Session Start: Tue Oct 01 13:45:19 2002 Session Ident: #civ3dem [13:45] * Now talking in #civ3dem [13:45] -X- AUTHENTICATION SUCCESSFUL as WhiteBand [13:45] -X- Remember: Nobody from CService will ever ask you for your password, do NOT give out your password to anyone claiming to be CService. [13:46] Heya [13:46] * VPApoc sets mode: +v WhiteBand [13:48] * adaMada (~adamada@user-0c8hl1p.cable.mindspring.com) has joined #civ3dem [13:48] ok [13:48] * VPApoc sets mode: +v adaMada [13:48] 'k, thanks Apoc [13:49] I'm going away for now, but I'll keep a log [13:49] hey there [13:49] thanks sir [13:49] as long as someone tells me how to download at the end [13:49] * Gepap (Gepap@dsc01.nyi-ny-3-86.rasserver.net) has joined #civ3dem [13:49] there we go [13:49] ok [13:49] i should be able to log too [13:49] ok, double coverage [13:49] always good :) [13:49] i'm going away now, should be back in about an hour, maybe more since I'll probably be eating directly after that [13:49] The other room is too slow for me [13:49] I keep logs too. I'm not sure when I will be able to right a report on what happened in the chat though. [13:50] Gepap - I agree, it is really laggy [13:50] The Poly room? It's like that by design [13:50] ok, maybe one of us will post a very quick summary of the major events so everyone knows [13:50] Will Togas be here? [13:50] Togas has not told me, but he left detailed orders [13:50] So it shouldn't be a problem [13:50] were? [13:50] Orders thread [13:50] check the directory for the link [13:50] OK [13:51] Wait ada, I have one question about the orders... [13:51] ok [13:51] ok, i have homework to do... just say my name if you need me [13:52] * WhiteBand is now known as Away-Band [13:52] Apoc, there's also tons and tons of FAM deps, so here's the order for who directs the chat if I recall correctly: Togas, myself, Nimitz, E_T, and GePap. Havnen't spoken to any of them recently (except GePap just now), but there are pretty complete orders on the thread, again [13:52] What does "Renegotiate Peace" mean again? [13:52] oh, ok [13:53] * VPApoc sets mode: +v Gepap [13:53] Go to diplo screen, set 'active delas', if we can renegotiate the peace deal and get cash, then do it [13:54] But why are we doing it with Greece, Aztecs, etc? [13:54] someone'll be able to explain all the steps in specific to you when the time comes, but that means that you go into diplo with the civ, go under the "active deals" screen, click the peace treaty in question, and try to negotiate for the most amount of money we can get (and anything else, of course) [13:54] we've got a standing peace deal with them -- they'll pay us for another twenty turns of it [13:54] or at least, they would before [13:54] Ahh [13:54] Just making sure. [13:54] 'k :) [13:54] good luck :D [13:55] someone'll probably be able to explain if you have any trouble -- we did it a few turnchats ago, so... [13:55] * adaMada is now known as afk-ada [13:55] going away now, good luck guys :) [13:55] apoc, quickly join civ3demministers [13:55] I don't think you'll need to use it, but let me go ahead and op you in case you do [13:56] since I'll be away, and I want to be in there logging just in case [13:56] what, just two people? this should be quick then [13:56] someone should post a 'chat is now' thread [13:56] that seems to draw a lot of people in [13:57] ok, togas is in the poly room, seems to be coming here [13:57] good luck [13:57] on second thought, i've stepped out of the ministers room -- if you've gotta use it, whoever's there first can op apoc [13:57] later all :) [13:57] Alright. I'm going to load up the game now. [13:59] I put up the thread [13:59] haha [13:59] Gepap and i both posted a chat is now thread [13:59] looks like i beat him by 1 minute! :P [13:59] Damn! clutter [14:00] Well, mine is on top! [14:00] oh... [14:00] * Away-Band considers editing his. . . [14:00] * Togas (~tom_ogas@209-78-90-10.co.tulare.ca.us) has joined #civ3dem [14:00] hey, its the FAM! [14:01] Hmmm...actually I just posted a thread for saves and stuff... [14:01] Took me forever to connect [14:01] well, the forum can always use extreneous threads [14:02] At best, I can stay until 6:30 pm, or 1830 EST [14:02] At best...not guranteed [14:02] I'm at office. Will idle sometimes for work purposes. [14:02] ok, im off to do rotten homework, if anyone needs me, say "whiteband! wb, whitey, white" or any variation thereof :P (i finally have the highlight thing correctly working [14:02] I still don't have city planning orders. [14:03] * VPApoc sets mode: +v Togas [14:04] 4Termina: Worker stack N, NE waiting for orders. Clear jungle. [14:05] 4Chiquita: Worker SE waiting for orders. Move S [14:05] * Zeit (Zeit@slip139-92-208-225.tel.il.prserv.net) has joined #civ3dem [14:05] 4Macross City: Worker stack SE waiting for orders. Irrigate tile. [14:06] 4Jerusalem: Worker W waiting for orders. Move NE. [14:07] 4Port of Malignance: Worker stack N waiting for orders. Clear jungle [14:08] 4Port of Malignance: Worker N, NE waiting for orders. Move SW to join worker stack. [14:09] Arg...this is the wrong save actually. [14:09] Tarsus isn't captured in it yet. OPD posted the old save. [14:10] I'll just have to reload what I saved. [14:11] whoops..... [14:11] * zeitan (Zeit@slip139-92-208-222.tel.il.prserv.net) has joined #civ3dem [14:11] Hmm, whats with the zeit's? [14:11] i got disconnected but my Zeit user remained as aghost... [14:11] :) [14:12] * Zeit (Zeit@slip139-92-208-225.tel.il.prserv.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [14:12] Turnchat restarts... [14:12] 4Port of Malignance: Worker stack N waiting for orders. Clear jungle [14:12] 4Port of Malignance: Worker N, NE waiting for orders. Move SW to join worker stack. [14:15] 4Termina: Worker stack N, NE waiting for orders. Make them clear jungle. [14:16] 4Chiquita: Worker SE waiting for orders. Move S [14:16] 4Jerusalem: Worker W waiting for orders. Move NE. [14:16] 4Macross City: Worker stack SE waiting for orders. Irrigate tile. [14:17] Hey Apoc: i don't think you have to write down every order... its in the thread, and there are only two other people here, Zeitan and I [14:18] 4Sell our incense to Germany for 7gpt and 9g. [14:18] I know. It is easier for the log. [14:20] 4Catapults in Contaginon move se,se and bombard longbowman. [14:20] OK [14:20] Longbowman lost 1 HP down to 2/3 [14:21] * Nimitz2 (Capt.@pool-209-128-140-140.gent.ipa.net) has joined #civ3dem [14:21] Hi [14:21] Hi there [14:21] Hey Nim [14:21] Sword in Contaginon attack Longbow on Mountain by moving se,se,e. [14:21] 4Sword in Contaginon attack Longbow on Mountain by moving se,se,e. [14:22] Kinda slow today, just orders [14:22] get him :) [14:22] Sword down to 1/4, Longbowmen destroyed [14:22] It win [14:22] we have a winner! [14:23] 4WC in Willsbury go to Contaginon and Upgraded to Knight. [14:23] I'll have to leave in about 15 min so I can't stay long [14:23] * randolph (~fortpeane@dialup902.wnskvtao.sover.net) has joined #civ3dem [14:23] Hey Randolph [14:23] hey [14:24] 4Knight 2W of Tarsus go to Contaginon and fortify. [14:24] i'm going to post some report i made about the switch to Republic [14:24] been following the board, but I haven't seen this yet [14:24] in the board [14:24] what switch? [14:25] the future switch, of course [14:25] 4Knight(5/5) in susa to 1nw of Muncie. [14:26] it seems like it would be most benefical, and that we are pretty much ready for it [14:26] Get those persians [14:26] regarding happiness [14:26] Ick. I am probably going to end this chat before the turn is ended. I have no City Planner orders and some Public Works are incomplete. [14:26] Are you there, WB? I'll need you in a second. [14:27] yes sir [14:27] 4Sword(5/5) (east of Muncie I assume) w,nw,n. [14:27] thats the problem of not having deputies [14:28] what, no city planner deputy? [14:28] 4Knight(1/4) in Susa fortify until healed. [14:28] Is there one here [14:28] there are provincial adminsitrators, havn't the done their job of city planning? [14:28] What? Our regional administrators aren't posting their orders? [14:28] I think the rez, or VP as it were, can still play even if one minister is absent: I mean, we sruvived punkbass [14:28] lol [14:29] I don't see any CP orders in the thread. [14:29] Right now I am on the order "Fortify spear in Tarsus until healthy" even though there is no spear. I am going to assume Aggie means Knight. [14:29] was he a PW minister? [14:29] well gtg bye [14:30] quit [14:30] * Nimitz2 (Capt.@pool-209-128-140-140.gent.ipa.net) Quit [14:30] 4Fortify Knight w of Tarsus in Tarsus until healthy [14:30] * Away-Band is now known as WhiteBand [14:31] 4Knight 2e of loveshack move to 1ne of Port of Malignance. [14:31] 4Knight 1n of uber n,ne,e,e,e,e. [14:32] well, are we just finishing military moves for this turn? Do any cities need to be dealt with? [14:32] 4Catapult in Nap go to Delmonte. [14:33] Well Tarsus was captured this turn. It needs orders. That is all I know for now. [14:33] Looks like he's already setting up for the American assault. [14:33] 4Pikeman in Muncie nw,n,n. [14:33] build temple in Tarsus? [14:33] well, aren't the rders ussually to starve, wait for resistance to end? [14:33] I understand if we have to end the Turnchat early, but I'll be dissapointed. I was looking forward to a Persian surrender :) [14:34] does it have a temple? [14:34] I mean, isn't tarsus in resistance? [14:34] i would think a temple would be a good choice [14:34] 4Sword in Bacteria n,ne,n (to muncie). [14:34] Reddawg authorized two temples in the Persian cities during this chat. [14:34] ok, i don't know if it needs to be rushed [14:34] Tarsus has a Barracks and an Aqueduct [14:34] you can build a temple though, it will take more than 5 turns to complete [14:34] so we can change it next turnchat if need be [14:35] cool [14:35] * dejon (dejon@24.43.111.225) has joined #civ3dem [14:35] we need the hppy face when we switch to Rep, in the future [14:36] 4Pike in Tombstone to City On A Hill [14:36] 4 Tarsus Building Temple [14:37] Posted orders completed, I think. I am going to check the orders thread now. [14:37] Tarsus won't finish anything in 5 turns, so we can create a placeholder thing, like temple [14:37] * ruby_mase (~ruby_mase@63.143.125.214) has joined #civ3dem [14:37] yeah that was my thinking exactly [14:38] Don't see anything. [14:38] WB: There are works NW of Muncie...what do you want them to do? [14:38] oh dear... i didn't give them orders? hmm [14:38] let me see [14:39] You gave 1 an order to build a road. The road was built last turnchat. [14:39] oh [14:39] i might have forgotten them [14:39] hmm, are there any squares to mine? [14:39] a tile with a shield nearby? [14:40] OH [14:40] ok [14:40] There is a shield tile directly NW of where they are at. It is not in a city radius currently. [14:40] looking at my orders thread: they need to irrigate a square [14:40] evidentally i was a turn off [14:40] It won't be in Muncie's radius for a long time too, since it is producing no culture right now and is currently building a spear. [14:40] Muncie: Worker stack NW waiting for orders. Move 3 workers NE. Move 2 workers SW. [14:41] those are orders for 440 AD [14:41] so i think my orders for munchie are going to be a turn off [14:41] How far NE and SW do you want them to move? [14:41] 1 tile [14:41] they should be empty tiles [14:41] Oh yes. I was thinking NW and SE. [14:42] because the next turn (which i have marked as 450ad):# Muncie: Workers N, irrigate square. [14:42] # Muncie: Workers W, irrigate sqaure. [14:42] Right now there are only 4 active works. 3 Persians and an American. [14:42] Which way do you want the American to go? [14:42] it doesn't matter [14:43] 4 Workers NW of Muncie: 2 Persians move NE, the other 2 movie SW. [14:43] There is a worker in Susa now. [14:43] Persia worker to be exact. [14:44] The whole Persian region is pretty built up, I suggest we move it out of the region. [14:45] You there? [14:46] [VPApoc:#civ3dem PING] [14:47] Anyway...Aggie seems to be in the Poly chat. I must go fetch him. Think up an order in the meantime. [14:47] yo [14:47] sorry, i ran away for a second [14:47] i deal with that in my 440 orders as well [14:47] man [14:47] i screwed up my orders then [14:47] let me track down orders for susa [14:48] Susa: 2 Workers waiting for orders, GOTO stack W of Muncie. [14:48] that was for 440 AD [14:48] so you'll probably find all these orders in your next turn [14:48] i wonder what the hell i was smoking [14:48] good grief [14:48] 4 2 Workers waiting for orders, GOTO stack W of Muncie. [14:49] That is it for Worker orders. I must hunt down some other orders right now though. [14:50] Anyone want to fill in for City Planner? I'm going to end the chat if no one steps up. [14:51] Anyone have the game handy? [14:51] eh, i would like to, but i have an online class im doing in the background (and a quiz i need to take for it in the next 15 minutes) [14:52] Gepap? [14:52] yes... [14:52] Wait I found an order: [14:52] 4 Cathedral rushed in Macross city. [14:52] Do you have Civ3 available? Could you fill in for the city planner? [14:52] The game and my net connection are too diferent computers [14:53] so i don't have the game handy, sorry [14:53] yuck. I'm at work right now. No game here either. :( [14:53] i can do it, but i need a current save file [14:54] Aggie is still missing. I told him to come here. [14:54] well, we are still in PW order time [14:54] Actually we are out of the PW orders. [14:54] Zeitan, you can get the current save from the the board or even Apoc. [14:55] Right now I have the following units that need orders: [14:55] okay [14:55] Knight in Contaginon [14:55] * arociv (~aroeira@200.160.238.139) has joined #civ3dem [14:55] Hi, guys! [14:55] Galley off the coast of Uber [14:55] Aro might be able to help with the City Planner stuff [14:55] Settler SE of Boomtown [14:56] What do you want? [14:56] we need a poor sap to act as city planner for the moment! [14:56] :P [14:56] That is it. 3 units need orders: Knight in Contaginon, Galley off the coast of Uber, Settler SE of Boomtown [14:56] Anyone know what these units do? [14:56] i said i can do it [14:56] abou the CP [14:56] Aro -- we're having trouble. No city planner orders. Apoc is looking for a temp CP. [14:56] * ruby_mase (~ruby_mase@63.143.125.214) Quit (Quit) [14:57] Oh, god... I don't printed the orders... If you give me 5 minutes, I'll try. [14:57] hey aro [14:57] Cool. Zeitan will take over. [14:57] Apoc -- If that knight isn't needed for defense, he should be moved towards Aggie's next target in Persia [14:57] It seems the Knight was completely forgotten. [14:58] Hey, GePap [14:58] well guys, looks like I have to go. ope all goes well: Togas, i will update the civs report from whatever save we have by thursday [14:58] * Gepap (Gepap@dsc01.nyi-ny-3-86.rasserver.net) Quit (Quit) [14:58] Zeitan is perfect for the job! :) :b: [14:58] Gepap -- Good to hear. See you soon [14:58] i have a save file posted in the end of the last turnchat [14:58] is it updated? [14:58] There seems to be an Antioch assault force created in 440 but it includes 1sw,1pike,2catapult [14:58] zeitan: that one should be fine. [14:59] Look in http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=79486882704d60e3a855015a570986ba&threadid=63423 [14:59] Just look around at all the cities that need new orders and decide if they need something else to build. [14:59] okay, i'll start working on it [15:00] Now, does anyone know what I should do with the Settler? Aro, do you know where I can find that map of where the Uber Isle cities are to be placed? [15:01] * aggie2 (aggie@209.163.196.85) has joined #civ3dem [15:01] hello all [15:01] Yay, Aggie [15:01] Aggie! [15:02] There is a Knight in Contaginon with no orders [15:02] sorry i'm late i needed to give somebody some weatherinfo [15:02] he fortifies [15:02] That is fine. [15:02] 12 how far into first turn are we [15:02] I already fortified that knight. This is a different knight. Want it fortified too? [15:02] One minute, Apoc. [15:02] We are done with all the posted orders. [15:03] 12 how did sword do against lb [15:03] 3 units have no orders though: Knight in Contaginon, Galley off the coast of Uber, Settler SE of Boomtown [15:03] It is down to 1/4 [15:03] One Cat was successful. [15:03] * roadcage (roadcage@dialup-209.245.195.37.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net) has joined #civ3dem [15:03] 12 if the sword jhad lost knight would attack, but now fortify [15:03] also did wc get upgraded [15:03] Alright [15:04] Yes the WC upgreaded [15:04] excellent [15:04] 4Knight in Contaginon fortified [15:04] so we have 3knights in contagion right [15:04] Yes, and 1 Pike. [15:04] perfect I guess i'm not needed:) [15:05] Who is in control of Galleys? [15:05] Try this: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62372&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 [15:05] Thanks Aro [15:05] *to Apoc [15:05] welll the galley can't do much, I am if ghengis is finished with them [15:06] There is a settler on the Galley but I can't find orders for either of them. [15:06] You're welcome, Apoc [15:07] well if it has settler take it to ghengis next city on uber, near the horse i believe [15:07] From the map it looks like I can guess where the Galley should move. City A right? [15:07] Send the settler to Uber Isle [15:08] Settle landed on City A site. [15:08] where is site a [15:08] Galley it is just below Another Glorious City [15:08] 12 did cities change to wc from knights [15:09] * lmtoops (~lmtoops@gate.orthofix.com) has joined #civ3dem [15:09] No. Cities like Timeline, Gaia, and Banana HQ are still producing Knights. [15:09] where is ghengis's settlement map for uber isle? [15:09] that would help us greatly [15:09] well change please [15:09] WB: It is on the link Aro posted. [15:09] ok [15:09] didn't see that :) [15:09] am i allowed to rush a Cathedral in Macross for 44g? [15:09] look here, aggie: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62372&perpage=20&pagenumber=1 [15:10] ok, im going back to doing some hw [15:10] if anyone needs me, just say so [15:10] * WhiteBand is now known as Away-Band [15:10] 12 me and GK had talked about it [15:10] Zeitan: Already done. [15:10] great [15:11] http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62372&perpage=20&pagenumber=3 [15:11] This is the new propposal of Ghengis [15:11] I have to leave for a sec...BRB. [15:11] have you finished with 430? [15:11] * Yildo (~Leons@spc-isp-tor-58-20-646.sprint.ca) has joined #civ3dem [15:11] * Yildo (~Leons@spc-isp-tor-58-20-646.sprint.ca) has left #civ3dem [15:12] I'm for the cathedral [15:12] can somebody send me the current game(saved after the moves) [15:12] 12 i think we will change the knights to wc first then the turn will be done [15:12] so please change Napoleton to courthouse [15:13] although it doesn't really matter, but i think it needs one, and i want to leave my mark as long as i'm on duty... [15:13] :) [15:13] Coffee break! ;) [15:13] 12 i need a save from someone with 1.21 [15:14] 12zeitan since oyu are filling in for GK, i need the knights changed to wc in these cities they are beong produced [15:15] hi all [15:15] back [15:15] what's up? [15:15] * afk-ada is now known as adaMada [15:15] sure, do we have reddawg approval of future upgrades? [15:15] what's going on? [15:15] lot of new names here -- always great to see [15:15] not right now, but these wc are being made to attack america and get ga [15:15] so they won't be upgraded till much later [15:16] it is nice to see our little nation growing [15:16] Back [15:16] change all the knight production to WC, this is an order... :) [15:16] thanks zeitan [15:17] Ada, are you afk-ada? ;) [15:17] Apoc should post the current game after the end of the turn. [15:17] After looking at the orders, it looks like City F is next. [15:17] I'll move the Galley there. Any objections? [15:17] at your (and apolytonia) service [15:17] i was afk ada [15:17] not from me, Apoc [15:17] ok that will work [15:17] i'm afk ada when i'm afk :) [15:18] right now, i' mada :) [15:18] I know. I am going to post the save right after I fix this Settler/Galley problem. [15:18] Togas, Apoc, anything huge happen? [15:18] afk [15:18] 'k [15:18] what's the Settler/Galley problem? [15:18] City F is already there [15:19] I see that now. [15:19] Damn, I wish I had current orders. [15:19] what is city F? [15:19] Place the Settler on Cite A then? [15:19] zeitan, city F is a city location on Ghengis's City Chart [15:19] he posted his order that he wanted them colonized somewhere -- want me to try to find it? [15:20] look in the Ghengis map here http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62372&perpage=20&pagenumber=3 [15:20] i see... [15:20] well there were 6 cities we now have 4 so i say the one nearest where the seller is now [15:21] Last orders I see are B, E, D, then A [15:21] Agreed [15:21] A is the nearest but is last on that list. [15:21] in that case go to the other one [15:22] I'll move the Galley to site D. [15:22] good deal [15:22] You're right, D is the next [15:22] well ghengis can't complain since he didn't leave orders [15:22] ghengis is on apolyton, btw [15:22] i think [15:22] THe other settler is right now Site E so I will build a city. [15:22] no time to send him a pm though :-\ [15:23] 4 Galley moved South [15:23] 4 Settler builds Site E [15:23] i see you already made some serious planning on colonizing Uber, good work. [15:24] yep [15:24] What do you want to build in Site E? [15:24] Doesn't really matter right now though. [15:24] 4Turn Endable [15:24] OK with me to end turn [15:24] k [15:25] 12 no objextions [15:25] fine by me [15:25] 4 Turn ended. [15:25] I'll post a save now [15:25] did we do VODKA? [15:25] ok, i never had a chance to check the City Planner thread... [15:25] WTF is Vodka, anyhow? [15:25] someone tell me what VODKA actually WAS please :) [15:26] it's supposed to be in the city planner thread, but never was able to check/find it [15:26] ya'll started at 21gmt(1 1/2 ago) [15:26] I didn't get what it was even when searching through that thread [15:26] Moving Hole In Wall 1 tile south. Gives immediate access ti wheat, etc [15:26] ah, ok [15:26] Vodka is an alcoholic beverage, but in this case irt was building a settler at cherbourgh and moving him 1sw to found new city on coast [15:26] he keeps asking about doing that [15:26] good plan [15:27] lol, i guess people listen if he gives it a fancy code name :D [15:27] why was he keeping it a secret [15:27] LOL, I gotta try that sometime [15:27] ? [15:27] straight sough is better, but sw is ok [15:27] no secret, just role playing [15:27] should we put it to work? [15:27] And a lot of heads in danger... lol [15:27] Ghengis/GK get to decide, I think, and GK said it was in IIRC... [15:27] I'll check the GK said it was in [15:28] i might have remeber the direction wrong if south is better s it is [15:28] it costs what ever it costs to rush a settler at HIW. If it works out we get a real city. The risk is some Civ will wake up and attack it in present or future location [15:29] has Apoc posted the new save? [15:29] Not yet. [15:29] Hold on. [15:29] Persia is building Bach. [15:29] Apoc, I'll check and see if GK approved Ghengis' plan or not [15:29] In Arbela. [15:29] What?! [15:29] 12 he did [15:30] Persia is building JS Bach's?? [15:30] ok [15:30] Persia's building Bachs? [15:30] 12 what morons [15:30] what city? [15:30] "then we have green light for VODKA, i repeat we have green light. " [15:30] I can't believe they're that far ahead in tech. [15:30] lol, can we leave it till last? :D [15:30] Togas, they're trading [15:31] and it's extra tech we can take from them [15:31] it makes me happy :D [15:31] I'd like to steal it from the, but we'd need the prereq first to get it. [15:31] i guess there's no AI expert who could see that coming [15:31] Save posted. [15:31] No, to get music theory from them you will have toi get education from somebody first [15:32] Confirming (yet again) that GodKing agreed to GF's plan 'if it's feasable' [15:32] exactly, and Education is still extremely expensive. [15:32] Togas, remember how much? [15:32] New turn orders. [15:32] What if we offset it with a Dyes to Germany? [15:32] last I checked, in the 22gpt range [15:32] They were paying us a TON for that a bit ago [15:32] France offers 22 Gold and WM for our Wines. [15:32] Does anyone else have wines? [15:32] i mean, does everyone else have wines? [15:33] i thought the answer was yes, but did anything change? [15:33] 12 HOLD OFF on wine trade to France. We will check other markets [15:33] i can't see a 440 save what thrad is it in [15:33] Does anyone have the save so they can check other wine trade possibilities? [15:33] Wait. [15:33] If you do VODKA, once in new loc work the wheat, and build a worker asap. When worker is done road the tile se of CURRENT city site. Completes road link via russia/france [15:33] Poly is being slow. [15:33] Sorry Togas, can't today [15:33] Got an essay to write [15:34] It is posted. Check the thread entitled "Turnchat 430 AD" [15:34] 10 Is there anyone in the chat who has Civ3 available and can check the save right now to see if we can get a better deal for wines? [15:34] And while they do that, please check if there's anyone who has wines and also Edu. [15:34] i mean, doesn't have wines and has edu [15:35] i am downlaoding the new save togas i'll try to see trade poss when i have it running [15:35] YES. If someone wants wines, see if we can't get a discount on Edu. [15:35] Thanks Aggie [15:35] I want a shot at Music Theory and whatever else those damned Persians have. [15:35] Thanks, Aggie [15:36] Can we steal tech yet, or is that a modern age thing? [15:36] Babylon is the only other Civ we can sell Wines to. [15:36] It offers a WM. [15:36] ah, it'd probably be too expensive... [15:36] We can also sell our only Incense. [15:37] game loaded... [15:37] Togas, my recomendation is holding onto wines for now; Babylon might get a tech before too long, they've got decent infastructure [15:37] Actually that won't work too well. [15:37] I'd prefer to keep the Incense for us. I know Rome will pay for it -- can we get a temple rushed in the south of Persia so we can expand our borders to that lase Incense and trade it? [15:37] listen right after this turn order I'll be gone for aliitle bit, an urgent call came in, and I actually have to work:), but i can do orders first [15:38] I agree. We'll check for a wine trade in two turns. See if something good comes up. (unless Aggie finds something in the mean time) [15:38] Anyone find some CP orders yet? All I can find is that Macross builds a Courthouse now. [15:38] * VPApoc sets mode: +v aggie2 [15:38] grr -- real decision, so I've got to go [15:38] Apoc, GK posted a thread on it [15:38] lol, i mean, and i've got to go [15:39] 12 listen the only change in ordeds from lsit is a pike go cityonhill from tombstone [15:39] http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63371 [15:39] Could we spend a worker and make a colony? [15:39] Aro -- Very good idea! [15:39] GK gives general guidance, and then has to choose [15:39] Aro, good thought [15:40] you still need me for CP? [15:40] Oh... thanks! ;) [15:40] * lmtoops (~lmtoops@gate.orthofix.com) has left #civ3dem [15:40] Let's see if white is still listening .... [15:40] yo! [15:40] Togas, my recomendation is that we need Edu. before we take Persia, but not before then, so we might want to keep a few luxs and then trade just before we enter the war at a good price [15:40] * Away-Band is now known as WhiteBand [15:40] 12 i request we rush temp in muncie that will give us incense in 5 [15:40] lol, white got his thing fixed, I guess :D [15:40] anyway, sorry to go at this very bad time, but gotta eat [15:40] will be back in a few [15:40] haha yeah i did :) [15:40] * adaMada is now known as afk-ada [15:41] Hi, Whitebandit [15:41] anyways, what is going on? [15:41] Whitebandit -- you mind if we make a colony on the incense? [15:41] good luck! [15:41] go for it [15:41] 12 also pike in muncie was suppose to goto contag last turn(on the way, please move him [15:41] 3/3 sowrd goto muncie [15:42] 12 3/3 sword in bacteria to muncie, and we have no choice but to leave contagion undefended this turn [15:42] 12 apike must be with units [15:42] Oh... [15:43] 12 ok instead of pike ss of conta move pike IN contag with troops a [15:43] 12 also move 1/4 sword back to conta [15:43] Hold on... [15:43] I was looking for Cherbourg. [15:44] Been renamed Hole in Wall [15:44] Oh right. [15:44] Contaginon is too close to antioch, and AIs seems to know where is the undefendant cities [15:44] 12 no choice [15:44] k, so [15:44] 12 an enemy can;'t throught he army anyway [15:44] Rushbuilding Settler in HiW. [15:44] Cool [15:44] 12 were the pike and muncie orders missed or what [15:45] colony on the incense is a good idea [15:45] Those orders must have been missed. [15:45] Yeah, give me that colony and I'll either sell that stuff off for 6gpt, or try to get a good deal on Education. [15:45] 12 my orders are still intacjk and we will have a sword/pike(4/4) and2 cata 1n of contagion [15:46] Alright. I am ready for SMC orders finally again. [15:46] what happened to the red colored orders Apoc? [15:46] did we build the colony? [15:46] 4Rushbuilt settler in HiW [15:46] 12 here are the orders that are differnet , the rest are as given on the commands [15:46] 12 Pike in muncie goto contag [15:46] pike in conta n [15:47] 4Moved Muncie pike north to Gontag [15:47] 12 pike in conta n [15:47] I didn't build the colony. [15:47] 12 cata to where pike is [15:47] 12 pike in tombstone to city on hill and fortify [15:48] You want that Contag Pike to move north toward Antioch? [15:48] That would be nw, not just n. [15:48] 12 yes just 1n though so the cata and sword can catch up [15:48] 12 NO [15:48] 12 that is 1n [15:48] 4Moved Contag pike 1 N [15:49] what next? [15:49] 12 cata to that pike [15:49] 4 pike in tombstone to city on hill and fortify [15:50] * Arnelos (Arnelos@pool-138-88-49-179.res.east.verizon.net) has joined #civ3dem [15:50] hey [15:50] 4 Cats moved to Pike [15:50] 12 move 5/5 sword to pike/cata group [15:50] 4move 5/5 sword to pike/cata group [15:50] 12 3/3 sword in bacteria to munciw [15:51] 4 3/3 sword in bacteria to munciw [15:51] 12 pike in susa goto tarsus [15:51] 12 rest of orders as written I believe, please double check [15:51] 4pike in susa goto tarsus [15:51] 12 I have an urgent call to deal with be back soon [15:51] Knight 2e of ghengis town move e,e, and fortify? [15:52] * GodKing (GodKing@dialup-63.212.146.160.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) has joined #civ3dem [15:52] City on a hill now [15:52] I live!!!!!! [15:52] Thank god. [15:52] I have orders!!!!! [15:52] Hey GK [15:52] been replacing you for a while GK [15:52] On problem GK, HiW didn't build settler until 440 [15:52] Where are you at. THanks Seit [15:52] 440 [15:52] y12 yes those 2 are going to join the attack on antioch, so they will wait there [15:52] Hey gk! [15:53] 12 that is also 2w of contagion [15:53] 4Knight 2e of ghengis town move e,e, and fortify [15:53] 12 i need to go [15:53] bye [15:53] 12 I am typing orders up now. I can PM, email or what not to Apoc. How to handle - will take me another 10 minutes to type. They start at 430, so some adjustment may be needed. [15:53] 12 i'll be back in about 10min [15:53] bye, aggie [15:54] bye [15:54] bye aggie [15:54] * aggie2 (aggie@209.163.196.85) has left #civ3dem [15:54] Just PM. Checking e-mail takes too long. [15:54] i suggest GK to build Market on Gaia after the chariot, but of course that's up to you GK [15:54] Ok. Wait a few and I will finish typing. Thanks all. [15:55] ouch. i just got a 40% on my test [15:55] ah hem [15:55] anyways [15:55] Civ time! [15:55] :-D [15:55] will keep this open, so let me know if you need anything..... [15:55] anyway, you've come just in time, i gtg now, bye everyone and goodluck [15:55] bye, zeitan! [15:55] Thanks again zeitan!! [15:55] it's zeit, for you [15:56] * chamonix (chamonix@h138n1fls32o826.telia.com) has joined #civ3dem [15:56] * zeitan (Zeit@slip139-92-208-222.tel.il.prserv.net) Quit (Quit) [15:56] good evening [15:56] Welcome, chamonix [15:57] hmm... did you all notice I'm here :p [15:57] a lot of activity here it seems :) [15:57] Hi, Arnelos! You was so quiet... ;) [15:58] hi Arnelos! [15:58] Hmmm...I don't know what the EKF is :( [15:58] wow, we have quite a turnout today [15:58] Arnelos I was thinking that shadow service did take care of you... [15:58] ::chuckle:: [15:59] WAit, never mind [15:59] (after the events of last week, however... I think it best for those of us who are NOT ministers to shut up unless we really need to speak...) [16:00] it was a frickin' shouting match in here last week... [16:01] too much banana peel smoking... ;) [16:01] back from my idle at work. Have we ended turn yet? [16:02] nope [16:02] 10 any major events CP wise as I am typing my orders and may make some adjustments.... [16:02] Just that HiW didn't rush build the settler until 440 (this turn) [16:03] 4EKF moved NE [16:03] Shouldn't make a difference.... did it? [16:04] back [16:04] Well, yes. Plans go into effect 1 turn later. [16:04] trades 4 gold for 1 turn [16:04] * afk-ada is now known as adaMada [16:04] GK! [16:04] glad to see you [16:04] I am thinking what to do with the Knight W of Tarsus. I doin't see orders for it. [16:05] Hi ada - I found a TA to teach for me.... am typing orders now. [16:05] * Ghengis (~GhengisFa@ip68-12-229-156.ok.ok.cox.net) has joined #civ3dem [16:05] wow! [16:05] you ditched class for civ [16:05] Hi [16:05] i love you [16:05] Ghengis! Hi! [16:05] hey Ghengis [16:06] I may leave, all I got was WB saying "I love you" [16:06] haha [16:06] Ghengis, how you doing [16:06] no no [16:06] that was for GodKing [16:06] GF YGPM [16:06] do you need privacy? [16:06] haha [16:06] oh dear [16:06] this is all wrong [16:06] talking about coming in at the wrong part of the conversation [16:07] no but that is how I sent my analisis, seeing that it was roleplauying [16:07] Why thank you.... [16:07] how many turns have you played? [16:07] LOL [16:07] one [16:07] This is the second [16:08] did Hole switch to a settler? [16:08] i think im going to quite my job as PWM next term and become an official jester [16:08] Yep [16:08] i think the pay is higher [16:08] lol [16:08] of course job security might be better too. i don't have to worry about being voted out of office. Jester is for life (you don't make someone laugh, you die). [16:09] switched and rushed [16:09] *@Ghengis [16:09] WhiteBand: Pay would be higher, but that part of the $-mini-game never got approved -- Ghengis, how DID we manage to forget salaries for Directory Organizers and Vice Ministers, the most important job in the game? :-D :-D [16:09] *WhiteBandit [16:09] WhiteBand works :) [16:09] * Yildo (~Leons@spc-isp-tor-58-18-709.sprint.ca) has joined #civ3dem [16:10] Ah [16:10] hi Yildo! [16:10] welcome, Yildo [16:10] What up? [16:10] what aro? [16:10] The settles was rushed, Ghengis. One turn [16:10] what is a "yildo" or do I want to know....... [16:10] *settler [16:10] a yildo is a settler? [16:11] It's my short form of "Yildirim":) [16:11] No, an Emperor [16:11] Yep, Yildo is a settler... ;) [16:11] * Yildo is now known as StLeo [16:11] Listen, I am sorry. I'll have to end the chat. [16:11] DOH! [16:11] What? [16:11] ok [16:11] The orders are all screwy and I have other things I really need to do. [16:11] are we done then? [16:12] guess so :) [16:12] Just be sure not to finish the turn [16:12] * GK (GodKing@dialup-166.90.231.86.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) has joined #civ3dem [16:12] yea, don't end turn, I'm sure we'll have stuff to do pre-end [16:12] Yildo was a settler who became an emperor who became a settler who became a Saint [16:12] I'll post the final save. [16:12] lol [16:12] That makes sense:) [16:12] 12 - forgot, if I do nothing on internet, then I get disconnected after 20 minutes. [16:12] ok [16:12] thanks apoc [16:12] Do I have to own Civ3 to be in here?:) [16:12] I am sorry. This is partially my fault. [16:13] Apoc - is it the g/f? [16:13] tell her to sod off! [16:13] No problems, Apoc [16:13] this is civ! [16:13] * chamonix (chamonix@h138n1fls32o826.telia.com) Quit (Read error: EOF from client) [16:13] hah [16:13] StLeo, no -- you probably should be a member of the demogame, but no one will mind if you observe anyway [16:13] see what it's all about :) [16:13] yeah Apoc, WhiteBandit loves you. [16:13] haha [16:13] lol [16:13] this is how rumors get started [16:13] lol [16:13] * GodKing (GodKing@dialup-63.212.146.160.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) Quit (Ping timeout) [16:14] lol [16:14] oh, this rumor already building up steam......... [16:14] i noticed [16:14] :-/ [16:14] Ghengis's gotta give the Shadow Service SOME job [16:14] so they don't get bored [16:14] you gotta understand, White, it's nothing personal ;) [16:14] oh i do! it's the game of politics! [16:14] strictly business [16:15] Well, not strictely. There's some fun too... [16:15] :D [16:15] hehe [16:15] you wanna see personal wait till next election and all domestic ministers are running for the same job! [16:15] you have a point there, ghengis... [16:15] haha, well it looks like i've already lost then! [16:15] well not really [16:15] i love everyone! [16:16] <--- friendly [16:16] MoE, MoIE, MoCP, MoPW, etc [16:16] Nawww, Mongo straight... [16:16] what movie is that from? [16:17] blacing sattles! [16:17] err [16:17] good god [16:17] blazzing saddles [16:17] there [16:17] haha [16:17] LOL, good point [16:17] that is such a great movie [16:17] I really liked the Mongo character [16:17] we're gonna have some exciting elections [16:17] pfft, i doubt it [16:17] i think we ALL should run for president next election [16:17] The Undernet would be a good place for an Apolyton room [16:17] I am already belong to one community on it:) [16:17] I can see a lot of candidates here... ;) [16:17] 4Save posted, turnchat ended. [16:17] If the new Constitution cuts down the number of offices to 4, we will definately have some exciting elections. [16:18] yea [16:18] Thanks, Apoc! [16:18] i hope so, anyway [16:18] yeah [16:18] ::agrees with Togas:: [16:18] im mixed on that though [16:18] everyone shoulf run for Foreign Minister [16:18] cause that is a HUGE workload on everyone [16:18] oh geesh... [16:18] Don't thank me. I really screwed up. [16:18] na, it's cool -- Screw-ups make turnchats go round :D [16:18] The more candidates run for FAM, the more benefit of being an incumbent :) [16:18] I think A LOT of people are going to just sit out the election and ask for appointed posts... it could be more boring than you suspect [16:18] lol, that's one way of thinking about it... [16:18] 12 orders posted, sending a pm now..... [16:18] Why? I can't see this. [16:19] They might [16:19] I think we'll have at least two people per spot though [16:19] maybe [16:19] *@Apoc [16:19] yeah, probably at least 2... which beats some previous races [16:19] And that's ok, Togas has a monopoly on the Foreign Ministry job [16:19] people are scared of running :-/ [16:19] Hold on. Save isn't posting well. [16:19] I mean, think about it -- appointing like twenty deputies this term? [16:19] *term [16:19] coincidence? I think not ;) ;) [16:20] i like PW. I'm everyone elses bitch! [16:20] hehe [16:20] think of the bribes you could get! [16:20] Every term I plan to add a few more deputies to our Ministry Payroll. We will be the nation's foremost bureaucracy! :) [16:20] lol [16:20] lol [16:20] lol, so far our expansion's something like 400% [16:20] reddawg should do stats on our inflating government [16:20] I already added 2 this week [16:20] CP - people hate this job... I have about 6-7 hate pm's saved. [16:20] Every great Civ have great bureaucracy [16:20] eventually, every single citizen will be a bureacrat of some form... sorta like Southern Italy [16:20] Arg. Stupid slow connection. WOn't post save. [16:21] each Deputy's gonna either vote for Togas or be discharged, which'll screw their chance of getting elected -- it's all in the plan [16:21] what's unfortunate is that I have 4 people who wanted FAM jobs that didn't get one. I can't think of any jobs to give 'em! [16:21] Why did they send hate pms [16:21] Or Brazil, Arnelos [16:21] VPApoc - DCC it to me [16:21] if possible [16:21] didn't like my choices... didn't like me.... who knows. it is only a game. [16:21] yeah... [16:21] GK, it's only the strange people, don't worry about it [16:22] Sounds like the kind of abuse Onortho was getting [16:22] the rest of the nation likes you, WhtieBandit more than some others... [16:22] lol, j/k j/k [16:22] maybe it's only 1 person pretending to be multiple people hating you? [16:22] * WhiteBand looks around innocently [16:22] HAHA right [16:22] the $Mini-game people like WB cause he can improve our lands [16:22] Ahh finally I think the save is posted. [16:22] no it isn't. several "respected" people have contributed, particularlu in regards to what I did with the regions. [16:22] yeah i was thinking about that [16:22] Save is posted. [16:22] if people give me moeny, i can make their tiles worth more [16:23] that's interesting, GK... well, I haven't been around long enough to have a reason to hate you yet ;p [16:23] I didnt send any hate pms. Not about the regions anyway [16:23] WhiteBandit, I won't trade away all your workers if you improve my tile... :D [16:23] afk [16:23] haha [16:23] yea, I dunno who GK (not suggesting you should tell us), but I have no problems with what you've done and do [16:23] it's a win-win situation for me :P trade away all my workers and i can't improve your tile anyway [16:23] you've always been very receptive [16:23] lol [16:23] nobody on this chat did.... [16:23] then i'll get a promotion for brillent trades :D [16:24] Guys, I am really sorry for what happened in the chat today. [16:24] lol [16:24] nope, nobody here did. [16:24] Apoc - it's fine! [16:24] why what happened [16:24] sh*t happens, don't worry about it [16:24] Not your fault, Apoc!!! [16:24] this is 1 of the largest turnchats ever too [16:24] Apoc, it's ok -- no biggie [16:24] I appologize also. i screwed up dates and didn't get orders on time. [16:24] not your fault, no one's fault [16:24] we held a turnchat so they shouldn't be able to impeach you [16:24] but so far it is pretty sane [16:24] No one'll impeach you [16:25] Well, we have time to think about that colonie of incense [16:25] most of the players are reasonable... [16:25] and those that aren't are outnumbered [16:25] like Arnelos said, sh*t happens [16:25] Actually the CP stuff wasn't much of a problem. I really should have stopped at the end of 430 though. [16:25] the Shadow Service will kill the rest [16:25] exactly [16:25] lol [16:25] lol [16:25] If i am impeached, can I run for office again? [16:26] sure [16:26] actually, yes... the CoL doesn't prohibit it :) [16:26] Who's going to impeach GK? [16:26] lol, GK didn't think of getting himself impeached before [16:26] will impeach you again though [16:26] You'll have my support! [16:26] he'll impeach himself [16:26] some cushie job, not like CP!!! [16:26] But really, I should have done better in this chat. I probably should have scheduled it later so I could sort out the orders. [16:26] oh well, some of Ninot's didnt go well either [16:27] Apoc, it's seriously cool -- don't worry about it. Not your fault. No one'll give you heat, and if they do then I, for one, will be against them in it [16:27] im going to run for something easy next term [16:27] Term two's turnchats were horrible [16:27] like... [16:27] minister of science! [16:27] Some of Ninot's didn't go well, some of MWIA's didn't... [16:27] i can show up once a month and go "errm. yeah!" [16:27] never made it for one of trips [16:27] Time to play "Come Sweet Death"....from the Soundtrack of my favorite movie. It seems fitting right now. If only random little kid drawings could appear on my screen. [16:27] there is no minister of science [16:27] lol @ whiteband [16:27] Thud is MoS [16:27] just Foreign and Domestic [16:27] like beer [16:27] ohh, under the new system, yea [16:28] at least, that's what most people seem to think [16:28] the real CC documents are classified [16:28] OH [16:28] ;)( [16:28] the "new system" [16:28] I knew it! [16:28] The new regime [16:28] more secrets!!!! [16:28] i promise to love you guys if you eliminate term limits :P [16:28] Plan A2 (Dictatorship, head adaMada) has almost been agreed to [16:28] you have my vote! [16:28] I'm killing term limits :) [16:28] na, if we eliminate term limits, I'll never overthrow Togas and become FAM ;) :D [16:28] ratification will be a b*tch, though [16:28] you've loved half the people here already [16:29] Togas - Yes! [16:29] haha [16:29] I'll be Vice FAM forever and ever and ever [16:29] lol [16:29] Perhaps, perhaps. As long as I can keep you around [16:29] adaMada - but vice FAM holds more prestige and honor than PWM :P [16:29] SlutBandit :) [16:29] * WhiteBand is now known as SlutBand [16:29] there. [16:30] LOL [16:30] lol [16:30] LMAO [16:30] seriously, we public works people are dirty [16:30] which brings up the following issue... the CC is apparently having *enough* problems on agreeing to anything themselves... wait 'til they have to sell it publicly?... [16:30] :) [16:30] Anyway, I'm leaving now to do RL work. [16:30] Public I guess won't be as hard. [16:30] take it easy Apoc! [16:30] Nice seeing you here StLeo. [16:30] lol, Arnelos, who said everyone's gonna have to agree? THat's the beauty of Plan 2A! [16:30] Dictatorship [16:30] later Apoc [16:30] Again, sorry for what happened today. [16:30] Bye, Apoc. [16:30] chill, it's cool [16:30] it's fine, no one here is angry [16:30] NBD Apoc. bye [16:30] One nice thing about the CC is that there's only 4 of us. But we are going to have to sell the hell out of this thing when it's done. [16:30] bye everybody! [16:31] See ya, mon [16:31] I have to go too. Dinner! [16:31] well, it's only 2/3... so I guess we can ignore *certain people* [16:31] * Ghengis (~GhengisFa@ip68-12-229-156.ok.ok.cox.net) Quit [16:31] bye folks [16:31] * VPApoc (wmoeller@AC83B4DB.ipt.aol.com) Quit (Quit) [16:31] Togas - I'll let you guys use the phrase "WhiteBandit will love you!" [16:31] bye [16:31] * randolph (~fortpeane@dialup902.wnskvtao.sover.net) Quit (Quit: Java Chat http://www.undernet.org/webchat.php) [16:31] * SlutBand is now known as WhiteBand [16:31] :P [16:31] anyways, i think i shall depart [16:31] LOL [16:31] UT2K3 is out today ya know! [16:31] ok, i'm here to stay for a few more if anyone wants to talk [16:31] really? I'll have to check it out... [16:32] * roadcage (roadcage@dialup-209.245.195.37.Dial1.Houston1.Level3.net) has left #civ3dem [16:32] I will stay for a few. I skipped class for this. [16:32] See you, guys [16:32] later aro [16:32] I've got 30 mins. Will stick around. [16:32] would be willing to discuss my personal views on the CC if anyone wants to, but cannot speak for what we're actually doing in the top secret room [16:32] (which, in my case, means I'll get a friend to burn it for me ;) ) [16:32] later Aro [16:32] * arociv (~aroeira@200.160.238.139) Quit (Quit) [16:32] haha [16:32] nicee [16:32] sure ada... I'd be very interested [16:32] Sweetage [16:32] ada - what has been agreed to? [16:33] very little [16:33] lots of ideas [16:33] lots of close consensuses [16:33] lots of close ideas but not identical [16:33] we're not necessarially far, just not much set in stone [16:33] so in other words [16:33] nothing? [16:33] Also, i was going to post a discussion about city names, what do you have on this? [16:34] Don't think we've talked about city names -- it might be worth bringing up [16:34] OK. I will start the discussion. [16:34] personally, I'd leave it to the Senate (players) to pass a law about how they'll deal with city names [16:34] but that's just a personal thing [16:34] We have CONCEPTS and PRINCIPLES mostly in place. I'd say we're close to 40% done. [16:34] yea -- the writing probably won't take that long [16:35] previous it was voted to let the ministers name, but that just doesn;t work now. [16:35] I like the minister naming system actually -- think it lets people leave their mark on the game [16:35] Same here, but the ministers are repeats now for the most part. [16:35] I want to note that people are going to be dissapointed by this document. It will not be an end-all-be-all of Apolytonian law covering every subject in absurd detail. [16:36] so make it only so that newly appointed ministers get to name 1 city each [16:36] THANK THE BANANA!! [16:36] I don't doubt it, Togas [16:36] but I honestly don't think everyone expects that... [16:37] To get a plurality of citizens to pass it, it needs to be vague and it needs to set forth only in broad strokes what the INTENT of the law is. The people, in the end, will have to color in the details piece by piece. [16:37] I'm sure SOME issues will be worked out, but others will not... that's just the nature of the beast [16:37] yep [16:37] an idea that I like, at least, is the idea of letting the senate decide most gameplay things outside of the CoL [16:38] Arnelos, in term 1, there was only 4 cities and 9 ministers. term 2 added the justices, and combined finance. In term 3 all previous ministers got their names. Term 4 we ran out of names and have 6+/- cities to name still - bacteria!!!!! what kind of a name is this. [16:38] I also like that idea. [16:38] True, GK... [16:38] right now, it's either in the CoL or it's not illegal -- it seems to make more sense to let the people choose details on their own [16:38] ok, ok, i admit, it's Togas' idea [16:38] I'm hijacking, it's what I do best ;) [16:38] ;) [16:38] :) [16:39] Have you talked about a minister to coordinate with other demo games? [16:39] My main beef with current city names is Contaginon... it's spelled wrong! [16:39] lol, seriously, didn't want to speak for you, but I basically agree with you on that idea [16:39] Are we writing this for the PTW game as well? [16:39] Haven't discussed game play outside of this game at all. [16:40] I think of the CC as setting us up more for the future than in this game. [16:40] I thought the PTW game'd have it's own, but it'd be nice to have an poly-wide one for Civ3 [16:40] let that be an issue we explore when we're working on setting up a PTW demogame... no need to spend your time on that now [16:40] My personal feelings are that the NEXT Civ3Dem game on Poly will be PTW. [16:40] (especially if you're only partially done on THIS game's stuff) [16:40] yea, I hope they wait till the end of this one [16:41] if they don't, we'll loose a lot of people, I think [16:41] We can learn from other demo games. Learn lots of how to set things up. PtW will most likely be the next demo game. [16:41] * aggie2 (aggie@209.163.196.200) has joined #civ3dem [16:41] and people who'll do both (I will) will have their time split [16:41] ok i'm back [16:41] I thing this game will finish on 1.21 [16:41] hey [16:41] not cool at all [16:41] GK, how much longer do you think to finish? [16:41] well minor cris solved unitl next call [16:41] at this rate - 3-5 months. [16:41] yep :) [16:41] where is apol [16:41] yea, I'm thinking end of school year for this one [16:42] Aggie -- the chat had to end, something came up with Apoc [16:42] aggie - game over for now. apoc had to leave. [16:42] ok how far did we get [16:42] Hmm [16:42] partway of 440 [16:42] not far. [16:42] i hope its nothing serious [16:42] Apoc was very non-specific [16:42] ok [16:42] prolly mom or GF [16:42] I don't think so. [16:42] I don't think so, I think he just had to go [16:43] alright [16:43] sounded like comp. problems along with poor organization (a lot of which is my fault). [16:43] it happens... so we're discussing CoL stuff now [16:43] well inow about that [16:43] Right [16:43] ah :) [16:44] ada - repeat, at the rate we are going, I think we will finish in 3-5 months. [16:44] sorry, didn't answer the first time [16:44] so between late December and early March... roughly [16:44] yea, 3-5 sounds about right [16:44] sounds about right though turns can get slow later if there is awar [16:45] I think closer to 5 :) [16:45] who here thinks they'll play the next DG after this one (even if it's PTW)? [16:45] Yep. but 20-30 turns can pass in peace, just let the prez play with some build ques. [16:45] yea, I agree on that -- we should give the VP a bit of power [16:45] I like the idea of a PtW demo game. [16:45] most likely thats what will happen [16:45] ada... I think it will depend on the talks between the various sites about timing for setting up an inter-site game [16:46] I like the idea of PTW, but it's going to be a bitch to organize. I'm definately interested [16:46] I would lie a ptw game even of I don't have ptw YET [16:46] biggest thing is scheduling the 2-5 prez's to play at the same time. [16:47] also what about spying [16:47] PM's can handle most spying. [16:47] question about PTW... I know the two new units (aside from UUs) are a modern commando unit and some "middle age infantry"... what is that infantry, anyone know? [16:47] upgrades for swords. [16:47] I know that... but anyone know stats or other info on it? [16:47] not yet out [16:48] alrighty then [16:48] they will be offence though. [16:48] I'm planning on getting it pretty soon after it comes out... I don't yet have a full-time job, so this is the perfect time for me to waste a week of my life on it :p [16:48] re spying - we mostly have to trust the other sites to not cheat, just like we trust people to not play ahead. [16:48] Aren't full time jobs great? :) [16:49] in a few months, that option will be closed for me... [16:49] Love mine!!! [16:49] yea, me too -- I'd be involved in a PTW game, but I might not have PTW, so... [16:49] maybe --- maybe spying should be part of the game? [16:49] yeah... it has to be an honor system [16:50] I think the big effect will be that lots more orders will be passed by PM [16:50] a lot more "TOP SECRET" documents, etc [16:50] I think we will have two PtW games. One in house only, another out house, as MarkG doesn;t like the idea of playing other sites. [16:50] MarkG doesn't? [16:50] why not? [16:50] He said so. Competition I think. [16:50] Afraid people will switch to other sites.... [16:51] ah... because poly is currently the dominant site... [16:51] yep. civfan is a close second [16:52] If they loose people, they loose advertising, thus $ [16:52] yup [16:53] I think the CC is going to pass around the time of the end of this game - so I would like to see something involving PtW, but only basic stuff. [16:53] well, how do WE handle that, then? [16:53] I'd hope that CC would be before that [16:53] I hope to see CC by end of this month. [16:53] 3 months - the CC has already taken 1 month, and is only 40%. the easy 40 i would guess [16:53] if our host doesn't want us playing other sites on his site... what do we do? [16:54] yes and no -- this 40% includes a LOT of the debate [16:54] Arnelos - we do it, and we stick with poly. Once markg sees that it isn't bad, then he may chang his mind. [16:55] this is true, but he does have veto power over whether we do it AT ALL [16:55] * StLeo is now known as Yildirim [16:55] I'd say between one and two months... another half month to finish the debate (moving much faster suddenly), a month to write, and then however long it takes for approval [16:56] (at least using poly as our locale) [16:56] Arnelos - he has veto power in letting us organize, but not in playing. I have used civfanatics (his competition) and IMO poly is better. This will I would think bring more people to poly [16:56] Sorry to mention the current game but did you see aztects took washington [16:57] civfan has come out in support of an intersite PtW. [16:57] WHAT?!?! [16:57] !?!?! [16:57] yap i jsy looked and saw it. [16:57] aggie2 - no, haven't looked at it yet. [16:57] We need to get into that war. Pronto [16:57] well maybe we cannaccelerate and attack with wc's [16:57] wc are cheap and we can mass produce [16:58] what? [16:58] I guess it's GOOD that we stopped the chat when we did... gives us time to debate this one [16:58] adamada your fears of aztects taking amrica were justified apparently [16:58] * manicstar (~manicstar@evrtwa1-ar12-4-46-241-148.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net) has joined #civ3dem [16:59] i though the german would never let them through [16:59] I'm shocked. I hadn't anticipated that they'd take America this soon. This needs to be discussed on the boards ASAP [16:59] Should we start the war early - we can. [16:59] the AI's are notorious for signing RoPs with each other, even when it's *obviously* not in their interests [16:59] i'm kicking myself right now -- been meaning to write a proposal for early war for weeks [16:59] we have the resources [16:59] Directory distracted me [17:00] in 3 turns we will have 5wc ready for battle, but another 3 to get them to chicago [17:00] well... if the Aztecs ONLY get washington... we can always build up cultural improvements in American annexation and hope for a culture flip [17:00] we can fight on both fronts, just the early part will not be strong. [17:00] (that being the more long-term problem) [17:00] i will send wc for reconasaince to see if any troops near chicgo [17:01] oh, we can do it -- I already did most of the necessary discussion before [17:01] when I first saw it [17:01] yes, we definately want Chicago as first priority... [17:01] we saw the aztects a few turns ago, it looked weak [17:01] I think we may have to take on azec if we want washington soon. [17:01] i mean, talking to a few ministers [17:02] we may have to declare war on the Aztecs, folks. [17:02] i would like washington but i'd raTHER AVOID A MAJOR WAR, CULTURE COULD DO IT [17:02] I honestly think culture flip may be easy if Washington becomes an *isolated* Aztec city [17:02] sorru i hit cap lock key [17:02] the AI is normally too stupid to build lots of culture in isolated cities [17:03] Wait - unless we are on 3 of 4 sides, culture flip will be hard. [17:03] not necessarily, GK... if you have enough OVERALL cultural advantage, it can make up for it [17:03] but we don't, not yet. [17:03] We won't for a while, either. [17:04] such as if we can build enough improvements empire-wide to get the Aztecs to *eventually* be impressed with us, or even admire us [17:04] brb [17:04] but then time is on our side in the long-run... which is ok [17:04] We are lacking in productivity empire wide. need to start the FP soon. [17:04] but i have noticed captured cities sometime flip, that my worry with arbela, it flipping to persia [17:04] are there any valuable resources or lux in Washington? [17:04] besides... when the Aztecs take the city... it has NO improvements and the AI is notorious for not building them very quicly [17:04] I mean it flipping to england [17:05] Washington, note yet. Saltpeter maybee [17:05] iron is all it has [17:05] I am surpriese they took that and not chicgo [17:05] Washington is going to be valuable. That iron is very tradeable. [17:05] aggie, Arbela IS a risk... make sure we put 2 units in it and build temple... then it should be fine [17:06] they may have come along a road that brought them nearer to Washington initially [17:06] We need 6+ units to prevent a flip. We should look at purchasing a temple ASAP [17:06] Have to head out now. TTYL. Will likely post something tonight about the turnchat. [17:06] i will that is my second planed temple the first is in persopolis to securte the sputh [17:06] ::agrees with GK:: [17:06] * Togas (~tom_ogas@209-78-90-10.co.tulare.ca.us) Quit (Quit) [17:07] yah arbela is a probel to be sure oncve we get it. [17:07] How long til peace with persia? [17:07] but we can lower pop build temple we should be ok [17:08] 2 turns [17:08] hey could somebody send me save where we ended [17:08] Apoc said the war might be off schedule, Aggie... is that true or is it still 2 turns? [17:08] OK. What about switching to republic. Aggie, save is posted. [17:08] apoc posted save in his thread before he left. [17:09] it should be 2 turns, forgetting to move the pike was irritating, but the other forces should be ok and the pike from muncie will cover it [17:09] we're in the middle of fighting... if we have to fight both America and Persia at once, we HAVE to wait on republic until war is over [17:09] let me see save I'll be right back [17:09] sorry [17:09] back now [17:09] hi. [17:09] but I honestly think we switch to republic ASAP once war is over [17:09] (though that may be a while now) [17:10] Yep - if we go after america. Persia will be finsihed soon. [17:10] One thing is for sure, it is NOT in our interests to go to war with the Aztecs [17:10] as of the begining of 440 we are on schedule [17:10] we're ALREADY stretched too thin... [17:11] Depends - how much to get germany to declair war on aztec. Will keep both occupied. [17:11] let me see the save before i say for sure [17:11] Germany hates the Aztecs [17:11] more then they hate us, IIRC [17:11] just came off a war with them [17:11] wouldn't be too hard [17:11] but we gotta move soon [17:11] the Aztecs just got peace with the Greeks [17:11] so they'll have their full force on the Americas soon [17:11] we should grab chicago fast [17:11] well... it will need more debate and discussion... I'm against a war with the Aztecs, we may be stuck in it for god only knows how long [17:11] like, move the WCs now [17:11] not now, but next turnchat [17:12] Aztecs, I'm not sure about [17:12] if germany and aztec at war, lots will join in with germany. we don't have to lift a finger. [17:12] I don't want to go to war with them [17:12] true, but then Germany'll have Washington... [17:12] 1 note also the chat started at 21gmt not 22gmt [17:12] yeah... I noticed that I came in at 22:30 gmt and the chat had obviously been going for quite some time [17:13] I was way late.... [17:13] 12 attack is still on schedule [17:13] GK, you came in right after me, around 22:45 gmt [17:14] if i had known it would start early i would have been here [17:14] dunno -- apoc gave me a time for EDT, and that's when I came [17:14] that's when the chat started [17:14] what time in EDT? [17:14] Time zone crap.... I hate daylight savings time. [17:15] (I live in EDT... so I can easily compare :) ) [17:15] btw... (as a note about daylight savings time) the time changes this month back to standard... don't remember which day [17:15] This was the firstconnection to a chat Ive made so far and It seems I am really very late, but it seems like it just got a whole lot more interesting.. [17:15] I know times change on Sunday, just don't remember if it's 1st Sunday or last Sunday [17:16] 5 PM EDT [17:16] Detroit - now it is 8:19. don't know when the change is. [17:16] It might be this wwkend [17:16] I almost hope so -- DST is messing us all up :) [17:17] I'll be happy when I can just add/subtract five and be done [17:17] ::looking it by surfing:: [17:17] or the firs week in november [17:17] times change on the last Sunday in October [17:17] at 2 a.m. local time [17:17] I just let my mom call me and tell me when to change my clock. [17:18] arnelos is right we have almost another month, it used to be the 1st weekend and they cahnged it [17:18] lol @ GK [17:18] Yep [17:18] Arnelos - where are you at? [17:18] Washington, DC [17:18] well, just outside of it [17:18] and it is 2 am? [17:18] manicstar the chat was cut short due to real life [17:18] no... the time change is at 2 a.m. on the last sunday of the month... [17:18] * Yildirim (~Leons@spc-isp-tor-58-18-709.sprint.ca) has left #civ3dem [17:18] 'scue me , but can I get a summ-up of what went on? [17:18] HERE, RIGHT NOW, it's 8:19 p.m. [17:19] Ok. Now I get it. [17:19] Mss is enouigh [17:19] manicstar - not much. Aztec are kicking american ass [17:19] manicstar --- Apoc had to run, so chat ended partway through 440... Aztecs took Washington... sorta a crisis, needs discussion [17:19] Yes must discuss... americal is on borrowed time. [17:19] also we need to get the dec or war passed for the americans [17:20] yea -- we'll probably be at war with america within the next few turns [17:20] Yep' [17:20] I just wish we'd gone ahead and done it weeks ago... my fault :( [17:20] well in all fairness there was nothing we could have done, the war with peria is a great import [17:20] what is it with this dem game and everyone blaming themselves for everything? [17:20] true [17:20] no, we did not yeyt see the light at the end of the persian war, we just knew it was there [17:20] lol [17:21] OPD, Apoc, GK, now ada [17:21] i hope the light at the end of the tunnel isn't the train(yes i've sen too many bugs bunny shows) [17:21] :) [17:21] na, this one's my fault for real -- I was gonna type up a proposal for war weeks ago, and then none of this would have happened [17:21] :) [17:21] lol, yepyep [17:21] slipped my mind [17:21] ohwell [17:21] *oh well [17:22] we were not reayd. peaceniks [17:22] well we can still rush, the wc will be ready and they can rush to chic, [17:22] oops [17:22] back to CC - anything else you can say? [17:22] what is "CC" [17:22] peaceniks would not be peaceful about itr [17:22] aggie, constitutional convention [17:22] I *almost* want hte place to be more normal and everyone blame everything on everyone ELSE... but I realize I'm happier with this system ;P :) [17:22] ok sorry [17:22] Constitutional Congress [17:22] Well, I'm not sure if I can say what the perliminary conclusions of the discussions we're having are, but I can give my opinion on anything I think [17:23] and there are one or two things that are practically set in stone or that everyone thinks/knows [17:23] ok, fire away ada [17:23] eagerly awaits.. [17:23] Regions? [17:24] well, for the stuff in stone, that's basically the general government structure, with the Senate, Court, and Executive (ministers) [17:24] spending power, GL? [17:24] Regions are in somewhere [17:24] Spending power is under much discussion [17:24] good [17:24] GL's been mentioned, can't quite remember [17:24] who said what on that -- I know I'm undecided [17:24] though we seem to have got a better system for spending than we did [17:24] perhaps -- it gives the Economic minister a lot of power [17:25] that is? [17:25] The balance of power is, in my opinion, the biggest thing that we'll have to decide [17:25] i figure the smc will remain the same [17:25] we could go one of several paths on that, but the biggest problem is that we're practically bound to have one super department [17:26] *especially* with only 4 elected ministers making up the cabinet [17:26] and that'll be whoever's got the cash control [17:26] yea, we're talking about maybe shuffling one or two extra powers under the SMC, but nothing for sure, and it'll be basically the same I think [17:26] true, but the military is powerful in its own right [17:26] The Military basically needs the power it has now [17:26] ada... you can always make that issue A LOT easier by doing what RL republics/democracies do... give the legislature the cash control, though the MoE submits the budget for their approval [17:26] The military is more fun.... [17:27] Anyone got a workable way the senate has cash control? [17:27] the city planner can just refuse to build as requested [17:27] turn by turn cash allocation? [17:27] perhaps we can have a "footing" ie war,peace,middle and then whoever is in charge of the area gets x%, during war thesmc has more power during peace the cp does and foreign and the other consults those 2 since thye have the big and constant expenses [17:27] a percentage set? [17:27] Remember, time is also an issue. How long to review and debate what not [17:27] economic minister just can rush stuff [17:27] for each turnchat... the MoE presents a general budget outline that the senate must pass... OR perhaps every 2 turnchats (once per week) [17:28] yea, that's my biggest concern with leaving it up to the Senate [17:28] Turnchats are flying by, barely enough time for a full poll, and a heated issue like finances? [17:28] Senate? [17:28] Ya, but as CP - I store my % so I can buy something big. Then I loose $ as the % do not change. [17:28] Senate = membership [17:28] Senate = membership, sorry [17:28] lol [17:29] lol :) [17:29] well for all concerned with few xcpetions the big smc expenditure are done until the pike need upgrade [17:29] nod [17:29] yea, that's another problem with the system, what GK just brought up [17:29] Ya - pike to musket - 60 gold each!!!! [17:29] perhaps we could have longer turnchats and put more time in between... [17:29] exactly -- the SMC only needs gold for upgrades [17:29] and rushes [17:29] I think it's best to put someone in charge [17:29] yah leonardo would have bben nice [17:29] problem with longer turnchats are that they already go on a good five hours [17:29] that's true... [17:30] I would give away the 3 wonders we have for leo's [17:30] what might work is making the president more powerful, so he can move faster [17:30] nod [17:30] GK, GK and Sun Tzu's are nice together [17:30] ada... have you thought of creating a committee structure for the Senate? [17:30] I have a hard time planning 5 turns. [17:30] I don't think the idea's come up yet -- do you have any specific ideas? [17:30] in other words... each Senator (member) selects 1 committee to be a voting member of... [17:30] yea, planning ahead that far might be hard also [17:31] 5 turns is bad enough more is almost impossible [17:31] The committees vote on proposals by said minister... so the Finance Committee would approve the budget each week [17:31] seems too much [17:31] ah, see what you mean [17:31] I might float it, but it seems like a very complex addition [17:31] we'd need subforums to do it well [17:31] What part of the city is corrupt when it grows? does it change build times? Science, my pike are now muskets, when we purchace gunpowder, but what turn will that be? [17:31] nod [17:31] not necessarily, many people won't join committees [17:31] i ahve an idea we attack russia to get leonardoes(not for a while but before cassacks) [17:32] and only those who are active enough to keep up with what's happening week-by-week (or day-by-day) would be really active in committee discussions [17:32] go aggie go [17:32] lol, for Leos, I might be willing to accept it [17:32] switch to gunpowder is the most expensive. [17:32] Arnelos, I see what you mean [17:32] i can dream but right now that is failr impractical [17:32] it'd be a huge change ,though [17:32] you'd have to change the polling to 24 hours rather than 5 days, though [17:32] it kills me to loos leo's when we hav sun tsu's [17:33] me too [17:33] pike-musket 60, musket-rifle-40, rifle-inf-20 [17:33] Arnelos: what if the Adam Smith Foundation was just given official power instead? [17:33] inf-mecinf -40 [17:33] such as Area 25 is [17:33] wow i like it [17:34] when we get gunpowder, we are broke for a long time in upgrade [17:34] since many legislatures on the planet use committee structures (an innovation of the 17th century, if I remember correctly), it can't be THAT bad of an idea [17:34] it's not a bad idea at all [17:34] that's a HELL of a lot of power... there's a certain point at which "democracy" becomes mearly a nice-sounding word [17:34] I'm not sure it'd improve the workings of the game much, though, which is basically the point of the CC [17:34] weekly budgets [17:34] one reason for me wanting to attack frace before gp was to decrease our border and thus upgrade cost [17:34] true... [17:35] 10 turn budgets? [17:35] Can 10 turns be predicted? [17:35] if we do public budgets, that'll probably be up to the senate and court [17:35] I'm just suggesting one of the traditional ways that legislatures have been given to check executive power.. the execs make all the decisions, but the legislature can vote up/down on the MONEY [17:35] yeaa, that'd be a good check [17:36] I like the idea of giving it to the senate, but I think we might be setting things in stone a b it [17:36] Time! Once a week is to hard to predict the $ amount [17:36] the other thing is, if we give it to the Executive, then they'll be very powerful... [17:36] best idea would be smc/cp/fam chat and hammer out a budget once a week [17:36] we could also switch our system to essentially a parliamentary system for picking execs (especially since the voters are ALREADY legislators) [17:36] but it'll mean that the person who's playing the game can decide [17:36] it is the MoE job to predict [17:36] which'll let decisions be most sensable [17:36] in other words... if the gov't submits 2 budgets in a row that BOTH fail, the government falls and we hold elections [17:37] no... no money gets spent [17:37] lol -- might be harsh on the whole gov't if they've got a radical MoE? [17:37] 'cept for upkeep [17:37] well, you don't necessarily hold elections... [17:37] i mean me togas and Gk sit dwon and disucss what we want [17:37] what manic says is probably better if there can't be an agreement, though -- no cash gets spent at all [17:37] Time - now we have to come up with budgets for each chat? With only 30 cities I spend 3 hours planning the next 5 turns.... [17:37] you just fall the gov't and they have to re-organize -OR- hold elections (if they can't reorganize on their own) [17:38] city gov coul help cp [17:38] I'm most worried about what GK's saying -- a ton of the Foreign Ministry decisions are made by myself or Togas on the spot [17:38] no major upsets [17:38] ok, I hear what everyone's saying about giving the power to the senate [17:38] adaMada, this is why I suggest what I am... [17:38] no failed govs [17:38] aggie2 - yes, but then organization takes forever. 30 cities = 30 posts about build orders... [17:38] and next time I start talking about this, I will pass the suggestions on [17:39] You give the executives the right to do A LOT of what they want, but the legislature has the right to call for a vote of confidence when THEY want [17:39] true gk [17:39] oh, ok, so you're giving the legislature the power to TAKE power if they want it? [17:39] but only if they feel it's necessary? [17:39] precisely [17:39] no hrm in that [17:39] I could live with that [17:39] impeachment!!! we already have it. never been used. [17:40] but I'm not sure I'd be in support of it... [17:40] so the executives get to make all the decisions unless the legislature gets pissed off enough to knock them out of power [17:40] in my games i use the 100 rule i don't rush over 100 so maybe only cities that can rush for less 100 in next 5 turns are considered [17:40] I'd rather have a real good balance of power between executives [17:40] no folks have bee gracious...sort of [17:40] but this FREES UP the executives to have the power to actually make all those little decisions [17:40] go ahead - impeach me now. lets test this out. [17:40] Hello! [17:40] LOL, Gk's getting tired of his job I think [17:40] hallo [17:40] Hi dejon [17:40] hey dejon [17:40] jello [17:40] Just got back from dinner... [17:40] i mena hello [17:40] a vote of confidence is different from impeachment... [17:41] impeachment = we think you have not done your job [17:41] vote of confidence = you've done the job, we just think it could be done better, or the way WE want it done [17:41] ada - yep. Time is just to much. I spend 10+ hours outside of chats doing CP only, and that is just keeping my head above water. [17:41] that is 10+ a week [17:42] yikes.. [17:42] GK -- you could resign if you wanted to [17:42] though I admit that the vote of confidence is something which goes better with coalition politics - though that isn't TOO MUCH of a stretch for us [17:42] HA! I knew Washington was taken after 430! I didn't say anything about it 'cause I'm not part of the game and someone had requested that non-ministers keep quiet. [17:42] I know, it's a ton of time, that's why I honestly can't do your job :) [17:42] Tonight I had to find a TA to teach my class so I could try to get orders for this chat. [17:42] that's MY fault... sh*t [17:42] thank you [17:42] Dejon, if you ever notice something like that again, feel free to shout it from the rooftops [17:42] lol, it doesn't matter -- wouldn't have changed our actions anyway [17:43] yes, it might have. we may have called for a stop. [17:43] but Dejon, what I said was that you SHOULD speak up if you had something IMPORTANT to say :p... I think the aztecs taking Washington is sorta important ;) [17:43] I'd agree. [17:43] perhaps, but he noticed at the end of 430, right? we're in the middle of 440, and I don't think have 'spaced' any units, right? [17:44] ah well -- what's done is done. no need for anyone to beat themselves up over it [17:44] Listen, the opinion of an observer might not mean anything, but there seems to bigger organizational problems with the turnchats than with your constitution... [17:44] yes, taht's very very true :) [17:44] but fixing the constitution will help turnchats [17:44] no I am going to move the 3/3 chariot for recon but other trops will take 3 or so turns to front [17:44] no question about that [17:44] We used to use two rooms, one for ministers only. [17:45] I chat with Togas in the second room now :) [17:45] that isn't such a bad idea to use, GK... [17:45] we could start using it again, I guess [17:45] what happened to the ministers room [17:45] it's there [17:45] nothing. last two administrations just haven't used it. [17:45] only problem would be the propensity for FORMER ministers to go into the ministers room :p [17:45] Q: What are the prereqs for setting a chat date? [17:46] i agree, admada you and togas creat a foreignminister room for your self that we don't know about that way you canntalki in peace [17:46] oh, that's not a problem [17:46] lol, if someone else needs it, I'm sure we could move [17:46] We never objected to anybody listining in on the ministers room, just in posting. [17:46] no one even mentioned it's use [17:46] ah... that sounds best, GK [17:46] oh yea, of course [17:46] no i was just thinking a"secret location" for you two would be good so no unnecesary chat there [17:46] it's often moderated, actually [17:46] LOL [17:46] Even I knew about the Min. room - it was mentioned before. [17:47] the real use of the top secret Foreign Ministry Bunker IRC Chatroom is to hammer out trade deals [17:47] well, I heard it proposed in the forums by someone [17:47] I just never knew it was used BEFORE [17:47] The govt doesn't keep secrets, usually. [17:47] again, if people want to start using it, it shouldn't be big [17:47] Anyone catch my question? [17:47] You mean YOUR branch of the gov't doesn't keep secrets -- other branches aren't so nice ;) ;) [17:48] I definately recommend it... I think Shriber's a great guy, for instance... but it was almost impossible to get him to shut up last week while the ministers we're trying to work [17:48] no. I liked it better when it was in use. It let lots of good ideas come out in the regular room and the min. room was orders only for the most part. [17:48] Dejon: [17:48] there are no prerq for chat date generally tue/wed or sat/sun [17:48] President/VicePresident does it when they can [17:48] what aggie said :D [17:48] they normally try to find a decent time for all [17:48] and thius was a poerfect time today:) [17:49] and then short chat DOOOOH [17:49] ?? So there is no req. for all Ministries to be represented, to watch out for stuff relevant to them? [17:49] Arnelos, I agree -- if OPD/Apoc want to use such a room, then that's awsome [17:49] I had an ammendment that passed (but never made it into our COL) that said it must be posted at least 3 days befor occuring. [17:49] Dejon, they post orders before the chat (mnisters) [17:49] sadly not dejon [17:49] They try to get a time that works for the really important ones [17:49] what happened to OPD anyways? why couldn't he make it? [17:49] I think OPD wanted to let Apoc do a chat [17:49] dejon - with 9 ministers (first term) that was impossible to find a time. [17:49] ah... [17:50] Yeah, I know, I've been lurking for weeks. But Washington is a case in point, who's responsible to check the world map for events of importance? [17:50] dunno, it's possible he might not [17:50] usually the person playing is to tell people in the chat of any important events. [17:50] oh boy... the bureaucracy is about to get bigger... we can now add a Deputy Minister of Event Watching! :) [17:50] really i have an idea the MOE tells us how much money and in a "secret chatroom" the fam/smc/cp divide it up based on there needs, if they can't agree the Pres does it or vp as wthe case may be [17:50] Dejon, the Foreign Ministry does it sort of -- we're supposed to notice important stuff and take action. Having said that, we did report on america two weeks ago, and no one listened, so... Also, anything such as that would generally happen after the chat, not during [17:50] * MrWIA (~mrwhereit@203.96.144.66) has joined #civ3dem [17:51] MWIA, hey! [17:51] we're chatting around now, since the chat ended early [17:51] hi mwia [17:51] Hiya! Over, is it? [17:51] Oh. [17:51] Hi aggie, ada [17:51] hi MrWIA [17:51] well it was only 1 1/2 turn RL intervined [17:51] allo, Mr Where It Is At [17:51] Poor Apoc - that sucks when that has to happen [17:51] Salut to GK and dejon [17:51] yea -- he seemed to be beating himself up prett ybad about it too [17:52] Salut to me, why? [17:52] is opd around wwe could draft him and keep going, though we shouldn't with aztecs eating america alive [17:52] hey MrWIA [17:52] na, we shouldn't -- we need the time to discuss [17:52] we should probably keep it stopped and ask for discussion the Aztecs taking Washington issue [17:52] ok, i wanted to ask everyone this earlier and didn't get a chance: [17:52] Hi Arn - GK - just saying hi :) [17:52] I say we declair war on everybody now!!! [17:53] So I take it a development is the Aztecs starting to take America? [17:53] they captured Washington [17:53] yep. they took washington [17:53] Q/IDEA: How about posting .sav files at the _start_ of turns - that way people can play along and respond to events. [17:53] yap washing is now that stupid green [17:53] If you could put the power to delegate money under any minister (not the senate), which would you choose? Exec. or domestic? [17:53] they are posted [17:53] Out of nowhere? Ir was it signposted? [17:53] and some people do play along often [17:53] ada - domestic, with overide by exec [17:54] i agree, though some allowance for miltary should be made [17:54] MWIA, I made a fuss over them taking a few cities two weeks ago, but no one noticed because they were northern cities... the DC take was totally by suprise [17:54] GK, Aggie: What sort of justification does Exec have to have to override? [17:54] domestic... though I strongly feel at least SOME form of committee from the Senate (at the very least) or the full Senate (at most) should ratify on some time-scale [17:54] MrWIA - my apoc, says turnchats 430 ad... want a link? [17:54] just him feeling like it? [17:54] we did see the aztects last trun but it was just a spear, they must have joined with other forces [17:55] I am gonna go and look at the game... [17:55] okay, manic, while you're there, and if you're on any trade screens, would you do me a favor? [17:55] Gk - that would be nice. I will have to look much much later though. [17:55] well adamada he is the head of the gov and otherwise too uck pwer in on man [17:55] * manicstar (~manicstar@evrtwa1-ar12-4-46-241-148.evrtwa1.dsl-verizon.net) has left #civ3dem [17:55] Justification, people are shouting and posting a lot... war, and CP is ignoring the SMC, stuff like that. [17:55] I haven't looked yet... I'll do that later [17:55] ok, nevermind [17:55] mwia - hold one.... [17:55] http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63423 [17:56] 'k, hear you GK [17:56] I'm just worried about what happens if we ever have a domestic who's not a team player [17:56] wow, we're still chatting! [17:56] as am I [17:56] awesome [17:56] * WhiteBand forgot he was here [17:56] lol [17:56] thats my worry, but so far its been real good, me and gk usually are on the sdame page [17:56] ada - I don't think any sort of formal rules need to be set for justification, just the statement that the exec has to pass on it should be enough. [17:57] heh, if there is a minister who doesn't cooperate, impeach him [17:57] Hey WB [17:57] there's a GREAT quote from James Madison (father of the U.S. Constitution) on just that issue... [17:57] hey MrWIA! [17:57] ok [17:57] White: Yea, I let everyone shout at me about the Constitutional convention, it seems to keep people here ;) [17:57] IMo war take priority over CP using money in most circumstances. [17:57] "It is vain to assume that enlightened statesmen will always be able to adjust their interests... for enlightened men will not always be at the helm." [17:57] hehe [17:58] good one arnelos [17:58] yep, good one [17:58] ok, how about this: [17:58] this is why the German chancellorship didn't make it must past Bismark (its designer) as an effective office [17:58] if the exec overrules the domestic, what then? [17:59] can exec put his own plan in? [17:59] two options [17:59] does the domestic have to rewrite it and resubmit it? [17:59] the only one who could be german chancellor was Bismark, but he'd designed the office with Bismark in mind [17:59] do the people get a say at that point? [17:59] 1 game pauses - hold a vote [17:59] 2 exec decides [17:59] but they better justify. [17:59] gotcha [18:00] i beter go later [18:00] so it's not just letting the Exec decide -- decision without showing why the Domestic's plan was bad would be cause for impeachment [18:00] later Aggie [18:00] I say let the cabinet come to an agreement on the budget (as with a real cabinet) and then the Domestic Minister submits the cabinet's budget to the Senate for approval (up/down) [18:00] * aggie2 (aggie@209.163.196.200) Quit [18:00] in the case of Peace Loving President and war mongering cabinent and the president over rules the exec? [18:00] prez is exec [18:00] the problem with all the "seek senate approval" stuff is it takes quite a bit of time [18:00] if it fails, they go back and submit a new budget... continue until something passes (this CAN get frustrating) [18:00] err [18:00] i mean prez overrules minister :P [18:01] the prez should get final say... the minister can, of course, resign in protest [18:01] if prez overrules me (and the city names are different, so don't say it doesn't occur) than what can I do? [18:02] i don't think there is much you can really do :-/ [18:02] exactly -- that's what I was just about to ask [18:02] go to the people? [18:02] This is not the same situation, but if it was a real issue.... [18:02] yea [18:02] OPD would be out of office real fast. [18:02] Personally, I think we're moving toward a more parliamentary/coalition-style cabinet... which means that if ANYONE resigns, the government has to find someone new and pass a vote of confidence to stay in power - if not, we hold elections [18:02] I think it will be rare that the Prez does anything counter to the good for Apolytonia, we should know the candidates well enough long before they run. Also we have the Court for dealing with any problems. [18:02] City names can be changed whenever. Spending $ cannot. [18:03] that's true -- the CC'll probably just leave any loose ends such as that in the opinion of the court [18:03] I'd just like a system with more absolutes [18:03] eh [18:03] it seems like very little's certain [18:03] but then you have the court forming laws [18:03] which is not a good idea and not what the court is designed to do [18:03] courts form laws all the time. [18:03] it is supposed to interpret laws [18:03] I agree with WhiteBandit on that one... [18:04] we'd lay out guidelines for what the Domestic Minister can do, and if the Exec can overrule [18:04] courts do more *clarifying* laws than they really should do forming them [18:04] GK - A Legislative body forms laws and the court rules on them [18:04] but if the Exec overrules, and the constitutional convention doesn't say what happens if the domestic disagrees, then the court and senate would have to decide, either through a law or a ruling [18:04] yeah the court would decide in that case [18:04] however we'd probably address that issue [18:04] OK. I pay income tax. Show me a law that says I have to!!! But if I do not pay, I go to jail. That is a law by any name. [18:04] I don't think we'd leave such a big hole [18:04] it would probably argue there is no recourse for the minister though [18:05] The Court would interpret laws, and poll if it was decided a new one needed to be made. [18:05] yea, we'd have to leave some option for the minister [18:05] ok, got another question I'd like some opinions about [18:05] Veto power? [18:05] Should there be one? [18:05] personally, I think the best power to give a minister is the threat of his resignation [18:05] Veto over what? [18:05] I mean the Pres/Exec. having veto over the senate in any way [18:06] http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/income_tax.html [18:06] especially in very very close cases [18:06] no, the prez should NOT have veto over the Senate [18:06] also, before i forget, how do you save IRC logs? I gotta get a copy of all this stuff :) [18:06] Simce the "Senate" posts orders before the chat/turns are played, we should be able to work out any issues beforehand, no? [18:06] adaMada - it should automatically save them [18:06] ok [18:06] if it doesn't i can forward them to you [18:06] I'm interested in this conversation, but I've got other stuff brewing, so I'm just gonna leave this open. I hope you solve all your worlds problems. :-) [18:06] AFK [18:06] 'k :) [18:07] i think you actually have to set up logging [18:07] ada - RHT click on the civ3dem room button on the top of the screen [18:07] see it :) [18:07] thanks MWIA [18:07] WB - that didn't create an income tax. It is just how a department does justifies it. [18:07] later dejon [18:07] What about this for an idea for a veto power... [18:07] I'm not sure if it's any good, just something crossing my mind [18:07] for very close cases [18:08] here's the #1 problem with our system, as I see it: it's a muddled hybrid that in many respects has the disadvantages of multiple systems w/o many of hte benefits of same said systems [18:08] Enable logging (or if it is already, disable then enable) - then choose a name/dir and it will save automatically. [18:08] bye dejon [18:08] it needs to be clarified and made into a more workable system where power and legitimacy are clearly defined in how they flow and why [18:08] GK - but then individual legislation creates the law that says you must pay income tax. damned if i can find it as our laws are so fucking messy to find. "Section L, Subsection ZX2 of Paragraph 2 R in Code L.R.44.2 of the Something or Another Case 1" [18:09] in any case where an official poll only passes by 5% or less (or some other arbitrary number), the President can ask for a repoll, in which case the poll must pass by 66% to pass [18:09] I don't know if I like the idea at all, i'm just shooting things out [18:09] WhiteBand, assuming you're a U.S. Citizen, it is passed annually in the budget bill for "Ways and Means" [18:09] Good luck. I had highschool debate on this topic back in 87 i think. Lots of research. No specific law was ever passed by the feds. Now tel that to the IRS. [18:09] it sounds better then a general 'president has veto power' clause, which i've also heard proposed [18:10] DUDE did you do team debate? [18:10] haha [18:10] i did team debate through in 96 :P [18:10] team and individual. Team mostly. [18:10] yes! [18:10] the *authority* to raise an income tax was established during the first 2 decades of the 20th Century - it was a court fight involving constitutional amendments [18:10] i didn't like lincoln douglas [18:10] 2 person. The most fun was on the social security and old folks. [18:10] White -- looks like I've only been logging the last minute or so, so once we're all done could you send me a copy of these logs? [18:10] but ok, i'll believe you in that case, cause TD involves quite a bit of research [18:10] I hated LD... I did policy debate :) [18:10] adaMada - definitely [18:11] 'k, thanks :) [18:11] you have an email address? [18:11] adamada42@yahoo.com is the one I use for C3DG stuff [18:11] ok [18:11] White - post it. sometimes other people want to look at it also. [18:11] ok, i'll do that when we are all done [18:11] actually, if anyone wants to talk to me about anything with the c3dg or has any ideas for the CC and PM won't work for some reason, that's the addy [18:12] thanks ada. [18:12] Any idea how jungle ball is working out. I havn't looked this week. [18:12] Yep [18:12] another lower scoring week [18:12] I did well because Shawn Alexander FINALLY came out of his rut [18:13] and scored 50 points!, enough to make me happy that I got him [18:13] 16th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution: "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration. [18:13] Aargh - I dropped from second to 5th [18:13] " [18:13] I'm afraid you got beat by Geofront, yes [18:13] Geofront hasn't lost yet [18:14] I dunno what'll happen when I play them -- I seem to generally have one player who's doing great, whereas they've got four or five who are all doing good [18:14] the evas also kicked my ass. [18:15] not the evas... who was it...looking [18:15] Evas? [18:15] Evas [18:15] * MrWIA thinking of starting a tema of "Angels" [18:15] JungleBall, MWIA, JungleBall [18:15] hey! [18:15] angels game is on right now! [18:15] i forgot! [18:15] * WhiteBand runs to tv [18:15] LOL [18:15] What place and game is that? [18:15] I seriously can't believe that I'm in second place -- I barely understand Football, lol [18:15] California, basebal [18:16] playoffs! [18:16] (angels) [18:16] lol, later WB [18:16] baseball, yeah southern california [18:16] oh, im still here [18:16] i just wanted to check the score [18:16] I got offered a trade.... from the evas... wow. good one for me. [18:16] who they playing, WB? [18:16] yankees [18:16] :-/ [18:16] they are probably gonna be eaten alive [18:16] damn... kick the Yankee's asses, please... [18:16] * opd (~dwyerowen@pc-80-193-124-196-hb.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #civ3dem [18:16] lo [18:17] I'm an Orioles fan :/ [18:17] hi opd. Just chatting. game over. [18:17] Hello OPD - fancy seeing you here ;) [18:17] hmm [18:17] what happened no major screw ups I hope [18:17] yeah, we got wiped out by the Romans in 1 1/2 turns - game over ;p [18:17] 1 to 1 bottom of 3rd [18:17] good day mwia we must stop meeting like this [18:17] And how should we meet then? :D [18:18] ACTUALLY, the Aztecs took over Washington :( [18:18] hey OPD [18:18] In that Presidents only club ;) [18:18] our eyes should meet over a crowded room [18:18] we stopped midway through 440 [18:18] opd - french, russians, germans, english & azteck all declaired war on us. [18:18] we declared war on the babylonians to make it even [18:18] lol [18:18] just kidding. [18:18] ok checking the save [18:18] ada - did we? [18:18] REALLY, NO JOKE: The Aztecs captured Washington... we stopped in 440 [18:18] yepyep [18:18] and then adaMada in his infinite wisdom decided to trade all of my workers to france in exchange for furs. [18:18] Exactly [18:19] True - they took washington. [18:19] Gotta have warm furs [18:19] seriously, they did take Washington [18:19] Apoc suddenly had to run... RL stuff, so that's why we stopped early [18:19] OK - gotta go soon, class in 40 and am sitting here barely dressed. Don't try to imagine that, please. :cute: [18:19] and we did only get a turn and a half done (hope poor apoc doesn't beat himself up too bad for it) [18:19] lol [18:19] Yuck MrWIA [18:19] yeah [18:19] though it turns out just fine that it stopped early... since the Aztecs took Washington and we need public debate on declaring war on America [18:20] and us fools have been in here chatting for the last 4 hours about everything and anything [18:20] Sorry GK - at least I don't have a Webcam. [18:20] Be thankful for small mercies. [18:20] it's an Apolytonian bonding session [18:20] HEY! [18:20] i have a webcam [18:20] hmm [18:20] * WhiteBand thinks evil thoughts. [18:20] NO!!!! [18:20] * GK slaps WhiteBand around a bit with a large trout [18:20] WB... you can't force us to go visit any site where you POST that webcam [18:20] ok [18:21] i'll just say "Hot women! Go here -> http://......" [18:21] which brings up the point that we don't even know of a single female (to my knowledge, anyway) in Apolytonia's "Senate" [18:22] as a member of Apolyton boards, perhaps... but not in the DG [18:22] That sucks..... no women at all that I know of. [18:22] Even civfanatics have women [18:22] only a couple on poly that I know of, and they are not very active. [18:22] Chieftess the PRESIDENT [18:22] which actually is sorta surprising, given that Civilization has more cross-gender appeal than most other games dominated by men [18:23] yeah, but that ain't Apolyton [18:23] yea, I wonder why [18:23] I've been thinking about that, actually [18:23] Well, no-one who is openly admitting to being female, that is... :cute: [18:23] I'm shocked that there aren't one or two girls that we know of out of our three hundred members [18:23] lol, that's true [18:23] I wouldn't admit [18:24] why not? what is the big deal if you were? [18:24] I mean...look at our DG... its' 100% male, despite the fact that I personaly know of quite a few women in RL that play Civ [18:24] AHA! You hear that guys, ada is actually a woman. :D [18:24] cause you'd have 299 computer nerds hitting on you [18:24] Maybe it's true - politics is a very male thing. [18:24] no! my g/f's sister is majoring in political science [18:24] and has ambitions to be... the president one day [18:24] hehe [18:24] not really... in the political org's I've been a member of, the ratio remains pretty 50/50 [18:24] lol [18:25] lolll ;) [18:25] is the demo game to macho? [18:25] seriously, I'm a guy -- my name has confused people in the past ;) ;) [18:25] ada-m-ada [18:25] perhaps we need to get rid of Duddha and his ilk, ;p [18:25] if a girl admitted they were a girl, I think some people would probably be makign sex jokes all the time [18:26] Hope not ada. [18:26] yea, me too, and maybe not [18:26] searching quote.irc for "sex" ... 151 matches found [18:26] duddha.... what is up with that. [18:26] very true... the age range on our boards is 13 to around 40+, with the mean and median of reported ages around 20-24 [18:26] hang on a minute MWIA if it's 2 30 here then it must be 2.30 in the afternoom there and your just getting up? [18:26] GK, that's one way of looking at my name [18:26] oh wonderful [18:26] can anyone figure out the other? :D [18:26] well, the logs are going to show what i do in the background adaMada [18:26] not you OPD, you already know ;) [18:27] (there was a comment about the site being too "macho"... this made me think of Duddha, our lovely resident brute :) ) [18:27] ad-a-mata [18:27] you must have picked it up when dainbramaged came along to the forums a while ago, I'm guessing... [18:27] haha, as im sitting here: "searching quote.irc for "sex" ... 151 matches found" [18:27] no, you were closer with ada-m-ada [18:27] ok, spit it out. [18:27] OPD - 1:30 here, and I got up at 12, but was posting since then without having left my room. [18:28] adaM ada [18:28] OK. [18:28] lol [18:28] I got up at 1 today but only cos spin city repeats were on the telly when I was in bed. [18:30] (spin city repeats... that a good thing or a bad thing for you, opd?) [18:30] I have to go if I am to post on poly what I want to tonight and still be able to get up at 5am. later. [18:30] ok, cya [18:30] later GK [18:30] it's good cos it's mraty mcfly not charlie sheen [18:30] *one by one, they all drop out... [18:30] * GK (GodKing@dialup-166.90.231.86.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) Quit [18:31] it's been that way for hours [18:31] Hey - OPD and I turned up after the fact! [18:31] after the what [18:31] After the turn. [18:31] Turns. [18:31] lol, yea, that's true [18:32] we're still adding a few people :) [18:32] we've been in here for nearly 5 hours [18:32] hehe [18:32] 4 or so are NON-game hours :P [18:32] well, some people... I came in around 3 hours ago [18:33] I must be gone in 5 or so - when I finish breakfast. Then I must be at Uni till midnight or so to catch up on the morning. [18:33] lol, yea [18:33] so am I correct in thinking that the chat ended early for the following reasons [18:33] Washington [18:33] Apoc- rl stuff [18:33] and late minister orders [18:34] It didn't end because of Washington... it ended because of Apoc needing to leave due to RL stuff [18:34] we found out about washington AFTER he left, ironically, by looking at hte save [18:34] washington would have ended it anyway, though [18:34] yeah, true [18:34] yes it would [18:35] I get the feeling that this is in some way my fault [18:35] Am I prophetic or what? [18:35] EVERYONE blames everything on themselves in this DG... it's getting a creepily consistent [18:36] It's called taking responsibility ;) [18:36] not me [18:36] while you were out, OPD... Apoc bashed himself up over this, then GK, then ada (to a small extent) [18:36] i suck because you all suck. [18:36] LOL [18:36] WB - yeah, you dodge out of everything. :D [18:36] lol [18:36] haha [18:36] well perhaps but apoc posted saying that it was the fault of both executives [18:36] that IS true... [18:36] anyway I'ts my job to take responsibility [18:36] I'm normally willing to take blame because I'm pretty easygoing, and I don't mind admitting I screwed up [18:37] * WhiteBand writes this down for the next time he screws something up [18:37] "blame adaMada" [18:37] lol [18:37] lol [18:37] ::still chuckling at WB:: [18:37] i understand though [18:37] i usually am pretty good at admitting my mistakes [18:37] Hehe when in doubt talk about your age. :D [18:38] i thought i was doing awesome cause i had my orders in, but evidentally all my orders were like 1 turn off :-/ [18:38] It's a shame I can't finish off the turns now [18:38] Sorry - just testing the Poly chat - it hasn't died for me yet!! [18:38] I mean, if I had no relation, then I clearly won't blame myself, but if I could have prevented it, then I'd rather take the blame myself then let someone else blame themselves over it [18:38] I get it, OPD, it's just odd that *everyone* insists on claimed it was *their* fault... it's getting close to where we'll start bidding on who is more at fault with everyone going "ME! ME! ME!" :) [18:38] We could always schedule a turnthread as opposed to a chat. [18:38] We don't need to have them everytime. [18:38] Arnelos - except me. [18:38] :P [18:39] yeah but I got the feeling apoc really wanted to take a chat [18:39] hell, why can't we continue? [18:39] lol, true [18:39] we're all here] [18:39] nah we'd need aggie [18:39] Washington, that's why [18:39] OH [18:39] you can't declare war :P [18:40] unless you want those of us present from the "Senate" to speak for the entire senate... but I don't think I'm ready to be tarred and feathered yet [18:40] it's not the declaring war I don't care about the rules it's waht to do [18:40] change your name [18:40] watch [18:40] I'd rather not continue for apoc's sake as well [18:40] LOL [18:40] * WhiteBand is now known as sky-walke [18:40] doh [18:40] true, Apoc is beating himself up over this bigtime [18:41] Arnelos: I'll take fifty percent of the blame, starting the bidding at one lyton [18:41] anyways [18:41] bhah he shouldn't nother [18:41] declare war yo! [18:41] * sky-walke is now known as WhiteBand [18:41] * MrWIA exerts ex-Presidential authority and takes full blame. [18:41] I hear one lyton bababababababababababababab do I hear two lytons? anyone with two lytons? adadadadaadada [18:41] Oh wait - I wasn't even here wass I? [18:41] lol, hard to take much for that one, MWIA [18:41] you could blame yourself for the breakdown in the use of the ministers room [18:41] that's it [18:42] no wait I take part of the blame as I actually told apoc I'd turn up some time during th chat [18:42] that was the reason that the Aztecs took Washington DC [18:42] obviously [18:42] LOL @ ada [18:42] they peaked in our ministers room, assumed all the ministers were off drunk, and then just took it [18:42] I could have been here a few hours ago but I had a few drinks instead [18:42] yeah, the Aztecs could *SENSE* that OPD, our great and fearless leader, was not with us... and chose this opportunity to POUNCE! [18:43] see [18:43] i like that [18:43] a president with priorites [18:43] priorities too [18:43] or... [18:43] we could reload the game from 430 AD [18:44] randomly declare war on america [18:44] and saw apoc was smoking crack [18:44] carrying out the orders is alot harder than you think [18:44] saw = say [18:44] hmm [18:44] I thought it'd be hard but wasa still surprised [18:44] no, really... I understand, OPD... I've been the position of the executive before (in a RL situation, no less)... It makes things MUCH easier when you take the blame for stuff and relax everyone that way... the problem here is that no-one wants you take all the blame, which makes the effectiveness of voluntarily doing so go sorta flat [18:44] Orders wise, you just gotta schedule a chat when only the dedicated can make it. Worked for me. :D [18:44] yea, I think so [18:45] lol, MWIA did have that chat time that went right through my dinner :p [18:45] actually, you guys do too, soo... :D :D [18:45] was aggie here earlire [18:45] I wonder if I'm supposed to be reading into that [18:45] he was here for a bit [18:45] actually, the majority of the chat [18:45] had to leave before it became random chatter, though [18:46] or to appease the people, you say something will be done and start firing random ministers [18:46] * WhiteBand hides [18:46] yeah, he left pretty early after the turnchat part was over [18:46] ::chuckle:: [18:46] Whoops - gotta go. I'm late. :D [18:46] Seeya in the forums. [18:46] bye mwia [18:46] for class? [18:46] cya [18:46] * MrWIA (~mrwhereit@203.96.144.66) Quit (Quit) [18:47] teh chat was today instead of tommorrow so that aggie could make it [18:47] I think he left because the turnchat part was over and he had other things to do if we weren't continuing anyways [18:47] later MWIA [18:47] yea [18:48] who didn't get their orders in [18:48] GK, who profusely blamed himself for not getting them in on time [18:49] Ghengis didn't post them, but they were well known [18:49] somehow, he didn't get informed that the chat was TODAY until around noon today [18:49] took a minute or two of digging though [18:50] yea, this term (because of coordination with all the appropriate people), it's been hard to keep track of when chats are for some reason [18:50] thats the thing you see the furst chat as pres you get alot of slack as it's a new term and perople dont know what to expect and stuff but apoc hasn't even done a full turn before [18:50] yea, I agree -- Apoc deserves all the slack of a new administration [18:51] I think he'll get it from most people [18:51] ::agress with adaMada:: [18:51] btw, opd--those names you gave cities last turnchat, are they temporary? [18:51] Perhaps to make it look like some action has been taken in response to todays chat I should sort out the problem of caht times [18:51] sounds like a VERY good idea [18:51] I dunno about the city names. [18:51] Actually, I think he'll get the least slack from himself -- he seems to be a perfectionist [18:52] ok, GK just posted a thread about it, I was gonna say that you needed some emergency ones... [18:52] back in 5 [18:52] I'll say I'm not sure if they're temporary or not, I'll let you figure it out whenever you're ready [18:52] 'k [18:58] ok, read GK's post - interesting [18:59] read adamada's now [18:59] i just edited mine, but only a word or two difference [19:00] i normally have one little gramatical or clarification tweak to make [19:00] after posting [19:01] same here [19:01] I almost always end up doing that... [19:02] guess opd's not back yet [19:06] guess no [19:06] *not [19:07] * aggie2 (aggie@209.163.196.157) has joined #civ3dem [19:08] are ya'll still really here [19:08] hey aggie [19:08] hey there opd [19:08] hello [19:08] hello [19:08] welcome back [19:08] thank you [19:08] waht do you think of washington then aggie [19:09] i am disappointed but there was little we could have done [19:09] if you can't stop soemthing you live with it [19:09] brb, phone [19:09] * WhiteBand is now known as Away-Band [19:09] though I am going to gather the WC and kick butt [19:10] how soon do you think we can take Chicago, for instance? [19:10] (having not looked at the specifics, I know) [19:10] well we will ahve 5 wc's in about 4 turn and 5 turns in delmonte let me see the map,brb [19:12] from chiquita is it 5 turns to attack [19:12] sorry 4 turns so in 9 or so we cannattack chicago with chariots and the rest with knights [19:13] knights will be back by then [19:13] 9 turns, eh? [19:13] yap, if we get chicago we could flip wash [19:13] well, we'll just have to hope the Aztecs don't take it by then - no control over it [19:13] and yeah... hoping to flip washington is definately the best course [19:14] personally, I'd recommend that we secure funds (once we control various American cities) to rush temples up there... [19:14] if they do they do is my philosiphy in reallity the choice was pyramid/incese/spices/iron vs iron/incense [19:14] not to mention make sure Chiquita has really good culture [19:14] aggie if you can post some order by tommorrow/thurs I could maybe finish off teh turns and let apoc take a chat this wknd [19:14] indedd, its need that anyway to holsd off greece [19:15] ok well the orders are the same and I will be more specifc about the wc's [19:15] despite apoc fear of messing of the timeing of the persian war we are still well on schedule [19:16] aggie, I don't think anyone told OPD about that [19:16] you were there, explain [19:16] ok well the post of the 440 mentioned it and i wanted to eliminate any fear [19:17] sorry [19:17] didn't realize that people were posting here again [19:17] well the chat started early and i wasn't there to see the first turn I go there at the end and apparently some pikemovements didn't take place as planned, but it is all ok I can shuffle pikemen [19:18] Got the directory up to date, though, so I'm happy :) [19:18] excellent [19:18] lol, good :) [19:19] so some pikes didn't move but it's no big deal [19:19] OMG, this is still going?? [19:19] exactley I think apoc though that pike moving could delay the attack on antioch, but I'll just move the pike from contagion and leave that town undefended a turn, no harm [19:19] * Jkim21 (~jkim199@ool-182e1883.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #civ3dem [19:20] not non-stop, but there are people doing other stuff who check every few minutes to see if anyone's there [19:20] * Jkim21 is now known as calcII [19:20] I'm trynna learn all these spanish words :D [19:20] hey calc [19:20] Looks like everyone signs on to blame themselves... [19:20] hey trunchats over? [19:20] au contaire dejon i neve almost never blame myself:) [19:21] well calc II turnchat was cut short by rl [19:21] turnchat ended hours ago [19:22] i just came back, I woas looking at the data on a stormand seeinf what was up and thought I would visit to see who was here [19:22] yeah, the Aztecs captured Washington... minor crisis, need public discussion, I guess [19:22] I blame myself while sercretly beliving it's everyones fault but mine [19:22] Arnelos: Sifting through the log here...did you "solve all the worlds problems"? [19:22] as it should be, opd :p :) [19:22] um... no [19:23] I most got ignored :p :) [19:23] (mostLY) [19:23] her's and idea i didn't here, you know ahving aztec as buffer to germany isn't all that horrible [19:23] urgh i was napping [19:23] except that all the AI's sign RoP's with each other... so it's sorta pointless [19:23] true,tru,true [19:24] as many American cities as we take, we take them... that's the best we can do, but we should go for it [19:24] to be honest the most valuabl;e land except for incense is the desert for oil later [19:24] Yea, that's the real reason I want America [19:24] A monopoly on Incense'd be nice too, but... [19:24] well BFM had a plan we could try send a settler to near the incense [19:25] and attempt to eventually flip it while not being flipped ourselves?? [19:27] i think that was the idea [19:27] well... my argument is that if we don't get all of America in this round of fighting, we can always wait until the late Middle Age (when we're likely to do our next round of fighting) and see what can be done then [19:27] we could try but i'm affraid greece is stong there [19:27] if we're lucky, some cities may flip in between now and then [19:27] that would be nice [19:28] using our religious ability to build quick religious improvements would help, of course... [19:28] one thing I want to mention is I would rather be in republic/demo for our GA [19:28] * dejon Retreats back into the shadows, wondering how long they'll last (5.5 hrs now) [19:28] I agree... the problem is that we have limited opportunities to trigger it AT ALL [19:29] well there are quite a few french who qualify I see awarrior and some swords very vulneable to wc [19:29] but that would trigger Ga in a 5-6 turn war [19:29] but I really wanted the french for later [19:30] Over the last few chats I've started to think more and more that the game is already ours [19:30] You know... our best chance of having a well-timed WC may be getting it with one of the lost civs :o [19:30] IMO it's well in the bag and it doesn't really matter much waht we do we'll win [19:30] I mean well-timed GA [19:30] I dunno... this is at what? Emperor level? [19:30] being complacent is likely to get us in trouble [19:31] perhaps it's time to start more roleplaying with things alot more like peace protesters and stuff. [19:31] well we do have a huge advantage so we will win if by no other means than score [19:31] anyway gotta fo to bed [19:31] don't forget that one of the lost civs is actually bigger than we are in pop :p [19:32] if we don't take another city we'll easily win by sapce race [19:32] that scary they must have a huge chunk of the continent and the others are on penisulas and stuff [19:32] any bye all see you arounf [19:32] * opd (~dwyerowen@pc-80-193-124-196-hb.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Quit: fuck you) [19:32] and I figure, at emperor level, we'll need to have roughly a 2-1 advantage over the next largest civ to be competitive in the space race (if that's our victory option) [19:32] i'll admit we are beyond the"fight to survvie stage" [19:32] cya opd [19:33] later opd [19:33] that true and that why afte fench/greece that's what we'll have. [19:33] later OPD [19:33] wat victory conditions are toggled on? (i assume all?) [19:33] anyway, I've got to go myself [19:33] especially once we get fp and palace switch [19:33] all are on [19:34] later all [19:34] c ya [19:34] i gtg go too [19:34] * calcII (~jkim199@ool-182e1883.dyn.optonline.net) Quit (leaving on a jet plane..) [19:34] depending on where we put FP and palace... we can probably absorb quite a few more cities that would have minimal (or at least less than 50%) corruption [19:34] it's down to you and me, Aggie... [19:35] I say we call it quits so I can go start another game :-P [19:35] later all [19:35] * adaMada (~adamada@user-0c8hl1p.cable.mindspring.com) Quit (Quit: Talk to you later) [19:35] I figure I'll play as someone I haven't played before this time (last time it was the Indians... didn't like that so much) [19:35] Well, I loved playing as the Indians... just didn't like getting my ass kicked in a war with the Japanese until out finally out-teched them :) [19:35] i agree i better go, I've never played as indians either(i do it randommly everytime [19:36] random, really? [19:36] wow, I've always picked [19:36] yap i use a random generator [19:36] NEVER played as the Persians, for instance [19:36] Actually I got them last time but had a bad startinf position [19:36] or the Egyptians, for that matter (or the Zulus, Babylonians, Russians, French, or Aztecs) played ALL the rest [19:37] My favorite is turning out to be the English, Romans, and Greeks [19:37] i played the egyptians i think my third game and triggered the GA much too early(i still won with a hig score) [19:37] the romans were cool [19:37] yeah, I did that with the English with the Colossus in a recent game... [19:37] my first wonder :o [19:38] bummer [19:38] * Disconnected Session Close: Tue Oct 01 19:38:21 2002