Session Start: Tue Dec 17 15:15:43 2002 Session Ident: #civ3dem Session Start: Tue Dec 17 15:15:53 2002 Session Ident: #civ3dem [20:21] 3chat log starts now [20:21] Does the FAM wish to do Nanything before we start? [20:22] downloading save [20:22] lemme double-check... there's a possibility I missed something :rolleyes: [20:22] Heh - which thread will be "official"? :D [20:22] ok, loading up Civ3 and the save [20:22] take your time... [20:22] E_T's thread [20:23] 3Arnelos weeps that he has to take the Two Towers soundtrack of out of his CD-Rom drive to put in Civ3 :( [20:23] LOL [20:25] you can always put it back in when Civ is loaded [20:25] yeah, I know [20:25] (waiting for civ to load... it takes a while) [20:26] Don't I know it.... [20:26] ok, I'm up... gotta check for FAM stuff I might have missed, then I'll give a "ok to end" when I'm ready :b: [20:27] although, you 3could have 0done it while I was at the store] [20:28] 3Arnelos gives a big grin - starting where the music stopped... track 9, "The White Rider" :D :D :D [20:28] done it while I was at the store [20:28] I was just going to window-gawk here. But with so few here, would you two like me to load the save and check stuff? [20:28] that would be great, dejon [20:28] any help is appriciated [20:28] ok... need to concentrate on looking at stuff so we can go to next turn already! :D [20:29] 4CHat starts now [20:30] 6Who cancelled an incense deal with us? [20:30] oh yeah... I'm an idiot - Rome [20:30] yep [20:30] 3looking at re-selling the Incense we WERE selling to Rome [20:31] and they were selling theirs, so I don't know if they have any at the moment [20:32] Persia will buy Medicine for 7LPT... not enough? (it's less than my minimum... but we COULD break that) [20:32] it's up to you [20:33] * BetaHound has joined #civ3dem [20:33] hi [20:33] hello [20:33] Senator Beta here. [20:34] chat just started [20:34] pfft... Persia will only pay 2LPT (of the 7LPT they have) for Incense... no deal [20:34] hey BetaHound :) [20:34] hi - please - carry on. [20:35] 12FAM OK TO END [20:35] (not doing deal with Persia... we'll see what happens) [20:35] are you sure? [20:35] hmmm hold up [20:35] ahh [20:35] what do you all think? [20:36] 7LPT for an industrial age tech... that's a bit low, but most other major powers already have it... so I guess we could justify such a measly price [20:36] we could use the cash flow , we have a LOT of Upgrade to make shortly [20:36] Got save loaded if there's anything I can check, let me know. [20:36] dejon and BetaHound, got an opinion on this? [20:36] I'm too new to the dem game to comment - I'll just listen in if OK. I have not studied the save that well. [20:37] ok [20:37] no prob [20:37] too busy moving warriors around Vox [20:37] E_T, you think we should do it for the cashflow? [20:37] seeing the 10 LPT income... I guess it wouldn't hurt, even for such a pathetic price [20:37] Betahound, in case you don't know, our term for Gold is Lytons and GPT is LPT.... [20:38] Ok - thanks - that explains it [20:38] I would do the trade [20:38] alrighty... we'll do it [20:38] 12Sell Persia Medicine for 7LPT + 15L + their WM [20:38] tell me what to do Mr FAM [20:39] already did [20:40] * Togas has joined #civ3dem [20:40] greetings [20:40] hail Togas [20:40] 4Sold Medicine to Persia for WM; 7LPT & 15L [20:40] hey Togas :) [20:41] I'm also trying to keep a shot log to post with the saves... [20:41] Hi Togas [20:41] * roadcage has joined #civ3dem [20:41] short [20:41] Hi Seņor Togas [20:41] * Aro has joined #Civ3dem [20:41] how much have I missed? [20:41] hi [20:41] Hi Aro (great maps!) [20:41] Togas: only a single trade [20:41] Hi, guys... [20:41] do you want to take over after we go to the next turn? [20:41] Hi roadcage [20:42] have we ended 1250? [20:42] not yet [20:42] 3WE have sold Persia Medicine for a measly 7LPT (we can use the cash and the AI civs would probably sell it at severe loss anyhow) [20:42] So Aggie won't be coming at all? [20:42] any other FAM stuff? [20:42] Aggie is coming in about 1-2 hours [20:42] 12FAM ok to end [20:42] he'll be here later, in about 1/2 hour to 1 1/2 hours [20:43] 4turn ending in 10 [20:43] there's nothing else of worth... everyone is either broke or there are no deals to make [20:43] 4turn ending in 5 [20:43] 41250 ended [20:43] 41250 ended [20:43] * CiverDan has joined #civ3dem [20:43] 1250 :p [20:43] hey [20:43] hey [20:44] we almost ready to strt [20:44] Civer, hi [20:44] start [20:44] hi [20:44] I've got to put a spce there 4 1250 Ended [20:44] 3E_T... make sure to keep a log of between-turn events [20:44] we do any more fightnig this turn? [20:44] or was that fihished already? [20:44] we've just ended 1250... all the fighting for that turn was done by E_T and Aggie last chat [20:45] ok [20:45] You know, if E_T is acting SMC for this chat, it's very good to see him playing the turns. Should save us a lot of time [20:45] that said... the romans will probably attack us between turns (and trigger the MPP's) [20:45] yes [20:45] crossing fingers. [20:45] crossing fingers here, too... [20:46] 4 Babylon & Rome sign an Alliance against us [20:46] figures... [20:46] Babylon?? [20:46] Babylon has just sealed it's death [20:47] gonna but civ3 back in. [20:47] 4 And Babs Declares War! [20:47] duh - that's what an alliance means :p :D [20:47] Babylon has a Wonder. am I right? [20:47] Oooo :) [20:47] 4 China & Rome sign an Alliance against us [20:47] uhoh [20:48] China... It's so far... [20:48] china? [20:48] true [20:48] China is not in the theatre [20:48] World Freakin' War... [20:48] lol [20:48] ok [20:48] Rome is going all out on this war [20:49] this is no biggie... neither Babylon nor China is a threat to anyone. The biggest concern about them entering the war is that either could get wiped out by bigger players who are allied to us (like Russia) [20:49] Throwing everything they can afford at us [20:49] World War I baby! [20:49] Hmm... Babs and China... Not a big deal [20:50] Uber needs more defenders. [20:50] Babylon deserves a punishment. [20:50] Needless to say, my plan to gift cities to the Babs is gone [20:50] I agree [20:50] Gift cities to the Iriqois [20:50] we might see a land there by someone [20:50] 4MPP's start to active: Greece; Iroqouis; England; Russia & Japan [20:50] Yep. Instead, we'll take some cities from the Babs... ;) [20:50] 4all declare War on Rome [20:50] YEAH :) [20:50] Poor Caesar... :D [20:51] little crocodile tears [20:51] lol [20:51] 4Heroic Epic Built in THe Forbidden City [20:51] cool [20:51] Great [20:51] The bestseller of 1250 : The start of the Decline of the Roman Empire :D [20:51] lol [20:52] lol-2 [20:52] I'm concerned that the fighting on Abananaba Minor will be initially in favor of hte Roman-Babylonian Alliance [20:52] 4a couple of WLAD's Celibrated [20:52] Who's not in beside zulu and aztecs? [20:52] GERMANY [20:52] India [20:52] and INDIA [20:52] Persia [20:52] Arnelos: agreed, we need to boost are armed forces quickly [20:52] oh yeah... Persia [20:53] I'm not concerned about US, I'm concerned about the Iroquois getting taken over by Rome, then the Russians [20:53] Babs has no Saltpeter and they just lost Iron, I think [20:53] 4saveing now, will post in a moment [20:53] ok [20:53] the Russian-Iroquois Coalition may not be a match for the Roman-Babylonian Alliance on Abananaba Minor [20:54] Are there any techs and resources that Iriq and Russia need that we can sell them at a discount? [20:54] probably coal and saltpeter... I'll look at that once I get the save [20:54] I think we're already selling Russia saltpeter, though [20:54] Let's make sure they have it, and make sure they have Mil. Tactics & Nationalism. [20:54] Arnelos: I meant we don't have enough forces to put Rome, Babs, and Germany on the defensive all at once. [20:55] precisely... we have to rely on the Iroquois and Russians holding off the Romans themselves for a while... China is irrelevant [20:55] damn ... I should have stayed FAM for one more term. THIS is the fun stuff! [20:55] Togas - I just wish I could sign military alliances more freely... this is a pain not being able to until that ammendment passes [20:56] nod. [20:57] I'm concerned about where India and the Aztecs are going to end up... I could care less if Germany declares on us :evilgrin: [20:58] that said... we have Greece and England on our side on Abananaba Major [20:58] Also had 2 more Rifles show up and one Rifle Razed a Raod in the Forrest clost to Dijon [20:58] 4Save is posted [20:58] ok, getting the save [20:59] downloading [20:59] Arnelos, we tried to sign a MPP with aztecs last chat, but they were asking for something in the neighborhood of 51gpt for it. It was amazingly ridiculous [21:00] im gonna open gm [21:00] Togas - I know... I checked it myself as well [21:00] I'm starting on PW [21:01] I couldn't load the save [21:01] Wait! I believe we will want several workers re-directed to build strong points in the south [21:01] Not a valid save [21:01] Loaded okay for me [21:01] I'm attempting to load right now... [21:02] Now it works. [21:03] 3Arnelos is listening to the Helm's Deep and Hornburg music from the Two Towers Soundtrack while we start our great alliance war :D :D :D [21:03] I loaded the save - it's up now :) [21:03] i loaded it [21:03] same here... [21:03] those stupid Zulus are on our territory again... [21:04] ok... checking stuff for FAM purposes [21:04] two ships [21:04] 4 ships, actually... 2 sets of 2 [21:04] frigate and galley [21:05] ah, yes ... I see the other two below [21:05] I'll handle that after everything else... [21:05] ok [21:05] near solace [21:05] 6We are on Turn D-1 [21:05] Galley and Frigate, two sets [21:05] yeah..other one near AGC [21:05] 6Russia needs Coal and Electricity [21:06] checking in for a second [21:06] Coal is useful for RR construction and ironclads, I believe. [21:06] They have 0 gold... [21:07] 6Iroquois need Coal, Electricty, and Corporation [21:07] Dinner. (AFK) [21:07] * dejon is now known as dejonAFK [21:08] the Zulu are headed back home, they had to wait for their escort... [21:09] The question is whether the Zulus are going to declare war on us anyways... have that Ironclad shadow one of the sets [21:09] 3going back to PW [21:09] OT: How can we change nicks here? [21:09] Do we have a second Ironclad to shadow the other set? [21:09] I'd like to sink both sets of hte the Zulus declare on us [21:10] ARO - change it in the "options" under "File" if you have mIRC [21:10] I thought the Ironclad was to scan the rusky coast [21:10] forget that... we're at war [21:10] looking for roman/bab fleets [21:10] ah, I see [21:10] 1 ironclad?? [21:10] I'm using the java client [21:11] yes, 1 ironclad is all we got [21:11] maybe a RoP with Russia would be a good idea for the war. [21:11] Togas, I was thinking about that myself... [21:11] but I'm unsure about it... with so many of our cities wholly undefended and the AI's propensity to back-stab... [21:12] Rop's with allies but Iroq who don't need it to reach the theatre [21:12] Russia won't backstab us [21:12] I have never seen an AI break rop AND mpp simultaneously [21:13] and speaking of wholly undefended cities... we could afford to spread around a few of our more measly units to put at least SOMETHING in each city, no? [21:13] as long as we are defensive in the south, yes [21:13] Agreed, Arnelos [21:14] Especially those coastal cities within a ship's movement of the fog [21:14] the coastal are not a problem till marines [21:14] we just have to kill ALL landing units.. [21:15] We have 15 undefended cities [21:15] We got lots of fast attackers [21:15] the coastal are A problem if we have no defenders, aren't they? [21:15] bottom line: We need more military units. [21:15] But we have railroads, they need a turn to unload any troops [21:15] no, only units with amphibious capability can attack while unloading [21:16] You're right, Togas [21:16] I agree with Togas... we just need more units - period [21:17] In a world war, maybe we need to change some queues. [21:17] a few ironclads would eb nice [21:17] Is it possible? [21:17] E_T is working on public works at the moment... I'm sure he can take care of queues once he's done with that [21:17] checking back in for a moment [21:17] i would stop us from having to divert units [21:18] 6WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK: How much do the Iroquios and Russia need coal for the war? (railroad construction while fighting) [21:18] we only have one Ironclad at the moment, it's going to head down towars Roman Territyry shortly [21:19] Sign rop's and build it for them in one turn. Give our ex jungle corps something to do [21:20] They don't need it. Reserve the coal [21:20] even one or two just protrolling between uber and russian should be sufficient [21:20] they won't be building any railroads during the fighting [21:20] but I like the idea of us building it for them [21:20] Unless we do it for them [21:21] We have 3 extra coal... the Iroquios and the Russians "need" it and we'd still have 1 extra (in case one depletes). So don't really lose anything if we gift it to them for 20 turns... question is whether it's in our interests to let them build RR's [21:21] It's a good idea. [21:21] I do it frequently (to be able to position artillery) [21:21] I don't like to have any RoP's while we are so poorly defedned, But we might have to, when Greece starts to move [21:21] unless we feel we have have enough cav that kill all landing units with hurting our offensive attack capability [21:21] So, how are they hanging Gen McClellan? [21:21] RoPs with our MPP allies are safe bets [21:21] I don't want to sign RoP's with Greece and England... they''re going to be busy with GERMANY soon enough [21:21] we'll be getting RP in 2 turns, we'll have all of the PW available then [21:22] bb in 10 mins. Need to "prepare" some chicken for dinner. [21:22] roadcage, please don't associate me with THAT failure [21:23] * Panzer32 has joined #civ3dem [21:23] hello all [21:23] hello [21:23] 3back to the last of this turns PW [21:23] hows it going? [21:23] Hi, Panzer [21:23] WORLD WAR ONE [21:23] ooh [21:23] Cool... ;) [21:23] chiina and babs allies with rome against us [21:23] MPP's we activitated [21:23] Well, not completely, there are a few neutrals yet [21:24] were [21:24] Rome+Babylon+China -vs- Apolytonia+England+Greece+Russia+Japan+Iroquios (India, Aztecs, Zululand, and Germany neutral FOR NOW) [21:24] we attacked them? [21:24] No [21:24] they attacked us... activating the MPP's [21:24] ok there was a military alliance against us that activated MPPs. [21:24] right [21:24] Rome signed alliances with China and Babylon (against us) [21:24] i got you now [21:25] what turn? [21:25] 1255 [21:25] The Babs have suicidal tendencies... [21:25] 1250 tween turn [21:25] They have only FOUR cities... [21:25] so no war with Germany yet... [21:25] ...and we'll take those citie soon... ;) [21:25] They will be lucky to survive 5 turns much less 20 turns [21:26] 3We were Babylon's source of Wines+Iron+Dyes... wonder if they're having unrest problems... [21:26] Ninevah should fall quickly [21:26] prob to russians [21:26] btw... the war with Babylon is a big financial problem for us... they were giving us around 40 LPT [21:27] our budget is now -25 LPT (though we have 1099 lytons in the bank) [21:27] ooh [21:27] do we have replacable parts uet? [21:27] this could affect the finances we have for upgrades when we get RP [21:27] 2 turns [21:28] War with Germany will cost us an additional 46 LPT [21:28] Now we have a real problem... [21:28] definatly increase tax after RP [21:28] yup [21:29] We're going to have to milk Greece, England, and Japan for all they are worth [21:29] (and India?) [21:29] After RP, we can down our sci slider [21:29] and the Aztecs if they don't join the wrong side... [21:29] whoring RP might not be such a bad idea... [21:30] I dont think so, Arnelos... [21:30] or it might be [21:30] not until we get tanks [21:30] or another discovers it [21:30] We need to invite the Aztecs to da pahty [21:30] I agree with Panzer [21:31] 4 PW done [21:31] then we can win an offensive war [21:31] When another discovers it, they will whore it and we'll lose our chance [21:31] We're going to financially be deep in the whole unless we whore something valuable [21:31] *hole [21:32] 12E_T, there was a suggestion to change many build queues to military units [21:32] 12I think we need to finish those factories, however... then we'll have all the military units we want [21:32] which Q's [21:32] how much lpt is spent on military? [21:32] nothing specific [21:33] um... I can check that [21:33] 3MILITARY: 238 LPT [21:33] If we have any just started factories.... [21:33] Agreed, I've pushed back the start of some of the other Faclories, to help provide for a few more Mil Units [21:33] ok thx Arnelos [21:33] there are a fwe that wont be completed for 12-13 turns [21:33] Good, E_T [21:33] I'm also considering Drafting from a few cities, once we have RP [21:34] yes, wait for RP to draft [21:34] no draft! [21:34] look... if a conscript is the only unit we can stick in a city... so be it [21:34] whatever... [21:34] we will Draft only fron Cities that ARE NOT building Factoris and are size 8 to 10 [21:34] I'm against draft, usually, but if we need to... [21:35] I usually hate drafting as well... but we are PAINFULLY short on defensive military units (been building so many explorers, canons, and cavalry for the war) [21:35] I talked to Aggie eirlier today and we were leaning with having 1 turn ov full tax (0% Sci) after RP, so that we have enought funds for all of the Cannon Upgrades [21:36] Excellent idea [21:36] well, look at it this way: we won't be spending so much on military when we lose some units ;) [21:36] yes, full tax is good. [21:36] hopefully, we won't lose very many :p [21:36] and the Explores when we do use them [21:37] yes those explorers especially [21:37] well, yeah, the explorers... but that isn't going to have an enormous financial impact [21:37] all of the PW that will be in the War Zones will be natives.... [21:37] We will lost the explorers, right [21:37] * mrmitchell has joined #civ3dem [21:37] E_T... why natives??? [21:37] 4I've got to start on CP stuff [21:37] most of them [21:37] hey mrmitchell [21:37] Why not risk those expendable foreigners :p [21:37] hello, semi-idle here [21:37] Hi mrmitchell! [21:37] 12Start CP then :p [21:38] hey mrmitchell [21:38] because they work faster and if they are captured, wo don't have to support them any longer [21:38] mr m - woof [21:38] hey Betahound, you get my PM? [21:38] bark bark [21:38] (woof.... [21:39] P32 - yup -thinking about it [21:39] thx [21:39] Oh, while I'm gone, we have a Gallion at Whelsh coast that's now upgraded, send it to Tarsus (as part of future Zulu Fleet) or somewhere else? [21:39] 4starting CP [21:40] Yes, send it to Tarsus as originally planned [21:41] We also have a Rush, the Temple at Abandonment, should I go ahead and do it now? [21:41] 116L [21:42] ouch... [21:42] isn't that critical to the warplan, though? [21:42] i think so. [21:42] I think so also [21:42] we dont want it to flip.... [21:42] roadcage... you wanna comment on that? [21:42] Yep, go ahead with the temple [21:43] also to surround Berlin in one turn [21:43] ok, in that case... do it [21:43] Boy... I'm going to inheret a nasty financial situation as president :p [21:43] :D [21:44] back [21:44] It's the normal situation, Arnelos... ;) [21:44] wb togas [21:44] miss anything? [21:45] darn... the slider cannot be tweaked [21:45] It's critical to relocating Stuttgart, (which isn't critical) [21:45] nuts! [21:45] don't think so Togas [21:45] The temple is needed for relocating Stuttgart. Other than that it is not necessary [21:45] hi [21:45] 6So we decided that Russia and the Iroquios do not need coal to build their own RR's... now, do we REALLY NEED to sign RoPs so we can build RR's for them... I don't think we have the military units available to protect that [21:45] * roadcage has quit IRC (Quit: ) [21:46] * roadcage has joined #civ3dem [21:46] The temple is needed for Stutgart Reloc. Other than that it is not needed [21:46] the RoPs will help them fight the Romans in our territory as well as theirs [21:47] but do we need them to fight the romans in our territory? [21:47] it helps. [21:47] 4CP done [21:47] Rome & Baby have RoP [21:48] We need to trust our mpp partners [21:48] 4Confirmed, slider can not be tweeks [21:48] I'm not convinced... there are only 2 roman cities that can reach us... with both Russia and the Iroquois at war with Rome now, the Romans can't reinforce the front [21:48] true [21:49] this means that we can easily fight off what little there is of a Roman attack and leave the rest to our allies to handle on their own while we concentrate on Germany [21:49] * Retrieving #civ3dem info... [21:49] I don't see a compelling need for any ROPs [21:49] me neither [21:50] 4 is it O.k. to do the Rush, DM says yes [21:50] Could the iroqs and russia deal with rome? I don't know. [21:50] 12Do the Rush of the temple, it's cool [21:50] Aro... they could, but then if Rome ever attacked us again, it would just re-activate the MPP's [21:50] Frankly, I don't think the Iriqs and Russia can deal with Rome without our aid to some extent [21:51] 4 Temple Rushed for 116L [21:51] and if we had access to their territory we could do some great Russian sabbatage and quick strikes [21:51] 3do we have any FAM stuff? [21:51] The risk is Rome conquest them [21:51] We will need to help in the south [21:51] Togas... that might be true, but we're going to be too busy with Germany at first... once England+Greece+Us eliminate Germany... then we can turn our full attention toward Rome... until then, they just need to hold them off [21:51] I don't think Rome will conquer them that quickly [21:52] Do we want to have a RoP with Greece, they will be sending Units soon [21:52] they ARE still using legionnaries [21:52] Rome will have lost a large number of troops against US in their futile attack... hopefully that will knock off enough to allow the Russians and Iroqiuos enough time to resist while we handle matters up north [21:52] We'll save ourselves a lot of trouble if we get involved against Rome now, instead of trying to save Russia 10 turns from now [21:52] Legions can't be upgraded [21:52] Greece is going to be attacking Germany [21:53] If nothing bombard the bejesus out of Brudesium [21:53] o.k., no prob, [21:53] we can do that W/O a RoP [21:53] ROP with Greece, so they can at least get to Germany [21:53] We can bring in our cannons and blow the heck out of Roman positions, then let our allies mop up. All in a few turns. [21:53] yup [21:53] I honestly don't think Russia is going to crumble that fast... [21:53] There is zero risk of russian or iriq betrayal. Zero [21:53] Rome just lost 10 riflemen to us... they're about to lose 6+ more [21:54] greece can get to gemany w/o RoP [21:54] We gain the benefit of being able to move in and out of the theatre of war [21:54] ok never mind [21:54] Ephesus -->Cologne [21:55] My point is that Roman losses against us from their incredibly stupid invasion may well be enough that they don't have the necessary extra force to immediately take on Russia (while Russia has a whole bunch of Cossacks to send after Rome) [21:55] Russia had GA yet? [21:55] yes, go Cossacks!! [21:55] My point is that there's no danger, and it gives us the ability to play an active role in the war down there, instead of a passive role. [21:56] and if Russia gets their GA in the proces... well, shoot [21:56] it will just help them against Rome [21:56] Let them spend the booty of their GA upon Roman troops [21:56] * Aro has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [21:56] I guess what I'm saying is that I want all the RoP's timed with each other... if we defeat Germany first and we still have to keep fighting Rome, we might want to sign RoPs with Greece and England at the same time as Russia and the Iroquios so everyone can take them out together [21:57] That's a valid point [21:57] posting a close up of the area around Hole in the Wall [21:57] * Aro has joined #Civ3dem [21:57] Since we aren't gong to have the units to spare on Rome now ANYWAYS, we might as well wait until we sign the rest of the RoPs [21:58] and I'm hoping the DM provides us enough defensive military units to defend all of our cities by then so we don't have to worry as much about backstabing :p :D [21:58] How many workers are left to use this turn? [22:00] E_T? [22:00] no PW is available this turn, we did build a RR under the Cannon & Rifle at HitW #5, closer to the Roaman Boarder, the next one will be next turn [22:00] WHAT!!!!! [22:00] picture is up [22:01] E_T: Shell the cr*p out of those Romans and then wipe them out... all of them [22:01] :D [22:01] what, roadcage? [22:01] PW is very tight for this turn, we can loosen up some next turn, we have 8 Natives that will be a reserve for the SMC [22:02] SMC stuff Connencing [22:02] How fcould there be ZERO workers left? Our land development is so far ahead of our pop that MOST of the 80 or so should be available, but we only need about 20 [22:02] I agree [22:02] E_T is way too wrapped up on his public works projects [22:03] E_T, when you become SMC, I bet your priorities will change a bit ;) [22:03] We should have 4 Major factories by now instead of 2. [22:03] he's planning to make an autobahn after we conquor Germany [22:03] 3 Cannon shots from HitW to the Reg Rifle, takes it down by 3, Cav rush? [22:03] * dejonAFK is now known as dejon [22:03] Back. [22:03] or an Elite Knight? [22:03] wb Dejon [22:04] I vote for the Cav, but whatever [22:04] Save the elite knight for a unit with a low defensive value [22:04] i agree [22:04] Yes, use the Cav [22:04] it's got 1 point left [22:04] Cav [22:04] The whole point here is to get our veterans to BECOME elites so that we can use them in the German war [22:04] k. Vet Cav it is [22:04] Yes, vet cav [22:04] Still 1255?? I was gone for an hour! [22:05] E_T took forever on PW orders :p :) [22:05] and... [22:05] and...? [22:05] 4 Cav wins with no loss, becomes Elite [22:05] good deal [22:05] yes! [22:05] yep! [22:05] woohoo [22:06] firing Cannon at the Reg Rifle at HitW #15 [22:06] We'll see another GL soon... ;) [22:06] That GL = Hoover [22:06] yes! [22:07] 43 Cannon, no effect [22:07] 43?!? [22:07] No, too far away use for US or ToE [22:07] 4 3 cannon, no effect, Cav Rush [22:07] crossing fingers... [22:07] Use all the Ccannon every thrn as long as they are on the rail grid [22:08] I agree with roadcage... just keep using cannons until you wound that thing [22:08] bringin up 2 more Cannon [22:08] good [22:08] Don't forget the ones up north [22:08] Did Russia enter the war on either side? [22:08] Russia is on OUR side [22:08] Good, thanks. [22:09] 4 the 6th cannon on that guy finnaly hits, sheesh. Doing Cav noe [22:09] We have over 20 cannon! [22:10] 4and... [22:10] and...? [22:10] Fire them at Roman rifles [22:10] 4 defeats Rifle with no wounds, but still a Vet [22:10] Well... it's good enough [22:11] ;) [22:11] This Roman invasion ranks up there with some of the stupidest things I've seen the AI do in this game. [22:11] AS= Artificial Stupidity [22:11] wow, we're doing better than I expected considering cav attacking rifle is 6-6. [22:12] 4Moving Cannon to Dijon #8, will fire on the ones in the trees (Raze My Iprovements, I'll show you) [22:12] Cannos... Wonderful things! [22:12] That's what cannons are for :D :D :D [22:12] lol @ E_T :D [22:12] Cannonfire is like airline seats. Use em or loose em [22:13] * Kloreep has joined #civ3dem [22:13] Hi. [22:13] Hi, Kloreep [22:13] hi Kloreep [22:13] I don't remember who joined with me when I kept arguing (over an over again) that cannons would be the secret to our success.... but thank you for siding with me on that one :b: :b: :b: [22:13] Nice turnout for this chat. :) [22:13] 4 first 3 shots takes the 2 in the trees down by one each, working on the 3rd [22:14] Greetings to my fellow party members. :) [22:14] E_T... see if you can get them down to 1 hp each (if not, oh well) [22:14] Greetings! ;) [22:14] yeah... your whole frickin' party is here other than the leader :lol: [22:14] 44 shots, 3 hot and I'm sending a Cav to finish him. An Elite this time, in trees? [22:14] You have to admit we're active. :) [22:14] I'm the vice-chairman ;) [22:14] 3E_T... go for it [22:15] besides Shiber [22:15] Horses don't navigate tress very well... [22:15] oh yeah... your membership expanded with Kloreep [22:15] Yeah, Shiber isn't here. [22:15] 4 Elite Cav attack the 1/4 Vet at Dijon #18 and.... [22:15] pfft, if the defender has only 1 hp, we should be fine [22:15] That's two who aren't here. [22:16] and..,? [22:16] If you Labor guys add another person or two, you could be the leading political party [22:16] 4 lost two points, but killed him, no GL [22:16] Togas... depends on whether you count all those DIA lurkers ;p [22:16] yes, join us Togas... don't be afraid... [22:16] I don't count lurkers ;) [22:16] lol [22:17] 4a few mor cannon to soften the other 2... [22:17] Don't join the commies :p [22:17] :) [22:17] Labor, to me = Liberal. Not really my thing :) [22:17] We're not commies. :p [22:17] liberal would actually be to their RIGHT :p [22:17] I thought you guys were National Socialists? [22:17] 4and they miss [22:18] no thats NAZIs [22:18] Some of us may lean that way, yes, but I want to stick with Democracy. [22:18] it seems that they've put more emphasis on the SOCIALIST than the nationalist ;p [22:18] Where's Tassadar when we need him? ;) [22:18] Lean towards commie, that is, not Nazi! [22:18] Yeah, I'm sure Tassadar would join. :) [22:18] whatever happened to his party? [22:19] Not exactly as left-wing as he would want, but more active than his dead party. :) [22:19] but NAZI translated is national socialist (doesn't fit well though) [22:19] Arnelos - is panag going to drop by? (this turnchat) [22:19] I highly doubt it [22:19] well..im gonna go [22:20] its late over there [22:20] that's all of the Cannon, except for ones on Defensive watch, up north [22:20] bye CD [22:20] Bye CiverDan [22:20] * CiverDan has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [22:20] 4Attacking wioth a Vet Cav [22:20] Hi... have a nice day... [22:20] Shiber and panag are probably both not here because it's the middle of the night there right now [22:21] 4Cav down by 2, but killed him. 1 more left. More Cav [22:21] hhmpf. Timezones. Why can't everyone just operate on EST? :P [22:21] and.... [22:21] 12E_T... do you see that Roman Legionary on the hill 2nw of Novgorod? [22:21] And...? [22:21] 4and... , one second [22:22] Looks like Rome is attacking Novograd [22:22] it's in the FoW, how do you see him? [22:22] with a -legionary- LOL [22:22] Why doesn't everyone just operate on central? It has that name for a reason. ;) [22:22] pfft [22:23] I don't, just responding to what others said. I don't even have the game up now [22:23] or they had a RoP and it expired with the MPP activating... [22:23] bbl. Need to eat. [22:23] will idle a bit [22:23] so would it be uncivilized for we labor reps to filibuster the turn chat??? [22:23] * Togas is now known as TogasIDLE [22:23] E_T... I'm playing along... when the cavalry rushed the Roman Rifle at HiW#5, I saw it [22:23] Excuse me, #6 [22:23] 4Vet Cave Attack the last Rifle, and.... [22:23] ok... not #6... is that #15? [22:24] and...? [22:24] 4lost one point, but killed that last in our territory [22:24] BetaHound... we have a private cabinet room :p [22:24] Beta: Yes, I think so. :) [22:24] How many rifles did we kill? [22:24] Be sure to cover our Cannon [22:24] I can understand your urge to let loose and bark, though. ;) [22:25] lol [22:25] 5 I think [22:25] k. I see it, a Leagionary [22:25] covering cannon shouldn't be a problem... we have enough riflemen [22:25] I didn't think it would be a problem [22:25] yep, moving Defenses now [22:25] 1 solitary legionary... how stuipd [22:25] *stupid [22:26] I can see it now... Russia gets its Golden Age by stomping on that pathetic Roman legionary with their Russian Cossack :D :D :D [22:26] Rome hasn't won any legion battles yet, has it? [22:27] At least, not to our knowledge? [22:27] not that I know of... [22:27] don't risk them winning one [22:27] don't attack with elite knight [22:27] lol [22:28] 4 SMC stuff done, any FAM? [22:28] Not until they've been bombarded back to the Ancient Age, at least. [22:28] 12lol... lemme check [22:28] Oh, wait, legions ARE ancient age. ;) [22:28] hehe [22:29] 6WE CAN SELL COAL -OR- ELECTRICITY TO RUSSIA FOR 23LPT !!!!! which one do people want? [22:29] The problem with running this is that I cant stop and have a Cigarette :( [22:30] Coal expires Electricity doesn't [22:30] Coal [22:30] coal. [22:30] we are thinking of your health - E_T [22:30] Plus if they Renig, they loos it,... [22:30] Bah [22:31] Don't barter with them, just take their first offer [22:31] Lol... I'm a smoker too... [22:31] yes sell it [22:31] coal that is [22:31] and we smoke outide th ehouse [22:31] proof that Civ3 is good for you - like tofu and broccoli [22:31] I agree, coal sounds better [22:31] I'm on my studio... ;) [22:32] Term 8 Advertisement : Run for SMC - it is good for your health! :) [22:32] lol [22:32] lol [22:32] he means being acting president :p [22:32] Well, when that save is posted, I'm going to take a Quick one, about 1/2, just a few puffs..... [22:32] especially now with the war [22:32] 6E_T... you know that as acting president, you can take a break and there's little we can do about it (other than whine, of course) [22:33] ROFLMAO [22:33] dogs can whine very well [22:33] But we're all SOOO good at whining - think twice! [22:33] lol! [22:33] aroooooooo!!!! [22:33] 12Sell Russia Coal for 23LPT + their WM [22:34] E_T - as long as you have some CHEESE to go with our WHINE, you'll make the most of it :P [22:34] Hi, BetaHound! [22:34] yo [22:34] Burnt yet, Aro? [22:34] Question Mr FAM, do we want to include the Saltpeter that is up for Renegote, too? [22:35] trade Russia our whines for 23 LPT [22:35] You mean CHHEESE [22:35] it is??? how did I miss that - HOLD OFF ON DEAL [22:35] hee hee [22:35] BetaHound, they don't burned me yet... But they will! [22:36] I'll be our 1st martyr! [22:36] stay cool, Aro!! [22:36] 12I know why I missed it... you guys let it ride [22:36] 12lemme look at the Russia deal again... [22:36] burned? What about? [22:36] that's right, and if they are tapped out at 23, then we should leavit [22:37] getting Coffie, BRB [22:37] Panzer, see the Party's thread... :) [22:37] 6RUSSIA HAS THEIR OWN SOURCE OF SALTPETER NOW (and we'd only get 30 LPT rather than 31 LPT) [22:38] Coffee? - He's smoking! Commence whining! [22:38] k [22:38] gotta go. Sleep. Not cigarettes. Thanks for my first turn chat. Lots of action. Good war. woof woof woof [22:38] However... they could cancel that saltpeter at any time... we sacrifice 1 LPT to make it all on the coal deal, but that's better than waiting to lose the 8 LPT from the saltpeter deal [22:38] cya BH [22:38] oh right, BH [22:38] Bye, BetaHound! [22:38] bye [22:38] I'm not smoking , yet [22:38] chow- I mean ciao [22:38] Bye BetaHound! [22:38] 6So it's 30 LPT from Coal -OR- 23 LPT from coal and 8 LPT from saltpeter (which could disapear at any time) [22:38] * BetaHound has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:39] 30 LPT from coal [22:39] 12Cancel Saltpeter deal with Russia. Sign Coal deal for 30 LPT + their WM [22:39] If they have thier own, they must be selling it, or it would have not been avaiable, so it won't dissapear [22:40] yes, but we have no guarantee that it won't in the future... and it's only 1 LPT [22:40] and it frees up a saltpeter [22:40] o.k., making deal... [22:40] (not that that's worth much anymore) [22:40] still goo for Cav [22:40] tanks will make cav obsolete not very far off... [22:41] but yeah, for now... [22:41] bye all, time for bed... [22:42] bye panzer [22:42] bye, Panzer [22:42] cya panzer [22:42] Bye Panzer. [22:42] * Panzer32 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [22:42] 12That really helped the financial situation... only -2 LPT income now [22:43] We're still going to lose 46 LPT when we declare on Germany, though [22:43] 4 Canceled Saltpeter Deal with Russian and sold them Coal for 30LPT & WM [22:44] I show -4LPT [22:44] Woah... Edrix got on my ignore list somehow. [22:44] must be some stuff you changed in the WF [22:44] I don't think I've ever even accessed that page; what the heck? [22:44] Kloreep, same here... I think Ming must have done it [22:44] Yes, I did move a couple around [22:44] Who is that? [22:45] any more stuff, Mr. FAM? [22:45] 12FAM ok to end (we had a lot of good discussion on FAM stuff this turn :b: ) [22:45] Ming's a moderator. (You probably knew that. :) ) Edrix joined the demogame a while ago, but he hasn't posted in quite a while. [22:45] I hate to think that the Aztecs or India could enter the war... but my hands our tied [22:45] 4 Ending turn in 10 [22:46] I've never seen Edrix. No one on my ignore list. [22:46] 4Ending Turn in 5 [22:46] 4 Ending 1255 now [22:46] 12E_T... keep a log of between-turn events :b: [22:47] . [22:48] I don't know where is that ignore list... [22:48] At the current burn rate per turn, this chat will take another 8 hours! [22:48] 4Germany Want to Cancell Spice Deal [22:48] 14LPT [22:48] let 'em [22:48] 12CANCEL DEAL [22:49] War is an expensive hobby... [22:49] Aro: You can access your ignore list in the control panel section. [22:49] I'll try [22:49] Hmmm... Edrix doesn't show up in my ignore list, so it must be a bug. [22:50] or perhaps the mods made it so that a single post was marked to be ignored? who knows... post it in the help area [22:50] I found a thread in the Community forum... seems it's a known bug. [22:50] 4 told him to go find some spice elsewhere. Aztecs are building US [22:50] No one in my IL... :) I have no enemies. [22:51] No one in my list either. :) Which makes it even stranger... [22:51] I do have TWO blank boxes, though. How many blanks do you have? [22:51] Two blanks [22:52] Is two boxes not normal? I've never used it before. [22:52] I haven't used it before, so I don't know if it's normal. [22:53] 4 and we are in 1260.... [22:53] 6Russia and Persia both demanded spices a few turns ago... we'll have to see if they still demand it and what they're willing to pay :) [22:54] E_T: I'm sure you'll have time for drag whilst we d'l and load the save... :) [22:54] yeah, that's a good point :) [22:54] I think we just tapped russia and persia [22:54] 1 turn left to RP [22:54] * Jonny1 has joined #civ3dem [22:55] Infantry is one of the best units of the game [22:55] roadcage, I know... but there's always a POSSIBILITY that Russia just got their GA (if their GA didn't already start and accounts for the 20 LPT jump in income last turn) [22:55] Hi, Jonny [22:55] Hey Jonny! :D [22:55] hello all [22:56] Posting the Save [22:56] thank you (mark in red) [22:56] * mrmitchell has quit IRC (Quit: ) [22:56] I wasn't popoing it, just trying to set realistic expectations [22:56] ok :) [22:56] Hi Jonny. [22:56] Jonny, Founder of the Culture Party ;) [22:57] 4 Save is now posted, I'm going to have a Quick Cig....you can commence wineing now.... [22:57] lol [22:57] I know we need lpt but there should be more lucrative places to look for it. [22:57] 12FAM going through the slow process of getting the save [22:57] I prefer a Shiraz, how about the rest of you? :) [22:58] Save loaded [22:58] ah, the culture party... those were the days [22:59] :) [22:59] Jonny, check out the edit I did of the memberlist in our DIA party thread ;) [23:00] * TogasIDLE is now known as Togas [23:00] back [23:00] WB Togas. [23:00] hey Togas [23:00] wb, Togas [23:00] anything new? [23:00] What, no wine connoissseurs here? [23:00] The culture party lasted about 2 days [23:01] New save posted. [23:01] I saw that when I read all those old threads... so? ;) [23:01] ah, the rush of Nicotine.... [23:02] back [23:02] lol... wb, E_T [23:02] 4 Starting PW now [23:02] what you did with the memberlist is good [23:03] My finacec have made me buy 305's recently. I nomally sole Marlboro Mediums..... [23:03] Oh, I noticed that Panag isn't in the Civ3DG Group [23:04] Thanks, Jonny [23:04] Really? [23:04] LOL. [23:04] LOL [23:05] Embassies are in the directory! Yay! [23:06] I noticed that caesarqbear is in your list, Arnelos... and I need a hand in the map job...;) [23:06] need 8 workers for southern press gang [23:08] . [23:08] What? Senator Palpatine isn't in the list! :D [23:09] wow, panag is up by 3 votes [23:09] pfft [23:09] The Most annoying city to capture award goes to: Reading (English) [23:10] I dunno about the panag appointment. It's an interesting political dilema [23:10] That's one way to put it, Togas. ;) [23:10] lol [23:10] Lol... [23:10] I was going to say "landmine" but I backspaced a bit ;) [23:11] Oh, take a look at the Greek Boarder, they are moving towards Rome..... [23:11] I resisted getting involved in the Israeli debate - too hot. [23:12] Yeah, that's the worst flaming I've seen in the Demogame forum in a while. [23:12] Give 'em a RoP soon :) [23:12] Shiber quoted me at one point...it took some real restraint to not respond. [23:13] Who? The Ruskies or the Israelis? [23:13] In my defense, while I KNEW that panag wouldn't be a popular choice with quite a number of people, I had no idea of the sheer level of -personal animosity- that apparently exists for him from Shiber [23:13] Yeah, there does seem to be bad blood between them. Don't know what it's about, though. [23:13] Shiber's always been super opinionated about everything. I don't think this is all that different [23:13] I think they know eachother [23:14] quite frankly... Shiber has done more to HELP panag than hurt him [23:14] I find panag annoying sometimes, but he can also be humorous; I don't bear him any ill will. :) [23:14] Israel is a little country, after all [23:14] I've seen Shiber snipe on Panag's comments in past threads. I think Panag's obtuseness and silliness bother's Shiber's focused and opinionated style [23:15] And we now know why it is imperative to attend these turn chats [23:15] * Aro has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [23:16] Sorry Aro, still not much different than thinking I must know Ninot. :) [23:17] * Aro has joined #Civ3dem [23:17] 12OK, back to business, folks... [23:17] WB Aro. [23:17] Darn, A Russian moved on to the Tracks to HitW, I have to use some of the SMC Reserve.... [23:17] Hi, again... [23:17] 6WE have to renegotiate all the peace agreements this turn... this is D-TURN, but we now want to delay war for 2 turns... so what do we do about the peace renegotiations (we were originally going to package a few with military alliances if needed)? [23:17] The russian wants to go to the front. Help him [23:18] 6And what do we do about renegotiation of peace with GERMANY? [23:18] wait 2 turns [23:18] let it ride [23:18] Let them ALL ride? [23:18] What if they want to reneg peace? [23:18] In the past we did this to get all of the peace terms on the same schedule [23:18] With luck, they will declare [23:18] Is there anything attached to peace? [23:18] lemme check... in most cases not (I have a list of this) [23:19] they won't ask to reneg peace unless there's a deal attached, and even then they might be happy to just let it ride [23:20] Germany pays us 6LPT for peace, Japan pays us 1 LPT for peace, Iroquois pay us 8 LPT for peace, all other peace treaties are "free" [23:20] they'll be happy to let it ride [23:20] Iroquois may ask, but we'll obviously just renegotiate with them (we need that alliance) [23:20] If they pay us 6 LPT for peace, there's a good chance they'll reneg. [23:21] Are we ready to go to war this turn? [23:21] Is there a resource we can trade the Iroq for lpt? [23:21] I say that if they want to reneg, we go to war (if we're ready) [23:21] I think that, after 20 turns, they stop paying as everything goes defacto peace. [23:21] roadcage, more than one [23:21] Do they have coins? [23:21] lemme check [23:21] Also, shouldn't we move a sacrificial unit next to some of their units on the border? That way, they can trigger our MPPs on turn one. :) [23:22] Togas: I think they have to continue paying if there's no reneg. [23:22] Good thing I had planned to build that backup road this turn.... [23:22] 6Iroquios have 1 LPT + 31 L in the bank [23:22] Otherwise, I don't see why the AI would reneg peace with GPT attached in my games. [23:22] doesn't seem like much [23:23] Frankly, we never tested it. We just automatically reneg'd 'em all every 20 turns. [23:23] 3if the peace deals no not have LPT attached, we can let them ride and renegote when we want to [23:24] 12checking peace renegs with money attached [23:24] 6Iroquios will renegotiate for everything they have (all 9 LPT, meaning the 8 LPT they're already paying AND the 1 LPT they have in the bank) [23:24] we can let it ride safely, I believe [23:24] lemme check Germany [23:25] 3 caught up, back to PW.... [23:25] 6Germany will pay us 7 LPT rather than the current 6 LPT if we renegotiate... it's probably safe to ride [23:25] Well, I'm afraid I have to leave now [23:25] nod [23:25] Maybe. [23:25] Bye Jonny. [23:25] as for the 1 LPT from Japan... whatever [23:25] cya Jonny [23:25] bye, jonny [23:26] But we can have a sacrificial unit anyway? :) [23:26] Mid-Term Exams tommorow :) [23:26] Good luck. :) [23:26] good luck [23:26] thanks [23:26] * Jonny1 has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:27] I'll be the next... ten minutes more, it's late here... [23:27] Hard work tomorrow... ;) [23:28] * aggie has joined #civ3dem [23:28] hi aggie [23:28] hello [23:28] look who's here [23:28] Aggie! Welcome [23:28] Hi aggie. :) [23:28] i made it, just eating dinner now [23:28] whats happening [23:28] PW [23:28] what year [23:28] 1260 [23:28] ok [23:29] let me get the save [23:29] BTW, has anyone seen Spiffor around the chat or elsewhere? [23:29] His last post was on the 13th, but he said he'd be back today... [23:29] 6Aggie... it is D-Turn... many MPP's activated against Rome... it's a multi-front war on both sides now [23:30] 6Rome+Babylon+China -vs- Apolytonia+Greece+England+Japan+Russia+Iroquios (India, Aztecs, Zululand, and Germany neutral for now) [23:30] alright, i had forgotten about 5 turn things i thouht it was the next turn:) [23:30] 6This turn is the original D-TURN, but we're letting peace deals ride and waiting 2 turns for war [23:30] good idea [23:30] i'll eat and take over next turn [23:30] brb [23:30] afk [23:30] ok, sounds good. E_T is currently doing PW+WF [23:30] Germany is paying us some LPT (not all they would if we reneged, though), so we might have to declare now. [23:31] true, I forgot to mention that [23:31] I doubt he'd disagree with declaring if they do reneg, though. :) [23:31] Just let it ride, we don't have to declare war if we don't reneg [23:33] 3checking in, still have a bit of PW to do... [23:33] Aggie [23:34] * manicstarseed has joined #civ3dem [23:34] 3 Back to the last of the PW [23:35] How much is left of this chat? [23:35] Hi MSS. [23:35] *wave to all* [23:35] We're in 1260, the original D-turn. [23:35] But we're going to see if we can delay two turns. (Germany might reneg peace and force us to declare anyway, though.) [23:35] Hi, MSS [23:36] MSS - welcome! [23:36] A few turns [23:36] ok...Ill be here for another 20 minutes as Iam a diehard 24 fan [23:37] Otto might seeing as we are at war, he might see achance with a 2 front war [23:37] might eve sign an alliance with roman pigs [23:37] we've been hoping he's that stupid for a few turns now - no luck on that so far ;p [23:38] hehe [23:38] btw... I agree with Kloreep that we should stick a sacrificial unit on the German border to active the MPP's if Germany is as dumb as Rome [23:38] Wow. An idea of mine might actually be followed. :D [23:39] In all fairness, I'm sure this isn't the first time :p [23:39] How about that glorious longbow from the past? [23:39] * dejon is now known as dejonAFK [23:39] Probably not. :) I don't attend turnchats that often, though, nor am I a great contributor in strategy threads. [23:40] Wasn't the longbow sacrificed to Rome? [23:40] It looked that way, but apparently he got moved when E_T did Abandonment [23:40] do we have any leftover muskets? [23:41] Don't sacrifice muskets! They can be upgraded! [23:41] hell, does an explorer work or do we not have enough of those to spare one? [23:41] yah et moved the lb since the mpp would activate reagrdless if they attacked, i actually learned something I thought they had to attack a unit of ours apparently not [23:41] Besides, I think we've finally got all our defenders upgraded. :) [23:41] Nice MMPs activated [23:41] I think we have a few swordsmen, but they're elite. [23:42] Togas... it would be cool if we got a GL from a defending sworsdmen, though (if the sword survived the whole turn) - LOL [23:42] I thought they had to attack too... [23:42] So what DID trigger our MPPs? [23:42] I'm sure it was that they attacked... my impression is that they have to attack, no? [23:42] the attack of our troops [23:43] Really? [23:43] Interesting. [23:43] ET did an experiment during a chat with us and kloreep and the mpp activated, we used the zulu situation asa a test [23:43] They did not attack. One rifle did pillage, but that was AFTER the mpp's activated [23:43] From our Heroic Epic, we'd be singing songs about those glorious swordsmen for ages to come if they defended against riflemen :p [23:43] Still, if we do have to declare war before the new D-turn, it'll be between turns, so sacrificing a unit will give some nations a chance to soften Germany up before us. [23:43] since that wasn't palyinahead [23:44] besides only Japan had an mmp with rome [23:44] with germany it willbe different though [23:44] I was there??? I don't remember. I knew I don't have the greatest short term memory, but long term... :scared: [23:44] it was during the senate chat, sorry it was zeit [23:45] we are negative in cash flow [23:45] Oh, okay. :) [23:45] yeah, we know... there's been significant discussion about it [23:45] (negative cashflow) [23:45] nod [23:45] The German war will mean -30 LPT more [23:45] its a necessary evil [23:45] we get RP this go and then back down the slider [23:45] RP in one turn, correct? (I still haven't installed a dual 1.21 Civ3) [23:45] we can afford it [23:46] yeah, we can [23:46] we have 965g and we're losing -22gpt [23:46] sure, but sci meth will be delayed a bit [23:46] any cities get taken near us during the war [23:46] Wow, we're close to 1000... we better keep it there once we get Wall Street. [23:46] next turn we should trade maps with Rome to see if anything has changed. [23:47] I mean Russia [23:47] :) [23:47] Wasn't Vladivostok in Roman hands previously? [23:47] Ill check [23:47] I thought they got it somehow (maybe culture flip). [23:48] for as long as I can remember, there's been that odd crossed border where Rome, Iriquois, and Russia share a common point. [23:48] As of 1250 yes [23:49] yes its been there for a while [23:49] ok because if any cities fall on the border we must attack them immediately [23:50] 4 PW is done except for the 4 I have left for SMC Reserve [23:50] oops I am wrong, 1250 was still russia [23:50] Are we planning to attack Brundisium? [23:51] 12E_T... I'm checking FAM stuff [23:51] Because if we are... that'll give the Iroquis a border with us. [23:51] i think it was et's plan as acting SMC to wait to see how german war goes since that attack WILL need cannon/artillery and that would take it away from the german attcak [23:51] 6GREECE HAS ESPIONAGE [23:51] we oughta take Brundisium and Syracuse as war reparations [23:51] cool. Let's get it. [23:52] so does Germany [23:52] Good thing we didn't research it, then. :) [23:52] 6Russia has it, but needs Electricity (I smell a deal) [23:53] yup, don't even have to pay for it (though electricity is much more valuble...) lemme check for other potential deals [23:53] sniff, sniff, so do I.... [23:54] Brundisium will give us another Incense lux, too... We should definitely take it. :) The only question is when. [23:54] about the best we can get out of Russia for Elec = Espionage & WM. They have 0gold and will not offer GPT [23:54] 6Russia is best deal for Espionage... Espionage+WM for Electricity [23:55] lol, crosspost [23:55] we seem to do that too much [23:55] LOL. That's what happens when you put the FAM and a former FAM together. :) [23:55] not as much as adaMada and I have (and very famously) [23:55] 4 Because, I see no need for the SMC PW reserve for this turn, I'm using them [23:55] sounds good [23:56] wait [23:56] We had an entire election because of a crosspost [23:56] roadcage.... what? [23:56] rail sw of the current end of how line [23:56] 3DM must potty, BRB [23:56] Maybe you got it from Adamada ... he and I tend to think the same. [23:56] Yeah, the election crosspost was pretty funny. :) [23:56] 12E_T - roadcage has a PW suggestion when you get back [23:56] Really want a fort there too, but need 5 and only got 4 [23:57] So, are we doing the sacrificial unit? :) [23:57] What you guys didn't see was that we crossposted PM's as well :p [23:57] once rail is there, have some cav's move over border pillage and return [23:57] 4 Too late, it can wait till next turn, sorry [23:57] I informed him by PM that I was running at the same time he was writing the PM to me (he got my PM first) [23:58] With RP, well have plenty of PW free for next turn [23:58] 9pm PST... 24 Will be back in an hour [23:59] lol - ok, MSS [23:59] ;) [23:59] Cya, MSS [23:59] 12E_T, lemme know when you're ready for FAM [23:59] * manicstarseed has quit IRC (Quit: ) [23:59] Roadcage, that Rail to the South of HitW has been done, It was in the orders that I had originally posted.... [00:00] 4 Ready Mr, FAM [00:00] So, are we doing the sacrificial unit? (If orders are still happening, I assume ET was referring to roadcage's suggestion rather than mine.) [00:00] ok want fort there next turn [00:01] 12Trade Russia Electricity for Espionage + their WM [00:01] (that's the best deal) [00:01] k, we'll look at it [00:02] 4doing trade... [00:02] The Longbowmen near HiW would be great; North of Abandonment looks like a good spot for it. [00:02] Should we start building Langley? [00:02] good. we can quickly check Russia's map for any conquest updates [00:03] I'll miss the D-turn... :( I need to sleep. See you, guys... and good war! ;) [00:03] Bye Aro. We'll record a shell explosion for you. :) [00:03] Repeat: Should we start building Langley (or, more properly, the "George H.W. Bush Center for Intelligence" ;) [00:03] :) [00:04] 4 Traded Techs with Russia: WM; Espionage for Electricity [00:04] Perhaps we should call it the Shadow Service [00:04] lol [00:04] LOL [00:04] Meshelic would like that. [00:04] pfft [00:04] On the other hand, I think he's denying its existance right now. [00:04] The Apolytonian Intelligence Agency would be more dignified :p [00:04] You like to say "pfft", don't you? ;) [00:05] we still need to start on WS, let's get some Factories up and a few Units out before we explore IA [00:05] I get it from a friend of mine :p [00:05] tsk, tsk... ;) [00:05] it's the sound you make when you're scoffing something :) [00:05] 3any more FAM? [00:05] 12FAM ready to end (I didn't find anything else... we're letting peace deals ride -crosses fingers- ) [00:06] no prob 4 Doing CP now.... [00:06] Bye, everybody. [00:06] * Aro has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) [00:06] cya Aro :) [00:06] doh [00:07] In the U.S., we actually have SEVERAL different intelligence agencies, the CIA is just the main one. There's a "National Intelligence Council" which mirrors the National Security Council. [00:11] . [00:11] 3Ghengistown is now at full output - 53 Shields per turn, after Waste.... [00:12] wow... no-one posted while I was AFK for the past 5 minutes!?!?! [00:12] very good and i see several factories are almost complete [00:12] E_T, that's AWESOME [00:12] I just posted. :p [00:12] (chuckle) [00:14] 3 it will be approx 10 to 11 turns before we have the ToE built at Ghengistown [00:14] Woohoo! Go ET! [00:15] should take us about 1/2 that to research it [00:15] if we time it right, we can get a new tech the turn before ToE is build, then have ToE give us 2 more. [00:15] earlier we discussed go 0% research next turn to get the money to upgrade artillery [00:15] Togas: precisely :D [00:15] then goin for SM [00:16] After we get ToE, what's the next tech? [00:16] 12E_T... how is CP coming? [00:16] Hoover Dam here we come. :) [00:16] Kloreep - yup :D :D :D [00:16] Refining would be nice. [00:17] 3I have a Rush planed for this turn, THe Marketplase at Heliopolis, last Prebuild before IW - 248L [00:17] Steel looks a little cheaper, but I don't know if it's also cheaper in 1.21 [00:17] bee-line for Electronics... then we can use ToE to get Radio (more valuable)? [00:17] Hmm... that's an interesting idea. [00:17] (because ToE would get us Electronics+Radio) [00:18] That's how I do it in single-player [00:18] but I'm weird :p [00:18] 3 DM say's it's o.k. to rush, everybody else? [00:18] Atomic theory is one of the costlier techs in SP, IIRC, but I don't know how it compares to steel & refining. [00:18] Wall Street isn't going to complete for a few turns at least, right? [00:18] 12 as prez i give the official blessing to the rush [00:18] lol [00:18] cool [00:18] Iron WOrks Prebuild [00:18] lol [00:18] let's get those Iron Works up [00:19] Aggie, *technically* that is no longer true :p [00:19] but that's beside the point... you're prez as long as the turnchat lasts :p :) [00:19] wait, in my timezone, Aggie is still Pres :) [00:19] He's prez for this chat, though. :) It's the let-the-new-administration-get-its-bleep-together-chat, after all. :) [00:19] 4 Rushing Marketplace at Heliopolis for 248L [00:19] but arnelos its still the 17th here:) [00:20] Still the 17th here too. [00:20] well klorreep i think we're both in texas [00:20] Yeah, true. :) [00:20] true, but we've been using GMT for most things for some time now :p But this is beside the point, Aggie remains president until this chat ends (and that's a rule we can all agree to) [00:21] Arnelos, when are you planning to hold the next chat? [00:22] Well, information I gained in the past 15 minutes changed what will be the rule on that... [00:22] I want to get the let-the-FAM-sign-alliances-as-he-pleases bill going, but I'm not sure whether or not it needs to be rushed. [00:22] 4 CP done, doing any SMC movements [00:22] I honestly don't know because now my weekend schedule just flew up into the air (the reason I was AFK for those 5 min.) [00:23] At some point this weekend, I'll be spending most of the day traveling out-of-state and back (just that one day), but I don't know whether it will be Saturday or Sunday yet [00:24] Kloreep, I also have a similiar bill to propose ... let's see who's bill makes it to the Senate floor first ;) [00:24] Also, I want to take a quick poll of the chat: who here thinks we still need an amendment dealing with election ties? [00:24] 1 [00:24] Togas: If you already have yours written, you win. :) [00:24] LOL [00:24] 1 is yes, 2 is no [00:25] 2 [00:25] 1 1 1 1 1 1 1! [00:25] Voting before you even know the system? :) [00:25] 4Until I get anouther Rail line built into the SW part of the country, I have Rifles on the Rail Choke part of the line between Macross City & Heliopolis [00:25] I just think we need a Court who can handle a problem in less than 2 weeks [00:25] we always use the same one :p [00:25] I don't trust the Court to do that, even if I appoint you to it :p [00:25] 1 [00:25] Okay, then... I'll mix it up and say 1 is no, 2 is yes. :evilgrin: [00:26] too late :p [00:26] :) [00:26] So ET and Arnelos say 2, Togas says 1. :) [00:26] 1 [00:26] LOL [00:26] roadcage... what does that mean??? [00:26] (lol) [00:26] no [00:27] 12man... did the military start LITERALLY marching on their stomachs? what's going on? [00:27] I wish that this had the Wake All/FOrtify All that the 1.29 patch has... [00:27] So, Togas... are you going to put your bill out for prepoll, or will I actually beat you? [00:28] ah, I see... fortifying tons of units 1-by-1... ugh [00:28] I'll put my out tomorrow afternoon. I'm in court in the morning, so if I get back and there's nothing out there, I'll propose it. [00:28] 4Are we ready to go to the next turn.... [00:28] 12FAM was ready a loooong time ago :p [00:28] i am eager to see what rubber we have [00:28] Just out of curiosity, is it permanent, or does it apply only to the Roman & German wars? [00:29] I guess lots [00:29] 4Turn Ends in 10 [00:29] Well, also, I want to know so I know whether we agree or not. :) [00:29] 4Turn Ends in 5 [00:29] Kloreep, what permanent? [00:29] What about a sacrificial unit? [00:29] 4 1260 Turn Ends [00:29] doh [00:29] There isn't one, except for miol unit [00:30] miol? [00:30] what do you wnat [00:30] Arnelos: The bill to let the FAM sign alliances as he pleases. [00:30] Mil unit [00:30] Isn't there an old longbow near Hole in the Wall? [00:30] turn hasn't ended yet [00:30] yes [00:30] leave the lb as bait [00:30] It may not be totally hopeless quite yet, but it can't be upgraded, so why keep it around? [00:30] Kloreep, I don't know... how was it worded? I'll have to look at it [00:31] he's in the stack at the end of the line [00:31] Arnelos: There isn't one yet. :) [00:31] that was for later kloreep [00:31] Rail line, that is [00:31] oh :) [00:31] Kloreep, it should (rather obviously) only be during wartime [00:31] We can still use him offencively, if were attacked down there [00:31] I believe that was the compromise we reached in the thread, no? [00:31] too many conversations [00:32] But I want it to know whether Togas' bill would have it be in any war, or just the Roman & German wars. [00:32] Which thread? [00:32] I would assume ANY war... [00:32] Amendments should be general rather than specific [00:32] We've authorized alliances against Germany, but we haven't granted the FAM permanent war-time powers. [00:32] Can we end the turn? or are wo haveing multipul converstaions here? [00:32] I'd propose a bill that would allow the FAM to sign any and all military alliances for the duration of our current war and the coming German war [00:33] Ah. Thanks. :) [00:33] end is good [00:33] 12E_T, end the turn if we have the sacrificial unit [00:33] Then put that the bill expires once we are at peace with all nations, or something to that effect. [00:33] 4 did you move the slider [00:33] What, the Longbow? what do you want with him? [00:34] no I didn't, checking slider [00:34] bait for otto [00:34] YOU CAN MOVE IT DOWN by 1 [00:34] Ah. Mine is a bit different; I want it to always be in effect, but only grant alliance powers _when we are in a declared state of war with a nation_ [00:34] that saves us over 130 lytons [00:34] I was thinking we could move the Longbow north of Abandonment. [00:34] 4 we are at 70% with 123LPT income [00:35] woohoo :D [00:35] That way, if Germany does try to reneg the treaty this turn, there's a good chance the MPPs will be activatied during their turn. This might let our allies soften Germany up a bit. [00:35] 12no END :p [00:35] *now [00:35] 12NOW END (if the sacrifiical unit is in place) :p [00:35] k, 4Ending 1260 turn [00:36] mine is a bit more temporary and geared towards this situation. [00:36] I see no problem with passing both then. As with most legislation, later legislation trumps earlier legislation, but this is only the case if there is a conflict (in this case, there is none) [00:36] Togas: Yeah, they are pretty different... do you mind if I post a prepoll now, just to get this debate started? [00:37] Arnelos: Good point. [00:37] I don't mind. Perhaps include both of our language [00:37] Only problem would be confusion by the poor Senate :p [00:37] maybe make them both into one bill ;) [00:37] we'll coauthor it [00:37] Actually, I don't really have language yet. :) But I can post yours and explain how mine would differ. [00:37] sounds good :b: [00:37] Yeah, that would be good. :b: [00:37] 4Germany want to Cancell the Dye & Incense for 26LPT deal [00:37] Togas... you may not be PERMITTED to propose it by the time it's finally done y'know ;p [00:38] start up with the prepoll now. I'll read up on it tomorrow and post my version of the bill then. [00:38] Really, I just want to hear what other people think of the two proposals; that's what ultimately decides which one I'd like to see posted. [00:38] I'm going to sneak it in before I get sucked into another government job [00:38] Tell Otto we understand [00:38] LOL [00:38] 12CANCEL DEAL [00:39] 12In fact, tell Otto to take a hike [00:39] 4Telling Otto where he can put his 26LPT..... [00:39] lol [00:39] Our luxuries aren't good enough for him now?! That pompus bastard. I saw we invade him! [00:39] *say [00:39] yes we will togas but we want him to invade us:) [00:40] All right, I'll post the prepoll. I need to actually write my proposal first, though. :) [00:40] So, I guess this means no peace reneg... woohoo! I was wrong! ;) [00:40] 3we can get a good Idea of what Greece has in the way of Mounted, lots of horses..... [00:41] Togas... speaking of roping you into a government job, jdjdjd is cool with my plan :b: [00:41] 4We Discover RP, going for Sci Meth next [00:41] The wonders of RP... [00:42] Artillery :evilgrin: [00:42] sounds good. Now we just need to see what happens with Panag... [00:42] one of my favorite military units :D [00:42] What's the cost to upgrade a cannon? [00:42] Indeed... my point is that jdjdjd will let you go first no matter how the panag situation turns out [00:42] Say, aren't most of the government and government-elect people here on the RP team? It's a conspiracy... :scared: ;) [00:42] 4And we have started building Iron Works.... [00:43] Oh. Much better :b: [00:43] Kloreep, you noticed that ;p [00:43] togas are you going to be suckered in to coming out of retirement before it starts, I made sure nobody would want me:) [00:43] But that's okay. RP are friends. :) [00:43] LOL @ Aggie :D [00:43] I'm going to get sucked into never retiring, it seems [00:43] suckERed [00:43] Kloreep... indeed :) [00:44] I need one of those embarassed smileys [00:44] I'm the outgoing pres and a pround member of the glory of aggie, i eman war tram [00:44] uh-oh, now we'll have to silence you, Kloreep. Who have you told!? [00:44] * dejonAFK is now known as dejon [00:45] We RP guys just need a few military types on our team. That's the one area we really lack. [00:45] E_T is on our team... he's not half-bad (though WAAAAY too busy with the single-player) [00:45] aggie, are you on a team? [00:45] 4Finally, 1265AB [00:46] Aggie is Glory of War :p [00:46] Oh, GoW, didn't see. :) [00:46] Yeah. We need him to retire from SP if we ever go to war. [00:46] the glory of war team, also knwn as the future winners [00:46] lol [00:46] I'll be alot freer after tonight [00:46] Personally, somewhere deep down I'm rooting for Legoland to suddenly turn warmonger and beat us all into the ground (just for the amusement value of that) [00:47] 12E_T - posting save? [00:48] Legoland is my favorite underdog, too :) [00:48] Remember when you want a war won just call us 1-800-love-war [00:48] Aww, we could never do that to our friends. :) [00:49] Yes, aggie, your team has certainly advertised that a lot. [00:49] Togas: Who says we're underdogs? :rant: ;) [00:49] its an interesting idea a truly mercenary team [00:50] Yeah, it'll be cool to see how it turns out. :) [00:50] I'm working on it finishing the riteup.... [00:50] GoW is doomed to die of its own aggression [00:50] Though I hope we're on the "not being stomped into the ground" side of coolness. ;) [00:51] Okay, Togas, I've posted the prepoll thread. [00:51] not necessarily, dejon. If GoW maintains strictly to the mercenary idea, that ensures that they always have at least 1 ally in any war (assuming no-one sets them up, of course) [00:51] uploading now, let you know when it's done [00:51] The number one weakness in an all human game is predictability. [00:51] The Mercenary idea is a very strong one. Makes everyone seeking them out as allies, as opposed to fearing and distrusting them. [00:52] 4save is posted. I love DSL.... [00:52] Well, of course for the fact that I'm not sure anyone trusts them anymore than they did before :p :D [00:52] it isa good one and the great thing is you can smile and sign peace deals but pay us to bonk some heads and the person attacked never knows your behind it [00:52] Yes, some teams will be predictable. Of course, teams based on out-of-game concepts (RPers, Vox, etc.) can go either way, although they may broadcast their intent on the public forum a little. [00:52] we'll see. If they keep their agreements in the beginning of the game, it'll go a long way towards building trust [00:53] I'm curious what the other teams think of our "intentions" [00:53] Kloreep, what do you think of the germans? [00:54] I didn't see that part that Arn posted about placing the Sacrifical Unit before I went to the next turn, sorry [00:54] IMO, any team that trusts anyone has already lost. [00:54] 4I'm going to have anouthe Cigarette, BRB [00:54] Arnelos: I dunno. I haven't been following the team threads closely, and that's mainly where I would expect teams to slip. [00:54] dejon: Hmm... interesting. What's your team? ;) [00:55] dejon is one of us [00:55] brb [00:55] I'm speaking out of MP game experience, not necessarily civ3 [00:55] Hang on, liquid apple on the desk... [00:56] dejon... I'll disagree on the count that it depends on the game and it depends on the people. That said, keeping up a level of healthy skepticism is just that... healthy [00:57] Yes, skepticism is healthy in any game of Civ3, whether against AIs or humans. [00:57] THE ai, rather. :) [00:57] 4 we have many rubber and as far as i can see germany has none [00:57] I agree that people in this community, on average, seem more "honorable" than most, but a game is still a game... [00:57] Woohoo! [00:59] back [00:59] dejon... oh, I agree. there are people on some teams that convince me that no-one should trust that team EVER... but not all teams are equal on that account [00:59] et do you want to do the dm stuff and then send have me do the rest or do you want me to do it all [01:00] We have 6 Rubber [01:00] I can do the stuff, if yopu want.... [01:00] * manicstarseed has joined #civ3dem [01:00] WB MSS. [01:00] ok thats best [01:01] yeah, wb MSS :) [01:01] How was 24? :) [01:01] hey Manic [01:01] Wow [01:01] 4Starting PW now [01:01] back [01:01] Always a ride [01:01] fastesyhour on TV [01:02] we in 1270? [01:02] 1265. [01:02] Time has slowed down. :) [01:03] I have 1265 save from post [01:03] 4 i have a war idea for rome [01:03] oh? [01:03] do tell [01:03] 4 i think we should attack brundisium next turn [01:03] :b: [01:03] Gets us incense, and also gets a border with the Iroquis. [01:03] how many calvary? [01:04] That's why I wanted that rail line extended [01:04] 12I do NOT have save up yet... workin' on it [01:04] we upgrade 8 cannon to artillery and use them to weaken defenders, then calvary mops up, no more than 5 or so with few loses [01:04] 4 Looks like all of our Rubber is connected 3 somebody check all of the other Civs for Rubber, I know Russia , Aztec & Greecxe have it, look for surplusses [01:04] I maintain my statement about GoW though - while all teams have the potential for surprises, betrayals, building, agression, etc, the nexus of personalities on GoW seems inescapably agressive, therefore predictable, and doomed [01:05] Just my opinion, not sanctioned or supported by my team. :D [01:05] i think if gow plays our card right we can use that agressiveness to have many allies [01:05] that's definately true :p [01:05] Agreed [01:05] (not sanctioned by the team) [01:06] Greece has a surplus. [01:06] surplus what? [01:06] One near Herakleia, another on the Ivory coast near an unpronouncable city. [01:06] rubber [01:06] 12finally, I have the save up [01:06] One of them isn't roaded, though. [01:07] This southern war looks phoney. Kinda like 1939 [01:07] Halicarnassus? that's not unpronouncable [01:07] roadcage... yeah, my thoughts as well [01:07] Rome only has one, thankfully. [01:07] It'll heat up later if we want it to [01:07] i notice no land had been taken etc, i was hopoing with the rop that russia and rome would have several cities fall, guess not [01:08] Next turn our Artillery will remind us of May 1940 [01:08] You know, isn't next turn D-turn? [01:08] indeed and then we can go to war against germany in 1275 [01:08] Or is it the turn before D-turn? [01:08] 6GREECE WILL PAY OVER 180 LPT for RP!!!! [01:08] Woah! [01:08] I don't know about the others yet... [01:08] WOW!!!!!!!!! [01:08] Maybe they had some debt to Rome. :) [01:08] yeah... [01:09] its nice to be able to tech whore [01:09] Shop carefully! [01:09] I've seen AIs pay that much for Industrial techs, but I thought all of our AIs were cash strapped. :) [01:09] Coolio [01:09] 6FINAL number: 193 LPT + 2 L [01:09] Agreed, roadcage. :b: I don't think we should sell it till Germany is at war with us and our MPP partners, at LEAST. [01:10] I have recently played a game where I got 305/turn for SciMeth [01:10] 6THIS is our chance to really shine in techwhoring to put science to 100%, not 0% :p [01:10] The Zulu have one source. No surplus. [01:11] Japan has none! :D They're going to be paying us a lot to get it, I just know it... [01:11] And I see NO, repeat, NO, Rubber in Germany. Looking good... :) [01:12] Il double check... [01:12] Where the rubber meets the road... [01:12] 6JAPAN will pay 154 LPT + 194 L [01:12] India has one that isn't roaded yet. China has 0. [01:12] 6India and Russia are both broke [01:12] Wait till we're at war with Germany! [01:12] We don't want our troops facing Infantry. [01:13] So... Greece is the ONLY civ with a rubber surplus? This is great! [01:13] yeah. We don't want someone to sell it to Germany and then sell them rubber [01:13] i agree [01:13] Yep no rubber, now if we can prevent trades, that would be key.. [01:14] This means we're safe to sell it around once Greece is at war with Germany. :D [01:14] the alliance with greece should prevent that [01:14] Gentlemen, we have a lock! [01:14] once the war starts we'll have no problem since once germany attacks greece will be at war [01:14] AT LAST THE ALL JUNGLE START PAYS OFF [01:14] 6Germany will pay 234 LPT + 337 Lytons... that would almost be enough to NOT fight them... but we want to MAKE SURE they never come back :p [01:14] Wait a minute... Greece has THREE sources. There's a third near Delphi. [01:15] thats also means that they aren't researching it [01:15] My guess is Refining [01:15] Greece is going to be a powerhouse... [01:15] Especially with Germany out of the way. [01:15] I suggest we hold RP from greece unless they really need it [01:16] After these wars, we're going to have a fundamental question of friendship vs. hostility towards Greece. [01:16] yep [01:16] hostility is my votew [01:16] After these wars, we will be powerful enough to do what ever we want [01:16] wait untill we have tanks before trading RP to them [01:16] 3I go on Record as being aginst selling RP at this time [01:16] 6ENGLAND will pay 102 LPT + 127 L [01:16] They've never been a real threat and we can beat them to tech advances. Plus, their our primary client. [01:17] Spoken like a true Hawk, aggie :) [01:17] thank you, remember peace through superior firepower [01:17] MSS, I doubt we can wait that long. They can research it themselves by then. [01:17] but if they are behinde greece in thech they will trade it in a heart beat [01:17] 3E_T... Greece is NOT a threat if we beat them to mobile transportation [01:17] I suggest we take it to the forums to allow everyone to savor this moment [01:17] let them, we then can drive elsewhere [01:18] roadcage: I agree. [01:18] This is NOT, repeat NOT, a national emergency... [01:18] This debate is premature, anyway. We need to see what shape we're in (and what the world itself is like) with Germany gone and Rome defeated. [01:18] people will savor it either way [01:18] true [01:19] WE need to get to the start of the war... that's the geopolitical situation the Senate needs to ponder [01:19] wow. Heliopolis lost it's supply of coal, but we can still build IW. Glad we started on it previously [01:19] Togas, we have 1 extra still (we only sold 1 of 3) [01:19] aggh... timing can be everything [01:20] * nz_upy has joined #civ3dem [01:20] The city lost it from it's radius. I was worried about IW, but I see we're still building it. So that's a releif [01:20] evening all [01:20] 6I'm thinking that we techwhore RP now... they're going to discover it ANYWAY (perhaps even germany next turn???) by the time we go after a target after Germany [01:20] Hi nz_upy [01:20] Greece can still sell it to Germany! Don't do it! [01:21] (AND sell rubber, too, which is the main problem.) [01:21] we should techwhore it on the same turn we declare war on Germany. [01:21] yeah... the rubber is the problem, not hte tech [01:21] hold on to it at least untill we drag the world int war against germany [01:21] Togas, this is true... but we don't know that Germany won't discover it and techwhore it before next turn [01:22] It should be noted artillery don't require resources, though. RP will give Germany more firepower. [01:22] when will we declare war? [01:22] Germany is offering quite a bit of money for it. Not the usual fare if they were reaserching it themselves. [01:22] 4 germany would not pay so much for it if they were close to getting it [01:22] the AI almost never builds artillery... [01:22] they do, but only for city defense [01:22] Aggie, good point... I guess England must be the one working on it, then [01:22] And I've rarely seen it use artillery offenseively either. It does stack them for defense, though. [01:22] who had gotten Espianoge first? [01:22] They probably have one cannon in each metro [01:22] no clue on espionage [01:23] I'm betting Germany [01:23] 4Back to PW [01:23] England will pay the least for RP (~100 LPT), so they're probably the ones researching it [01:23] 100 LPT hopefully means they're still several turns away. [01:23] That's all we need. [01:23] I will be ROYALLY PISSED if someone gets it and techwhores it in the next turn... [01:24] it's always a gamble ;) [01:24] indeed :) [01:24] Umm... are we aware that Greek units are in our territory? [01:24] Kloreep, yes we are (they were last turn, too) [01:24] You know, Greece would accept an embargo against Germany. :) [01:24] I figure the Greeks will turn back when we pull them into war against Germany [01:24] Are embargoes authorized? [01:25] Nope [01:25] That would allow us to techwhore safely. [01:25] good point [01:25] Darn. :( [01:25] VERY good point... [01:25] no more scandles [01:25] hmm... I'd rather that we got to the start of the war, though... [01:25] we gotta get this stuff pre-authorized [01:25] Wait a minute... [01:26] Woohoo! Look at http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70025 [01:26] The Directory comes in handy. :D [01:26] umm... which thread is that (Just tell me) [01:26] I'm looking at the NewCon right now... [01:27] It's a senate bill that allows the FAM to establish embargoes as he pleases. :) [01:27] Embargoes require senate approval [01:27] um... that hasn't passed yet, has it? [01:27] There are a few technicalities anyone could bring it to court on, but no one did, so it's legal. :) [01:27] "Poll officiallly closes three days from now. December 8." [01:27] really? why do I totally not remember this [01:27] It's an old Bill Thud proposed back during the Zulu embargoe. [01:28] blank check [01:28] I had forgotten about it too, but I figured the Directory was worth a look. :) [01:28] ok, I'm looking... [01:28] Have I plugged the directory enough? ;) [01:28] when is the new d-turn? [01:28] 4 alex will take an embargo on germany straight up [01:29] Yep. :) [01:29] All it needs is FAM approval. :) [01:29] I think next turn [01:29] 6look at roadcage's argument in the thread :p [01:29] And ET... :evilgrin: [01:30] So many people are going to be eating their words. ;) [01:30] i was thinking of making d turn 1275 after all cannon are upgraded and brundisium fall next turn [01:30] It passed and conforms to our current laws. Someone could later challange it's constitutionality, but it's valid until otherwise decided by the Court [01:30] 2 turns from now? [01:30] D-Turn should remain next turn... we can upgrade all canon this turn, can't we??? [01:30] costs 80 to upgrade 1 [01:30] Actually, only 4 people voted against, but those four people will be eating their ballots. :) [01:30] we need over 1600 [01:31] Arn is right [01:31] oh... [01:31] That's one pricey upgrade... [01:31] wait a minute... the techwhoring is going to give us some money here... [01:31] cool [01:31] Sign an embargo, and techwhore. Best choice. :) [01:31] mostly per turn [01:31] I Support it if kosher [01:32] WAIT UP A MOMENT [01:32] yes and we will upgrade 8 this turn, an idea that me and et had talked about was that we go 0% research this turn ti get a 1000 to do all the other upgrades [01:32] I'm looking at the money from the techwhoring... [01:32] BTW, did anyone see how proud Fanatika was of having a 6 hour 20 minute turnchat? I'm sure we've done much longer than that. LOL [01:32] afk [01:32] we routinely do longer than that [01:33] particularly in response to hostile embargoes upon us [01:33] * roadcage has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:33] We'll make 323 lytons this turn, 449 LPT more after that from the techwhoring... no need to turn down science so low? [01:33] We DO have a lot of units to upgrade... [01:33] * roadcage has joined #civ3dem [01:34] back [01:34] only a few rifle and all the cannon [01:34] but the cannon are 80 each [01:34] One rifleman upgrade is only 20 gold, but cannons are expensive. [01:34] aren't cannons more important? [01:35] MSS: Agreed. [01:35] * nz_upy has quit IRC (Quit: ) [01:35] and worth it 1.5x the strike and 2x the rate [01:35] and the range [01:35] yes 2x the range [01:35] we'll be 463 lytons short this turn for all the canons... even if we keep science at 70%, we'll still have an extra 90 lytons after all leftover canon upgrades next turn [01:36] Yeah, but did you factor in Rifle upgrades? [01:36] well there are also 8 rifelupgrades [01:36] 90 extra is only enough for 4. [01:36] We're going to be making 449 LPT more after this... [01:36] 4Fortress is built at HitW #15 [01:36] Kloreep, no [01:36] since you all form the next gov I'll let you determine trades [01:36] Oh, you didn't factor in techwhoring LPT? [01:37] thank you [01:37] I DID [01:37] Well, that does change things... :) [01:37] 3 I have 7 Native that I can still use, we aren't attacking Germany this turn, Right [01:37] Oh, you did... [01:37] my point is that each successive turn we'll still be enjoying the benefits... so we can always spread out non-essential upgrades [01:37] Yes, true. [01:37] thinking [01:37] thats why the brundisium attack makes sense, we can use those artillery while the others are being upgraded with no turn lose AND take a city [01:38] But we also need Infantry to protect all that shiny new Artillery. [01:38] aggie: You've convinced me. [01:38] how many cannon can be done this turn? [01:38] um... lemme calculate [01:38] i was planning on 8 and 8 rife to infant [01:38] 14 cannons [01:38] 3 I RR'ed the Former German Iron Mountain, Good spot to Bombard Hamburg with Artillary [01:39] I would hope we could upgrade 10-20 Infantry this turn. [01:39] or 12 cannon + 8 rifle? [01:39] We will have 1137 lytons after techwhoring this turn [01:39] nod... [01:39] We need 1840 to upgrade all of the Cannon [01:39] BTW I am haf-steam here as I am getting a job application together [01:40] 1120 will do 12 c + 8 r [01:40] income will be 551 LPT if we don't turn up the tax rate (then it would be even more, but in small increments) [01:40] that should be fine I think, especiall if we keep germany down [01:40] Ok, we're going to need to jack up the tax rate [01:40] What we need to do is calculate the total cost of ALL UPGRADES [01:40] to what effect on science? [01:41] How many cannons and how many rifles are we upgrading in all that are ESSENTIAL before the start of war??? [01:41] Do we have a set number of Infantry we want to upgrade? [01:41] BTW: I bumped Thud's Senate Bill to the front page. :D [01:41] 4I'm going to be using the SMC PW Researve as I see fit, unless someone says other wise in the next 30 Secs [01:41] only upgrade -essential- riflemen (those being used in the invasion) for this turn and next before war [01:41] dejon: :b: That should keep an illegal embargo thread from popping up. [01:41] 80L perr Cannon, 20L per Rifle [01:41] The fortress was all I really wanted down south [01:42] yes the ones on vulnerable border cities along aztec and germany [01:42] and a couple to garrison Brundesiun [01:42] E_T... not cost per unit, but how many units??? [01:43] no arnelos we must upgrade the border ones I don't want aztecs or germans taking a cheap city [01:43] 3 2940L to Upgrade EVERYTHING [01:43] fine, those too... but I wanna minimize this... any that are not CRITICAL to upgrade in the next TURN can wait... we're going to have a simply ENORMOUS income... if they can wait 2 turns, they should [01:44] well we are in good shap and remebr we can move a rifelinto an occupied city and upgrade:) [01:44] 4Using SMC PW Reserve as I see fit [01:44] What terrain is Brundesium? [01:44] because if we can keep the science slider even at something like 40% or 50% and cut a turn off our research time, it could be worth it [01:44] DESERT [01:45] back [01:46] 8 to 10 Arty should be enough [01:46] hopefully also artill will knock the pop down low enough to make it even easier:) [01:47] You don't care about the poor, oppressed Roman people? [01:47] Hawk :p ;) [01:48] we are allowing those tough enough to survive some ordanance the opportunity yo become Apolytonians [01:49] The more we bombard, the less we have to starve [01:49] 4PW is done [01:49] 4going to CP [01:50] Hmm... the island of Reading actually has some Iron on it. [01:50] Never noticed that before. [01:51] 6I just came up with an idea for getting us some more money (and denying some to Greece) [01:51] 3Draft? [01:51] Sell RP to Germany for all cash-on-hand? [01:51] Hmm... [01:51] They have over 300 lytons [01:51] no [01:51] we though about that with elec and decided it was letting them off too cheap [01:51] Arn, what you been smoking??? [01:52] It's not a bad plan, actually [01:52] Completely Against it [01:52] can we prevent them frm getting any rubber? [01:52] my point is that we'd like to deny Greece a FREE 500-1000 lytons... no? [01:52] I am not in favor of it either [01:52] 3Do We Want to DraFT??? [01:52] MSS: Greece is the only country w/ a surplus, and they'll sign an embargo for free. $) [01:52] I'm just floating it as an idea... [01:52] yes [01:53] I actually think it's a good idea... [01:53] So it passes thru Greece. They will caugh when we decide to offer SciMeth [01:53] that must happen FIRST, [01:53] 4 i'd say yes to drafe but since you will have to deal with the consequences it is up to you [01:53] MSS: agreed. [01:53] You mean me? [01:53] That's why I'm only ding it from select Cities [01:53] but can we trade techs with an embargo in place? [01:54] so long as Germany can't get rubber, they can't make use out of RP. And we can empty their coffers of cash so they can't bribe in other nations. [01:54] But I still think we should do it. :) Just make sure it's AFTER we've traded to everyone else, so we don't waste good money by tech devaluation. [01:54] E_T, only draft if we really NEED IT, but then it's ok. I'm far more concerned about war weariness than I am the lost pop [01:54] I think so, but I'm not sure about that. [01:54] E_T... what do you think about the war weariness situation? [01:54] Hel no we wont go will ding happyness tooo [01:55] 20 turns of unhappiness... [01:55] I'll run a simulation. :) [01:55] It'll take a bit to set up, though. [01:56] i suggest we do this chat till the end of next turn, then stop as we prepare to attack germany [01:56] "unhappiness"... I know that, my question is how much will it matter in conjunction with mounting war weariness? [01:56] Aggie... I would think we should actually START the war so that we can sign the necessary military alliances [01:56] Hey, it only let me Draft from 1 City, no others [01:56] or we declare on germany at the end of next turn and put the sacrificial lb on the border then [01:56] Yes, declare, form the military alliances, then sit back for more planning [01:57] yes [01:57] which one ET [01:57] and which ones want it let you [01:58] If we can only get one lousy conscript, it's not worth it [02:00] . [02:00] 12E_T, you there? [02:00] . [02:01] I wonder what happened to E_T... [02:01] he might still be doing orders [02:01] wait... we're you supposed to start doing that now? [02:01] *weren't [02:02] i told him to do dm stuff and then i would take the save [02:02] ah... [02:02] makes sense [02:02] 4CP Done [02:02] ok, there we go [02:02] I was Drafting From Avignon [02:03] ok... so we only drafted one lousy conscript? [02:03] (at least he was a French consript) [02:04] I was planning just a couple of more Cities, just the ones NOT buildiong Factories presently and size 10 and under, but I could only do one [02:04] the size for the Happiness issue.... [02:04] Well, we now have the French Conscript Regiment... putting those conquered french to work! :doitnow!: [02:05] Aggie, you want me to do the SMC stuff, too? [02:05] E_T... you're going to want to wait for FAM to be done before finishing upgrades [02:05] sure since not much to do actually [02:06] Upgrading Infantyr from the list [02:08] . [02:08] ...yawn.... [02:09] ...stomach growling loudly... [02:09] I'm surprised most of you are still up [02:09] I'm actually working right now. [02:09] Okay, trading techs to someone you've embargoed is NOT against the embargo. [02:10] Kloreep, we already knew that :) [02:10] did we need any money for FAM? [02:10] We can trade RP to Germany once we've whored it around elsewhere, should we want to. [02:10] no... I'm going to MAKE YOU MONEY :p [02:10] ah, well, Upgraded 8 Rifle & 9 Cannon [02:10] they wont pay nearly that muc for it [02:10] I love that aspect of the FAM job [02:10] we have 14 L left [02:11] what are we setting the Slider to? [02:11] ok... I'm gonna do a quickpoll once I have the numbers here... [02:12] k [02:12] as pres I say 0% so we can get the money [02:12] 6Germany will pay us 337 Lytons NOW and 234 LPT for RP. Do we want (1) No Deal, (2) Just the cash, (3) the LPT as well? [02:12] 1 [02:12] 2 [02:12] The reason I seperate these is that I'm not sure if declaring war when we have an LPT deal affects reputation??? [02:12] 4 1 [02:12] it does [02:12] it does [02:13] ok, then 234 lytons probably isn't worth a rep hit :p [02:13] Hmm. How long is intended German campaign? (turns) [02:13] yes it does [02:13] depends, shorter with Artillary [02:13] minimum 20 [02:14] minus, what? 2 turns [02:14] Togas: not quite :p ... minimium is 20 or Germany's DESTRUCTION :D [02:14] minimum 10+ [02:14] I say the time for the MPP's to run out... [02:14] but remeber germany will be eliminated before the 20 turns is up [02:14] They're going to get it sooner or later, we may as well profit off it, and drain their funds prior to war [02:14] 2 [02:14] unless we get Alliances, too [02:14] True. We MIGHT destroy them within 20 turns [02:15] with artillery and rr we can take 2/3 cities a turn [02:15] I figure they will last 10 to 15 turns [02:15] They'll go quicker if they can't afford to buy distractions (alliances). [02:15] 6so only 3 people voted??? [02:15] not the biggies with huge culture radius [02:16] 6re-quickpoll: (1) Take the 337 Lytons, (2) Tell Otto to Stuff it [02:16] I count 4 votes [02:16] I vote no deal [02:16] yap but rermeber after stuggart we are in artillery range of berlin [02:16] 2 [02:16] 2 [02:16] 1 [02:16] 1 [02:16] lol [02:17] MSS? Kloreep? [02:17] MSS is AFK, I think [02:17] Sorry, browsing. :) [02:17] 2 [02:18] do we sell RP to Germany for a pittance? [02:18] no [02:18] Better than Greece getting the same. [02:18] 6 pieces of silver? [02:18] But make sure we sell it to Germany last so the tech doesn't devalue. [02:18] I thought it was 20... [02:18] Kloreep, which poll were you voting in??? [02:18] It's clearly tied [02:18] Arnelos, you're going to have to make the call [02:19] Oh, whoops. [02:19] No... Kloreep was going to break the tie, but his vote totally confused me [02:19] 1 in the new poll. [02:19] yea [02:19] (Yes, take the lytons but not the LPT). [02:19] hmm... [02:19] I think that breaks the tie. :) [02:19] is the embargo in place? [02:19] we're basically evenly divided [02:19] NO [02:19] Unless we consider Roadcage ;) [02:20] Is ther ANY WAY THAT GERMANY CAN GET RUBBER? [02:20] We're just debating what my orders should be [02:20] no [02:20] no [02:20] Not once the embargo is in place. [02:20] Does Japan have rubber??? [02:20] japan has no rubber [02:20] Nope. Not even their own source. [02:20] nope not a source they will pay us [02:20] Then if it will do them no good and were going to be selling it, then Sell it to them last [02:20] nod [02:21] We and Greece are the only ones who can export Rubber. :) [02:21] get the embargo first [02:21] Japan had 1 Rubber [02:21] roadcage - obviously :p [02:21] and i will go along [02:22] Um, will the embargo affect the prices? [02:22] right under Kozuke [02:22] he's right [02:22] of RP? shouldn't or rubber? should [02:22] they have 1 source (their own) [02:22] do any other countries have rubber under a city [02:23] Hey, this Poly calendar page I saw linked says it's Shiber's birthday tomorrow (19th). [02:23] that could trade with gwermany [02:23] Hey... here's an idea... why not sign embargoes against Germany with everyone we can? [02:23] Grand River [02:23] they have rubber UNDERNEATH the damned city ... wow. [02:23] German may not pay for something they're embargoed against importing [02:23] could germany have rubber under a city by the way [02:23] Whoa, Germany has Pollution [02:24] that pollution has been there for a looooong time [02:24] just checked the German cities, no rubber [02:24] 12no rubber under german cities [02:24] No Rubber [02:24] doh [02:24] I knew there was a reason I didn't start checking... ;P [02:25] 6I'll repeat.... why not just sign embargoes with EVEYRONE against Germany? :evilgrin: [02:25] I'm all for it if it doesn't cost us anything [02:25] Arnelos - Prior to the tech trading? [02:25] Babs has 1 under Ur [02:25] why not? will it make any difference? [02:25] Any embargos that don't cost us are fine. :) [02:25] That gives Babylon only 1 source [02:26] let's just get it done. It's past my bedtime here :) [02:26] will Germany pay 337 for a tech that they can't effectively use (embargoed against)? [02:26] Rome has just the one [02:26] 6quickpoll: sign embargoes against Germany with every available power? (1) yes (2) no [02:26] 1 [02:26] 1 [02:26] 1 [02:26] 3 all powers that will give it for free. [02:27] 1, but trade tech first, just in case [02:27] That will hopefully be all who aren't trading, but you never know. :) [02:27] We can get an Embargo with someone who is activly trading with Germany [02:27] Kloreep, that's what I meant by "available" [02:27] Can Not [02:27] Oh, okay, then 1. :) [02:27] 1 [02:27] afk [02:27] ok then... lemme go look at that [02:28] I'm not looking at FAM, I don't want to mess with teh Random seed... [02:29] I don't think the seed is changed as long as you don't sign deals, but a good precaution anyway. [02:29] when you go to meet them at the teble, it is, trust me [02:29] 6LOL - ALL POWERS, EVEN THE ZULULS, will sign embargoes against Germany :evilgrin: [02:29] go for it [02:30] loverly [02:30] see if any will pay us [02:30] it must be ordained [02:30] checking payments... [02:30] Banana, I want a Cig.... [02:30] I doubt it... we're bankrupting the ones with cash by selling them RP already [02:31] If they all will sign embargoes, we may not need the Exploder flood [02:31] Start wit the Exporters, Greece, Japan, Zulu, India [02:32] ok, lemme look [02:32] We still need it, we cant get China (furs) and Rome (Ivory) to the table... [02:32] This must be savored [02:32] Babs is only an Importer [02:33] 6Greece won't pay a single lyton for the embargoe [02:33] *embargo [02:33] then do it as part of the tech deal? [02:34] I'm going to get a soda, BRB [02:34] how can we trade with rome, babs, china (at war) [02:34] India won't pay us either [02:34] combining with the techdeal does NOT increase the income [02:34] (I already tried that with Greece) [02:34] E_T made me thirsty, going to get some *special* eggnog [02:35] lol [02:35] Another reason to capture Brundisium is to protect Novgorod and its rubber. [02:36] 6ALL powers are "insulted" if you add even a single lyton to the embargo deal [02:36] i suspect we can foreget about getting money [02:36] yup [02:36] but we can get enough from tech deal [02:36] no, youdo the tech trade, then the embargo [02:36] back [02:36] um... YEAH! (can get enough money from techdeal) [02:36] i hate to give it up but if it helps us in the long run it is worth it [02:37] E_T... we can try that... [02:37] thats the whole advantage of tech whoring after all [02:37] actually, E_T... that STILL won't work [02:37] Letsdo it, the most money first, please [02:38] Shouldn't we sign the embargo with Greece before letting them know they have rubber? [02:38] Ah yum! That'll keep me going. [02:38] 6No-one will pay a single lyton for an embargo... regardless of circumstances... they'll sign'em for free, though? (we're getting to greedy if that's not good enough) [02:38] I don't think that makes a difference, but just in case... [02:38] why, we aren't trading any resouses or Luxes wit Germany [02:38] They cancelled the old deals [02:39] sorry, misinterepeted a post [02:39] i don't know if i can stay up much longer [02:40] Hey, it's an hour later here.... [02:40] thats true [02:40] aggie - go get a rum&nog - it'll keep ya going. [02:40] let's get the show on the road.... [02:40] let's get this MOVING so we can all eat and/or go to bed! [02:40] I'm about to post orders... anyone have anything I might have missed? [02:40] Sack Berlin! [02:40] I eat way eirlier..... [02:41] man... I'm starving [02:41] * Kloreep is now known as Kloreep-AFK [02:41] but I'm waiting until the war starts... it's best to go toward war on an empty stomach :p [02:41] thats sounds good dejon [02:41] I DO WANT A CIGARETTE, so get on with it............... [02:42] :doitnow: [02:42] 12Sign Embargoes AGAINST GERMANY (*please* don't mis-click) with GREECE, ENGLAND, RUSSIA, JAPAN, INDIA, the AZTECS, the IROQUIOS, and ZULULAND [02:43] tell me when you're done with that... [02:43] 4Greece done [02:44] * Kloreep-AFK is now known as Kloreep [02:44] 4England Done [02:45] Otto should have kept paying the piddling lpt! [02:45] lol [02:45] 4Japan Done [02:45] too bad he'll never get the chance to learn his lesson :p [02:46] 4India Done [02:46] good to see, guys. I need to get to sleep. Have to be in court tomorrow [02:46] 12LOL - sign one with PERSIA, too ;p [02:46] 4 Zulu Done [02:46] later togas [02:46] Bye Togas. [02:46] nite Togas [02:46] cya togas [02:46] bye [02:46] Good luck :) [02:47] night togas [02:47] danke [02:47] I'll read up about this tomorrow afternoon [02:47] * Togas has quit IRC (Quit: ) [02:48] . [02:48] 4Russia & Iroqouis done [02:48] 12Aztecs and Persia left to go [02:48] aztecs? [02:49] 12Yeah, throw in the Aztecs, too (I forgot them?) [02:49] no, but et hadn't reported them [02:49] 4Azztecs & Persia done [02:49] that's the list [02:49] good... now, techwhoring [02:50] Throw in the French and American too - oh wait, they're dead. [02:50] Throw them in anyway. ;) [02:50] 12Sell Replaceable Parts to Greece for 193 LPT + 2 L [02:50] They embargo Germany in spirit. ;) [02:50] well some their citizens live(and work) in our great nation [02:50] 12that's W/O a WM :( [02:50] one moment... [02:50] (we don't need it anyway) [02:51] um... ok? [02:52] E_T??? [02:52] . [02:53] the WM has a value oover 1L [02:53] yeah, I know [02:53] but the other 2 WM's are free [02:53] (the ones we'll get this turn) [02:53] o.k., what you need, before I close the deal? [02:53] so perhaps we should do Greece last... alright... [02:53] 12Alright... do Greece last [02:54] do the highest bidder first [02:54] 3tell me who to go toand for how much [02:54] and Germany last [02:54] 12Sell RP to England for 102 LPT + 127 L + their WM [02:54] Who is the Highest bidder? [02:55] Greece [02:55] Germany is the highest bidder... but that's beside the point [02:55] You should do the highest first [02:55] Greece is highest bidder, but we want them last to see if we can get their WM cheap [02:55] it doesn't matter... [02:55] does it? [02:55] yes it does [02:55] it does? [02:55] Tech devaluation. [02:55] ok... Greece goes first [02:55] it devalues the tech [02:55] because the cost goes down as people get it [02:55] The more civs that know a tech, the less valuable that tech is. [02:56] 12execute the deal with Greece [02:56] Kloreep, I know this is true... but I figured this only was checked and changed between turns [02:56] but whatever... [02:57] we'll do the best price first [02:57] 12REMINDER: Sell Greece RP for 193 LPT + 2 L [02:57] it appears to be real time. But often the low bidders are cash restrained and thus do no tlower [02:57] 12E_T??? [02:57] 3I can get 192LPT & 18L (w.o WM) from Greece or with the WM for 1L less [02:58] It happens as soon as the tech is sold. I've seen tech prices go down. [02:58] E_T... odd... wonder if the embargo did that [02:58] take the map [02:58] yeah, take the map [02:58] k. exicuting deal [02:58] :hmm: I asked if that would happen... [02:59] we tried it the other way around and there was no impact... this way it works [02:59] 4Sold Greece RP for 192LPT; 17L & WM [02:59] 192??? [03:00] oh well... [03:00] . [03:00] * roadcage has quit IRC (Quit: ) [03:00] now I see that you put that above [03:00] Yes - the embargoes devalued the tech slightly - one less buyer! I tried to warn... [03:00] it works [03:00] you had several prices up [03:00] * roadcage has joined #civ3dem [03:00] but you make deals you change the random seed and the deals might be a bit differednt [03:01] dejon... the embargoes did nothing of the sort... it's the WORLD MAP that devalued the deal [03:01] It was still 192 w/o the map, as I read [03:01] by 3L, bit deal [03:01] whatever lets get on with it [03:01] :b: [03:01] Who's next? [03:02] 12Sell RP to JAPAN for 154 LPT + 194 L + their WM (unless it changes) [03:02] No, no big deal. I'm just saying "I told you so." :D [03:02] dejon... I honestly don't think it had that impact [03:02] Perhaps I didn't make myself clear earlier. [03:02] the 3 lytons is the world map [03:02] 3make deal withJapan for as much as I can get, do you want all cash on had? [03:02] hand? [03:03] yes [03:03] Why the 1LPT lower then? [03:03] dejon... it was 193 LPT + 2 L before... we got 192 LPT + 17 L... that's only 5 lytons... that's teh world map [03:04] 12Please tell me what best deal with Japan is before executing [03:04] Japans WM has no real Value... [03:04] it is 104gpt+all gold [03:05] yeah, that's what I get too [03:06] It is quite possible I'm just confused here, but didn't E_T say w/o the WM was 192LPT + 18L? (1L difference) [03:06] that was greece [03:06] 3I can get 105LPT & 183L for RP [03:06] thats good [03:07] dejon... that's because E_T didn't apparently read that I told him to do it for 193 LPT (which they would take) [03:07] arnelos and dejon take it to a private chat [03:07] 12E_T, that's the exact same number I get [03:07] please [03:07] 12Go for it [03:07] just a suggestion to keep eithe rof ya'll form getting confused [03:07] good [03:07] 12Execute sale of RP to Japan for 105 LPT + 183 L [03:09] 4Sold RP to Japan for 105LPT & 183L [03:09] Who's next [03:09] 6England will still pay full price! [03:09] England? [03:09] 12Sell RP to England for 102 LPT + 127 L + their WM [03:10] 12Execute England deal, please [03:11] . [03:11] ...lack-of-food-headache... [03:12] 4Sold RP to England for WM; 102LPT & 127L [03:12] thank you :D [03:12] Next? [03:12] 12FAM OK TO END! [03:12] Germany for cash? [03:12] everyone else is broke :( [03:12] oh yeah!!! [03:12] any Rubbber to sell? [03:12] 12Sell to GErmany... [03:13] 6E_T, good point... my mind is running away from me here [03:13] for as much LPT I can get, Right.... :D [03:13] I think England needs some. :) [03:13] 12Sell RP to GErmany for 337 Lytons [03:13] ans any one been following along? [03:13] not playing but watching [03:14] 6E_T, I'm following along... I can check rubber prices [03:14] Also, does Japan have theirs connected yet? [03:14] it's under a city... I assume [03:14] Not playing along, though I do have the starting save for this year. [03:14] Yeah, that's right. I forgot. [03:14] yes [03:14] do we want the WM , too? [03:14] 6ENGLAND IS BROKE [03:15] Woah. [03:15] hee hee [03:15] sure go for the wm too [03:15] why not [03:15] Guess we'll be keeping our rubber for the moment. :) [03:15] yap [03:16] 4 Sold RP to Germany for just WM & 337L (they have NO Rubber) [03:16] ok [03:16] 4 upgrade all possible artillery now [03:16] 12E_T... use extra money for any additional upgrades [03:16] and tell us how many left [03:17] we have 678L and are at 504LPT with 70% and 4 turns to SM [03:17] Shouldn't we upgrade a few Riflemen before the cannons? [03:17] finish what upgrades you can... then tell us the numbers on what's left [03:17] Nice income. Good work FAM [03:17] we have already kloreeo [03:17] we upgraded 8 [03:17] Whoops. Missed that. [03:18] well it was only a line or 2 so it was easy to miss [03:18] do 4 cannon and rest rifle [03:18] 4 38L left [03:18] hell, upgrade a rifleman :p [03:19] how many cannon left [03:19] remeber we NEED all cannon before the war starts [03:19] yes, how many cannon and NECESSARY riflemen left? [03:20] 3 we have 7 Cannon left & 16 Artillary [03:20] so that is 560 next turn [03:20] how about necessary riflemen/infantry? [03:20] Not quite enough LPT for the cannons. :( [03:20] 3that will cost 560L to finish the upgrades [03:21] we need to turn down the science slider [03:21] well we can stay go to 5 turns then next turn set it to 3 that should do it [03:21] yeah, it should work [03:21] 3 we have 46 Rifle, with 10 Infantry. Cost is 920L to upgrade [03:22] ok, those can be spaced out [03:22] Total let to Upgrade - 1460L [03:22] the rifle can be spread over few turns [03:22] * aggie2 has joined #civ3dem [03:22] aggie is multiplying again... he has a habit of that [03:22] Just do 5 turns throughout, what's the rush? [03:22] 4 official presedential order, set slider so we get sm in 5, then next turn set it so we fget sm in3 [03:23] sounds good [03:23] 5 for now and re-evaluate [03:23] We can build aour cash bak up [03:23] well we need to time the tech before toe is competed so we don't waste a tech [03:23] 12By which I assume he means 60% science (5 turns to SM) [03:24] I said lasst turn that it will be 10 to 11 turns to ToE [03:24] since we are ending at the end of next turn, it really is up to ya'll after this turn [03:24] so 2 5 turn techs will work perfectly [03:24] i mean 2, 5 turn tech [03:24] got you [03:25] then the turn before toe we do NO research so not 1 beaker or gold coin is wasted [03:25] 12Is the slider moved??? [03:25] 4 Set Slider to 60%, Income is 653LPT. We have 18L in Treasury.... [03:25] Aggie: agreed (that's the way I do ToE as well) [03:26] excellent [03:26] 12FAM ok to end [03:26] Just finished the module I was working on - how many more turns to play? [03:26] good, i figured partiing advice from the departing pres is ok, at least i won't pardon friends of my campaign donators [03:26] 12CP Rady, let me look at SMC real Quick and I'll be o.k. [03:26] lol @ Aggie [03:27] 1.... more.... turn.... :D [03:27] 4Turn ending in 10 [03:28] 4Turn Ending in 5 [03:28] 4 Ending 1265 now [03:28] finally [03:28] Are we anywhere near the record chat duration? [03:28] yeah, that turn took how many hours? :p [03:29] i think we blew it away a while ago [03:29] dejon... I don't think so... does anyone remember the 6-turn chat I ran as VP? :p [03:29] yes i do [03:29] 4Japan call about our Peace Treaty [03:29] crap... what's the best deal? [03:30] Can you negotiate peace treaties? [03:30] just give them best deal [03:30] no way to specify, either take it or leave it [03:30] take it [03:30] I find I can never make a counteroffer. [03:30] yes, take it [03:30] 12take it [03:30] we got all their lpt for RP [03:30] 4and we are at...... [03:31] 4Peace with Japan.... [03:31] lol [03:31] geez [03:31] hold the presses! [03:31] English Troops moving towards Germany [03:31] well, that's at least a good sign [03:32] good [03:32] 4will it be peace with Germany????? [03:32] crap [03:32] did they contact us? [03:32] 12Did Germany contact us? [03:32] I think he's joking... [03:32] 4Oto is on the line, while we speak. He's on hold, though [03:32] 4 if they did tell them WAR [03:32] Really? [03:32] 12duh [03:32] we have no choice [03:33] it's that or a rep hit [03:33] We where waiting for this [03:33] 12GO TO WAR IF OTTO CONTACTED YOU [03:33] yes, we were, i wish we had rembered the lb [03:33] no it isn't, no LPT deals are current, no rep hit [03:34] this is why we sold for cash only [03:34] 3War, right? [03:34] 12WAR [03:34] war [03:34] What does he want? [03:34] War! [03:34] he wants 20 turns of peace [03:34] 4Of course you know, Otto, this means War!!! [03:34] 4 time to take out the garbage [03:34] * aggie has quit IRC (Ping timeout) [03:34] Oh for crying out load - WAR! [03:34] we need a couple of cities [03:35] . [03:36] War [03:36] 12E_T... anything else? [03:36] 4The Iroquois call about peace [03:36] sign it [03:36] sign it and did otto attack [03:37] Masive German Buildup on the boarder, but they didn't cross [03:37] they'll do so next turn... we're on schedule [03:37] yes indeed we are [03:38] How big is massive? [03:38] 4Our Galley ant is just south of the Russian BOarder has reported a Roman Gallion , escorted by an Inclad, headed out to sea [03:39] going for Japan, no doubt [03:39] Dejon, several stacks [03:39] nope probaly for uber [03:39] I take that back... [03:39] that's probably headed for US [03:39] ok, we need a navy [03:40] Don't we have an Ironclad? [03:40] We have ONE [03:40] panag was harping about our lack of a decent navy.. [03:40] 2 more would be good, if we can fit them in the queue. [03:41] well, thankfully... ironclads are so frickin' slow that we have time to build one by the time it gets where its going :p [03:41] Dijon's Boarders expand, but don't take the Russina Rubber, pity.... [03:41] We'll try harder next time (the citizens of Dijon). [03:42] How many cav are on Uber? [03:42] Hurry up machine, I have to PPPPPP [03:42] 1 on Uber [03:42] 1 roadcage, [03:43] we need to shuttle some [03:43] This is more easily handled by sinking the stupid boat [03:43] first lets see how the initial attack goes [03:43] if we can intercept [03:44] . [03:44] 4and it's 1270.... [03:44] we can upgrade musk to infantry on uber [03:45] you mean rifles, right? ;p [03:45] yes i do:) [03:45] posting save???? [03:46] . [03:47] hello? [03:47] hi [03:47] lol - I mean E_T [03:47] i know, just being supportive [03:47] working on it [03:47] ok :) [03:48] could we do Brundesium first and then quit? [03:48] ALLIANCES FIRST [03:48] ok [03:49] * dejon is fading [03:49] that DSL connection isn't doing so well right now with 'poly, is it E_T? [03:50] looks like panang will beour next vp [03:50] not that, finishing the report that goes with it... [03:50] ah... [03:51] Starting upload [03:51] aggie. really? I'll have to look in the thread (there's a good 9 hours left) [03:51] well its 19-14 [03:51] ah... yeah, that looks good for him [03:51] the aggie polling service projects panang our next vp [03:51] If I had to make a guess, I'd say Shiber made the difference for thim [03:52] 4Save is posted [03:52] agreed [03:52] The Arnelos Policial Analysis Service suggests that Shiber got panag elected [03:52] LOL [03:52] heh [03:52] I'm going to have a Cigarette [03:53] If i had been a betting man i would have bet he would have lost, but your right the attacks garnered support and sypathy [03:53] And there wasn't a shadowy figure in the background who was egging him on, was ther Arn? [03:53] I think so. I voted no early on and after all the bruhaha wanted to change my vote! [03:54] have save [03:55] I'm glad I abstained. [03:56] Was that the longest single turn duration in this game's history? [03:56] 4 i have the save up [03:56] still downloading here... [03:57] dejon - don't know... [03:57] Time to sleep. Night all. [03:57] cya Kloreep [03:57] nite [03:57] 'gnite [03:57] 4 do you all want to still attack brundisium, it seems we still need to wait for our artillery to be upgraded to attack them [03:57] 4 i mean to attack germany [03:57] * Kloreep has quit IRC (Quit: ) [03:58] 4 arnelos can the alliance happen between chats and cna be just attack brundisium and go to bed [03:58] Arnelos, is there a subscription rate for TAPAS? (The Arnelos Political Analysis Service) [03:58] I aggre, we can pass around the save [03:58] good [03:59] 12Aggie... the alliances aren't going to take much work... [03:59] i just want to actually attack with real units in a real war, lets face it commanded them but never really go to play [03:59] the PW & CP will [03:59] ok [03:59] excellent [03:59] as long as we don't do the ULTRA-LONG CP + PW... we should be fine [03:59] ;p [04:00] or we can reconviene tommorow night [04:00] huh... spiffor's online [04:00] along with BFM [04:00] bet they have NO CLUE we're still in here :p [04:00] 4 ok i figure you will want one with aztecs [04:00] I've been posting..... [04:01] thats seems to be the only one we don't have [04:01] does Germany have any MPP's? [04:01] nope [04:03] 12checking alliances ongoing... [04:03] we should only take pot shots at their stacks with Artillary, but draw them in.... [04:03] 4:06am - I'm going to bed. Have to up and alert in 5 hours for a conference call. G'nite all. [04:03] night [04:03] g'nite [04:04] * dejon has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:04] 6Price for Alliance against Germany (from Aztecs) is Dyes [04:04] Any of you folks NOT on the west coast of the USA are Crazy [04:04] i agree, but does firing at them in there territory make the mpp not work [04:04] that's good, they weren't able to pay before [04:05] bye [04:05] * roadcage has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:05] 4 is it ok if i make alliance [04:05] with aztecs [04:05] * roadcage has joined #civ3dem [04:05] it was apporved right? [04:05] if they attack the Artilary Stack (on our land, it will) [04:05] I say go with it, we can get old america soon [04:06] 4 making alliancew with aztecs [04:07] don't know, but it will weaken them [04:07] 12Sign Alliance -vs- Aztecs for Dyes (get their WM while you're at it) [04:07] 4 alliance with aztecs for dyes fasir trade [04:07] We want to weaken everybody, but the Babs [04:07] i just don't want to invalidate the mpp by attacking them on their land, [04:08] Ill double check [04:08] 3India can pay LPT for RP [04:08] 6India requires Replaceable Parts for the alliance... but they'll pay us 33 LPT + 87 L + their WM for the deal (making them broke I believe) [04:08] sounds good [04:08] 4 is that the deal you want [04:08] Nope, jus ROPs [04:09] 3that's what I get for just RP, so it's good [04:09] 4 trade about to ahppen [04:10] 12Please sign that deal with India [04:10] The babs are doomed. They sided with rome. May Banana have pity on their souls [04:10] dumb bastards [04:10] 3Persia: they'll PAY US 12 L + WM [04:10] gobbel gobbel, they dont stand a chance [04:11] bye bye xeres [04:11] Persia is already weak enough [04:11] 4 made deal with idia as written above, by the way we can now see the whole map [04:11] so sell it around. [04:12] 12Sign alliance against germany with PERSIA. They will pay us 12 L + their WM [04:12] 4 made deal with persia [04:12] What is Persia paying for? [04:12] 3Aggie, I propose just hitting the German Stack that is on the Hill next to Hamburg, we let the ones that are on the mouintains go for now [04:12] ok, one left... [04:13] I cant wait to see the diplo screen [04:13] We need to let germany activate our MPP's [04:13] oh dont worry they will [04:13] 6QUICKPOLL: Pay Zululand 10 LPT for alliance against GErmany? [04:13] 4 i'm still worried about attacking them on their soil [04:13] NO [04:13] why? [04:13] * WhiteBandit has joined #civ3dem [04:13] no to paying zulus anything [04:13] wow, we are at war with germany? [04:13] I assume the answer is no... just wanted to see if anyone actually said yes (and gave a reason) [04:13] Can anybody be neutral? [04:14] use all the available Artillary, at Seeburg #9, with 6 Infantry & 3 Cav Gaurding them... [04:14] 4 i'm afraid that could invalidate our mpp will it [04:14] WB, yes we are [04:14] wow! how things have soured [04:14] no it shoulnt [04:14] so should we stop to access the situation or are we going to keep going? [04:15] we have mmps and germany does not correct? [04:15] * WhiteBandit really should be in bed, but had to see if the news was true! [04:15] we're stopping during this turn, that's for sure [04:15] our we sure, because thats the whole point to have them attack US fiorst [04:15] lemme check germany [04:15] We are not sure. The othe two stack will invade next turn and we will attack them on our land and the MPP's will activate next turn [04:15] I often sign MMPs right befor I attack, and they stay in tact [04:16] we can wait to be sure [04:16] thats the point I'm worried about, will attcking them first on their soild cancel the mpp [04:16] let them waltz into the Artillery fire [04:16] MSS, it's an MPP, not an MMP ;p [04:16] nope [04:16] hehe [04:16] its only 1:20 here. [04:17] yeah, i have finals tomorrow [04:17] :-/ [04:17] g-luck WB [04:17] 3Germany has no MPP's with Russia, Iroquios, or Greece... unable to tell with England, Japan [04:17] checking 1270 [04:17] Good Idea, Road cage, the same stack, just a couple of Rifle to boot [04:17] thank you :) [04:17] both of which do have mpp's with us [04:18] Germany Has NO MPP's at this time. That could change [04:18] well Arnelos, you have your job definitely cut out for you now during this next term :) [04:18] 6I don't see any German troops in our territory... [04:18] would greece or england agree to alliance that would eliminate the mpp quandry [04:18] no mpps [04:18] look at Hamburg [04:18] but is it approved? [04:19] yes [04:19] no, it's not [04:19] another quirk in the bill [04:19] then no alliance [04:19] no scandles [04:19] Damn this feels like Civ2 sometimes [04:19] We CAN sign military alliances with Russia, Japan, and the Iroquois, though (because those MPP's were illegal and their miliary alliances are covered under Line #3 of the bill) [04:20] I say that we put this to bed and come back tomorrow night and finish the turn [04:20] ok, then we move on brundisium, if there were targets on our soil i would attack, but I'm not going to risk the important greek,english mpp's [04:20] nod [04:20] The reason we CAN'T with England and Greece was that the pre-poll discussion had a bunch of people who were whinny about singing BOTH an MPP AND an alliance with England and/or Greece :p [04:20] that way we can also do some research in Vel's threads [04:20] ok [04:21] Otto will be fried soon enough [04:22] i'll post the save an we'll come back tomoorrow and am I still pres for this since it is a continuation [04:22] with all of those units in the open, it leave his cities better exposed [04:22] definitely and i see germans near aztec cities(boston) [04:22] 3Russia will only sign an alliance -vs- Germany if we pay them Saltpeter, Spices, RP, or 8 LPT [04:23] Aggie... you're already not prez :p [04:23] the mPP should take care of them [04:23] Russia is already mpp [04:23] my point exactly... it's a waste [04:23] I am gonna call it a night as you have it well in hand.. [04:23] g'nite [04:23] goodnight [04:23] that is if Germany doesn't get to them first, will they ally against us with the MPP's active? [04:24] they might [04:24] * manicstarseed has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:24] that's gotta be a major hit [04:24] plus, you have English Troops moveing towars Germany now [04:24] Well, this is an issue the new admin can argue over [04:25] Look at Abamdonment [04:25] we aren't ending the turn now ANYWAYS [04:25] I thought we were [04:25] 12I say we end the chat if people want to go to bed and pass the save to the next admin [04:25] 4 i did want the brundisium attack during this chat, tonight or tomorrow [04:25] 12E_T is SMC under new admin ANYWAYS [04:25] ending the chat, not the turn [04:26] I can still do the PW & CP if it's before I go to bed, right? [04:26] 4 posting save and have been for few minutes [04:27] Aggie, this is the outgoing-president-itis I was talking about ;p [04:27] you most certainly cna and should [04:27] :) [04:28] Our situation looks strong. [04:28] I'm fine with anything that gets done NOW being done by Term 6... but once tonight is done and we post hte save, I don't want to put the new Term's ability to do what they legally will with the save on hold [04:28] Damn English got in the way of the Advance to Stuttgart & the exploresr [04:29] I noticed [04:29] "no plan survives first contact with the enemy" :) [04:29] thats my point arnelos, uf I KNEW we wouldn't use artillery against germany I would go ahead and attack, but since I don't know I can't, so we have to end it [04:29] ok then. end it and E_T can handle that under the new Admin -anyways- [04:30] I wasn't looking at them last turn and din't think to keep a unit on that spot, gut to keep the way open [04:30] it's not as though Brundisium is such an enormous conquest after the whole of Persia and France ;p [04:30] okay im off to bed too, goodnight and goodluck with our war [04:30] * WhiteBandit has quit IRC (Quit: -) [04:30] You know, I thing that rome was headed for German Territory, when we had told them to go away.... [04:31] E_T... I think they were headed for our vulnerable inner cities, but that's just me [04:31] its possibel they were but they wouldn't got there before the modern age w/o rop and we weren't giving it [04:31] with all of the money that Germany has made from the other Civs, ther might have been getting tired of it too. [04:31] E_T, that's true... [04:32] 12So are we ending or not??? [04:32] The forums need to savor this [04:32] I agree [04:32] bed calls.... [04:32] let the Senate discuss what to do about Brundisium [04:33] bye all the war can wait till the morrow [04:33] cya roadcage [04:33] * roadcage has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:33] Aggreed, I'm out to get Germany, Rome can wait, IMHO [04:33] but the Senate deserves a chance to decide that one [04:34] 6btw... it's just the three of us again ;p (funny how that's happened a lot) [04:34] 4 chat ended [04:35] tru to, but most of the postings that I have read so far, AND unoffical polls have leaned towards defensice actions against Rome and lay all of our efforts on Germany [04:35] it does indeed and save is posted, actually the chat was over when i started posting, I protested more ina symbolic fashion [04:36] the only reason for brundisium was this, "we could", that of course is if it wouldn't take artillery away from german attack. This depends on mpp workings [04:36] Aggie gets to play at teh end, just when we end the Chat [04:36] i know i stayed up for this and didn't do my ONE goal of the night [04:37] Aggie got to be president for 9 1/2 hours after he no longer really was :D [04:37] it's not so bad [04:37] its kinda like in the SNL when they had to drag clinton from thew whitehouse [04:37] We're at war with Germany... that was the goal of the chat :D [04:37] but it will take more than just Artillary, and it's not the possibility of loosing a Cav or two, it the possibilityof haveing a lot more wounded and out of the German action for w few turns, THAT's what concerns me [04:38] true and we go there, I also wantesd to see the other mpp's activate so we were at a nice stopping point [04:38] Indeed, war with Germany was (looking back) the major policy argument and driving force throughout your entire term as President. YOU were still President when war was finally declared [04:39] and I was still FAM when I got to have the fun of encircling Germany and signing all sorts of agreements against her (which was the whole reason I wanted to do FAM) [04:39] Et that was another reason I really wanted to do it, to show every body that with artillery you can pretty much take cities quickly with virtually no loses and little injuries. There's been alot of talk of approaching cities and shelling turn after turn. But 1 turn of shelling cna leave the defenders helpsless [04:39] Personally< I would have liked to have gotten a few of the regular Factories online [04:40] yah et you accomplished quitr a bit [04:40] i just generally feel the current war plans are too cautious and counter productive, spped is the key [04:41] I agree with you there, Aggie [04:41] Also Tru, but most of the stratigy discussions were dealing with Cannon. I'm kind of surprised that we have gotten RP so soon. [04:41] E_T... you're the new SMC... just use those artillery for all they are worth [04:41] I know that all three of us agree on the utility of artillery in large numbers (though a lot of people have doubted us on that...) [04:42] I plan on it.... I made them, now I'll use them o good use [04:42] lol @ E_T :b: [04:42] The army E_T built [04:42] i hate to leave, but i do have to sleep:) and also I want to congradulate you on a wonderful term. It will be nice not to have to move all the workers around, that drove me crazy:) [04:42] LOL [04:42] LOL [04:43] Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that part... it's the most tedious part (I remember that from being VP) [04:43] It's worse on my end. I'm already haveing withdrawl symtoms.... [04:43] well i was lucky i got to be smc and pres, I was hopping to fight a war like that to, jsut missed it [04:43] Oh, that's the Nicotine... :p [04:43] ok, enough of this! To food! to Sleep! [04:44] later all [04:44] * aggie2 has quit IRC (Quit: ) [04:44] night [04:44] cya Session Close: Wed Dec 18 04:44:26 2002