were directly involved in "CivIV"'s development. Don't tick them off either... you may not get a copy of the game otherwise. ;)) [23:15] * Mithrander has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:15] i'm not sure about the naval blockade issue..... [23:15] ACS_DanQ: You should get Ming here for the policing. ;) [23:15] ahhh, aussie, one of our most prolific posters ;) [23:15] Can I tick all other chaters of though? [23:15] and can resource trades be blockaeded as in Civ3? [23:15] * Mithrander has joined #apolyton [23:15] Ah great so if a city has say 5 tradesroutes that's it. You don't have to set them up or some give bigger returns then others? [23:15] I'm not sure [23:15] lol @Trip [23:15] I know ships prevent the usage of any ocean tile adjacent to it [23:15] * fimp has joined #apolyton [23:15] well in civ 3 you had to block the route [23:15] if you don't know, then who will. [23:15] or pillage the resources [23:15] so in that sense blockading is better than Civ 3 [23:15] resource trading could be blocked in theory... [23:15] Hey may have a couple of questions ;) [23:15] Weren't Civ2 trade routes manual? What a pain [23:15] Can you start a sim move game and then save it and go to PBEM? [23:16] be pretty tough to do though. [23:16] trip: you better answer him, he is persistant and well spoken hehe [23:16] * maverick72 has joined #apolyton [23:16] sim move game? [23:16] Rasbelin: don't tempt me. :D [23:16] haha [23:16] Simultaneous move [23:16] simultaneous [23:16] Trip: are air units immobile like in civ3? [23:16] yes, I read the forums ;) [23:16] * ChaosLord has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [23:16] * Rhye has joined #apolyton [23:16] meh, slow again :( [23:16] hmm dont think so [23:16] I'm not sure about blockading, honestly [23:16] hey rhye [23:16] Hi Rhye. [23:16] hello [23:16] Air units don't move like normal units, they rebase and have air missions like in Civ 3 [23:16] aren there also turnless-mode in civ4 mp? [23:16] no sym move? [23:17] so, if a trade route is calculated going through a coastal city, it COULD be blocked? [23:17] * ACS_DanQ sets mode: +v Rhye [23:17] wow, that's not good :( [23:17] there's sim-move [23:17] CyberShy, there IS simultaneous moves in civ4 mp [23:17] ah, that's good!! [23:17] i have one question: iz gAmE br0ken? [23:17] thanks [23:17] Fried-Psitalon, is there also turnless-mode? [23:17] aussie: I've never tried [23:17] so, if my game will be shipped tomorrow, when will it arive? (Holland) [23:17] you mean in the C3PTW sense? no. [23:18] it depends on whether the pathfinding takes into account enemy units or not [23:18] * ChaosLord has joined #apolyton [23:18] but is the multiplayer laggy, no matter what your connection, like it was in civ3? [23:18] I would suppose so but have never tested that [23:18] that system never worked properly nayhow. [23:18] turnless was no fun indeed [23:18] Fried-Psitalon, I never played civ3 mp, but turnless sounds like it would solve some problems with sim-moves [23:18] tried it a few times [23:18] in fact, how does the computer decide the 'route' of trade, if thats not too technical? [23:18] sim moves rocks! for mp games [23:18] CS depends on weither the deliveryguy is a Ciffan ;) [23:18] such as? [23:18] Rhye is our earth maker :) [23:18] a ciffan? :D [23:18] * me has joined #apolyton [23:18] Is there a summary screen after each turn in a PBEM to see what units lost? [23:18] And here's my translation that I finished, for those interested: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140531 [23:18] * javauser754 has joined #apolyton [23:18] is trade still based on road, coastal, sea, ocean, then air? [23:19] the earth we're living on? That's quiet a good job Rhye! [23:19] aussie: if you have open borders it looks for cities from that civ [23:19] hehe Isn't it spelled Cifilization then? man, have been wrong all these years :D [23:19] * Arsonide goes back to doing nothing. [23:19] Fried-Psitalon, cant you exploit sim-moves? by moving your units at the end of a turn, and then move them right at the beginning of the next turn? that way you can move twice before your enemy reacts [23:19] larger cities are better [23:19] the larger the city the more revenue it generates [23:19] Fimp - that was a very high priority to be fixed with CIV [23:19] are firaxis making specific plans for the XPs yet?:-) [23:19] fiùp: don't get him started on that.. [23:19] and we did indeed prevent that in a very non-intrusive way. :) [23:19] * rumpo_kid has joined #apolyton [23:19] yes please, I want to spend as much money as possible on civ4 [23:19] You get shocked if you try it [23:19] But when you're attacking another human, whoever is the quickest gets to be the attacker... [23:19] fimp? [23:19] When you start a new civ 4 game, do you find yourself quiting and restarting for a better start? [23:19] now my contract has been extended there's a lot to get from my side! *serious* [23:19] Could you let us know how big the erath is in Civ 4? duel normal huge? [23:19] aside from that, I don't know how trade routes are calculated [23:19] Fried-Psitalon, you were a tester? cool. how did you fix it? [23:20] Lemmy, ? [23:20] you have between 1 and 4 normally [23:20] heh. [23:20] cool, that is VERY good to know trip-is it the same for resource trade, or is that still the capita? [23:20] yeah... I did some uh..testing. :) [23:20] oh, fimp is a user >.> [23:20] * me has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:20] sorry, capital. [23:20] * Trip is now known as FIRAXIS_Trip [23:20] sm - starts are more attractive now in general [23:20] i thought it was yet another new acronym :cute: [23:20] Quite a few of us did testing. :) [23:20] Fried-Psitalon, you're a firaxian? :D [23:20] * NYC29 has joined #apolyton [23:20] I dunno if I count as one or not. [23:20] Firaxis dudes: I like the things I've read about the game! Apparantly a great job! [23:20] You do [23:20] more testers than buyers :D [23:20] another question, will it be possible to mod in extra civics categories? [23:20] Sure he does! [23:20] Paid consultant, I guess.. [23:20] alright. [23:20] Dominae, so its built in now to give the initial start a nice place? [23:20] * Fried-Psitalon is now known as FIRAXIS-Friedrich [23:21] fried, rhye and I are kind of borderline. not regular testers, not firaxians either [23:21] How can you not be a Firaxian if you're paid... [23:21] Us testerscould be Firaxis_QA. :) [23:21] Cyber: it''s the best Civ yet, in my opinion ;) [23:21] zomg, we have celebrities here? [23:21] * Sirian has joined #apolyton [23:21] Agreed with Trip [23:21] Alva is here isn't he? [23:21] sm - You could say that, yes. Almost no "duds", although you might have to reload to get "superb" starts. [23:21] that's great Trip! you've been civing since civ1 as well? [23:21] Definitely the best to date [23:21] we're consultants [23:21] Hey Sirian! [23:21] heya Sirian [23:21] Sirian, you need to change your nick [23:21] andt here's Sirian, another consultant [23:21] So, why the decision to make UN votes only allow you to vote for "good" things, if freedom was the objective, why not vote to fall back to slavery etc? [23:21] Sirian is the guy to ask re: starting locations and map scripts. [23:21] So you think its the best... man revelations here for sure! [23:21] well a superb start isnt needed, its just those duds so to speak [23:21] * ACS_DanQ sets mode: +v Sirian [23:21] Sirian was the Ying to my Yang. :) [23:21] FIRAXIS-Friedrich, cool. can you tell me how you prevented that exploitation of sim-moves? [23:21] so, do you guys need some good Lotus Notes/Domino programmer 8) [23:22] jeez, all we can do is sit here and drool while they are promising us kingdom of heaven... [23:22] * sabrewolf has joined #apolyton [23:22] Change my nick? I don't need a tag. :) [23:22] I could, but I'd have to kill you. [23:22] Cyber: not 1, but 2 [23:22] kidding [23:22] Welcome Sirian. [23:22] and obviously 3 ;) [23:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [23:22] lol [23:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [23:22] ill die happy then [23:22] * iznogood has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:22] Something like rounding up the programmers and locking them in a room sort of thing. ;) [23:22] There is now a timer on units that is about six seconds [23:22] firaxis guys: in your opinion, what's the most important change from earlier Civs to Civ4? [23:22] if a unit moves and exhausts its movement [23:22] civ2 is good enough ;) [23:22] * Rhye is now known as FIRAXIS_Rhye [23:22] even if it refreshes, for about six seconds, it's done [23:22] nikolai: modding [23:22] I agree with Loc [23:22] I've always been a modder at heart [23:22] 99% of the time you won't notice it [23:22] Is it possible to set a persistent (??) server up home as well? [23:23] We need a slower turn timer on the chat! It's scrolling faster than I can read it! (I'm always the last one to finish my turn anyway.) [23:23] there are really too many thigns to list though [23:23] So get an egg counter that counts to 6! [23:23] FIRAXIS-Friedrich, neat! [23:23] what are you talking about Trip? [23:23] but if you try to double move - forget it, the other guy gets a reaction time [23:23] * Chieftess is now known as QA_Chieftess [23:23] * Locutus wonders if he should change his nick to ACS_Locutus or FIRAXIS_Locutus [23:23] can we get to see some more python from the game? [23:23] ahhhhh, type slower!!! [23:23] ;) [23:23] or ACS_Firaxis_Locutus [23:23] that's going to make some MP folks VERY unhappy, actually [23:23] * sabrewolf has left #apolyton [23:23] Hey, Firaxians. [23:23] Firaxis: So, why the decision to make UN votes only allow you to vote for "good" things, if freedom was the objective, why not vote to fall back to slavery etc? [23:23] * Locutus is now known as FIRAXIS [23:23] * sabrewolf has joined #apolyton [23:23] but we figure it will make a lot more SP happy to play MP [23:23] lol loc [23:23] lol [23:23] Locutus is a confused person [23:23] bah, this icky tag [23:23] * sabrewolf has quit IRC (Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]) [23:23] * FIRAXIS-Friedrich is now known as FriedrichPsitalon [23:23] * FIRAXIS is now known as FIRAXIS_ACS_Locutus [23:23] I hate tags. :P [23:23] Is there a summary screen after each turn in a PBEM to see what units lost? [23:23] I'm supposed to be sleeping :( [23:24] * QA_Chieftess is now known as FXS_QA_Chieftess [23:24] Tell me something I don't know, Markos. [23:24] There, we can be the title they gave us. ;) [23:24] dammit, mirc can't handle special characters [23:24] when will I be able to team up against the Firaxis gang? [23:24] FIRAXIS-Friedrich, though 6 seconds doesn't sound like much, it sounds like a good balance [23:24] Wait... that was supposed to be an internal thought. ;) [23:24] * javauser754 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:24] cyber: me too, and I'm even sick... [23:24] Yes, MP definately needs more notification [23:24] * FXS_QA_Chieftess is now known as Chieftess [23:24] Yes! Throw off the yoke of the tag! RUN FREE! =) [23:24] I'll be back in a bit, folks. Behave! [23:24] Markos/Locutus/Solver will have a full report of misbehaviour waiting for me when I get back. [23:24] Fimp - the idea is that a player can see the move and react to it [23:24] ; [23:24] ;)) [23:24] from what Civ3 had anyways [23:24] and six seconds is enough if you're watching for the D-move [23:24] * Mithrander has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:24] FriedrichPsitalon, yeah, im happy with your solution :) [23:24] Clearly, the evildoers who mud the holy name of FIRAXIS with their cheap tags altough they aren't part of the programming team should be banned [23:24] as a VERY avid D-mover in C3C, I can tell you, it's foiled. ;) [23:24] * javauser547 has joined #apolyton [23:24] SirOsis - there is a turn log, not sure how verbose it can get - ask Trip. [23:24] * [ACS]sabrewolf has joined #apolyton [23:24] wow, this is my first chat, and BOY is it hard to keep track ;)! [23:24] Like that solution. No more sneaky double moves [23:24] What's this about start point balance? I missed it. [23:25] FriedrichPsitalon, haha. thats also why some people are upset about the solution? [23:25] there's 72 people here [23:25] I trust it's the record [23:25] fimp- bingo. ;) [23:25] jesus [23:25] I' m thinking about questions I should ask, but I feel like I know everything already. [23:25] Trip - Is there a summary screen after each turn in a PBEM to see what units lost? [23:25] We didn't even have 20 for our last bday party :( [23:25] try reading it in a language not your own ;) [23:25] this chat is going a bit too fast for me as well... [23:25] there's a fair amount in the turn log [23:25] stretch your window vertically [23:25] slow down!!!!!!!!!!! [23:25] Markos is bad at getting people here [23:25] 111 in CFC. Big party all over! [23:25] Tell us something new from the game that we don' know yet :D [23:25] What was the last chat, one for PtW or Conquests? [23:25] Osis: all combat info is in the log [23:25] it's seperated into 3 parts [23:25] chat [23:25] So each city can only have 2 religions right, a major and a minor? [23:25] Chieftess - if the game were released, we'd have 10 people here :) [23:25] Ok sounds good. Much better than C3C then [23:25] event logging and battle logging [23:25] * pulgasari has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [23:25] battle logs include who attacked whom, who hit for how much damage (each round) and who wins [23:25] Having to remeber where my units were got annoying [23:25] it's actually quite extensive [23:26] FIRAXIS_Trip, is paratrooping in the game? [23:26] Trip, did you write the event log? [23:26] paratroops arne't in [23:26] * rumpo_kid waves at erverybody in the room beause ther's no chance of getting a word in edgeways [23:26] no, Alex did [23:26] * DOlVlO has joined #apolyton [23:26] * Sirian waves back! [23:26] solver: why, hard to balance? [23:26] I think I'm going to wait with my questions until I can actually play the game [23:26] Ah, Alex, will he 'round? [23:26] thanks sirian [23:26] Ask Soren [23:26] I think he's busy [23:26] Arsonide - cities can have more than 2 Religions AFAIK. [23:26] heh, YOU ask him:) [23:26] :( [23:26] No problem. I can actually read purple! :) [23:26] Aww, I would think paradroppers could be done well in Civ4. Give them bonus against artillery the like on paradrop(dropping behind lines). [23:26] * pulgasari has joined #apolyton [23:27] Then I can ask "questions" like "why did you make such a bad game?" and "oh no, this game is broken." [23:27] I'm going to bed now( :-( ), make sure there's a log waiting for me tomorrow!;-) [23:27] * Eidalac snikcers [23:27] see you Nikolai :) [23:27] so, when will you guys start on civ5 :D [23:27] When I'm in charge, there ain't gonna be no freedom of religion, nor freedom of anything else either! wah ha ha! [23:27] start??? [23:27] * Nikolai has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:27] if this carries on the log will be several megabytes in size [23:27] almost finished ;) [23:27] cyber, we already are and it will be released next january ;) [23:27] Firaxis- Are you printing up a special edition for Yin, with flavored cardboard? [23:27] :D @ Alva [23:27] <[ACS]sabrewolf> Q: i have seen several scenario screenshots (american civil war, ww2, etc). how many are there in the first release? [23:27] LOL [23:27] Wow, this makes me miss Kali a bunch. (Chance to flag user names to specific colors, so I can focus on what someone is saying.) [23:27] I wish, Osis. ;) [23:28] So, questions for the firaxians :) Is having many religions in your civ good or bad? [23:28] So, why no paratroopers? [23:28] Sabre: American Revolution actually, not Civil War [23:28] @Firaxis: will you use the yin-eating the cardbox video for marketing use? :D:D:D [23:28] lol [23:28] There are a few instances where it could be good or bad to have lots of religions. Generally more good, I'd say though. [23:28] * NYC29 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:28] sabre, 4 scenarios: ancient mediterranean, WWII mediterranean, Earth 1000 AD, US Independence War [23:28] FIRAXIS_Trip, how does the american revolution scenario start? at war or as a colony ? [23:28] Be honest, all of Firaxis will be in front of the live-stream when yin is eating the box :D [23:28] Having a religion in your empire founded by another one... meh... that's not so hot. [23:28] and it's ok if you have founded all the religions i guess [23:28] FriedrichPsitalon, to even out relations? [23:28] It's not bad to have more religions. It can be bad to chase them too hard, though. [23:29] true that.. [23:29] sm: it begins with the war [23:29] I don't like foreign religions in my empire because of the espionage issue. ;) [23:29] <[ACS]sabrewolf> trip: oops, my bad. (ignorant european ;)) ... thanks locutus :) [23:29] * Rommel2D has joined #apolyton [23:29] Fried - think in SP terms re: Religions!! [23:29] miss out on all of tehm ;) [23:29] The British are in Boston with Washington's Continental Army just outside [23:29] Q: Are you guys going to focus on content, or features for expansions, content being new civs, units, etc, and new features being game modes, new interface functions, stuff like that. [23:29] Never. [23:29] * javauser has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:29] Fried always tinks in MP terms :p [23:29] SP... ::shudder:: [23:29] Q: Heh, even though Civ4 just came out, I have to try. Whats planned for expansions, just the normal addon with civs, or something different like what was done with Test of Time for Civ2, to showcase the SDK/modding capabilities. [23:29] ancient meditarrenean is called Greek World [23:29] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +o Rommel2D [23:29] ChaosLord: Same question, lol [23:29] hah [23:29] What kind of combat values do the units exactly have? I mean, what are the differences between an archer and a spearman besides different strength ratings? [23:29] * murosai has joined #apolyton [23:30] I think we should split this chat up into several different rooms... [23:30] * Wot has joined #apolyton [23:30] Unit abilities [23:30] I'm thankful we don't have to wait for a $30 expansion for multiplayer this time around... [23:30] Sometimes I've found it...advantageous for another civ's Religion to spread to my cities. [23:30] Spears are good against X and Y [23:30] way too many people here [23:30] Archers are good against A and B [23:30] roughly speaking. [23:30] Well [23:30] Krill, it's even more peeps at #civfanatics ;-) [23:30] and those abilities are hard coded? [23:30] Don't get too specific [23:30] mark or dan can you mute some people? nothing personeal ;) [23:30] BIG QUESTION: how many helicopters can you kill with one knight? :) [23:30] VJ: definitely not ;) [23:30] archers get city defense bonus, spears get bonus versus horse [23:30] LOL Mark. [23:30] Oh no [23:30] that's true, we're released now, I can answer that directly. hehe [23:31] lol [23:31] Archers get a major bonus defending in cities. That is where they are mostly used. (If you have to rely on them for offense, you're in trouble!) [23:31] * Sir_Og has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [23:31] VJ - Dive right into the XML goodness that is Civ4 modding. :) [23:31] And on Hills. [23:31] goodbye archer rushing [23:31] Guerilla II! [23:31] Thanks a lot, I'm off to my bed! [23:31] * CyberShy has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:31] @Firaxis, sorry to repeat the question, but why no paratroopers? :( [23:31] Woodsman 2 Axeman [23:31] bye Cyber [23:31] Protecting a stack [23:31] yay [23:31] I use archers against barbs, rack up some XP [23:31] hello [23:31] that sounds pretty stupid -- they should be bind on city walls, not on cities [23:31] I love early woodsmen warriors. [23:31] They turn into scouts. :) [23:31] hey, thats not fair the testers and firaxians get a head start on the ladder! :D [23:31] me too ;) [23:31] miss mee [23:31] and take cities, IRC [23:32] you join it, Fimp? :) [23:32] eh, Chieftess? [23:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [23:32] my major pet peeve in civ3 was the city walls + major city bonus; they like quadrupled the defence for even hand to hand combat units like spearmen. [23:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [23:32] Figuratively speaking. [23:32] Aye those 2 move in forests/jungle woodsmen sound nice indeed [23:32] FriedrichPsitalon, yeah, and I see you have cheated ;) [23:32] woodsmen --> more tribes [23:32] @Firaxis: Now I know having tons of cities will make you more primitive but also more numerous, is going either way less advantageous? Small and advanced or populous and primitive? [23:32] actually, I'll tell you why we started it early, but not right now. [23:32] Aussie: Paratroops could have been a valid choice. So could a lot of things, though. We could not include everything, so we had to make choices. No paratroops is a choice. [23:32] Did you want to "punish" either strategy? [23:32] the reason is very legit [23:32] (bad wording) [23:32] * electr0 has joined #Apolyton [23:32] FriedrichPsitalon, ok [23:32] weeee [23:33] I'll promise you a game when we both get release copies, though. :) [23:33] anyone go to there local eb [23:33] Well, can Paratroopers at least be modded in, and could they be in an XP? [23:33] no local EB here :p [23:33] I always tend to play small but advanced in the past Civ games, so that asspect of IV should be very interesting. [23:33] FriedrichPsitalon, i doubt you want to play me, i suck at civ :) i just find it very fun [23:33] Fried's a tough opponent, almost impossible to beat, so watch out. ;) [23:33] you can mod ANYTHING in, I think. heh [23:33] alva [23:33] * fd has joined #apolyton [23:33] where did you go? [23:34] I am the MP idiot-savant, yar. [23:34] * adarel has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:34] ? [23:34] mostly idiot, slightly savant [23:34] I have no idea what's going in to the Xpacks yet. Well, other than the near-certainty of more civs and leaders. [23:34] My hero! [23:34] you can mod in paratroopers, but adding new unit commands will take a bit of work [23:34] did you look anywere for civ [23:34] <[ACS]sabrewolf> another question: games which are only 1 hour (i guess to catch non-hardcore civers): is that on "duel" world size? and how many "tiles" is duel, standard and huge? [23:34] First thing I'm modding in is stealth missionaries (can cross closed borders) Name: Heretic. [23:34] the_aussie_lurker, i bet it can be modded in.. have an event teleport the unit [23:34] cause while I was at eve I saw the xbox 360 [23:34] not yet, I will later :) [23:34] * electr0 concludes that anybody here doesnt have the game, since civ4-in-hand=no chat time [23:34] * Ghenghis has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:34] Untrue, Electro [23:34] lol [23:34] I just remember Fried in the C3C lobby throwing out challenges left and right. I thought his ego knew no limits :) [23:34] playing a ladder game righ tnow. :) [23:34] wow, Gamestop and EB are the same thing... [23:34] There's a ladder? [23:34] FIRAXIS_ACS_Locutus, how much work do you mean for adding new unit commands? [23:34] yea [23:34] Question: Adding new screens, for example for new ingame tools, how hard would that be? [23:35] Firaxis: Tell me about Catapults. [23:35] Osis - I've realized I don't really need to prove anything anymore. :) [23:35] * Stormhound has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:35] gamespot bought eb out [23:35] Speaking of map sizes - is there a "Custom" option? [23:35] Yes, there is a ladder... [23:35] gameSPOT or gameSTOP? [23:35] www.myleague.com/civ4players [23:35] stop [23:35] Sweet [23:35] * fimp couldnt beat monarch in civ3 :O [23:35] * rumpo_kid considers that electr) is right [23:35] I don't know exactly, sm, I gave up on it. had too much more important stuff to do [23:35] Oh yeah, is there an ability to add multiple maps or planets in? I loved those Civ2 scenarios that spanned worlds. [23:35] wow that complicated... [23:35] * Rave has joined #apolyton [23:35] lemmy, that's very easy [23:35] I know how they could make an expansion to this game [23:36] make a smac [23:36] heh [23:36] that is totally attacked to this game [23:36] the WWII scenario actually adds one or two new (small) UI elements [23:36] attached [23:36] * Alva SMACs Fireforge ;) [23:36] Dominae: Catapults require no resources, so they are always an important early unit. Actually, they are more of a Classical age unit, concurrent with Crossbow and Mace, but at the front of the wave. [23:36] neat, I had an excuse to plug the ladder. hehe [23:36] SMAC was huge, why never a sequel? [23:36] but i have been described as "big man on campus" ; ) [23:36] there you go ;) [23:36] Agree with Sirian. :) [23:36] Adam, did it sell? [23:36] but never as "one of the smartest kids on campus" .... hehehe... [23:36] Sirian - thanks. [23:36] I mean [23:36] Not what I wanted to know, but thanks. :lol: [23:36] What's the official word on the pitboss; what's it do and when will it be complete? [23:37] I don't remember. All I remember is it winning about every reward. [23:37] @FP: like you need an excuse :p ;) [23:37] like make civ IV : space version [23:37] SMAC was nice, but the AI didn't do a good job managing stuff [23:37] Alva, true, but it's nice to ahve one [23:37] you signing up? :) [23:37] With the huge defence bonusses cities can gather the bombardment unints seems very important indeed. [23:37] back to civ4... [23:37] ;) [23:37] Dominae: Catapults can damage whole stacks. They change the tactical landscape completely. But they can no longer attack at no risk to themselves. In fact, they often have to be suicided for the cause. [23:37] no, not yet anyway [23:37] Sirian: not WHOLE stacks ;) [23:37] <[ACS]sabrewolf> Q: games which are only 1 hour (i guess to catch non-hardcore civers): is that on "duel" world size? and how many "tiles" is duel, standard and huge? [23:37] haven't played any MP to be honest :o [23:37] unless you think Horse Archers can retreat :) [23:38] Trip: how much of a stack!? [23:38] <[ACS]sabrewolf> (sorry for repeating... it got missed the first time) [23:38] * fimp couldnt even beat Regent in civ3, he now realizes [23:38] alva where are you from to not have an eb [23:38] Sabre- my fastest complete game... [23:38] 18 minutes on duel [23:38] depends on the unit [23:38] ::shrug:: [23:38] Belgium [23:38] * pulgasari has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [23:38] Trip: Enough of them, the whole stack will be damaged. [23:38] can other units retreat as well as cavalry [23:38] * javauser has joined #apolyton [23:38] against Jesse Smith, actually [23:38] * FriedrichPsitalon grins evilly. [23:38] lol [23:38] 18 minutes! [23:38] nobody here likes playing against me [23:38] You were defeated that quickly? ;) [23:38] Q: How willing is the AI to take a loss? Will it attack a stronger unit it to weaken it so other units under its control can kill it? Or will it always wait until it can beat it one on one? [23:38] because they always think I'm going to kill them [23:38] I usually do [23:38] That's because you're never around. :p [23:38] LOL [23:38] * PeterT has joined #apolyton [23:38] <[ACS]sabrewolf> F-P: whoa! and there you were trying to convince me that rushing is greatly reduced *lol* [23:38] Wow, who is this Jesse Smith guy anyway!? [23:38] So, in multiplayer will it be probable to win peacefully? Not possible, probable. [23:39] Sabre - it was [23:39] hey, peter! [23:39] yes [23:39] that game was part of WHY it was reduced [23:39] For units that can retreat, and option whether you want to or not would be nice. [23:39] Jesse Smith = Producer [23:39] hey Fried, you up for a game later? ;) [23:39] * gramphos has joined #apolyton [23:39] Arsonide, you can turn on always peace :) [23:39] if you want a whoopin, Trippie. ;) [23:39] haha [23:39] Jesse Smith = Ed norton ;) [23:39] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +o gramphos [23:39] * javauser has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:39] another staff member! like we didn't have enough already! :p hi viktor [23:39] * FIRAXIS_Rhye has left #apolyton [23:39] Hi, Locutus [23:39] <[ACS]sabrewolf> F-P: ah ok, cool! and what is the tile count? [23:39] don't underestimate your foe [23:39] looking at porn doesn't define me as a person... it's just something i do every once in a while... [23:39] Rub it in Trip! Need more salt? :D [23:40] i believe i speak for all of us when I say; firaxis u rock! :) [23:40] * Thorn has joined #apolyton [23:40] question for FIRAXIANS... are you going to open bugtracking for the public? [23:40] thanks magnus [23:40] Trip- I don't. I just like giving YOU crap. :) [23:40] just me? ;) [23:40] Don't we all? ;) [23:40] I hereby claim this in my name [23:40] Sabre - can't say that I know exactly [23:40] hi [23:40] Duel is QUITE compact though [23:40] hi gramphos [23:40] Hi Gramphs ;) [23:40] some form of contact within 10 turns is not unusual. [23:40] I prefer tiny for 1v1, myself. ::shrug:: [23:40] Thorn: If I stop relations with Locutus and give you some dyes, could you give it back? [23:40] grendel, there will be reports coming in from the fan sites to firaxis.... [23:41] oh I suppose... I am in a generous mood today [23:41] Hi, Gramphos [23:41] [goodnight everyone] [23:41] * Gordon has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:41] * murosai has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [23:41] Hail, Christoph! [23:41] Hi bill [23:41] * rumpo_kid goes for ciggie - back in ten minutes [23:41] Trip- you on the ladder? :) [23:41] And I just randomly wanted to say that. [23:41] Does Duel still feel like a Civ game or is it just a fun quick MP option? [23:41] FriedrichPsitalon, is the roundtimer the same in ancient age as in modern age? [23:41] ACS_MarkG: yes, as usual, but that's not as efficient as collecting/categorizing those before Firaxis is bombarded with hundreds of identical bugs... [23:41] not yet [23:41] fimp- it adjusts based on various criteria [23:41] * rumpo_kid has left #apolyton [23:41] with 5 settings as well, life is good for those who don't like to be rushed, but don't have all week [23:41] I remember my time last summer there well ;) [23:41] Does anyone here currently own the game? [23:41] i c [23:42] or was it 2 years ago? [23:42] I don't remember any more [23:42] 2 years ago, amigo [23:42] :O [23:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [23:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [23:42] Hey Settler. [23:42] Doh. [23:42] well, already missed one bus so I had better get going now ;)! [23:42] grendel, having a categorization is good idea, maybe we'll do it without firaxis asking for it :) [23:42] seeya later guys, enjoy the rest of the chat :)! [23:42] cya [23:42] Cya Aussie! [23:42] * Schmidt has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:42] peace [23:42] technically no one here owns the game... [23:42] How long has Civ4 been in development? [23:43] * the_aussie_lurker has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:43] 14 years [23:43] A while [23:43] 3 years [23:43] * javauser547 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:43] how time flies [23:43] wow [23:43] 3 years [23:43] * javauser547 has joined #apolyton [23:43] Does anyone here own a copy of the game? [23:43] Other than Trip? [23:43] firaxians, firaxis consultants (that's me and half a dozen others), beta testers and game reviewers, but that's all so far it seems... [23:43] I found one in a dumpster. [23:43] haha [23:43] the final version, remember [23:43] is that automated Loc? ;) [23:43] I was looking for food though so I threw it back. [23:43] Think this will be the last one? With Civ3 I figured, this has to be the end. [23:43] ACS_MarkG: are you familiar with open source CMS development like postnuke, Xaraya et al? Same applies to Firefox/Thunderbird, and works quite well... [23:43] yes, I used it at least a dozen times already today :) [23:43] Think so ;à [23:43] My stormtroopers could acquire a copy... but that depends on whether I have remembered to pay them..... [23:44] I can't wait until tommarow [23:44] Arsonide - the box IS food! [23:44] * javauser547 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:44] wow [23:44] * Mithrander has joined #apolyton [23:44] Oh, they didn't label it as food. >:( Maybe if I hurry I can go get it again. [23:44] Locutus: Do you have a later version than the other beta testers, given your extra work? [23:44] did anyone see the translation to the civ theme song [23:44] Just ask Yin26. ;) [23:44] grendel, know any good bug tracking system? i only know mantis... [23:44] yes, I have a later version. v90 I think. thereabouts anyway [23:44] fireforge112: good question, I was wondering myself... [23:44] fireforge112: Yeah I made it [23:44] lol [23:44] 90!? [23:44] V90??? [23:44] ACS_MarkG, PM o.k.? [23:45] :( [23:45] ok [23:45] arsonide: you translated it [23:45] thats kinda odd they used the lords prayer [23:45] Grendel: It's on the forum [23:45] * biru has joined #apolyton [23:45] damn [23:45] Why's it odd? The addition of religion [23:45] * Canuck has joined #Apolyton [23:45] * Eli has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:45] hey canuck :) [23:45] isnt the bible tm'ed [23:45] Hiya Canuck. [23:45] =P [23:45] Hey CS ;) [23:45] hey Mark [23:45] * electr0 is waiting so hard for the game so his stomach hurts(done for three days now...... the expectation ....) [23:45] hey Alva [23:46] hey CS [23:46] * fd has left #apolyton [23:46] hey krill [23:46] * Kailes[G] has quit IRC (Quit: Verlassend) [23:46] So this is an expansion pack for Civ2 right? [23:46] CS doesn't like me... [23:46] electr0: that's part of the fun [23:46] yup thorn [23:46] I might have gotten one of the background lyrics wrong, but I doubt it. [23:46] <[ACS]sabrewolf> thorn: it's civ2.8 ;) [23:46] @ Dom: Noone does :p ;) [23:46] ya I'm ignoring you Dom [23:46] Good I've been waiting for one.... [23:46] <[ACS]sabrewolf> thorn: some people think so ;) [23:46] Bah, goodbye. [23:46] lol [23:46] civ 2.4 [23:46] * Dominae has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:46] lol [23:47] lol [23:47] He was serious! lol [23:47] Then what was ToT, then? :p [23:47] TOT, *cough* never heard of it, all those that have have since vanished lol [23:47] * harrier has joined #apolyton [23:47] hey guys [23:47] I cant believe noone has leaked one yet [23:47] Erm, what's ACS stand for? Apolyton Civilization Staff? [23:47] yes [23:47] Apolyton Civiliation Site :p [23:47] <[ACS]sabrewolf> ... Site [23:47] Oh [23:47] oh I want to be staff [23:47] site, yes [23:47] lol, that should be fun [23:47] EVC being staff? HAHAHAHAHA [23:47] how about a mod for the Offtopic [23:48] * Bill3000 snickers [23:48] anyone see the x box 360 on the trek to find civ 4 [23:48] Let's get Zylka on the board too while we're at it :D [23:48] so TRIP, what did you really do in civ4? :) [23:48] play.. :cute: [23:48] :shame: @ markos for not knowing [23:49] civ4 hmm...... sounds familiar are you sure this one hasn't been out yet? [23:49] * biru has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:49] Dom not back yet?? [23:49] FIRAXIS_Trip: you dont have a SMAC 2 in your company sleeves somewhere? [23:49] SMAC 2 would be beyond awesome [23:49] Hey, give Mark a benefit of the doubt, he might have just asked this for the enlightenment of the masses, right ;) [23:49] As would Colonization 2 [23:49] various programming stuff from general systems to interface and scenario design and implimentation [23:49] Bill3000: I DO AGREE :) [23:49] Coloization 2 would be great [23:49] i'm doing the interviewer here [23:49] Although I would bet we could make mods in Civ4 with it [23:49] colonization never caught me [23:49] how would you improve colonization though? [23:49] electr0: [23:49] Trip: How many Python erros didd you fix? ANd how many did you add? [23:49] no comment [23:49] (you guessed it) [23:49] its fun was the trade and education [23:49] * rumpo_kid has joined #apolyton [23:49] * harrier has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:50] gramphos: I fixed as many as I added, at least, that's the plan :) [23:50] oooh, that's better [23:50] same way Civilization keeps being improved [23:50] that was a very wise answer :) [23:50] Yeah or Master of Magic 2... oh wait wrong company :) Wouldn't mind Firaxis making it though... would be ace [23:50] we beat Trip like a slave :P [23:50] Hrm, is the new moddability powerful enough to do a SMAC Total Conversion? [23:50] <[ACS]sabrewolf> is there terraforming included? in one of the ancient civ games you could build hills with engineers. is something like this possible or is it like civ3 where only overlays (forest, jungle) can change? [23:50] OOOO does that mean this gets posted officially.......... cool You are my slaves bwahahaha...... see that in a civ column [23:50] * is_jahanzeb has joined #apolyton [23:50] I thought fix one, break two was the rule... [23:50] CustodianV131: fortumately the modding is good :) [23:50] arsonide: yeah, sure with the SDK it is [23:50] * birubiru has joined #apolyton [23:50] no terraforming [23:50] :b [23:50] you can do a fair bit of a SMAC conversion even without the SDK [23:51] Your Thoughts on C4: Alpha Centauri? [23:51] have to get creative with some things [23:51] Trip: Aye, there's hope! Was amazed what people managed with Civ3 already, this should even be better! [23:51] or colonization mod [23:51] http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/data/929999.html [23:51] try that game [23:51] yes, a fair bit, but not an exact clone, which is what people seem to be after [23:51] It'd be awesome to win the space race in civ4, then you look out your window to earth, which blows up cause the people you left behind got mad at each other...then a game of SMAC starts. [23:51] * harrier has joined #apolyton [23:51] CustodianV131: yes, I'm very excited to see what people are able to come up with [23:51] FIRAXIS_ACS_Locutus, if not an exact clone.. what kind of features couldnt make it in a conversion pack? [23:52] <[ACS]sabrewolf> so will waterstorm create a watercolour graphics mod? ;) [23:52] there's a lot of talented people in the modding community and even more will be attracted [23:52] FIRAXIS_Trip: :) [23:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [23:52] FIRAXIS_ACS_Locutus, just looking to see what kind of upper limits the SDK has [23:52] speaking of games taking forever to come out anyone have any news on Duke Nukem forever, It has supposed to be out since like 1996..... ROTF [23:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [23:52] it will be one of the best games for modding and players who enjoy mods [23:52] @Sabre: he said he wouldn't [23:52] * is_jahanzeb has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:52] unit workshop would need the SDK, don't really see a way of converting it fully with just python [23:52] Hey guys :) [23:52] hi [23:52] Civ is already a long game. I can't imagine giving it a bunch of extra eras and dragging it out. Wouldn't SMAC be better played from scratch than from the end of a Civ game? [23:52] Thorn: I've heard DNF is coming out soon ;) [23:52] wow, we could add a unit workshop? [23:52] but as trip said, you can do a lot with python [23:52] ITs great you guys are so active in supporting the modding community. Smart also! keeps people lots of reason to keep playing the game and telling firends about it [23:52] Speaking of that, I didn't see if anyone answered my question. Will multiple maps/planets be possible? IE, switching from one to the other and back in the same game to show colonization of another planet for a sci-fi scenario or an underworld in a fantasy scenario. [23:52] Locutus: you could get creative and mimic the Unit Workshop in Python [23:53] The SDK is great, but many things can be done without it. [23:53] Python is really powerful too. [23:53] ChaosLord - I'm sure it would be posible with te SDK, although not the easiest thing [23:53] Nice. [23:53] what are the limits then? [23:53] TOT style [23:53] Yeah I still have my preorder slip...... I wonder if I'll get something special for pre-ordering for like 8 years [23:53] I think python could do just about anything if you're willing to call 3rd other processes and do memory editing with them [23:53] what can we not change? [23:53] Ah, good. [23:53] some things would be somewhat round-about but it's still possible [23:53] wow, whole gang's here. hehe [23:53] Limits? For the most part, skills and time [23:53] Yeah birubiru, I loved ToT. [23:53] You could turn this into a RTS with the SDK you know [23:53] limits as to what we couldnt change [23:54] Trip: I don't think you can fully copy it. you might get something similar though, I agree that that would be possible. but it certainly wouldn't be pretty [23:54] Ever seen what people did with the Half-Life SDK? Chess games, car racing... [23:54] to get unit workship you could do something fun like have a screen come up after building a unit (or whatever) and then picking a model [23:54] then you delete the old unit and add a new one in its place with that customized form [23:54] not too hard at all [23:54] Solver You could turn this into a RTS with the SDK you know Blashemy!!!! [23:54] Grab the SDK and make Civ4 a budget FPS. [23:54] * Arsonide shudders. [23:54] Doom4 [23:54] Sid Meier's Half-Doom 4, actually [23:54] Doom4: The Missionary's Revenge! [23:54] it would still be better than Doom3 [23:54] hehe [23:54] OMG [23:54] My brain isn't fast enough for RTS's... [23:54] Eat vegetarian CURRY! [23:54] sounds really promising [23:54] SDK ? [23:55] what is SDK ? [23:55] Software develoment kid [23:55] <[ACS]sabrewolf> software development kit [23:55] Software Development Kit. [23:55] Adam, rather your finger, eh? [23:55] haha [23:55] alva [23:55] RTS ends up being a "click fest" [23:55] kdi [23:55] woohoo, I won!! [23:55] kid [23:55] Software Development Kidder.... cause most companies never release it [23:55] We could even make players research techs in Doom 4, the starter tech could be "Flashlight duct-taping techniques". [23:55] it's not fun but whoever is fastest... [23:55] Yeah it's a kid that comes with the game he makes mods for you. [23:55] Yeah, the kid's name is Trip. :p [23:55] lol [23:55] knowing my luck [23:55] <[ACS]sabrewolf> alva: no, yours was just a kid ;) [23:55] ill get a retarded one [23:55] Sirian calls everyone youunger than 30 Kid, I think ;) [23:55] turn based has more strategy potential... [23:55] if you want a clickfest you don't need to mod CIV....AoE3 is out :p [23:55] yea, and the computer is always the fastest [23:56] Quake4's machinegun has a flashlight :) [23:56] heh [23:56] I didn't really like AoE3, and I'm pretty accepting of RTS's, it's basic barebones RTS though. [23:56] I prefer DoW [23:56] Actually, I call everyone younger than ME a kid -- if they were in school when I got to know them. :) [23:56] Quake4 mod for civ4 sounds interesting [23:56] DoW is fun. [23:56] Sirian, you could just shorten the game from the ancient to the modern era to allow for the SMAC eras [23:56] yeah [23:56] Battles are great to watch. [23:56] AOE3 is weird [23:56] Arsonide: the artillery is awesome :) [23:57] fight your own wars instead of stupid chance-based combat systenm [23:57] Yeah, Earthshaker rounds = win. [23:57] Age 2 was impressive back in teh day... [23:57] 04WARNING THIS CHAT WILL SELF DESTRUCT IN 5 SECONDS [23:57] 1 Earthshaker round = 50 dead orks, and that's probably a reasonable estimate. [23:57] boom? [23:57] how does artillery work, is it a bombard like 3, or... [23:57] fimp: That wouldn't be my cup of tea, but almost anything is possible in Civ4 with enough modding and elbow grease. [23:57] i'd like to see a spearman beat a tank in Quake4 :D [23:57] But yeah, back to Civ4 :/ [23:57] * PeterT has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [23:57] good... i will create a Indian revolution against british empire mod... [23:57] 01how about a spearmen beat a battleship, that aws always my favorite [23:58] personally, I'd like to see a version of CIV using the Savage: Battle for New Erth model. [23:58] * FIRAXIS_Rhye has joined #apolyton [23:58] IF you see what one guy is up to in most FPS games a spearmen beating a tank is a non issue actually :D [23:58] the fun part will be the research ... ; ) [23:58] I'm known for being weird, though. [23:58] Now where is that Soren guy [23:58] aw [23:58] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v FIRAXIS_Rhye [23:58] CustodianV131, hehe [23:58] who? ;) [23:58] or a persistent civ server [23:58] your prolly right [23:58] so I understand the battles are much like, in the pirates' land battles, what could you say about that? [23:58] thanks [23:58] ?! [23:58] Well I'd say are you guys worried about the Rise of Nations series, but they went off and started doing flying dragons and magic genies and stuff... [23:58] one huge map with the ending year 60000 ad [23:58] Rave, where'd you get that idea? [23:58] Probably to avoid competition with you guys and Empire Earth. [23:58] so Rhye, will you posting any earth1000 strategies? :) [23:58] anyone here from the USA ? [23:59] Yes. [23:59] 01No I'm from Mars, but I have a VISA [23:59] Oklahoma, USA here. [23:59] ...i'm not the best person to do that [23:59] An hour into the party. Any stumbling drunks? [23:59] i'm a lower than average player [23:59] multiple unit guys, and has the same engine. well they looked a bit familiar to civ series anyway [23:59] sir, no but I think DanQ passed out ;) [23:59] * Alva gets another beer [23:59] lol [00:00] Dan had a real life arrangement :) [00:00] Dan is goen ;) [00:00] what kind of beer you drinking alva [00:00] Pfft, alcohol. [00:00] * ChaosLord drinks some more Cherry Coke. [00:00] 01arrangement other then Civ, OMG I'm stunned [00:00] * Arsonide takes a swig of Mountain Dew. [00:00] Has Frieds review been posted? [00:00] * Arsonide falls over drunk. [00:00] Another approach then: can you win with the aztecs??? [00:00] With the Aztecs? Sure. [00:00] hehe [00:00] You all needs to get thne cupthat cheers - tea [00:00] You can win with any civ. [00:00] on earth 1000! [00:00] have you read that may people feel the Jaguar is underpowered Fried? [00:01] * electr0 must go to bed now.. work in six hours :( [00:01] many people are foolish. :) [00:01] firaxis ? [00:01] So the Indians will be horrible at fighting, right? [00:01] * Adam has left #Apolyton [00:01] Yeah fun that. [00:01] Oh? On earth 1000AD? Hey, we need the full question to give the right answer! [00:01] Well I've also said it before that the Jag's really weak, then again, at least it has the city attack bonus, so it's ok [00:01] the evil that work is [00:01] what is the indians special unit ? [00:01] :p [00:01] I'm glad that the jag is at strength 5 [00:01] Sorry if this has been asked already........but can you add more Civics options via Mods? [00:01] Fast Worker [00:01] elephant ? [00:01] * JustinZ has joined #apolyton [00:01] Jag's real str= 5.5 [00:01] most people miss that fact [00:01] They get a worker, it's faster. [00:01] Can you give me stats on the Keshik? [00:01] night all [00:01] Then again, a Greek Swordsman = 6.6 [00:01] To sleep, I go... [00:01] night krill [00:01] bye krill [00:02] Jag's still 1.1 points weaker [00:02] * REmconius has joined #apolyton [00:02] * Krill has quit IRC (Quit: ) [00:02] we'll have the raw log posted asap [00:02] And Greek Swords vs. city = 7.2 [00:02] FriedrichPsitalon, can religion somehow have an impact on your relationships with other civs in multiplayer as well? [00:02] tal, you can certainly add more options. if you want to add more categories you have the change the UI quite a bit to fit them in, but I'm fairly sure it can be done [00:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [00:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [00:02] only if someone's roleplaying. ;) [00:02] ok [00:02] Greek Sword = needs iron [00:02] needs to be hooked up [00:02] lol that would be interesting [00:02] the early UUs are always tricky [00:02] Let's talk resources then [00:02] Aztec Jag = right out the door as soon as the tech is done [00:02] 12Hi all [00:02] hi [00:02] How is the resource placement? [00:02] Yeah, but in the case you do have that Iron, you're going to regret having a weaker unit [00:02] 01Hey I should a free game, I could have sworn I created the first greek civ site [00:02] Thanks [00:02] Especially if Iron is somewhere very close [00:02] nah, then you just pillage the crap out of them and hide in the jungle [00:02] Oh yeah, is there any hardcoded limit as far as the number of civs you can have in a game goes? Is it 32 again?(Think thats what Civ3s was) [00:03] but with any UU there's a gamble [00:03] you gamble with Rome if you don't get iron [00:03] Solver: and how often do you have iron within the borders of your first two cities? [00:03] in this case, you just gamble if you DO get iron [00:03] I don't know about you but I'm rarely so lucky ;) [00:03] FriedrichPsitalon: I saw a screenshot of a guy "hiding" in the jungle, the trees went up to his knees. :/ [00:03] Not very often, usually Copper very close though [00:03] there ya go [00:03] 01Markos, look around the turks are invading...... (methinks he ignores me still to this day) Lol [00:03] * ChsThry has joined #apolyton [00:03] But I attack whoever I see is closest to Iron anyway [00:03] did the units got scaled down from the last beta to v1? [00:03] the advantage of the Jag as FP said is the ability to get them out immediately 100% of the time [00:03] I'm th wrong guy to complain to, Arsonide - I love the graphics. :) [00:04] * JustinZ has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:04] Not complaining [00:04] It's just kind of funny [00:04] Markos, they did get scaled down recently, not sure in what build though [00:04] you can be assured of bringing that unit to the battle as soon as you get the tech [00:04] Well the earlier builds had bigger units [00:04] much better than not being able to find your units [00:04] * Fred has joined #apolyton [00:04] has anyone been nuked by the AI yet? [00:04] Ohhh, Aeson here, the mighty! [00:04] Back. Hi (again) one and all. [00:04] * blake has joined #apolyton [00:04] The graphics are a whole new beast INSIDE the game, where everything is animated. These graphics aren't so photogenic. They don't come as well in a still shot. [00:05] Hello every one [00:05] 01DannyQ how's it going? [00:05] blake: hi [00:05] Yeah looking forward to seeing Civ come alive! [00:05] i think my wallpaper is a Lion not a tiger... hehehe [00:05] oooh cool. hi. [00:05] Good, thanks Thorn. Yourself? [00:05] How is the resource placement? [00:05] 01Ah he remembers me, methinks [00:05] That's got to be a weird almost artistic style, an animated world in a turn based game, the trees sway, the units move around (in their squares), yet nothing is moving very far. [00:05] resources are placed much better than Civ 3 [00:05] using a lowercase a is good camo [00:05] he tries too though... [00:05] gods i wish i didn't have to wait until next week for Civ4. [00:05] I suppose that's a matter of personal preference though ;) [00:05] Which adds another question on to my last one about the civ limit for Civ4, how much of the graphical options and such can be turned off for those with low-end computers? [00:05] It should be good. Are the cities animated at all, other than graphics for unrest/pollution? [00:06] Resources aren't TOO available, are they? [00:06] Turn on single-unit graphics [00:06] Big preformance boost [00:06] chaos, many options can be turned off for a much faster game [00:06] I liked my resource wars in Civ3 [00:06] Stuie- I'm wishing I had a metal right now in my current game. :) [00:06] Stuie: depends on the map size [00:06] 01is this going to require SLI to work? [00:06] are there any resource wars initiated by the AI ? [00:06] are the developers here yet ? [00:06] there are definitely be cases where you'll be missing something though [00:06] Is there a resource setting when starting a game, such as sparce, abundant, etc? [00:06] i have a question... [00:06] any options added for the release? [00:06] Ah, alright. [00:06] Cool. [00:06] ChaosLord: you can turn off a few things, including unit/improvement/bonus animations and make the multi-units into a single figure [00:06] 01am I going to have to buy like 2 graphics card with Scalable Link Interface in order to play this game? [00:06] Solver reviews along with pictures post were great -thank you [00:06] will civ 4 run on Intel's extreme 3d 2 ? [00:06] reduce the resolution quality of a couple things [00:06] Thanks [00:06] will civ 4 run on Intel's extreme 3d 2 ? [00:06] sadaiya: what do you think those FIRAXIS prefixes are for? ;) [00:07] What about the civ limit for Civ4, is it hardcoded at 32 civs like Civ3 was? [00:07] how come we have only seen one online review so far? [00:07] * maverick72 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:07] Ohhh Locutus likes his prefix now :) [00:07] * javauser has joined #apolyton [00:07] afaik the ign one is the only, right? [00:07] will civ 4 run on Intel's extreme 3d 2 ? [00:07] Locutus: To make your names unnecessarily longer? :) [00:07] will civ 4 run on Intel's extreme 3d 2 ? [00:07] ... [00:07] @solver: lol [00:07] sadaiya_g: Does it have hardware T&L? [00:07] it's on my laptop... [00:07] how are the resources quantified? is it like Civ3? [00:07] sadaiya calm down [00:07] no it doesn't [00:07] Very extreme indeed then [00:07] Sirian, you got that right :) [00:07] Like most laptop VGA cards [00:07] Then I don't think it will, hardware T&L is a minimum requirement. [00:08] it's this cheap 3d card that a lot of laptops and desktops are shipping with now [00:08] 01Oh if I start get excited does that mean Markos will say a word to me........!!! [00:08] allo tout le monde ! [00:08] Is there any 64 bit support in Civ4? I mean the graphics aren't that intensive but I'd assume 64 bit would help with keeping track of the massive world. [00:08] Solver did you help program Civ4 [00:08] fimp: I'm sure other online gaming portals are working on getting their review together. [00:08] Can't be any more specific than that unless you ask particular ones and get a response. [00:08] No :) [00:08] but it doesn't compare with Nvidia and Radeon... [00:08] @thorn, yeahn he will :'kicked' :p ;) [00:08] Well maybe some are taking longer to play the release version. [00:08] 01grrr.... darn [00:08] Aha [00:08] The IGN guy played on Chieftain [00:08] And had a really deep insight [00:08] pathetic. :P [00:08] :rolleyes: [00:08] n00b :p [00:08] the game has been gold for less than a week, it takes a while to send out the CDs, have the reviewers play the game and have them write a review... [00:09] Does the Civ4 collectors edition come with cookies? [00:09] And even after playing a week they are quite useless [00:09] mmmm.... cookies... [00:09] no, just mints. [00:09] 01He wouldn't dare kick me anyways, my army of the Troop of Toads would get 'em.......lol [00:09] <[ACS]sabrewolf> hey guys. it [00:09] ACS_DanQ, yeah... [00:09] A non-civver wouldn't spot the most horrible balance problems that any civver would see [00:09] * antiEntropist has joined #apolyton [00:09] huH / [00:09] ? [00:09] you don't learn civ4 in a week for starters [00:09] yes u do [00:09] <[ACS]sabrewolf> sorry, went off to early... i wanted to ask whether there will be a transscript of this chat. even in raw data format [00:09] There's no such thing as a non-"Civ"er, Solver. That's just crazy talk. ;) [00:10] sabre, yes [00:10] i think the learning curve is 2 days [00:10] 01hey Frixas person, any bit of realism for say such thing as terrorism in the game, since it is such a big thing now? [00:10] Unfortunately there is, and these folks exist on gaming portals [00:10] I'm logging [00:10] * Feeroper has joined #apolyton [00:10] Pffft, 2 days [00:10] <[ACS]sabrewolf> locutus: cool, thanks :b: [00:10] terrorism ala Half Life [00:10] Hope Civ 4 will spawn a lot new "Civvers" :) [00:10] Solver: what then? 1 hour? 10 minutes? [00:10] A month? [00:10] hehe [00:10] awesome [00:10] If you understand the basic concepts it dosn't mean you know the game [00:10] people that are picking up their first computer game ever will be hooked 4 life... [00:10] * javauser has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:11] and unlearn Civ3 ;) [00:11] * harrier has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:11] there are civvers and those who will be civvers [00:11] * ali has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:11] IIRC, Civ was my first PC game. [00:11] always was a civer [00:11] Actually, time for me to get someone else hooked on Civ [00:11] Uh-oh... what does that say about the rest of us, sadaiya? [00:11] ;) [00:11] IRC still is popular [00:11] Terrorism kills dozens or maybe hundreds and grabs headlines. Wars kill tens of thousands, or even millions, and this is represented by several of your units being killed off. How would you model terrorism? It's insignificant on that scale. [00:11] how to get your wife to enjoy civ [00:11] * Backpack has joined #apolyton [00:11] Gramphos has done the poisoning diplomat mod :) [00:11] 01not necessarly.... there are always WOMD [00:12] and terrorism has a way of upsetting lots of people who might otherwise buy a game. ;) [00:12] Researching philosophy Rumpo_Kid? ;) [00:12] Wheres the spy-able-to-plant-nukes mod? [00:12] 01WMDS excuse me [00:12] terrorism could be modelled by a "morale" effect... kind of like health. [00:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [00:12] I need to send tech my enemies a lesson. [00:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [00:12] 12Do we still build embassies? [00:12] Hrm. Possibly via special 'spy' units that could do thinks like attack population, health or happeness. [00:12] no [00:12] Er, -send, teach. [00:12] * Isak has joined #apolyton [00:12] remco, no [00:12] sm - my partner would play cive but she's a bit Stalinist and is scared she'll get hooked [00:12] hey Isak. another one! [00:12] 01well then there'd nead to be barbarian spy units too [00:12] include terrorism in a game, and it will get on the news with activists burning the box [00:12] REmconius: Argh! Eyesore! [00:12] Hiyas :) [00:12] * ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Isak [00:12] hey isak [00:12] Not really, look at all the shooters based around terrorism. [00:12] Martin! The three musketeers ride again. :) [00:13] 01always thought it was kind of useless (lol, sorry) [00:13] Hi Isak. [00:13] * jaask has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [00:13] heh [00:13] 01activists, heh, sounds like all news is good news for games [00:13] ooh, so this is where the other 2 musketeers were hiding :D [00:13] Is there any way to contact a civ without having to specifically send a unit near their territory? In Civ3 I have to send a unit, sometimes I can't see any of their units unless I go into their territory, which makes them mad. [00:13] * Darkslayer has joined #apolyton [00:13] I look good in one of those hats, too [00:13] now only Dale is missing of the consultants. he was here earlier though [00:13] Then again I can just be a newb and there was a way in Civ3 I just don't know about :( [00:13] hi everyone [00:13] Heya. [00:13] hello [00:13] Did you bring my pistol? I think I left it back at the castle. :) [00:13] 'lo [00:13] * Cesa has joined #apolyton [00:13] Locutus you "consultant" just admit you're a Firaxian already [00:14] 01is this game going to include any scenarios, persay.... cause when civ3 didn't I never bought it? [00:14] heh, nah I'm Porthos, I'm only armed with meat loaf... ;) [00:14] hehe [00:14] arsonide, you can't send units into a civs terrotiry at all now. just moving near it is enough [00:14] Q: I think this keeps getting lost in the flood, but i'm really curious. Is there a hardcoded civilization limit(ie, max in game or available to select) in Civilization 4, or is it open to modding? [00:14] who's Dartagnan then? [00:14] I see many CtP2 fans are giving the game thumbs up [00:14] Solver: but I'm not. if I am, I wanna see some more paychecks :doitnow!: [00:14] But outside of specifically sending a unit, there's no "easy" way to contact them? Like through an advisor or something? [00:14] i think people that are trained to help others... the "therapists" and "educators"... are the ones that end up hurting people the most... [00:14] is there really a working MAD mod? [00:14] that'd be you Rhye, you're the good looking one :) [00:14] Jon must be D'Artagnan. Now there's a scary thought! =) [00:14] lol [00:15] Where is he anyway? [00:15] Well folks, I gotta duck out [00:15] * [ACS]sabrewolf has left #apolyton [00:15] :( [00:15] oh right with my beautiful red mullet [00:15] Bye Fried. See you in MP [00:15] 01actually I lied I took it back, seemed like another CCTP to me, without scenarios support [00:15] I'll try and sneak back [00:15] cya Fried [00:15] Thanks for joining us, Fried. [00:15] look forward to it [00:15] See ya Friedrich [00:15] thanks for being here fried!! [00:15] Well, see ya later FP :) [00:15] arsonide, no, the whole point of the game is to explore (though you can exchange contacts in diplomacy) [00:15] Bye Fried. [00:15] www.myleague.com/civ4players - the ladder, come and beat me down. ;) [00:15] See you Fried [00:15] (as in civ3) [00:15] the article will be posted after the chat :) [00:15] you wish :p [00:15] * FriedrichPsitalon has left #apolyton [00:15] It will be awhile before the beatdown begins [00:15] i know :) [00:15] Exchange contacts in diplomacy? Loc? [00:15] i am soooooo bored with civ3... [00:16] 01Markos, do you always ignore me so? [00:16] Well, haven't you heard, there's a new one ;) [00:16] You're a Thorn in his side [00:16] Yeah I didn't get that, what's the point of exchanging communication in Civ, if you have to go to their territory to talk anyway, wouldn't exchanging maps be more beneficial? [00:16] or am I wrong about that? [00:16] 01oh I see someone got my s/n finally..... [00:16] not always, just usually [00:16] Well you are using black text, some people(like me) have black backgrounds. [00:16] * antiEntropist has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:16] dont say that dark I've got to put up with it for 2 months [00:16] Darkslayer: No worries I hear a new version is comming soon ;) [00:16] Darkslayer: I can sympathize! I stopped playing much Civ3 more than 30 months ago. I -thought- I'd be getting sick of Civ4 by now, but to my pleasant surprise, that isn't happening. [00:16] You couldn't trade contacts in the latest playtest build [00:16] So unless it got added just now.. [00:17] * BackPackToo has joined #Apolyton [00:17] No I mean in Civ3 [00:17] There is no contact trading. It's gone. [00:17] So does noone know about the civilization limit? [00:17] 18 [00:17] ah, well, there've been so many builds, so many changes, it's easy to mess that stuff up... [00:17] What's the point of exchanging contact? [00:17] 01yes there is....... 9^9999 + 2 [00:17] Its hardcoded at 18? [00:17] It was possible early on. [00:17] don't think so [00:17] * Backpack has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:17] @chaoslord: I am by no means an expert, cut the final review at CFC said there are no limitations [00:17] MP max = 18 [00:17] I don't know if there's a hardcoded max for civs in a single game, maybe Trip knows [00:17] cut=but [00:18] AS long as you put the right build on the gold version I'm happy :) [00:18] i don't remember [00:18] Ah, alrigt. [00:18] is there an earth map included? [00:18] sm yes [00:18] sm->sure it is [00:18] I don't think it's hardcoded, but anything past 18 is untested waters and not officially supported. [00:18] 01Any scenarios going to be included.....? [00:18] who made it :cute: [00:18] thorn->sure [00:18] Yeah, think Sirian is right about 18 civs [00:18] How can you be so sure Rhye? Have you seen it already? :D [00:18] sm, yes, that's been asked a dozen times. maybe I should bind that to a key as well :) [00:18] 01cool I'll buy this one then..... [00:18] FIRAXIS_Rhye, anything like your world mod map? [00:18] Is there going to be a DVD US version? [00:18] * Bill3000 has left #Apolyton [00:19] thorn, another FAQ, there are 4 scenarios [00:19] yes it's very similar [00:19] So did anyone get Civ4 yet :cute:? [00:19] :( [00:19] you solver? [00:19] WWII mediterranean, ancient mediterranean, earth 1000 AD, US independence war [00:19] solver check the topic [00:19] Now that Civ 4 is done.........are you guys gonna remake Alpha Centauri? =) [00:19] party! [00:19] 01cool that is realy nice [00:19] firaxians: does the game absolutely require hardware t&l? would it be possible to play it on a good laptop with integrated non-tl card? [00:19] lol@solver [00:19] Arsonide: the official word is that the DVD version is only for Europe. [00:19] I was waiting for Locutus to do his paste thing :) [00:19] Rhye made the world map :) [00:19] remake SMAC in Civ IV. ^_^ [00:19] Looking forward to it Rhye! Civ 3 one was great already, now it will truly come alive! [00:19] That, I'm looking forward to. [00:19] yeah, me was too slow to get it :idiot: ;) [00:20] I'll get you a direct story link... [00:20] actually, I've been considering the idea of a remake of the original Master of Orion in Civ IV. [00:20] http://apolyton.net/news/search.php?Category=All&LookFor=both&Find1=DVD+ONLY+FOR+EUROPE [00:20] you're not getting my paste, you know the answer :p [00:20] lol [00:20] Civ2: Fantastic Worlds had a MoO scenario didn't it? [00:20] Nooooo I want your paste [00:20] Pleeeeease [00:20] yes [00:20] Lots of people hungering for SMAC! Firaxis CEO Jeff Briggs said on the Podcast that it's just a twinkle in peoples' eyes at this point. That's the answer to go with, for now. :) [00:20] Oh [00:20] How many changes are there from last beta to gold? [00:20] strangely disturbing sentence btw locutus [00:20] * REmconius has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:20] The only thing would be how to make the planets that varied. [00:20] FIRAXIS_Rhye, were you also a part of the civ3 team? [00:20] no [00:21] And the ship design system. [00:21] I'd like to see a Masters of Magic based mod =) [00:21] You're really stuck with doing custom maps instead of randomly generated like MoO players would want. [00:21] who here was on the Cov3 team? [00:21] FIRAXIS_Rhye, your mod gave you the job? [00:21] Heh, I see a good future ahead for a MoM mod. [00:21] fimp, are you also a pcplayer regular? [00:21] gramphos depends on the build ;) latest build I saw (but didn't get myself) was 94 [00:21] Sirian, were you? [00:21] Especially with promotions and the modability. [00:21] Still, what is the point of exchanging contact in Civ3, if you have to go to their country every time you want to talk anyway, exchanging contact implies you can talk without going there every time (I am not talking about first contact, but normal communication). [00:21] * joe1839 has joined #apolyton [00:21] * Remconius has joined #apolyton [00:21] Randomly generated maps? Civ4 has those IN SPADES. [00:21] 01bye you'll, looks like an exciting game look foward to it, keep up the good work Frixas [00:21] * Thorn has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:21] my order status just went to shipped [00:21] Don't MENTION maps anywhere near Sirian [00:21] if anyone needs a map you know who to ask ;) [00:21] Isak, if I play pc games regularly? sometimes [00:21] I thought we weren't supposed to be talking about other pre-release builds. ;) [00:21] hehe [00:21] sirian can tell you something about random maps :) [00:22] Isak, i buy some of the great releases and play and then pause :) [00:22] fimp -> nah, I meant do you post at danish site pcplayer.dk? :) [00:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [00:22] so we could, in theory, come up with a script to generate a Master-of-Orion style map, with planets around stars and a bunch of dead space in between? [00:22] I wasn't part of Civ3 development, no. I did not even volunteer for any of the betas. [00:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [00:22] Sirian: Heh, we're talking about a possible MoO scenario for Civ4. [00:22] Isak, ah, ja! [00:22] ah, thanks :) [00:22] heh, thought so :D [00:22] isak, so when's Rise and Rule release date? [00:23] Rise and Rule was scheduled for yesterday, but in usual DYP Team spirit, it's been delayed 19 full moons.... ;) [00:23] heh [00:23] fimp->probably helped but not only that. [00:23] lol [00:23] MoO mod or scenario for Civ4? That would take a lot of work -- and MoO is the IP of other companies now, so Firaxis couldn't do it. It should be possible, though. Certainly the maps would be no problem. [00:23] FIRAXIS_Rhye, cool :) [00:24] there's Sirian talking maps again.... [00:24] I was wondering if the culture slider is used as often as the luxury slider in civ 3 was [00:24] wait, culture slider? [00:24] * Alien has joined #apolyton [00:24] wow, 42 new registrations today :D [00:24] heh [00:24] isak: are rumours that new rise and rule and rhye's of civ merge into Rhye's and Rule true? [00:24] there was a time that that was business as usual... :/ [00:24] One of these days I'm going to learn the inner workings of the mapscripts. [00:24] Rhye's and Rule! =) [00:24] btw...thanks for bringing back Wonder Movies......I like those and the Animated Advisors from Civ 2 [00:25] it will be again [00:25] Alva: and only 41 are DL's ;D [00:25] lol @ sirian [00:25] I hear ya, gramphos [00:25] not mine though :cute: [00:25] I liked the Civ3 advisors, they had character. [00:25] "Build more Tank!" [00:25] I bet I cant sleep again tonight because of all this civ4 talk! [00:25] hehe [00:25] I just need to get some less load from school [00:25] yeah, but the animated ones from Civ 2 were the best I thought [00:25] Firaxians: Lions attacking units... How stupid is that!? [00:25] yeah. [00:25] I mean, ELVIS. [00:25] I'm worn out. Won't be able to stay up and play tomorrow. [00:25] Yeah Rhye, it could very well - if we wait for you to finish your scenario, we'll just steal that and use it as our own. That would work.. :D [00:25] * vee4473 has joined #apolyton [00:26] Civ3 had advisors? (Makes a point to go back and look for them.) [00:26] heh [00:26] Taliseian, they were funny, but you grew tired of them pretty quickly imo [00:26] I didn't =) [00:26] Civ3 advisors weren't bad [00:26] should probably stop teaching on the side of my studies, but I need to make money in some way. [00:26] neither did I. ^_^ [00:26] some good jokes even [00:26] sid was an advisor [00:26] Yeah, I disabled the Civ2 advisors quickly. [00:26] i hated civ2s elvis advisor [00:26] Only went back to hear the military advisor tell me "We stand astride the world like a Colossus" [00:26] I liked elvis [00:26] Sid is in Civ4 as well :) [00:26] great. now i have to wait teturkhan to finish his endless work to steam his own [00:26] "I wasn't even supposed to be here" came on if you were playing passed midnight :D [00:26] the others were cool but i hate elvis [00:27] my gf didn't like Civ, but she liked it when I did my Elvis Advisor impersionation...... }:> [00:27] * Cesa has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:27] Are there other modes of play like in c3c? [00:27] * mudhut has joined #apolyton [00:27] * FIRAXIS_ACS_Locutus wonders if he should tell in what capacity or leave it a surprise [00:27] So, how did the Tutorial shape up from v87? [00:27] Not hating anyone here, Darkslayer. Just "dislike"... [00:27] (OK, that's part of the the teacher in me again ;)). [00:27] * Mithrander has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:27] * fimp wants to be an advisor in Civ5. Make a contest! [00:27] heh, maybe we should do a dinosaur modpack for Civ4 - dinosaur mods, not a mod about dinosaurs :) [00:27] whats the didtinction isak [00:27] "CivV?", fimp? Still a "CivIV" expansion pack or two to go first. [00:28] isak, i didn't finish telling you the recipe of pizza [00:28] * Remconius has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:28] * BackPackToo is now known as Backpack [00:28] mmmm, pizza [00:28] ACS_DanQ, but probably no new advisor graphics in those [00:28] mod yourself in [00:28] ^_^ [00:28] Isak: For those of us in the peanut gallery, can you explain the technical differences between "X mods, not a mod about Xs"? Danke. [00:28] i have a huge weakness for pizza... [00:28] What, you didn't eat enough pizza the last couple of months? [00:28] well, Rise and Rule, Rhye' maps, Teturkhans mods etc. are very old mods -> "Dinosaurs" [00:28] og, you mean warm pizza ;) [00:28] VladAntlerkovAFK, but you wont download it :) i want everybody to have me as an advisor [00:29] aaah [00:29] Aha! [00:29] The United Nations is in Civ4 anyone get this far into the game? [00:29] Yes, fimp, true. My point is we're thinking long-term here. I like the contest idea though... *makes note for future reference* [00:29] * VladAntlerkovAFK is now known as VladAntlerkovWFR [00:29] oh right Rhye, i'll want the rest of that soon :) [00:29] yes fred it's in [00:29] * naveed has joined #apolyton [00:29] so it's something like Planetary Council in SMAC? [00:29] i'd like it to be earlier though [00:29] The game was tested (and balanced!) all the way through. ALL... THE... WAY... ! [00:29] ACS_DanQ, :) [00:29] so who's up for a game of MP? [00:29] yes, exactly like that (if I remember that correctly) [00:29] just kidding ;) [00:29] Thats great -hoping to make world leader [00:30] That doesn't mean it's perfect, but it's at least polished. =) [00:30] ZOMG [00:30] ZOMG [00:30] that be Yarrr and woo [00:30] i think the AI will impress people [00:30] noooooooo [00:30] lol [00:30] Hiccups, fireforge112? [00:30] * Hidden has joined #apolyton [00:30] Q: On the levels of difficulty, is the AI "best" at all levels like it was in Civ3, or will it use better tactics in addition to whatever cheats it gets at difficulty levels beyond Noble(thats the normal one, right)? [00:30] Well duty is calling. Still was fun hanging out with so many Civ crazies for a while. Have fun people! [00:30] mark...give an example or two on how AI humiliated you:) [00:30] I hope so. I'd love to play a game withotu every AI civ comming after me like I killed it's mother. [00:30] See ya Custodian [00:30] Bye CustodianV131. Thanks for joining us. [00:30] @chaos: yes [00:30] nothing [00:31] just wanted to zomb [00:31] * ike0481 has joined #apolyton [00:31] zomg [00:31] I can't wait to see the reports from the guys who are going to start playing succession games on the highest levels. Man o man. [00:31] * CustodianV131 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:31] * luxnan has joined #apolyton [00:31] * Rave has quit IRC (Quit: ) [00:31] speaking of which, what's the highest level named? [00:31] The Ai will impress? That means I'm gonna be taken aprt even more [00:31] Alva: Yes to which part? [00:31] yeah, that should be interesting :) [00:31] heh [00:31] Deity [00:31] Deity [00:31] ah [00:31] You can beat it, can't you Sirian? [00:31] or Diety [00:31] Um... no. [00:31] for some ;) [00:31] Grab your ankles? [00:31] ah [00:31] larusso: i conquer a city and as usual i leave a unit inside and get the rest of my army and march on [00:31] Chaos: same AI [00:32] next turn enemy knights pass next to my army and retake the city :D [00:32] is Aeson the only one who's beaten Deity so far? [00:32] K. [00:32] Thanks. [00:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [00:32] Aeson is [00:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [00:32] It's beatable in some scenarios. It has been beaten, but so far only on smaller maps. [00:32] I think so, at least the only one who reported defeating it, IIRC [00:32] Heh - If Only we could put Aeson in a Box - In place of the AI [00:32] Is there still a big gap between Deity and the next-level-below-that-whatever-its-now-called? [00:32] Of course! Aeson's gonna go for 65K again. ;) [00:32] Aeson is scary... [00:32] And then he'll deny it. ;) [00:32] I've been defeted by it big time. ;) [00:32] hmmm, don't think anyone's going to get 65,000 in this game ;) [00:32] There is a pretty big gap, yes. [00:33] mudhut, there are more difficulties than civ3, so i guess the gap is smaller [00:33] He'll mod it. :p [00:33] * Alien has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:33] Trip: Why? ^_^ [00:33] score doesn't go that high :D [00:33] Soren wanted to have the top level be more or less ridiculously overpowering. :) [00:33] I ordered the game from GameStop with overnight shipping. Think I'll get it tonight? [00:33] no [00:33] Don't underestimate the community ;) [00:33] Hell no. [00:33] Don't understimate the new AI. :) [00:34] * spacebar has joined #apolyton [00:34] dopey question, but does it have the hammer/bell rating thing at the end? [00:34] ;) [00:34] is it possible to add your own music to the game? [00:34] I am sooooo jealous of all you guys with the game [00:34] all of you? [00:34] vee, it has something similar [00:34] Are the leaders beat up if you win? [00:34] EPW->sure! [00:34] I think only the devs/betas have it. [00:34] what music formats? [00:34] EPW, yes, the music is all in MP3 format [00:34] i replaced the main theme with Pink Floyd [00:34] just MP3? [00:34] ok good :) [00:35] must add the ctp/ctp2 music :) [00:35] chaoslord -> I thought today is the release day in US? [00:35] lol @ rhye - let me know which tracks. :) [00:35] will those of you with betas of the game go out and buy the full version now that it's out? [00:35] shine on you crazy diamond [00:35] Sirian, but even though it is ridiculously overpowering it has been beaten? [00:35] yes, just MP3. the music that is. not sure about unit sounds, I think they're wav [00:35] Its shipping today apparently. [00:35] Any reviews up other than IGN? [00:35] * Gertlex has joined #Apolyton [00:35] I ordered my copy from Amazon. [00:35] So its the release, but its still delayed. [00:35] naveed, no :/ [00:35] heh, of course - think i'll try with the opening from Obscured by Clouds myself. :) [00:35] just the instrumental part [00:35] ah. Here is Aus the official release date isn't till 3rd.... [00:35] a store near here told me they will have it in the afternoon shipment [00:35] Have to wait until november, no money :( [00:36] it fits very well the menu animation [00:36] Alva, stop drinking beer [00:36] lol [00:36] * javauser147 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [00:36] ....but there is a major delay on the Sydney Ports -> basically nothing can be unloaded because of a computer stuffup [00:36] Bought those long time ago [00:36] it's cheap beer too :D [00:36] so I am really worried that will be even longer before we get it here. AARGHGHG [00:36] naveed: not that we aware of, no (online anyway). [00:36] computer stuffup ??? The harbor personel are playing CIV you mean ;) [00:36] I wouldn't say I "beat" Deity... I won a few games on non-gold versions, and in generally favorable setups [00:36] can you see me? [00:36] Almost tastes like dutch beer :cute: [00:36] I'm waiting until at least november because I'm an idiot and selected the "10-day delivery" option. [00:36] hello> [00:36] yes, I can see you [00:37] we see you ike0481 [00:37] Q: Can you say what copy protection is being used for the US and European releases? Some can be quite finicky when it comes to certain cd/dvd-roms, could help those buying it. [00:37] thanks, strange PC Gamer didn't review it this month, next month will be already very late [00:37] isak -> LOL I bet.....now how do I get myself a job on the waterfront? [00:37] Dan do you have Yin's tracking code? :) [00:37] ok. i'm getting a weird message after I type that's why. [00:37] Aeson: I'd say you beat Deity. :) Agree on the somewhat favorable setups, though. There are certainly some arrangements that will be even tougher. [00:37] Does anyone know if it really uses Starforce? :D [00:37] * Gertlex has quit IRC (Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]) [00:38] Yeah... I couldn't play civ3 _at_all_ because my laptop's CD firmware didn't like it. )= [00:38] PTW and Conquests fixed it, but it was a bit annoying paying for civ3 and not being able to do anything with it. [00:38] * Gertlex has joined #apolyton [00:38] that's actually an important question......my friend's dvd-r has problems with Starforce [00:38] copy protection scheme is up to 2K Games to determine, not Firaxis. It's probably SecurROM though. [00:38] Mark: Amazon will notify me when yin's copy of "CivIV" ships. Have an estimated ship/arrival date already... Can't track it any more accurately than that. [00:38] * VladAntlerkovWFR is now known as VladAntlerkovAFK [00:39] yin is already aware of these dates. :) [00:39] YAY! for SecuROM [00:39] I also wanted to ask our Firaxians, if you were a great person, what sort would you be? [00:39] Ah, good. [00:39] Aaaah, well, at least SecuROM isn't TOO invasive. [00:39] I haven't had any problems with SecurROM I think. [00:39] Firaxians would all be Great Programmers ;) [00:39] If its what was used on Civ3 in the various flavours, it does install an annoying driver... but at least it only installs it upon loading of the game. [00:39] great spammer is a GP type? ;) [00:39] Heh, new great leader for the Civ4 expansion "Information Age"? [00:40] They're foreshadowing! [00:40] we're all great engineers and great artists you know ;) [00:40] * Krill has joined #Apolyton [00:40] who knows ;) [00:40] FIRAXIS_ACS_Locutus: whatever the protection, since some European players are probably not going to wait for the EU release, the later release date is going to lead to a faster cracking of the game... [00:40] it [00:40] I'm back... [00:40] Great Spammer... Heh, that would be me! [00:40] I just love how yin is anxious about geting civ4 :D [00:40] a great singer [00:40] I've actually had said driver crash my laptop, a time or two, though, with PTW. Better than Civ3 Vanilla that, like I said, just wouldn't run. )= [00:40] there are always going to be people cracking the game, later release or not [00:40] * Soren has joined #Apolyton [00:40] * geneshifter has joined #Apolyton [00:40] howdy cowpokes [00:40] is Yin the guy who promised to eat the box? [00:40] HELLO! [00:40] it's the same with Battlestar Galactica 2003, US/UK release was not identical, so people rip the stuff even faster because they don't want to wait [00:40] Hi Soren! [00:40] yes, maybe... [00:40] I preorderd but many stores told me the demand for this game is very high [00:40] Hi MAte [00:40] Heya [00:40] wow, looking packed [00:40] i want my civ [00:41] Hey, man of the hour!! ;) [00:41] who has the game? [00:41] Soren as in Firaxis-Soren? [00:41] Ike -> well, he only promised to eat it if ICS is dead [00:41] Everybody's waiting for you! [00:41] * ACS_DanQ sets mode: +v Soren [00:41] perfect timing to return, it seems. [00:41] Soren: ha-ha, like nobody has the game yet? [00:41] * nods * [00:41] G'evening, Soren. [00:41] quess so [00:41] There is no game, there is only Zuul. [00:41] Soren: How soon until Civ AI evolves and conquers the nations of man? [00:41] Hi Soren [00:41] Hey Soren [00:41] lol [00:41] My game is in the mail, overnight [00:41] say welcome to the overlord [00:41] hello Soren :) [00:41] so now that CIV IV is done.. who's going to pick up MOM 2? (ponders MOM 2 using the Civ IV engine.. ) :) [00:41] Grendel - did you use to write stories about CivIII? [00:41] All hail God... [00:41] Soren: you don't have to answer ChaosLord's question. Besides, I thought you told me it was a secret. ;) [00:41] MoM 2......**drool** [00:42] Welcome Soren [00:42] hi everyone, good to be here... wish more people had the game. Tomorrow, perhaps? [00:42] * IRCMonkey has joined #apolyton [00:42] hey Soren [00:42] yep [00:42] you're late ;) [00:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [00:42] Hidden, should I pick up your mom too, or what was that...? :cute: [00:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [00:42] Uhhh the real Soren :)? [00:42] First question for Soren: Have you programmed in an AI back door to allow you to beat Diety? [00:42] yes [00:42] ike0481: why do you ask? I had a MP game going on once where I wrote quite long battle reports (WWII pacific theater) [00:42] ZOMG it's teh SOREN :) [00:42] zomg [00:42] lol [00:42] I should have the game by tomorrow. Be glad nobody has it yet. There wouldn't be anyone in here chatting if there was. [00:42] Or CtP3 using Ci4 as a base? [00:42] * IRCMonkey is now known as flash9286 [00:42] ike: that's right [00:43] so, does everyone know about the scenarios that are included yet? [00:43] no [00:43] no [00:43] yep we spilled the beans earlier [00:43] Not yet [00:43] well, I've told them half a dozen times so if they don't know now... :) [00:43] Some of the betas don't know... [00:43] Not that I'm aware of. [00:43] these people are just late :p [00:43] well, some of the authors are here with us... [00:43] heh [00:43] hrm.. someone mentioned them before somewhere.. [00:43] * Alva doesn't [00:43] Yeah, earth1000ad, ancient mediteranen, US revolutionary war, ww2 mediteranen(bad sp). [00:43] i just got here from work [00:43] locutus is desert war in?;) [00:43] Nope. We've been slacking and chewing the fat instead of answering lots of questions. :) [00:43] though could you tell us what maps were included in the final version? [00:43] Thats what i've heard so far. [00:43] Wooo hoo Soren is going to commend all testers one by one :cute: [00:43] Hey, its early morning here in Aus - cut us some slack [00:43] Editing / AI Question -- Will you need to learn the language or will there be an editor to help those who are "programming challenged"? =) [00:43] Can anyone tell if the conquest victory is really possible now, without too much micromanagement? [00:44] Hey geneshifter. [00:44] hey danQ [00:44] Isak, Locutus, and Dale built a World War II North Africa scenario that's very nice... [00:44] any chance to become betatester tonight? ;-) [00:44] hehe [00:44] Soren always starts every chat with scenarios [00:44] cool [00:44] Our world maps were made by the world map master, Rhye [00:44] lol Grendel [00:44] :applause: [00:44] I remember 3 or 4 years ago he came in and asked about my Civil War scenario [00:44] WWII sounds interesting. I'm really looking forward to the American Revolution scenario. [00:44] me too [00:44] ACS_DanQ: I'd take the job... [00:44] nice [00:44] Earth1000AD for me. [00:44] * javauser has joined #apolyton [00:45] He also built a Greek World mod which is basically "what if Herodotus or Ptolemy had been right?" [00:45] ike: Trips ego is big enoough aleady ;) [00:45] I wouldn't blame you, Grendel. [00:45] Thats great I love there past mod workshould be a treat [00:45] Rhye's Earth 1000 AD is very nice [00:45] Yeah the Greek World! Fun stuff. [00:45] * Spocko has joined #apolyton [00:45] Trip: are you saying that Soren's predictable? Shame on you. ;) [00:45] Earth 1000 AD is also my fave [00:45] Soren, you guys did a first class job on this game from what I've seen in the hands-on previews. Thanks for that. [00:45] Trip contributed an American Revolution mod which is a lot of fun (and you've probably seen some screenshots of) [00:45] I like Greek World best [00:45] i agree geneshifter [00:46] @ Soren : does the AI chear on higher levels? :) [00:46] cheat [00:46] Soren, will SMAC modifications and Colonization modifications work? Do you see any obstacles? [00:46] though I haven't really given Trip's scenario a fair chance yet [00:46] at any rate, you should be able to see that the modding power of Civ is unmatched [00:46] i think Desert War will be the best [00:46] 3 people worked on it.... [00:46] I get beat up in Greek world every time .. can't stand that.. :D [00:46] Desert War :b: [00:46] Lol, Isak, you're a worse player than Markos ;) [00:46] I should also add that Sirian wrote all of the python maps scripts, which are a huge step forward for random map generation [00:46] the script part is amazing [00:46] not possible... [00:47] Editing / AI Question -- Will you need to learn the language or will there be an editor to help those who are "programming challenged"? =) [00:47] the maps are great [00:47] Double applause to Sirian [00:47] Great work on map scripts [00:47] There is about 10x more variety available via them than in Civ3... [00:47] @ANYONE - How good is the provided manual? (Compared to the Brady Games Strat Guide)? [00:47] lol Loc - i'm glad if my inabilities can give Markos a boost ;) [00:47] hear hear!! [00:47] the really give CIV an edge over all previous incarations, IMV [00:47] yep, Sirian did a great job [00:47] Tal, you'll have to learn it yourself, but I'm working on a Python guide at least [00:47] Soren, 10x? It's at least 50x [00:47] Thanks Locutus [00:47] *bows* Yay for letting me write so many maps! *nods to Soren* [00:47] well, technically it's infinite... [00:47] lol [00:47] * Feeroper has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [00:47] lol [00:48] An excuse to learn Python hehe [00:48] That's technically, but if Civ3 had 3 scripts, and Civ4 has a ton + Custom Map Options, we certainly get to around 50 ;) [00:48] has anyone here gotten there preorder edition? [00:48] Soren had to order me to stop working on the maps at one point. I was, er... on a roll. =) [00:48] lol [00:48] I will get it tomorrow hopefully. Can't wait!! I say the rest of the week should be a national holiday! [00:48] Yep, first expansion will be Civ4:Maps Galore. Includes 3267 maps by Sirian [00:48] * Rommel2D has quit IRC (Quit: ) [00:48] Soren, what regular maps made it into the final version? Earth, Ice Age Earth, what else? [00:48] Sirian - You Stopped? WHy Stop, Just save them up for uploading to Apolyton, or for the first Expansion...... [00:48] btw, I was expecting to see a SMAC mod eventually... lokks like you guys can't wait to get started. [00:49] heh [00:49] lo [00:49] "We Love the Firaxians Day" =) [00:49] lol@solver [00:49] haha [00:49] There's nothing that should hold it back... it's a significant amount of work though... [00:49] Or maybe - Preorder Expansion - Get the Sirian Bonus Map DVD!!! [00:49] Well, I had other duties that could not be neglected. [00:49] Although Soren's promotion system is a step up from the SMAC workshop [00:49] I'm waiting on a Test of Time-ish mod too Soren. [00:49] IT certainly is [00:49] Well, one question I have... I know there're some pretty tight kernels for interpreting python, but really, how much CPU load does that cause? Its still parsing a pretty complex text structure, though having your whitespace dictated to you as how it tells blocks apart helps a bit, in my experience (not that I CARE for that, but still ;) [00:50] that's an opinion, Solver [00:50] ...is there a difference between the DVD and the 2CDs version? [00:50] The rest of the week is a National Holiday - At least in my Country.... Took Leave for the rest of the week. [00:50] The SMAC workshop was... nice, but the AI never could use it. I liked it. [00:50] the testers have also been talking about a SMAC mod - pretty sure something will come of it eventually :) [00:50] i liked ToT the best [00:50] * SirOsis hands out beer to all the contributors to Civ4! CHEERS! [00:50] Promotions! That is the deal maker in the new combat engine. The icing on the cake. [00:50] yeah, the C4-AC people might want to take a long hard look at the promotion system. It may be easier to use it than write a unit workshop. [00:50] Promotions don't make sense for upgrading futuristic technology [00:50] unit workshop would be easy to 'hack' in [00:50] * Alva gets another beer [00:50] Soren, thanks for confirmation on the possiblity of the SMAC mod. Now I am lookng forward to it even more! [00:50] This will be the last free evening I have for about four months or so :) I can't wait to play! [00:50] just add a screen whenever a unit is built or whatever [00:50] Anyone remembers if strength of unit can be changed with Python at runtime? [00:50] and then replace the unit just built with what is selected [00:50] just need more XML unit entries [00:51] Trip: yeah, that shouldn't be hard [00:51] Solver, no [00:51] yeah the promotion system looks promising for C4:AC [00:51] Spocko: whatever you do, don't neglect your daily Apolyton visit. Or visits. You would never forgive yourself. ;)) [00:51] Trip: 6 weapons to choose from and 6 armors to choose from is already 64 entries... [00:51] well, if you want a real unit workshop, you'll probably have to wait for the SDK... [00:51] lol :) [00:51] So which of the Firaxians has put the most blood sweat, tears, and divorce proceedings into the development of Civ4? [00:51] Man, work is going to be sooo irritating to wade through tormoorow. :p [00:51] is c4:AC going to be an expansion pack. This is the first I've heard of it. [00:51] Well, I'd say replacing some stuff with promotions, some stuff with a unit builder.. [00:51] Solver: that's why it's a hack ;) [00:51] I'm pretty sure C4:AC would need the SDK to make anyway.....too many changes I see [00:51] Solver, how is that? 6x6 is 36? [00:51] But, that's my opinion. [00:52] ike, the c4AC project is not an official expansion [00:52] pelase don't make Civ V for 6 years at least, Civ IV is already early ;) [00:52] That's 36 to you :p [00:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [00:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [00:52] I may be over-optimistic but I've seen what people have done with scripting languages alone in other games (like Warcraft3) I'm not convinced we'll need the SDK [00:52] Solver, 8x8 is 64 ;) [00:52] alva [00:52] naveed: hate to break it to you but Civ 5 comes out in 2 weeks [00:52] your at your limit [00:52] LOL Trip [00:52] Meh, multiplication tables are overrated [00:52] FIRAXIS_Trip: lol [00:52] If you could make it so you could only build base chassis and then upgrade your unit depending apon techs reached that'd work. Only question is how to upgrade to units you can't normally build and the AI using it. [00:52] Civ6 in 4 weeks. [00:52] lol [00:52] wow [00:53] that's fast work [00:53] Yeah, ChaosLord - the AI is the tricky part [00:53] It'll be civ18 by xmas [00:53] it is so impressive, I just cancelled my preorder :( [00:53] So Soren, how does it feel now that Civ4 has been released? :) [00:53] Can anyone speak to the inBox Manual? [00:53] nooooo [00:53] Unit Workshop can also be done with promotions [00:53] Then again, Soren did raise the Civ-AI to a new level now [00:53] ChaosLord, that would work, but the general consensus at the moment is that we want to change as little of how AC was with the mod [00:53] you bring up a screen to select unit 'components' [00:53] which are actually promotions [00:53] no XML necessary [00:53] * Gertlex has quit IRC (Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]) [00:53] well, aside from the promotions themselves ;) [00:53] either way, it's all very easy to do [00:53] Oh, well I don't just want an AC clone myself. [00:53] Soren, can you tell me how the preorder edition box looks? [00:53] that's my favorite solution Trip - I love promotions :) [00:54] tie in the Promotions to Tech Advances instead of Battle Exp ? [00:54] * Lord has joined #apolyton [00:54] Trip: then I want the mod done by next Friday :p [00:54] Eidalac: you could always take "CivIV" to work with you. But you'll have to make that decision for yourself. ;) [00:54] * ACS_MarkG changes topic to 'Civ4 We-Dont-Have-The-Game-So-All-We-Can-Do-Is-Bug-Soren-To-Tell-Us-Stuff Party NOW! Celebration Time!!' [00:54] * FIRAXIS_Trip laughs [00:54] lol [00:54] I could do it if I weren't working on other stuff ;) [00:54] :D [00:54] * MeaCulpa has joined #apolyton [00:54] Can promotions be made to cost money/time? [00:54] Or are they instant once you have the XP? [00:54] Get Soren to fire you, you'll have more time :p [00:54] lol at MarkG [00:54] * Lord has quit IRC (Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]) [00:54] oh, that's true... Trip's right. Really, it's best not to think of things as their name. Religions, I am sure, can be used for all sorts of things... [00:54] CivIV at work..... how wonderful life would be if it could only be true. [00:54] LOL [00:54] * LordNword has joined #apolyton [00:54] My basic plan for the first version of units of C4:AC is to create a selection of offensive units (like Impact Rover) a selection of defensive units (like Plasma Defender) and some mixed units. then hack the promotion system into something workable. but i'll need to play civ4 first to solidify my plan first. Units an have multiple tech-prereq right? [00:55] blake: yes [00:55] Techincaly, I could get away with that, but I dont' think my copy will come in before work starts. :p [00:55] so, seriously, doesn't anyone have the game? (I suppose they wouldn't be here if they did) [00:55] Heck - Go the Valve Software route - Now that Modding is powerful enough - Start making and releasing commercial Game mods as games on thier own - Ala COunterstrike etc [00:55] Cavalry requires Horseback Riding and Military Tradition [00:55] you need both to build them [00:55] not for 2 more days [00:55] no, don't have it yet [00:55] Atma: they are instant, but with python you could change things around [00:55] Soren: according to forums, no one managed to get a copy [00:55] i like blake's plan :) [00:55] Soren: just us at the moment ;) [00:55] not for a weel [00:55] week [00:55] If I had the game i'd be on my way to collapsing from sheet one-more-turn exhaustion in about 30 hours, not talking here. :P [00:55] Then Trip can get paid for the Mod [00:55] Isak: So you could script in a cost and such? [00:55] tough... [00:55] :p [00:55] Firaxis should think about digital distribution [00:55] soren, no, noone has the game yet, apart from us [00:55] sheet=sheer [00:55] we would all be playing by now [00:55] locutus are you still playing ?? :) [00:55] the testers have v87 and v90. Can we ask you questions based on that? [00:55] It'd be a bit more micromanagement than setting it all at unit build time, but it'd work, it seems. Hrm. =D [00:55] that's enough then [00:55] I think Soren just burned you all. ;))) [00:55] * fingerbiter has joined #apolyton [00:55] we can play ourselves [00:56] who cares of the rest of the world [00:56] and you aren't? [00:56] sounds like the Modding forums are gonna be really busy soon....... =) [00:56] the game is still running but this chat is so fast I have no time to play :/ [00:56] We betas need the Gold build for our weekly dose now, or else we're going to start having convulsions [00:56] We can only hope, Taliseian. [00:56] :) [00:56] serves you right in some ways :-p [00:56] Atma: yeah [00:56] =) [00:56] Chatting is more fun!! [00:56] I was hoping to have my copy by today, but it hasn't shipped yet and I'm not even sure I'll have it tomorrow! [00:56] lol [00:56] Solver, you don't know how right you are [00:56] * Alva tries to kid himself ;) [00:56] :) [00:56] If I had a copy, I intended to post some new screens, but... Oh well. [00:56] Lets round up a posse and go raid Firaxis HQ for copies. [00:57] Soren: any idea if the game also ships in jewel-case versions? [00:57] * ChaosLord grabs a pitchfork and a torch. [00:57] alva... are you CRAZY. chat over CIV... NO WAY!! [00:57] I'll have my copy by this time tomorrow or I'll be driving 100 miles to a city that does have it! [00:57] we don't have copies either! [00:57] * Atma is in VA, not that far from MD [00:57] ChoasLord: put... that... down! [00:57] They're hoarding all the copies! [00:57] (Teacher in me... bleck ;)) [00:57] I have yet to see the real thing... It's not down at our EB [00:57] * Senethro has joined #apolyton [00:57] how can you not have copies? [00:57] heh, prolly better to raid Take2 then :) [00:57] @Chaos: depends on the crowd ;) [00:57] Heh, they make it, but not make it make it mudhut. [00:57] I'm sorry - Did someone say "BArbarian Invasion of Firaxis Headquarters"? [00:57] lol [00:57] lion invasion i prefer [00:57] hehe [00:57] lol [00:57] lol [00:57] Just how it goes... I've never seen game production go this fast. We finished 6 days ago! [00:57] as Soren said, if you come here you won't find many copies of Civ 4 ;) [00:57] A Barbarian party just landed near Friaxis Headquarters [00:58] * Spocko has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [00:58] can't invade cultural borders, lions that is ;) [00:58] Nobody use the word "invasion" around Apolyton, please. [00:58] ;D [00:58] Wow these days, lead designer has to go to the store to buy his game [00:58] Yo, markos, you about? [00:58] * Taliseian sets the channel barbarian mode to "raging hordes"........ [00:58] DanQ - Incursion perhaps? [00:58] solver lol [00:58] LOL@Dan [00:58] "Give us all your gold or else we'll pillage your offices!" Y/N? [00:58] lol @ solver [00:58] Solver: if he wants it the first week. [00:58] lol chaos [00:58] Bakcpack: I'll allow it. :) [00:58] lets just sign an open borders agreement and we can go there peacefully [00:58] * Slax has joined #apolyton [00:59] Nope, each time Soren wants to run Civ4, he should have to recompile the thing from scratch [00:59] We can send in guys disguised as missionaries. [00:59] * flash9286 has quit IRC (Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.68a [Firefox 1.0.7 StumbleUpon/1.9995/20050915]) [00:59] MudHut - I bet we could bribe our way in with BEER! [00:59] hey senethro [00:59] scratch? thankfully not [00:59] Solver: the sad part is, I can't wait to get my hands on a copy, so I -did- pay for my copy just like everybody else. MUST... PLAY... [00:59] or just send in the spies to get what we want without them knowing we're ever there. [00:59] Release parties are fun !! :D Should do it more often ;) [00:59] Sirian, i went out and preordered too :D [00:59] First thing I am going to Mod is the Broadway wonder - make it the Firaxis wonder so I have copies of Civ to sell to the world [00:59] hi, I saw you posting on the AC-creation forum, was there anything else said? :) [00:59] Yes, Next one, Colonization II [00:59] MMmm Beer - I think one of my first mods is going to be a Brewery - Requires Wheat... etc etc - Increases Health +2 [00:59] Alva: yeah right, a new civ release every two months would be fun ;-) [00:59] I'm not very productive here though, Alva. [00:59] The sad part is, there are still no game boxes in this entire frigging country, jewel-cases only. So I'm going on an expedition tomorrow hoping someone started selling boxes [00:59] Hmmmmmmm... yeah release parties! :cute: :) [01:00] Soren any word on Pitboss? how soon? [01:00] ooooooo......Colonization 2........damn, too many mods that I want to play now =) [01:00] with that speed we get to Civ8 in no-time... [01:00] was working on it today (that's why I was late) [01:00] No Game boxes????? [01:00] * Lemmy has quit IRC (Quit: !) [01:00] Isak: Isn't it sad? I keep checking Amazon. "Has it shipped yet? Oh COME ON! Who do I have to be around here to get a copy of this game?" LOL [01:00] Sounds good to me [01:00] np: Ensemble Studios - Age of Empires Collector's Edition (soundtrack CD) [01:00] * Spocko has joined #apolyton [01:00] Nope, games aren't sold over here [01:00] * vee4473 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:00] You were working on what now, Soren? :) [01:00] I predict the most popular mod will be the hammers-into-shields mod. [01:00] ;) [01:00] * Zopperoni has joined #apolyton [01:00] I keep checking Gamespot for their review [01:00] thought it'd be up yesterday! [01:00] Hey Zopeer!!!! [01:00] Soren, what's the dev's team position on zero-bugs releases? doable or fiction in the gaming industry? [01:00] ras - that soundtrack is good stuff. the game is great too [01:00] Gamespot says later in the week, possibly by Friday? [01:01] PitBoss seems to be working, but we're going to take our time with testing it. It's a small but very different version of the game... [01:01] geneshifter: Say that to Solver and he'll pat you. ;) [01:01] The lowlands are taking over :evil: [01:01] haha [01:01] Games have been cursed with release bugs ever since John Romero release Daikatana. [01:01] ChaosLord: Hammers in to Shields mod sounds cool, but I won't need it. Them are shields! (THey, uh, have handles on them now, though, and a new shape!) [01:01] Hmm, so its really just a tiny fat shield with a handle. [01:01] Sledgehammers!!! [01:01] Righto [01:01] games are going to have bugs no matter what. that's just part of it. [01:01] Of course GameSpot can't find the copy too, Firaxis should have sent them one in advance for tehe review [01:01] spt, Sledgehammers per turn!! [01:01] From the ACS News Department's perspective, I hope GS' review is Friday (end of work week). [01:01] Oh wait... nobody cares about us. ;) [01:02] i think civ4 will face a minimal ammount of bugs.... [01:02] :p [01:02] Sid can't explain why he used shields... the best is when I hear people with future TBS's (MOO, GalCiv) calling them shields! [01:02] * Backpack hands DanQ a frosty Sam Adams [01:02] heh [01:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [01:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [01:02] night all [01:02] *burp* [01:02] * javauser510 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:02] :( [01:02] 'cuse me. ;) [01:02] Shield must have been the graphic Sid could draw most easily :) [01:02] Night Krill. [01:02] Soren: But still why shields were replaced at all, why? why? [01:02] night Krill :) [01:02] have a god evening [01:02] Sid went to Hammers in Colonization, but it was too late! QWERTY already owned the market! [01:02] good, [01:02] yeah, how about prying Sid away from his piano and getting him in this chat too [01:02] well, Soren is here ;) [01:02] I'm feeling pretty good about the game bug-wise. Certainly, nothing major has come up since we've shipped. [01:02] damnit I can't spell... [01:02] :b: Alva [01:02] * Krill has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:03] Good to hear [01:03] ;) [01:03] Nice! [01:03] * SeeSchloss has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [01:03] no bugs.. wow... it has never happend to me before [01:03] For everyone's future reference, no swearing in... wait, this isn't my classroom! ;D [01:03] Oh, we'll find bugs, I'm sure. [01:03] Okay - Story Time - What sthe worst bug that went out on a development release - That is of course now fixed...? [01:03] and don't forget it either :p [01:03] Soren : has anyone beat the highest difficulty? [01:03] * danmd has joined #apolyton [01:03] Slax: Aeson has [01:03] Of course! [01:04] i cant believe its not coming out til tomorrow! [01:04] has he in a regular gfame though? [01:04] * gstommylee has joined #apolyton [01:04] * electr0 always find strange bugs.. its his curse [01:04] naveed: if you are a new user, what are you more likely to understand, hammers or shields? It may seem like a small thing, but we rebuilt the whole game from scratch. Every single part of the game was reassessed to see if there was a way to improve or clarify it. It was an interesting experience... [01:04] has anyone been whupped by the lowest level [01:04] Yes, Markos :cute: [01:04] Yeah, Markos probably ;) [01:04] Yeah, the hammer thing does make sense for new users. [01:04] hello [01:04] Aeson always beats everything... that's just a given. [01:04] ...damn the n00bs, we want them to stay shields! [01:04] i like hammers better [01:04] guys NEWS [01:04] hammer make more sense to me [01:04] shields are often used to build stuff :) [01:04] gamestop is shiping their orders today [01:04] Soren: I was a new user when I palyed Civ I, and shield didn't bother me then :D [01:04] backpack, the worst bug we've had so far was described as following: "really dumb bug causing horrendous errors" ;) [01:04] at any rate, the difficulty levels are moddable, so you can set them to whatever you want. [01:04] civ IV orders [01:04] when I think of "shields" I think of defense, not building something (I guess its the DnD player in me) [01:04] whoo hoo gamestop [01:05] so is eb [01:05] Soren, you can't beat your own AI at the highest difficulties, right? [01:05] yeah i remember that! horrendous [01:05] good benchmark though, if only Aeson can beat it---> great AI ;) [01:05] i started civ4 on the level bellow noble :p [01:05] Have some units been kept secret? What are they?!! [01:05] To anyone on Firaxis: I'm one of the guys workign on the SMAC-mod for Civ4. We were hoping to use some materials such as sound files from the original SMAC. Would you advise emailing someone legal at Firaxis for whether this is permissable? [01:05] solver: I haven't tried... [01:05] Soren, I understand that once again I can see the water animated. I couldn't care less for eye candy, but... thanks for that little thing. [01:05] * Rave has joined #apolyton [01:05] Whooever did not order their copy of "CivIV" through Apolyton can get out. ;))) [01:05] I'm going to play my first game on Noble and hopefully enjoy the AI thrashing me. [01:05] Bah humbug - I wanted a tale of an overzealous easter egg, causing all workers to turn into Elvisi with Sid heads [01:05] * LordNword seconds Senethro's question [01:05] good news that the hammers are fat enough to look like shields [01:05] hi Soren - hey, pop on over to CFC. :) [01:05] it's not just animated water Vet, it's waves! [01:06] * Backpack waves [01:06] I can wave too [01:06] Slax: wouldn't be a secret then, would it? ;-) [01:06] * is_jahanzeb has joined #apolyton [01:06] senethro: sorry, I'm just a developer. I assume it's legal if everyone own's a copy of the game (but that's not the same thing as fereely distributing those files...) [01:06] not the same wave :) [01:06] It's only 200 of the most hardcode civvers in both places combined! [01:06] senethro: in other words, I don't know. :) [01:06] @CT: get them over hrere :p [01:06] I hear Best Buy has the game in stock [01:06] where [01:06] but they're not releasing it ;) [01:06] Soren: he meant the email of some legal guy at Firaxis [01:06] * gstommylee waits till UPS tracking says delivery date [01:06] I tried. They like it there better. ;) [01:06] Soren vs Legal Issues 0-1 [01:07] hey [01:07] Their loss ;) [01:07] is MarkG a secret unit? [01:07] Best Buy in Huntsville Al. Did NOT have it in stock - stop spreading pernicious teasing lies! [01:07] First game, I might enter my name as Soren, and see if the AI goes easy on me :) [01:07] i'm just curios to find out what kind of easter eggs are included in the game. From what I've seen Firaxis has a great sense of humor. [01:07] * VladAntlerkovAFK is now known as VladAntlerkovWFR [01:07] has the "party" started yet... [01:07] Soren: Thanks, we'll play it safe and email the right people then :) [01:07] I should get some beer [01:07] Slax, nah not yet [01:07] mudhut, just don't enter your name as Trip then... [01:07] sadiaya - well I'm dancin' [01:07] what happens then? [01:07] Apolyton is a city i think. we are arent we? [01:07] is it available at best buy ? [01:07] i bought it on ebay for $65... [01:07] SMAC mod for Civ4 will be fun, I haven't nerve stapled anyone in awhile. [01:07] * ACS_MarkG goes to check the xml files [01:07] i bought it on ebay for $65... [01:07] that would be cool markg [01:07] Actually, the chat 'officially' ended ~7-8 minutes ago. Oh well. ;) [01:08] * Taliseian has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [01:08] Or perhaps enter name as Aeson, and hope that the AI is scared into submission... [01:08] but i have not looked at best buy [01:08] I hope theres going to be a log posted :) [01:08] @Dan: Shhhhh !!! ;) [01:08] well, I better leave then! [01:08] !! [01:08] !!! [01:08] * Hidden has quit IRC (Quit: off to bank rest.. will need it for whenever CIV IV is released.) [01:08] :D [01:08] see what you did Dan [01:08] See, dammit Dan ;) [01:08] * Grandpa has joined #Apolyton [01:08] * Grandpa has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:08] hehe [01:08] It's all Dan's fault! [01:08] No at all, Soren! [01:08] Not at all. [01:08] Mark, Ban him!! [01:08] lol [01:08] +b [01:09] what I wondered ever since I've read about religion as a new feature: can a civ found two religions? [01:09] Yeah, Soren, come over to #civfanatics then! :D [01:09] This is what someone gets for asking me if the party had started. Yeesh. [01:09] Grendel: yes [01:09] ;) [01:09] * Grandpa has joined #Apolyton [01:09] Has anyone here seen the In Box Manual? How good is it? [01:09] civs can found as many religions as they can get to... [01:09] cya Soren [01:09] CT Stop trying!! :p ;) [01:09] i live right down the road from Firaxis [01:09] Hah, found all 7 faiths. [01:09] grendel, yes, you can found all 7 if you're *really* good :) [01:09] so a city can be a holy city for multiple religions? [01:09] not sure if you want to though [01:09] yes, we're the last greek city, as in civ3 :) [01:09] and still have to wait [01:09] Soren, would you briefly comment on how your role changed in development of Civ3 vs. Civ4? [01:09] yes, "Jerusalem" is possible... [01:09] cool [01:09] and we can add religions, of course? [01:09] excellent [01:10] Royalty..all..I am blessed in Trolldom [01:10] Any turn replay in MP? [01:10] Good Question - Is there a CAP of 7 religions? [01:10] the fact that Apolyton has backed this and has helped in the development makes this a must have [01:10] Will the religion be moddable? I would love to modify the effects of the religions, like giving special units to religion? [01:10] vlad, it's posssible but not likely. the holy city will be a different one for every religion if possible [01:10] Special units for religions is easy [01:10] (If I was really that concerned with official chat end times, I would have said something about 10 minutes ago.) [01:10] * Metaliturtle has joined #apolyton [01:10] you can add more religions [01:10] SirOsis: I provided design assistance to Jeff Briggs in Civ3 and wrote most of the game code and all of the AI. With Civ4, I was more of project lead/lead designer and I wrote all of the game and AI code (not counting map scripts) [01:10] so there is a WW2 Mod right? at least from screens [01:10] so if I OCC, then I could end up with a Jerusalem-style situation? [01:10] whats up dan Q [01:10] danmd, yeah [01:11] thanks :) [01:11] How big was the Dev team in total (excluding betas)? [01:11] there are only 7 real religions in the game, so that is the max [01:11] Soren: you wrote all the game code? What did Moose write then? [01:11] some scenarios even have modded religions. E.g. Greek and Egyptian Mythology are in the Greek World scenario [01:11] People yelling at me... you sound like some of my students. ;) [01:11] been waiting since civ 2 for a good one [01:11] Hey fireforge12. [01:11] is there any pic out there of the manual and the real preorder boX??? [01:11] we had about 8 programmers and 15 artists for the last year of the project. [01:11] Soren - Is that a confirmation that there is a hard cap of 7 religions in a single game? [01:12] Oh, surely not if we can mod at the C++ level! [01:12] you can add more religions via modding [01:12] The interface is designed for 7 religions [01:12] i like the idea of a jerusalem type situation. wonder if it's possible where multiple religions can have the same holy city?? [01:12] that's what he said :) [01:12] that's just the standard game [01:12] dnmd, yes, there's a WWII Mediterranean scenario [01:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [01:12] Manual should be good... the game was more finished this time around, so there are only a couple things that changed and didn't make it in. (have to check the readme) [01:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [01:12] thanks [01:12] If you add more, you'd need to mod the interface [01:12] Soren -> so when you say you wrote all of the game code, what were the other seven programmers doing? :) [01:12] I just wanted to double check since both answers appeared from people inthe know [01:12] vlad, yes, if you found more religions than you have cities you'll get a Jerusalem [01:12] did someone say a SMAC scenario as well? [01:12] good [01:12] cool [01:12] SMAC scenario is planned by fans, not by Firaxis. [01:12] cool [01:12] "if" of course [01:12] big if [01:12] hey man i lost my job on THursday... [01:12] mudhut: interface, mod support, editor, graphics, multiplayer, sound [01:13] is Firaxis hiring? [01:13] they still don't beleive that it wasn't me... [01:13] will it be possiblt to bribe the leaders like Civ III? [01:13] Sorry to hear that, danmd. ;( [01:13] :( [01:13] Well all - The Wife is calling Dinner - Since it's the only time she will see me for a week, I have to go - Later [01:13] more time to play civiv danmd [01:13] danmd: plenty of time to play! [01:13] * Spocko has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [01:13] Soren, How much did using the same engine for Pirates! affect the development of Civ4? [01:13] Seeya Backpack. [01:13] Check out the AC-Creation forum if you're interested in the SMACmod, its in very early stages at the moment but we have plenty of enthusiasm ;) [01:13] the interface is fairly easy to change, wrt religions [01:13] backpack: lol [01:13] that is exactly how i am looking at it [01:13] cya backpack [01:13] lol [01:13] I want to help creating a Colonization mod. But I think that the Colonization resource system will have to wait for the SDK. [01:13] we're not hiring right now... usually, you hire in the middle of a project, not at the end [01:13] You could always eat your dinner at the computer. Don't tell your wife I said that! ;D [01:13] lol [01:13] lmao [01:14] * Backpack is gonna sit in a corner and log so he can enjoy the chat he misses later [01:14] i worked customer service for Comcast [01:14] Not even for PTW :cute: ;) [01:14] * Tyranthraxus has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:14] so getting let go is a mixed blessing [01:14] that is coming from a guy that's bee married for a while I guarantee it [01:14] I have a question about city interface screen, does it give a total # cities..civIII didnt..had to manual count [01:14] * sgrig has joined #apolyton [01:14] Guys, the game comes out tomorrow :) Can't you just wait? [01:14] no [01:15] no [01:15] no [01:15] no [01:15] no [01:15] :) [01:15] no [01:15] lol [01:15] Soren: May I post the actual combat system / formula tomorrow? [01:15] /!\ fanboys alert! /!\ [01:15] i can... [01:15] i really thought i would have it today lol [01:15] no! ;.; [01:15] that looks unanimous [01:15] Hey, I resent that, I'm a fangirl! q= [01:15] amazon said I might get it by Thanksgiving [01:15] lol [01:15] solver: yeah, I've got no problem with that [01:15] i cannot wait....the civ series in the best of all pc games!! [01:15] Will I want external tools (noncheating) eventually, or are is so much covered they are not needed? [01:15] i havent bought a game on release day for a long time [01:15] /!\ OMG GURL ON TEH INTARWEB /!\ [01:15] lol [01:15] So Soren, what does CIV IV stand for. Does that mean Civilization 4 or Civilization intravenous feed??? [01:15] * Atma chuckles. [01:15] two of us even :X [01:15] I've never played any of the civ games... honestly... I have lived days in SMAC though :) [01:16] and I look forward to cIV [01:16] Intravenous feed... Sorry, got to wait for the expansion to get that feature. [01:16] Solver: not a rock-paper-scissors system? [01:16] civ4 has an alarm feature now :) [01:16] well, i liked civ2 the best up to this point [01:16] btw, everyone knows the combat system uses a "firepower" system somewhat like Civ2? (units hit for different amounts of damage) [01:16] Heh, my girlfriend tends to come online too, though she's more into blowing things up games than building stuff games. [01:16] Alarm feature... what good is that? ;) [01:16] MarkG can you expand on the alarm feature? [01:16] Grendel: I mean the chance of a unit winning a round, the damage done in round [01:16] slax, you will want to use an XML and/or code editor. basically any text editor will do, but a proper one works better (as you know) [01:16] ACS_MarkG: an alam system like "boss mode"? ;-) [01:16] My alarm is birds starting to make too much noise ;) [01:16] Civ4 Combat: Sometimes it's better to be good than lucky! [01:16] which means the scale is more logarithmic than linear [01:16] * Metaliturtle has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:16] Soren: can you explain, please? [01:16] havent really used, it alarms you on how much time you're playing [01:16] uh, math... [01:17] * javauser110 has joined #apolyton [01:17] I think I'll need an intravenous feed by the end of this week after playing CIV so much. [01:17] Pfft. I use that bright light called 'the sun' for an aalrm :X [01:17] lol [01:17] ooh, nonlinear math [01:17] Actually Soren wanted to make the alarm uninstall Civ4 if you don't stop playing, but then we threatened to force him to play MoO3 all day long and he removed the feature [01:17] lemme at it [01:17] lol @ maki [01:17] Soren, how many helicopters can you kill with a knight? ;) [01:17] If a unit with, oh say, 20 hits a unit with, oh say, 10, it will do twice as much damage as vice-versa. [01:17] (that's the idea, math is not quite the same) [01:17] Markos! [01:17] ;) [01:17] MarkG: Depends how high you throw them... [01:17] * Atma rather liked MoO3, up until those magic disappearing missiles finally annoyed her too much. [01:17] Solver, hahaha [01:17] @solver: Surely the uninstallation deal can be modded in. :cute: [01:17] The Order of the Whirling Blade=Knight unit you get apon killing a helicopter. [01:18] Let the alarm contact Civ Anon if you play 23 hours a day. :D [01:18] * Makahlua waves to Gramps :D [01:18] Makahlua: You stop and go to bed when the sun comes up? Man, I wish I had that kind of willpower. I, of course, end up playing one more turn, first. (And you know where that leads!) [01:18] I loved Firepower in Civ II. [01:18] did Moo3 work after the patches? [01:18] playing by induction? [01:18] Yeah, more or less Soren. [01:18] I wonder how Soren felt when he read that part of the IGN review... :) [01:18] Soren: Yeah. Except for that last bug I mentioned. [01:18] It worked. Still sucked. [01:18] yep, civ2 is king [01:18] I wonder if FIraxis can be sued for lost earnings due to failing college ;) [01:18] * Atma liked it. q= But she's odd. [01:18] It took some modding to make it fun though. [01:18] Nice one Markos :b [01:18] * Wot has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:18] Good question senethro... i wonder that myself [01:18] i cant wait for the mods [01:18] That really obnoxious bug with the missiles, though, finally got to me. [01:18] How did that first review feel Soren ? [01:19] there are some genius modders out there [01:19] @ Sirian : Ingraned habit from college/high school : that way I at least got enough sleep to be ambulatory later :X [01:19] Senethro: You can't sue the baker for making the cake too sweet! It's your responsibility not to overeat! :) [01:19] A all nighter might happen again with Civ4 [01:19] What, the visibility stuff? [01:19] Grandpa Troll has to sit down in corner, after taking a cold shower since it will be two weeks before his game arrives [01:19] Still, if a Knight can kill a Gunship, did you guys like that part in the exclusive review? Because the reviewer wrote like it was a common problem [01:19] however, people should be aware that the strength of a damage unit is modified by the damage. (A half-damaged 20 STR unit acutally has a STR of 10) [01:19] Its like, okay, I have these great fleets, and someone half way down the tech tree lobs missiles at me, and since they DISAPPEARED my ships couldn't actually shoot them down... so boom, there goes a fleet. [01:19] Civ4 must be good. It got 0.2 more than Moo3 on review :p [01:19] A Knight CAN'T Kill a gunship normally [01:19] The chance is less than one in a million [01:19] Not the knight Vs gunship thing again :( [01:19] poor GT :( [01:19] :) [01:19] Its the new spear vs tank ;) [01:19] Theres an unofficial patch for the visibility bugs Atma, beyond that you just need good recon ships. [01:19] we'll post this in bold somewhere " people should be aware that the strength of a damage unit is modified by the damage. (A half-damaged 20 STR unit acutally has a STR of 10)" [01:19] Either the IGN guy used a damaged unit [01:19] * sigh * [01:19] * BlueWaldo has joined #apolyton [01:19] Or he got the one in a million chance [01:20] well at least the time gap isnt so wide between a knight and a gunship [01:20] ChaosLord: I had that! q= And I tried the patch. Never did fix it. [01:20] yeah, why did moo3 get 9.2 if it was so bad? http://pc.ign.com/articles/386/386281p1.html [01:20] the combat is abstract so one knight could have found an RPG [01:20] because IGN sucks :D [01:20] * Grendel hopes to meet the King in Civ IV... [01:20] Because Gamespot also said Call to Power had great AI? [01:20] Because IGN doesn't play games, they review them. [01:20] lol [01:20] Reviewers are all sometimes making mistakes like that [01:20] ctp does solver [01:20] Night all. It's way past bed time. And I got work todo tomorrow. [01:20] well, it's either a problem or it isn't... I feel quite confident that the system is a lot less fluky than ever before. The one exception - and this is more of a design change that people should be aware of - is that damaged unit DO NOT hit at full strength. [01:20] :) [01:20] fimp: the tester was bribed, obviously [01:20] tata gramphos [01:21] so after tomorrow i might forgive you Firaxis guyz for Pirates! [01:21] Ahh, soren don't sipp the beans on that yet :p [01:21] Damaged units not hitting at full strength is a good thing, Soren :) [01:21] cu gramphos [01:21] oh, on other thing... RIGHT-CLICK MOVES... LEFT-CLICK SELECTS [01:21] May be testers concentrated so much on spearman vs tank that they didn't even check knight vs gunship ;) [01:21] Does middle click do anything? [01:21] I heard someone say that the fighters in Central Asia are on a medieval level, but have shot down SOviet and Russian aircraft for years with imported RPGs. Maybe thats whats going on. [01:21] Yes you did it! Yaaaaay! [01:21] Damaged units not hitting at full strength = reason why to ph34r those catapults and artillery. [01:21] you should tattoo that on your' forehead Soren... ;) [01:21] middle click centers the map [01:21] do you use the mouse wheel in the game? [01:21] i really dont miss civ3's right click menu Soren :) [01:21] Atma: Hmm I haven't had that problem, missiles do dissapear from sight occasionaly, but I always spot em before they actually hit me. [01:21] there is, of course, the option to use the right-click menu and not move ;) [01:21] * gramphos has left #apolyton [01:21] mouse wheel zooms in/out [01:21] So damage has a quadratic effect on combat? [01:21] Trip: thank goodness for that [01:21] Soren promised to scream right-click moves when the game ships :D [01:21] and if you can't stand that, there is an option for the old-school right-cllick menu [01:21] and move using the numeric keypad? [01:21] cool [01:22] (which I was surprised to discover was not in Civ2!) [01:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [01:22] * Grandpa has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:22] yes, numpad moves too [01:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [01:22] I wasn't ?? [01:22] Ah good. [01:22] w00t [01:22] Numpad is how I move. [01:22] numpad still moves as well [01:22] Any friendly configuration for the Laptops? [01:22] what's the deal about right clicking? did someone get it wrong in a review or somehting? [01:22] btw, forward/back bguttons on the mouse cycles through units in a stack [01:22] oh, btw, CONGRATS for getting Nimoy on board for the game, great choice [01:22] I use ctrl-g to move always [01:22] and HOME END PGUP PGDN moves too? :) [01:22] * Yin has joined #apolyton [01:22] Question: Does the damage the unit does change throughout a single combat in accordance with health as the unit gets damaged? Or does it stay constant at what it was at the beginning of the fight? If the former, it seems the unit would be more likely to lose the whole combat if it damaged first? [01:22] ChaosLord: aw well, that is what finally got it for me, if I had the money I'd be pre-ordering GalCiv2, its nice and has the more detailed planet settling that was the best thing from MoO3 for me. [01:22] have since Civ 3 [01:22] no, it's just going to throw some veterans for a loop [01:22] I still need to learn all the control shortcuts. [01:22] After release, will Firaxis produce any mods for their site, or just use fans? [01:22] Wow, didn't know that, great use for those mouse buttons [01:22] right on grendel [01:23] I trust Solver and Marks word as put alot of thought in what they post so Civ4 must be good [01:23] Vovan: constant [01:23] Ctrl-Mousewheel also scrolls through a unit stack ;) [01:23] Atma: They're doing more then just planetsize this time? [01:23] another one of my favorites [01:23] ChaosLord: Though GalCiv2's one is seeming rather more like Ascendancy [01:23] there are a ton of hot-keys and such (many I have forgotten!) [01:23] * Alva needs a chart for all teh shortcuts [01:23] ChaosLord: Yeah! Its a tile-based one that's rather like Ascendancy, though a bit more detailed. [01:23] Slax: there will be more content post-release [01:23] Soren are the key's editable? [01:23] German pc magazine "PC Games" has a review based on build 0.84 (and later 0.87), and they have encountered so many bugs, they didn't even bother to rate it. Even multiplayer didn't work for them. I know they didnt have the final version, but this is the first time I heared massive bugs. Any comment on what really happened ? [01:23] thanks fred [01:23] Atma: Hmm, never played Ascendancy. [01:23] ah, i see. well so much has changed I don't expect to pick right back where I left off with CIV III. going to be a whole new learning experience for me. [01:23] Are there special units that don't lose power from damage, much like Alpine Troops in Civ 2 ignored terrain for movement purposes? [01:23] Sure, use XML, Markos :) [01:23] you can edit them via xml... [01:23] lol [01:24] How about custom map sizes? [01:24] Ascendancy: Memoroble for WORST... AI... EVER... ! ... ... ... Ever. [01:24] * ACS_MarkG goes to hide his ignorance [01:24] ChaosLord: Great game, unfortunately abandonware. Or rather, WOULD have been a great game, except for the fact that its AI was less than useless and it didn't have multiplayer. [01:24] MeaCulpa, what game? [01:24] Ah. [01:24] Sirian: Exactly. Though it coulda been a great game besides that. [01:24] I haven't found them yet (shortcuts), where are they? [01:24] MeaCulpa: which issue was it? can't remember the preview [01:24] Atma: was there not a fan-patch improving AI? [01:24] Webdesigner hey Markos ;) [01:24] Senethro: Yeah, and it didn't help enough. [01:24] Civ4. [01:24] shame [01:24] ...how bad was this AI, exactly? [01:24] I would crank it up, install that patch, and walk over the AI. [01:24] VladAntlerkovWFR: If you looked at its planets... [01:24] civ4 has bugs? not possible [01:25] Atma: Had some horrid imbalances, too. Needed a lot of work! No decent automation, ENDLESS micromanagement... Man, don't get me started on Ascendancy! :) [01:25] meaculpa: most of the previews have been based on early version and have gone fine. Not sure what happened there... [01:25] * javauser383 has joined #apolyton [01:25] Meaculpa, you're not supposed to rate a beta..... [01:25] So Soren, are you excited that the game has finally released? [01:25] Sirian: Mostly going back to the "ohmigod bad AI". [01:25] It is not a preview, but as a matter of fact a review (although they didnt have the store version, go figure). Current edition, 12/05. [01:25] Sirian: The automation was run by the same AI as the computer players, hence the part that didn't work. (; [01:25] Soren, Any vacation plans? [01:25] * javauser383 is now known as AdrianH [01:26] maybe a space shot? [01:26] much like how automating workers causes them to improve territory like the AI does? [01:26] VladAntlerkovWFR: Exactly. [01:26] Custom map sizes? :p [01:26] MeaCulpa: well, v84 was about two weeks before shipping. (final version was v100) We prefer mags to review the final product. Not sure why they do it like that in Germany. [01:26] I was just wondering what went wrong there. It seems everything went wrong for them that could go wrong. :-( [01:26] * Ryoo_Garm has joined #apolyton [01:26] * Ryoo_Garm is now known as DoubleX [01:26] ChaosLord: Also, for ship construction you have X hardpoints on a ship to put stuff, again rather like Ascendancy's method, so, I'm looking forward to when I can afford it. Maybe ask for it (or a pre-order) for christmas. [01:26] Stuie, earlier they said there is no size limit but 150*150 takes some time to load [01:26] and the change log every week was MASSIVE :) [01:26] oh god how did this get there I am not good with civIV? [01:26] Two weeks ago we were on v87 not v84 [01:27] was the reviewer like that? [01:27] Thanks Sir0sis! [01:27] But is it in the GUI? [01:27] Atma: Hmm I'll have to check it out then. But I was less then impressed with GalCiv. [01:27] Indeed it was, Incredible how much work you guys get done in a week [01:27] well, you'll find out soon enough whether they were right or not. I'm guessing it might be a compatibilty thing (which you usually work on late) [01:27] ChaosLord: I guess I'm not that picky, but I found GalCiv worth the money I paid for it and a good distraction when I should have been studying. [01:27] I guess it's competition. Get it out as the first mag, have a nice cover with a headline, the usual stuff.... [01:27] accuracy be damned [01:28] Stuie: look here for a builders guide: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140519 [01:28] I'd be curious to know if there's a part of the game you tried to get right, but couldn't actually make it 100% satisfiable...? [01:28] Any thoughts on future mods for Civ4 Solver? [01:28] Sirosis, Soren's not geting any vacation until pitboss and the sdk is out :doitnow!: :) [01:28] enough lurking for me - night all, good luck getting your paws on the game [01:28] you think he's going to admit to that? [01:28] ^_^ [01:28] * Isak has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:28] How much choice do we have over graphics options? I'm unfortunately on a system that's just above min reqs... [01:28] Open question: Does anyone foresee a multiplayer culture similar to that of other games forming around Civ4, with clans etc now that players will be ranked? [01:28] Don't ask me, I'm not a modder, I'm a SP and AI nut [01:28] night Isak, thank you for being here [01:28] * DoubleX has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:28] Question: I find it strange why we cannot nuke our units if they are in the range of our Nuke, why this limitation? [01:28] I got six months of good gaming out of GalCiv. ... I'm not just a Civophile. Soren got to hear a lot of input on how things were done in other games: what they did right, what they could have done better. [01:29] Nah Senethro, or at least not on a large scale. [01:29] has anyone been nuked by the AI? [01:29] See you Isak. [01:29] naveed... if you were going to use a nuke in real life, wouldn't you make sure your own troops were out of the way first?? [01:29] Sirian's actually a big shooter fan too, and skilled at it :) [01:29] ike: No. ^_^ [01:29] sm, not me [01:29] Shooter as in side-scrolling? =D [01:29] Thanks again Sirosis. So I gather the answer is "no". ;) [01:29] ike0481: I would do that if it is feasible, for the greater good ;) [01:29] No, shooter as in Half-Life and similar :) [01:29] * Atma soooo misses the good ol' classic scrolling shooters. [01:30] Oh, FPSes. )= [01:30] Nah, shooters. FPSes are a cliche name :p [01:30] Soren: I was surprised to see in a poll that I posted here that many gamers don't want a "killer" AI. Would you say, though, that the hardest level in Civ 4 is very hard to beat, even for hardcore civvers who want a "killer" challenge? Congrats on Civ 4, by the way. :) [01:30] I voted for Killer AI. [01:30] Well, the answer is no but you'll be limited on how long you want to wait for the map to load [01:30] I want to get thrashed. [01:30] lol, I though this guy was Soren Johnson. Who is he then? http://media.ign.com/thumb/116/1168999/civ4interview_070805b_qthigh_thumb.jpg [01:30] yin sighting! [01:30] Soren: take the opprtunity to congratulate Yin on having to eat the game box [01:30] Yin is here? [01:30] Yin, yes, we discussed that earlier. only Aeson has been able to beat Deity [01:30] ChaosLord, where do you live? I could arrange something... ;-) [01:30] * Masuro has joined #apolyton [01:30] To those in the know: How much choice do we have over graphics options? I'm unfortunately on a system that's just above min reqs... [01:31] Hey masuro :) [01:31] Heh, by the computer, not people. [01:31] If the AI is moddable, anyone could try to make a killer AI. [01:31] ;-) [01:31] You can turn down some resolution detail [01:31] you can change a few things LordNword [01:31] Hi there. Where's the whiskey? [01:31] And turn on single unit graphics [01:31] Will work [01:31] * ike0481 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:31] solver: aeson has already beaten civ4 deity?;) [01:31] Hi everybody. Ready to eat some of the game box...if it ever arrives! [01:31] * Atma yeahs, has a Radeon7500 Mobility, has the T&L of the desktop, but is a bit slower [01:31] Aeson - figures he's work it out. :0 [01:31] LaRusso: yes [01:31] ...and Deity has been able to beat me it should be pointed out [01:31] *he'd [01:31] yeah i am worried about my specs as well. will it run on a 32MB card? [01:31] LordNword: mine is even below... hope it'll work anyway - Pirates was working flawlessly, too, so my hopes are high... [01:31] And Aeson admits that he was lucky in some cases, too [01:31] how so? [01:31] Cool. [01:31] Aeson: don't be so modest :p [01:32] * Eidalac has quit IRC (Quit: Eidalac) [01:32] AAR plz [01:32] yin: I would say at the hardest level, Civ4 is the hardest Civ to beat yet. [01:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [01:32] What Antler said! [01:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [01:32] :doitnow!: [01:32] I know this is off topic [01:32] Soren: Does the people with high end graphics card benefit in any way? Does the game uses Vertex and Pixel shaders for some effects? [01:32] most fans don't really want that type of challenge, but if you play at Deity, we assume you do. [01:32] I certainly went down in difficulty levels [01:32] anyone see the xbox 360 when trying to obtain civ 4 [01:32] you should ship aeson in every bo [01:32] x [01:32] Alva, My first game of PBEM was with you and you whipped my butt. Care for a rematch? ;) [01:32] lol [01:32] yah, it won't self-destruct like Sid sometimes would with unit support [01:32] I still can't beat Civ4 Monarch [01:33] Soon, Masuro, soon ;) [01:33] hey [01:33] :) [01:33] Monarch? heh [01:33] is civ4 monarch comparable to civ3 monarch ? [01:33] Soren: Well done then. Something Solver wrote is quite amazing to me: Units that pillage near your cities while waiting for reinforcements? Wow! [01:33] * Darkslayer has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:33] um, monarch is the level i usually played...tight wins [01:33] sm, harder [01:33] Oh dear, we're definitely going to have to break this game down a bit in ye ole strategy forum :) [01:33] I like challenging AI Soren, I just don't want cheats to be the reason for it to be challenging. So I stuck to Monarch/Emperor in Civ3. [01:33] I can beat Civ4 Monarch with a good start, but... well, eh, the AI gets annoying with constant wars when they dun even share a border wif me. [01:33] I can't wait to see what the AU comes up with. [01:33] Monarch was fun. Emperor was a little too much MM. [01:33] teaching the AI as well as the players. [01:33] I could beat Emperor quite easily in C3, not so in C4 [01:33] Senethro: You may need more than one post! (There may be more than one right answer to various questions). [01:34] fimp: that's Jesse Smith. [01:34] I can't wait for the SDK and AI mods to start coming out. [01:34] I'm of the opinion that AIs on the most challenging setting are allowed to cheat, but they should be able to perform well without cheats, too. [01:34] soren: does ai learn from our play and adjust itself accordingly? sorry to ask such a stupid question. [01:34] I want to see what civ modders can produce. [01:34] Civsims! [01:34] By the way, I've decided that everybody who has already been playing Civ 4 for the past weeks must pay Poly a Luxury Tax. [01:34] lol [01:34] Sirian: no doubt. But I remain confident that the players will eventually change the way the game is played ;) [01:34] i didn't realize that people throw things at news people... [01:35] * nye has joined #Apolyton [01:35] wooot [01:35] I will miss the swamps! [01:35] hi nye [01:35] i was watching a movie trailer about it... [01:35] all bow to the tiger!!! [01:35] NYE fashionably late. :) [01:35] LaRusso: it would be cool to have a self organizing AI in a Civ Game [01:35] ChaosLord: http://media.pc.ign.com/media/724/724223/img_2562937.html <- GalCiv2 screenshot on planet construction/etc [01:35] hello, all [01:35] * AdrianH has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:35] He always is, feline for something ;) [01:35] Hey Nye. [01:35] * TauCeti has joined #apolyton [01:35] Hi, NYE, long time no see :( [01:35] "Political Capital: something interesting goes here" [01:36] heh [01:36] are the turks included in the game? [01:36] VladAntlerkovWFR: S'from a beta. q= [01:36] I know. [01:36] ^_^ [01:36] rave, no [01:36] but still. ^_^ [01:36] Koreans in the X-pack? [01:36] hi alva, you need to check back in in some familiar places [01:36] Hope so. :) [01:36] No, we need Carthage. [01:36] yin, only if you're a good boy and eat your box ;) [01:36] Its not a civ game without Carthage. [01:36] Phoenicia :doitnow!: [01:36] sure have, storm is gathering, remember ;) [01:36] * sadaiya_g has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:36] Any crazy feature removed from the game? [01:36] I'd eat it with KimChee [01:37] mmmm kimchee [01:37] Ethiopia!! For once!! [01:37] Shall I send you some, Yin? [01:37] havent had that in forever [01:37] Put Abbasiads in the expansion, a city from Arabian Nights would be so cool [01:37] yin you like cucumber kimchee? [01:37] * Fred has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:37] Masuro: There's a great market near us. Buy it all the time. [01:37] Atma: So its zoned land, suitable for buildings/mining/farming, stuff like that? [01:37] Fireforge: Love it! [01:37] Are paratroopers in the game? [01:37] No sgrig. [01:37] shame [01:37] my prediction for favorite feature people haven't been talking about: 2-move workers [01:37] * LaRusso has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:38] huh? [01:38] Soren how is Katherine acting up in v1?? :) [01:38] That must be great. Kimchee should be a National Wonder in Civ. :) [01:38] 2-move workers whaaaa? [01:38] So Yin... You wouldn't have wanted to read my day one review anyway. Not this time! (Biased!) [01:38] ChaosLord: S'what it seems. If I could afford to pre-order, I'd have the beta in hand now. [01:38] Yeah - but what's that do for the Indian UU? [01:38] * is_jahanzeb has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:38] I suspect the fact that you can play in windowed mode might be popular as well :) [01:38] Yes, Kimchee should give health to your people and repulsion to your enemies. [01:38] yes, any justification for the Indian UU, it seesm so weak. [01:38] (not as broken as it would be in Civ III, since workers are more expensive to begin with, but...) [01:38] 3>2>1 [01:38] Atma: That looks good then, i'll wait till release though and see for sure. [01:38] Sirian: You can still e-mail me that review. ;) [01:39] this is fun. we should do this until we can get the game tomoroow [01:39] Locutus: Windowed mode?! =D =D =D =D =D [01:39] FINALLY! =D [01:39] Yay!!! [01:39] windowed mode? [01:39] OMG. [01:39] 3 isn't THAT much greater than 2. ;) [01:39] Yeah, windowed mode is nice. [01:39] what did I say? :) [01:39] The only thing that can't beat my Civ addiction is my AIM addiction. [01:39] OMGWTFBBQ. [01:39] why?v @ lord [01:39] No more alt+tabbing back and forth. [01:39] Day 1 for me was a LONG time ago. Technically, I can't. Legalities, you know. [01:39] something w00tly [01:39] can we trade other units than workers as in civ2? [01:39] Sulllas walkthrough showed windowed mode [01:39] * Fintilgin has joined #apolyton [01:39] Vlad: Dun forget ROFLcopter. (; [01:39] Atma [01:39] Aim is bad for your health [01:39] * rumpo_kid has to wash the dishes and go to bed [01:39] Atma, you mean the only thing that does beat it? [01:39] No Alt-tab from civ4 to desktop ? [01:39] Technical Smechnical [01:39] night all [01:39] wait, people actually used unit trading in Civ II? ~_^ [01:39] Does the game comes with the hotkey for 'The Boss is Coming!' ? [01:39] Errr, yeah, LordNword, m'kinda tired and distracted by Civ3 on my desktop. [01:39] The workers are great. Indian workers are awesome [01:39] re: Indian UU, economic bonuses are po-o-o-werful. Trust the beta-testers [01:39] Er, I just meant that using windowed mode would mean I didn't need to alt+tab. [01:39] part [01:40] quit [01:40] what's the indian UU? [01:40] I don't know how alt+tab works with fullscreen. [01:40] * rumpo_kid has left #apolyton [01:40] Trust in Soren! All others pay cash. [01:40] ... wow, and there I just messed up again, Civ3 on my laptop, this is my desktop. Heh. Yeah. I should go eat. [01:40] Don't eat the cardboard! Uh... redefine ICS in to something that will let you off the hook. =) [01:40] how does it work for dual monitors? [01:40] yes, trading units was a feature I used a lot to support weaker civs to my enemies [01:40] is the map spread accross all your monitors? [01:40] goodnight [01:40] * fimp has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [01:40] Finite City Sprawl? ^_^ [01:40] lol [01:40] Yeah, there you go. [01:40] I want infinite [01:40] Countably Infinite City Sprawl? [01:40] He can say the I was a typo. [01:40] is there a limit on number of cities? [01:40] sm, yes [01:41] Well, what has Soren said about ICS? Was it an overt goal to kill it? [01:41] i dont know of any game that supports dual monitors [01:41] Overt goal? Nope. The man doesn't know his own strength, though! [01:41] what if you have 3 or 4 monitors? [01:41] sm, http://apolyton.net/dir/index.php?id=4860&t=fullimage&toprate=5.0000&tophits=5501&cat=346 [01:41] sm: A few do. [01:41] it was certainly a goal to kill it, and I think all testers and devs agree that the goal was reached [01:41] well, building Civ in a way that building a huge empire would be a mistake is a pretty perverse goal... as I defined it, the goal was that building a settler should not always be the "best" choice [01:41] dual monitor photo :) [01:41] I think the meeting went something like: If we get rid of ICS yin will eat the box. Ok let's get rid of it. [01:41] Oh man! Not the duel monitors again!!! [01:41] night all, cheers [01:41] hehehehe [01:42] See ya Naveed [01:42] plus, giving people more of a "super-city" advantage was a good goal anyway... [01:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [01:42] He killed it by accident. We caught him with the gun in hand, powder on his fingers... Looking wide-eyed. "I didn't know it was loaded!" Riiiiiight. [01:42] All hail Soren! By the way, I met a guy here in town named Soren and asked him about Civ 4 just for the hell of it. He just blinked at me. [01:42] He didn't, did he?! Markos :shame: :shame::shame: :p [01:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [01:42] * Atma sneaks off to go get herself some food. [01:42] Sirian: RDF. ^_^ [01:42] * naveed has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:42] (really damn funny) [01:42] (in that it's actually funny) [01:42] So is there a city limit like there was a 512 base limit for SMAC? [01:42] Don't think so [01:42] every call i get i hope its the EB guy calling about my pre order [01:43] EB will have it tomorrow [01:43] i guess its gotta be tomorrow [01:43] Soren: You realize that because of you I will be eating cardboard. I hope you can live with yourself. ;) [01:43] better be early [01:43] * Alva prank calls danmd [01:43] Untimately, the problem with "ICS" in the classical form is just the free tile problem. Surprisingly, I think we fixed it without messing around with that. [01:43] Mmm... cardboard.... [01:43] * JohnT has joined #apolyton [01:43] danmd: Same here! I got a call like that earlier... just got dead air. ;.; Evil. ;.; [01:43] yin: we'll manage just fine [01:43] Free tile problem? [01:43] LOL! [01:43] it must be Alva [01:43] i kept getting those calls all day [01:43] there is no city limit, btw [01:43] or unit limit? [01:44] is there a map size limit? [01:44] i cant freaking wait [01:44] the only fun part is when you end up with "New New New New New New York" [01:44] ! [01:44] heh [01:44] lol [01:44] What Vlad asked! [01:44] im going Mad! [01:44] I remember that in Civ III, there was a theoretical upper limit of something like 10^21 tiles to a side. [01:44] lol [01:44] more than enough [01:44] There is still true pathfinding in play: so maps will bog more if they are larger. Every machine and player (combined) will have a practical limit to what is or isn't playable. [01:44] * joe1839 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:44] not that everyone ever tried it. [01:44] there is probably a map-size limit, but it would be memory-bound (probably you video card would die first) [01:44] Yeah, Soren posted something like with expansion [01:45] * mudhut has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [01:45] Any comparison to how well Civ3 ran on large games to Civ4 on large games? Quicker, slower? [01:45] quicker [01:45] By the way... we DO have maps bigger than anything from Civ3. BIGGER. Not all of them, though. [01:45] Ah, good. [01:45] the pathfinding is a lot faster this time [01:45] thats good news [01:45] awesome...bigger [01:45] good [01:45] * SirOsis waves bye bye. Been fun. I'll be playing Civ4 tomorrow! [01:45] Does the pathfinding recalculate when borders change? [01:45] i'm looking forward to what the limit is with an athlon64x2 4200 with 2g of ram and an 850xt :) [01:45] cya Sirosis! [01:45] see ya Sir ;) [01:46] and you can have proper spawn points [01:46] on a world map? [01:46] * SirOsis has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:46] Have we covered naval invasions? I'm finding in Ages of Man that they seem quite hard to program. [01:46] I've resigned myself to the fact that whatever upper limit there is, it won't be enough [01:46] (that drove me crazy on Civ 3) [01:46] lol [01:46] You mean preset start locations for Civs in a scenario danmd? [01:46] hehe [01:46] The standard size maps are bigger than Civ3 standard maps. The large and huge maps, most of them, are smaller than Civ3 equivalents and also run (standard) with fewer civs. [01:46] just a random but using world map [01:46] and having proper spawn points [01:46] Civs are now 2, 3, 5. 7, 9, 11 standard, with 11 being standard for Huge maps. [01:46] yin: I've worked hard on it. Ultimately, you can't get a true answer from me. You'll have to paly it yourself or listen to others [01:47] Was there much discussion about adding animal units? [01:47] and germans spawn in germany [01:47] * Guynemer has joined #apolyton [01:47] Hey Guy! [01:47] brazilians in brazil [01:47] Yeah, that still qualifys as a scenario, but it should be in since they're including so much editing capability. [01:47] * Alva is starting on the good beer as all the pils is gone. [01:47] if you want to know if naval invasions work, play the Desert War scenario as an allied civ... [01:47] naval invasions are much improved over Civ 3, that's for sure [01:47] lol, this chat will never end until all the guys in the channel get a copy of the game [01:47] thanks [01:47] Hey Stuie. Can't wait for my preorder. :) [01:47] Soren: Anyway I can remote desktop to your computer, say, for the next 97 hours? [01:47] it looks awesome [01:47] lol - you and... everyone else.. [01:47] i am excited for the keyboard overlay! [01:47] * Sirotnikov has joined #apolyton [01:47] so no more landings with 1 galleon escorted by 3 frigates with 1 warrior and an archer? [01:48] its like the Old School days of packaging [01:48] like Infocom [01:48] hi, guy, jt [01:48] yo yo yo, hey :) [01:48] and wire bound manual FTW [01:48] I sent a couple emails to Firaxis with suggestions to improve Civ4, notably bringing back the personality from SMAC... looks like someone had the same idea! [01:48] * LordNword has quit IRC (Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.68.5.1 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]) [01:48] well, I once saw two AI's gang up on another one and land 24 tanks/infantry/choppers on the same turn. [01:48] what about the doom stacks, do ai still use them often? [01:48] Hmm, emailing them... [01:49] back up by a full aircraft carrier... [01:49] Wow [01:49] That sounds a lot less risky then tattooing ideas onto my body and streaking around infront of their HQ. [01:49] rave: it'll mix it up [01:49] nice [01:49] That sounds good Soren! [01:49] how many aircrafts per carrier? [01:49] any modders here? [01:49] three [01:49] Oh yeah, aircraft. [01:49] any Swanky Mods in the works? [01:49] How exactly do those work? [01:49] Better than the one bomer/carrier in 3... [01:49] Is it just bombarding like in Civ3? [01:49] *bomber [01:49] how are choppers transported? [01:50] i'd say 2 bombers/1fighter for a bombing carrier [01:50] In transports. (Not being a wiseacre there!) [01:50] choppers are land units [01:50] I think 3 or 4 per carrier... [01:50] and 3 fighters per carrier for air superiority [01:50] no bombers on carriers [01:50] Will the AI get so good that it will email me telling me to come back for more a** kicking? [01:50] Used to be 3 fighters [01:50] Soren: What map settings give the computer the best chance to whoop on the human player? [01:50] yeah, 3 Fighters [01:51] Bombers can't land on Carriesr [01:51] so carriers are only to help gain air superiority? [01:51] Yin: Try Highlands map. [01:51] Then they have a very long range? The bombers? [01:51] Highlands are real fun [01:51] carriers, or allied cities [01:51] Glad that's gone. [01:51] Fighters are the primary naval attack air unit as well [01:51] You can base aircraft in allied cities? [01:51] Bombers get a penalty when attacking ships [01:51] * sadaiya_g has joined #apolyton [01:51] *...scribble down "Highlands map"...* What size? How many AIs? [01:51] I'm curious as to why the leaders changing with time graphics were removed? I loved that feature. :) Art/time issue, or just unpopular? [01:51] that type of invasion requires a pretty well-developed civ though... [01:52] the 'weird' kid from the suburbs... [01:52] can you build airstrips? [01:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [01:52] Hrm! Hey, can you run units through allied stacks/cities like in SMAC? [01:52] something about the suburbs man... [01:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [01:52] Yin: Highlands will give you a serious challenge [01:52] i don't think city people like people from the suburbs... [01:52] Larger should be harder. Normal amount of AIs will do. Might be a little tougher if you add or take away some AIs, I don't know yet. [01:52] hopefully the AI civ can become well develloped often? [01:52] O.K., Sirian and Solver: You have a DUTY to find this out ASAP. Back to work! :) [01:52] Large map with 8 (or was the default 9?) AIs are great [01:52] Sirian: do highland have different default barb settings btw? [01:53] I love the Large maps in Civ4, they don't lag [01:53] * javauser134 has joined #apolyton [01:53] always seems to encounter a lot more on them. [01:53] And are just the right size and civ amount for my tastes [01:53] Alva: No. But with all that land... If you start in the middle, you may have enemies on all sides. If you start on an edge, you will be handicapped on Distance Maintenance and the expansion race. [01:53] So the AI gets better with more time to develop? For some AIs in other games, the opposite might be the case. [01:54] >>> "for my tastes" [01:54] not that I mind, just noticed it ;) [01:54] Yin: the AI knows how to use what it's got [01:54] Some people like more Civs. :) [01:54] Nice. [01:54] Yin: This AI does not break down later in to the game, as was customary in previous Civs. This is something that got a lot of priority! [01:54] Can hills be flattened to plains, etc? [01:54] Wow. [01:54] * Jon has joined #Apolyton [01:54] Thus if it has good land and such, it will use that well to bring a good late-game empire [01:54] slax, no, no terraforming [01:54] slax: no [01:54] But I was more impressed by another thing [01:55] AIs running 3 or 4 cities for the entire game, and being quite competitivie! [01:55] wow [01:55] At that point, I was just jaw-dropping. [01:55] Nice. [01:55] Nice. [01:55] Yeah, that's amazing. [01:55] That's what I like [01:55] No more ignoring the small empires I take it? [01:55] terraforming! thats the word I wanted! [01:55] Did Soren leave Firaxis? [01:55] They're not the top guys militarily for sure, but can keep up with you [01:55] * LoneWolf5050 has joined #apolyton [01:55] Do the early religions (Buddhism, Hinduism, etc) have an unfair advantage over the latter ones? Do you ever see AI Christianity or Islam become dominant faiths? [01:55] He culture-flipped over to Apolyton. [01:55] jon: didn't you know? [01:55] ha ha [01:55] noone tole you??? [01:56] told * [01:56] nope [01:56] culture-flipping? [01:56] lol [01:56] someone alert coracle [01:56] You lead designer now ;) [01:56] javauser, i [01:56] And jimmytrick [01:56] * VladAntlerkovWFR is now known as Coracle [01:56] javauser: Early religions do have some edge by hitting the board first, but they are all equal and later ones do dominate sometimes. [01:56] blah blah culture flipping bad civ III bad blah blah blah [01:56] my spelling is getting worse... :( [01:56] *i've seen ai with christian, confucian, islam dominant [01:56] * Coracle is now known as VladAntlerkovWFR [01:56] lol [01:56] Okay, thanks for the answers. [01:56] Hinduism is the largest religion in the world even still isn't it? [01:56] oh, NOOOOOOO!!!! [01:57] javauser: the first religions start normally, the last four get a free missionary, which may cause an AI who founded multiple religions to switch to the later one. Depends on a number of things. [01:57] Yeah, Hinduism is I think. [01:57] Actually, I think Islam may be ahead of it. [01:57] Culture Flipping is in... it was out, but the beta-testers convinced me to put it back in. [01:57] If you consider all the branches of Christianity to be one religion, then it's also ahead of Islam. [01:57] Go beta testers! [01:57] One other question, at what point did the Babylonians get cut from the game? There are early screenshots that show a flag with an Aurochs on it, and some early shots show Babylonian cities. [01:57] Christianity is the largerst religion in the real world, followed by Islam, then Hinduism. [01:57] yeah, point the finger at us :p [01:57] no hinduism is more dominant than islam [01:57] flipping rocks [01:57] Soren: Does it boot military units out, or just kill them all? [01:57] christianity is #1, Islam #2 (will flip in the next few decades though) [01:58] I've had a few(rare) occassions of 20+ units going poof in culture flips. [01:58] probably more like the next 100 years, but yea. [01:58] culture flipping makes sense [01:58] hmm, not sure on Christ there Locutus [01:58] By the way, if Poly were to send some form of alcohol to Firaxis as a gift, what form should said alcohol be? I was thinking dark beer. Others said champagne. [01:58] yeah, I think Christ is a bit of a dodgy guy too ;) [01:58] all of europe is still seen as christ but as you well know... [01:58] http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html [01:58] flipping isn;t as random and unpredictable, CL [01:59] I really like flipping in Civ4 [01:59] Me too [01:59] Yuengling! [01:59] Oh you get warning signs? [01:59] You always get a warning [01:59] City Flipping was one of the stickiest things we worked on. [01:59] And can try to prevent it [01:59] * Konquest has joined #apolyton [01:59] I actually likes it in C3 too. * gasp * [01:59] Ah, sounds good then. [01:59] The final solution has three levels. The default precludes cities "flipping back" after conquest. [01:59] You always get a revolt before a flip, too [01:59] that's a very good one [01:59] when culture flipping happens, you can see it coming for years ah3ead of time (it is literally defined by when the borders exapns over that city) [01:59] Sounds good. [01:59] and needed in C4 too [01:59] The other layers are enabling city flipping Civ3 style (more culture = flip) or turning it off altogether. [01:59] Perhaps dark beer along along with a picture of you eating cardboard, Yin? [01:59] alva, doesn't matter, there's SA, Africa, NA, etc. over a billion christians still [02:00] can you tell us some about the espionage missions? [02:00] Soren, it is? No flipping is possible unless borders expand over the city? [02:00] LOL. I plan a full video production. A friend of mine is good with iStudio or whatever that is. [02:00] I'm going to implement the Cthulhu mythos as a religion once I get the game. ^_^ [02:00] Yin :b: [02:00] So is there going to be a party again tomorrow after everyone actually has a copy? ;-) [02:00] Hmm, not only christ in africa, islam too. let's not get into a religious debate, shall we ;) [02:00] I don't get my copy for another week. [02:01] less party, more playing! [02:01] let's keep things fun :D [02:01] :( [02:01] Everyone in NA I should say [02:01] LoneWolf: If I had my copy, I'd be playing it. (Seriously). Don't look for me tomorrow! [02:01] maybe the Yin video will show up as an easter egg in an expansion? [02:01] LOL [02:01] heh [02:01] lol [02:01] They should use it for marketing [02:01] Or a wonder movie for the Apolyton Wonder [02:01] good night everybody [02:01] A scary 30-year old eating cardboard [02:01] Goodbye [02:01] gnight [02:01] 'Nite, Rhye [02:01] gn, Rhye [02:01] Night Rhye! [02:01] 'night Rhye [02:01] bye [02:01] bye rhye, thanks for coming! [02:01] baibai [02:01] Q: A little offtopic but in the Civ4 expansions are you thinking of including modern SA civs instead of just the usual Inca or such? Always annoyed me that Brazil or Argentina didn't get in. [02:01] nighto [02:01] You have Created the Great Wonder 'Civilization' with cuaway to Yin video [02:02] LOL [02:02] * FIRAXIS_Rhye has left #apolyton [02:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [02:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [02:02] Caramel sauce provides a nice contrast to the grainy texture of the cardboard, Yin. Don't ask why I know this. [02:02] I don't mean to bug you betas/Firaxis folks, but I am really curious about this: At what point did the Babylonians get cut from the game? There are early screenshots that show a flag that appears to depict an Aurochs (early Babylonian beast of burden) and several Babylonian cities. At what point were they cut? [02:02] I'll be sure to wear a Poly t-shirt that Markos is bound to send me now. [02:02] Wonder: Civilization. Happiness (male) + 300%. Birth Rate - 200%. Production - 50% [02:02] Solver: That's pretty much what the Firaxians said about the hardest dificulty level in Civ III when it was released. [02:02] guy: why does caramel... [02:02] ;) [02:02] "Your people hunger. Build a granary" [02:02] i am? [02:03] Ras I actually can confirm it myself right now [02:03] Deity will get beat plenty... I wouldn't worrya bout that [02:03] Sure. You said so 2 minutes from now. Remember? [02:03] eventually [02:03] Also, early previews mention 19 civs, as opposed to 18. [02:03] the one thing I want to see in an X-pack is the brewery!!! [02:03] heh [02:03] * luxnan has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [02:03] alva, and the beer religion? [02:03] And I still demand the Hebrews for expansion [02:03] * nods * [02:04] I wanna play Civ with my civ, too! [02:04] babylon was never in the game [02:04] thank you very much, have fun playing civ4, bye [02:04] Neither was belgium :( :D [02:04] ;) [02:04] ...Yin moves his settler near the beer resource... [02:04] * Rave has left #apolyton [02:04] * Vlad has joined #apolyton [02:04] * Vlad has left #apolyton [02:04] * Vlad has joined #apolyton [02:04] Solver: The hebrews were never a great civ :P dont' start this in the room [02:04] We thought of adding East Timor, though. ;) [02:04] see, it's catching on already ;) [02:04] Wow, that is surprising. I thought for sure I had them fingered. Who was the 19th civ in early builds? [02:04] Barley could quite easily be added. yum, yum [02:04] and Liechtenstein ;) [02:04] liechtenstein ftw [02:04] Leffe!!! [02:04] Heh, what about the SA civs? [02:04] Canada!! [02:05] chaoslord: the polish? ;) [02:05] Liechtenstein, mschectenstein. The people demand San Marino! [02:05] Mmmm, Leffe . . . [02:05] Croatia ;-) [02:05] If I was playing favorites, I would have added the Vikings, but I tried for the best 18 possible... [02:05] Micronesia... [02:05] ...yin sees the Germans want the beer resource...allows them to have it only after they agree to a good import deal... [02:05] Drinking one now, an old one ;) [02:05] I think you did great work Soren. [02:05] I vaguely remember a poll in which the Neanderthals were quite a popular option :cute: [02:05] * javauser134 is now known as Monkspider [02:05] Perhaps I'll pick one up this weekend. :) [02:05] Oh and if you guys add in a Native American civ into an expansion, don't do Iroquois or Sioux, do Cherokee instead. [02:05] German beer * sigh *, you guys still don't et it, do you. :shame: ;) [02:06] yeah, we all know czech beer is tghe best ;) [02:06] Usually 'bananas' do well in polls [02:06] Actually, if a town named Smithwicks comes to town, I'll clear out the Germans. [02:06] Haha. :D [02:06] @ bananas [02:06] soren, is there anything you initially planned to include in the game, but eventually didn't (myabe due to lack of time?), which you are sorry about? [02:06] alva. put down the knife, alva [02:06] bananas are in already [02:06] I just realized Neanderthals is a - what is the word for it? - for Netherlands. You know, where you can mix up the letters to get another word [02:06] I think Soren came to Poly once, checked the poll for "what civ you want in Civ4", and promptly added The Banana Republic. ... Then someone quietly let him know that the Banana thing has a special meaning. :) [02:06] hmmm.... [02:06] lol @ NYE [02:06] Yes, CHerokee! :doitnow!: [02:07] anagram [02:07] hmm, is it? [02:07] See, the support for Cherokee is overwhelming. They must be added! [02:07] Letting Trip have all the fun over there, Soren? :) [02:07] Hey soren, that's what we call them too :cute: [02:07] Mmmm, Cherokee is fun. (= [02:07] haha [02:07] * tankster has joined #apolyton [02:07] sirotnikov: not really! there's always a few things, but I don't believe in cramming stuff into games. Civ4 is what I hoped it would be. (when Civ3 was done, there were plenty of things I would have like to modify/add/cut...) [02:08] I wish I was playing Civ right now :( [02:08] What was the first element of Civ3 to get the axe? [02:08] Soren: Can we trade units in Civ4? [02:08] interesting. i appreciate the honesty. :) [02:08] Soren, could you or any of the betas comment on who this Aurochs/Bull flag belonged to? It does not appear to be associated with any of the civs in current screenshots. http://civilization4.net/files/info-images/unknown_flag.png [02:08] atma: you can gift units, but no trading... [02:08] so how about that hebrew civ? :p [02:08] Is Al Gore's head still represening the internet? haha [02:08] what's the saying again: perfection is not how you add but how much you can get rid off. [02:08] slax, yes, I'm pretty sure it is [02:08] something like that [02:09] Soren: So is it like Victoria's loan of a unit, or is it giving it to them outright, no getting it back? [02:09] I thought that Catholicism was the largest [02:09] Oh no Alva [02:09] rofl @ al gore [02:09] monkspider: a civ that will probably make a return appearance at some point, but it wasn't the Babs [02:09] I actually can hear Nimoy saying about that quote [02:09] Crazy [02:09] * Fintilgin has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:09] It's used in game?? [02:09] :o [02:09] Soren: What non-Civ games gave you the most useful inspiration for Civ 4? [02:09] Very interesting! Thanks for the answer Soren. [02:09] congrats, looks like we have a winner with civ4, JOB WELL DONE!!!!!! [02:09] Engineering quote :) [02:09] ah lol [02:09] Did anyone meet Mr Nimoy? [02:09] carthagians? [02:09] * Sirian has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [02:10] good question, yin :) [02:10] not on this planet ;) [02:10] carthage is in the greek world scenario... of course they don't have a proper leaderhead [02:10] * fintilgin has joined #apolyton [02:10] :) [02:10] Ah, Carthage. [02:10] what other scenarios are there? [02:10] For some reason I always end up with good games playing them. [02:10] bye now [02:11] yin: AoK? Kind of a stretch, but it shows up in the interface. SMAC, obviously. CtP for modding. Advance Wars for some combat stuff. HoMM, perhaps. [02:11] *sigh* here we go again :) WWII mediteranean, earth 1000 AD, US Independence War [02:11] All great games! [02:11] * Slax has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:11] wow [02:11] * Sirian has joined #apolyton [02:11] * luxnan has joined #apolyton [02:11] thanks [02:11] HoMM is great. :) [02:11] I have to say I'm surprised by how much SMAC has made it to Civ4 :) [02:11] Wow, my cable went out! (Had to log back in with dialup.) [02:11] I've decided you should continue working for Firaxis. I know you were waiting for confirmation. ;) [02:11] Power flickered, too. This Nor'Easter really pounded us. [02:12] i second that yin [02:12] it's ironic considering Civ3 was built off of SMAC and Civ4 was built from scratch. [02:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [02:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [02:12] Very much so! [02:12] Anything in particular you wanted to bring back from SMAC, apart from what we already know about (civics, quotes)? [02:12] Watch out for guys in long black coats and canes Sirian. [02:12] * BlueWaldo has quit IRC (Quit: ) [02:12] The biggest inspiration from SMAC was the diplomacy - that was that game's biggest strength [02:12] Indeed. [02:12] it's been raining here all day [02:12] And is Civ4's biggest strength, too [02:12] the one day I forget my umbrella [02:12] IMHO [02:12] * Wise_Ass has joined #apolyton [02:12] unit workshop! :doitnow!: [02:12] no, modding is civ4's biggest strength [02:13] yeah, I don't like rain anymore either [02:13] It's not for players, that's for modders :p [02:13] Are there any extra leaderheads you would have liked to include in the game but could not due to time/budget constraints? [02:13] use to consider it fine [02:13] Trip: You shouldn't be leaving the office anyway...out of respect for those who don't have Civ 4 yet. [02:13] i love mods [02:13] Trip: not rain, here. SNOW. [02:13] actually, i think that setterers should be replaced during the modern age, using a terrain improvement model like in CTP [02:13] * selfbiased has joined #apolyton [02:13] but i guess we'll be able to mod that in? [02:13] it was always tough... I knew people had a lot of questions about diplomacy, but it's not something we could sum up with bullet points. Really, it's just all the little details of implementing it right. I'm sure there is more we can do, but it's a big step up for a Civ game. [02:13] would be a bit of work, but sure, why not? [02:13] has their been thought to allowing two humans to play the same Civ? [02:14] * Solver has quit IRC (Quit: ) [02:14] Beyond likely XPs and patches, any idea of what is the next big project for the team? [02:14] is the civ3-style diplomatic table still implemented? [02:14] yes [02:14] * Masuro has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:14] jon: yes, you take turns on the same computer [02:14] Soren: Would I be correct in saying that you've tried to balance Civ4 "high" as opposed to "low"? To me Civ3 was balanced low, nothing was allowed to be too powerful or too extreme. In comparison, SMAC was balanced high, with free markets and supply crawlers in 30 turns giving you an industrial/research output resembling the mid/late game of Civ. [02:14] It looks like you've tried to give the players lots of strong options for gameplay. [02:14] So Soren, you checked up on CTP? I think I can remember you saying you never played (was around the release of Civ3) [02:15] Soren: I wish a few dinos could be added as easter eggs in the early game. Just change the lion graphic. [02:15] jrjr [02:15] *hehehe [02:16] Yin: you haven't seen the panthers yet ;) [02:16] Did I hear something about Firaxis shipping Yin a box to eat? [02:16] Markos is :D [02:16] Actually, this is a good point. [02:16] who has the champaign? [02:16] I'd rather not eat my Bible box version. [02:17] Yeah, I knew that... [02:17] you're not getting of that easy mate :p [02:17] should've thought of that sooner :p [02:17] Could Firaxis send a regular, empty box? Starberry scented please. [02:17] senethro: excellent question! I was very conservative with Civ3, it was indeed balanced "low". SMAC in many ways is a RPG, not really a strategy game since the AI is not really capable of using all its options. I was determined that the AI in Civ3 should be able to make use of everything, but that led me down some bad roads (like no airlifting for workers! sorry, my bad!) With Civ4, I pushed myself hard to design it for humans, not for the AI. There were times [02:17] different wording, same idea @locutus ;) [02:18] * fingerbiter has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:18] * selfbiased has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:18] MP testing really helped with this... we could implement an idea and try it out immediately, without worrying about the AI. MP vs. SP is really the wrong way to think of development. They should actually help each other! [02:18] Soren: Does that mean the AI can't use all the options the human can? [02:18] very interesting Soren.. finish? [02:18] I've got dinner coming up soon, and some more stuff to be doing. I'm going to bow out now. Thanks for having me! [02:18] peace [02:18] Baibai hon, be well [02:19] Cya, Sirian. [02:19] Good to have you Sirian [02:19] CU, Sirian, thx for coming [02:19] cya, boss [02:19] lol [02:19] See ya Sirian [02:19] see you [02:19] Soren, have you played the original board game? [02:19] Against Sid. [02:19] g'night [02:19] It's damn windy out there. [02:20] * Sirian has quit IRC (Quit: 'Nite, all!) [02:20] have to admit, the music that plays when you go to www.civiv.com gives me goosebumps everytime i hear it. is that the same song from the inro movie to the final game? [02:20] 9 m/s, but very strong gusts. [02:20] * magnus has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [02:20] the main site music is indeed the intro movie/main menu music [02:20] senethro: there are some very different ways to play Civ4. Civ3 was often about execution down one path, but Civ4 has many paths (religion vs. great people vs. cottages vs. production) [02:21] Can you settle a bet? The trailer voice-over: Martin Sheen or a sound-alike? [02:21] I believe civ4.com' [02:21] cottages? [02:21] s music is in the game. [02:21] It was Martin Sheen [02:21] great news, very appropriate to the legacy of the game [02:21] I got a 100$ riding on it :D [02:22] You may not be thinking about them much now, but Great People and Cottages are perhaps the most important things to get a grip on when you start you new Civ4 game. (hey, new stuff to master is good, right?) [02:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [02:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [02:22] Soren: What would you say was Sid's management style on the game? I recall for Civ 2 he played builds sent to him from England, where Brian was working at that time. [02:22] * SpencerH has joined #apolyton [02:22] http://www.2kgames.com/civ4/compare_graphics.htm - This proves why Civ and Civ II graphics still please me more than Civ IV's. ;) [02:22] not easy, either. there is so much to do, so little time [02:22] Yeah, I just hadn't heard anything about them yet [02:22] btw, I hope everyone enjoys the soundtrack. I spent a lot of time picking out the pieces, and our sound guys and Jeff did great work with the diplo and early music. [02:22] Thanks for the detailed answer Soren. Although I have a strong MP bias, I'm very interested in how to design game rules that allow strategic and fun games. I like hearing the other side, the creators side. [02:22] thx for the advice soren [02:23] There is > 7 hours of music on the disc! [02:23] woah, no way!!!! [02:23] * Vlad has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:23] Soren: What format is it? [02:23] Yes, the music I've heard so far sounds great! Those touches are really important. [02:23] Heh, I'm glad Europes getting a DVD even if we're not getting it till Nov :) [02:23] WAAAY [02:23] OGG? MP3? [02:23] CDA? [02:23] music is great :) [02:23] i was a little aprehensive over the new graphics as well (too RTS), but all the reviews/vids i have seen are winning me over [02:23] Yeah, I'm really excited to have Civ-specific music back. Really missed that from Civ 1. Go 'Volga Boatman'! [02:23] btw, there will be a CD version for europe / middle east right? [02:23] well, if you are pure-MP, you can be more creative with your rule-set, but few games are pure-MP (even AoE is mostly single-player by pure numbers!) [02:23] I actually like the diplo music much better than the regular music. not much of a classical music fan myself. Dvorak's good though [02:24] The music is very good, I'm keep being surprised it's 'only' gets 8s on reviews [02:24] * Rasbelin pokes Soren with the music question. [02:24] i don't have enough money to buy a DVD rom as well [02:24] mp3 [02:24] Can you use your own tunes? [02:24] yep [02:24] Okay. :) [02:24] DVDs only cost 20$... it's not that expensive and it's a great investment... [02:24] "We Built This City" is going right in. [02:25] though I still use WMP on the background :) [02:25] Shameful, Yin. Shameful. [02:25] the music is mp3? what would be the feeling about loading my ipod up with those? [02:25] LOL! [02:25] yes, you can set your own music path. It'll grab random songs from within the tree. [02:25] Got a question for you on #civfanatics, Soren. :) [02:25] [02:25] Good to hear it's MP3, so that I can use them for my M3U playlists. [02:25] yeah, I use winamp in the background, since it allows you to skip uninteresting tracks [02:25] nuff said ;) [02:25] Chieftess: We don't support CFC around here. :P [02:26] :p [02:26] there's many great 'little' things in Civ4 that haven't even been mentioned yet but that will be found out sooner or later [02:26] I have a question that has already been answered but here we go... Can you build a decent city in places where it was previously a useless city? For instance in land surrounded by Tundra? [02:26] hopefully sooner rather than later, no sitings yet here in calgary canada [02:26] hey, got to give her points for trying ;) [02:26] :p [02:26] Wise_Ass, in some places. not everywhere [02:26] dvd roms cost at least 80$ is israel. [02:27] ouch [02:27] but I take it this has been improver, nye? [02:27] * sgrig has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:27] Argh, I hate 9am lecture. [02:27] Night all [02:27] I personnaly really like the idea to take away offense and defense, and only have power.. why did you do that? what things were you thinking about when you made that decision? [02:27] Night [02:27] ouch, ain't it possible to get one shipped via an internet site? [02:27] i have a soldier's salary of75$ per month [02:27] * JohnT has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:27] (addressed to Soren) [02:27] tundra can give you a nice little city. never huge, but productive [02:27] * danmd has quit IRC (Quit: ) [02:27] * Senethro has quit IRC (Quit: ) [02:27] * metaliturtle has joined #apolyton [02:28] * magnus has joined #apolyton [02:28] Loc: if you turn the music on/off (hit Ctrl-M twice) it'll jump to a new track... [02:28] Soren: Whose idea was it to have a real-world clock? Love it! Can I set it to fire a "I'm sick today" e-mail to work at a set time? [02:28] soren: with winamp it only takes 1 key press. I'm lazy :) [02:28] it's easier to adjust volume too [02:28] OK, i've watched that civ4 trailer a little too much. I'm starting to get twitchy [02:28] Wise_Ass, local food bonuses can make a city in hostile areas quite nice [02:29] jon: every game is a bucket. You can only fit so much stuff in it before the user can't fit it in their head. With specialized modifiers, the only reason to keep attack/defense was tradition, and we determined early to ignore tradition for Civ4. [02:29] Thnx [02:29] let me expand on that... [02:30] actually, I guess I got it right... I just found having two numbers to keep track of made things more complicated than I liked. You've got to take some stuff out to find room to put more stuff in. A lot of sequels fail at this. [02:30] * crowd goes silent * [02:30] 12true [02:30] Loc: I suppose you play in a windpow. That's a little different... [02:30] yeah we all shut up in anticipation [02:30] ;) [02:30] Same thing with movie sequels. [02:31] I'm gonna get that $100, alva. :) [02:31] ah, was that bet with you :D [02:31] 12Is there an expansion planned already? [02:31] lol [02:31] I saw it confirmed somewhere that it was indeed martin sheen [02:31] Indeed. [02:31] yep, martin sheen [02:31] * Zopperoni has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:31] not just that, but I also have hotkeys for winamp. ctrl-b = next track, ctrl-c = pause ctrl-+ = volume up, etc. I don't use many civ4 hotkeys anyway, so that works quite well for me. use it for all games, so it's second nature [02:31] Soren should direct "Titanic 2: The Resurfacing!" It's about resurrecting stuff that runs in to trouble. [02:32] * Alva starts dancing the cha cha cha [02:32] Cha Ching!!! [02:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [02:32] It really was? It wasn't the soundalike the Republicans used in 2004? [02:32] * javauser887 has joined #apolyton [02:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [02:32] Well I'll be damned. [02:32] yep, the real McCoy. [02:32] * javauser887 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [02:32] I'll make you a deal Guy ok ;) [02:32] * ACS_MarkG goes to get some sleep, thanks everyone for being here to celebrate the release of civ4 [02:32] Wait, I thought it was Spock. Not McCoy! [02:32] :( [02:32] hehe [02:32] Lame. [02:32] Cmon Mark!! [02:33] Funny, but lame. [02:33] LOL! [02:33] ;) [02:33] * ACS_MarkG is now known as ACS_MarkG_away [02:33] bye, mark [02:33] It's so sad that The West Wing isn't nearly as good as it used to be, and now he's leaving it :( [02:33] cu, Markos [02:33] What's the deal, alva? [02:33] See you Mark :) [02:33] Soren: Are there any leaders you wanted to include but could not due to time/budget constraints? [02:33] bye [02:33] * javauser698 has joined #apolyton [02:33] Give 50$ to a charity of your choosing, how does that sound? :) [02:34] yay, evaluation version java applet :) [02:34] or had to leave out (not by your choice)? [02:34] we always want to have more leaders and civs than we have time for... with a finite amount of resources, the best you can do is find the sweet spot balancing quality and quantity. [02:34] so we are being kicked out so Mark can go to bed? [02:34] I think extra leaders would be good for an expansion pack. Ramses, for example. [02:34] Mark, who is Mark??? ;) [02:34] Was Hitler fun to play when you guys were toying with that idea? [02:35] Dan has the keys to the liquor cabinet! [02:35] oh no, godwin's law [02:35] Ack, dammit [02:35] I'm pretty sure Hitler was never an option [02:35] Germany's too big a market... [02:35] You sir, are a gentleman. I'll make it $100, to Medecins Sans Frontieres. [02:35] I thought I saw somwhere that it was a consideration. [02:35] :b :b :b [02:35] :b [02:35] yeah, UGO wrote that but UGO are morons [02:35] A good choice it is ;) [02:35] Soren: How do you guys go about getting the Civilopedia info? [02:35] no, you couldn't even publish that in Germany if you did Hitler... [02:35] lol [02:36] Guynemer: Nice to see you owning up to the bet! [02:36] how about Stalin or Lenin or someone like that?/ [02:36] * javauser142 has joined #apolyton [02:36] Stalin would have been good for Russia too, miss him from Civ 1. Odd that you included Mao, given that... [02:36] rofl @ economical considerations by soren [02:36] or swaztika's [02:36] yeah, some of the early previews were, um, creative? is that the right family-friendly word? [02:36] well, mao's in... *ducks* [02:36] lol yeah that will work [02:36] yes, that would be very family friendly :) [02:36] * javauser142 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:36] @ Yin: true, very true * tips hat * [02:37] UGO has a reputation for being... creative ;) [02:37] Just the way it's gotta be, Yin. Thumbs up to alva for making it a donation. [02:37] * javauser698 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:37] True! [02:37] ;) [02:37] * Tacit_Exit has joined #apolyton [02:37] well, I have a charity youy can donate to ;) [02:37] will Civ4 be reviewed on XPLAY? [02:37] And thanks, too, to Alva for agreeing to eat this gamebox for me. That was really a nice thing to do. [02:38] lol [02:38] lol [02:38] lol [02:38] rofl [02:38] ahhhh [02:38] XPlay [02:38] I can't wait :D [02:38] gonna cost more than a 100$ though :p [02:38] does anyone have a REAL pic of the preorder box? [02:38] Can Workers still plant forests in CIV? [02:38] no [02:38] you can still chop them though [02:38] but forests might grow on you [02:38] at least, not that I know of [02:38] * Jaybe has joined #apolyton [02:39] ...ouch... [02:39] * Taliseian has joined #apolyton [02:39] at NYE [02:39] oh well [02:39] that would be nice [02:39] got army tommorow [02:39] just say no [02:39] if you could make a forest civilization [02:39] So will some one expand on cottages and what they do? [02:39] and its 2:40 AM [02:39] get a food bonus for [02:39] jon, forests and jungle can grow [02:39] being in forest [02:39] but less for fields [02:39] * metaliturtle has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:39] (I understood, I thought you were being punny) [02:39] ya with the enviro civic and woodsman units :) [02:39] make them like those peopl ein africa [02:39] Sirotnikov, where you located? [02:39] cottages give gold and grow into hamlets, villages and towns, which give more gold [02:39] so see you guys. and congrats on what appears to be an excellent game :) [02:39] i was that too [02:40] israel [02:40] why? [02:40] See you Siro :)) [02:40] just wondering. [02:40] Cya [02:40] mikeh isn;t here. p[lenty of slack to take up [02:40] do you loose the worker when you build it? [02:40] good n8 everybody and thx for the chat, game and all the fun! [02:40] no forest planting... taking it out allowed us to increase the amount of shields taking from forests significantly. (less design can be good!) Right now, there is a nice long-term, short-term tradeoff about cutting down your forest. Forest are now the old "acorn" grassland, meaning they give +1 hammer to all tiles. But they give +30 hammers when cut down. But there are powerful lumbermill improvements available later. [02:40] yeah, where is Mike? [02:40] * Sirotnikov has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:40] hmm ty Soren, no choppy for me :) [02:41] I still chop though :D [02:41] so you ge tthe same food from grasslands as forests? [02:41] * Grendel has quit IRC (Quit: Chatzilla 0.9.68.5 [Firefox 1.0.7/20050915]) [02:41] It's decisions like that, frankly, that will ADD to the strategy, I think, without adding lots of micro. Hat's off to you, Soren. [02:41] Can hammers from forests help wonder production? [02:41] alva, sleeping? [02:41] Now that you can't plant them? [02:41] no, you don't lose workers when building cottages [02:41] it's just a tile imp like any other [02:41] The hammers from chopping them down, I mean. [02:41] NYE: ??? [02:41] * SpencerH has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:41] * kittenOFchaos has joined #apolyton [02:41] forests is not a terrain type in Civ 4. There are combos (Grassland/Jungle, Plains/Forest, etc...) [02:42] heh [02:42] mike is sleeping [02:42] chaos: yes [02:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [02:42] ah, sorry [02:42] ah..ok.. [02:42] chaos, yes [02:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [02:42] cottages are another short/long-term thing. [02:42] Ah, thats nice. [02:42] if you have money issues in Civ4, you might not be "planting" enough cottages. [02:42] silly euros [02:42] Cottages are real fun :b, dangerous tactic though [02:42] they are basically like suburbs... like in the List [02:43] can cottages be built anywhere? [02:43] By the way, did the Civ 3 List stay alive for any of the Civ 4 discussion? [02:43] They look really cool, or make cities look cool rather. [02:43] only on flat land I think, not hills (or mountains, but nothing can be built on mountains) [02:43] mines can't be built on mountains? [02:44] no, nothing, they are completely useless tiles [02:44] well, they block movement, that can be very useful sometimes [02:44] Problem with cottages is they conflict with farms & other improvements, right? [02:44] well, it's in my office actually. (It's a little too big for it's own good, though. Plus, Civ4::Civ3 as Civ2::Civ1) [02:44] yeah [02:44] only one improvement per tile (including forts!) [02:44] jaybe, yes, it's either a cottage or a farm, or a workshop [02:44] LOL. Too funny. Thanks, Soren. [02:44] wow [02:44] Soren/Betas: What is your favorite Wonder to build? [02:45] roads are in improbment? [02:45] Hmm, so mountains are natural barriers? [02:45] * tankster has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:45] What does a fort do? [02:45] chaos, yes [02:45] Do forts do anything besides grant a defense bonus? [02:45] Wow, so you can't even work mountains for shields anymore? [02:45] monk, hmm, good one... [02:45] Jon: In the screenshots I've seen, towns go around roads. [02:45] atma, no [02:45] I had a question that never fully got answered, can I have to Americas in one game, one led my Washington one by FDR? [02:45] The buildings are positioned around intersections and roads and stuff. [02:45] fin, no [02:45] I've gone through it a bit... there are a million good ideas there, but we only get to make one version of Civ. The sum should be more than the parts, if you know what I mean. [02:45] Oh yeah, is zone of control in? And if it is, is it just a chance when the unit has the ability, or a guaranteed hit? [02:45] I think I'll escape in here.. much quieter than CFC right now. ;) [02:45] Floodgates just opened [02:45] Donation made, alva. And my whatever deity or deities who have ever existed strike me down if ever I doubt Firaxis again. [02:45] lol [02:45] what's the IRC for CFC? [02:46] 150+ hardcore civvers. [02:46] irc.irc-chat.net -- #civfanatics [02:46] Monkspider, there are a few really good ones... [02:46] * Woog has joined #apolyton [02:46] And serious IRC'ing Civers go CivIRC. ;) [02:46] I thought mountains were more interesting as dead terrain. There is a lot more variance in terrain in Civ4. Deserts give NOTHING. Mountains are impassible. [02:46] Soren: what about the mobile version of Civ IV? The next mobile phone I am buying has a 640x480 screen, 512 Mhz processor and a lot of RAM. Are you otusourcing to some company to make Civ IV mobile? [02:46] I think it is potentially a big market. [02:46] my fav wonder is probably Hanging Gardens, gives free growth, I'm a sucker for growth (and GP). There are a couple of other really nice ones though [02:46] cool.. [02:46] Soren: Precisely. From what I've seen, you kept the 1/3rd, 1/3rd, 1/3rd, idea very clear in your mind, and I think that speaks highly of your ability. [02:46] Chieftess, I spent most of the day in here and in civfanatics........it was kinda hard to concentrate on work today for some reason....... =) [02:47] (have you at FIRAXIS thought about making anything fo rthe PSP?) [02:47] Lots of 'dead' terrain sounds good. Different though. Will take some getting used to. Reminds me a bit of Rhye's of Civlization [02:47] Guy: :b [02:47] * Sn00py has joined #apolyton [02:47] Are there still worthwhile resources in deserts? [02:47] Ice is impassible for water (except for subs) [02:47] What did I miss [02:47] I have a different favorite wonder just about every game. [02:47] By the way, was CivAnon an in-house idea? [02:48] chaos: yes! which means crappy city but good resource [02:48] Subs can go under ice? O_O [02:48] well, the big guns are arriving :)) [02:48] is Ice passable by infantry? [02:48] Hi snoopy :) [02:48] Niiice! [02:48] G'day! [02:48] Rhye's of Civ has been the model for my mods for years [02:48] I always edited Civ3 so you couldn't settle in deserts and jungles, only build colonies... I found it a much more enjoyable experience after that. [02:48] aeson: if you have to choose! :) [02:48] chaos, yes, still resources in desert. and floodplains, very useful too [02:48] Am I late or early? [02:48] mine: statue of liberty [02:48] I have no loyalties...whatever would fit the current situation best. ;) [02:49] late, you are always too late ;) [02:49] bugger [02:49] meh, cmon Aeson commit!!! dammit!! ;) [02:49] Good stuff. [02:49] Civ4 is about adapting to your environment. You shouldn't choose a tech path til after some exploration... [02:49] sn00py, you're rather late, but Soren's still here, plenty of life left in this one ;) [02:49] * Alva is just looking for a pointer from the lord ;) [02:50] * VladAntlerkovWFR has left #apolyton [02:50] Thanks for the answers guys [02:50] And how much was the little girl actor paid to cry like that? Breaks my heart every time. [02:50] * VetLegion wonders about mobile phones, PDA's and PSP.. could we get some info on that? [02:50] that would be the pointer of course :) [02:50] Does anybody here have the game yet? [02:50] pffff :p [02:50] SnOOpy: No. [02:50] no :(\ [02:50] A version that starts with 1 [02:50] no [02:50] lol [02:50] noone [02:50] That actually reminds me... I feel stupid for not knowing this, but are colonies still in? I thought it was a neat idea in Civ3, but just wasn't implimented very well given the lack of restrictions on city site... [02:51] not even Soren :eek: [02:51] but just for you Alva, I like the Oracle best in my last game [02:51] same answer though, no :( [02:51] liked [02:51] no colonies [02:51] What 'culture groups' do we get to pick from as templates for the throne room? [02:51] the oracle?? [02:51] My issue with CivAnon is that it never changes. It woulc be so much better if there were real blogs (or even make it REAL)! [02:51] Yeah, Soren is going to wait outside BestBuy. [02:51] Soren, How easy is it to change paths when encountering a new situation...? I know Micromanagement is down, but more on the strategic point of view... [02:51] lol @ Yin [02:52] Did i read that Forests and jungles can self-propagate to adjacent tiles before? [02:52] Somebody has sabotaged the cargo planes and ships, and they're selling them on the street; I better go check during Lunch time [02:52] * Alva loves to see a "Cold so cold" for Civ4 :cute: [02:52] I missed it did someone answer the Washington vs FDR thing? [02:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [02:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [02:52] what washington vs FDR thing? [02:52] Back again. [02:52] you can change paths every turn if you like (and your old research is always saved) [02:52] yes, Wise_ass, it was answered and it's not possible [02:53] ahh thanks [02:53] yes, forest can self-propagate, but it's fairly rare [02:53] Soren, lets talk about that SDK. ;) [02:53] not only forest.. [02:53] sweeeet (fond memories of SMAC) [02:53] Washington vs FDR is where there are 2 civs of the same "country" but with different leaders. [02:53] * danmd has joined #apolyton [02:53] Oh yeah, what about railroads? Are they infinite movement still? [02:53] I think it's possible to play with FDR, FDR, FDR, and Washington...or any combination you want (it's confusing though) [02:53] wow im listening to Sid Meir on the radio [02:54] forests grow more frequ3ently in tiles without improvements or roads... [02:54] Would it be possible, say, if you wrote a script to cause it in the situation of a civil war? [02:54] FDR means what? [02:54] what would be cool would be if a civ splits (ie Civil War) and say Washington lead one part and FDR the other....... =) [02:54] FDR is the leader [02:54] and tiles surrounded by more forests (kind of like the Life game) [02:54] Franklin D. Roosevelt [02:54] on a Rebroadcast of WAMUs Kojo Nambe show [02:54] yeah [02:54] er, well, sort of... [02:54] ooohh [02:54] that was one thing I definitely noticed between Civ 3 and 4 [02:54] Sid is cool as hell [02:54] you'll see when the SDK is released! [02:54] I played a game of 3 recently and there are almost NO trees [02:54] SnOOpy raises an interesting question: What's the most you would pay for Civ 4? I think at $150 I'd have to worry a bit, though even $200 might still be on the table. [02:54] oh man i like the way you guys think :) [02:54] wiseass, I'm pretty sure you can have 2 leaders of the same country if you deliberately set it up like that, not in a random game though [02:54] Soren: I thought forst couldn't grow on improved tiles. [02:54] * VetLegion wonders if he typed the Mobile Civ IV question in the right window [02:55] The SDK will grant us the ability to colonize Mars, it will slice through countless vegetables without becoming dull, it will... [02:55] Vet: Yis, and basically, I can say it probably won't happen. (; [02:55] danmd: Meier was interviewed? [02:55] I'm not a dev, but that's just an educated guess on my part. [02:55] yeah [02:55] today [02:55] they rebroadcast it [02:55] OK, I just like to ask ;) [02:55] he is on now [02:55] meh, who cares 'bout Sid!!! He didn't create Civ4 ;) [02:55] Vet: any unannounced or unknown projects will have to remain so, sorry ;) [02:55] well, we have high hopes for what you can do with the SDK. I have no doubt the AI will reach new heights, but I hope to see some radical mods too. You'll get the power you want... you'll just have to use it wisely! [02:56] 88.5 fm [02:56] @ Chaos: Yes, the SDK has been reported to even do Calculus homework! [02:56] from DC [02:56] nice [02:56] chaos [02:56] Soren, do you have any power in removing pirated copies of Civ4 on torrent sites? [02:56] don't do that [02:56] @Soren: What kind of mod would YOU like to see the community create? [02:56] is it up already? uff da [02:56] With great power, comes great...power. [02:56] hope so :D [02:56] Use the SDK wisely. [02:56] Publisher will probably handle anti-piracy efforts. [02:56] I heard the secret of the universe is in the sdk [02:57] when do we get it again? the SDK? [02:57] I don't know if its up [02:57] What were some of your favorite Civ3 mods, and did you incorporate any ideas from them into Civ4? [02:57] alva: I don't know. That's the exciting part. Surprise me... [02:57] Is THIS the snoopy that did the graphical updates for Civ3? [02:57] I haven't seen a real pirate copy anywhere, though I'm not the expert on it [02:57] SDK: planned for January [02:57] Soren wants an AoK mod ;) [02:57] danmd: I've found the interview (electronic copy) -- thanks for the reference/heads-up. [02:57] Torrent sites aren't illegal in terms of Civ IV. :) They don't provide the files, they just provide data about the torrent. [02:57] I haven't seen jack and I'm sorely tempted whilst I await my copy to be shipped in [02:57] Or an HoMM mod! [02:57] meh Soren, too easy :p [02:57] he said that this will be his Last Game for the PC! [02:57] Give them a challenge ;) [02:58] Rhye's mod was very interesting. DyP was good, certainly, it showed off how far the engine could be pushed. (a little too much "stuff" for my tastes, of course, but it's great that it was there for people) [02:58] it is my pleasure DanQ [02:58] I want a Lords of the Realm II mod. [02:58] heh [02:58] i want a World of Warcraft mod [02:58] Soren: Did you every try the Ages of Man? [02:58] Bah @ WoW [02:58] im kidding [02:58] So in layman's terms Firaxis or Take 2 can't take down a torrent tracker, because it doesn't violate any legislation. However seeding or downloading the actual torrent is a different story. [02:58] Lords of the Realm II was great [02:58] ahhh got to go tata [02:58] cya W_A [02:58] i want that Might and Magic game [02:58] yin: yeah, during all my spare time. :) [02:58] 'nigh wa [02:58] Bye Wise_Ass. [02:59] LOL! [02:59] AoM has only been out for a few months. yeah, I'm sure Soren's been playing nothing else, it's not like he had anything else to do ;) [02:59] or no not that [02:59] lol [02:59] Master of Magic [02:59] night thanks for the info ;) [02:59] Heh, surpised someone else remembers it. It seems to have been under-appreciated. [02:59] * Wise_Ass has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [02:59] For some reason I feel like I'm chatting here, but on the other hand not. [02:59] ahhh, Lords of the Realm II [02:59] one of my favorite games [02:59] AoM looks interesting though. I, of course, hope they will pour their efforts into a Civ4 mod. It'll certainly provide them a big audience. [02:59] Locutus, have you kept up to date with CTP lately? [03:00] Agreed. [03:00] I've lurked [03:00] I want to see a SMAC Mod, MoM mod, and a MoO mod eventually........ =) [03:00] ok, got the message :D [03:00] Don't forget Warhammer mod. [03:00] How about Fracas? ;) [03:00] Soren: Can you outline the basics of what the SDK will allow for? [03:00] I don't think stan will be able to bring it up to convert his mod to civ4, it cost him 2+ years to make the ctp2 version. pity though, it would indeed be a great addition to the game [03:00] i want a American Idol Mod [03:00] Heh, Tau here I come. Well, that's Warhammer40k, but still. [03:01] what did he actually do the mod with? [03:01] I hear he made the AI a lot better [03:01] We should make sure Stan gets this bit of the transcript. [03:01] did he use the C code? [03:01] no, the amazing thing is that's all TXT and SLIC [03:01] Soren: more about possibilities in the game. Is One City Challenge actually feasible on any difficulty level? [03:01] he's currently working on a C++ update as well, or rather people are doing it for him as he's not much of a programmer [03:02] Souds like a waste of time to me... :( [03:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [03:02] SLIC? [03:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [03:02] * luxnan has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [03:02] mmmmmm [03:02] OCC in Deity [03:02] Soren/Betas: What are your favorite civ traits? [03:02] not recommende3d ;) [03:02] yeah, probably is, but for his own sanity he wants to finish it [03:02] * LoneWolf5050 has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [03:02] slic = ctp version of python [03:02] * harrieruk has joined #apolyton [03:02] Trip, I guessed so =) [03:02] @monk: you're not going to get one answer [03:02] * danmd has quit IRC (Quit: ) [03:02] At Settler level, what does the A.I do with itself? [03:02] sn00py: the SDK will simply be all the game and AI code, which can be compiled into a separate dll to replace the default one. [03:03] He added some interesting scripted events (Dark Ages, for example) that made a kind of game within a game. Then he did a lot of work on what triggers the AI's ire, how the AI responds, etc. He's currently trying to get the AI to launch real naval assaults. [03:03] * Atma blinks as she sees another acronym she doesn't quite catch... what's CTP mean in this context? [03:03] Call to power [03:03] ahh I see, nice one [03:03] by game code he means all of the logic of the game [03:03] Aaaah. [03:03] So these new barbarians, can they beg/borrow/steal techs and generally act like a real civ once they get their mitts on a city? [03:03] Everybody should try it! You won't mind sparing Civ 4 time, will you? [03:03] good party guys [03:04] @monk: I like to ba able to switch civics on the fly for examle [03:04] Stan even asked for my help again, I've had to turn him down this time, with pain in my heart. Civ4's been too much work and will continue to be so for some time to come [03:04] At what level(s) is there no production/growth/military/etc. penalty or bonus to either humans or the AI? (short version--at what level(s) is the game "fair") [03:04] soren, thnx for the hard work :) [03:04] indeed! [03:04] Noble is the even level [03:04] * birubiru has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:04] A problem I had with Stan's Dark Ages is that it happened at a turn #, not at a tech. (And I didn't ICS nearly enough) [03:04] last time I checked ;) [03:04] @ Locutus: Recruit him for Civ 4! [03:05] I've tried. Like I said, he can't bring himself to have to start all over again [03:05] @YIN: that's why I said "a waste of time" ;) [03:05] I see. [03:05] That's understandable [03:05] maybe in a year or so, when he's gotten some time off... [03:05] Guy, the middle diff level is even [03:06] Well, g'night all. Curses to anybody already playing Civ. [03:06] bye. box eater [03:06] What is the bonus/penalty on the easiest and hardest levels? [03:06] cya [03:06] right back at ya :p [03:06] and g'night [03:06] Thanks again to Soren and the whole team. [03:06] g'night yin [03:06] Only Civ I'll play tonight is C3C [03:06] thanks [03:06] Once you finish a great project, one needs some time off :cute: ;) [03:06] * Yin has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:06] Consult a gastroenterologist after your meal [03:07] Do you all live in far flung places or is the game shipment late? [03:07] I'm going to see if my lizards can conquer the galaxy in MoO3. [03:07] Not going so well right now. [03:07] Night Yin. [03:07] Soren: any plans for the holidays? :D [03:07] shipment is late, but most of us also live in faar flung places :) [03:07] Its shipping today, so most places will have it tommorow. [03:07] zomg [03:07] Its the 26th here! [03:07] * luxnan has joined #apolyton [03:08] snoopy your the one who made the graphics pack [03:08] Snoops: it isn't in Europe yet, not sure if that fits your description or nat ;) [03:08] They successfully dodged getting Civ4 to us in the half-term holiday [03:08] some shops claim 28th here, but I'll believe it when I see it [03:08] ahh yes... [03:08] * prscormier has joined #apolyton [03:08] * VJ has left #apolyton (Erm) [03:08] fireforge: I think so! [03:08] yea [03:08] the question is "where is it shipping from?" [03:08] Sn00py - Got some good graphics in store for us? :) [03:08] good work your on my computer [03:08] * Atma lives in a pure college town in southwest virginia, so maybe she'll see it tomorrow [03:08] Only in my head Chieftess [03:08] virginia there pretty backwards there [03:08] Oh pfff [03:08] =P [03:09] Sn00p will have something in a few weeks [03:09] Trying to pull it out is the hard part [03:09] Soren, do you feel that game could be broken down by concentrated analysis by a professional mathemathicians? For example, discovering that it is simply more optimal to always play in one way? [03:09] fireforge112: Not this part, I'm near Virginia Tech [03:09] Snoopy went on record saying he liked the C4 grapichs!! Says quite a lot doesn't it ;) [03:09] HAHAHAHA, not in this world sabre [03:09] * DanS has joined #apolyton [03:09] :) [03:09] yes I did, Civ4 graphics are good [03:09] * ulyanov has joined #apolyton [03:09] Atleast you're the real sn00py, and not the snoopy### imposter. :) [03:09] Never before have I seen such a hive of villany [03:09] Vet: I hope not! That's always my fear as a designer... [03:09] I like the Civ4 graphics too, but I'll never discount the creativity of the Civ community [03:09] Why aren't you working for Firaxis yet btw?? ;) [03:10] there's an imposter!? [03:10] lol @ Chieftess [03:10] ahhh [03:10] How easy would it be to add a mantinence cost for roads? Say 1 gold a turn for every 5 tiles of road? Would we need the SDK? Would it break the AI? [03:10] Someone was in here with the nick snoopy the other day [03:10] I drove threw west virgina before alva [03:10] Good to see you too, Dan [03:10] * Backpack REturns from Dinner and NCIS [03:10] fin, easy [03:10] West VA is scary. [03:10] Alva, I am too espensive to hire [03:10] southwestern actual Virginia isn't so bad. [03:10] Welcome Dan [03:10] WVa is God's country [03:10] CT, he's real. [03:10] AI impact would have to be tested though [03:10] fintilgin... you could probablly do that via python, bvut definitely with the SDK [03:10] one of the scariest journys of my life [03:10] hehe [03:10] * Backpack DOes the Happy Dance - EBGames called about 20 minutes ago - Civ IV Arriving at Store tomorrow! [03:10] Hi, DanS, ulyanov. [03:11] Hi All [03:11] Very cool. I'd like to see roads much more of a strategy and less spammed around. AI is what worries me. [03:11] Also hello to luxman, prscormier. [03:11] The DanS??? [03:11] From the OT??? [03:11] There are others? [03:11] ha! [03:11] ;) [03:11] I could probably code in in 10 mins in Python, but as I said, AI impact would have to be tested [03:11] Harrieruk too. [03:11] I can type now? [03:11] hi, dan. [03:11] Nooo, there's only one ;) [03:11] well, the roads don't give bonuses, and workers are expensive, so it's not quite so simple anymore [03:11] You've should have been able to type since you arrived, luxnan. [03:12] you can override the AI in Python [03:12] bit tricky though [03:12] You should have... rather. [03:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [03:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [03:12] I should be working [03:12] ahh who cares [03:12] Sorry, the unregistered spam fooled me. I'm better at lurking anyhow. This has been a fun read. [03:12] OK, Question for Soren: What was the thoughest thing to do in Civ4? [03:12] tougest [03:12] be it modeling, programming, balancing [03:12] to program? [03:12] :p [03:12] lolol [03:12] getting Sirian to shut up ;) [03:12] It was probably spelling "toughest", I wager. [03:13] balancing the civics was the hardest... [03:13] yep [03:13] Can enemies use your roads though? If your workers have spare time, why not road it all up like earlier ones? [03:13] you bothered? [03:13] How does the AI decide what units to build in Civ4? Does it build balanced amounts of the various types or does it just go off strength? [03:13] * FIRAXIS_Trip nods at Loc [03:13] I'm not of your language, so I'm allowed to make mistakes :p [03:13] locutus: the two were not mutually exclusive! [03:13] Anybody tried multiplayer yet? [03:13] Only because you're already on my good side. ;) [03:13] Soren the only way to balance all civics is surely to make em bland [03:13] lol [03:13] chaos, it weighs the strength with the purpose as well as a small factor to ensure a good variety of units [03:14] Ah, good. [03:14] @Dans, yes, and it does work ;) [03:14] Excellent. :b: [03:15] kitten, the trick was to give several civics equally attractive boni. which is best is situational, and changes with progress in game [03:15] kitten: well, that was why it was so hard. I don't think they're bland... some are quite different (unlimited specialists, pop-rushing, missionaries w/o monasteries, etc.) [03:15] There's not republican civic though, Dans...saorry :p ;) [03:15] * Woog has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:15] It'll be interesting to see if there are civics that are particularly good [03:15] there is slavery ;) [03:15] lol [03:15] rolf [03:15] true that [03:15] Environmentalism :) [03:16] One more mod question. :) How easy would it be to have 'culture religions' so if England discovers polytheism they get 'Druidic' religion with icon, and if India discovers it it's 'Hindisum' etc.? [03:16] kitten, there are, depending on the situation [03:16] No republican civic? Does that mean we're all socialists now? [03:16] we wanted the civics to be more distinctive than in SMAC (which was mostly +2 this, -1 that...) [03:16] fin, it could be modded [03:16] dan: there is Representation... [03:16] Dans : YES :EVIL: hahahahaha!!!! [03:16] * Cookie has joined #apolyton [03:16] * ulyanov is now known as uylanov_afk [03:16] though with 18 civs and 7 religions, that would be a lot of work :eek: [03:16] afk [03:16] Free Market Vs Green was pretty distinctive [03:17] It could be worse, I guess. They could have made us all Uropean socialists!~ [03:17] they all are usefull at some time [03:17] In SMAC some SE combinations would be particullary interesting for some factions, like Morgan running Wealth or Hive running Police+Planned, is this also true of Civ4 civics? [03:17] Even though SMAC SE settings had simple numeric effects, results like having -5 Police were much different than 5 times the effect of -1 Police [03:17] some fit in the niche corner but even then can save you béhind ;) [03:17] Play Deidre, go Green, control Mind Worms, make entire planet their terrain = teh win [03:17] Well, I figured I'd have a lot of repeats. All Euro civs would get Catholicism instead of Judism, Orthodox instead of Christianity, Prodestantism instead of Islam. Etc. I'm drawing up ideas for a GodMOD! ;) [03:17] Thats what I always do Taliseian [03:18] dan, free market, free religion, emancipated, blah blah [03:18] =) [03:18] blake, yes [03:18] Human Vs Human I think Morgan is the best given just a little time [03:18] creative civ in pacifism [03:18] mega gpeople [03:18] Is winston churchill a great scientist? [03:18] and what were people smoking at the time? [03:18] mmm pacifism [03:18] uhm, no, what makes you think that? [03:18] do some of the civics conflict? Slavery and Free Religion could be a conflict from some angles [03:18] militaristic in several civics that add ep to new units [03:19] Hmm? Locutus was that to me...it was in a thread at civfanatics - as reliable as the CIA [03:19] snoopy, that's possible. kinda like the romans :) [03:19] :hmm: [03:19] NYE: it's baptised EX already ;) [03:19] snoopy, some would blunt others with other things you were trying to accomplich [03:19] sleep time is now [03:19] So, we have it for the record. Winston Churchill is NOT a great scientist [03:19] 'Til lata everyone [03:20] do great people added to a city last for the rest of the game? [03:20] cya [03:20] free s.... ok, nye. got it. ;) [03:20] baibai Trip [03:20] yes, that's about right, that reliability thing on CFC. some really weird theories floating around there... [03:20] later Trip ;) [03:20] kitten, where did you get that? [03:20] civfanatics [03:20] bye trip [03:20] that's as valuable as hitler being a german leader [03:20] * MIKE has joined #apolyton [03:20] G'night Trip... and Go Red Wings! ;) [03:20] CU, trip, thx for coming [03:20] a thread, I'd look but it is 2:20 am and my brain is addled by drink [03:20] booo! [03:20] hehe [03:20] IS THE GAME AWESOME OR WHAT? [03:20] it would be the toughest thing I could do [03:20] adios Apolytoners [03:21] no, it's go oilers! [03:21] no, Winston Churchill is to the best of my knowledge not in the game at all [03:21] I was at the Wings game last night... we look gooooood. :) [03:21] * Goog has joined #apolyton [03:21] I'll hold you to that Locutus [03:21] Night Trip. Thanks for being here1 [03:21] * FIRAXIS_Trip has left #apolyton [03:21] The real question for this game is... Is it Xin Yu-worthy? [03:21] are IRC rooms still popular these days? I remember 5 years ago they were very popular, and I was on them a lot [03:21] * Cookie has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:21] Today, this IRC room is Sn00py. :) [03:21] * MIKE has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:21] Montgommery is the leader of the British in the WWII scenario though, I don't suppose that's causing any confusion? [03:21] yeah, the AC SE added up to have big effects, but the effect of the Civics is more direct in Civ4. There wasn't a secondary step. [03:22] * Grevlek has joined #apolyton [03:22] I don't dare to enter IRC rooms because no body talks [03:22] Are you the real sn00py? [03:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [03:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [03:22] I think so [03:22] lol [03:22] * Backpack pokes Sn00py [03:22] The one that made the wonderful graphics packs? [03:22] It looks like a Sn00py [03:22] do great people added to a city last for the rest of the game? [03:22] Do I smell like Sn00py? [03:22] yes [03:22] yea [03:22] Direct from your Sopwith Camel? [03:22] * Backpack did not sniff Sn00py [03:22] Do Civ 4 Civics exhibit synergy, such as the effects of Demo and Planned together in SMAC? [03:22] Don't think it was that Locutus, just the fact that anyone with a computer can post at civfanatics being the problem [03:23] so snoopy what do you do for a living [03:23] tacit, yes [03:23] yes, adding Great People stay until the city is captured... [03:23] Sorry to sound like a stupid fanboy, but your work is fantastic... you've increased my Civ 3'ing tenfold. [03:23] I'm a graphic designer, Im at work right now, not doing any work [03:23] Ten whole fold, and I say, thanks good sir. [03:23] koc, lol, you're probably right [03:23] nice snoopy [03:23] * MeaCulpa has quit IRC (Quit: Azureus 2.3.0.4) [03:23] sweet, another tick *drools* [03:23] yes, there is a lot of Civics synergy. Rep and Caste System. UniSuff and Free Speech. Police State and Vassalage. Just a couple examples... [03:23] I've been doing this since I was 10, and modding Civ since Civ2 [03:23] * Noctarr has joined #apolyton [03:24] I'm 26 now :) [03:24] Your workplace hasn't banned ACS yes, Sn00py? You must count yourself blessed. :D [03:24] I run the computers here too :) [03:24] I refuse to work for companies that ban Apolyton :) [03:24] I think the question to Sn00py is whehter he's the snoopycool Sn00py? [03:24] Ahhhhhhh... inside track. ;) [03:24] I'm a Graphic Designer/ Project Executive / IT guy / Web Designer [03:24] Fight the power, Locutus! ;) [03:25] just one damn minute admiral [03:25] Yeah, I'm a rebel without a clue! [03:25] Aren't we all ;) [03:25] Can anyone speak to the in-box manual (perhaps with comparisons to the Brady game Strat Guide)? [03:25] ;D [03:25] Backpack, save money, read Apolyton ;) [03:26] I will not be surprised if Singapore has Civ4 somewhere, I'm gonna go check at Lunch time [03:26] Soren, do you see yourself working on Civ V, or was this just about enough? :D [03:26] What Brady Games Strat Guide? Why isn't available already -- like before the game appears! [03:26] * sabre2th has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer) [03:26] .. but buy the game. oops [03:26] Soren - what is your biggest regret at the moment concerning the whole Civ 4 project [03:26] apart from demanding a higher fee [03:26] * much higher fee * $$$$$ ;) [03:26] I liked the Civ2 manual. Worth reading and rereading, as I recall... [03:26] backpack, they should both be good, but I haven't read most of the manual and none of us have seen the strat guide. but the strat guide is written by one of the best civ players ever, so it should be good [03:26] Oh I'm gonna be reading 'Poly - I'm just also a sucker for the printed page [03:27] "One of the best Civ Players Ever"?????? [03:27] Eyes Of Night? [03:27] Backpack, find the one that Freid contributed to. [03:27] Man, I haven't even read poly today :o :D [03:27] I'm not sure which one that is [03:27] DanS, the Civ2 book was good, but I lost it :( [03:27] * shmigheghi has joined #apolyton [03:27] Fried [03:27] * prscormier has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:27] The best Civ player is Xin Yu [03:27] Fact [03:27] I threw it away a couple of years ago [03:27] lol re: Eyesofnight [03:27] I wonder if Civ4 is the one to end all Civs [03:27] I bet Shmigheghi could beat him, he's a legend. [03:27] * harrieruk has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:27] The best C3 mp'er is FP. FACT [03:28] @Snoopy: there's always more and better [03:28] and i would say c4 [03:28] I also wonder if Civ4 will make us all game-makers in 6-12 months time :) [03:28] i play on regent, i'm gods gift to civ [03:28] he ain't shoddy at SP neither is Fried - hate to say it [03:28] I';; take a look at the credits page before I pay [03:28] Oh yeah, Fried, who is this guy? Why is he so good? (From what I have heard) [03:28] * asleepathewheel has joined #apolyton [03:28] * javauser110 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:28] uh-oh [03:28] He one time ate the entire thing. [03:28] he's a pinball wizard [03:28] wooot!!! Sleepy!!! [03:28] g'evening asleep [03:28] lol [03:28] Hody [03:28] I have HIGH HIGH hopes that Civ IV will be the last game engine I need for entertainment for the next many years [03:28] * Grevlek has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:29] hi, sleepy! [03:29] * Grevlek has joined #apolyton [03:29] we really needed a lawyer... [03:29] uh oh what? I knew it, the ship carring Civ4 sank, didn't it? [03:29] lol [03:29] nye, I'm a little bitter over Civ 3 (I'm a forgiving fan, though). Don't know the multiplayers there. [03:29] I personally think C3 got a lot of bad rap [03:29] it wasn't bad game at all [03:29] 01I personally think C3 was the best game ever after conquests came out. [03:30] hmm [03:30] People ecpectations were perhaps a little too high imo [03:30] Far too repetitive [03:30] * Monkspider has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:30] C3 was great - I just felt shafted on having to buy the upgrades just for the unit management buttons/options [03:30] fried is one of the leaders of the c3 ladder site. he was... heavily involved in beta of c4. if you buy a strat guide, look for the one he contributed to [03:30] civ3 was crap, there's no turning about it... [03:30] without the civ2 blessing of being piss eay [03:30] easy [03:30] No offense to Firaxis, but when I bought the game, it wasn't a fun game of the type I expected from Firaxis. [03:30] I've said it before, but I'll say it again, Civ4::Civ3 as Civ2::Civ1. We got to Civ4 via Civ3... [03:30] I liked Civ3 myself, thought it was way ahead of Civ2. [03:30] @BackPack: point me to something that is cheaper than Civ [03:31] The main thing was the AI actually putting up a fight. [03:31] really, I mean it, even with X-packs [03:31] I'd like to think we got to civ4 via ctp and smac, and maybe a slight touch of civ3 :) [03:31] So, it was more evolution than intelligent design? [03:31] 01SMAC was Whack. [03:31] I played Civ 2 for many hundreds of hours. I expect the same from Civ 4. [03:31] Civ 3 just wasn't what it could have been. It lost the one-more-turn feeling that Civ2 and SMAC did. It didn't reward the player enough. [03:31] Yeah, Civ3 was solid. Not exceptionally great, but still fun. [03:31] people wants too much from their 50$ when it comes to a PC game [03:31] Alva - Bridge/Cutthroat Spades -(chuckle) [03:31] :p [03:32] Alva, we would pay more if we could :p [03:32] Civ3 missed a lot of atmospheric elements which, when missing, is very important. [03:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [03:32] I mean in the real world...go see a movie with the girlfriend..enough said [03:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [03:32] Alva, it's 3:30 in Belgium, no? Since you are here, I'd say it's not just agame for you either ;) [03:32] even IF it's a good movie [03:32] holidays [03:32] but I would have bought the X-packs anyway...it was the feeling i was paying for basic features when I should have felt like I was paying for more 'Stuff' [03:32] its 9:30 were alva is [03:32] civ3 was a matter of taste. i thought it was better than ctp2 or c2, but ymmv [03:32] GIrlfriend [03:32] what does alva know about having a girlfriend, anyway [03:32] yes, lack of atmosphere was one major problem, but by no means the only one [03:32] Exactly. From a strategic perspective, it was a step forward in many respects, especially resources. But it lost what I call "the flavor." [03:32] Errr 3.30 at the moment here [03:32] I played Age of Empires 3 lastnight on Hard, I expected the enemy to build massive armies that I couldn't defend myself from (I mean thats the point of sending an army right?) But no, he sends 1 cannon, 5 horses and 10 men, thats the biggest it gets) I hope Civ4 is different.. [03:32] people who place civ DO not have girlfriends [03:33] @ Sleepy: :( :( :( that hurt ;) [03:33] Heck I have a wife.... and 'Kitchen Pass' for the next 5 days [03:33] Mostly I found Civ3 needed to much micromanagement of zillions of units and felt a bit 'clunky' interface wise. [03:33] I have a girlfriend, she lets me play for about 3 hours a day :) [03:33] yes, apparently my mileage varied, in the manner of an 18-wheeler versus a Prius [03:33] I have a girlfriend whenever my wallet allows :D [03:33] haha [03:33] wife in grad school= lots of free time for me ;) [03:33] Hey, let's not talk about Civ III now. Let's talk about Civ IV more! :) [03:34] too much history here, VL. [03:34] Cmon Sleepy; there's always another client out there [03:34] :p [03:34] Grad School - Speaking of Grad School - I would like to thank the Civ IV development team for delaying the release of Cov IV until I could COMPLETE my Masters degree - [03:34] fint, yes, but c2 had caravans, ctp2 had... not everyone was happy, but many were [03:34] Civ3 was a little different for the series because SMAC had been moving in the direction of very high complexity with a limited ability for the AI to use it. Civ3 went the other way, probably too much. Civ4 is somewhere in the middle. [03:34] DanS, I've played since Civ 1, so I understand the story, the actors, the setting and all that ;) [03:34] err Civ IV [03:34] Aaaaaargh, please !!! don't mention caravans!!! uck [03:34] The middle. :b: [03:34] Spot on Soren [03:35] This chat has soon been going for 6 hours. :) [03:35] Yeah, Soren has it right there. [03:35] Shhhhh! [03:35] Don't remind them [03:35] though conquests, the A.I could use very little of what was added [03:35] I liked the concepts of caravans. [03:35] Soren, I'm just curious, as AI in games improved over the past years? Does AI programming progress at all? [03:35] so when can we expect an expansion for civ4??? [03:35] and I really hope artillery has been addressed [03:35] as = does [03:35] 01Is anyone watching Mad Money right now? [03:35] re: ai use [03:35] HAS not does [03:35] dans, i found them worse than workers in c3 [03:35] IM watching baseball [03:35] Somehow Dans, I'm not surprised. :p ;) [03:35] FPS AI seems stuck at the UT level. [03:35] caravans were, after civ1 combat, probably the worst concept in the civ franchise [03:35] Accurate and fast, but not much beyond that. [03:36] I didn't mind the workers either, meh... [03:36] @ NYE: exactly, much morse [03:36] How does artillery work in Civ4 - from the sound of it it is vital/really good at city capture does the a.i put that into practice re: large stacks of well protect artillery like humans will surely use? [03:36] Yes yes - Please speak of Fire from above [03:36] sn00py: unfortunately not. If the Civ4 AI is better, it's actually more a reflection of my experience, not better processing. Improving AI comes via repetitions. Most of the clock cycles are wasted if you don't know what you're doing. [03:36] Snoopy, I think the answer is closer to no than to yes. There are new tricks they program into them, but they are still not making them adaptable, let alone smart. My opinion. [03:36] Civ3 was a cake walk for so many humans due to the artilllery unit bombadr [03:37] kitten, yes the ai will use arty the way it is intended [03:37] Good question koc - AI ignored arty for the most part in Civ3 [03:37] Thanks for all the information, FiraxisFolks. And thanks for ruining, yet again, what I ironically call my social life. [03:37] arty are just like regular unit except when the attack, they can hit multiple units. but you can lose them during the combat. [03:37] are they capturable? [03:37] * MaXXXXXuM422 has joined #apolyton [03:37] social life? is that a future tech? :X [03:37] Are ANY unit capturable? [03:37] Soren: once you have some time ;) would you be willing to do a paper on AI. I would really love to read it. [03:37] I've got work to do, good night everyone, and thanks again Alva. [03:37] and they can bombard city defenses as well, but only the defense bonus is reduced, not the health of the units [03:38] no, they are like regular units, so they would defend if attacked [03:38] guy, get the LL a copy of c4 ;) [03:38] cya Guy! [03:38] Yes, thats the impression I am getting. Seems to me, graphics improve, but AI programming only improves depending on the Programmers, but thats an unstable way for AI to progress. [03:38] She's already asking to play. :love: [03:38] so that is how you got around that problem :) [03:38] Hey guy, g'night man [03:38] workers/settlers are capturatble [03:38] only workers and settlers are capturable [03:38] * Grevlek has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:38] any info on sea/air units yet? [03:38] :love: indeed [03:38] I knew Soren was the right guy for Civ AI when I saw that little strategy game on his home page :D [03:38] You're a great sport :b :b :b [03:38] Libertarian and Civer? Marry that woman! [03:39] looks like a lizard [03:39] And I'll get you back eventually, Alva. And you too, NYE, in the hockey league. Have fun folks. [03:39] I guess the programming world needs to find a new way to improve on itself [03:39] * Guynemer has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:39] * MaXXXXXuM422 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:39] My solution for Civ3 Artillery was to mod them out. Create uber-attack-strength (and uber-expensive) units that simulated an army with logistical/artillery support [03:39] 'night [03:39] sort of... no-risk attack unit = design dead end for the AI [03:39] that was one area I had to accept AI limitations [03:39] * MaXXXXXuM has quit IRC (Quit: ) [03:40] especially if the ai built them, it was only helping the human with shields, exentually [03:40] Soren - What was the area of the AI, you most wanted to further improve on, but couldn't figure out an improvement (i.e. hit a brick wall)? [03:40] hmm, ok, what did you learn going from C3 to C4 when it comes to AI? :) [03:40] * Dravin has joined #Apolyton [03:41] re Civ3 Assault unit: I only doubled their attack strength, added cost of 4 comtemporary artillery units. [03:41] * FIRAXIS_ACS_Locutus is now known as Locutus [03:41] Locutus Lurks? [03:41] backpack: well, I guess artillery! [03:41] In C3, I never used any arty unit, when I captured one, I disbanded it (exept on deity) [03:41] no, I'm still here [03:41] What we really need is an AI that learns by watching humans play. Then you have a self-creating AI, that doens't stop getting better. Just like us :) (except it will be faster) [03:42] ok - 2nd most wanted to improve... hehe [03:42] Snoopy, it's just the huge amount of possibilities involved. Making AI truly smart in civ type TBS is impossible - what can be done is making it to appear smart. And this is where coincidence and player imagination jumps in. Civ 2 AI was fairly simple, yet if you read players' tirades about how it did genious moves, you know what I mean. [03:42] You know, I may have to install Civ 3 again to tied me over till the game arrives. [03:42] snoopy [03:42] * settler has joined #apolyton [03:42] then it takes over the world [03:42] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [03:42] like skynet from [03:42] terminator [03:42] Or the computer in Wargames. [03:42] Maybe if it watched somebdoy good, if it watched me enough it'd just get worse. : ) [03:42] sn00py: except that's not possible. as far as learning AI's go, it's a lot of talk ,, right now. [03:42] hehe I uninstalled Civ3 on Sunday in preparation [03:43] Why is it not possible? [03:43] he means now [03:43] * TauCeti has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:43] the problem with writing game AI is that the rules change as you develop the game. If all the rules were set for Civ4 when we began 2.5 years ago, we could have experimented with academic AI. But that could be a disaster if the gameplay changes significantly. [03:43] * BillyBoBob has joined #Apolyton [03:43] well, it's possible to an extent, but not such that it's feasible for a gaming budget/context [03:43] I've been reading way to more play reports of people playing on harder difficulty levels, and I just may play the game at higher difficulty levels now. [03:43] I know, I just want to know what the wall is [03:44] ok - There was a Science Fiction story - (novel Maybe?) where a main character played in a single world wide 'Civ' game... people would play a country for a year.. set it up real good, then go into cryosleep for a decade and retake control of thier 'country' - anyone know the book, title, author, etc? [03:44] So the trick is to complete the game, then build a learning AI for it? [03:44] Even in academy where rules don't change AI has been a real letdown so far. [03:44] Soren, some people really don't like the fact they can't nuke in their own lands - what is the rationale behind it as it removes a defensive option potentially. P.S can you nuke fleets? [03:45] basically what I was just writing... the trick with writing AI is usually not just seeing WHAT the AI did but WHY it did it. WIth learning AI, the whole point is the algorithm, not the outcome. It may produce the right results, but you won't know if it's for the right reason, which might mean it could break if things change. [03:45] * Konquest has quit IRC (Quit: Parti) [03:46] so the AI took the longest to work on? [03:46] How hard would it be to actually make a Learning AI for a game like Civ? [03:46] What's the space age look like? How does this story end? [03:46] better question, how much would it cost me per year to subscribe? [03:46] A learning AI is hard in any game [03:46] sn00py: compare it to chess. That's a game where you can use experimental AI, because you have ametric to measure it against (other AI). Game developers don't have that luxury. If I don't know why the AI is making it's decisions, I can't really evaluate it, wheras academic AI is aiming for a better generic algorithm [03:47] @NYE: that indeed is a very interesting concept... [03:47] * PsychoBilly has joined #apolyton [03:47] soren: I can't figure out why I do half the stuff in Civ aswell :) [03:47] kitten: could the US nuke it's own lands? would the soldiers actually fire the nuke if ordered? at any rate, it's a decision I understand some people disagree with. I'm sure some people will take it out... [03:47] A mimicking AI would be easier, but would still have some of the benefits - it would cheat just enough to know what the opponents are doing, and attempt to perform some similar actions. [03:47] lol @snoopy [03:48] So sid is thinking of a Civ MMORPG? [03:48] * Dravin reinstalles Civ 3 [03:48] I'm sure if the decision was to wipe out an invading force or lose New Orleans, then bye bye that Jackson bloke [03:48] I've already heard people talk about making a mod that lets you nuke your own spies, but not cities or troops [03:48] Read John Ringo - A Hymn Before Battle (and others) - Yes US troops could nuke thier own lands in the right situation [03:48] @kitten: it's A decision, some will like it, some won't... [03:48] Just don't flood the city, kitten. [03:49] MSNBC once had a news title that read, "NEW NEW ORLEANS" [03:49] It isn't a big deal to me, not when we don't have MAD implemented [03:49] * Backpack ponders Hmmmmm - A posleen invasion Mod [03:49] Heh, anyone watch Sliders? Alternate reality US nukes California to stop invading Japan in WW2. [03:49] NUKE your own spies?!? okay... [03:49] well, you can't nuke a city that has a spy in it [03:49] your own spy [03:49] hmm [03:49] You'd have to move the spy [03:49] well, you can always just delete or move the unit. It is a turn-based game! [03:49] we've got some real Gen. Jack D. Rippers here, I'd say [03:49] It is!!!!!!!!! [03:50] dammit!! [03:50] haha [03:50] Heh. [03:50] ;) [03:50] Private Ripper reporting for duty Sir! [03:50] I'd like to see a mod that lets you sneak in nukes into cities, like in civ2 [03:50] I should get back to work, cya all. [03:50] Feed me that ammo, the Redcoats are coming [03:50] hehe - That means a Tactical Nuke Mod Unit [03:50] See ya Sn00py. [03:50] no need, nukes have infinite range [03:50] cya snoop [03:50] Soren: Civilization: MMORPG ;) [03:51] No, he means a Spy planting nuke I believe. [03:51] I wonder how that would work... [03:51] Meh, civ2...really - and I LOVED that game - is too overrated [03:51] You'd probably want to make a specific 'Nuke Spy' unit that costs more. Then you have to smuggle that it, and if it get's caught by another spy... [03:51] yes, that's not needed because you can nuke any city from anywhere [03:51] Thousands of nations on an ultra large planet? [03:51] Letting any spy nuke is overpowerd. [03:51] You'd need multiple leaders.... [03:51] The idea is to do it in secret. [03:51] WAIT I should have said Civilization: MMO [03:51] G [03:52] bye [03:52] Don't forget the G - Without the G, it's just real life [03:52] MMOTBSG? [03:52] * Sn00py has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:52] that sounds like way too much [03:52] * quantum_mechani has joined #apolyton [03:52] * settler has joined #apolyton [03:52] * Goog has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [03:52] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [03:52] * Reaper1978 has joined #apolyton [03:52] Does the World map look anything like Earth this time around ;) [03:52] Hallo Quantum_Mechani, Reaper. [03:52] * Backpack lurks [03:52] Nah, more like Mars :p [03:53] Rhye made it, does that answer your question? ;) [03:53] hi [03:53] Questions have started repeating... I'm in this chat too long [03:53] oh my god [03:53] there are a couple earth maps (one at 18000 BC, one at 4000 BC and one at 1000 AD) designed by Rhye [03:53] Neat [03:53] The cold war with a land bridge! [03:53] 18000 BC huh [03:53] * Alva thinks Soren needs to learn to delegate ;) [03:53] what other maps made it into the final version Soren, or are those all? [03:54] well, six mods (3 Earth maps, Greek world, North Africa, American Revolution) and 18 (?) map scripts [03:54] * PsychoBilly has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:54] May I personally recommend 'Highlands' :)) [03:54] I mean premade maps. I think I saw an Africa and Europe maps in v90, or was that my imagination? [03:55] ah ha [03:55] Would it possible to do anything like a Colonization mod? Would it be alot of work? [03:55] I do have a question [03:55] the wrapping of maps [03:55] left right works [03:55] up done don't [03:55] ? [03:55] true [03:55] up down [03:55] up-down doesn't work in real world [03:55] Rhye earth maps, hooray :D *starts planning first game :o* [03:55] billy, you can if you want, and it would take as much time as you're willing to invest [03:55] but you're trying ;) [03:56] x and y wrapping are both optional [03:56] you can't go north from from canada and end up in argentina [03:56] donut maps are possible (haven't tried one though) [03:56] donut??? [03:56] x and y wrapping results in a 3d shape of a donut [03:56] "x & y wrapping are both optional" -- YESSS!! [03:56] I'm just being naughty, some of you weren't too careful who you c'ced [03:57] Do you get to keep all your unit promotions when you upgrade a unit? [03:57] Hmm, Aeson that's physics beyond me dude ;) [03:57] x, no-y = 'earth'; x, y = doughnut; no x, no y = flat; no x, y = neptune. all are possible for scenarios [03:57] I know that [03:57] yep [03:57] fantasy [03:57] ? [03:57] Er, Neptune? [03:57] I definitely like the concept that you CAN have NO x-y wrap [03:57] tacit, yes [03:57] sweet [03:57] Yeah, why -is- that called Neptune? [03:57] don't think Alva's had the pleasure of tasting krispy kreme [03:57] all civ games had a flat world option, I never liked them [03:58] Er, Locutus, yes and no!! [03:58] Earth would be x-wrapping, and y-jumping, from the top at one part of the world to the top halfway around the world [03:58] @dan: No, you lost me there :) [03:58] because neptune has it's poles wher earth has the equator, or something like that... [03:58] back [03:58] not much of an astronomer, but that's why they're called Neptune maps in ctp2, the only other game I know to have them [03:58] You keeps promotions but you can loose XP points [03:58] You're thinking of Uranus [03:58] * Reaper1978 has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [03:59] Oh, right! *smacks forehead* I forgot it spinns on it's side, basically [03:59] I think the easiest pole solution would be to have any unit moving off the north or south end of the map be able to move to any other square on that same edge, but limit it to air/missle units only. [03:59] oh, whatever, all those planets are the same to me ;) [03:59] Wonder if you can mod that easy... [03:59] hear hear!! [03:59] all planets are the same!!! [03:59] Or have a spherical map like X-Com! [04:00] locutus... not sure which real-world maps made it. [04:00] a map akin to the one in aftermath would be juicy [04:00] all donuts are the same!!! [04:00] not true [04:00] oh well, we'll find out soon enough :) [04:00] Aftermath had a beautiful map. Too bad it wasn't much of a game. [04:01] Koffiekoeken!! dammit!! [04:01] It was okay. Just not the right setting for the genre [04:01] Donuts...pfff..:p [04:02] * settler has joined #apolyton [04:02] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [04:02] NYE: still here? [04:02] aftermath? [04:02] I just wanna hear about spaceships. Any spaceships in this game? [04:03] the spaceship to alpha centauri is [04:03] no [04:03] ah [04:03] one of the victory conditions, again [04:03] * MaXXXXXuM has joined #apolyton [04:03] yuo [04:03] yeah, more or less the same as in civ2/3 [04:03] yup [04:03] can anyone give any info on air/sea units yet? [04:03] they're in :p [04:04] Yeah, air units fly, sea units float. :D [04:04] lol! [04:04] controversial I know [04:04] should of seen that one coming! [04:04] They do!!!! [04:04] are battleships in? [04:04] Soren IZ teh l34t!! [04:04] dude you need to go to www.civfanatics.com and look at the civ iv preview [04:04] In the modern era. :) [04:04] ;) [04:04] it has all that [04:04] no, instead we only have yellow submarines :cute: [04:04] Subs are way cool though!!! [04:04] I was always disappointed that Civ didn't have solar system exploitation [04:04] Privateers ain't in.. [04:04] hrmmm [04:05] nope [04:05] Well, Test of Time kind of did... [04:05] nor the Lunar mission [04:05] lets see [04:05] it is off to Alpha Centauri full steam ahead [04:05] Apollo Program is in, same as in other civ games [04:05] are naval units more useful then civ 3? [04:05] yes [04:05] awesome [04:05] man, cannot wait [04:05] Longer range, too. [04:05] movement that is [04:05] no suicide missions either [04:05] * fintilgin has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [04:05] Test of Time was great. [04:05] fantastic [04:06] here is a question, what part of the game are you most disapointed in? [04:06] Unless you count the AI caravel attacking my battleship. :D [04:06] ToT: vastly underrated. loved the multiple level maps [04:06] not sure if anyone can answer this, but can air units do precision bombing? [04:06] Yeah, the sci-fi/fantasy scenarios had alot of depth to them. [04:06] Q_M: as solver said: spies [04:06] There's plenty of bombing options now. [04:06] omg! [04:06] coool [04:06] * aeson has left #Apolyton [04:07] :( [04:07] the absense of PW :cute: [04:07] :p [04:07] I likes PW [04:07] yeah, I could see just from the prieview the spies looked useless [04:07] there are naval luxuries/resources now (whale, fish, oil) so they need to be protected/pillaged, which increases the importance of the navy [04:07] sea food! [04:07] hey soren, awesome [04:08] have you guys had any epic sea battles, etc? [04:08] Naval Ai in C4 be pretty good!!;) [04:08] You can also see what tiles the enemy is working, so you can walk on that tile and deny them of using it. :) [04:08] the WWII scenario allows for some neat naval warfare /shameless plug [04:08] (unless that was changed at the last minute...) [04:08] hehe cool [04:08] see y'all after I've had a chance to play this game some... [04:08] * jaask has joined #apolyton [04:08] See you Dans [04:08] cruise missles are out right? [04:08] bye, dan [04:08] Why Praetorians, why SEALs? - given both were a unit not many were supported and yet a UU is one you churn out. Who deserves a LONG holiday for that? [04:09] max, yes [04:09] Go earn some more money ;) [04:09] any other weapons for precision strikes now? [04:09] * DanS has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [04:09] air units [04:09] cooool [04:10] I've noticed that some screenshots APPEAR to have some cities take up multiple tiles. Is this the case, and if so how does it work? [04:10] no [04:10] it only appears that way [04:10] works the same way as before [04:10] very large cities will seem to spill over [04:10] * seem * [04:10] ok [04:10] and fall into the sea [04:10] would it be possible to mod towns to grow into cities? [04:11] Are base radii fixed at the 20 surrounding tiles as in previous civs? [04:11] the game feel more like civ2 or civ3 or neither? [04:11] that could get hectic if you have alot of towns by your cities already [04:11] Is their a limitation on the city base tile re: max food/improvements in C4 ala C3? [04:11] you could mod that if you want, I guess. want to be careful with it, but it's possible [04:11] chsthry, yes [04:11] I would say it feels more like a mix of Civ3 and SMAC [04:11] wow awesome [04:11] thats crazyt [04:11] neither [04:12] yeah, I really like the inclusion of SMAC style civic options [04:12] feels like a mix of civ1-3, smac and ctp to me [04:12] ok, gotta go. goodnight everyone... [04:12] goodnight Soren, thanks for coming! [04:12] ok later soren [04:12] * settler has joined #apolyton [04:12] cya Soren cheers [04:12] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [04:12] * Soren has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:13] lets see, what else can i ask [04:13] hmm, I'm impressed that the modding is that flexable [04:13] well, I guess that concludes the official part of our chat, only 3 hours later than planned :D [04:13] when the hype dies down, does civ 4 feel like it will hold up to the legacy? [04:13] Yes [04:13] it does [04:14] * BillyBoBob has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:14] big pimpin [04:14] silly q [04:14] not really, civ3 didn't [04:14] only silly question is one you dont ask [04:14] :) [04:14] Okay people, you not got homes to go to? [04:14] move along, nothing to see here ;) [04:14] this chat will remain open... well as long as apolyton is open ;) [04:14] hey locutus, how are the battles in this one? I liked the battles in civ 3 alot cause they felt epic and taxing, sorta like a real life battle [04:15] It really is much more enjoyable than civ3. the starts are much more balanced, fewer loser starts [04:15] battles are cool. better than civ3, which had crap battles IMO [04:15] i liked it cause you could cut the ai's link to a resource and screw them [04:15] you can still do that [04:15] 9 minutes till bed :) [04:15] kinda made fighting over resources vital [04:16] thanks guys for the generous answers [04:16] np, anytime [04:16] cant wait till tomorrow [04:16] at least a week for me :( [04:17] soren said the soundtrack with the preorder edition has >7 hours of music [04:17] weekend is the soonest I could get it [04:17] not just the preorder, regular game too [04:17] uh, no [04:17] hopefully Friday [04:17] uh, yes [04:17] only preorder has soundtrack CD [04:18] right? [04:18] that's a seperate CD I think, so you can listen in your car or whatever. civ4 ships with 7+ hours of in-game music, in any version [04:18] why else do you think they need a DVD for the game? :) [04:18] oh, ok. i see [04:18] shoot, i don't know [04:19] how much did nimoy cost? anybody know? [04:19] hmm, how good is the music? I kind of liked ctp's [04:19] * EPW has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:19] there's sooo much fluff in this game: music, movies, animations, everything... [04:19] Oh? Pre-Order Civ4 is DVD, even in North America? [04:19] no [04:19] DVD in europe [04:19] lol, they don't disclose that kind of info pubically asleep [04:20] Right, that is all the pron I need downloaded for one night. Cyas around and may Civ IV get to us ASAP. [04:20] qm, everyone says it's very good. I'm not a huge fan myself, but then I just don't like classical music. the diplo music is amazing though [04:20] good night. [04:20] c'mon Locutus, we all know that you are in the know [04:20] yeah [04:20] * kittenOFchaos has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [04:20] too much info kitten . . . [04:20] even I am kept in the dark on this :) [04:20] oh well [04:20] I'm not mnch for classical myslf [04:20] * geneshifter has left #Apolyton [04:20] NA release is 2 CDs (regular game, not preorder) [04:21] but I hope they have a couple good tribal tracks for the early era ;) [04:21] haven't actually heard most of the ancient soundtrack, am hoping for that to be good indeed. [04:22] * settler has joined #apolyton [04:22] It's okay Locutus. I'll get my pre-order game tomorrow and will find out. [04:22] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [04:23] * foolish has joined #apolyton [04:23] we'll see :) [04:24] shocking admission: I didn't preorder. Hope I can find a copy in Indianapolis... [04:24] whats the preorder [04:24] difference [04:24] its not dvd is it [04:24] neither did I, getting it in a shop is usually faster [04:24] * blake has quit IRC (Client closed connection) [04:24] I don't know exactly, cooler cover, some extra goodies, but nothing too special AFAICT [04:25] you know, the wild anamals thing kind of bothers me, how many times in history has a pride of lions killed off a bunch of settlers? [04:25] I pre-ordered from a local EB Games, not online. [04:26] we didn't get to hear the histories of those settlers [04:26] or had any real impact on history for that matter [04:26] All you have to do with settlers is discourage them -- they either go back home or scatter. [04:26] it just represents the dangers of the wild in general, you might just as well get lost, die in a storm or earthquake or whatever. sometimes gameplay trumps reality [04:27] * Tacit_Exit has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [04:27] * foolish has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [04:27] that's what I figured [04:28] * spacebar has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [04:28] * foolish has joined #apolyton [04:28] could be useful for monsters in the fanatay mod anyway ;) [04:28] * Jaybe has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [04:32] * settler has joined #apolyton [04:32] * settler has quit IRC (Quit: settler) [04:32] * E_T has joined #apolyton [04:32] wow, noone said anything for several minutes!! that hasn't happened in more than 10 hours :) [04:32] boo [04:32] anything [04:32] :-p [04:32] CFC's chat is still going strong... [04:32] * VetLegion has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:32] anyone have any more questions? i'm gonna turn in soon... [04:33] promised myself no more allnighters after civ4 went gold, well, that didn't hold up for very long... [04:33] yes CT they are talking but are they saying anything? :P [04:33] * Locutus changes topic to 'Civ4 Released!' [04:33] 'll be here for awhile [04:33] Lot of unnoficial" [04:33] " questions here, but we got the core of what we wanted. [04:34] lol @ Locutus [04:34] Ask away Ct, if you've got a question for me ;) [04:34] I'm too tired to think of a proper title... [04:35] The Civin' Hordes? :) [04:35] - Some question may or may not be answered - [04:35] * Verenti has joined #apolyton [04:35] Hey everyone [04:35] Heya. [04:35] hi [04:35] how about, how extreme can the map generator get? can you have a 75% desert or tundra world? [04:35] * aeson has joined #Apolyton [04:35] * Stormhound has joined #Apolyton [04:36] ah, Dan is still alive, he can come up with a proper channel title, then I can go to bed ;) [04:36] tuens question to Aeson.. :cute: [04:36] Yes, you can get very dry/cold works [04:36] *worlds [04:36] You can even edit the python file, too to get more extreme worlds. [04:36] tried it CT? [04:36] just wondering :) [04:36] No, because I was focusing on the core game. [04:36] :) [04:36] :p [04:36] But it can be done. [04:36] with python you can acomplish absolutely any map you want, if you're willing to invest enough time and effort [04:37] can it get more extreme with no modding than in other covs? [04:37] *civs [04:37] yes [04:37] It'll be even more fun when the SDK arrives. [04:37] what do you lean by extreme? [04:37] * Lord has joined #apolyton [04:37] other civs were nothing compared to civ4 in modding terms [04:37] true that [04:37] You could practically make a "Civ4 Lite" version, where you can see what the AI is doing. :) [04:37] extreme like 75% tundra [04:38] CIv2 had one, lousy text file... [04:38] Hmm.. I do not have my Civ IV yet, stupid EB. [04:38] Civ4 has... well... a bunch! [04:38] I'm a sucker for hellworlds with raging barbs ;) [04:38] sounds like a fun game :scared: [04:38] How is the game? [04:38] very, very good [04:38] XML is fun, and it even tells you what you're editing. [04:38] Good to hear. [04:38] It's like HTML (or UBB code) [04:38] * Lord has quit IRC (Quit: Bye bye) [04:38] anyway, I'm off to bed, CU all [04:38] bestest so far ;) [04:38] * Locutus is now known as Locutus|asleep