Posted by sekong on 29-03-2001 14:40:
A letter from Consul Tuo Lei to Chinese Consul:
Dear
Sir,
Again, Mongol want to gift out some units to China. There is a group
of settler from Bakhara is starving at Sibria. Our city can't support them for
even one more year. I sincerely hope Chinese Goverment can host them. As a
thanks, we can also gift out some ship or horseman. We hope they will become
free unit and don't have to be supported by any Chinese cities.
The
progress of settlement is slow. It was partially because the raging barbarian
arround Canada area. Another reason is the settlers requires a lot of food under
Republic Goverment. In order to speed up the settlement in New World, I suggest
as least one of our goverment need to change to Monarchy. According to our
astologist, the best chance for switching Goverment is at beginning of next
century, which is 40 years from now. I wish to hear your decission soon.
Our country are carrying out a big project called Grand Canal. We hope
to link the Yellow river from Shanghai and Karakorum Lake by the Great Canal.
Then the inland of Mongol empire can be irrigated. If you can build
irrigation at southwest of Shanghai OR Northwest of Beijing, it will help us
with this project. Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Of course, the
most important thing is to found found new cities in North America. Our settlers
there will do it soon. And we hope to hear about your oppions as
well.
Glory belong to Chinese and Mongolian.
Consul Tuo
Lei
Deity pondered the seclusion of
Paul lately.
Was he upset?
The war started by the Adriatics was
certainly no surprise, but a shock all the same.
Clearly they had come to the
New World to cause trouble. They seem to need to be noticed. They have always
spoken threateningly and constantly mentioned ‘war’, ‘fighting’
etc.
Deity, with his supreme and spotless reputation, is anxious to hear
from Paul for he fears that Paul’s thoughts may be tending to war….
But Deity
implores you to consider this:
This is NOT your war.
Your allies would
expect you to remain neutral and your plans to colonise the West Indies may have
been a little over-confident.
But what of the poor Mali I hear you
say?
Seek peace with the AL and maybe attempt to defuse the
situation.
Deity knows that you hold high hopes for vast and wealthy colonies
in the Americas but be content to compromise. Make friends and peace...
I
await your response, Paul...
Things have been going well however on the
Aussie homeland with all cities growing and building various
improvements.
Several new cities were established and one was ceded to help
our loyal allies, the Chinese in developing their nation. North America is
there's and Mali.
Speech given in Manchester to soldiers headed to America before
departure...
I stand before you not as a King, as a Monarch or
Emperor, but as a fellow Adriatic. Today you begin a long and dangerous journey,
one that has only been achieved by a select few, one that will live on in
history whether you are successful or not. There have been many fears as of
late, many assumptions. We look accross the great deserts of the Khazak steppe,
we look accross the glorious Mediterranean, we look into South America, into
Asia prepared for the worst horrors: An international incursion. As a nation we
feel helpless and frustrated, our viewpoint is being ignored and mangled by
politics. We have grown and developed in a world that does not trust us, for
whatever reason, this distrust is unfounded and unfair. We have grown in a world
where a most powerful alliance looms in the east, we have chosen not to let this
effect us, we have chosen not to let fear rule our nation. A new regime arose in
the Mali Kingdom, King Rahim Abdul wrenched power from Ray King. He made large
claims, made threats, again we did not allow fear to rule our nation. Talk,
whether idle or realistic, has spread throughout the world, talk of an Asian
intervention in the Mali-Adriatic war have hit home quite harshly, again we do
not allow fear to rule our nation. To the world you are greedy tyrants, to the
world you are undeserving of what is yours, to the world you are evil. Men I
look upon you, the youth of the Adriatic League, you are our future and I
believe in your ability to defend this nation at all costs. Most of you will
perish, most of you will never see your homes again, most of you will never see
the glory of Europe after you set sail for your various encampments. You will
never again see your family, your friends, your life being wrestled away from
you be the greedy Mali. But men you must fight, fight your hearts out, you must
be brave courageous and dogged in battle. Do not give one inch, not one! You
will die, but you will live on forever, for you will be the men that have
ignored the petty politics, and greed and tyranny of this wretched planet, you
will be the beacon of virtue and bravery. Stand up to them, for they are wrong.
As they are wrong we are right. And as we are right, my friends, we shall be
victorious! Now go to, and save your nation!
(I dunno what Chris was thinking but he put this post in the regular MP area,
so this is a MALI POST, this is not an ADRIATIC POST, thank you and here
goes...)
Ninth Legion
Commandant Hatter Abdul
Troops having
marched the breadeth of the Great Northern Forest arrive in position southeast
of Salzburg, north of the source of the Barri River (known natively as the
Mississippi, flowing east), east of the Fourth Mounted.
Bivouked for
night, sentries placed 100 yards in all directions. No sign of native
activity.
Food plentiful, Land is dry but could be quite profitable with
some development.
Reports from Commandant Sikasso Garalo say his
Fiftenth Legion has arrived at the joining of the Barri River and the Tinkisso
Rivers (the Missouri flowing south) and will begin movement by boat towards our
position.
Brigader Mourdiah Nara of the Fourth Mounted further sends
reports of "All Quiet"
We will strike camp and head out in the
morning.
Julia 5th, the Year of 280 A.D (After.Discovery)
Ship at
Sea
Off the Coast of Porto Marino, enroute to New Timbuktu and the
Consults office.
Orders came in from the Homeland. New World fleet is
going to be kept in the Region for at least another year. The 18th Horse Cavalry
on board has also been ordered docked. Im very glad too, the putrid smell of
horse crap is grating on all the ships crews nerves. The Cavalry men cant take
the sea and we cant take their beasts. It will be a fair trade.
I miss
you and Abbel. I know how unfair this is, for you and her. I cannot express how
much it hurts me also. Ill send money soon and Abbel a gift from New Timbuktu.
With all my love
!lol!
capo: if what you so called dipo was just sending silly mails
arround, and threaten other nations, and even went into war with your neighber
having peace treaty with you, then go kick yourself. Your DIPOaspect made me
sick.
What I was looking for is FUN, peaceful-competion CIV2 game. While
you accused others this and that, you were the first one that actually attacked
others. Now you even send your pathetic troops in front of Mongol cities. They
better leave Mongol's land next turn, or the supreme Mongol hordes will give you
some color see see.
Mongol like to have dipo, but not with a bully like
you. Even it's role-playing, we Mongol hordes don't like devil-role-playing. Be
advised to switch to a more peaceful DIPO-strategy, you will bring more fun to
all, including yourself.
True Peace if you want.
RAY KING
The One who brought Republic of Mongol become Supreme power of the world, the
fourth son of Great Genghis Khan, the man named as Tuo Lei, which means "Bring
the Thunder".
Here he comes.
He is not tall. He does not looks
strong. He smiles like a girl. He laughs like a kid. He looks normal when he is
among his people. But what he decide, no one could stop. When he is angry, the
ocean would cry, the sky would change the color. He is the new leader of proud
Mongol hordes.
[to be continue]
I understand, but
then again why is it that when we asked for an explaination intially you
declined to even tell us to wait, you didn't even respond? How much respect is
that?
Again all we
asked for was an explaination. Seriously, I am sure any leader here would agree
with me on this note: If you recieve a message who's source was China speaking
to another nation advising them at what could occur if they settle in your
territory, and then the Chinese refuse to answer any question with even a simple
word you would take heed and prepare for the worst! Would you not? Then I doubt
your cred as a leader.
I don't believe I
ever accused the Chinese of an intelligent military build-up, just a build-up,
and that has occured regardless of how much tact, or lake thereof, was
used.
Why then wasn't
the city turned over? The city has a unit in it, which means at least one turn
was used to develop it, and since its size exceeds 1 (According to reports from
other nations) it must have been around for a while. So again, if this was its
purpose why wasn't the city turned over to the Chinese?
We have addressed
our situation with Mongolia, we have explained to them that we will not remove
the troops until the issue was resolved, even before it was resolved and at the
behest of Khan War4Ever we agreed that we are overreacting and will remove our
troops, then we were threatened by Mongolia after the agreement was made and in
front of the entire world, that is quite a bit of disrespect as far as I am
concerned. If this pathetic Lou Tei wishes to know what it is to tussle with
Adriatics, then we shall too show him a new color... that color will be
red.
Sekong, we made
an agreement already that I would withdrawl, if it pleases you to flex your
muslces after the agreement has been signed and run your mouth and look tough,
then do that. But as you SHOULD KNOW not only are the Adriatics more than
willing to verbally accomodate you and your weak and infantile words, but we are
more than willing to accomodate your meak little army. Hey, at least your
mortician business will skyrocket.
I want peace, but
not at the expense of me bending over for you! I am a sovreign state and can do
what I wish until someone forces me to do otherwise. I recieved a message that
my territory might be compramised by a foreign entity, I asked everyone in the
West who all swore they had nothing to do with it outright, when I asked
everyone in the East I was ignored, ignored, ig-freakin-nored.
How
respectful is that? You didn't think that I would just sit back and let it
happen just because you are bigger than me did you? Pah! I back down from
nothing, if I ever did I would have failed my people and my title of King of the
Adriatic League.
Peace be with you, and may God have mercy on your
soul... because I won't.
"Come in, come in, do tell, what is your worry young fellow?" so says the
King
"News from The New World sire, specifically the WAF (West Atlantic
Fleet), the 4th Horse Cavalry has put to port and is headed west" so says the
peasent messanger known as Jabber
"Very good, very boring too, dont bore
me with such minor details, I have advisor, you tell the advisors, they tell me,
really now, im trying to enjoy dinner" so says the Annoyed King
"Most
apologies" so says the peasent messanger hurrying out the door
"Nonna
Kareem, tell me my wise military advisor, give me a summary, what does our
military look like?" so says the Thoughtful King
"Our modernization plan
has gone exceptionally well. We sport, by our estimation, the largest fighting
Navy in the world, composed of squadrons of Warships, divided into 2 fleets. We
have replaced all the old Tribal Warrior clans from the forrest with Pikeman,
recruited from the fields, and built up 2 divisions of 4 regiments each of
Legionnaires, 1 division in the New World, one in the Homeland. We also have
modernized most of our Auxilary Cavalry to Elephants, we even have some in the
New World." so says the Brilliant Military Advisor
"Really? We brought
Elephants to the New World eh? I would think that would be quite the feat of
arms, was it worth it?" so says the Intrigued King
"Very much so, we are
quite confident of our success in the New World. With our ability to fortify
cities so quickly and turn out Pikeman just as quickly, defensively we are a
juggernaut, and with many Elephant squads and a full division of Legionaire's,
we are more then prepared" so says the Proud Military Advisor
"Very good,
very good, do you want some dates and grapes? They are actually from Israel
believe it or not, those people do turn out some of the finest luxury items and
foods, but come now, less talking more eating. LILLE! Bring us some fresh fruit,
especially dates and grapes." so says the Gluttonous King
We ask again that the Adriatic’s reconsider their position toward the Chinese
Territorial claim in the new world. We will try to address the concerns of the
Adriatic’s in hopes that they will continue to respect our claims.
The
Adriatic’s main concern seems to be that the city of Bergen which is the city in
Chinese North American Territory is an extension of Mongol territory in what was
recognized as Chinese Territory this however is not the case as it was built
just this last year (turn). The great king of the Mongols is going to turn the
city over to the Chinese control (but due to the shortness of the game and
abrupt end we never got to it).
You must trust us the Chinese will never give
away any of its land to anyone including its allies we have to little of it
already.
Next the Adriatic’s seem to think that we are not pursuing our
land claim in America. The Chinese are still a small and poor nation and we
don’t have the resource to send over to America as fast as the Adriatic’s,
Mongols and the other nations. As of next session with the Mongol city that will
be gifted we will have 4 cities in the new world as we have more recourses being
sent on the way.
If the Adriatic’s still officially withdraw their
recognition of our land claims we will do the same for Adriatic Land claims in
the new world as well if they decide not to honor ours. The Australians,
Mongols, Zulus, and Mali still recognize our claims and we shall still honor
theirs. However we understand the Adriatic’s concern and if they would like they
may have the Mali send a scout or one of your own up the great river through
Chinese territory that combines with the Mississippi, at the top is the city of
Bergen. There they may see if the Mongol city has been turned over to the
Chinese or not. The choice is yours we shall await your answer.
The issue here is not whether or not Adriatic Land Claims will be honored
because (1) We have no official claim. (2) We do have a general claim, but no
nation has chosen to honor this claim, despite the fact that many nations have,
these nations have rescinded on numerous occasions, and therefore we are
settling where we wish. If there is some Adriatic claim that people honor I
would like to see it, becuase so far NOBODY has recognized any Adriatic claim
except for the Mali, but the problem there is that the land they honor is
already under Adriatic Control. How can you offer to take something that doesn't
exist?
I said we would reconsider our position upon review, and that is
what you have done, my major issue here is that until I get an official
agreement from the Pacific Pact telling me what they see as my territory I can
not continue to honor the Chinese claim. It is unfair to me in every sense of
the word.
In order for me to restore my initial agreement as it concerns
the Chinese claim I expect the following in return:
1) The Mongols and
Chinese to follow through with what they say is territory (Bergen I assume) that
is to be ceded to China.
2) An official document from the Pacific Pact
recognizing the Adriatic Claim in the Americas and promising not to violate this
claim.
3) An apology from the Mongols for attempting to shed a negative light
upon our people by making two-faced comments and out right hiding the true
facts.
When these three parameters are met, we will agree to the original
Chinese land grant, we feel it would be ignorant of us to just agree to China's
claim when her allies are treating the Adriatic League in such a manner of
discourse. As stated before: We feel the plight of China is a horrible one, but
it was one suffered at the hands of her allies, and to expect us to answer for
their actions is ludicrous. So if those are our requirements, and we will leave
the original Chinese claim unfettered, however if they are not met we will
continue to stand by our position.
Thank you,
King Ferdinand of
Habsburg
When the Adriatic’s so many years ago agreed to recognize our claim we
recognized their claim to east of the Mississippi and south of the Rio Grande,
not including Baja California. This is the claim we speak of honoring. The
Mongols have no business in that area so I have no doubt they will honor it but
the Australians will have to speak for themselves for you see my good King
Ferdinand I can not speak for the Australians in any business just because we
are allies we are not one entity were one can speak for the other. So you can
demand that the Pacific Pact recognizes your claim and an apology from the
Mongol Empire but we will not pressure our allies to this because the issue of
Chinese territory is between the Chinese and the Adriatic Empires not between
the Adriatic and the Pacific Pact.
We had an agreement and we expect you
to honor that agreement but as we are beginning to see that will be impossible
to expect. The Adriatic Empire has longed talked about not letting its self be
bullied around by foreign powers such as the Mongols and the Mali well China is
a nation just like the Adriatic League and will not let the Adriatic Empire
bully us around. We are surprised that with your talk about being bullied around
you would decide to pick on the weakest nation on the globe.
If we do
not agree as the independent nations of China and the Adriatic League to honor
the agreement we had from before then we will move our Army into patrolling
position along the Mississippi and will attack any unit sent by the Adriatic
League that’s encroaching on Chinese Territory. We wish not for a war and urge
the Adriatic Empire to reconsider their position.
(Message sent from the Adriatic King Ferdinand of Habsburg)
TO:
Foreign Affairs Attache
FROM: Royal House of Habsburg Minister of
Foreign Affairs and Military Cosimo D'Medici.
It has come to the
attention of the House of Habsburg and its most Catholic and Regal head
Ferdinand that the world has again gone ablaze in political talk and threats; it
should be known by now that the House of Habsburg would rather attend to matters
with action rather than words however he sees fit at this point in time to
inform the world of the Adriatic Stance upon such matters as it would be more of
a peaceful means to ending such an infantile discussion.
As to the
situation between the United Adriatic Kingdoms and the Chinese; the King feels
that centuries ago the Australian Republic made a bid for a substantial Chinese
land grant in the Americas. Despite a heavy heart towards the matter his wise
Majesty King Ferdinand relented and agreed to honor the Chinese land grant, with
the assumption that the lands would (a) be used solely by the Chinese for they
were in a situation of duress and needed a means of quick expansion (b) not be
used for any purpose towards the welfare of the Mongolian, Australian, Zulu,
Mali, Israeli, and Adriatic States (c) were essential to the growth of the
Chinese State. Upon centuries of honoring the land grant under these pretenses
the Adriatic Kingdom respected the land grant. However it has come to the
attention of the Foreign Minister attache in Timbuktu that not only have these
three pretenses been since made null and void, but that this has been in
occurance long before the Adriatic Government had discovered. In response King
Ferdinand has lifted his agreement to honor the land grant, and will thus inform
his people that this land is free land for settlement as it was recognized prior
to the Adriatic agreement to honor its ownership by the Chinese Republic. We
understand the Chinese arguments, and they make sense, however regardless we
feel that the grant was not persued in a prompt manner, we fell that some of the
grant has been annexed to the Mongolian Republic and further feel that as China
has made no steps to extend their foothold within this realm that they deem the
area less important than originally indicated. It is under the credulence of
these facts that we must withdrawl our agreement to honor this land grant at
this point in time, we are as always open for discussion on the matter with any
nation that wishes for the grant to remain in complete Chinese control, however
at this point we can not possibly allow that to happen under the current
circumstances.
As to the situation regarding Adriatic Soldiers in
Mongolian Territory; it is a known fact that not very long ago a message from
the Chinese was made public indicating that an unnamed source intended on
settling within the Adriatic Realm, more specifically as the message lineated
"in Adriatic territory." While his Catholic Majesty Ferdinand of Habsburg may
have overreacted to the situation, he does not regret the manner in which he
spoke of the situation initially, he had every right to be angry as any other
nation does including China. Anyone who wishes to compramise the sovreignity of
a nation in such a blatant manner is an enemy to all nations, including his own.
Regardless of this, Adriatic officials began an investigation into the matter,
first we aksed our peace-neighbors in the west, Israel swore they had no
involvement and as they are our allies with which we share a demilitarized zone
we believed them, the Mali who we hold in the highest regard despite the latest
military conflicts stated that they would never hide behind secrecy and had no
interest whatsoever in Adriatic territory our relationship within the West
Indies indicates this as well, the Zulus promised us that they are neutral and
as in the past they indicated they had no interest in "expanding beyond their
boundries" were also trusted and we felt it was not them. However, upon our
investigation into the matter on the other side of the world we recieved a quite
different response; rather we recieved NO RESPONSE. No nation who is a
member state of the Pacific Pact honored our inquiries, nobody spoke a single
word either way, not even an omission to answer was proffered; just silence.
When the Adriatic King Ferdinand discovered this, he was quite stricken by fear
of an invasion, he promptly ordered his troops (who at the time were battling
the vile Republicans) unto the borders of the Eastern states and again asked the
nations to please answer the questions or at least humor them. Still no answer.
Therefore the King made the decision as to who he believed it was that might be
planning on settling within Adriatic lands, therefore he moved his troops into
Mongolia and asked for an answer. As time progressed the Mongols eventually
answered and said that they would not name the culprit, but promised any threat
of it occuring was over. Therefore the King decided to move his garrisons off of
Mongolian territory as it was improper and quite overreactive. This was
indicated to Mongolia who said they appreciated the decision. It was only
discovered later that Mongolia had threatened to destroy the troops if they were
not removed despite the fact that the removal had already begun. Mongolia is now
attempting to flex their muscle at our expense. They are putting us in a
precarious position: (a) we could continue the retreat and let Mongolia make it
seem as if their mere words prompted this removal (b) we could leave the troops
there and give Mongolia the excuse to claim we are imperialists (c) we could
show Mongolia what happens when people decide to degrade our people. Neither one
is a favorable outcome for anybody in this situation, we feel we are nearly
forced to retaliate, however we wish to indicate to every nation that this is
not our intent and if this can be resolved without any type of aggression it
would be favorable to any type of conflict.
We hope that every nation in
the world finds it proper to contact the Adriatic League directly when a
conflict arises with us, rather than to bring the case in front of other nations
in the manner that the Mongols chose. While we respect the Mongolian people and
their Government, we find it disheartening that such a nation could persue such
means and pass them off as peaceful and justified. We want egality, we wish for
peace and believe that it can be achieved as long as the politicking that occurs
due to the situation on the planet would cease and facts are considered rather
than political ties. We are the friends and soldiers of peace, but this does not
mean we will bow to tyranny in order to achieve this end.
Respectfully
yours,
Lord Cosimo D'Medici
The borders
between role-playing and respecting each other as real people can get
blurred.
You can't just say you respect the other players, you have to behave
in a clear fashion that also respects our differences as individuals.
A
diplo game is by definition 'diplomatic' - see CapTVK's faq on diplo
games.
Persistent bullying by one player and bad jokes about quitting is
NOT conducive to having a FUN diplo-game.
I like to have colourful
personalities in the game and love some conflict but consistent global
antaganism is NOT diplo style. Usually you'd have a few border disputes and
maybe a major war or two in diplo-games but generally it is understood that
aggressors get short shrift from the rest of the world combined.
We will
see....
In my defense I'd like to say the following; I am not bullying any nation
around, I have yet to threaten any nation with military action for any reason
that would not permit military action.
The Chinese have not been picked
on. Our stance is that many years, nay centuries ago the Pacific Pact made a bid
to the entire world for a Chinese Land Grant. They made the bid as one entity,
one solid core of nations that stood as one. Whether they like to admit it or
not this is inherently an ominous way to go about peace, to ally into a powerful
conglomorate and basically force other nations to grant the whims and wishes of
this Pact.
I find it quite troubling that the Australians suggested an
international intervention against me, all I have done is said that if the
Pacific Pact won't recognize my land claims, why should I recognize theirs?
Whether they like it or not they are one entity, they are one orginzation, that
is the nature of their alliance and if they wish to deny that forthright I find
it troubling that they think that is the case. Why would I accept a land claim
made by the collective alliance, but at the same time not recieve my land claim
from that very same collective alliance? That is my issue, further the very same
collective alliance was discussing settlement in my territory! What do they
expect from me but some type of response? I did respond, and asked for one in
return so I can allay my fears, however I recieved none! What is a nation to do
when put in such a situation?
It is quite clear that yet again, I ask a
question. Instead of recieving an answer I get a vague statement from allies,
statements that indicate hostilities. It is quite unfair to label me an
aggressor when I have threatened no war, when I have done nothing but support
equality in all land claims and grants.
The Adriatic League does not wish
for war, that is the last solution we deem fit for this problem. However the
Pacific Pact is unwilling to make any compramises, any changes to their party
line, they are a stubborn entity, but they are one entity. You signed an
alliance, you live with your allies and you perish with your allies. You are not
three seperate nations anymore but one alliance, one entity. I am quite certain
that if I found my soldiers staring accross the battlefield they would not only
gaze upon the garrisons of China, but of Australia and Mongolia as well. So
spare me your "We are not one entity" rhetoric, I am no fool.
I continue
to require my terms, I want an apology from Mongolia for attempting to
despariage my troops and my reputation in the manner they have done, I want my
land claim to be honored not only by China but by Mongolia and Australia as
well, and I want the Mongol city encraoching on Chinese territory to be annexed
to China at once. If my terms are not accepted or met it is simple, I honor no
land claims of Mongolia, China or Australia.
To the nations of Israel,
the Mali, and the Zulu I wish to hold a conference in Jerusalem regarding this
situation. I feel I have sufficient grounds to hold one and discuss the
sitatuion of the Pacific Pact in the Americas. I wish to allay any fears and
answer any questions regarding the current situation, and believe that in an
open forum we can put an end to any worries from any nation in the West, I would
further appreciate it if a member state of the Pacific Pact would attend and
represent the alliance to us as well.
Thank you for your
time,
King Ferdinand of Habsburg
(a message arrives at the various capitals of the various
nations)
TO: Foreign Affairs Minister
FROM: Gepetto
Bompinsiero, Minister of Territory
Upon request of various nations, this
message will outline the claim that the Adriatic League wants in the Americas.
If this claims is accepted by the various nations on the planet, their claims
will be respected as well. This is the map of the territory that the Adriatic
League requires, the land which is covered in white is territory that has
already been accounted for and is either under Adriatic control or otherwise
unavailable to parties who do not currently control it (just in case its too big
or whatever):
Out of Character: I agree with Chris; no one should be taking any of this
personally after all its just a game.
IC:
The Chinese Empire is
outraged, how can we recognize this claim if it goes against our previous
Agreement. Once again I will respond if you attempt to cross the Mississippi or
the Rio Grande you will be attacked. And you might win but you will have to
drive the Chinese off the New World all together. For as long as you decide to
settle in our territory you will be our enemy, you talk about not a cause for
war but you destroy our previous agreement and are threatening to violate
Chinese Territory.
We ask the nations of the world not to recognize this
claim not only for our sake but for your sake as well, already the Adriatic have
more cities than anyone except the Mongols, and better land at that. Now they
want a good portion of our land, how long will it be until they decide they want
to make the Mediterranean an Adriatic Lake, how long till they decide that
Greenland is proper territory of Europe, how long till they decide that all of
North America is theirs for the taking. I ask the World to support the Chinese
in this issue it is evident that the Adriatic have gone power hungry. We have
all heard the words the Adriatic have spoken in the past how not to settle on
there land and there racist comments toward the African Nations long ago; if
they persist in this arrangement no nation will be able to stop them and they
will even surpass the powerful Zulu’s.
We once again ask the Adriatic
Empire to recognize our claims, everything west of the Mississippi and north of
the Rio Grande including Baja California.
Statement from King Ferdinand of Habsburg to the Various Nations in
response to the statement from Emperor (?) Prometheus...
As time has
passed the true colors of the Chinese have shown through the veil they once
wore. This is a stunningly sad tale; for thousands of years they have been
subjected to vassalage by their neighbors. Sine the dawn of time they were
surrounded and subjegated by the powerful Mongolian Khan War4Ever. They played
an important, yet impotent role in the development of the Americas. Now they
have threatened war against the States of the Adriatic League.
I think
everybody realizes what is occuring here, let's not sugar coat the obvious or
fight a war of words, it will get us nowhere. The issues at hand are territorial
claims. Nothing more and nothing less. Thousands of years ago the Australians
made a brash claim for their allies the Chinese, it was at this point, and after
lengthly discussion that the King Lorenzo D'Medici agreed to honor these claims.
It was understood that the Chinese would NEED this territory to expand after
centuries of toiling under a Mongolian yoke, centuries of being a weak and
pitiful country. Then arose a great leader in China, Prometheus. My Lord Medici
respected his majesty Prometheus, and his new instutions; the Republic,
exponential expansion, setting up contacts with foreign nations including our
own. The gaps were bridged, China suprassed our allies the
Israelies.
However in this time China underwent numerous changes, her
allies who once held their collective foot over the throat of China were now
making amends for their actions. Borneo, Kamchatka, Siberia, Japan; all new
territories gained under the reign of Prometheus from foreign states. More
specifically the allies of China. Korea and Manchuria were settled by
Prometheus, and China was growing quickly.
All the while the seeds were
being sown, the alliance that was established between the Mongols, Australians
and Chinese was strong and imposing to the western nations who for centuries
have argued amongst themselves over even the most pathetic stretches of desert
land. The west, unlike the east, grew in a place where at any moment a horde of
Adriatic, Israeli, Mali or Zulu troops could be outside of your capital. We grew
in a world where distrust wasn't merely a negative quality, but a key aspect of
survival. Only the strong, the willing, survived among the strong western
leadership.
Centuries later, the American issue came to pass, countless
hours spent at the homes of ambassadors, senators, dukes, kings and consuls were
poured into the issue for the prevention of an all out war. One of the issues
was the situation in China, at this point they were just beginning to experience
the rise of Prometheus, their renaissance as our French say. It was common
knowledge throughout the world that the Chinese plight was very real, and
possibly less common knowledge that it was suffered primarily at the hands of
its allies the Mongols. The Adriatics with a great deal of foresight realized
this, and King Lorenzo D'Medici clamored against the Chinese claim, citing that
if the Pacific Pact wished to amend the Chinese situation, they would do so by
giving China the lands taken from under its nose. Politics agian hushed the
Adriatics.
Politics got in the way of the truth, regardless of this, our
majesty Lorenzo D'Medici failed to obsolve the problem and relented, accepting
the Chinese land grant. Since that time the expansion in the New World by the
Chinese has been zero percent, not an inch of land was gained, not one inch, not
a bit of new land was developed, the same city in teh same place for centuries.
Does this sound like the actions of a desperate nation?
Meanwhile, troops
entered Mexico, and despite the Chinese insistance that they recognized this
land as Adriatic during the Adriatic-Mali war, they moved into the area. Does
this sound like the actions of a peaceful nation? Further the Australians
claimed Mexico when they have no prescence in the immedeate vicinity, the
Chinese their allies claim that the powerful garrison sent into Mexico is there
to explore. Maps are available, I know for a fact that not only do the Adriatics
have maps of Mexico, but the Zulu do as well. Further, why send your strongest
units if this is mere exploring? Do these sound like the actions of explorers?
Or plunderers?
With these latest activities by China, combined with the
ominous message recieved by "Drunken officials" of China, the Adriatic League is
forced to review the situation. We have made no threat of war, no movement
towards war, or no words that would be condusive to war towards the Chinese, yet
we are met with hostility. The Chinese, NAY THE ENTIRE ALLIANCE, made a bid for
a Chinese land grant. We agreed. We made a claim, yet they deny us the same
respect, why? Because they are imperialists? Because they have no respect for
us? Becuase they have no appreciation for what we sacrificed? Because they are
foolhardy?
The answers to these questions are tough, and moot, and would
only be answered with assumptions. We do know this; if our land grants are not
accepted we see no reason to accept the grants of any other nation. The Mali
have accepted our claims thus we accept theirs, the Israelites have accepted our
claims and we are thankful to our allies, the Zulu have accepted our claims and
we appreciate the wisdom of Shakeem.
The Mongols had accepted our claims
yet don't seem to respect them any longer, this is not strange, for they did the
same to their "allies" the Chinese.
The Chinese accepted our claims
during the war with the Mali, yet they have done nothing to acquire dominance
over their grnats, and have let foreign powers who have in the past DOMINATED
them to settle within this territory.
The Australians have offered
nothing, have said nothing, and continue to say nothing.
This is our
stance, so let it be written so let it be done.
Statement from the Malian Embassy
The Chinese people, for so long,
have suffered ill fourtoune. They have lamented their fate to the great Empires
of the world, and the whole world has offered sympathy. But have the Chinese
ever contemplated their fate? Why do the Chinese lack a true homeland? Why are
they forced to wonder the abandoned "left-overs" of Asia? Why are they offered
only large expanses of land in areas their Asian Allies cannot
control?
Have the Chinese thought, "who controls our homeland? Who
intentionally took the great plains along the Yangtze and Yellow Rivers? Who
owns, the homeland promised to the Chinese?"
The Adriatic League? So
accused for hienously infringing on your New World claims? They have never been
to China.
The Chinese, as a people, must come to a point, where they
decide once and for all, who is responsible for their current dificulties, but
more importantly, they must decide NOW, who is responsible for the Chinese
future? Will your Mongol "allies", who luxeriate along the Yellow Rivers, who
tax the Cantonese people, be allowed to dictate your future? Will you continue
to be sent on a collision course with the Adriatic League? Ask yourself, have
the Mongols promised to help you? Where is this "alliance" as you hurtle towards
conflict?
The Chinese have suffered a horrible plight yes, but sooner or
later, they must decide, do they allow the same forces which crippled them to
continue to dictate their actions? Or do they grasp their future by their own
hand, and stand up, and demand that their proud Nation be treated as a memeber
of the world community.
Mali will help China, but first, China must help
themselves...
Most Respectfully,
Diplomat to Beijing, Rahim Tingasso,
Noble of Benin
Ok, also out of charcter talk.
Thanks for the comments, Chris. I'm
kind of new to dipo games. Your posts make clear some issues, thanks. When I
first came to this game, Capo kinda of warning me that it's a dipo game not war
game, etc. But later I found he was the one who play tough, and finally actually
sneak attacked others. I was a bit confused. That's another part of the story
beside what has been told.
I like Chris' explanation, and agree that we
should not take anything personal. On the other hand, I against
evil-role-playing. Inside and outside the game. Because it brings bad effect to
our pratice in life. You may disagree with this, then please take this as my
in-game role-playing.
Back to game issue:
1. After a short
conversation with Adratic leader, we glad to know that they will withdraw their
troops from Mongolia land. We welcome peace with Adratic.
2.About the
new land claim of Adratic, I can see at least 2 problems: overlap with Chinese
claim on Northwest, where no settlement done yet; overlap with Aussie claim on
Southwest where city has been founded. we need somehow to solve these problems
and maybe more if other member of our ally raise them.
3. As the request
of Mail, their legion are allowed to come closer to city of Salzberg temporally,
as long as they will keep the "Mopti land agreement", which is Mali will settle
on east of Mopti; Mongol and allies will settle on west of Mopti. Considering
the new AL claim, and the fact that our land claim will be shared by at least 2
countries, and there is no other power present in NA yet, Mali appears to have
the best land claim, if not the largest claim on NA.
4. Based on an
agreement with China, Bergen and another NA mongolia city, yet to be announced,
will be ceded to China next turn.
Peace,
Consul of Mongol
To King of Adratic League:
You are asking Mongolian to apology to you?
Did you ever apology to Mali after you broke the peace agreement, attacked and
destroyed their ship and the units on it? It's you who invaded the land of
Mongol. Did you
ever apology for that?
Mongolian did nothing wrong.
What should we apology for? First we asked your unit to left Issus, now it's
even closer to the city. Further more you moved 2 more units on the land of
Kabul. All of these invasion is just for an answer to your question? Anyway, we
answered your question. But before you agree to left you threatened Mongol to be
responsible if anything will happen. Such threat is unacceptable. Mongolian can
only be responsible for what we did, nothing more. If you want to threaten us,
and stay on the land of Mongolian, then it will be you who are responsible for
the consequence of this invasion.
We said what we did is because:
1.
the so-called agreement of leaving Moinglia territory comes with a threat.
2.
From the recent report of Adratic, there is no sign of retreating.
3. From
the history of Adratic League, it has a bad reputation of dishonoring treaty and
agreements.
Look at the history of Adratic league: he performed bully
behaviours to almost everyone having a border with him: broke the peace treaty
with Mali and sneakly attacked them; Adratic city used 2 of the only 3 grassland
on pathetic north Africa coast, which suppose to belong to Mali based your land
agreement; invaded and threatened Mongolian; attempts to dispute the land claim
of China when you just about to meet them. Yes, there seems to be one exception:
alliance with Israelite. But it apears to do more harm than helpto them.
Your may have have fun with this kind of dipo, but it's based on the
dislikeness, if we don't use the term suffering, of other nations. You better
change it.
After you withdraw troops from Mongolia territory and apology
for the invassion, you may have a better ground to talk. Show that you are a
responsible leader, and having the wish of peace, then sure every one will like
to talk about your land claims.
May God help you to realize your fault
and we will welcome the change.
Sincerely,
Consul of all Mongolia
tribes.
P.S. If there is anything I should apology, then it's maybe I
took this a little more personal that it should be. If you keep your promise,
withdraw
your troops from Mongolian territory, and promise won't come into
the radius of our city without permission, willing to sitted down and talk about
the land claimmings in NA, then maybe I was a little over-react. I would like to
apology for the overreaction personally, but Mongolian have nothing to apology
when their land are invaded.
Out of "Character" so to speak
Im only going to go through this
once.
This is a game. More specifically this is a diplogame. To go one
step further, it is a diplogame that we all love. Therefore the following things
are expected-
1) People show up, on time, ready to play the full time,
unless they tell us before hand (this means days before, not hours) they cant
and why not.
2) People are civil and polite to each other OUTSIDE the
game.
3) People do NOT take things seriously
4) People try to act
like a national leader in the game, and treat their nation like a real
nation.
Now. Let me clear some misconceptions.
War exists in a
diplogame. Diplogames center around Politics. And as Clauswitz says, War is an
extension of Politics.
Now, admittly, its an expensive and destructive
option. It should not be taken lightly. But it IS an option and it WILL happen.
We did not come here to make cities, build settlers, and then race for wonders.
I can do that against the computer, its boring, its lame. We are here to be
nations, this means alliances, treaties, border disputes, wars, trade,
negotiations, etc etc etc. World War II happened in the real world? It can
happen in a diplogame.
So we get to the issues now. Capo is acting like
a bully? So what. If you think his nation is a bully, treat it like one. We are
a community of 7 nations. If one is acting to big for his shorts, then slap him
down. This is how international politics work.
Now, secondly, this
isnt personnal! If someone invades you, rapes your women, and calls you a
turkey, its in the game. Dont get offended. We cant all be good hearted caring
democracies which love our people. There has to be a Russia, there has to be a
Germany, we cant all be the good ole US of A. Its just spicing up the game. If
we were all good, nothing would ever happen. It would be some disgustingly
boring Utopia. Consider being bad ever once and awhile. You dont have to be bad
all the time, just for a session or two, it adds depth to the
game.
Dont turn this into a boring game with a 7 nation UN peacefully
dividing everything making sure everyone is happy happy happy and holding hands.
Lets try to add some spice and some depth, lets pretend its the real world. And
when its all over, dont get pissed.
Capo, did you trick Easthaven, as a new sub, into giving or trading Chivalry
with you? (He says he gave you Chivalry)
If this is true then you behaved
irresposibly as organiser of this game.
The previous Mongol players would NOT
have done this.
Our Eastern alliance has always consulted on such things and
I briefed Easthaven as he hotjoined to take over from sekong. But you confused
him in King Chat and you got Chivalry.
It's hard enough taking over as a sub
without having someone like you clowning around like that.
I GAVE the Mongols
massive numbers of techs earlier in the game as the first leader of the Mongols,
War4ever, and Sekong would testify.
I don't mind losing strategic
advantages from incidents that occur from within the game (and the storyline)
but this, if true, is blatant pseudo-cheating.
I'm very
un-impressed.
It changes the strategies in the game and reduces my
enjoyment of what could have been a good game.
----
Also, it's
ridiculous for Dimbleby, as host, to have gotten involved in a game where he has
such restrictive deadlines.
But it was smart to play on with Sun Tzu as
Israel's sub. Or maybe Sun could just take over...
?
I agree with Deity.
However is it really fair that you (to blame or)
kick Dimbleby out just because he can’t play longer after all when the game
started you guys agreed on 8-11 so why is he expected to play longer. At the
beginning we needed to decide the times, whatever they are.
I think we
need to decide what is going on before next week… who’s playing and who is not
and whatnot also. I know you are intent on continuing the game however I think
we should give some thought to a restart. The game has had more subs than that I
ever could imagine. So perhaps we should restart the game with a core group of
people who can play long hours from say 8-12 EST or even 6-12 EST. But anything
we decide is ok with me.
Yeah Prom,I'm sorry about that Dimb but I'm so cranky about the other
incident.
BTW Capo, I take it all back if I got my facts wrong, but it
doesn't look like it
I think we continue
with this game but let's see what Dimb and others think.
And we could run
another game as well, of course
I didn't trick Easthaven into anything.
Easthaven said he
was confused about his allies.
You said you were everyone's ally (ha
ha)
He hot joins and is trying to get his bearings with the Supreme civ with
loads of cities and 60 units.... and you were badgering him in King
Chat.
I don't see why I have to answer to this.
I asked him if he would like
to exchange technologies, primarily Medicine and Chivalry. He said he would be
interested. I asked him what he wanted and I didn't have anything he wanted. So
we made a land agreement, an agreement towards the Panama Canal, and a
technology agreement. How this is my fault is totally beyond me. He was told by
myself and I believe Chris who he was allies with, if he was confused he should
have stopped and asked me to clarify his situation, I don't think this is my
responsability to not only guess at whether or not he was confused, but remind
him that maybe he should talk to his allies.
Besides that point, I don't
understand why his allies should have any say other than advisory in his
personal dealings. I am not an enemy of the Pacific Pact, and never have been,
so how does this even effect you?
As far as Dimblebly is concerned, I
have to say a few things because the situation is delicate and I don't want
anything to be made out of it other than what it is. Dimb, after you left
everyone except I believe Prometheus remained in the game, host duties shifted
to Easthaven. Overwhelmingly (100%) of everyone wanted to play, the most adimate
about this were Chris and Deity. It was a tough situation to iron out, but
basically the group decided that it would be best if you didn't play in this
game. I don't think its fair to you or anyone else to continue, if you have more
important issues such as a job, then maybe it is unwise for you to continue
playing. This game requires *SOME* sacrifice, not a lot, just some we ask for a
little leeway. I think I speak for everyone when I say this. If we have a
situation where either (a) the game is hurt because you have other
responsabilities or (b) your responsabilities are neglected for some game, then
both sides are really not getting a fair shake. This is no personal attack on
you Dimbleby, I myself hold you in the highest regard, you are always on time,
rarely complain, and are about as dependable as one could get. But the problem
is you aren't flexible, and at this point in the game we need some felxibility
from everyone even if only temporarily. So that is the situation, we may discuss
this matter over the course of the week, as usual nothing is set into stone.
However, as of right now Sun Tzu will be taking over the Israelies until another
means to an end is proffered.
---------------------
There's
something I personally want to express at this time, I hope EVERYONE reads this.
Over the past few weeks I have recieved a bad rap from damn near everyone, in
particular Sekong and Deity. When I say *I* I don't mean the Adriatic League, or
King Ferdinand, or Carlo or whoever is "in charge" I mean Antonin Vincenzo
DeNucci. My actual being, not my character or policy in the game, but my flesh
and blood. I am personally insulted, I consider myself one of the most
cooperative players to be involved with, I never "cheat" or try to "trick"
anyone during my games, I am quite trustworthy. Some of my characters aren't,
but despite this many of you have attacked me personally for what I do in the
game, some of you have complained and if I read what Deity said correctly
suggested starting a new game.
If you have a problem with me, say it,
don't give vague words. I want to know what exactly you have against Tony
D?
This is not a personal attack against Sekong or Deity, I just want to
hear what they have to say so I can address it.
Alright well, as of right
now we resume next week at our usual time, but again we can probably change it
now, so we'll talk, but the roster for next week is as follows:
The Capo
- AL
Deity - Australia
Chris - Mali
Drake - Zulu
Prometheus -
China
Sekong - Mongolia
Sun Tzu - Israel
I hope to see everyone on
time, this past session (Despite a few noteable incidents) was good. It was a
solid session with plenty of action, not to mention a timely start. There was a
lot going on, so I hope everyone finds the time between now and Wednesday to
send Drake something to put up on the website.
Peace.
That's fine. I can do things that I have had to give up since I started
playing on Thursdays back when we started the old Ultradip.
Keep in touch
Capo, let me know when you start another Dip
game.
Some things to clear up.
First of all, nothing personnal to Dimble.
Dimble has obligations he must fufill, life comes before Civ. He didnt want to
bow out and leave us in a lurch, but we found a permenant replacement, and so
now he does not need to worry about helping us out. I thank him for his time,
but I know he was getting tired. His job apparently is pretty strict, and he
couldnt committ a lot of time, further it was obvious he was getting
disintrested in his Civ. SunTzu will at the least provide some spice to the
Israel position.
Thank you Dimble for your time, and thanks SunTzu for
helping out also.
To the Chivalry thing, I dont know what happened. Capo
is a pretty good guy, and I dont think he intentially tricked Easthaven. It is
possible Easthaven however was confused and made a trade that Sekong would not
have, but if that is so, that is no ones fault.
To prevent this in the
future, let me suggest this to all future Subs. When they enter the game,
whoever their closest ally is, the person who has to leave should designate
them, the closest ally should inform the Sub of all prior agreements and stances
to other nations. In the Mongols case it would have been China or Australia to
tell them whats up, not Capo. Further, Subs should NOT trade techs, make new
agreements, or basically ANYTHING significant in the least (unless its time
sensetive and obvious what the course of action should be). In essence the Sub
will be auto-pilot, manage the civ, maintan status quo. This isnt great for
Subs, and im sorry for that, but on the plus side, considering the rate of
turnover we have for players, every Sub has a decent shot at a "fulltime" spot
=)
Now, to the game. This is a GOOD game. Its VERY exciting and going
wonderfully. All problems we have had with it have not been IN game but OUT of
game. Its important to remember that. The game is going great, if we could ever
play it. Now, we have managed 3 very constant players, Capo, Drake, and Deity,
who have played the same civs from the start, and are 3 of the 5 dominant
powers. Prometheus has played all except the very first session, and all except
2 as China, and he has done an EXCEPTIONAL Job playing them. Sekong covered Mali
for 2 sessions, but has played the last 3 as Mongolia for War4ever and seems set
there. I, inexcusably, was absent for 3 sessions due to personnal reasons out of
my control. Its not much of an excuse, but I am back, have been on time, prompt,
and im set. Thats 6 of the 7 Civs set and have been set for 3 sessions and in
all likelyhood will remain set. SunTzu is now Israel, and though he has had some
issues in the past, I suspect he is there for good. So we have 7 set people in
the Diplogame, have had only the beginning session of China under AI, and
everyone now is ready to play some extended sessions. I would say this diplogame
is in better shape then quite a few which are forced to run with only 4 or 5
people.
That being said, let the games go on
First, i have to agree with Chris that the game is in great shape. I would
hate it if I could not continue to be part of it.
2nd, I would say, Capo,
as personal, has earned me great respect till last night. You sure have great
ability of organize the group, making the best the decission for the group, and
always open for negotiation/discussion. There was miscommunication times, but
generally can be solved. I treasure it. As capo suggested, I'll take the game
issue within the game.
3rd. about the tech issue. I confirm with deity
that Mongolia got a lot help in tech from our alliance with Aussie. The problem
happened because I could not play last night, sorry to my allies. Now I think it
would be nice if king of Adratic League could tell us what's the details of the
so-called "Panama agreement".
Thanks for bearing with me, my
friends.
Suggested Rule change/addition
Increase the movement of ALL ships by
2.
I also suggest Caravals have their defense increased from 1 to 2 leaving their final stats at 2/2 (right now they are 2/1, same as the longship)
I think 2 add. moves is a lot to ask....I'd vote for one first i
think.....
Thanks for the positive vibe sekong.....we definetly need to
keep personal issues out of the game
So can you start
early next week sekong? Anyone else?
We just missed it
in the King chat but I feel you are being deceptive Capo.
This is your smiley
after bragging in King Chat to everyone about how smart you were to have done
this deal:
From Imperator Carlo V D'Habsburg (A.D. 480): >
To King
Prometheus, Consul Easthaven X (A.D. 480): East
To King Prometheus,
Consul Easthaven X (A.D. 480): I'm just talking to allies
From Consul
Easthaven X (A.D. 480): i just gave him chivalry
Your tone in your
replies is calm and resasonable but I got a real mischievous sense in the game
that you knew you'd pulled off a fast one on Easthaven. You were bragging about
it and chatting to all players at the time.
And in story terms don't you
think allies would be consulted about that canal issue. Did Easthaven realise
you were blocking the canal and charging a toll to other nations? [Not mine
though, since I have my own canal ]
And Sekong has asked to
be informed of this agreement his civ has signed which he has no knowledge
of!
---
I can clearly delineate your game 'characters' but I think
'Capo' blurred that boundary with this incident. You knew what you were
doing.
I love your characters.
I just felt your skylarking around
and doing this deal was not in the best interests of the game and I'm sure you
know that. Sekong or War4ever, as stated, would NEVER have done this
deal.
---
I never said to start a new game other than as an extra
game. Someone else suggested starting this again, not me.
I'm really
prepared to continue with THIS game.
I know we'll get over this and my sense
of humour may even return
It is a great game and I
want to see it finished.
I can start a bit earlier and play a lot later as a
general rule.
Your next Thursday is our Good Friday but still fine by
me.
---
I'm a bit sorry I started that thing with Dimb and now
it's lead to him out of the game, it seems.
Bit rough but the consensus was
there.
I've said this in
other games.
You can't change rules mid game.
I was not happy with the
Longship suddenly losing its non-sinking ability regardless of whether it was a
rules.txt mistake or not.
And I'm certainly dead against increasing ship
movement now.
It changes so many strategic things...
Games must start
and end on the same level playing field.
My idea of a diplogame is the
opposite of the common idea which is to have numerous restrictions. In my game
there are little to no restrictions (other than as far as bribing goes) and this
includes removing SDI and changing Fundy, I want to stress the liberty one
should take, Diplomacy is not the same as Democracy. I don't expect a bunch of
little United Nations running around, I want a plethora of characters, which is
why I try my hardest to bring to the table a new type of leader.
When I
act the way I act, I am representing a realistic type of person: A European
Monarch. No less a Habsburg, I think anyone who has even the slightest amount of
knowledge of 17th century Europe would know that if anything I am doing the
Habsburgs no justice at all, they were arrogant brash egotists, while I may be
those from time to time, I am more egalitarian than they have ever been (and for
that matter than most European Monarchs whether Bourbons, Habsburgs,
Brandenburgs, etc.) have been. If you feel my character is bad, then judge him
with your characters, don't jude me.
Again, muchas gracias to Easthaven,
I give him a lot of sh1t but he's a stand up guy.
Deity: Don't hate the
player hate the game.
Back to the story:
Paul is totally frustrated and upset at the apathy
in the world over the Panama issue.
Surely there are some nations of
principle?
The AL has blocked the passageway with a tri that is within the
city radius of the Aussie city of Panama and are I believe they are charging a
toll.
You may not need to use the seaway through Panama at the moment but
there comes a time when you may.
Paul is also curious about the appearance of
Mali Longships in the area that are also on sentry duty? Why is
this?
Australia itself continues to prosper but Paul¡¦s pre-occupation
with South America is a bit alarming. He's always been fascinated by banana
republics and now he has several growing quite well (republic colonies not
bananas!) but with a Republican Government corruption swipes over half of the
income.
Back in Broken Hill a total c**k-up occurred. They were meant to
build The Oracle. But no, these outback hicks rush built the Oracle and then
called it Sun Tzu's War Acadamy, losing some 100 shields or 2 caravans
Anyway,
that may prove to be a blessing in disguise as World affairs
unfold....
Trade to distant nations is at present a dream but the
imminent arrival of Navigation may prove to change this. Currently plans are
focussing on trading with our great allies, the Mongols and the
Chinese.
Our new technology program is developing well.
The
mysterious King Shakeem of the Zulus was keen to send caravans of exotic goods
to Australia but we have yet to see any sign of such goods? He also proposed
that we share in building a massive road program in South America. Paul would
like to have exchanged maps to clarify where our respective cities are but he
did not want my allies to see his map, even if our allies were happy to trade
maps. Bit tricky this, maybe we just send explorers into each others
land?
Well SunTzu is in for the long haul, i was informed on some treaties, and how
dimb didn't even try and get a piece of the americas......well i gotta get some
land/money/science somehow. So i'm thinking of cancelling this treaty banning my
to ask for toll for the Suez Canal. Well....i think next session on gonna charge
10gold for each turn of use at the canal. Gotta fund the rising Israelite Nation
somehow
Now he is bullying on his only ally. Let's see how far he can go. The Consul
of Mongol smiles.
I am not bullying on my ally. His country in involved in a treaty that has
this rule in effect. I am informing him of the alliance he has signed. Sun Tzu
may speak with me privately if he has issues here, but the treaty has been
signed, and there are some specifics he should know about before he does
something like this.
If I had failed to tell Sun of the parameters of the
agreement, thus prompting him to block the Suez and charge money, which in turn
would cost him upwards of 300 gold, then I would be bullying him.
It
looks like Mongolia is arguing a stance that does not exist. I have yet to bully
any nation, I'd like some specific examples of my "bullying" ways. OBJECTIVE
examples would be better, but since we are talking about the Mongols we are most
likely going to get a one sided story/argument, I await his rebuttal...
It was just my role playing speaking. I hope Capo did not take it personal.
Otherwise, I don't dare/want to continue.
Peace,
Ray
Open message to all nations.
Like the Panama Canal, in principle the
Suez Canal should be freely available to all nations of the world, since they
are natural watercourses on this planet and no nation has spent any funds in
building a canal. But if the AL can block a canal half a world away (and in
Aussie territory) and charge a toll I think it even more legitimate that the
Israelis charge a toll for the Suez Canal which is in their
territory!
Sun Tzu, can you publish this agreement your nation has signed
to allow free access to member signatories?
We have to agree with our Aussie ally.
-- Consul of Mongol.
Well here's the problem i wasn't around when this alleged agreement was signed, so i think it should be void. For all i know capo can be making up half the agreement to go to his advantage, the agree itself is stupid, the canal is in my territory and i have the right to charge for its use. And i will do so next session. King SunTzu declares the FAWA treaty canceled on the Israelites side and will charge a toll of 10gold a turn.
Although Paul of the Aussies believes all the water ways of the world should
be free for all nations to travel we accept that the Israelis have more right
than any other to charge a modest toll such as the 10 gold being asked. Paul
accepts this.
I would think twice Sun, the agreement has that whoever breaks it pays a fine
of 100 gold per signor. That is how it was agreed upon, which means as there are
THREE signors, your total fine for breaking the treaty would be 300 gold (150 to
Mali, 150 to me).
So what's better? Not charging 10 gold per use and
keeping 300 gold, or comming up with 300 gold to pay?
I think you see my
point.
I don’t think we should be changing any more of the rules around midway
through the session. I won’t know if I can play at an earlier time till later
this week, but I will be able to play as late as you guys want.
Anyway
back to the game…
The Issue of the Panama Cannel and the
Suez:
The Israelites we acknowledge have full territorial control over
the Suez and therefore have the right to charge a price of passage, which we
believe to be a reasonable sum. While we are not aware of Israeli-Adriatic
affairs we believe the new Israeli government has full authority to undertake
the charging of a sum. The prior agreement which, we are led to believe would
award 150 to each the Mali and the Adriatic’s, is flawed as the only way to
force Israel to pay would be to declare war.
The Panama Cannel while in
control of Adriatic ships is in Australian and international territorial waters
and therefore we do not think that the Adriatic should be stopping traffic. With
news of the Mali ships, the Chinese wonder if perhaps the Mali will be
blockading the Adriatic blockade of the cannel.
In any event the Chinese
have no interest really in any of the cannels, as we will not be using them. But
the Chinese do second their allies’ sentiment of free waterways.
Just so all nations have a clear idea of how the AL are blocking the Panama
Seaway within my city radius....
------------------
*deity of THE
DEITIANS*
aka: half-assed dieticians
icq# 8388924
Israel has an agreement with Mali and the Adriatic providing free access to
Mali and the AL, but charging a fee to everyone else. Further there is an
agreement preventing ANY ship in the Mediterreanean except for Mali, Adriatic,
or Israel, unless those 3 nations give approval, and Gilbaltor also has a fee,
except for Mali, Israel, and the Adriatic. This was published as the FAWA or
something on this forum.
No I do NOT think you should be able to go back
on all of your treaties Sun just because your new. You can try to renegotiate
but this is a diplogame, you dont get a blank slate just because you just
joined, that would be like the US pulling out of NATO everytime a new President
is elected.
Of course you could just not recognize the treaty and assume
Mali and the AL wouldnt do anything about it, thats up to you.
Well, if a
transient Mongol leader can start throwing away Eastern Pact techs then I'm sure
Sun Tzu can establish his own set of rules about HIS territory
"Eastern Pact" techs, thats funny Deity.... you should consider a career in stand up comedy.
(Terms of Free Atlantic Waters Treaty)
The following terms are to be
collectively known as the Free Atlantic Waters Treay (or FAWT) and are to be
signed into effect by the Unified Adriatic Kingdoms (Adriatic League), the
Nation-State Mali, and the Kingdom of Israel.
I. No vessels carrying the
banner of the signors of this agreement are to be present within the waters of
the Mediterranean ocean upon signing of this treaty, unless one or more of the
following criteria:
a. The vessel is one of strict transport, meaning that it
has no attack value higher than 1.
b. The vessel is entering for purposes of
upkeep after it has been attacked and has suffered damages and is headed for a
city which MUST have a port facility capable of fixing said damage.
c. The
vessel is accessing the Mediterranean for the purpose of traversing to another
ocean (ie from Atlantic to Indian, or vice versa).
II. No vessels
carrying the banners of other nations are to be permitted in the mediterranean
unless all of the following criteria have been met:
a. payment is made to one
or more of the signors of this treaty.
b. all signors of this treaty have
agreed to this nation's enterance into the mediterranean.
c. the ship must
continue movement at all times in the same general direction towards either exit
(Gibraltar, Suez).
d. the nation must be in a state of peace with all signors
regardless of either criteria a, b, or c.
III. In order for foreign
vessels to traverse the straights of Gibraltar they must pay a sum of thirty
gold, which may be amended to any fund deemed at a later date by the signors, to
the United Adriatic Kingdoms and to the Nation-State of Mali. At which point
this sum is split in halves to each side. Two vessels of the Adriatic League are
to be placed in charge of this task, they will be dispatched at (66,42) and
(65,43) any further ships may be provided by the Adriatic League within these
boundries but are not permitted within the Mediterranean Ocean as provided for
in section I.
IV. The Panama canal is to be of free access to all signors
of this agreement and is owned by the United Adriatic Kingdoms. The Adriatic
League may not prevent any signor of this treaty of free and uncontested access
to this canal for a period of 500 years of peace, any act of war will void this
period. After 500 years the Adriatic League may reserve rights to this canal if
it deems fit.
V. The Suez Canal is the sole propery of the Kingdom of
Israel. Access through the Suez must be proffered to the United Adriatic
Kingdoms and the Nation-State of Mali, and may not be removed by the Kingdom of
Israel ever. The Kingdom of Israel may charge any sum of money for a foreign
nation to pass a ship through this canal subsequent to the terms of section
II.
VI. Any act of war between the signors will void this treaty. Any
omission by either the Nation-State of Mali, the United Adriatic Kingdoms or the
Kingdom of Israel will remove the status of "signor" from that
nation.
VII. All signors hereby agree to this treaty and the terms
therein, any act which goes against this treaty will result in fines not in
excess of 100 gold per each signor.
This treaty was created and signed into effect on 3.29.01 in our days, so any
suggestions that it was "just made" are ridiculous.
I am pretty sure one
or more of you would suspect me of this...
Well i'd just like to say that the new government of the Israelites has
canceled our end of the agreement and will start a toll on OUR Canal which is in
our waters and land boundaries.
It has been written in the Israel Canal Act
that a fee of 10gold per turn will be charged.
You are just going to CANCEL it? Does China, Mongolia, and Australia support this going back on a signed treaty?
We don't support it.
So the Mongols and the remaining Asian Alliance feel as though Israel should and must continue to abide by the terms of the treaty they had previously signed?
Paul does not believe such a treaty ever existed and mistrusts the European
fork-tongues.
Sun Tzu of the Israelis is free to do as he wishes in his
country with his land, including thge Suez.
Panama, however is not in AL
territory and Paul is perplexed at the position taken by the AL on
this....
Why does Australia not recognize the treaty? Because it was not posted on the forum prior to this argument?
Regardless of how the Australians hold us as far as reputation goes, and
regardless of Sun Tzu's change of heart, this treaty stands. It is an official
treaty and was created centuries (a session or two) ago. For Sun Tzu to spit
upon this treaty is highly disrespectful not only to me and the Mali who
colaborated on this document, but to the people of Israel who deserve a fair and
honest leader. Further, for the Pacific Pact to get involved in affairs that are
not of their concern, and to use politics as an excuse for Israel to break the
treaty is beyond me.
If it is Israel's perogative to leave the treaty,
they owe the Mali and Adriatic League 150 Gold each. That is the way the treaty
was written, and that is what I am holding my ALLY to. Regardless of how
close our relationship is, and regardless of how much technology and money I
have given to him in the past, I do not expect this to be a free ride for
Israel; the Mediterranean Pact is not a welfare state, it is a mutual
cooperation.
I am saddened that this incident has occured, I will discuss
the matter in private with Israel in order to save this situation from blowing
up into something it should not have blown up into. Thank you for
listening.
King Cosimo D'Medici
The wind that morning was biting and cold, the snow hard and
unyeilding.
Corporal Narducci surveyed the Mongolian encampment from the
hill, and turned to his advisor "Take a look" he said as he handed Captain Rossi
the telescope "See that? They added another brigaded of mounted Samurai
(knights) that makes what? 1,000 more?"
"Yes Corporal, I see. What are we
going to do?" asked the captain, returning the telescope.
"What can we do
Bernardo, send word to Orsoni, we need more reserves. Hand my my ledgers." the
captain ran down the hill into the tent looking for the documents, just then
loud trumpets could be heard from behind, it was hard to make out in the thick
snow but a band of mounted soldiers seemed to be making their way down the path.
"BERNARDO!" yelled Corporal Narducci "Go to! See who comes!"
The Captain
ordered some men to go see who it was, the soldier yelled back but it was
undecipherable to the Corporal. "Corporal, they are Templars! They wish to speak
with you!"
The Corporal stood for a while "Send their commander Bernardo!" he
looked again towards the Mongolian encampment, when the man approached.
"I am
Jacques DeMolay, commander of the Templars, we have been ordained by the Pope
himself!" he said proudly.
Narducci hated Crusaders, they weren't
professionals by any stretch, they were religious zealots who turned against
their own faith for glory, to him they were hypocrites "Look here" he handed
DeMolay the telescope "See the Mongolian encampments, it had grown by at least a
thousand men."
"I see" said DeMolay "Mounted Samurai, hmm, what's the current
plan in this situation?" he asked.
"Nothing really, we have orders to patrol
the border, nothing more nothing less, we have requested more reserves... who
sent you?" asked the Corporal.
"I was sent my the Pope Pious II, he wanted to
know what the situation was with us and the Moslems." he said, as he handed back
the telescope.
"This isn't about religion, its just a border patrol." replied
the Corporal, DeMolay stared at him.
"Everything is about religion... we are
setting up camp over in that field there, I will speak with you in the morning,
I too will call for some reserves. It seems as if we will need them. Good day
Corporal... a Monacan like myself is not used to this bitter winter, I shall now
retire to my tent, adieu." with that DeMolay left.
The Captain walked up
the hill again "What did he say Corporal?" he asked Narducci.
"Not much
Bernardo, the church has dipped their beaks into this. I am not happy that the
Templars are here." said the Corporal "Send the word to Orsoni, we need more
men, this is getting interesting....."