Start of #Apolyton buffer: Fri Feb 15 22:00:42 2002 *** Now talking in #Apolyton *** Topic is 'Apolyton.net irc channel -- Chat This Friday Feb/15/2002 - New Patch now availiable on Civ3.com' *** Set by ACS_MarkG on Thu Feb 14 22:54:15 hi any here? a few of us are waiting for the start... when is the start? 16:00est (21:00gmt) 70 minutes from now ok thanx np I'm just here. I don't want to miss the start, and if I do I want to be able to read what happened. :p nod hi hi any 1 wantagame of civ2 11haas any1got Civ 2 multiplayer * Schee[pas_la] est de retour ( la raison était : Ben chuis pas là, quoi... ) greetings people 35 minutes to go howdy i thought of a question to ask, pity i forgot what it was... dont worry it will come back to you :D unlikely... i think my brain's FAT have been corrupted hi mark :) how things? good my pc at home is gone for service but i was able to get in an internet cafe... so ur in a cafe now? yeap better than at work 90% of the people here playing couner strike :D hehe i bet its full with israelis lots of them go to greece when its cold in israel never heard something like that.... a 10 year old is on the pc next to me shooting at virtual people.... ;) i played cs a lot now im getting seek hearing the name sick tell them to play multiplayer civ 3 ;) its better hehe think it's gonna cost another $50 to get multiplayer for civ3? ye probably but im willing to pay that's messed up but it will b more the multi i think more then all they gotta do is add #define MULTIPLAYER=TRUE and recompile prolly doubt it :) i can't see them not designing the datastructes and programs without multiplayer in mind maybe they are doing somthing new to to the tbs multiplyer somthing genius that we cant think of right now judging by the fact that adding scenario abilities is not an easy task(if it was it would have been done by now), i dont think there is a lot of multiplayer code in it... lack of foresight then, eh? Hello hey lo Markos, will there be a turny for 1.17f anytime soon. Is Firaxis here yet? I've no school next week, and I think about playing some, but I don't want to fill my HD with another installation of Civ3 (1.16f) if i get my computer tomorrow i migh make a new tournament over the weekend Is the newest Civ3 Edit version 1.15.0.1? *** Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS has joined #Apolyton Hi Jeff Hey Hey! Hi yo! hey jeff! This one gonna be moderated? *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS It will depend on the number of people and how good they 'll behave :D rgr rgr? Dan's on his way...roger..ok deathmatch syntax Been playing a lot of medal of honor mp oh (said the civilized peacefull gamer) Is the newest version of Civ3 Edit version 1.15.0.1? 2.10 according to the about civ3edit menu option 2.10 is the BIC file version IIRC Really? I just downloaded the fixed one from CivFans and it was version 1.15.0.1? hang on 1.15 for the editor 2.10 for the bic okay... Mine is 1.15 (no .0.1) What is the bic? The rules file the game uses civ3mod.bic is the civ3 game *** Sombero has joined #apolyton How do you find the version of which bic you are using? Sombero please use a more proper name ;) *** Sombero is now known as Sombrero_Del_Muerte BIC = Binary Interchange Code actually bic was the nick name of an intern we had *** Sombrero_Del_Muerte is now known as Dan_Magaha_SOMBRERO i was thinking of something Dan_Magaha_Firaxis ;) he started the editor... LOL jeff wow a file type named after you :) alora hi johnie Markg:) But what bic stands for doesn't tell me what version I'm using??? For the next patch, can you make an from 1.17f upgrade (not including all the horesman flics) along with the from original patch Maybe...but we try to redue confusion with a single history patch (and we NEED to reduce the confusion) reduce Maybe if we can get an auto-updating system working i think you've reduced enough. ... in fact, you totally killed it ;) Uh oh...Provost Harrison is here.... Thanks hehe Guess who :-) We try Murphy was an optomist Uh oh... Hey Did you change the cpatured workers titles to not include nationality other then if you right-click on them? Or am I remembering wrong? Murphy was an optometrist? Murphy's Law? We had a number of gramatical changed needed to be made for localization. Worker nationality was one Indeed Lots of worker:german rather than german worker for instance "Everything that can go wrong, will go wrong" --Murphy's Law is multiplayer going to be a future patch or a future purchase? No comment So how do I find the bic version # I'm using? hehehe Oooooh Well, I have a worker (Egypt) that, if I right-click on it is a (Roman) Worker hehe It does say on editor 'about' I think it's read in the editor. Jeff, anyone else coming(Soren, Mike, Sid ;)) Beer might after an intern interview has your worker been assimilated ? I captured it. But I am Egypt Hey, here's an interesting bug, if you group goto and you have an army in the city and move a single unit of that type, it will take the units out of the army. Gramphos, love c3mt any chance of getting a filter in the city tab? Yay! Mine is Version 1.15, BIC 2.10 Soren's working on it as we speak Cool, just noticed that earlier... Maybe, if I can get it work without interupting the unitfiler *sigh* We're close to starting to post mods and maps on civ3.com. let us know if you want us to host it gramphos ProvostHarrison: that is interesting - can always do it - then it would definately be a useful bug ok, let's get started... 30 secs moderation *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +m Greetings to everyone and welcome to one more Apolyton chat the second patch is fresh(Firaxis showed us their love yesterday ;)) and we're here with Jeff Morris and Dan Magaha to talk about it(and more!) If you're all nice boys we'll be fine and have this chat unmoderated and if not then do we commence the spanking? ... timing this means not having 4 questions per second k *** Soren_Johnson_Firaxis has joined #Apolyton lets try it *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: -m Is my Worker (Egypt) a bug? No Localization change When it is a (Roman) Worker, and I'm Egypt? and please welcome Soren Jooooooohnson! :) If you captured it, no hello To everyone at Firaxis, this was quite a comprehensive patch. Good job. I think your 'o' key is stuck Markos ;-) i can't stay for too long... gotta meeting. thank you soren, how goes the coding on the stack movement? :) I think it should read Worker (Roman) *** Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS has joined #Apolyton ok, rule #1: no questions about multiplayer I have been using the stack movement feature, very handy. Well, if you joined it to a city, it would be an egyptian but if you say it is as it is supposed to be, then I'll not complain yaaaaaay wonders if the AI appreciates when its given back its captured units *** Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS1 has joined #Apolyton I did not oin a city. frequent chat question #1: any plans for an expansion? I did captre it no comment yes, the AI likes getting its units back... good :) Great Patch. Any future plans you can give to us... I am expanding my waistline, if that helps you out Mark I'm saying if you did join it to a city, it would be egyptian...units have nationality It was on a city tile that got rased due to no culture, size 1 *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Javier_Sobrado_FIRAXIS1 :) ...in fact, it will have a worse attitude toward you if you keep a lot of its workers as slaves. one more welcome to Javier Talk about coy :-) hmmm...drop me a line about it and I'll check it out...jmorris@firaxis.com hi all hello Hi there Javiar ;-P HAW! bwahahahaha thank you just a dl :) ah what city is Firaxis located in? ? Baltimore havnt tried patch yet, anything on grouping of loaded units in a stack? is software piracy effecting game sales? so, why did this patch took so long? or not? Hunt Valley to be precise, right down the street from Ripken mansion Any plans for additional Patches, future projects, ect Was that email address for me? QA was handled differently for one...more infogrames involvment I don't think it did take that long, just came by surprise more than anything... jmorris@firaxis.com send me the details plus, this was more of a "feautures" patch spank-it: does software piracy ever *not* affect software sales? *** Retrieving #Apolyton info... Provost that was thanks to the new PR policy ;) Soren, will the AI have a worse attitude toward you if you use lots of their workers to increase the populations of your own cities? LOL Chris: as long as you don't then sacrifice their citizens, the AI prefers if you add them to your cities. as opposed to using them as slaves *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Soren_Johnson_Firaxis Soren -- thx Soren, your AI code is especially impressive. What is your education and experience? I never add those nasty slaves to my cities ;-) Soren, the AI never seems to stack large number of catapults/cannon/artillery to soften up cities during an invasion. Was this a deliberate choice because your stack of bombardment units are too slow? I've got an MS in Computer Science from Stanford Is there a way to view your maps in the Editor in a zoomed out mode? and I worked on AI for awhile at EA as a member of the military overseas i had trouble buying a verison that would ship to my military address... Was the way stack movement was implement a necessity or a choice? I mean , was a ctp2-like stack model possible? Yeah, that would be a real handy feature in the editor if you had a smaller window/full map view of the world you have created. Send a check to... Khan not at the moment, from what I understand it is difficult to add zoom to the editor rdomarat: stacking artillery is a somewhat extreme strategy, which is usually hard for the AI. Maybe I should have concentrated more on that option, though... If I take a tank against a stack of several knights, i only get one attack and my turn is over. if I assault a square with 1 knight, i conquer it and am allowed to attack again. why the penalty for assaulting stacks? It's my industrial age bread and butter Question: Why do the city governors disobey instructions to "emphasize food|commerce|production" ? I choose "emphasize commerce and emphasize production" and the governor places my citizens on a 3/0/0 grassland wheat square instead of a 1/2/2 forest fur square. Why? * ChrisShaffer notes that the city wouldn't starve if the forest was selected instead of the grassland how about what Provost suggested by adding a mini map window to the Editor? by a stack i dont mean a city, i mean a stack of enemies on the open terrain We're aware of the feature request..We'll do waht we can the editor feature you shouldn't be able to attack twice with a knight. Thanx np i am attacking with a tank that can attack multiple times Were the suggestions from players at fan sites helpful as you considered what to do for the patch? the tank can attack multiple times if i assault squares with one unit inside if i assault stacked squares, i only get 1 attack with my tank why concerning stack movement: there is no perfect solution. Our solution works great for some cases because it has so little overhead (since you never have to actually organize the stack. Hit 'j' and click)... ...of course, certain playing styles would work better with a more comprehensive solution... Question: Will my old saves work after I upgrade to the new patch One useful feature for the stack would be so it just moves those activated not those fortified, for example, when moving workers out of a city to clean up pollution, you don't want to bring the whole lot with you... oh... that's a known bug. We're working on it. I like the stack implementation because it's reduced 8-12 move orders to 2 or 3...big improvement ...so it's a tough call. The solution we came up with was also simply, which reduced the risk of introducing bugs... ...or smac player ;) ...but of course, there already is one known bug with stack movement... tough question(probably): didnt you see the need for stack movement before the release? "was also simple" Hey cooper! Shaggy's in the house units should be allowed to GoTo boats.... allow them to auto-load but that bug would definately be a feature if you could re-add units :)) (wishful thinking) hello all markG: we should have, but the end of projects get so crazy that it is easy to miss obvious improvements sometimes You can readd the units to an army can't you? does a sentried unit get the fortified bonus? When negotiating peace, how does the AI evaluate you, by Power, Culture, or Score? If Power or Culture, can we get numerical representation of those items in a future patch/expansion? Were the suggestions from players at Apolyton helpful in your considerations for the patch? revStang: yes greetings and salutations earthlings and civ lovers after you get the MAccademy like ? Gest123: by power mostly greets Sirotnikov Jeff have we surpassed 1 mil copies yet? Hello there Siro. why have you fixed the city size 6 zhing? who said it was a bug? ;) Apolyton has always been a useful source of feedback... Thank you Sombrero No business stuff...we're doing exceptionally we well pitk: nice try leaving work now to play Civ III yo ph :P any future plans you can let us know about? * ChrisShaffer wonders if there will be an answer to the question about city governors Not yet.. Chris: please repeat Thank you, Soren. It feels good to be acknowledged. We plan to make more great games ;-) *** Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS has joined #Apolyton Is Javier a phony? Has there been a change on the people working for civ3 since the release of simgolf? or is it two separate teams? Question: Why do the city governors disobey instructions to "emphasize food|commerce|production" ? I choose "emphasize commerce and emphasize production" and the governor places my citizens on a 3/0/0 grassland wheat square instead of a 1/2/2 forest fur square. Why? You know it how simgolf doing? *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS When atttempting to trade with the AI for luxuries you don't have and offering luxuries that they don't have, the AI always wants 2 to 3 times more than they are giving up. If this a reflection n the fact that my Civ may be twice to three times the size of their Civ, or is it just the AI making things harder for us humans (PS : The AI kicked my ass last night, thanks Soren!) hahaha Dimorier.. I ask myself that every day any information on the "late game crashes" and/or possible resolution (I know, that may be too general ) will the editor one day able to make goals like capture the flag? Beer in the hizouse and the man behind the editor, Miiiiiiiike Breitkreutzzzzzz! :) Fixed in v117 In the editor there are invisible buttons to add espionage missions. about programming, how come recalculation of trade networks is so slow? * Dan_Magaha_SOMBRERO thinks MarkG secretly wants to be a club DJ Golf was 6th on NPD top 10 last week ;-) let me know if '1950's' fatals exist in new games on v1.17f will there be a mechanism to allow us create new missions? ok Is Power recalculated within the player's turn or do you negotiate based on Power ranking of previous turn? rdomarat: they might be nicer to you if you were not such a good player and far ahead of the AI - or maybe they just hate you lol Chris: the governors do not ignore the instructions... however, the governor put a high weight on food, so sometimes that overrides the prefs. If it was a 2/0/0 square, I bet the governor would have picked the forest. and also prog., how come pathfinder wasnt right the first time? soren have you coded the whole thing yourself? power is calculated between turns (after the cities finish building) better yet: is it possible to create a mechanism to allow us to create new espionage missions? Will Civs still ignore requests to leave in 1.17f? (You know, saying they will leave, but then ignoring you...) or is it hardcoded? :) f To increase your Power, do you need to have strategic resources connected by road or is it enough that they are within your territory? also, can the end of turn button be moved from diplomacy button. it sucks, the position of that button Soren: What pathfinder(s) did you use ? they need to be connected by road... i believe the Ai is more responsive to requests to get out. which is not to say they always will. Soren: is there anyway we can get better control over our citzens when the city governor is on? he seems to turn scientists into tax collectors quite frequently... perhaps he can be trained to follow my lead? our pathfinding is basically A*, and we wrote it ourselves. Sirotnikov: regarding esp. missions, I don't think you will be able to create new missions but you will be able to configure the existing missions. I've never had any bother with the pathfinder myself... uh, and clicking on lines of text instead of buttons of text is annoying too. thats about it as far as my minor rants :) When the AI evaluates your military strength, does quantity or quality of units matter? repeated question at Soren's request: Question: Why do the city governors disobey instructions to "emphasize food|commerce|production" ? I choose "emphasize commerce and emphasize production" and the governor places my citizens on a 3/0/0 grassland wheat square instead of a 1/2/2 forest fur square. The city would not starve if the governor used the forest. Why does it use the grassland? Maybe this was asked , but will there be a patch to the editor to add techs and units side note on governors -- Extreme thanks for auto-managing happiness!!! Chris: did you see my response? ah, I see your answer above Soren yes oh cool, thanks mike. I like the way the AI returns to the neasest piece of nomansland rather than return its nearest city ala smac Surely the forest/fur should be 1/3/2? ;-) though i sure hoped i could, since, i have some ideas so then the question is: Why does the governor override the prefs? * ChrisShaffer was in despotism Provost which i even posted here 2 years ago :( OK, I'll let you off this once then ;-) * ChrisShaffer chuckles If they refuse to get out, shouldn't they have to declare war the way we do? libertarian's right :) How many responses did you get to the Firaxis Beta Testing Team? chris: well, it is not overriding anything. it is making a decision, and the prefs are one of the factors it considers. it's highest priority, however, is feeding it's citizens, which is why it puts a high priority on 3+ food tiles Hey, I've kicked them out of my territory before... over 400 hundreds I have to aggre with Lib lot of resume's I assume you haven't formed the Beta Testing Team yet because you didn't contact me right? :) Are you done with choosing who's in the beta team? soren, a question, you have respectable expirience on this. Is it even remotely possible that once there will be AI that will match the human in every aspect? not to say the current one is bad, but you know what I mean :) Well we still have to do the swimsuit and talent competitions So tell us, what did you do exactly to "Eliminate 'Despot Pop Rushing'"? You can kick them out. try asking them to leave on back to back turns I'm glad to see that the new patch is a lot more stable. With the previous patch I got a lot of crashes but they have gone now... hehe When calculating military strength as component of Power does quantity or quality of units matter? A question to both Dan and Soren: "What's your view of the various open source versions like Freeciv, Civ-evo and CoC?" Same question as Dimorier_Maximus... I think they are great personally Why were the Citizen and Improvements defense ratings raised so high? They are at 16 now. do more than 2 automated workers clean up pollution now? I played until late last night, first impresion of the patch is a thumbs up Javier: Sometimes they leave, and sometimes they don't. They never have to declare war when they stay. They are designed for a much more narrowly-focused audience and can do things that we can't Is there a timetable for the "big patch" 1Are planes still kept from eliminating units? Question: Why did you choose to have the domestic advisor popup to notify of civil disorder after the city has gone into disorder, instead of the turn before? Sparkit: Yes, the 2 cap limit was eliminated. How about planes and boats? pitk: the reason that AI's have a difficult time matching humans in games like Civ is that _the rules are not set at the beginning of the project_. If I was writing a chess AI, I have the benefit of knowing exactly what the game is. Civ 3's rules weren't finalized until very late in the project, which makes AI development very hard I can't see what you write Guest08423 Lib: if you ask them to leave turn after turn, you will get the option to tell them to leave or declare war. Yeah, it would be good that under overwhelming artillery barrage that a unit can be destroyed... *GuestJon_Miller JonMiller, at the moment, yes suggestion for new building: Bomb Shelter (reduces risk of citizens from being killed by artillery) Javier: Yes, that should be the case. But unless 1.17 changed things, it isn't. Why were the Citizen and Improvements defense ratings raised so high? They are at 16 now. q: who is really firaxis staff and who is not? Javy it's also based on how long they've been in your borders and so on, isn't it? If that could be edited (changed so that planes could destroy units) that would be very cool What's the reasoning behind the inability to snik ships with your bombers? Jon, that's why I said "at the moment" ;) lightblue10 ditto what MarkG asked Yeah, artillery mode should be allowed to destroy units, but you could make that last point x amount harder to destroy than the other points... too much people here... I thought they've explained that before. Game balance, isn't it? On the other hand soren, chess is much simpler game. much simpler. Meaning that both the human and computer have more freedom and less need and less ability to precalculate the most optimal path. adapting is the key. anyway I think your AI is very good. we ll see if it stays so for a yeas or two :) mark: planes can't sink ships for game balance. In other words, in order to control the seas, you must have at least a small navy. The different types of units are meant to complement each other. why the SOMBRERO Dan Magaha? Why not! pitk: also true Why wouldn't you want a Sombrero? You obviously never saw the picture Jon. Ok, one more: what was the problem with all units having zone control? hmmm... I tohught Dan formed his own SOMBRERO company perhaps not (or at least I do not recall) mark: do you mean the old ZOC or the new ZOC? or ZOG? :spam: Mark Cut and paste the answer for ships/bombers for the site. Maybe they'll quiet some people ok acooper :) When calculating Power, does it matter the quantity or quality of your military units? soren, i mean civ2-style zoc What is the best size map to play 16 Civs on? (so that there are some small ones and other larger ones) mark: we felt that civ1/2-style ZOCs were not fun or intuitive. They were were wargamy, which is not what we were aiming for. Preventing units from moving is not a good thing, in general ...and we felt that the new border rules functioned like a "cultural ZOC" afk a while... Question: Will my current saves work after I upgrade to the new patch? I'm glad ZOC is gone - good move as long as the ai respects borders :) I quite like the present system, it means you have to build proper walls, or if they try and go along and around, they get shots taken at them. Sorenif you build a heap load of units you can set your own ZOCs ;) And... why are the original world maps so ugly ? (like in all civ) hey hey all Can we get numerical representation of Power and Culture in the Histograph in the future? Hey there DF! here comes the constitution to further clarify planes, we felt that air units had been the uber unit in Civ 1,2, and SMAC, and that turning them into "airborne artillery" would rebalance the game :) Why it's DF Why was the civ2 air base removed? Question: Would it be possible to have the domestic advisor popup to warn of civil disorder the turn before the city goes into disorder? i've got a programmer meeting... see ya all I agree that they were overpowered (but it would still be nice to use them realistically) bye bye Bye Have a good weekend bye 1cya *** Soren_Johnson_Firaxis has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) bye soren Bye, Soren. Thanks! bye soren there has to be a warning if you forget a city in disorder we miss you soren Cya Yeah, a popup would be quite handy... there is a warning, but it happens after the city goes into disorder, not before seems i missed the best stuff will there ever be any new terrain improvements ie: Airbases, radar bases, or is this impossible Q: does the patch changes graphic files? made a mod and don't want it to be erased it should be easy to tell if a city is about to go into disorder and notify the player so that they can reassign workers to avoid disorder Actually I am sure you get a popup now since the second patch but never did (for Civil Disorder) bleh, bad grammar The only graphics changed since v1.16f was the next era buttons on the science advisor ProvostHarrison, you get the popup *after* the city has already gone into disorder cool :) Any chance of making the Domestic Nag option in future patch? You know, Would you like to build a hospital.... Yeah...I like the old pop-ups for civil disorder like civ2....sometimes, my cities stay in disorder because I don't notice the steam...you really have to pay attention No I don't want a hospital! I want my underlings to be smart enough to tell me *before* the city goes into disorder Possbily Yeah, true, it would be good to get a warning pop-up. After all it should because it is accessible data from another screen. maybe instead of popups a list you could look at so jeff, lets say it one more time: you do know we scenario abilities, right? ;) I've sent it now *sigh* Thanks, Jeff. (Guess that was for me.) scenarios! What are scenarios? jeff, why deoesnt water cycle in civ3? hahaha Coop: LOL! must have scenarios! Yeah, perhaps give the names a different colour in the list of cities on F1 that would work -- just some easy way to tell which cities are about to go into disorder, so I can fix it aaaaaaaargh (popups can annoy, especially when changing governemnts) It took time to get all info without having to count happy/sad faces :) actually i do remember enjoying looking at the national advisor and getting a city's name in red before revolting ha ha ha i didn't notice anything similar in civ3 ChrisShaffer : You never know when a riot will break out in a city, so I think it's reasonable that you can only react once it's hapenned Concerning popups, just do what Freeciv, either display on the console, a popup, or suppress them completely or am i blind? If it makes you feel any better Mark I am one of the biggest proponents of mod stuff Sirotnikov- I miss that from SMAC as well q: Is there any chance of Firaxis releasing an in-house WW2 scenario, sorta how it was done in Civ2 now jeff, that was the wrong answer. you need to go to a PR school ;) rdomarat - but you do know when a riot will break out -- all you have to do is use the domestic advisor and count all the little faces What's a PR? i know one: "The Yin University" :D yeah, ww2 rules What's a Yin? Puerto Rican School? it just takes too much time... lol I was talking in the "real world" No not yin! Stonewalling :) isn't "Yin" a curse in Firaxian? ;) Airbases? Possible? Please? jeff, why deoesnt water cycle in civ3? the opposite of yang....Oh that Yin! :) It's more like a "he who cannot be named" *** notyoueither has joined #Apolyton Isn't 'Yin' Korean for 'pedantic' ;-) How old is Jeff? ;-) Is it appropriate to talk about Yin wile he's not here? LOL 32 Dan, Jeff mentioned that you're about to start a maps&mods section on civ3.com? Did we get an answer to the Airbase question? Are Firaxians married? lol * ChrisShaffer thinks Yin will read it in the log file later... Yeah...picked 6 and are waiting for their authors ok well it's not required Jon, but some of us are Oops I certainly hope so. hmmm... Yes Mark, that's what I hear Oh did I mention I want scenarios? ;) You don't say? :D cool, so all the legal idiocies eeer i mean issues, is behind us :) Or airbases I'd PAY for the ability to make and use scenarios ;) I was just wandering what with all the time spent making games hint, hint from DF ;-) Mark, never say never... it's more like we've just cleared the first hurdle quiet DF We're starting with maps and may move on to apps, but they're pretty different beasts lol well that's just me of course Maybe Firaxis could pay some people to make scenarios for them? DF they were waiting for you to say "pay" :) great news and i said it ;) BreBro is really good... Anything is possible jeff, why deoesnt water cycle in civ3? even i don't get your question, pitk What do you mean pitk or john petroski dimorier why can't I see the wind blow I mean a la civ 1 or harlan thompson lol@ harold waves It doesn't cycle in Civ2 either pitk, except for ToT Do fortified units still activate when they are mass-upgraded? huh like the graphics water or iirigation water ?? I took it personaly, the lack of it oh you mean the graphics? ... 26026: Yes. there was no civ2 chat, was there :)) yes, the graphics.. why have you taken that simple feature out? Is resource distribution for generated maps truly random, or dos the AI get an advantage at higher levels with more resources closer to it's starting location? speaking of graphics... what will airbases look like? Man I hate it when I have to pretend I'm working. I bet I missed all the good answers! casue the format they use for terrain dosent support animations What about me an john and petroski DavidFloyd? *** JohnPaulJones has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** Guest32451 has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** shuttleswo has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** DavidFloyd has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** furtigan has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** KithrupFugitive has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** Guest54627 has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** Harold25 has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** JohnF has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** Alex1 has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** rdomarat has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** GuestJon_Miller has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) *** Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS has quit IRC (rhythm.hub.us.dal.net fork.ca.us.dal.net) netsplit. netsplit... ooops there goes one server.... huh? Ooops, what happened there? SPilitters!! what some people wont do to skip a question ;) whoops like color-cycling? good question... it's not that it was "taken out" because the game code isn't really derivative of previous civ games LOL whats dat quote from da life of Brian ?:D one of the dalnet server went offline We lost our Firaxis! their server went down, or was disconnected from the rest of the servers, one or the other Mark banned the Firaxis staff!!! ;) Dan is still here :) But we still got our Sombrero Sombrero power alone kept me here it was simple palete animation, added much to the map hah LOL lol @ dan *** Guest32451 has joined #Apolyton *** JohnPaulJones has joined #Apolyton *** shuttleswo has joined #Apolyton *** DavidFloyd has joined #Apolyton *** furtigan has joined #Apolyton *** Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS has joined #Apolyton *** KithrupFugitive has joined #Apolyton *** Guest54627 has joined #Apolyton *** Harold25 has joined #Apolyton *** JohnF has joined #Apolyton *** Alex1 has joined #Apolyton *** rdomarat has joined #Apolyton *** GuestJon_Miller has joined #Apolyton *** Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS has joined #Apolyton *** fork.ca.us.dal.net sets mode: +vv Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS LOL lol but ok, wont bother you more, just wanted my complaint noted :) wb all And back they come... So Dan, quick PR test: why is Sid posting on the simgolf forums and not the civ3 ones? ;) welcom I tend to agree, I think there were some concerns about "over animating" Where you at Dan , Mexico ? What do you do for Firaxis Dan? welcome back hmmm Still wondering about airbases Jon_miller, Can't be I'm still here! nice to have you back Mark: because Sid is Sid :) Question: Any plans to make it possible to use multiple mods without needing to merge the .bic files? Maximus, I am an Associate Producer now, and still do some web stuff as needed what does associate producer mean? Erh how much of design process is Sid's anyway ? it's a fuzzy concept So you are in charge of production schedules and such now, Dan? who cares, sids only human too * pitk hides :) Something like that, yeah... Is that what you really think pitk? ;-) In Empire, there was an ability to create battle groups by "attaching" units to each other... this would satisfy the desire for combined arms stacking... any chance for Civ3? Be careful about the Sid questions. We don't want him to lose his job you guys need to do a 24-hours video of sid working on civ ;) *** Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS1 has joined #Apolyton lol This chat is unfinished Maybe one of you guys can answer this question. Sid's parents are immiigrants from Europe aren't they? Good for you, SOMBRERO, I hope you got a raise with that. ;-) *** Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS was kicked by ACS_MarkG () 2«Script For MEGANET2« 3,0() lol @job *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS1 how many units or what formula is used to "completley suppress a reversion" I know some of his family is European =) jeff, what do you mean? Soren detailed it in a post Let's try again after the purge/unpurge. Is resource distribution on randomly generated maps truly random or does the AI get an advantage with more resources closer to it's starting position at higher levels? Maximus: who needs a raise when you love your job :D Just all the disconnections... is sid jewish? geniuses are often jews ;) Maximus: don't tell my boss though :P einstein = theory of relativety sid = civilization I know his father comes from Austra, Meier is a bit more common name there I could do with a job I love. I just quit my PhD as I was hating it. Do you have any jobs for well paid biochemists going at Firaxis? :-) Tester j/k do you firaxians like civfanatics more or apolyton? meier is a very jewish name someone reported finding an army(!) in a hut after the patch!? Is that possible? Well, if you are in charge of deadlines....I'd say you need a raise...that is stressful business, Dan. * pitk hides from markG :P Geniuses are often Jews? Moronic. Civfantics has a pretty different tone to be sure...they're both valuable I knew it! :)) no comment dimorier, are you trying to bribe dan to make patches faster? argh, what has gone on I rember reading in the back of the Civ1 manual that beer should have been added as a recsoure to aid the growth of population - any chance of anyone adding this in a mod ? go right ahead? Maximus: well as I'm cutting my teeth as an associate producer I'm not yet the one "in charge" of anything crazy chat room 'twas a joke dear sir some of you people leave so it quits crashing! :D notice the nice smiley Breitkreutz would like that david - lead the way :p Question: Why do the city governers (who are very nice people, by the way) keep producing food, even if the city cannot grow anymore (e.g. size 6 w/o aquaduct)? jeff, sid said in an interview about golf "...and it helped history of the world wasnt at stake this time :)..." ... its much pressure to work on civ, eh? It's not a walk in the park, to be sure You bet...but the rewards are well worth it Are there any Firaxians left? yes Why were airbases left off? Any plans on bringing them back? No comment does firaxis get unusually high royalties? Hehe :)) yes pitk should hide :-D haha It helps when you actually ship LOL @ pitk Remember with replies: No=no and 'no comment'=Yes :-D is that yes about the airbases or royalties?? 1What's "royalty" was the no comment or the yes an answer to my question? The king and queen ;-) Question: Why do the city governers (who are very nice people, by the way) keep producing food, even if the city cannot grow anymore (e.g. size 6 w/o aquaduct)? i think it's that useless thing the brits have ;) Royalty is Yin No comment to airbases even without playtest, but lets not start that one :) Gotta go lads, see ya later! understood. I definitely haven't seen them yet... cya They get fat royalty cheques though ;-) Kaeregaard: Soren quyestion Byeeeeeeeeeee That's a humorous myth, speed_bump here is living proof the game was beta tested Cya jeff: thanks. wheew, Firaxian PR team is under heavier fire than the pentagon breifing team Who is speed_bump? We liked him so much we hired him! Does it take really so many time to translate Civ 3 in French ?.... Our new QA Manager Awesome... I hope to one day work at Firaxis... It did this time ... lol eat your wheaties Maximus Once I get my degree in Computer Science and Engineering Make cool scenarios and we'll play them does firaxis gonna do some other game genres in the future??fps?rpg?car racing maybe?? car racing? go to cgn :p hehe Sid had a GT3 habit for a while How about an American Football Game? they did golf game I'm holding out for a zombie-killing shooter myself Who are you telling to go to CGN? and it was wierd lol @ dan vous répondez quand vous voulez, hein... chuis pas pressé du tout... c t juste pour parler, quoi... why are all the interviews you people give so the same? no one :shy: *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Speed_Bump aaaah! Foie Gras! delayed voice :) *** Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1 has joined #Apolyton one has to go to the chat to find something interesting pitk : CUT & PASTE ;) *** Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS was kicked by ACS_MarkG () 2«Script For MEGANET2« 3,0() *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1 yeah CUT and PASTE it is :) de toute façon chuis habitué... i can recite several responses by heart already I understand what you're saying Schee_FR, my French is rusty but not that rusty! ;) hey Mike no comment some Sid interviews on the web, I bet Dan Magaha writes them :) hey Not hardly lol @ pitk Dan's lucky he can write his own name what's your "most wanted" list of features for the next patch? lol@pitk If I did, there would be a lot more profanity lol @ mike No comment so its you Mike, sorry :)))))) dan, really? j/k No, I'm kidding of course So, when will you update the FAQ Dan? We have an extensive list. There are a number of fixes already made Talking about interviews, Joystick101.org is still waiting for the replies on those questions they send to Sid. What's the ETA? Dan is freaking hilarious... ROFL <[ND]Sith> Is the chat over now? My apologies if you're seeing this for the third time. Is resource distribution on randomly generated maps truly random or does the AI get an advantage with more resources closer to it's starting position at higher levels? no, it seemed reasonable. being a leader and visionary is tough work Air Naval combat Adjustments? Hopefully I'll get a chance to do that soon Gramphos ouaais c la fête, encore un split *** ACS_MarkG changes topic to 'Apolyton.net irc channel -- Civ3 Chat Now' i'm editor of school paper and i become angrier by the day I think not about the resources...you can randomly generate them in teh editor, independant of difficulty <[ND]Sith> Mark: Check your e-mail. I mailed you about Vel's mod soory to yell. my bad got it sith resources were great, whose idea is that? Jeff Briggs LOL Sirot: well I'm known for being shall we say "extroverted".. Dan - what has been the impact on corruption by fixing the effect of government buildings? hehe, same here *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Speed_Bump1 Dan has a regreatable abundance of personality praise him :) <[ND]Sith> Mark: Why don't u set the channel as moderated and get the people present to Private message their questions to the op's?. Stop the chaos....certainly does on Planetarion IRC q-will we get those little rounded buttons for the new unit commands? Yeah I'm taking wallflower training courses jeff, that was an interesting defintion did you go to law school? ;) ND Sith you are totaly unconstructive you know? :) <[ND]Sith> Guest: The 'fix' for government buildings relates to Buildings for specific goverments e.g. A PolitBuro for Comunism or a Senate for a republic. You can now make government specific buildings. Ok the boss is gone again. Wallflower training, I quess I missed a bit No comment question: why are there no civil wars (as in Civ2) in Civ3? Jeff has the Enron testifying thing down pat lol 5 minute warning for me...the rest of these apes will no doubt hang out Jeff studied under Ollie North... Speed_Bump...the Beta Tester gone new hire? Do the effects of a courthouse on corruption increase over time, or is there some other reason that I see the % corruption decrease in some cities over time? hopefully this will be posted at Yep about speed bump A==Apolyton I was a professional tester...;-) Hello. What happened? taking out fundamentalism because of the terrorism was totaly whimpy Lib, You've been voted off the island j/k lol Thanks, Shag! terrible job you did Speed_bump, why didnt you ask them to hire another one? :)) Funde was out before 9/11...plant disease was taken out post Lib: Alot of no comments on a lighter note, the firaxians who surf Apolyton's forums, are you ever lurking in the OT? is it me or does pollution always ends up being uncontrollable? could we add plant disease in''// admit it!! Rarely...get enough of that in general Senator, on advice of counsel, I cannot answer your question about shredding of any "documents" Planting diseaeses isnt civilised (neither is war for that matter but anyway) I check out the other games forum occasionally lol @ general forum OT is frequently more topical than general LOL lol @ pitk don LOL pitk: hey I was on your side about the water...;-) pitk, what's your ACS nickname? My threads on OT always get deleted Do you guys laugh at us? just joking you, you did good job, considering you was the only beta tester :)) MarkG, it's not you. Pollution is just a pita. The interface for it needs work. Some of you I'm paranoid siro, VetLegion lol @ jeff no, we're laughing with you. Really. badd PR jeff, bad PR.... ;) Where's Ming? Isn't he gonna lock this thing? Nobody, but nobody, enjoys cleaning up pollution. It just isn't fun. A % decrease like corruption would do the same job in a better interface. do the complaints ever make you feel bad? ok <[ND]Sith> Firaxis: Any plan to make permanent the increase in HP's that every successful Civ3 Mod uses? Standard:4, Vet:5, Elite:7 Pitk, he wasn't the only tester, just the only one we hired :) Do you ever swear at us? ... (get payed to plave Civ all way, hmmm, Physics is still a little better) Jon, I laugh to keep from crying some times.. you sound sharp witted (i hope it's the right expression) It for me guys....thanks for your help on the patch....cya *** Jeff_Morris_FIRAXIS1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) good night jeff bye bye jeff thanks for joining us Jeff have a good weekend 1bye <[ND]Sith> lol <[ND]Sith> Quick exit <[ND]Sith> ;) tight sleep ;) before I go - GREAT GAME - keep up the good work. <[ND]Sith> No Firaxis peops left? bye ^ Is the foreign advisor leader art still hard coded? wasabi Korn now for the REAL questions :)= Danm some of the comments are just harsh Yes yes yes...I have a question about pollutions...can you make it optional? I have always found it very annoying in Civ games... so, is it a tradition to find problems in patches hours after their release? :) Haven't had time to check. even when I agree that some of the things could use some work hey guys I LOVE CIV 3 !!!!!! (mostly) I'm excited about sharing Soren's comments with the other Apolytoners. hey korn hi korn Jon, yes, they are, but that's why we have the ignore list 3 Firaxians left hey korn Probably Gramphos, Mike would know better than I <[ND]Sith> Firaxis: Any intention to increase the HP of units? my gf forced me into lunch sorry i missed most of the chat lol lol, it's like a AA support group ha ha at korn Sith: probably not by default, no. "I'm siro and I'm a civoholic" - "hi siro" Mike?? hi siro Someone from Firaxis: can y'all work on making pollution optional in Civ3? Able to turn on or off? MikeB <[ND]Sith> Dan: Any reason? It is a small change yet all the Civ3 Mods use it.....? I am a civoholic too so what all did i miss in terms of new information? wait Yes, that was a call for him ;) It is addictive ;) too much of a good thing always is less so then previously though (I like playing versus, and I like Physics) does that mean we should quit? oh ok :D never Dan, aren't you glad now for all the suggestions we made? Look what a hit your patch is! <[ND]Sith> lol@Libertarian hehe I just want maybe a little less polution, or have the global warming effects slowed down lol I can't understand why they are listed in the pediaicons.txt, but not read from there. Dan, got a count for the downloads of the patch yet? Well, cya bye to firaxis Mark: Something weird just happened on the board. 1) It seems like all units in normal civ3 heal at the rate of 1 hp per turn when outside of a city. Is this true? http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42353 2) Do all ranks heal at the same rate? By this i mean would both a conscript and an elite unit regain the exact same amount of hit points if they both healed outside of a city (especially a city with a barracks) here is a good question: does the polutiom for global warming change based upon map size (other global modeling factors) Thanks for taking time to talk to us, Firaxians True no, Infogrames FTP has been doing most of the gruntwork and I have no clue how many people have downloaded it Yeah , Thanks LIB for all their hard work 3) If you change the hitpoints at what level does the healing rate change? 4) Is this change based entirely on the regular morale level or is it based on an average of all of the levels? Shag, check out that link! :) korn: no The board has flipped out! is the transcripts of this going to be posted??? html maddness I'm tryin Lib hold on http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42353 Gramphos: yes. Hard-coded art is the reason there are few add/delete buttons in the editor. je vais enlever le FR, c peut-être à cause de ça que personne me répond... (un froid) Pollution annoying, it's the only way the end game keeps a bit interesting...near the end everything is build so there's nothing left to do. The threat of global warming keeps things a bit interesting near the end, but only a tad. Dan, Mike what do you think about civ underwear? how about packaging it with game instead of, say, designers diary? Question: Will my current saves work after I upgrade to the new patch? I don't know... something like that may increase our ESRB rating... Kaeregaard: yes what is ESRB? :) Gramphos: That was a mistake. They were supposed to be in pediaicons.txt. someone played with < and > lib <[ND]Sith> Kaeregaard: YES What the ?????? hard coding BAD! Bad dog! Weird... Can you fix it, Mark? french fixed Dan: yes -- hardcoding BAD french ? MarkG: 218 downloads of patch from Firaxis.com lol, hard coding is bad Any chance of geting it changed in a later pach? fyi, the patch is not on ftp.infogames... why? agree with dan about hardcoding what, GuestJon_Miller ? Mark: do I need to download a new version of the Apolyton forums now? CapTVK, I don't mind the threat of global warming, I just with the interface were cleaner. Too many mouseclicks required... now that we all agree, how about releasing the source? Gramphos: not sure -- I'd like to though Civ underoos would be phenominal that's why you should release the AI code and have a parser for it ;) no you dont Dan ;) thebug, we're trying to figure that out ourselves I made my underoos with markers and duct tape put the AI code in the public domain - never! - it wouldnt be fuzzy anymore :D it's still on Firaxis.com though what bug, there's a bug? My words are backed by Fruit of the looms? When will be the french version released ? siro, yeah dont squish me though ROFLMAO french version is when you play the french Schee: Infogrames controls the localized version release schedule so I don't know... french version is in french bugs are useful parts of the ecology :love: what more do you want :)) mike, would it be possible to add in a button in the government section of the editor to set the number of citizens a military unit quells hmmm, apolyton has a story that says the editor is bad.. is this correct? they're good snak!!! :evilgrin: Infogrames sue people I want Mousquetaires instead of Musketeer pitk ! korn: yes that's possible -- I'll keep it in mind * thebug40 dips himself in chocolate Don't worry Gramphos I am constantly pestering Mike each and every day about things like that :D lol @ Mouskwuur, whatever :) for me? mike cant you guys get gramphos to help you on the editor? :) Sure, pitk, just send Infogrames a check for a couple hundred thousand bucks. you know, it's really sick since it has relation with something kinky in RL * JayPiJay thinks those money hunting publishers would hate the idea but if the AI is changable by players - that means longer shelf life I hate money Schee: akd InfoG What's up with these localized versions anyway? In the days of Civ1 translation barely existed. You learned the principles of the game by simply playing. That would be a Jeff Morris question unfortunately what Siro?? question, is apolyton patch have a working editor?! so firaxis wins <[ND]Sith> Firaxis: U should really work on creating an amazing editor. Games have always been improved by those who know most about them i.e. THe fans ;) I think that Soren did a very good job with the AI why would I send them a check? *confused* I am waiting for infogrames to take over the wolrd and then I m taking it to the hills Sith: we are jon, that part about buggy here dippin into chocolate ;) Well, they haven't sued me yet, thankfully. They sue copyright infringers. viva la liberdad! :P I would be glad to take it of your hands somerandomtool :) mike that would really help lol@dan They should sue infringers I wish i could get a Ceae & Desist by unlocking the basic multiplayer architecture Dan, I would watch your back if I was you <[ND]Sith> Mike: Good to know. Are you planning on making the game as editable as possible even releasing code to get at the AI routines? i really hope you have time to add it in Agreed, Shag. there is plenty of evidence that you were involved with firaxis property Multiplayer=big I think they've all done a hell of a job considering the hole mike another thing about the editor they were in lol Jay By the way, have you figured out yet what that means in British? Tool, so can I have yours I doubt we will release AI code like that. I don't think the AI is not really set up for that. Sith: mike *is* working on that editor, every day <[ND]Sith> Mike: A Shame :( is AI in adll? <[ND]Sith> Dan: I don't doubt it could you make it so that you could select both great wonder and small wonder attributes for any wonders Why is that, pitk? Cant you make an option to start the editor with no map in back? korn: what's that? <[ND]Sith> But I think you hit the nail on the head when u said 'work.' This is your job and u cease working on it when u finish. To a fan Civ is a passion. We spend the majority of our waking hours thinking about it. Give us the tools to make our dreams a reality :) if it is in a dll, then it is easy to release only the AI Gramphos: I probably could but what would be the point? what? I think just that Civ should have the AI updated for a few years (I would pay 10 dollars a year for that) That map kills my RAM when having both VB and MsDev runing at the same time. so that you could add a small wonder that gave each city a certain building Hey, is there anything y'all can do about fixing the air superiority routines? Right now, it's not even possible to dogfight, which sorta renders the American UU useless... pitk : hmm , scratches head :) or a great wonder that required a certain resource in its city radius I still want small wonders to give luxury/strategi resources Sith: mike *is* working on that editor, every day so why is he chating with us now??go back to work mike! :) Idea for Civ 4 customized AI components <[ND]Sith> lol MMX <[ND]Sith> :) And If I don't shrink the map to 16x16 I can't get to any complex tabs. They just disapper from the tablist when clicking on them Gramphos: Oh, that's probably not the map actually. It's probably the Rules editor. All thos controls eat up Windows resources.... MSDev and VB have the smae problem.... Mike, weren't there too many NOs in that sentance? no that means that the AI was better, it is was something esaily customizable then it would be crap AI wow my scout just died from disease in the jungle!!! this appears to be something new............... look, if AI is in a dll module, they can give us the interface AI uses and we can make own dll module of AI if it is spread all over, it is harder That's not new Daxx <[ND]Sith> The 1min turns on huge maps with 16 civs.......Is that due mainly to memory or processor constrictions? (I have 1Ghz 350+Mb RAM) get more ram! :p Well, I can just use it with 16x16 map. oh well i didnt need that socut anyways Have I missed the BIG chat!? Jungles are dangerous - pop losses and unit loses What did you expect with MFC? Sith: thats been the plan since day one, patience is all we ask In most cases I have to turn off VB to run the editor. Yeah, I'm sure you could take some from the ACS servers lol im runnning at good speed on a 5 year old computer Firaxis fellows: is there anything you can do about air superiority that would allow you to actively seek out fighter-fighter dogfights? I still think that is it was editable that would mean that the AI was to simple about the ram comment Korn I missed your original question there....can you type it again? Soren would be too constricted Oh thank god no... Do NOT trash Soren. exactly what pitk said <[ND]Sith> Dan: U have my patience and my money :) Support your title as faithfully as Derek Smart has the BattleCruiser series and I'll be happy :) No idea guest3 but it sounds like a lot of work for something that adds complexity but not much else Soren for president! noone trashes soren, I like his AI Of Firaxis? mike, like when you select great wonder, it greys out all of the small wonder abilities and vice versa, can you change it that this wouldn't happen, and that selecting wonder, or small wonder just determines how often you can build that wonder (one per gam=wonder, once per civ=small wonder) and some day in the next year or so i will know how to do dlls Sorenis awesome, the single biggest improvement Pitk, You could also take a look at the Freeciv AI, it can use some work. Meanwhile planning a client side AI. Cool stuff Of the world (are at least an abstracted version of it) is AI hello You're right Jon. He is a Stanford alum. many people want to make sun zu's a small wonder for example MS in Computer Science. but right now this isn't possible wow MOO2 at $9.94 is on the chips&bits top 10 :D Why are there only two zoom views, unlike Civ2? Beer, what he's saying is he wants to be able to use the Small Wonder abilities with regular wonders hi hagbart korn: I would like to make all the bldg/wonder/sm wonder abilities one big group but that's kind of low on my priorities right now. exactly dan :) lol@mark Plus, he's a decent guy. Sith: well forgive us if we don't attack coke machines LOL <[ND]Sith> Dan: :p <[ND]Sith> Dan: Or u're fans. I live in fear of Derek when I go over to the BattleCruiser site :) I know about it CapTVK, freeciv is great project Question: will you make it possible to make flat maps in a future patch? dan, who did you call "beer"? ;) Mike Sirotnikov: me Shhhhhhh!!!, don't mention "DS" if you say his name 3 times he'll pop up from nowhere!!! eeeek :o <[ND]Sith> lads I'm off why? hagbart: perhaps. I'm not sure yet oh ok, well i hope it happens :) <[ND]Sith> L8erz what a nickname! * [ND]Sith waves hehe Maybe he called for beer. Send him some dan, what's your nickname? :) bye sorry if this is a repeat, but is there a fix for civ3 not starting up after installing v1.17f? Sith: I couldn't resist, there aren't enough urban legends about game developers and that one is too funny to ignore What means "monkey sweats on a tuesday"? (ndsith) <[ND]Sith> /quit The man who follows the crowd will usually get no further <[ND]Sith> than the crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to find <[ND]Sith> himself in places no one has ever been. mike, can you share what stuff is in the editor right now but didnt make it into the patch? I don't think we can repeat Dan's nickname good question Rob333 cu sith later sith bye i really hope so bye lol this is too confusing... i'm just gonna wait for the Apolyton folks to post their chat log... MarkG: Well, some of it actually made it into the patch because of the version issue... speed bump are you still there? ok, I wanted to ask the whole team this, but only you two are here or hi ?) Here Sirot: I have several nicknames, none of which are suitable for genteel conversation what is your job at firaxis? hehe plantationnement i didn't ask what your wife calls you, but what mike calls you ;) ne'er mind :) There were several problems with placing rivers (both bugs and interface hassles) that have been cleaned up and fixed. Barry is the new QA Manager *angelic* do you really think there will be civ4 in the after 4 years? I am askink would you _like_ to do it, not "if there is demand, we deliver" thing Dan, Yup I guess he's an urban legend. In his own mind that is (and providing plenty of enjoyment for those on usenet;) so did Jeff get a promotion then? Would it be possible to make more buildings of the type "replaces all buildings with this flag set", dan did yes, he's now a Producer by changing it to a number that you could enter (Replaces all buildings with the same number, -1=N/A) mike, like? oh Is their any focus in future patches on AI personality and memory, and was this improved in this patch River building is difficult :) nice job hehe so now barry is now the one we complain to about bugs? lol I like the undo ability in the editor, thanks Capturing cities of size 1- does it still disband the city when captured in 1.17f? be gentle, korn! :D It goes with the territory hell yea grampos, really great idea! if the city is size 1 and has no culture at all, yes So it is dependent on culture? Gramphos: That's a good idea that's already on my list.... but there are some things with a higher priority... like starting locations and whatnot. culture and size Ok, thanx! It might as well be a barbarian hut with no cultcha it's supposed to prevent you from following AI settlers around and nabbing free cities korn: soon you can blame the beta testers... hehe cool mike, why is the whole city/unit placement issue so difficult? good question dan, you just have me a strategy idea vgq :d oh dear I hope there's no three letter acronym exploit named after me or anything It's not so much that it's difficult.... First I had to get the rules in the editor in order for placement options to work. Now that the rules are in there and basic map-making is done I have started on placing units and cities... if i get to be a beta tester, i'll wake up every morning look in the mirror and go :it's all your fault this bug made it in the game ;) Is there going to be any focus on super personality in the AI's with future patches Mike r Dan r Speedy: How many beta testers are there at the moment - any plans to add in some from outside USA ? DMS = Dan Magha Sombrero ...the biggest problem is interfacing it and dealing with the concept of a player. What? The 1.17 patch gets top points from me! Dan: I think it's a four letter word ;-) right on Barry dms : doggedly murdering settlers korn: that's the spirit! hey vel hey vel! :) Hey guys! bug, lol, excellent sounds good mike start a thread :D hello Can someone plz answer my question, I want to play my civ3! After the new patch, the game won't start up! hi hey JPJ: Not sure how many are slated to be in the beta group to be honest, unfortunately looks like legal issues will preclude us from using non US applicants though :( and there is being able to money, goverment type, and all sorts of stuff for each civ.... Mike, did the savegame with sinking the galley crashes game work? aww Guest112: where does it lock? ah well I wished I had the time to apply for the BETA group Yes SirRalph, I found and fixed the crash in future versions. Believe me I'm bummed too JPJ, I had asked several folks in hopes we could get them in, and it's just not in the cards To Guest 112, I would try a clean install and patch sirv, start one for me, i dont havent signed up yet, just give me an honorable mention :P sdffdfghghjkjkl;l;' I get the splash screen, then nothing else happens. Your save also helped me find a saved game incompatibility issue that cropped up after 1.17.... 'oops do a big public beta like blizzard is doing.... barry, i have a question about changing colors in the editor, why do many of the colors you can select crash the game? Guys it's been a hard day of work and I gotta go. Cya round mmx, there is a lot of politics involved Guest112: you need to fix the refresh rate probably cu cooper later Shag Cya A ok, thanks korn: There's a way to fix that. ic Add Refresh=60 to the civilization3.ini that's all i need to do to fix it? thanks :) cool The industrious Civ 3 players, NOT korn: no I'll tell you -- hang on oh ok colors crashed me too poat that on apolyton Ahhh...so thats why my screen is going nuts thx Speedy Dan how many people are you taking for the beta team? JPJ: np Mark: that's Jeff's project not sure how many to be honest Guset1l2: korn: you need to copy some pcxs to mae it work the beta team still testing? is it testing MP? so if I am in maryland, can I stop by for a tour? which ones? There is a new beta team it's just getting started actually Iron i tried downloading the pcx from your thread I want the French to have roleplaying like personality in next patch please Art\units\Palettes\ but it wasn't available It's not like a beer factory Jon, we don't have any samples or anything :) it crashed every time i renamed it the one otp should be copied to make up to otp31 Good one Dan where do i copy them to? pity, breweries are fun to tour a cra*. editing the palette is not y idea of fun So, is there gonna be MP some time in the future? are u taking only hardcore civ fans? no samples? to thte beta team korn: In Art\Units\Palettes there need to be otp00-otp31.pcx. Some are missing I was hoping for the newest Civ build mmx, I would hope we'd get a wide cross-section of people I bought the game (LE) twice... The problem is fixed now but someone forgot to take out some code.... me too twice? Just copy opt00.pcx to opt17.pcx and to opt18.pcx, and so on hardcore civ fans going crazy some times :) yah I posted the info somewhere but I can't find the link now (ordered one, then went out and bought it the day it game out) yeah they sure are hardcore those guys so right now they go up to 16 they are forgetting the fun factor Indeed mmx, but there are a LOT of people playing this game, we try to keep in mind the audience I think it was at Civfanatics' dealing with numbers and stuff.. i just copy and rename either 01 or 00 up to 31 Anything interesting not documented in the Readme?? you just need pcx named correctly up to 31, open one in a editor and save as (fastest) It's been said that the original release was insufficiently playtested esp. in the modern era. Is the new patch a reflection of more playtesting or are more of the modern era changes due to feedback? ok thanks for the help what about a minimap in the editor? korn: It will be fixed in later versions of the editor. all civ games have had end-game issues... nick new-name can't wait mike :) hagbart: A good idea (obviously). see, he mentions several versions of the editor ;) true that, mark i actually tested and found out which ones work yah, I think that you need to hire someone to do the extra stuff for you at that point One thing to bear in mind is that we also have a list of stuff we want to add to the game that we just weren't able to get done, a lot of times patch stuff is that kind of thing. A lot of it is fan suggestions, some of it is bugs we didn't catch. It's a lot of things combined. Well, didn't one of them end up in the patch? ;) (end game) but it took me many crashes to do that :) ty Good to hear Dan korn: The first 16 work... I'm always bugging Mike to put something into the editor for me, for example >:) Yes he is. I may have missed the answer, but what about muliple zoom views? it would be cool to see that wish list y'all have ALL the time what do you mean you have things to want to add? you should only do the things we want! :D It would be too big to print hahaha When are you going to put in a scenerio creator? Yes, v1.17 of the editor. It had one extra field for units n the BICs, but not in the editor. You're a funny guy Markos! maube Firaxis can have end game players who you can send your turn to with some more macrolevel instructions Multiple zoom views in the editor is less likely than a minimap but not outside the realm of possibility... what about a single zoom level? The extra field is used internally. It's actually a substantial change -- hence the increased version jump Dan when are you going to try one of the tournament games? ;) Multiple zoom views would be nice in the gae too well, just a zoom out like the game has Thnaks Mike, but I meant multiple zooms in the regular interface... game too Mark: I'm bad at Civ anyway, I'd just get owned :) Once again -- not ouside the realm of possibility but it's not high on our list. I didn't manage to get it to anything but -1 D M S thread started in Civ 3 : strategy LOL Dan...c'mon now...you know you guys play lossa civ at work! ;) Dan, exactly ;) It would have been nice if helicopters could also pick-up units, as well as airdrop.. but just wishing.. That doesn't mean I'm any good, though :D siro, ha ha vel, and get with it! Yeah. None of the units used the field at that point. They have lots of different values in my version :) ditto copters *G* Read my strat threads... Velo: a little...I logged over 1500 hours ;-) bye all 12I just want to know when you will include a scenerio creator in a patch or sell it (go to sleep) are we able to demand resources as a requirement for peace in the new patch? If I have wheat, shouldn't I be able to brew beer?? And would it increase happiness or decrease productivity? WhoooHooo Speedy! Got me beat by a country mile...so far at least....;) if you watch the active turns close enough you can Kilroy LOL http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?threadid=42440 Nice post Sirot Rpodos: probably both Rpodos: both...just like tje Internet no, I mean ask for resources from a civ I'm at war with, as a requirement for peace <_john> pwer thanks A question concerning patch compatibility: Our German localization will be released in March. If I buy it, will the future patches be compatible? i didn't know you cared that much :love: ok, i copied the otp files up to 31, but the game still won't start. strategy forum went down? Somes times its good to live only 2 minutes from work Guestll, that was for korn, not for you. hey coop Guest112: try the refresh rate thing first. It's the easiest fix I know for that sometimes its good to own work ;) ok mike so, besides starting locations what are some other high priority editor changes? so, no I take it? How do you expect the fans to create things for the game when you give us crap to work off of. example. . . no zooms in mapeditor well my power just went out UPS is beeping, gotta shut down grrr *** Dan_Magaha_SOMBRERO has left #apolyton bye Dan in a jungle? lol hmmm, I gotta go eat (and wacth Simpsons) 19382. Priorities. Playability first. Everyone plays. Not everone mods I agree with nye mike, request: huts or no huts option in the map creation screen playing gets boring when you can't create new things It's only 00:00, after all korn: placing units and cities, minimap, configuring players, more user friendliness, and exposing a lot more parts of the game in the rules. Never boring, I still play civnet sometimes Dan overloaded the power net? mike the more parts of the rules you expose the better :) can we demand resources from a civ we're at war with as a requisite for a peace treaty? Speed_Bump: I added Refresh=60, still no go. :( agreed, but your chatting with the guy improving that Helen Hunt is pretty. In a way. sometimes, Acooper, when you've got nothing else to do How about ability to edit the chance of units sucessfully retreat? korn: I agree. I jsut have to get the rest of the programmers to agree so they can stop hard-coding all the little rules ;) ooo goodone gramphos er good one Guest112: Does the splashscreen show or not? mike how about the ability to set which terrain wheeled units can move over :) Gramphos: yes korn: Good idea -- I hadn't thought of that are there any factors that affect the randomness of retreat? splashscreen shows up, i see a light check the cd, then nothing. ctrl-alt-del shows no civ3 running. bug: I don' tthink so. I think it's just 50/50 -- well there is an experience level bonus i set settlers to wheeled and tried to make tundra off limits, but no dice lol is it possible to add bombard sink ship flag per unit? And terrain cities can be founded in Mike, will future patches be compatible with localized versions of the game? Just thinking if I buy the German version in March or not... k will the chat be posted on apolyton later? How does experience affect retreat? is it possible to add AA value as option for units? notyoueither: probably When is the multiplayer gold edition for civIII coming?????? LOL mike i'm not sure if this is an editor bug or not, but no matter how many builds you select as add +1 to armies, the size of an army will only increase one time I'll send you beer. Lots of it. SirRalph: not sure -- the code will be compatible but if we change text it won't be localized unless it goes through Infogrames and I don't know how that whole system works... How about irrigating hills? How about converting grassland to hills? thanks, I see... well, I better stick with the US version Rpodos: experience levels give a flat bonus to reteat when will there be an update to the editor?, again hehe *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +v Soren_Johnson_Firaxis No teraforming please hi, you've got me for a few minutes... Yeah - terrforming would add a lot of end-game interest hi again soren, how was the meeting? hey soren fine we are planning to take over the world mike, are you willing/able to tell us what that bonus is for retreats oops, did I say that out loud? Soren: can we demand resources for a civ we're at war with as a requisite for peace? I nominated you for president What size world? 4When will MULTIPLAYER come out how many programmers are on civ3 right now? korn: That is probably technically not a bug -- we don't check for cumulative abilities MarkG: 3.5 to guest, thats a secret mike, oh ok Will theyre be a Centralized server when Multiplayer does come out ? bug: I don't know the bonuses off the top of my head. mike, inlduing you who work on that silly editor thing? :) will multiplayer come out? Who works with the advisor/trade interface? MarkG: just me kilroy: you can only demand resources if renogiating peace, not trying to end a war What does "monkey sweats on a tuesday" mean? hagbart, eventually k, thanks ok can u add a function to the editor that will make coffee for me? will there ever be a moddable AI for scenarios? m_m_x: beer maybe, coffee no. Rob333: What? Gramphos, great issue... when can we get a unified view of all Civs trading status?? because the route goes through "enemy" territory, technically... [img]sad_military_advisor.jpg[/img] thanks i think "eventually" is a better response than "no comment". Dan send a note to Jeff about this :) so, have people been able to tech whore with the new patch? What does "monkey sweats on a tuesday" mean? I saw it's a string in the .EXE soren or mike why isn't there a box for build military buildings often in the editor, or does one of the other abilities cover this? explore possibly? question, would it be possible to make a shield carying "caravan" so you can bring shields somewhere? military builds would be covered under offensive/defensive units _________+ <======+ "military buildings" Does somenone know how to translate "Spearman" in french ? tech whore? soren, must have a "turn off pollution" option in the begining of the game(well i need one anyway) Is it possible to make the game go directly to an active deal if you click on a resource you are trading in the trade advisor? mark: you should be able to do that through the editor... (not that that is the best solution) polution shouldn't be a biggy now with worker stacks. is it? 4You need to implement more editors to the game for unit creation (cause it's so time consuming to create units only Darksheer really has been good it this so far) gramphos: that's a good idea will we get the option to trade/sell units? the AI seems to handle tech trading better now so as long as the AI has build off/def units its builds lots of buildings with the militaristic attribute selected? cool Schee: Lanciers guest19382, no colors please korn: yes hehe mike Thanks, Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1 soren & mike : any news on the scenario front? -events, scripting and so on? and "Swordsman" ?... "Epéiste" ? Soren - how much is the AI still changing? hardjoy, city/unit placement is on the top of the list French lesson? soren, cool :) shut up with the 00:00 thing dont know about events and scripting... Schee: Oui mark : ok Ok have many people had trouble running with the new patch? Any plans for a moddable AI at all, ever? Schee is just as annoying as your editors am I in? Not me. Works great. Schee, are you making a French localization? Don't you know that Infogrames will sue your *ss off? ;) how have people been dealing with pop rushing/drafting with the new patch? dont think so guest112.... why am i special then! Guest112: It sounds like you are missing files or that it is improperly installed. soren: not doing it? 40 turns is a long time in CIV I turned it back to 20 turns Wombat: doubtful. 40 is very long Im gonna i haven't had a chance to download 1.17f yet i see... the thing is, many times, it's not hard to make your citizens happy and pop rush if your city is capped at 6... but it seems like 40 turns would really hurt communism i dont have civ3 installed yet * thebug40 ducks those who have - is it worth it? Why don't we have wonder movies. I really loved those and does it mean i lose the use of any mods i have downloaded? soren: good point. too early yet for good feedback artists cost money? Also, drafting has gotten still less attractive korn: that is possible. we are watching it closely. this was clearly the biggest change with the patch. asher274 - YES! I modded to 100 for some games and I like it. It moved the games back in the modern age to make me go all the way to 2050 hmmm, thanks Mike. acemo yes to what point its worth it cool money? you should have plenty your programmers cut all the corners soren when you pop rush does the food box get set back to zero? corners? korn: i don't think so should it? yea Yes and cut it back down to 20 turns i still dont understand pop rush nye smacks 19382 with a trout Any chance of a comprehensive update to the PDF documentation file to make it synch up with the patch changes? why is that? that would have ended the size 6 exploit you put the game out way to soon now that a public beta team is coming, will updates happen faster? you should have made it better did our size 6 fix not work? i've heard it does like i said i haven't had a chance to dowload 1.17f then why should we empty the food box after pop rushing? I just think it would be MORE of a penalty. Soren: Do civs become annoyed if you abort negotiations? korn: i see... so i haven't got to test it out personally glad we know it 19382 good question lib damn good question when I try to start the newest editor, i get this message: Runtime Error! Program: ...lai\infogrames interactive\civilization III\civ3edit.exe abnormal program terminatin Soren: how much better do you think the AI can be? right now, I am assuming pop rushing might have been weakened too much instead of too little, but only time will tell. but if the food box is empty then it would kill the instant growth from the food box size changing Lib: no I think I have found how to generate barbarian civs and cities in 1.17f Starmouse: how? pray tell mouse I just want CivIII Multiplayer Gold Edition anyone want to direct me to an explanation of this pop rush, pop 6 exploit ? I want scenarios korn: the fix was to half the food before the city grows... 19382, you'll have it. eventually asher, same response ;) how to make barb civs - crate a new world with less than maximum number of civs, abandon that game, use quick start. I seem to get barb civs every time. use multi cheat to check the map after 3950 bc ok acemo: there is no limit. Starmouse: post this on 'Poly What's "quick start"? What about aborting trade negotiations? Does the other civ get "Annoyed"? it's already posted on apolyton soren: do you know what the problem is? why can't I start the editor? its the button you never push in the civ start screan You da mouse! Any sense of the barb civ's attitude? lol @ acooper Rob: No. Nikolai: Your editor probably has one r another corrupt bug. Get the ziped download I got a peace treaty with a barb civ :) I did not understand one item in the readme. It made reference to a 10 second delay in path choosing. Am I to understand that I will save 10 secs per turn or 10 secs per turn per peice? soren or mike is there any way to make the submarine ability (aka invisable) count toward ground units? ok rob333: generally speaking, the way you conduct your negotiations does not have a great affect on the AI's attitude.... thanks 3editor question : any news about scripting? -and is there a way to disable leader pictures etc for scenarios? :) korn: does the flag not work for ground units? Thanks. Then shopping around for the best "deal" doesn't hurt. http://apolyton.net/civ3/files/patches/Civ3Edit.zip scripting? *watches pig fly past* korn: I don't know. I think it should. Have you tried it? i've tested it but it doesn't seem to work it says "Submarine" but it means "Invisible" wombat, get back to ctp2 :p lol i set warriors with this but i could still see them hmmm... we'll have to take a look. its more fun here Events: maybe. Scripting: No. I've answered this before. I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs. Good info Soren, thanks Request for the hopper: Queue messages that fly by into a list and optionalize Domestic Nag you mean, you could see the enemy warriors? yes That's not to say there won't be a way to script events -- just not a scripting language power to create bugs? sounds like a curse spell in harry potter :) i like the domestic messages The script engine in the like of RR Tycoon 2 was nice though Mike: or to fix them, add concepts, ideas, game features... check out the CtP2 mods for some examples no-ones made bugs yet mmmhairy pot events i mean Hag: Then you would select "Yes" i'll check it out How high up the military chain can barbs go? (both as a civ and from huts) mike : thanx, but how about the "starcraft" inspired scenario tools you talked about in previous chats? But there's no reason the same level of power couldn't be given without a scripting language barbs stop at horsemen... but you can change that via the editor rpodos: horsemen ok, mike - then deliver :) barbs seem to run like any other civ, I saw one make a settler hardjoy: That would be more along the lines of what I'm thinking. never seen a barb civ rpodos: yes, I noticed that all units are available to barbs now, according to the editor Here's what you need to do very soon. 1. Multiplayer 2. Zooms for mapeditor 3. Scenerio creator 4. More units and a unit creator thats easy to create animations Mike: do it then. You haven't. If you think you can, I'll be exstatic. I think thats nads. is that all they need to do? Why are the AI civs so nasty all the time? They talk down to you even if you're about to crush them. we complain about a lack of a tool. if you think you can do better with out a language - gi ahead They need serious attitude adjustment Mike. Can editor evolution be influenced by gifts of beer? all the better reason to stop on them rob go ahead didn't work... I get the same message still... *stomp notyoueither: no comment ;) soren i'm testing it right now if you want to change the attitude of the barb civs, edit diplomacy.txt Mike. It's on it's way ;) 19382; We've heard you, shhhh Waypoints would be nice. yes, diplomacy.txt can let you change how dialog works in many ways. *NOTE* The editor's a good start. Its all that could have been expected from a perfectly normal sequel to civ2 hehe.... could be fun having a Monty Python-themed diplomacy.txt - "I fart in your general direction" just be warned... it took our writer about 3-4 months to write it LOL LOL @ the mouse are there any color blind players that have used that option -Im just wondering cuz it doesnt seem to help me much lol@starmouse of course, if you take advantage of the tags, it doesn't need to be nearly so long 3lol. theres a lot of text editing to do for expanded scens LOL... I think that answers the french version question ;) hmmmm... I get the same message from all my scenarios... but I have the right patch, as far as I know... I'm leaving you don't give any answers just "No comment" or give us the run around siro, you got your first comment in the forums so will a mod I downloaded yesterday work with the patch? and if not will it work if I download the correct editor? bon voyage g'bye 19382 soren yes Bye, Not. hmmm this time it appears to work :) thanks for the update asher: if I should look at my own game; no how large is the diplomatic penalty for going to war with a civ soon after you sign a treaty with them, provided the treaty didn't have any trades or gifts or cities or anything else associated with it? Not Not Soren: tech question: Did you use A* for your path-finding algo? Oh, sorry. i would expect it to work because it's not linked to naval units at all Asher: As long as it wasn't created with the bad editor from yesterday's initiali patch you shouldn't have any problems.In general BIC files are backwards- and forwards-compatible (until version 3.00 anyway) i don't know why i could see them before maybe you had a "see subs" unit? rob: yes thanx Mike sweet i don't think so does soren or anyone know what's wrong with my editor? dude. what's mine say? hey asher someone asked this question yesterday and I was very curious about it...One 1.17 is installed, can you remove the 1.16 patch? not that again libertarian sweet! lol dude! hey Sirotnikov dude ? whatcha talkin bout ? Nikolai: I'm not sure what's wrong with your editor. I haven't seen that problem before. Have you tried tech support? dude, where's my car? Sorn. Is the AI military tactics a work in progress? Is it going to get better based on how we brag we beat it? A* is good, but it can be slow on the large maps... basically, all of the long pauses between turns result from the pathfinder (assuming you have animations turned off...) no I haven't also soren did u get my post about what happens to armies? i still claim you simply don't get my arguement in the OT ;) and the pathfinder takes a long time when it has more tiles to search through, so it is map size which is causing the slowdown (NOT number of civs) perhaps we should MP over it one day did you dumb down the A* for the sea units Soren ? one day... korn: yes, thank you. I have already fixed it. Hi civers I learned about A* a few years ago. It blew me away when I realized how elegant it is. I can see how it consumes lots of proc. cycles. Good job, tho. mayb eI should try to restart my computer... it's just windows you know;) I'm curious ... if the newer BIC file after 3.00 isn't compatible with older ones, what changes are there in the format? Nikolai: That's true.... ok cool :) did it make it into 1.17? or will we have to wait for the next patch? large map = slow map, check. Does the turn speed also depend on how much of the map is revealed? starmouse: Version 3.00 is still backwards-compatible (i.e., the editor can load older BIC files) but it's not forwards-compatible. The 1.17 game will not recognize v3.00 BIC files (hence the error message). okay in previous civ games (including SMAC), the pathfinding was more heuristic, which is faster but not complete. Which is why it screwed up from time to time. We felt that computer were finally fast enough to handle pure pathfinding. I hope we were right. :) uhhhh i dunno bout that soren soren is zoc related to good pathfinding? i dont like to stress the puter anyway :) I find the game painstakingly slow as it progresses I found it strange tho how a standard map was fast even in the modern era but a large map would have 3-minute waits at end of turn What hardware is most related (i.e., upgrades) to the pathfinding delay? good question ram i bet a 3 min wait? Ha! that's fast! I had a 10 minute wait. Uphill, both ways! Just wanted to say thanks to the Firaxis guys... nice to have some access to the programmers. :-) CPU ? we were tempted to limit map size depending on memory (the most improtant factor), but we didn't like restricting people. Still, it's a pseudo-restraint anyway, so perhaps we should have been more harsh. yes thanks Marla's map in the modern era.... ram is most important... then CPU. Thanks All in all i like the code - its faster than PBEMs anyway lol ..whines....but i like da big map Recommended RAM? 1Will Firaxis ever release new units? especially CPU's with a good cache. I pity those trying to use the old celerons (of course, they are below our spec anyway) i like standard maps good q, king of cam no comment ? lol Firaxis-can the 1.16 patch be removed after 1.17 is installed? Soren- I am glad that map size wasn't restrained. Perhaps people just aren't aware (don't GET it) that huge-mongous maps may cause serious slowdowns. you just have to eat lots of bananas I play on 256x256 maps- and am happy. one prob with AI - attacks your peicemeal, doesn't take advantage of roads WARNING - Big Map equals Slow Game yeah yeah, I remember reading a post from a guy furious about game speed... turns out he was running a 256x256 map on a below spec machine. I was at a loss for words. civ question : does the AI expand less frantically with the new patch? I am curious - do the programmers play or they just take joy from writing code day and nightly soren is zoc related to good pathfinding? mark: that was more of a problem with previous civ games... And does the AI not waste time on tundra (without resources)? Asher: All of the above + drink beer even the smallest islands seems to get colonized long before the age of colonialism :D Hi guys! what did I miss? what did I miss? =) mmm... beer... I guess they didn't like my question :( ...... ahhh beer I'm also wondering about the starting positions that are chosen for the civs. Sometimes they are far from optimum - desert, tiny islands, hills in the middle of mountain ranges. Can we check the quality of a starting position so all the civs get decent ones? iow, we saved ourselves some time with the simpler ZOC's in the read me it says tha "Fixed bug involving explorers and rail movement" does this mean that having "treat all terrain as roads" doesn't stop units from using railroads now? i would like to re-ask king of camelot's question, although i'd understand if it's unanswerable. what sort of follow up releases would y'all like to give us? new units, scenarios, new civs? Great Job with the patch. I do have a request for the next one. Could you include something that will allow me to play for hours on end without upsetting my wife? :) with beer you dont have to worry about game speed cuz you cant keep up Zealot: They gave us all the detail on the next patch. bring on da big map Cofffeee korn: i believe so good thx Libertarian Ironinkinit: we can't really comment on what will be in future releases. Sometimes I don't even know... soren, yes, so i suppose that the different zoc model helped things? beer turns me from a bean-counter into a Deity right o 3so, how about it? -why does the AI expand like a madman? Mike: But you could comment about what you're considering, no? Lib: Yes and I already have.... <--- thinks they should add a "Viagra" tech to the tree... to help increase Civ happiness in Modern Era... mark: that's right. When i play civ2 or smac now, the thing which stands out the most to me is how annoying the old ZOC rules are. I find that it makes the game unplayable (as well as inscrutable for a newbie) Lib: I'm sure anything you suggest is always considered. Mike: Thanks. Unified trading interface, PLEASE. & Brewery should be added as a city improvement too :) viagra would be like the cloning vats for civIII duhh: Yes, that's correct. :) beer-filled public swimming pools so, have people been trying deity with the new patch? Is that a threat? Not yet, Soren. Lib: You're always right, except when I am. My list of things to add to the editor is 10 pages long and I added a few things to it during this chat.... im not that good soren :( 5I'm not that masocistic... Libertarians have a hightened sence of self. Unlike the reast of us ;) i worked very hard to encourage the ai to upgrade better, so i am curious how effective they are now one other question about the readme "Fixed bug which caused some government buildings not to function correctly" how do government specific buildings work now with regards to upkeep mike, re editor - is a minimap on that list? 3mike : how about publishing those 10 pages ;) Shag: Love and kisses. Still going? starmouse: yes Mike, people like me really like to play scenarios! I'm counting on you! :-) hardjoy: not a chance ;) cool ;) NotYou: Oh, I'm just like the reast of you. Hardjoy? Nice name :-D Zealot: and I like making scenarios... Soren: I'll try Deity next week and report on Apolyton. :-) we need to start a protest for more programming power on the editor :D korn: i believe that if you are not of that government type, the game acts as if that building doesn't exist, so I don't think you have to pay maintenance. Gud. Thean yu cane spel fur us Soren, great point about the AI updgrading, I'm surprised no one has mentioned it here. ok good :) MarkG: No way! They'd just mess it up ;) Does civ III use the 'DEAD' slot in the animations ini? From what I've seen it looks like it just repeats the last frames of the death flc. I agree with Markos provost : thx :) Soren. Are the AI military tactics a work in progress? Will it improve based on us bragging about how we beat it? (Repeated) Mike, make it complicated enough and by the time people know how to use it they wont mess it up. IT sounds kinda rude :-D ai is always a work in progress i think Hustler should be a small wonder yikes or microsoft ;) hey, size doesn't matter with this patch, the ai should be less likely to chase after workers, which should be an improvement soren i have a question about the units, why isn't there an offensive infantry unit between longbowmen and marines? WOO HOO!!!!! Soren. Operational tactics? soren - ai has been a work in progress for forty years, LOL King_of_Camelot: I don't think so. We used to have separate 1-frame animations until we decided that was a giant waste of memory Are any of the leaders gay? microsoft is world domination matter err.. wonder korn - very good question ... don't ask, don't tell i was just wondering if that hurt the AI any No leaders seem happy with me. Wasn't Alexander the Great supposed to be gay? Soren, how about the AI making futile invasions? I would like to see the swordsman go somewhere on the military ladder Microsoft is a government, not a wonder... korn: do you mean from the ai's perspective or the human's perspective? Well, Joan... I mean, c'mon. lol@godking PH. He looks it in the game soren: from the ai's perspective Catherine the Great was into bestiality... asher - me too ... in m y custom mod, I have swordsmen and longbowmen upgrade to marine C the G was a beast Catherine died under a horse PH: *alledgedly* doh actually, mike and I have whipped up a solution to that, but i'm afraid it didn't make the 1.17 patch not true Mike! How can you say such thing? How many scenarios have I messed up?!? NONE! Wanna know why? I didn't make any! *grin* A solution to what? sorry for the troll =D catherina was supposedly into many fetishes :D can you tell us what that solution was soren? Zealot: I was referring to the comment about adding additional programmers to the editor. :) iow, the AI will now know to use riflemen (or infantry) as an offensive unit if no better pure offensive units are available ah, I thought MArk was asking more programing power to the mod makers Apparently Catherine was a very hard woman to satisfy. She looks more like Nora Batty in Civ3 than a man (and horse) eater :-D How does Civ III use the disorder flc? I noticed in the ini the 'ATTACKA' slot was used....interesting. and the romans will start defending their cities with legions... that type of thing iow? ok good :) korn: It's also the reason BIC file version increased to 3.00.... you might even see some offensive musketeers in other words, i thin Excellent. ah i see :) maybe it was my bad, since I should related to scripting, not programming great news :) in other words... is that obscure? oooow sounds good soren offensive musketteers i wont tell soren: just to me i suppose in my games, the ai alsways seem to be using archers as defensive units ... "you my sir, suck, and i say it as a musketteer" Hey lads, I am impressed in the civ3mod.bic file the workaround for not being able to upgrade special units :-D Any changes regarding colonies? ... even before 1.17f mike: here is another editor request, can u add in a carry cruise missiles only flag? And Mike. Able to land on carrier flag? starmouse: hardly, they were just built in the attacked city to ambush the attackers korn you use cruise missles? isn't that a game flag, rather than editor flag? Please answer quick...I gotta go real soon provost: well, you have to thank whoever posted that solution on Apolyton. I feel dumb that I didn't think of it earlier. (of course, it did require some code work, like in the Civilopedia) More beer 3I asked before, I'll ask again : why does the AI expand like a madman, instead of relying on colonies and protecting their territory? I never saw it on Poly, but I was playing with the mod file last night and I was quite impressed, a real neat bit of problemsolving...makes perfect sense too. King_of_Camelot: I'm not sure about the disorder flcs -- I didn't program the animations. it seems no real colonial situation comes up cities are much more permanent than colonies, so they are a better general solution right now you can edit cruise missiles so that Aegis cruisers and submarines can carry them, but only submarines can carry tactical nukes, by setting cruise missiles as foot soldiers, but this would be a simpler way of doing it I've seen lots of AI colonies. I think the AI expands quickly to counter the ICS strategy. It is too easy to cover half the map without the AI doing anything much otherwise soren : ok, but doesn't itt spoil the colony concept a bit? they never get used asher, yea cruise missiles can kill units, so i think they are ok iv seen ai colonies but only when its near my territory Ok thanks anyways....bye! Have you guys (Firaxis) though about allowing users a mechanism to write their own AI? well, colonies are special case solutions when you don't want to waste a city in really bad terrain. They are much more useful on BIG maps Colonies would be used more (1)if they weren't assimilated by an enemy and (2) they could connect directly via sea route (ie, colony on another island) they already said no but they haven't denied scripting ... yet ;) be careful or civ IV will be just bare bones and leave the game up to us Beard: There IS one. It's called C++ asher, that would mean an excellent game Yes, but you need a library to interface with. asher. that would be great as a beta soren, here is a question about hidden nationality...will the AI capture or burn your cities with hidden nationality units if it is your ally? while the programming work is often too hard for us fans soren : thx, but big maps are slow ;) life is not easy, I guess beard: that was beyond the scope of our resources 5And here I was trying to write my own AI in BASIC any chance we can get privateers to capture ships ? the ideas and standards that we invent are great mike here is another request i use assembler and fortran True, I suppose in the middle of a vast mountain range that could take 1000s of years to reach 5Fortran... with punch cards... its a slow turn based system I understand that the AI needs its own ICS strategy, but some of the city placements just don't nake sense... like in the middle of my first 4-5 cities. copy con: civ4.exe colonies were added simply to answer the "what if I don't want to build a city to get a resource" question. lol could u add in an all nationalities/U.N. flag? so that attacking a unit with this flag would be the same as attacking all of the civs either in the game or on the U.N. concil <_john> jpat@vergina:~> ps -auxww|grep http|wc -l <_john> 122 <_john> oups sorry Nice one korn riiiiiiiight korn : interesting idea korn: interesting idea. don't mpp's sort of do that? Lovit kinr kind of but this is different korn nice idea korn Not really, only if every one is in the right combo of MPPs. if you had the un you could build U.N. peacekeeprs with this flag who would control the un troops? 5<--- thinks there should be a "weed" luxury resource... can only trade if you have espionage... everything is a balance. there are literally 1,000+ great ideas that could have gone into Civ3, but you have to draw the line somewhere. maybe not give them an attack 5Imagine that... getting a "sell pot" option in your espionage screen.. but they could be used to keep areas safe soren, no you don't. that's what mods are for ;) i would have like to see expanding resource issue addressed Understood... BTW,you guys have done a fantastic job. UN Troops- Barbarians of the modern age..... Just an idea. fnbrown : lol Asher: What issue would that be? soren: which is why you put scripting in, so the possibilities extend even further, and the player decides where to set them you cant mod more resources than the base into the game Yeah, I don't quite understand that Glonky... yea i agree you guys have done a good job so far :) whats the number? 24? Ha! Blue helmets insurrection near Cumae LOL actually, i think gamemakers should reconsider having "complexity levels" as well as "difficulty levels". Could solve that problem of making a game which appeals to the hard-core as well as the masses. "Lords of Conquest" is a good example. :) Massive UN uprising LOL2 lol @ un jokes Asher: That's actually a hard-coded art issue (which is why there is no "add" button). The editor actually has no problem with additional resources. I hope to address this at some point. Yer right SirRalph i hear ya mike, does the same thing apply to specialists? i'd like to add a culture specialist to my mod that would be great mike!!! 8-) Yes and no. Specialists are a little more complex but it's basically the same problem. question about barbarians - why are there only "massive uprisings"? Why not have small ones as well (say, six barb units or so)? hey firaxis have you all played with the graphic mods? you likey? ok another civ-question : why not go all the way with stacked combat, a la Warlords, which had a simple stacked combat system? I've checked out some of Sn00py's mods -- nicely done. How many people are working on support of Civ 3 now, compared to it's intial developement? could heroes be modified with the editor? specifically in their appearance good q sirot starmouse: this # depends on your barb setting hardjoy - that would probably mean recoding a lot of the game Sirotnikov: A lot less artists for one thing... 10x and programmers / developers / idea makers? ;) 5<---- would like to see a "wonder woman" great leader graphic mod... Hehe I want spiderman there are 2 doods with beer and a trs80 workind diligently we still have about 3.5 programmers working on it... more or less Do barbarian encounters ever produce great leaders ? argh, I've been cut in half! siralph - i always set it on raging .. but it would be nice to have a greater variety of numbers. one and 24 isn't enough variety, needs something in between <_john> hahaha who's the .5? Some oompa loompa? what does the half guy? hey icedan 3so, stacked combat, is it considered for future patches? he just moves the mouse or gets the beer probably means 3 full-time and 1 part-time would make life simpler in the late game lol with zillions of units .5 goes out for lunch and doesn't come back hardjoy, stacked combat=army army = impossible stacked combat is probably not a good idea mark : armies are not stacked combat all the way Ah, one thing I would like to see an option to toggle is the 4 turn fastest tech rate on and off... not a good idea? 3Is it possible to make Jeanne d'Arc's hair grow ? hello mark are you crazy? true stacked combat would require some significant AI changes. Not to say it's a bad idea or won't be done... what about natural disasters? these servers are bloody slow yeah? hardjoy, true but it's something 2stacked combat seems to automatic to me what about making a wonder for armies/heroes? wonder allows you to create a hero say every 200 turns or somethign soren: you aren't discounting it as a possibility? WOW! kudos no: you would like to keep comtrol, which unit attacks first and so on snoopy, try a different one. or how about the Olympic games as a portable wonder ? provost - you can do that, use the editor to set it to 1 turn techs :) Soren. Gaga. CTP2 style combat may come to civ? okie dokie Natural disatster please soren, i've bumped up the fighters bombard in my mod, and set intercept to 90% but bombers still have better bombard, will the AI realize to send in its fighters first to clear out enemy fighters? or would it still send in the bombers first? I never noticed that :-D "possible" is always better than "no" :D *loads up editor as we speak to check* mark: indeed just remember that everything is possible... ND - SLICed in CtP2 thank you germany for your superior technology (natural disasters that is) everything is possible! WOO HOO!! even adding slic ;) There is no spear. so, what have I missed? natural disasters would require random events, right sure, and moeny grows on trees Firafians. U da doods! weather , natural disasters, etc. If only I knew how... and while I'm at it... different people think different things! No problem, I never noticed you could do that before...(change the tech limit) Firaxians! Firaxians! damit lightning Like me and Lib nye: what do you smoke? GodKing - swap games random events would be nice snoopy, soren just said they are going to include your graphics in the next patch! 5Gotta run... once again, thanks, Soren....et al... good work! 5I just made a map with the improved editor (undo function) it was quite fun/easy i would like to see my workers bust out in a brawl once in a while He smokes irritating people called SirRalph ;-) hey, are you firaxians using my graphics? good boy I have, but I always come back. mark: did I say that? hehe random events were a pain in CIV ... an earthquake destroys your temple, instant riot ... Hey, perhaps you could get workers to play football against another nations workers now and again ;-) well, so you didnt :D Sn00py: I've checked out some of them-- nice work. SirRalph. Lots of nic i'm not sure whether i've been asleep or is mark being funny football or soccer strmouse : temples prevented earthquakes ;) hehe ah, he's funny :) I want to do some better ones but the cd is at my dads house, bugger!! snOOpy, we do like your work. I'm just not privy to the plans... Temples prevented volcano eruptions... 3havent seen the new editor yet : any minimap in there? Well, not the eruptions themselves, but people running from them... privy? yeah, that was a little hokey hardjoy, no art is not my domain... nope no minimap :( ah, that's right ... been a while since I played the original game Perhaps you should be able to build 'giant volcano bung' to prevent volcano eruptions ;-) would be nice if there was a disease model mark : too bad whatever Provost lol provost LOL and after the plague, your remaining pop would be resistant soren any chance of being able to unload units from armies? also did u know that you can load units into armies from anywhere? as far as the rules go i think this may be a bug, but please don't fix it! i'm surprised noone came up with a small utility so far... Disease in jungles and flood plains is already there memories better than mine ;) without a minimap its hard to make large maps but could pass it on to other civs on contact but if we have volcanic eruptions, we should have volcanoes as terrain how about building a PH to anticipate all possible disasters? It's not possible to make scenario's is it? korn: you shouldbe able to load units anywhere. does the civilopedia say otherwise? hagbart: working on it ph? Yeah, I was just going to mention about the diseases from those...you can't simulate absolutely everything, you don't want the game to get bogged down in overcomplexity. I found that was the CtP killer for me. woohoo Sn00py: working on it. and we don't have plans to allow army unloading. it used to work that way but was way too powerful. soren an early version did good boy right is it fixed now? i believe that, one army being good forever hehe ive hacked my civilipedia to death What's the dirt on completely suppressing a city's cultural reversion? My first experiments with this with the new patch cost me some good units. remember, unlimited terrain, units, etc. *wink* hypnotize hypnotize hypnotize it's not even close to the original version so i'm unsure lol Beard. That's what auto saves are for lol@sn00p Sn00py: technically, unlimited units is already possible -- with Gramphos A quick question about loaded-up armies just came to mind: when you disband a loaded army in one of your cities, how much of the resources do you salvage? ' tool I have never tried it. oh! thanks Gramphos beard: this will probably only be effective for cities with small risk of flipping. we were worried about the "I just lost 20 units when a size 1 city flipped!" issue. I never knew, I disappeared for a while aha BTW, you can now unload armies with the new patch. makes sense anun: i think you get them. i doubt if the interface can handle the info though. how can you increase the possibility of geting leaders? Yeah, but by accident :-D sounds good my cat is staring at me. Use the stack movement feature. It takes units out of an army. beard, no i want to play but i cant leave...chat...arrr 5you cant avoid the culture flipping totally, that would be unrealistic sounds like a bug beard: no... you should be able to do so via the editor though. What was the logic / desire behind not being able to irrigate hills? Well you can edit the rules, or build the heroic epic Markos welcome in the club asher Oh yes. It is a bug. (heroic epic requires army though already) SnOOpy. Say hi to the cat CIV III CHAT declared as contageous and irresistable soren, i know i'm bugging you but, if another army unit was added to the game, would it be possibe to upgrade a loaded army? and would the AI recognize the need to do this? CIV III CHAT declared TRUE SUCCESSOR of CIV II provost, where? dont have the editor in front of me... korn - i was going to ask that as well I'll have a look, I am sure I have seen it there... lol sirotnikov korn: i'm not sure and probably not. ;) soren: ok actually, I think the answer to the first question is yes... another related question about armies - if you have 2 army types, and one upgrades to the other, what effect would trhe "army" setting have in general settings? ...because I remember worrying about that issue for upgrading galleys/caravels/galleons well good :) i'll test it soon thanks for taking time our for us Firaxians, gotta play the game, bye MarkG, the digest of this chat, will inclide not-questions, if they are funny, right? has anyone loaded an army into an army? Can it be done? I stand corrected, I don't see it...I thought I had... cause, i had some q's, but msotly i feel i contributed to the good spirit of the chat were naval leaders considered at any point? Sea Armies now that would be nice :) maybe an army of Privateers :) and i want that to be preserved for future generations ;) siro, we'll post the full thing hey where do ppl download my mods? f2s suspended my accounts coz I allowed downloads (hey they were rar files, they didn't say anything about rar files!) yay :) snoopy I got it at civfantaics (if that is ok to say here) "sea armies" are called navies.... :) Sn00py: I downloaded some from Apolyton.. wait, that means that on their way to my jokes, civ fans will have to read dozens of other unrelated jokes the individual files still worked here asher :p oh my.... ;) with leaders mouse hehe so difficult to find anything =o( also mike, here is another request, could u add in a capture toggle, so if it is on a 0 def unit can be captured and it if is off a 0 def unit can't be captured too late... I'll go to sleep... soren, what exploits did you want to fix with the patch but couldn't, if any? thank God google came along just when the internet got too big sn00p, do post when you intend to make new terrain graphics Bonne nuit tout le monde ! my eyes are dependant on you to rid them of this yellow shade Good idea, korn no problem, I will give you a pink shade thanks mike :) lol thanks Snoopy i want montains that look like boobs Great idea Korn, or perhaps a toggle to let something be captured part of the time LOL rofl Stupid question: What does immobile setting do for units? asher,any fetishes you wanna share in the OT? I think right now it's based on whether it's AI strategy is Settler or Terraform Makes them, er, immobile? hmm... Air units : immobile aren't icbms immobile? sorry guys, but i gotta go right There was a problem where artillery bombardment sometimes didn't say anything about the result. No "failed", no "... destoyed", no "citizens killed", no nothing. Has this been addressed in 1.17f? Bye! aw, ok Immobile is for air units -- meaning you can't move them directly bye bye soren cya Soren *thinks about making a sex mod to civ 3* we gave artillary a small defensive value, but now they act like military police Both Firaxians. Vel had a good idea in his mod about colourless land units. Brigands. Do you plan on incoeporating some of the better mod ideas into the game? so long Soren. Good job. bye soren [quote] Snoopy i want montains that look like boobs[/quote] :rolleyes: When is Firaxis going to release the nude patch for the french? thanks for chatting soren! 5,00;4,00) *** Soren_Johnson_Firaxis has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) bye soren we'll miss you Immobile units need a rebase mission to get them from one place to another, unless you launch them. Or send them on a mission. lol@snooppy I've gotta go too. bye soren the french...snicker bye mike hmmm It's like a Firaxis exodus. Thanks Mike Bye! Thanks bye mike well bye mike... so who will answer our questions now? I've got places to go and beer to drink. Later. cya Mike! Bye Mike - youz alright glad you stuck around! bye mike bye. thanks thanks for being here!! we shall just argue among ourselves? *** Mike_Breitkreutz_FIRAXIS1 has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving) what questions? lol@Mike_B yeah, thanks :) somebody was asking questions? Well anyone of any importance has gone now, so I am off to play some civ3 ;-) Bye! that was cool You can moderate now MarkG ;) *** ACS_MarkG sets mode: +m that was all folks thank you for being here until next time.....