Session Start: Sat Aug 31 14:54:45 2002 Session Ident: #civ3dem [14:54] *** Now talking in #civ3dem [14:54] *** Topic is ' #civ3demMinisters :D' [14:54] *** Set by UberKruX on Sun Aug 11 11:58:13 [14:54] I hate dalnet [14:55] *** rendelnep (rendelnep@async145-8.nas.onetel.net.uk) has joined #Civ3dem [14:55] we all hate dalnet [14:55] Howdy.... I can only connect on twisted.... astro keeps kicking me off. [14:55] GK: http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60624 [14:55] PUBLIC SERVICE MESSAGE: astro.ga.us.dal.net is currently FAAASST! [14:55] sorry to hear that GK [14:55] Me to. [14:56] So if our esteemed executives do not make it, does that mean we can play the game amongst ourselves? >:) [14:56] sadly only MWIA can do that [14:56] wherever the banana he is [14:56] I think that means the game goes back to turnthreads [14:56] well you see it's different now [14:57] MWIA has all the orders anyway [14:57] so this is a courtesy, and lets us handle things that pop up [14:57] I like it like this (all orders ahead) [14:57] Me to. [14:57] I do too, it is very nice [14:57] should make it faster. We get to sit back and watch the show [14:57] * WhiteBandit wonders why we never thought of that before [14:58] test - change of colour, I hope [14:58] Nope [14:58] *** caesarbear (~caesarbea@66.31.167.53) has joined #civ3dem [14:58] hmmmn MWIA has probably got his times mixed up [14:58] testing again [14:58] no [14:59] yeah i got in, now i have to leave :( ARGGGH! [14:59] -> [GodKing] VERSION [14:59] GodKing -> Ctrl + K [14:59] 4like this yo! :) [15:00] 12 [15:00] Cool [15:00] 12like this [15:00] Thanks. [15:00] no problem :) [15:00] Godking: http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=60624 what do you think? [15:01] Loading [15:03] *** OPD (~dwyerowen@pc-80-193-124-196-hb.blueyonder.co.uk) Quit (Quit: ) [15:04] I hope we won't have to go to that... [15:05] *** OPD (~supreme_a@pc-80-193-124-196-hb.blueyonder.co.uk) has joined #civ3dem [15:05] 123 [15:06] Hmm, does someone want me to risk a slave to add to the population? :-/ [15:06] yes WB [15:07] eh. :( [15:07] Which city? [15:07] GK Timeline [15:07] not a bad idea. I'd just prefer to add the slave to a city where he doesn't have a bunch of fellow countrymen that might join him in revolt. [15:07] yeah, do we need a settler that bad though? [15:07] What is GCSE? any body? [15:08] I'd prefer not to lose workers at the moment... we have a hell of a lot of work to do :-/ [15:08] GK Rheims will be auto razed there is talk of the greeks taking the spot but timeline can get a settler there quickly [15:08] If Uber raizes the city, we will soon... could always use the uber isle settler instead. [15:08] the qua;lifications before A levels in the UK in gets us into college [15:08] *its [15:08] General certificate of student education [15:09] Thanks OPD. [15:09] Yeah [15:09] we have a settler in Apolyton [15:10] And uberisle isn't *that* important [15:10] isn't the uber island settler, getting on the boat this turn? [15:10] no, we have to explore uber island first [15:10] cause it could turn out to be 1 square big [15:10] some people say it is important [15:11] the plan, i thought, was to explore w/ a settler [15:11] I am torn. I think it would be better to not raize the city, even if it is still french. [15:11] nay [15:11] GodKing - I agree [15:11] *** Shiber (shiber@212.179.128.37) has joined #civ3dem [15:11] Any is fine it's just that our new cities will be stranded w/o a city on Rheims [15:11] we can take it later [15:11] whew, finally managed to connect [15:11] hi guys [15:11] caesarbear - well it was to explore with a galley, and if the island was fit for settlement, we would "risk" a settler [15:11] hey shiber [15:11] Hi [15:11] OPD - I can connect our cities through Chartres [15:11] hi shiber [15:12] No. We do not risk the settler. Only the galley gets risked. [15:12] hi rendelnep [15:12] Well I imply that we risk the settler in this galley transfer attempt we are doing [15:12] bhah I've been arguing this for that last hour. [15:13] still not MWIA? [15:13] MWIA is MIA! [15:13] he gets confused with GMT [15:13] hmm [15:13] that was lame. :-/ [15:13] no [15:13] WB- according to this plan there's no risk to the settler. : http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0aea8bdb4d23227c74b36fc46805bd28&threadid=60422 [15:13] *** Will5001 (Will5001@80.225.24.216) has joined #civ3dem [15:13] not yet. Not even on polly.. [15:13] caesarbear - I just noticed :) [15:13] *** Donal (Donal@63-93-72-186.lsan.dial.netzero.com) has joined #civ3dem [15:14] However, what is the point of sending a settler over there if we haven't explored Uber Isle? if it turns out to be 1 square big, we lose. [15:14] hi donal [15:14] WhiteBandit, we are not. I'll find you the thread about my sea maneuver in a sec... [15:14] The risk comes if a barbarian ship or even a foreign civ attacks our trimere and sinks us [15:14] to save time [15:14] howdy [15:14] not really, it will be in a stategic location! [15:14] it is a risk [15:14] *** Donal is now known as Guest53845 [15:14] what is the ministers channel name? [15:14] WhiteBandit: we know it's at least 3 squares big :) [15:14] Donal G? [15:15] everything is a risk [15:15] It is close to the homeland & palace, little corruption, and somebody will eventually go there, so better be us. [15:15] They wouldn't let me have Donal Graeme [15:15] i don't think that's a big risk, this plan take 3 turns max [15:15] civ3demministers [15:15] Shiber - I understand. My point is that would it be first to explore the island with our trimere FIRST and then, providing it is habitable, send a settler over? [15:15] "#civ3demministers" [15:15] Shiber- we dont' know that actually [15:15] WB can you spare 1 slave [15:15] For timeline? [15:15] let me see [15:16] Uber island could be nothing but coral reefs [15:16] we should send a settler anyway, we dont want an enemy to have a city so close to apolyton [15:16] we have two of them right? [15:16] DG - cannot have spaces in name. Try to change names but without the space. [15:16] why can't i keep my name? I have forgotten everything about this site... [15:16] WhiteBandit: oh, well, that would mean we'd be risking a galley twice (once when we cross the ocean to explore and again when we transfer the settler) [15:17] Yes, two times a galley is risked. but only the galley, not the settlers [15:17] and if uber island is nothing, we'd be risking the settler 3 - 4 times in returning him home [15:17] anyway, even if the island turns out to be small it can be used as an early warning station in case we're under a naval attack [15:17] or something [15:17] *** Guest53845 is now known as Donal_Graeme [15:17] better [15:17] *** skywalker (skywalker2@AC978BE8.ipt.aol.com) has joined #civ3dem [15:17] WhiteBandit: no, we'll only be risking empty galleys if we carry out all the maneuvers correctly [15:17] hi Donal_Graeme [15:17] hi [15:17] also, we can't let the AI have it [15:17] No, the settler is never risked, even on a return trip [15:18] as Sir_Ralph put it, it is a unsinkable aircraft carrier [15:18] or even an airbase, later on, we could use it as a naval base etc. very usful later on [15:18] we risk one empty galley once. we risk an empty galley again if we realize that the island is small and we'd rather transport the settler back home [15:18] hello all, finally got the name right [15:18] Shiber - aye, but what if Uber Isle is a rock 2 squares ride with mountains? [15:18] *** skywalker is now known as skywalker2588 [15:18] We can't settle [15:18] who has the lighthouse? [15:18] Hi DG [15:18] then we get another galley for the return trip [15:19] sure we can [15:19] has MWIA been here yet? [15:19] has anyone ever know a island with only mountains? [15:19] yes [15:19] many many many [15:19] OPD - I suppose I can risk a slave, but we have a perfectly good settler in Apolyton [15:19] :-/ [15:19] i say settle anyway [15:19] WhiteBandit: then we're fucked up bad [15:19] nope [15:19] oh, ok, yes [15:19] Shiber - Exactly... my point is, explore Uber first with a trireme [15:19] The Aztecs have the lighthouse [15:19] then providing it is habitable, send the settler over [15:19] galley [15:19] here's an idea - actually the original plan [15:19] galley [15:19] WB I don;t mind if the settler comes from poly or timeline as long as one goes there quickly [15:19] if it is an island with all mountains, then the AI can't use it for a city site, so everything is A Ok. [15:19] we should settle whteveris there [15:20] move the first galley THREE squares [15:20] WhiteBandit: the chances are slim [15:20] so we can see the coast [15:20] skywalker2588: no, that would screw up the plan and we'd be risking empty galleys twice [15:20] if it's only mountain or whatever, we don't send the settler galley [15:20] no we wouldn't [15:20] Exploring first gives Time to the enemy [15:20] OPD - I'll risk the slave providing we raze Rheims? That is what this is hinging on right? [15:20] no it doesn't [15:20] Should only have to move the galley 2 squares. [15:20] What if all we see is mountains, but there is more to it? [15:21] then we send the settler [15:21] That's why we send a galley all the way over [15:21] skywalker2588: yes it would. i made the plan, i know, ok? :) [15:21] Listen, we all agree there is an inherent risk. [15:21] How much are we willing to take [15:21] THIS WAS THE ORIGINAL PLAN [15:21] don't turn down a good idea because you can think of something that can go wrong. [15:21] SIGH ... I have to leave at 6:45EST ... Where are our Executives?! [15:21] UBER'S PLAN FROM WAY BACK [15:21] Do we risk 1 empty galley or a galley with a settler? [15:21] it'll work [15:21] To Transport Settler, and spearman, or even another settler, that would be good(?), use the following plan involving 2 Galley's, it is called "Shiber's Manoeuvre" and is as follows: [15:21] "Naming the tiles and galleys for easier reference: [15:21] * Tile A: either the tile S or SE of Apolyton (doesn't matter). It is safe for a galley to end its turn in here. [15:21] * Tile B: the tile SE SE of Apolyton (contains a whale resource). [15:21] how long will it take to make another galley? [15:21] one empty galley [15:21] * Tile C: the tile SE of tile B. [15:21] * Tile D: the tile SE of tile C. [15:21] one sec... [15:21] Risk can be a good thing. [15:21] skywalker2588: i've introduced my own plan to Will5001 and he accepted it [15:21] * Tile E: one of the coastal tiles which we can barely see. It is safe for a galley to end its turn in here. [15:21] * Galley 1: empty at the beginning of the manoeuvre. [15:21] * Galley 2: contains a settler and possibly another unit (another settler or a spearman) at the beginning of the manoeuvre. [15:21] Phase one: [15:21] Both galleys are in tile A. Galley 1 travels to tile C and ends its turn. This is the risky phase, since there's a 50% chance that the galley would sink (but at least it's empty). It's also the only risk involved in this plan. [15:21] If the galley sinks, build a new galley and start again. If it doesn't, move on to phase two: [15:21] Phase two: [15:21] Galley 2 travels to tile B. The settler and the other unit (if any) onboard galley 2 moves to galley 1. [15:21] Phase three: galley 2 travels back to tile A or another coastal or city tile, thus ending the turn safely. Galley 1, now carrying cargo, moves to tile E, thus also ending its turn in safety." [15:22] Phase 1: Underpants [15:22] Phase 3: Profit [15:22] oh [15:22] LOL! [15:22] Phase 2: .. [15:22] in ubers way there were two risked galley [15:22] *galleys [15:22] http://www.apolyton.com/forums/showthread.php?s=0aea8bdb4d23227c74b36fc46805bd28&threadid=60422 [15:22] cheers WB [15:22] but the settler is still not risked [15:22] it all at this site [15:22] Godking do you agree? [15:22] Remember, the settler doesn't have any moves now. 1 move to enter the galley, and 1 to exit. So we must wait one turn. [15:23] yep [15:23] OPD, regarding timeline and slave, if necessary, yes. [15:23] It would take 4 turns to make another galley [15:23] I'd look up ubers plans but I don't want to dig that far back [15:23] Nice [15:23] QUestion: IF two transporta re occupying the same square, can they switch a unit betweem them without wasting the unit's movement [15:23] ? [15:23] Preference would be to let the city survive as french [15:23] Can you switch to settler right now [15:23] send a slave over with the settler [15:23] No [15:23] GK- can't the galley move into 'Poly and get it? [15:23] so we have a jump just in case? [15:23] so they'll have a worker [15:24] waiting a turn won't hurt [15:24] Then if it isn't neccesary, we can switch back to barracks with no penatly (i believe) [15:24] skywalker2588: it was basically move three squares forward, do the settler hop thing and then proceed to uber island [15:24] as we can kill any AI ships that come near [15:24] with uber's plan we risk an empty galley twice [15:24] Hey, does anyone know that we can get Feudalism from France with peace and an ROP? [15:24] caesar, I will look, hold one... [15:24] shiber - but we see the island [15:24] for only 245g [15:24] yes [15:24] we already found that out [15:24] Yes. GK: all that is needed is to switch timeline to work the forset instead of grassland this turn. [15:24] Togas doesn't want to sign a RoP [15:25] we want one [15:25] OPD - Perhaps switch Timeline production to Settler now.. that way we have a jump on things just in case [15:25] so we don't have to take chartres [15:25] yes we know, we are debating whether or not to get Feudalism with peace or to wait until that deal is taken care of. [15:25] i suggested it in the first place but Togas refused [15:25] I wasn't sure, I didn't see it in the forum [15:25] let Timeline finish its Temple. [15:25] the galley can make it into polly, but the settler has no moves left, so it cannot board. [15:25] Timeline is building barracks [15:25] I have to admit that I very much dislike the idea of an ROP anyways [15:25] we wait a turn [15:25] skywalker2588: we don't need to take chartres. we can transfer goods through chartres if we're at peace with france [15:26] We need to start putting the squeeze on Chartres [15:26] no, only if we have an RoP [15:26] I don't want the French that close to us. [15:26] Trevman85: if you want to check the discussion it's in the thread entitled 'France's Surrender' [15:26] Chartres needs to be culturally squeezed. It's now very far away from the French capitol [15:26] they're no threat [15:26] skywalker2588: you're plain wrong [15:26] at least those cities aren't [15:26] you can trade through an AI's territory if you're at peace [15:26] huh? [15:26] skywalker- we dont have to take (raze) chartres w/o a ROP [15:26] afk (MWIA won't be here for half an hour yet) [15:26] i say culture flop Chartres [15:27] skywalker2588 - we don't need an ROP, I just need to connect the road to Chartres (providing we reach peace) and our cities will be connected [15:27] oh [15:27] I thought we needed an RoP [15:27] nope [15:27] I personally thought we needed an ROP so I could enter French territory with workers [15:27] I think it says that in the (hah!) manual :rolleyes: [15:27] but it appears I don't [15:27] So it will work [15:27] Donal_Graeme: so do i (check the 'Fill-in the gaps' thread, it's got suggestions for new cities that will fill in gaps in our territory as well as help culture-flip chartres and possibly rheims later) [15:27] OPD - what was that about MWIA [15:27] you do need an RoP [15:27] skywalker2588 - nope. They get mad once, then forget about it [15:28] but with enough settlers you can build the road and leave before they get REALLY mad [15:28] I just simmed that in 3 different games and it looks like it works [15:28] skywalker2588: find it in the manual [15:28] i'm 100% positive you're wrong [15:28] I used a worker as an explorer :) [15:28] but it is the morning over there, how can he be late!!1 [15:28] It's Saturday, the man is sleeping in! [15:28] skywalker2588: if you enter their territory with a worker they ask you to leave but once you start digging a road they ignore it [15:28] ROP is unimportant. period. [15:28] :) [15:28] he is sleeping [15:28] they won't get mad at workers only [15:28] although it is a risk [15:28] ACtually, it is Sunday there [15:29] except for diplomatic barginaning and $ [15:29] oh [15:29] Damn aussies [15:29] for him it is sunday... [15:29] it'll be around midday where he is! [15:29] late day at church.... [15:29] don't you DARE SAY THAT [15:29] it is now 10:30 AM his time [15:29] what church? [15:29] Shiber - still, you're not ALLOWED to [15:30] i think "damn aussies" [15:30] no idea. Just guessing. [15:30] they just don't enforce the rule [15:30] skywalker2588 - yes you are... hehe it works [15:30] it cant be, he is 12 hours from GMT [15:30] load up Civ3 and do it [15:30] nothing happens [15:30] it is now 11:30pm GMT [15:30] skywalker2588: we've proven that it works [15:30] WELL WE ARE NO AUSSIE WE ARE KIWIS AND YOU FORGET THAT [15:30] nothing happens because the AI doesn't enforce the rule [15:30] When MWIA says 2300 he means gmt not the time in UK which is BST ATM [15:30] you can try it for yourself [15:30] I thought New Zealanders were Kiwis? [15:30] but if they send a worker in, you can complain and get it kicked out [15:30] MWIA is australian I thought? [15:31] therefore I AM correct [15:31] MWIA said 10 am his time, 2300 HMT [15:31] er GMT [15:31] skywalker2588 - yes, but it doesn't work the other way around [15:31] Call it a bug [15:31] but we're taking advantage of it [15:31] I'm confused. Stupid Brits! Shoulda stopped having colonies after 1776... [15:31] no he isn't this flag doe';snt have engough stars [15:31] hehe [15:31] So MWIA is a kiwi? [15:31] yes [15:31] which = New Zealand? [15:32] hehhe [15:32] and the US doesn't have colonies? [15:32] I'm an ignorant Yankee, forgive me. [15:32] Sure we do [15:32] GK: timeline must switch to working the forest tile. AFK [15:32] actually, the US does have colonies [15:32] Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Britain, South Korea, Japan [15:32] Will: the US has COMMON WEALTHS.. which are... exactly the same :) [15:32] the American Empire................. [15:32] under the euphamism TERRITORIES [15:32] Question, I would like to post a poll about changing the luxury tax to 10%, so that Banana HQ and Apolyton get bigger. Any remarks? [15:32] OPD: agree. [15:32] So you, Kiwis ready to loose the America's Cup :) [15:32] no, commonwealths have nothing to do with colonies [15:33] We have Guam . . . [15:33] virginia and massachusettes are commonwealths [15:33] And Diego Garcia [15:33] and puerto rico [15:33] and the marianas [15:33] really? lets see. commonwealth. we tax them and don't let them vote. [15:33] well we don't taxa ll of them [15:33] and I think some of the virgin islands [15:33] NO! [15:33] ACtually, Guam and Puerto Rico are Protectorates [15:33] we don't tax puerto rico [15:33] There is a difference [15:33] whatever [15:34] the colonies may be commonwealths, but that's not WHY they are colonies [15:34] they are putting up a fight about it. good for them [15:34] VIRGINIA is a commonwealth [15:34] Basically, ppl in PR are almost autonomous [15:34] hmm [15:34] Commonwealths are better than states, Territories are cheap labor [15:34] http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/usa_can/states/cwealth.htm [15:34] states AND territories (i.e. colonies) can be commonwealths [15:34] sigh -like britain :( [15:34] PR gets all the benefits from the US except voting, and aren't taxed [15:34] commonwealths are just ways for senators and representatives to make themselves feel good [15:34] Perhaps we should talk about the game... [15:34] not to mention all those anti-democratic pro-american governments........ [15:34] lol [15:34] it means nothing [15:35] i should start a #civ3dem-REALLIFE channel [15:35] well, the pres.is not here!! [15:35] actually, puerto rico IS taxed, just not federally [15:35] Maybe a dingo got him [15:35] or a kiwi... [15:35] sky, well of course there is sales tax. no income tax [15:35] we might as well discuss while we wait [15:35] Any Remarks on my suggestio to set the luxury rate to 10%? [15:35] Donal_Graeme - Go for it [15:35] sounds ok to me [15:35] or rather [15:35] I am in favor [15:36] there are taxes paid to the puerto rican government [15:36] donal-- what would we get out of it right now? [15:36] That would let Banana HQ and Apolyton get bigger [15:36] sky- they don't have a local government per say. less than a state has [15:36] oh ok [15:36] I would not have it occur for six turns [15:36] go for it [15:36] At the cost of how many LPT? [15:36] I'll be clearing jungle around BHQ in the next few turns [15:36] that is the time it takes for Banana HQ to grow [15:37] *** GK (GodKing@65.56.186.169) has joined #civ3dem [15:37] hi [15:37] WE lose approx. 2 LPT, but the extra commerce from the tiles worked should make up for it [15:37] hi GK [15:37] got cut off.... [15:37] OPD - If you do in fact want me to use that slave later, please remind me, otherwise I will forget :) [15:37] ghengisfarb was taken?! [15:37] wow [15:37] your IP really changed [15:37] odd... [15:37] only 2? wow [15:37] whose? [15:37] -> [skywalker2588] PING [15:37] -> [skywalker2588] VERSION [15:37] -> [WhiteBandit] VERSION [15:38] Godking to GK changed two octets [15:38] make that 3 [15:38] *** GK is now known as Guest65603 [15:38] ??? - [15:38] WhiteBandit is whiteband@lsanca1-ar16-4-47-002-032.lsanca1.elnk.dsl.genuity.net * WhiteBandit [15:38] WhiteBandit on #civ3demMinisters #civ3dem [15:38] WhiteBandit using astro.ga.us.dal.net drawn to the rhythm. [15:38] WhiteBandit has been idle 41secs, signed on Sat Aug 31 14:55:10 [15:38] WhiteBandit End of /WHOIS list. - [15:38] oh much better [15:38] *** Guest65603 is now known as god_king [15:38] *** GodKing (GodKing@65.59.37.249) Quit (Ping timeout) [15:39]