[16:08] *** ACS_MarkG sets 4[channelmode] +m [16:08] <@ACS_MarkG> Gentlemen we are inmoderated mode for a bit [16:09] <@ACS_MarkG> Let me officially start the Apolyton Civ3 Conquests Release Party! [16:09] <@ACS_MarkG> with us is Bob Taylor from BreakAway Games [16:09] <@ACS_MarkG> i'm uncertain on exact showing from other celebrities from Firaxis or Atari [16:10] <+bobT_Breakaway> LOL okay, then hello to everyone. [16:10] <+bobT_Breakaway> Hopefully the games will be popping up all over the place very soon [16:12] how many peopel work in breakaway? [16:12] <+bobT_Breakaway> Breakaway as a whole company has about 25 on staff. But that varies [16:13] Who worked on AI for Conquests? What changes were made to it that might affect a normal game? [16:13] how big is the manual for conquest will be ? [16:13] 88 pages I think.. [16:14] i read somewhere that in the new conquests there will be improved multiplayer [16:14] <+bobT_Breakaway> AI work was a combined effort of Firaxis and Breakaway [16:14] <+bobT_Breakaway> The manual will be your standard expansion size manual :) [16:14] Did Soren juice the AI a bit for standard games? [16:15]

Did Soren juice the AI a bit for standard games?... Soren didn't directly work on Conquests, but the AI was tweaked [16:16] so the AI is much improve from version .41 beta? [16:17] <+bobT_Breakaway> The AI has had numerous tweaks [16:17] Will there be any future patches planed for C3C? [16:18] there will probably be patches, to fix anything that comes up. But we get to enjoy release first ;) [16:18] will ptw and conquest have seperate lobby for online?? [16:18] yes joeb, there are two different lobbies [16:18] <+bobT_Breakaway> ....·Sirosis· What do you think the most significant change is in this expansion? (only pick 1 I know it's tough :) I think the addition of 9 scenarios spanning most of civilized history [16:19] BobT, they have said that C3C fixes up some of the previous expolits, can you be specific which ones AND can you tell us if the previous versions will be patched to fix them, at some later date? [16:19] you guys will love the scenarios ..there so awesome [16:20] <+bobT_Breakaway> I am not sure about previous versions being patched E_T [16:20] <+bobT_Breakaway> but many of the game exploits that players have used, are now no longer available [16:20] Is the infinite railroad expansion bug fixed? [16:21] Are all the scenarios capable of PBEM play and how is it handled if there are more than 8 civs in the scenario? [16:21] Is it true that RCP is dead? [16:21] <+bobT_Breakaway> Gobi Bear is the Producer from Breakaway games [16:21] RCP is dead :P [16:21] Can you talk about how the city ring exploit (for communism) was fixed? [16:21] RCP: how did you sove it? :) [16:21] Let's talk about Conquests in MP [16:21] I didn't know communism had city placement exploits.. [16:22] <+Gobi> We have created MP versions of each Conquest [16:22] <@ACS_MarkG> Hi and thank you for joining us Gobi! [16:22] Are the makers going to plan to releace scenarios on a montly basis. Like what Maxis did with SimCity 3000 with the Landmarks? [16:22] <+Gobi> They are all SIMILAR to the single-player versions, but there are changes to customize them for MP [16:22] Can you have more then 8 people in a hotseat/PBEM game [16:22] Hey what's the "Bonus CD" that is included with C3C? [16:22] so the mp version scenario for conquest will be loaded, not single play conquest? [16:22] <+Gobi> The 8-person limit is still in place. [16:22] <@ACS_MarkG> also hi and thank you to Merepatra, who worked on QA for C3c [16:22] <+Gobi> So here are some examples of how we changed things for MP [16:23] <+bobT_Breakaway> Merepatra is also on the team at Breakaway :) [16:23] <+Gobi> 1: All MP scenarios have accellerated production on [16:23] <+Gobi> 2: In Napoleonic Europe, England's allies (Netherlands, Portugal, etc.) are just represented by English units [16:24] <+Gobi> 2: That gets us under 8 civs total in the game [16:24] hmmm. Is it possible to turn off Accel Prod for the MP conquests? Some people really hate it y,know? [16:24] <+Merepatra> It would be possible to edit the conquest in the editor to turn off MP [16:24] <+Merepatra> oops...to turn off AP [16:24] <+Gobi> 3: For Sengoku/Feudal Japan, we even reduced the size of the playing map to make it more appropriate for 8 players [16:25] <+Gobi> 4: Middle Ages was the toughest to adjust for MP. There we combined civs so the Danish/Norwegians are combined, as are the Swedish and Rus [16:26] *** JeffATARI (~jeff.fole@66.151.178.4) 4[joined] #Apolyton. [16:27] how different is the modern age? [16:27] <+Gobi> I think there are several major changes to the Modern Age [16:27] <+Gobi> 1: Ships are faster and a bit more potent [16:28] <+Gobi> 2: Planes are a lot more effective, many with lethal bombardment now [16:28] <+bobT_Breakaway> paratroppers [16:28] <@ACS_MarkG> greetings to Jeff Foley of Atari :) [16:28] <+Gobi> 3: There are new anti-aircraft units (first Flak, later mobile SAM) [16:29] What is your favorite conquest? [16:29] How many tiles do flak and SAMs cover? [16:29] <+Gobi> 4: And there is TOW infantry to provide cheaper infantry when you don't have rubber or other resources [16:29] Explain your reasoning behind the changes to MGLs and the new SGLs (please). [16:29] GOBI...can u change the diffcult level on conquest when playing mp? [16:29] <+bobT_Breakaway> joeb it defaults to regent [16:29] <+Gobi> You can control the difficulty level that the AI uses in MP [16:30] so no way to change diffcult hmm ok [16:30] <+bobT_Breakaway> you can change the AI [16:30] <+Gobi> Yes, let's talk about leaders a bit. [16:31] <+Gobi> There were two main goals with respect to leaders. 1) Make sure that peaceful builders could get leaders too, and [16:31] <+Gobi> 2) Make sure that there were still choices about how to use them once you received them [16:31] <+Gobi> Before warmongers got the most leaders and they always used them to rush wonders [16:32] <+Merepatra> The Austrian UU is a Hussar [16:32] <+Gobi> So now, you can still get leaders through military action [16:32] Just checking. Would ground units in C3C have the abbility to defend againt Aircraft in the field? [16:32] <+Gobi> But we made two changes so you didn't always rush wonders with them [16:32] oh I got a question, is there a scenario to include the Austrians? It was kinda missing in the beta [16:33] <+Gobi> We made armies better, and we changed it so military leaders only rush small wonders [16:33] <+Gobi> You can now get Scientific Leaders by being the first to research a tech. [16:33] can SGL rush GWs? [16:33] I'm mostly interested in the Age of Discovery Scenario, I was curious about the trading aspects of it, do they work as per normal, or are they tweaked in some way? [16:33] <+bobT_Breakaway> yes they can [16:33] <+Gobi> They can rush Great Wonders OR give you a bonus on scientific research for 20 turns [16:34] <+Gobi> The Austrians are in the Napoleonic Europe conquest [16:34] The Civilopedia reflects all these changes, right? [16:34] <+Gobi> Their Hussar UU is featured in that one [16:34] Gobi - does that mean that there is a % chance of getting a SL when you are the first to an advance for EVERY advance? [16:34] yeah, I was just wondering if there was a pre-packaged scenario which would put the Austrians in the list for a random game [16:34] <+Gobi> MrWIA: Yes it does. But the chance is small (about 5%) [16:34] <+Gobi> Unless you are a scientific civ [16:34] <+bobT_Breakaway> the civilopedia reflects all changes, and there are several civilopedias to read :) [16:35] Was any improvement made on the trading system? [16:35] I thought 5% was for the Scientific civ, and 3% for everyone else (unless they changed that at the last minute) :) [16:35] what are the traits for the austrians? [16:35] <+JeffATARI> yeah, you'll spend the first 5-30 minutes just flipping through the civilopedia for a conquest and staring with your mouth open. At least that's what I did... [16:35] <+Gobi> Trust Chieftess on those percentages ... I'm doing this from memory [16:36] * Tyr says, "It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them." [16:36] I did that with the Jap Scenario Jeff! [16:36] There is no restriction on getting a SGL from a tech? I mean, you could get one with the very first tech you research, right? [16:36] NW: contact and map trading are changed I think [16:36] Would Ground units be able to defend against Air units when on the field in C3C? [16:36] Could you explain the introduction of Plague? Is it random...does it spread...can you combat it...how long does it last? [16:37] <+Gobi> Ah plague ... one of my favorite topics [16:37] <+bobT_Breakaway> CivGeneral_CompLab· Would Ground units be able to defend against Air units when on the field in C3C?.... if they have mobile sam or AA units in their stack [16:37] the more people complained about how bad the plague was the more Gobi increased it [16:37] <+Gobi> Scenario designers decide (1) roughly when it should start occurring, (2) how many times it should come back during the game, and (3) how strong each occurrence is [16:38] Most important : can we send Tha Plague to our enemies? :evil: [16:38] <+Gobi> But once a plague start, there is an algorithm in the software for how it spreads. [16:38] does plague occur in random maps...or just scenarios? [16:38] It looks really scary, too (the plague). [16:38] is the plague in the epic game??? :evilgrin: [16:39] <+Gobi> If I recall correctly, it does depend on how large the cities are, whether or not they are walled, and how many resources they are getting from trade [16:39] <+Gobi> I think coastal cities are more likely to contract plague too [16:39] Why can't the Chasqui Scout be 0/0/1 ATAR? :) [16:39] <+Gobi> In the default random map games, plague will not occur [16:40] are there ways of aleviating plague effects? [16:40] but you can turn it on ;) [16:40] gobi what tweaks u did to the AI? [16:40] <+Gobi> But in the Scenarios folder we shipped some variants. One of those is the random map game with plague turned on [16:40] or avoiding them? [16:40] <+Gobi> Researching to Sanitation will greatly diminish your chance of getting plague [16:41] will ther emaybe be a plague ON/OFF option in the game launch menu in the futre patch?? ;) [16:41] can the plague be transported on ships? [16:42] <+Merepatra> No Sirosis, plague is city specific [16:42] <+bobT_Breakaway> units die as well [16:42] <+bobT_Breakaway> and you could end up undefended :) [16:42] Any other ways of reducing the chances of plague? With Aqueducts or Hospitals, for example? [16:42] <+Gobi> I can't answer any questions about future patches. My crystal ball kept breaking down during Conquest development. Still in the shop... [16:43] <+Merepatra> citizens and units dying [16:43] Is it funny when an enemy comes towards you, and all of the sudden a volcano exlpodes next to all his men and wipes em out? [16:43] <+Gobi> As you can see, plague was controversial. Personally I loved it, but that's why it ended up as a variant [16:43] <+JeffATARI> My crystal ball works! Let me shake it for you... it says "Answer hazy; try again later." [16:43] sn00py, in the beta test I got a volcano to wipe out the persians. It was hillarious [16:43] gobi what tweaks u did to the AI? [16:43] will units in the city only die oe units around the city? [16:44] <+Gobi> AI was tweaked in several areas. Here are the biggest [16:45] <+Gobi> 1: Bombardment AI was made a lot smarter. It takes into account about twice as many factors before deciding which tile to target now. That was a key change for WW2 in the Pacific [16:45] * Chieftess has one. [16:45] <+Gobi> 2: Naval escort AI is much smarter too. We needed that for both WW2 in the Pacific and Age of Discovery [16:45] <+Gobi> Units (like carriers and transports) can be set to always require escorts before the AI will move them [16:46] <+JeffATARI> it made it very difficult to take out any Caravels in Age of Discovery, with those Frigates following them around [16:46] does the AI know how to use artillery? [16:46] About Flak, is it tile specific or kinda random [16:47] <+Gobi> Flak just defends the tile it is in [16:47] and sams? [16:47] <+Gobi> Yes, same with SAMs [16:47] sams are just faster [16:47] * Chieftess saw a civ send an artillery piece out (defended it too) just to bombard a unit. [16:47] Can the Japanese AI make a good game in WWII Pacific vs a human American? [16:47] <+Gobi> The Mobile SAMs can be moved quickly and accompany your key stacks [16:47] can flak/sams defend more that once per turn? [16:48] <+bobT_Breakaway> nye-atwork, yes they can make a very good game of it [16:48] the mobile artillary then? [16:48] or whatever the name was now again... [16:48] erev tov zeit [16:48] how does the AI feel like in conquest compare to ptw? [16:49] And what about diplomacy, besides the new options, were there any tweaks? [16:50] <+Gobi> The biggest change to diplomacy was in the Locked Alliance system [16:50] <+bobT_Breakaway> locked alliances and locked into war make huge changes to the game play :) [16:50] <+Gobi> It is used in 4 of the 9 Conquests. Will allow lots of interesting scenarios to be created by fans in the future too [16:51] Does the Ally actually help you in times of need? [16:51] Armies look liek a much better investment now [16:51] especially since leaders cant rush great wonders [16:51] <+Merepatra> Yes, armies are much improved [16:52] <+Gobi> How about Legion armies in Rise of Rome? [16:52] <+Gobi> They won't give away everything they own for nothing [16:52] <+bobT_Breakaway> Legion3's in Rise of Rome in a deadly rampaging army :) [16:52] <+Gobi> But they will always come to your aid if attacked and can never backstab you in any way [16:53] are ther eunique leaderheads for the conquests?? [16:53] <+Gobi> We created 8 new leaderheads, giving us 32 total [16:53] <+bobT_Breakaway> Yes, Allies should not be looked at as freebie techs, you still need to be wise. But they will always be there for you in battle [16:53] <+Gobi> Many of the new civs chosen were selected to fit within our needs for the Conquests [16:53] but no conquest-specific ones?? [16:53] <+Gobi> Using that pool of 32 leaderheads, we were able to come up with leaderheads everywhere. [16:54] <+Gobi> Except the last 3 Conquests use flags instead of leaderheads [16:54] Can we know some of the specific COnquest units in advance? :D [16:55] <+Gobi> Which Conquest are you most curious about Nuclear? [16:55] Is there a way to mark spots on the map with notes? [16:55] <+bobT_Breakaway> notes? [16:56] Hmm. No interesting peeps around here. [16:56] Can you summerize the new civs in c3c for those who haven't read all previews? [16:56] Gobi : Ehm, WWII and Rise of ROme :D [16:56] yes, just a way to mark the map so I remember what I wanted to do. Particularly in PBEM games [16:57] I really like the idea of pushing back capability for trading maps and contacts... [16:57] IN pbem will be able to see when we are attack? [16:57] hi one question please; the bugs in multiplayer have been solved? [16:58] <+JeffATARI> I'll take on the "civ summary" question... [16:58] *** JimMac (~Java_user@modem-107.finasteride.dialup.pol.co.uk) 4[joined] #Apolyton. [16:58] <+bobT_Breakaway> a lot of effort has been put into the MP portion of the game, and a number of problems were addressed [16:58] <+JeffATARI> Byzantines with UU Dromon. Hittites, 3-Man Chariot. Incans, Chasqui Scout [16:59] <+JeffATARI> Mayans, Javelin Thrower. Sumerian, Enkidu Warrior [16:59] <+JeffATARI> Netherlands, Swiss Mercenary. Portugal, Carracks. [16:59] Q: WIll we be able to see enemy turn in MP?? [17:00] Can we know some of the specific COnquest units in advance? More specifically, from WWII, Age of Sail and Rise of Rome? Please? [17:00] <+Gobi> Ok, let me talk about Rise of Rome a bit as per Nuclear's request [17:00] <+JeffATARI> Oh, man, do I ever! And you only get one move a turn! What's up with that? [17:00] explain quick civ scenaro to the people? [17:01] <+JeffATARI> 7 new civs, officially. Super secret unlockable 8th civ of the Austrians. [17:01] * +JeffATARI borrows a page from console marketing [17:01] Hey Jeff, are the beta testers still bound by the NDA? [17:01] <+Gobi> In that time period, Persia was about to be attacked by Alexander's army [17:01] <+bobT_Breakaway> shhh, dont tell them about the Austrians, that is secret [17:01] Q: Will we be able to see enemy moves in PBEM?????? [17:01] <+Merepatra> Yes they are Snoopy...for now and forever :) [17:02] <+Gobi> And in a few hundred years Carthage and Rome would start the Punic Wars [17:02] <+JeffATARI> Sure! Ahhhh... call 1-900-Jeff-needs-more-games. Donate to my paypal account, and... oh wait, no... [17:02] jeffATARI why the unique unit for Spain is soo poor? Is obsolete.... [17:02] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: I honestly don't know how the NDA was worded. [17:02] <+Gobi> So we have used locked alliances to force the Greeks and Persians to fight things out. Same with the Romans and Carthaginians [17:02] So I can't say "The beta C3C has...in it" but I can say "C3C has.... in it" [17:02] <+JeffATARI> I would bet that in letter of the law, yes you are bound. If you want to start talking about cool things from the beta testing, I say go right ahead. [17:02] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py -- exactly. [17:03] <+Merepatra> Yes Snoopy, you are free to talk about the release version, like anyone, but not the beta version [17:03] What traits are the Ausrtirians? [17:03] <+JeffATARI> Well, I believe since they're not an official civ, so they do not have set traits [17:03] <+Gobi> All of the civs still have UUs in Rise of Rome, and you can win as Macedon, Persia or Carthage (as well as Rome of course) [17:03] <+Merepatra> We never really set traits for the Austrians as the decision to leave them out was made before Agr and Sea were included [17:04] *** ACS_MarkG has quit IRC (Killed (NickServ (Nick kill enforced))) [17:04] can anyone answer if we will be able to see enemy turns in PBEM?? [17:04] well i need to know there traits were adding them in a sg and the traits are the one thing we can't agree on [17:04] <+Merepatra> In Napoleonic Europe the Austrians are Mil/Ind but that doesn't mean they would have been that in the epic game as many civs have different traits in some conquests [17:05] <+Merepatra> No status... there were no changes to how PBEM basically works [17:06] have all the MP bugs been addressed? like the crashing with bombers? [17:06] There was one minor change in PBEMs, but since I'm in the beta, I can't talk about that. :) [17:06] Jesse might be able to tell. [17:06] Why don´t you guys tell us poor mortals who won´t get C3C in a long time a bit about Napppy´s wars now? :) [17:06] Did you know there was a russian website, trying to sell everyones civ3 modded work? [17:07] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: generally we try to hunt those down with a cease and desist letter. [17:07] ok... will you be able to se AI moves in MP/Hotseat games even if you aren't player #1?? [17:07] <+Merepatra> have all the MP bugs been addressed? like the crashing with bombers?... yes, it appears that the bomber crashes are all fixed [17:07] <+Gobi> We had planned on making the Austrians Mil and Ind in the epic game. But as Mere said, that was before we rebalanced traits with agricultural and seafaring [17:07] cool. was anything done about the lag? [17:08] <+bobT_Breakaway> lag and 00000ssssssssss have been helped out a good deal, but it still comes down to player connections [17:09] <+bobT_Breakaway> we have had great success with 8 player games :) [17:09] LAN? [17:09] or net? [17:09] So PBEM has not basically changed in C3C. Why's that? [17:09] <+bobT_Breakaway> net [17:10] ok... is there any changes affecting the viewing of AI/player turns in MP?? [17:10] <+Merepatra> no status [17:11] so no replay???for PBEM??? :((((( [17:11] any hope of an automatic pbem mailer? [17:11] <+Gobi> Nuclear just asked about Napoleonic Europe [17:11] <+Gobi> No designer diary out for that yet, so I'll answer a few questions on that [17:11] <+bobT_Breakaway> one of my favorite scenarios :) [17:12] <+Gobi> Every country in that one has multiple infantry, cavalry, and artillery units [17:12] <+Gobi> Their stats are customized by country to reflect the militaries of the time [17:12] i just saw a screenshot of the Napoleonic Europe scenario, where 3 players have a ~ next to their name. whats up with that? [17:13] <+Gobi> The French are clearly the strongest, and have Danish allies, but if the other powers team up against them it can get nasty [17:13] <+Gobi> That one is great in MP. Even playing for just 60 to 90 mins gives you a very interesting game of Napoleonic Europe [17:13] <+JeffATARI> I suspect anyone who has it is not going to spend time on this chat.......... [17:13] <+Merepatra> Napoleonic Europe has one of my favourite new units for graphics, the Grand Battery [17:14] <+Gobi> There is also a lot of naval combat between England and France ... and your ships can enslave enemy ships to capture them [17:14] Just out of curiousity (I've not played an MP civ yet), how many max players are there for MP in Civ? [17:14] do you get units inside when you enslave them? [17:15] or do they disappear, like a culture flip of doom [17:15] <+Gobi> Uber the ~ next to people's names shows who hasn't finished their move yet [17:15] <+bobT_Breakaway> you do not get units inside of units [17:15] <+bobT_Breakaway> you get new units [17:15] <+Merepatra> 8 Snoopy [17:16] Can you play AoD in MP? [17:16] <+bobT_Breakaway> in AoD and in one of the intro scenarios you do have a treasure unit, that is carried inside of a unit :) [17:16] <+Gobi> Absolutely, Sn00py [17:16] <+Merepatra> Yes you can Snoopy, and its one of my favourites in MP [17:16] <+Gobi> I'm hoping to get online and play AOD with some folks later this week! [17:17] <+Gobi> Can get VERY interesting with treasure units changing hands... [17:17] <+Gobi> Yes, we were playing Napoleonic Europe for fun in the office last week [17:19] what about conquistator of spanish? In PTW it was quite bad unit.... [17:19] it comes with astro now iirc [17:19] <+Gobi> Yes, getting the Conquistador sooner should be a big help [17:20] does explorer "upgrade" to Conquistador or vice versa? [17:20] <+JeffATARI> the Spanish Conquistador is the main reason I won my first emperor attempt at the AoD conquest [17:20] <+JeffATARI> with the restrictions on map trading, the importance of explorers and conquistadors has increased significantly [17:21] <+Gobi> Conquistador to Explorer [17:21] <+JeffATARI> conquistador is great for getting treasures from the western side of the continent to a port on the east coast for easy transpot back to the capital [17:22] *** FrustratedPoet (Frustrated@cpc4-oxfd4-5-0-cust140.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) 4[left] #apolyton. [17:22] <+JeffATARI> without worrying so much about interference from angry indigenous tribes... [17:22] new resources...not stategic, they are basically tile improvements? [17:22] Is there any last minute flaw we should know about? The CD check in European versions of PTW brough lot of headaches to us... [17:23] <+JeffATARI> that desert oasis is nice... good that deserts can be useful before railroads... [17:23] <+JeffATARI> Keygen: that's the kind of thing that keeps me up at night... what happens when you go from a few hundred testers to a few hundred thousand players? [17:24] <+JeffATARI> But we have put it through our battery of compatibility tests and I think our QA department feels very good about the release. [17:24] <+Gobi> Keygen: We've continued to test and haven't found a flaw yet. But as Jeff says, you never know for sure until it hits the streets [17:25] Can I play as an indian civ in AoD? and if so, can I beat the Europeans? [17:25] <+Merepatra> Yes to both Snoopy [17:25] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: yes, by growing your culture faster than the Europeans can raid your land of its treasures [17:25] <+bobT_Breakaway> yes SnOOpy [17:25] mere: beat the euros? how bad do they have to suck? [17:25] <+Merepatra> But its harder to win as an American Civ [17:25] I understand. Our future posts in Apolyton will surely help you out fix any problem that you might have missed. [17:25] <+bobT_Breakaway> it is a challenge but very doable [17:26] How does one win AoD anyway? whats the victory? [17:26] <+JeffATARI> I've always wondered if a European civ could mess with its rivals by trading the native american civs all sorts of advanced technologies [17:26] <+Merepatra> The strategy for winning as an American civ is very different for the strategy as an European in AoD, but both are doable and fun [17:26] <+JeffATARI> haven't tried that gambit yet [17:26] <+JeffATARI> but I certainly traded them all sorts of tech to get the gold I needed [17:26] how are the other scenarios? [17:27] can the Americans civs invade Europe? [17:27] <+JeffATARI> Spain starts out with major negative cash flow [17:27] <+JeffATARI> opd22: they don't have any sort of advanced seafaring [17:27] <+Merepatra> I last won as the Mayans, by a lot of enslaving [17:27] What does the enslaving do exactly? [17:27] <+bobT_Breakaway> the Americans can enslave the Euros [17:27] is sacrificing turned on in AoD? [17:28] <+JeffATARI> DaveMcW: yes! [17:28] <+Merepatra> When you win a battle you enslave the loser, in AoD they are turned into workers [17:28] <+JeffATARI> So you can enslave and drag off the Europeans for your sacrifice [17:28] Gobi, is there any difference between the NA english game and the english game on the ROTW CD? [17:28] <+JeffATARI> unfortunately they have this whole gunpowder thing [17:28] is it worth it to sacrifice...or does it merely satiate our bloodlust? [17:28] <+JeffATARI> which makes it significantly more difficult. An easier target are your rival tribes. [17:28] But surely the Europeans can also capture them for slavement? [17:28] <+Merepatra> So you can use them to clear your jungle and put in roads...so you can send them to your capital to the sacrifical altar ;) [17:28] <+Gobi> Canuck, no there isn't any difference in the English versions. The final US CD and the ROTW one were mastered on the same day [17:28] <+Merepatra> No, Europeans don't have the enslavement tech [17:29] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: in fact as Spain I wiped out the Iroquois and used them to build roads to connect my cities. I only felt a little dirty. :) [17:29] <+bobT_Breakaway> No, SnOOpy, only the Americas can enslave [17:29] <+Merepatra> Until they get missionaries, missionaries can enslave, but not sacrifice [17:29] So I can capture some stupid Europeans, make them work the land, then kill them to appease the Gods? [17:29] <+JeffATARI> It's not enslavement, but you can still capture their workers [17:29] <+JeffATARI> Sn00py: yes. [17:29] <+Gobi> I think the electronic UK English manual is a bit different (credits, contact info, etc.) but that is about it [17:29] great, and since the copy protection is the same this will make the patches much less problematic [17:29] <+JeffATARI> indeed [17:30] Doesn't the English Man'O'War have the enslavement ability in AoD? [17:30] <+Gobi> Yes, patches should be much easier. And all versions (even French, German, Italian, Spanish) use the same EXE file [17:30] <+JeffATARI> Yes, as do the privateers. But they don't enslave to create workers, they create duplicates of themselves. [17:31] How does Firaxis feel if another company made a Civ-type game? (Just like Activision did) [17:31] <+Merepatra> The Man-O-War (which is for all Europeans, not just English in AoD) can enslave ships [17:31] and what about man o war? in ptw is very bad because iroclands come very fast [17:31] <+Gobi> Guest - Ironclads are now moved to an optional tech that the AI often fails to research [17:31] <+Gobi> Means you have a longer Age of Sail [17:31] Jeff: So, a unit that has "enslavement" will always create the same unit -as defined in the editor, no matter what unit it defeats? [17:31] <+JeffATARI> No one can make a game called "Civilization" without first coming to an arrangement regarding the product license for the intellectual property [17:31] <+Merepatra> The English Man-O-War UU has enslavement added, when it wins a battle there is a chance of the loser being enslaved and turned into another Man-O-War [17:32] <+Gobi> And Man-O-Wars in the epic game now enslave to create copies of themselves. They are to be feared now [17:32] <+JeffATARI> Spiffor: unga bunga. Me just marketing. Me not play with editor. [17:32] is the ROTW CD the one being sold in Autrialia/NZ and the rest of asia? [17:32] <+Merepatra> Yes Spiffor, thats how it works, the unit is defined in the editor [17:32] Australia [17:32] ok, thanks MerePatra :) [17:32] <+JeffATARI> but since you can enslave to create workers, I'm pretty sure it's not always the same unit. [17:32] <+JeffATARI> Ah, what Merepatra said. [17:33] <+Gobi> Enslavement: for each unit with this ability, you specify what is created when it wins a combat [17:33] <+Gobi> But you can't make it depend on WHO it defeated [17:33] wow, another concept I modded into CtP2 [17:33] <+Merepatra> I think we will have to wait till it gets here to see whether its the US or ROTW version sold in Australia.. usually we get the US version [17:33] What does sacrificing do? [17:34] <+JeffATARI> How To Sacrifice in 3 Easy Steps [17:34] <+Gobi> Sacrificing builds culture for that city and your civ in general [17:34] <+JeffATARI> Step 1: Bring enemy worker to your city with a sacrificial altar. [17:34] <+JeffATARI> Step 2: Sacrifice worker. [17:34] <+JeffATARI> Step 3: Enjoy insta-culture boost, possibly expanding borders immediately. [17:34] <+Gobi> Use it when going for a cultural victory as a Mesoamerican civ in either the Mesoamerican or Age of Discovery conquests [17:35] <+JeffATARI> Okay, okay, so I left out the steps before step 1, where you actually have to progress up the tech tree to get the sacrifice tech [17:35] sorry if this has already been asked, but has the scenario loading time been significantly decreased? [17:35] are there any happiness problems with sacrificing foreign workers? [17:35] <+Merepatra> no Dave [17:35] you need a technology to sacrifice people? [17:35] <+JeffATARI> The moment you build a sacrificial altar in a town you affect happiness in that town, as I recall... [17:35] <+Gobi> The Sacrificial Altar does make the citizens of that city a bit, ... er ... uncomfortable [17:35] <+JeffATARI> at least in Mesopotamia [17:35] Hey I got a good one, since Indians didn't have horses till the euro's arrived, do the indians only get horse units when you trade the euro's for it? [17:36] <+Merepatra> Yes -1 happiness for a sacrificial altar [17:36] how about sacrificing your own workers :) [17:36] <+Merepatra> You can't do that Dave [17:36] <+JeffATARI> I don't believe you can do that, Dave [17:36] how corruption works now? has it been reduced? [17:36] <+Gobi> That would be interesting Snoopy ... and then fact that the Iroquois have a mounted UU is a bit weird in that scenario [ [17:36] <+Gobi> Not sure how we would give AI Europeans any incentive to trade horses to the natives though [17:37] <+JeffATARI> yah. There's already no incentive to trade them stuff as it is once they've given you every piece of gold left in their coffers [17:37] no guest, corruption has been increased :P [17:38] <+Merepatra> he was joking Guest, corruption hasn't been increased [17:38] <+JeffATARI> There's a colonial capital wonder that the European civs can build on the mainland... [17:38] <+Gobi> Dave is telling stories here ... corruption in general has been reduced [17:38] <+Gobi> The optimal number of cities has been bumped up to lessen it [17:38] <+Gobi> And in some scenarios (like Age of Discovery), we turned it WAY DOWN [17:38] <+JeffATARI> of course, nothing says you have to go to North America. You could stick to South America and Africa where there are fewer tribes to compete with [17:39] <+JeffATARI> but there aren't as many cool treasure locations down there, as I recall [17:39] <@ACS_MarkG> Jeff, how have the bonus cd "experiment" gone? will you do it again in the future? [17:39] <+bobT_Breakaway> Africa has a few [17:39] <+JeffATARI> MarkG: The jury is still out, I'm afraid. We did see a significant bump in preorders but it didn't match the levels I was hoping to see. [17:40] <+JeffATARI> That said, a lot of the retailers didn't handle the display and sale of the preorders very well... [17:40] Do the Portuguese tend to go to Africa at first? [17:40] <+JeffATARI> Which may or may not be my fault. So the jury is still out on me. :) [17:40] what about performance tweaks beside multiplayer? can we generally expect (a bit) faster turns than with the latest ptw patch? [17:40] <+JeffATARI> Long story short: I'd like to continue using presell programs, but we will have to evaluate their efficacy across the industry. [17:41] Hm, how long does an average game of AoD last? [17:41] Snoop - SP or MP? [17:41] mp [17:41] <+JeffATARI> Sirosis: yeah, in general the communication between corporate and store managers wasn't as strong as I had expected. [17:41] <+Gobi> Sn00py - probably 3 to 4 hours for an AOD game [17:41] maybe 3.5-4 hours [17:41] <@ACS_MarkG> Jeff, yes especially Amazon didnt handle very good [17:41] <+JeffATARI> That said, the other interesting trend (well, interesting to a publisher trying to figure out whether to use preorders) is... [17:42] <+JeffATARI> ...that so many titles out there are using preorders that store managers are having a hard time keeping track of what you get with which product [17:42] How did you manage to balance the civs in Europe? The Portuguese would only have enough room for what 1, 2? cities? [17:42] <@ACS_MarkG> I was seeing on our amazon affiliate reports 5 orders for c3c and 2 for the bonus cd :) [17:42] Snoop- for MP, AoD needs some "gentlemen's rules" [17:42] although I've seen Portugese driven off the mainland win; [17:43] bounces your capital into a position where you get quick treasure captures [17:43] Snoop -- they start in a GA, have some islands, and I think the Navigation School Small Wonder [17:43] but yeah, if Spain wants, they can drive Portugal into the Atlantic really quickly. [17:43] <+Gobi> Sn00py: The Portuguese get bonuses from their early start in exploration. Start with a Golden Age from the Dias' Voyage wonder [17:43] can you tell us anything about performance tweaks beside multiplayer?? [17:43] what are the chances of more XPs?? [17:43] <+Gobi> But they are in a shakey position in Europe [17:43] <+Merepatra> But generally I think the Portuguese is one of the easier civs to win with in SP [17:44] In SP, Portugal is definitely the civ to be. ;) [17:44] <+bobT_Breakaway> I win most often as the Portuguese, but not in MP :) [17:44] <+Gobi> Gabriel: Performance has been tweaked. The military advisor works a lot better with large quantities of units now. But overall we have added new features [17:45] <+Gobi> So I don't think you will see a big overall change from PTW's turn speed [17:45] <+JeffATARI> statusperfect: re: more XP's: let's see how this one does first. We have not announced any further plans. [17:45] and what about scenario loading times? [17:45] <+JeffATARI> But we haven't ruled out the possibility. [17:45] <+Gobi> The random map game is quick to load in all cases. [17:46] Navigation School small wonder? [17:46] <@ACS_MarkG> Jeff, are there any announcable sales figures on civ3 and ptw? [17:46] What were the elements of the "wishlist" that didn't finally make it into the game? [17:46] I've noticed a faster initial connection in MP over LAN for what that's worth... [17:46] <+Gobi> Only the biggest scenarios with lots of preplaced cities take a while to load. Napoleon and WW2 are probably the slowest [17:46] <+JeffATARI> MarKG: I believe we're over a million units of Civ worldwide. [17:46] since there are many nice scenarios for civ3 out there, but even the - not so quick ones - take several minutes to load :( [17:46] yes, some wishes didn't make it :-( [17:46] <+JeffATARI> and over 4.5 million units of Civ for all Civ since Civ 1 [17:47] <+Gobi> Enjoy Conquests this week! [17:47] <+JeffATARI> I'm headed out the door too. Food calls, and I have a small commute before I can answer. [17:47] <@ACS_MarkG> many thanks to Gobi off BreakAway Games for beig with us! [17:48] <@ACS_MarkG> and Jeff Foley of Atari :) [17:48] <+JeffATARI> You'll see more of me as we get closer to announcing news about Sid Meier's Pirates [17:48] <@ACS_MarkG> i dont suppose you can give any dates? :) [17:49] <+JeffATARI> but that's a different game, for a different time. For now, it's all Civ, all the time... [17:49] <@ACS_MarkG> yeah yeah ok ;) [17:49] * +JeffATARI saves his game and hits ESC [17:49] <+JeffATARI> bye all [17:50] <@ACS_MarkG> no hints, just give us the names [17:56] Can anyone say how RCP was fixed? [17:57] if you put 2 cities equal distance [17:57] Y'know, I knew I should've archived the thread about RCP [17:57] the one founded later has more corruption [17:59] so what about rank corruption expoit? Does the FP now work exactly the same as a palace? [18:01] <+bobT_Breakaway> okay folks, I have to run. Hope you all enjoy this as much as we did getting it out to you. [18:01] <@ACS_MarkG> many thanks for coming Bob! [18:01] See you around bob. [18:03] <@ACS_MarkG> merepatra, what's your previous civ experience? :) [18:04] <+Merepatra> Prior to this test ACS my Civ experience consisted of thinking "I really should try Civ one day" ;) [18:05] <+Merepatra> But I learn quickly. I started in January losing at Chieftain, then spent a few weeks reading everything I could on Apolyton and CFC and I now win at Diety usually [18:11] chieftess, something gave me the impression earilier that you work/worked with firaxis... beta tester? or? [18:19] *** MikeB (~Java_user@67.129.110.59) 4[joined] #Apolyton. [18:19] Merepatra, what is your connection with c3c? [18:19] Merepatra is with BA [18:20] <@ACS_MarkG> hi mike! [18:21] How's Firaxis since C3C has gone gold? Busy on Pirates? [18:21] hi Mike , do you know if unit trading is in ? [18:21] <+Merepatra> there is no unit trading Panag [18:22] We're busy alright... with Pirates and whatnot [18:25] wb Bob [18:25] hi again [18:28] Just repeating a question, but: can a c3c euro version be installed on a US ptw/civ 3 combo? [18:29] And the question I've heard from French users - Will the French version be able to play English mods and scenarios? [18:30] I know that C3C was planned to be cross compatable with all PTW/Civ3 variants [18:30] <+bobT_Breakaway> The French version, as well as all other language versions have units named in their native language [18:31] Like Portugal on the Napoleonic Scenario? [18:31] <+bobT_Breakaway> ini files may not work. [18:32] but like Bob says the scenarios and mods need extensive work to translate [18:32] <+MikeB> The only change you should need to make is to go into pediaicons.txt and change all the unit folder names to match the ones in your language. I don't know if this is automatically handled or not (though I would guess it's not). [18:32] <+bobT_Breakaway> yes [18:32] <+Merepatra> Can we play "non playable civs" on scenarios changing it in the editor?...yes you could change it in the editor to play them... but they aren't balanced to be played [18:32] <+MikeB> That only applies for vanilla civ3 units because we changed the system for ptw [18:34] <+bobT_Breakaway> the other way you can get them to work in other languages, is for modders to provide pedialcon, civilopedia and all other supporting text files in their language, and make sure the scenario uses a specific scenario folder. [18:34] *** Emperor1 (~yahoo@h24-68-71-156.vc.shawcable.net) 4[joined] #apolyton. [18:35] Does the ground A-A work equally well against Stealth and non-Stealth aircraft? [18:35] <+Merepatra> Yes, I "lost" my Napoleonic Europe English version but I still have the German version and I can play that ok in German in the English game as it has its own scenario folder [18:36] <+MikeB> I think in Conquests there is support for a partial civilopedia.txt (containing only scenario-specific items) and maybe some other text files as well... but again I'm not entirely sure (I came onto the project at the end to help out). [18:38] <+bobT_Breakaway> ·MikeB· I think in Conquests there is support for a partial civilopedia.txt (containing only scenario-specific items) and maybe some other text files as well... but again I'm not entirely sure (I came onto the project at the end to help out).... Yes Mike, a number of scenarios draw on the epic game as well as scenario specific civilopedias at one time [18:39] Speaking of modding, what is the impact on people evolved in Civ3 development regarding the source release of CtP2? Will that affect any future development in Civ3? [18:42] Are the Conquests designed in a way that future ones could be added? [18:42] Correction: added easily? By Modders or another expansion? [18:43] <+bobT_Breakaway> Many Conquest options are left untouched and could be added [18:43] <+Merepatra> More scenarios can easily be added to the Conquest folder... but we don't have any immediate plans to make more. There is also another folder for Mod scenarios [18:43] I think he means extra conquests? [18:43] <+MikeB> The Conquests are just scenarios made with the latest version of the editor. [18:44] Ah - so there's nothing about them that couldn;t be replicated by a user? [18:44] <+bobT_Breakaway> nope [18:44] <+MikeB> Are you asking if the CT2 source code release will have an impact on Civ3? I don't see how it would... [18:44] <+Merepatra> Well only winning all the "real" Conquests will trigger the victory movie, but otherwise you could make it all yourself [18:45] <+bobT_Breakaway> Everything we use is available [18:45] MOVIE?! [18:45] Can user made Conquests trigger their own victory movie? [18:45] <+Merepatra> that was the aim.. to make scenarios that showed off all the new features in the editor, AND were a lot of fun to play [18:46] <+Merepatra> yes, you get the movie when you win the last Conquest [18:46] yes. I think you'll like it. :) [18:46] <+bobT_Breakaway> No, there is no movie feature that you can add in the editor. [18:50] Will you guys be watching out on the major civ site forums for feedback over the next few weeks/months? If so please don;t take any of the negative stuff to heart - once we all settle down we are really quite enthusiastic and positive. :) [18:50] So does ground based A-A affect normal and Stealth aircraft equally? [18:50] <+Merepatra> I work from home, so I'm often working at 8am and still at midnight...but I have time off in between (most days!) [18:50] MikeB: In any future release, like a 3rd expansion set or perhaps a new version of the game. It is afterall the closest game to Civ3 and if improved greatly could affect future Civ3 sales thus further development? [18:51] <+Merepatra> Even with this being a job I still sometimes fall into the "just one more turn" syndrome :) [18:52] Could you tell us your biggest disappointement and achievement on the C3C expansion [18:52] <+bobT_Breakaway> I sure hope it does well :) [18:53] <+Merepatra> I don't have a biggest disappointment yet....hopefully no major bugs will ever be found, because that would be it if any were [18:54] Is there anything important that got cut last minute but you really wanted in? [18:55] <+bobT_Breakaway> Alva, the game as shipped is what we hoped to achieve :) [18:55] MWIA raises a good point. We may love 99% of it, but we will end up spending more time hashoing over the 1% we don't. Please put it into perspective. It is only because we love civ. :) [18:55] <+Merepatra> There were sometimes some choices that had to be made as to what there was time to achieve and what there wasn't, but I think we made the right choices [18:55] ok, that's the PC comment, now the real one ;) [18:56] Chieftess - I just figured out your secret identity and role with the C3C disc. [18:56] <+MikeB> We actually held up the game to make sure we released the version we were happy with... [18:56] <+Merepatra> ok, that's the PC comment, now the real one ;) ...lol, but its actually the true one too, I really am pleased with Conquests [18:57] <+bobT_Breakaway> Yep, as both Mike and Mere support me :) The game is great. Would I wish for anything that was left out ?? Okay to be honest yes [18:57] <+bobT_Breakaway> They never addressed the bobT losing all the time bug [18:58] <+Merepatra> I thought that was a feature not a bug Bob :) [18:58] <+bobT_Breakaway> after all they did nick name the AI bobT for a long time. then they fixed the AI, so I even lost that one. [18:58] <+MikeB> Clearly you haven't played against me... ;) That bug was fixed! [18:59] Now a difficult question to answer- did you left something out to put, perhaps on a new expansion - like better diplomacy or event scripting? [19:00] <+Merepatra> We didn't intentionally leave anything out thinking "we will leave this for the next xpack". [19:00] <+MikeB> In all my experience as a game developer, nothing has ever been left out to "save it for a future product" or anything like that. Whenever expansions have been decided on , we always had to figure out what to add... [19:03] what advantages does the AI get at sid level? [19:04] what do u mean u can change the ai diffcult in multiplay only [19:04] <+bobT_Breakaway> Lets say Donegeal one one Sid experience the AI had the colossus built in 5 turns from start hehe [19:04] sid level = rel/temple at 12 shields :eek: [19:04] <+Merepatra> Sid gets 12 defensive and 6 offensive starting units [19:05] settlers? [19:05] <+Merepatra> 24 free support units plus another 8 free for each city [19:05] <+Merepatra> 2 settlers, 4 workers [19:05] So, Mike, what are you working on now? (hey, a guy's gotta try) [19:05] believe me... 15 cities by 1000BC... [19:05] <+MikeB> Sid Meier's Pirates! [19:06] my understanding on mp u cant change the game diffcult? just the ai diffcult..how [19:06] <+Merepatra> Max gov transition time 1 turn, AI to AI trade is 200 and a cost factor of 4/10ths [19:06] <+Merepatra> and 50% of optimal cities .... its a little tough [19:06] How is Pirates! [19:07] Will there be an official website for that game any time soon? [19:07] <+bobT_Breakaway> I am about ready as well [19:07] <@ACS_MarkG> thanks for being wuth mere! [19:07] <+MikeB> So far, so good... Sid is actively involved in developing the game which is always a good thing... [19:08] my understanding on mp u cant change the game diffcult? just the ai diffcult..how? thanks [19:08] yes, I have some nice technical questions to ask Jesse 19:09] why cant u change diffcult level in mp? [19:09] <+bobT_Breakaway> Joeb it is hard coded. [19:10] what did u mean u can change ai diffcult? [19:10] <+bobT_Breakaway> in the editor [19:10] canuck u cant on conquest mp [19:11] the difficulty level or are you talking about AI aggresion? [19:11] <+bobT_Breakaway> just AI aggression [19:14] i've heard rumors of enhance diplomacy options such as unit trading/giving in C3C. is there any truth to this? [19:14] Mrex:no [19:15] <+bobT_Breakaway> no unit trading and giving unless you want to include enslavement [19:18] I had a nice email exchange with Jeff Foley today... he's pretty pumped. [19:19] In Age of Discovery it seems like you can capture ships with 'treasure' on board intact: is this different from normal enslavement? [19:21] <+bobT_Breakaway> ·Tacit_Exit· In Age of Discovery it seems like you can capture ships with 'treasure' on board intact: is this different from normal enslavement?,,, yes this is special for the AoD scenario [19:22] ta bob; so we can mod this onto any unit? [19:23] <+bobT_Breakaway> Yes the editor does allow for modding units to have enslavement capabilities [19:23] What about the treasure though? [19:23] bobT how well would you say the AI has responded to all the new governments? [19:24] <+bobT_Breakaway> Yes, the treasure is also available, it is a converted princess unit if I am correct :) [19:24] Clarification: can we mod any unit to capture the unit attacked as that unit not a pre-set unit? [19:24] In a mod can we chose different treasure types? [19:24] bobT, if anyone of your programmers got the time off sometime, make him program Unit Strenghts and Weaknesses flags, PLEASE! (i.e. Pikemen better against cavalry, etc...) [19:24] <+bobT_Breakaway> I used the same theory in the creation of one of the Intro missions where you toss victims into volcanoes [19:25] how the volcaneoes in 3 sister? [19:26] bobT will there be a mac port? [19:26] What's the case with the volcanos. I think somethink was mentioned about it (much) earlier but I can't remember. [19:26] <+bobT_Breakaway> I cant answer that one Nuclear [19:26] bobT outside of the scenarios what would you say was the main focus on conquests? [19:27] <+bobT_Breakaway> The main focus on Conquests was the Conquests :) [19:28] <+bobT_Breakaway> Volcanoes play an important roll in the game [19:28] what was the main focus outside of the conquests (scenarios) ?? [19:28] <+bobT_Breakaway> a number of major changes in the epic game as well [19:28] why not other Natural disasters, like Earthquakes of wildfires? [19:29] <+bobT_Breakaway> Well, I guess the modding community can try to incorporate earthquakes [19:29] <+bobT_Breakaway> :) [19:30] how would it possible to mod in earthquakes? [19:30] <+bobT_Breakaway> I dont know techwins :) [19:30] Can you be more specific about volcanoes bob? What are the chances to erupt? [19:31] keygen u can set it in the editor [19:31] bobt what is your favorite governemtn to play as? [19:31] <+bobT_Breakaway> the timing of volcanoes is coded into the epic game, but it can be changed in the editor. A scale is set for how often they are likely to errupt [19:32] <+bobT_Breakaway> they will destroy units within a tile or two [19:32] <+bobT_Breakaway> and will whip out cities as well [19:32] what are the odds of seeing of seeing a volcanoe erupt in a game? [19:32] <+bobT_Breakaway> pretty good chance of it [19:33] <+bobT_Breakaway> I do have to run [19:34] <+bobT_Breakaway> byee [19:37] On what part have you been working on Civ3 Mike? [19:37] <+MikeB> I came on at the end to help out. I did a bunch of random stuff with both the game and the editor. [19:38] Did you get involved in the expansions from the beggining? [19:38] Breakaway games was contracted to produce the Conquests scenarios [19:39] that sounds good. random stuff. i feel patches coming ;) [19:39] Isn't Mike working for Firaxis Canuck? [19:39] <+MikeB> More than just the scenarios... they were contracted to do the entire expansion.... We just helped out at the end (it was our code after all) [19:39] Firaxis was involved with alot of the MP stuff [19:58] <@ACS_MarkG> our thanks to the people from BreakAway Games, Atari and Firaxis who joined the fun, as well as everyone else who came [19:59] <@ACS_MarkG> Hi Meredith :) [19:59] <@ACS_MarkG> this is only the official note [19:59] <@ACS_MarkG> now starts the after party :)