Will anti-Semitic lessons soon become mandatory in the Flemish schools in Belgium?

[Panag]

Will anti-Semitic lessons soon become mandatory in the Flemish schools in Belgium?


60 years after the deportation of Belgian Jews on the 30th of September 1943 the Flemish government is subsidizing officially a pro-Palestinian leaflet that reeks of anti-Semitism for use in Belgian schools.

“Become an anti-Semitic teacher for 5 Euro only.”


1. Introduction

This document concerns the production of a booklet, a cd-rom and an exhibition stand, by several Belgian State sponsored NGO’s. It is the culmination of more than two years of collective hysteric partisanship from these NGO’s against Israel and Israeli related people, goods etc… This collective hysteria is largely organized through funding toward their so-called humanitarian actions from both the Flemish and the Belgian governments with the taxpayer’s money. Most of these funds have been given in good faith but diverted by these NGO’s to import, by all means, the Intifada into Belgium and, by doing so, they fuel the anti-Semitism.

After an overview of the background leading to the booklet and the official support from Flemish Ministers, we provide a translation of the content to let you judge on the anti-Semitic nature of these NGO’s production. Despite the formal appeal of the King of the Belgians, they did continue to import the Middle-East conflict into Belgium by any means, as in part 3 where information is given about their anti-Semitic enterprise openly issued on the Internet.

The laxity of the Flemish authorities is exposed by their official response, if any, or the lack of reaction on these unlawful documents.

Further short analysis on the rewriting of history by the NGO’s is provided.

The annex includes parts of the original Dutch booklet or cd-rom documents that were used to back our statements as well as any other relevant information.


2. The Belgian context

From the start on of the 2nd Intifada several Belgian NGO’s decided in concert to support the irredentist aspect of the Palestinian cause. They did so mainly by slandering Zionism and Israel, to the point of asking for the abolition of Israel as a Jewish State. In this way they imported the bloody war of the Middle-East into Belgium. Since the very beginning of their campaign, their aggressive stance and anti-Jewish propaganda resulted in an ever increasing number of anti-Semitic incidents in Belgium, as unseen since the of World War II. It culminated with the burning of a doll dressed as a religious Jew during a pro-Palestinian demo...

Furthermore, several attempts have been made to introduce this collective anti-Israeli hysteria into the national education system by similar texts, but they have failed until now. If the distribution to all schools by a green Minister of the federal government has been stopped, it seems that his Cabinet has explicitly instructed not to sent these previous documents to Jewish schools marked as such!

The new texts under the format of a booklet, a cd-rom, available for a ridiculous low cost of 5 euro, and even an exhibition to rent for free, have been originated by NGO’s like 11.11.11, Pax Christi, Broederlijk delen, Vredeseilanden, Socialistische solidariteit and pseudo-historians like Lucas Catherine, archivist of the official Flemish state TV.

Other actions from these organisations, which would not be able to survive without the Millions received through the government funding, consist of the specific boycott actions against Israeli goods, demonstrations that resulted in anti-Semitic actions never known in Belgium since the end of WW II. It is clear that Belgian taxpayer’s money is hereby recycled to import the Intifada into Belgium.

Recently, a new documentation has been produced with the financial support of the Flemish Minister of Cooperation (Mieke Vogels and her successor Ludo Sannen), and by the publicity in the official paper (Klasse) of the Flemish Ministry of education and is getting its way into the schools.

Letters have been sent to Minister Sannen, to the Flemish Cabinet of education, to the Catholic education organisation, etc. meetings have taken place to avoid that incitement to hate in the multicultural Belgian society could be instilled in our youth through the education system. After more than 1 month, the Minister that sponsored this publication has failed to show any sort of reaction or self-exoneration is the only result. On the contrary, some official Flemish governmental instances glorify that anti-Semitic publication.

Recently the Flemish education authorities explicitly disapproved a political campaign organised in schools against the extreme-right party, Vlaams Blok, so proving that even the anti-Israeli teaching is unlawful for use in schools. However when it concerns anti-Semitic documents coming from left or extreme-left organisations the same laws does not seem to apply.

Other very disturbing facts have emerged in the Belgian society : today, the country is well known for having one of the most important number of anti-Semitic actions in Europe, such as synagogues attacks, physical attacks against the Great-Rabbi of Belgium, against scholars, students and Jewish families on the streets, against Jewish shops and after these anonymous acts, impunity is so high that even openly burning in public the effigy of an orthodox Jew does not create any reactions from the Flemish law inforcers.

And last but not least, the King Baudouin Foundation has given a mere 25.000 Euro to the responsible of a so-called independent mediacenter, which has propagated over the last years anti-Semitic texts and cartoons.

All these actions tend to give the impression that they could be used as an ex-ante justification of potential upcoming terror activity against the Jewish community in Belgium.

3. The anti-Semitic nature of the brochure and Cd-rom

Several statements in the brochure and CD-rom use a language and distort historical facts so as to stimulate anti-Semitic sentiments with the Flemish Youth.

As far as the history of the Middle-East region is concerned, the Jews “invade” whereas the other people “establish”.

The Shoah with its 6 Million assassinated, biggest ethnic cleansing of world history, is mentioned in a short sentence “And then comes World War II with fatal results for many European Jews” aimed at a subliminal Holocaust denial.

Neither any trace about the fact that Hadj Amin el-Husseini, the mufti of Jerusalem, Arafat’s uncle and mentor and the leader of the Arabs in the area, actively collaborated with the Nazi regime and according to his own memoirs met Hitler personally up to 4 times before the “Endlösung” has been decided at Wannsee.

Through the whole pamphlet the Jews are marked as a people that flee and occasionally were dislodged, but the Palestinians were mainly dislodged and barely fled. The Jewish refugees of Arab countries are not even mentioned, but when they arrive in Israel, though most of them had no other choice, are immediately characterized as Zionists and presenting them as racists and ethnic cleansers. The brochure, by its historic distortions, succeeds in teaching that the victims are to be considered guilty.

According to the incriminated publication, the ‘Zionists’ constitute the overwhelming majority of the Jewish people and are described throughout the document as very well organised, well armed and over-influencial. Similar insinuations can only be found in the anti-Semitic pamphlet “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”.

Other subliminal anti-Semitic language describes the Jewish people in Israel as terrorists since the beginning of the conflict, whereas Palestinians are only considered to be unsoiled resistants.

The real objectives of the PLO and other Palestinian organisations to expel the Jews out of the region, to destroy the Jewish state, etc. are smuggled away or barely mentioned “PNR distances itself from terror”, “the anti-Israel articles are taken out of the PLO charter”

Describing that the nominated Palestinian Prime Minister is “acceptable” for Israel has for the writers the explicit meaning of “corruptible”; it gives the impression that this kind of statement is even directly inspired by actual Nazi literature.

4. Other acts of anti-Semitic nature by the same organisations

A year ago Pax Christi has put forward on the 11.11.11 website the suicide attacks were only a 'fait divers'. (annex n° XXX)
Only after this has been considered in the newspapers as reprehensible by Cardinal Danneels the text has been smuggled away without even the least excuse from the management; only an explanation saying the author was shocked by the fact this statement was designated as reprehensible. According to such a way of thinking the 20 death including many little children and the teenagers and those heavily injured from the recent terror attacks, are undoubtedly disqualified as victims.

http://www.standaard.be/Misc/print.a...ST21062002_022
and the hypocrite attitude of Pax Christi:
http://www.standaard.be/Misc/print.a...ST22062002_012

The Oxfam movement calls for a boycott of Israeli products and even indicates on its Internet site
http://www.11.be/palestina/slik.htm the following Dutch-spoken statement:
(look under treated agriculture products): Een aantal verwerkte landbouwproducten zijn hier toch te vinden, soms in de gewone winkels van grootwarenhuizen (vb Sabra Salads), soms enkel in die vestigingen waar Joodse klanten in de buurt wonen
Which means words to words in English : A number of treated agricultural products although are around here, sometimes in ordinary shops of supermarkets (eg Sabra Salads), sometimes only in those branches where Jewish customers are living in the neighbourhood.
Oxfam International has publicly apologized, although explaining that the boycott concerned all Israeli products.

Anyway, the 11.11.11 “charity” group called several times for demonstrations, of which the one in Antwerp with Mr Jahjah's AEL, where not only Jewish shops have been attacked in a pure pogrom style, but also a scarecrow dressed up as an orthodox Jew was burned in public.
Our country didn't witness such an anti-Semitic demonstration since 1945!

http://www.gva.be/dossiers/-a/abou%2.../betoging2.asp
where one can read :
"The Platform for a righteous peace in Palestine, the organiser of the manifestation,
...
Meanwhile a doll which was the symbol for an orthodox Jew has been burned hanging at a basketball pole."

The subscribers of this platform are on:
http://ppa.park.be/ppa/ondertekenaars.htm en
http://ppa.park.be/ppa/links_ondertekenaars.htm
and clearly show: 11.11.11., CODIP, Geneeskunde voor de Derde Wereld,
Oxfam Wereldwinkels, Vlaams Palestina Comité
who also all are the undertakers of the booklet and the CD-Rom


E-mail received from Oxfam International regarding their boycott of Israeli products

From: "Info"
Date: Tue Aug 26, 2003 5:14:27 PM Europe/Paris
Subject: RE:
Return-Path:
Received: from icarus.OxfamAmerica.org (unknown [63.251.133.20]) by

I am writing in response to your concern about the connection of Oxfam Belgium to a civil society movement to promote a boycott of selected products grown in the West Bank and Gaza. As you know, Oxfam Belgium (Oxfam-Solidarité), an independent Oxfam affiliate of the Oxfam International confederation chose to join this campaign.

In reviewing this matter, the leadership of Oxfam International felt that the core messages of the Belgian campaign were unclear and inappropriate. Oxfam regrets our association with these messages and images and sincerely apologizes for any offence caused. We would like to underline that this was not an Oxfam International campaign or position. To be explicit, Oxfam International does not support a public campaign for a boycott of Israeli produce.

I'm pleased to report that the Simon Wiesenthal Centre has accepted our apology and our actions. You might visit their website to see their full statement and Oxfam's as well. I think you will agree that Oxfam is an organization that recognizes when it gets things wrong, and I hope this reassures you about our mission and values.

Oxfam International works with partners on both sides of the conflict; we continue to call for an end to violence and of the occupation of the Palestinian Territories, and have consistently condemned Palestinian acts of terror.

Melanie
Melanie Moore
National Outreach Program Assistant
Oxfam America
26 West Street
Boston, MA 02111
Phone: 617-728-2464 or 1-800-77-OXFAM ext. 464
www.oxfamamerica.org

[Panag]

5. The Letters sent and responses received

Letters were sent to the concerned Ministerial cabinets and to the Flemish Catholic education responsible mentioning the anti-Semitic nature of the document, the distortion of history, the other hate acts of the participating organisations, and their responsibility in the sponsoring or distribution of it to the Flemish Youth.

The introduction letters state:

Dear Sir Uyttendaele,

According to our telephonic conversation I send you this letter, also in the name of the parents and grandparents from different religious opinions who don't wish their children and grandchildren to be educated with the feelings of hatred which have been used in the 1930s and the 1940s.

After World War II, during which some six million Jews, an unknown number of gipsies and a huge number of other people have been killed by the Hitler Regime and after the fall of the Berlin Wall, when the tenths of millions victims of the Stalin Regime were finally confirmed, we wish to build up a tolerant society for our descendants.

We therefore were very happy to hear the following words from our King during his speech of July.21 2002:
“Other communities neither were spared. Attacks on synagogues do prove this. It is intolerable discrepancies from the Middle East are imported to us.”

Our disappointment therefore was extreme when we were informed about an initiative which obviously was supported by the Flemish Development Cooperation Minister, Mrs Vogels, in order to import the Middle East conflict not only in Belgium but also in the Education system and moreover on an unilateral and untruthful base.

A few NGO's such as 11.11.11., Pax Christi, the Oxfam Group and others,
which are presently using citizen’s taxes money to spit hate by exploiting a language of hatred against the state of Israel and indirectly against our Jewish population already are well-known for their anti-Jewish feelings and thrive to fuel a state of mind close to the Nazi Regime, especially in the schools by offering a pamphlet and a CD at a minimum price.

In the name of a tolerant society and loyal to the words of our King we ask you to remove and even withdraw completely all this documentation from the schools.

In the hope you share our concern about this difficult subject we are ready for further argumentation and additional information at your best convenience.

Yours sincerely


The only response received was from the Cabinet of Minister Sannen!!! (original text annex n° XXX)

Subject: Re: so-called "educative" packet on Israel-Palestine
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 09:38:03 +0200
From: "Uyttendaele Bart"

Sir,

By order of Sir Guido Steenkiste, principal private secretary of Ludo Sannen, Flemish Minister of Agriculture, Environment and Development Cooperation, I confirm the reception of your remarks concerning the file of Palestine Committee and I wish to express my appreciation for your sincere wish to build a tolerant society in Flanders.

Concerning the remarks about the same file the Minister received the Israeli Ambassador on Friday 29/08/2003. The Ambassador clarified his concern about the contents of the document to the Minister. During this conversation the Minister insisted that neither the Minister nor his services are responsible for the specific contents of projects funded by the Flemish Government. This not only concerns development cooperation subventions but also subventions assigned to other sectors. The contents of the subvention proposal were conformed to the stated requirements and therefore the project was funded.
The responsibility for the contents entirely lies within the organisation itself, which can be called to account for the contents. Concerning the use of the Palestine Committee file in the schools, within the framework of the freedom of education it's up to the schools to determine the contents taking into account the statements of the Education Minister. Concerning the Middle East problem the Minister never took any position pro or contra one of the involved parties.

In the hope to have answered your demand of clarification we meanwhile stay

yours sincerely

Bart Uyttendaele
Development Cooperation Councillor

6. Short comments on the content of the brochure and CD-rom

When reading the booklet or viewing the cd-rom one cannot help but feel that their first and maybe only goal is to slander Israel, Jews and everything Jews cherish. The authors definitely consider the existence of a Jewish state as an anathema. And to prove their point they do not shirk from rewriting History. Their work contains so many omissions, misrepresentations and half-truths that even a halfway correction of it would fill another booklet. For the sake of briefness, we will limit us here to some of the most glaring examples of plain bad faith

The making and flowering of the Jewish Nation in Antiquity is given scant attention if any attention at all. Moses is not even named. Neither is the part that the Jews played birth to monotheism. King David is mentioned but only as a warrior king. That the Jewish nation was at the time of King David already hundreds of years old is conveniently forgotten. As is the post-David Jewish realm.

However, if the authors forgot Moses, they took great pains to mention Judah. Just in case probably the reader had forgotten that, a Jew allegedly sold Jesus to his executioners. That this accusation has led to two thousand years of anti-Semitism, persecutions and pogroms does not seem to disturb them. Anyhow, they never seem to have heard about these pogroms and persecutions. Nor do they show any awareness of the fact that for two thousand years Jews all over the world have longed and prayed for a return to their Promised Country, the land where once the Jewish Nation stood and now stands again on a small part of it. Emphasis is put, again and again on the Arab character of those who have governed the area then called Palestine. Only when one reads between the lines does one find out that the majority of them were Kurds or Turks. Actually the Arab reign over the area lasted barely twenty-seven years.

Important historical facts are deliberately concealed, such as :

- Trans Jordan, now Jordan, was part of Palestine and made up 70% of its territory till it was given away by the British to an Hashemite sheik in 1922 ;
- the mufti of Jerusalem, Arafat’s uncle and mentor and the leader of the Arabs in the area then called Palestine actively collaborated with Hitler ;
- in the same period the Locarno Treaty omitted to give an independent state to the Kurds, as promised to them by the Neuilly Treaty. They now still suffer persecution trough five Middle-eastern countries (presently they no longer persecuted in Irak).
- That between 800000 and 900000 thousand Jews were driven out of Arab countries with nothing more than the clothing on their backs and that a majority amongst them found refuge in Israel.
- The authors do not mention that all other refugee problems of the same period have been successfully solved and that the main reason Palestinian refugees have been kept in refugee camps, for more than fifty year instead of being resettled, was and is that their resettlement would not only serve their own interest but also Israel’s interest.

Please note that this list is not exhaustive.

We also found quite some gross distortions of the actual facts. Following examples are again not exhaustive:

- The authors pretend that Jews were granted full citizenship in Arab and Muslim Countries. Have they never heard about the ‘dhimmi status’ and everything it entailed for Jews in Muslim countries?
- Concerning Israel’s War of Independence the authors pretend that the Zionists were well armed, well organized and that they had it all mapped out… History though is somewhat different. The Zionists did not have more or better arms than their enemies and they were out numbered. So, what made the difference? In contrast with the Arabs, the Zionists had no choice. They had to win if they wanted to live. The same was not true for the Arabs.
- According to the authors of the pamphlet, Israel starts a preventive war in 1967, using as an excuse some ‘strong’ language of Nasser and Egyptian troop movements in the Sinai. Really? How come no mention is made of the real reasons for this ‘preventive war’, the most important reason being Nasser’s blockade of the Israeli port of Elat on the Gulf of Aqaba by closing the Strait of Tyran? This, of course, is an act of war in international law. Left unsaid is also that Nasser had demanded and obtained the withdrawal of UNO Peacemakers in the Sinai.

Concerning the civil war in Lebanon the authors note:" In Lebanon starts a cruel civil war in which the Palestinians get more and more involved.” Actually, the Palestinians started this war!
Concerning the Sabra and Chatila disaster, the authors state without a speck of proof :
“The Israeli army looks on without even trying to intervene” This version of the facts was categorically denied by one of the perpetrators of the killings. Furthermore :

- The authors constantly quote Jewish and Israeli personalities out of context, so as to put them in the worst light possible.
- The term ‘ethnic cleansing ‘ is exclusively used in criticising Israel. The fact that the Palestinians want a country that is “Judenfrei” is omitted. The fact that Jews are not even allowed to set foot in many Arab countries is also omitted.
- Worldwide Palestinian terror acts such as the hijacking of planes, the murdering of Israeli athletes at the Olympic games, the burning down of Jewish places of worship, the Achilles Lauro-terror act and so on are condoned by the authors as a justifiable way to keep the plight of the Palestinians refugees in the spotlight.
- The murder of Prime Minister Rabin by a Jewish extremist and the murder of worshippers in a mosq in Hebron by a deranged man both get lots of space. But the lynching of two Israeli reservists who lost their way, by the Palestinians is not even mentioned. Nor is mention made of the many Israeli children, women, old people and men who have lost their lives in Palestinian terror attacks since the Oslo Accords. Anyhow, according to the authors, these attacks have nothing to do with terror but are just resistance to the occupier.

And as a cherry on the cake, we get this statement: “A prime minister who is acceptable to Israel (read: who is corruptible) is appointed.”

Is still more proof needed that this Actieplatform is not so much devoted to working for peace between Israel and the Palestinians as to working towards the destruction of Israel as a Jewish State? And that it tries meanwhile to import the Middle East conflict in our schools with blatant pro-Palestinian propaganda and a good dose of anti-Semitism to booth?

7 Statement of the Belgian King on July 21th, 2002

Our King in His speech to the Nation on July 21th, 2002, stated that “it is inacceptable to import the antagonism existing in the Middle-East.”

http://www.monarchie.be/site/fr/act_...person=Le+Roi+

original French text:
D'autres communautés ne furent pas épargnées non plus comme en témoignent les attentats contre des synagogues. Il est inadmissible de chercher à importer chez nous les antagonismes qui existent au Moyen-Orient.

Original Dutch text:
Andere gemeenschappen werden ook niet gespaard. Aanslagen op synagogen getuigen daarvan. Het is ontoelaatbaar dat tegenstellingen vanuit het Midden-Oosten bij ons worden ingevoerd.

[General Ludd]

Ten word summary please.

[Ecthy]

hopefully

[Panag]

Originally posted by Osweld
Ten word summary please.

hi ,

this is the short version , .......

not bad given the fact that the completely detailed one is about 36 mega , .......

have a nice day

[Ecthy]

and I was afraid there was a third part coming up when I realised panag was posting

[chequita guevara]

The rebuttal isn't very accurate either, and it also dredges up a lot of irrelevenices.

[Panag]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The rebuttal isn't very accurate either, and it also dredges up a lot of irrelevenices.

hi ,

can you be more specific , ........

and it tends to be very accurate , ......

have a nice day

[Traianvs]

anti-semitic lessons? I doubt it

[Sandman]

Oh, please.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Trajanus
anti-semitic lessons? I doubt it

Belgians don't need anti-Semitic lessons, they practically wrote the textbook.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by panag

hi ,

can you be more specific , ........

and it tends to be very accurate , ......

have a nice day

All the stuff about Moses is irrelevent to today's struggle. The stuff about the Jews of the diaspora wishing to go home for 2,000 years is also irrelevent.

All the stuff about the Kurds is irrelevent, except for the allegation that Kurds and Turks constituted the majority of the population of Palestine (which is the first I've ever heard of it).

The allegation about the Israelis being outnumbers in 1948 is untrue. Israel outnumbered the combined military forces that were sent against them at all times (except in Jerusalem, where they weren't supposed to be anyway).

What I don't get a sense of is what the pamphlet or CD are supposedly about. Is it about a history of the Jewish people? Is it a history of the Levant / Palestine / Israel? Is it attempting to explain the ME struggles? Without a context to judge the omissions, how do I know whether that's a valid critique.

I only hear they are anti-semetic. Maybe they are, I can't tell from what you've provided me. I do get the sense that the authors equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semetism. I'm anti-Zionist. I'm also extremely hostile to anyone who says anything bad about Jews as individuals or a people. I hae even put my life on the line to stand up to anti-Semetism. I just don't agree with Israel's conduct.

[chequita guevara]

To be perfectly honest, nothing arouses my violent passions like an anti-Semite, although I cut those who've lived under Israeli occupation some slack given they fact that Israel is their evil overlord. I try to point out to them that only certain specific Jews are responsible for what happened to them, not every Jew in the world.

[Sirotnikov]

All the stuff about Moses is irrelevent to today's struggle. The stuff about the Jews of the diaspora wishing to go home for 2,000 years is also irrelevent.

It is relevant since it is part of the moral and jistorical justification for the existance of Israel in general, and the existance of Israel where it is, specifically.

All the stuff about the Kurds is irrelevent, except for the allegation that Kurds and Turks constituted the majority of the population of Palestine (which is the first I've ever heard of it).

It gives an example of why it was a smart idea to give the Jews a state, to counter claims that no such state should be given.

Because it shows how other nationalities who were not given a state, struggle in poverty.

Furthermore I think it proves the coniving nature of european powers and their contribution to the mess in the middle east.

The allegation about the Israelis being outnumbers in 1948 is untrue. Israel outnumbered the combined military forces that were sent against them at all times (except in Jerusalem, where they weren't supposed to be anyway).

That is untrue, unless perhaps you are talking about specific theaters.

I have the official totals figure, and the Israeli and combined Arab forces numbers are roughly the same, but the Arabs at the eve of the war, had better military equipment.

If you are really interested I can find my notes of the exact figures

What I don't get a sense of is what the pamphlet or CD are supposedly about. Is it about a history of the Jewish people? Is it a history of the Levant / Palestine / Israel? Is it attempting to explain the ME struggles? Without a context to judge the omissions, how do I know whether that's a valid critique.

I think it's supposed to describe the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

However it systematically mis-represents the actual events in such a way that causes reader sympathy to automatically be on the Palestinian side.

In this manner, the pamphlet and CD are not objective and are biased. Which may be ok for, say, a private pro-palestinian organziation to give out. However, it should not be given out at schools, since it fails objectivity, and then also fails by only describing the Palestinian narrative.

I only hear they are anti-semetic. Maybe they are, I can't tell from what you've provided me. I do get the sense that the authors equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semetism. I'm anti-Zionist. I'm also extremely hostile to anyone who says anything bad about Jews as individuals or a people. I hae even put my life on the line to stand up to anti-Semetism. I just don't agree with Israel's conduct.

Zionism is the national aspiration of the Jewish people.

To be anti-Zionist is the same as saying that the Palestinians should not have a state.

I wouldn't call people who are generally anti-nationalist anti-smites. However, if a person supports a Palestinian right to a national state, and at the same time denies Israel's right to such a state, it comes from a certain bias, that may very well be ethnically related.

To be perfectly honest, nothing arouses my violent passions like an anti-Semite, although I cut those who've lived under Israeli occupation some slack given they fact that Israel is their evil overlord. I try to point out to them that only certain specific Jews are responsible for what happened to them, not every Jew in the world.

I hope you also point out the responsability of their leaders, having turned down every peace proposal since 1947, and having encouraged the palestinains to flee, whether that was the major reason for the palestinian exodus or not.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Trajanus
anti-semitic lessons? I doubt it

hi ,

you can read dutch and french , ....... the whole story is above , on thursday the minister of education shall give an explanation , .......

the king boudewijn foundation has already said that the money the gave was not meant for that , ..... they are now looking into the matter wheter or not they shall file a complaint also , ....

and as far as anti semitic , when has the nerve to teach children that in Israel the Jews exterminate each year 60 000 arabs , yeah , one could call it " anti semitic " , ......

last week the a judge ruled in belgium against a couple other jokers , then it was from extreme right , next year a judge shall rule against the makers of this BS , ......

and each and every school teacher who uses that BS is not worth the name " teacher " and shall get a complaint on his pants , ........

have a nice day

[Panag]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


All the stuff about Moses is irrelevent to today's struggle. The stuff about the Jews of the diaspora wishing to go home for 2,000 years is also irrelevent.

All the stuff about the Kurds is irrelevent, except for the allegation that Kurds and Turks constituted the majority of the population of Palestine (which is the first I've ever heard of it).

The allegation about the Israelis being outnumbers in 1948 is untrue. Israel outnumbered the combined military forces that were sent against them at all times (except in Jerusalem, where they weren't supposed to be anyway).

What I don't get a sense of is what the pamphlet or CD are supposedly about. Is it about a history of the Jewish people? Is it a history of the Levant / Palestine / Israel? Is it attempting to explain the ME struggles? Without a context to judge the omissions, how do I know whether that's a valid critique.

I only hear they are anti-semetic. Maybe they are, I can't tell from what you've provided me. I do get the sense that the authors equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semetism. I'm anti-Zionist. I'm also extremely hostile to anyone who says anything bad about Jews as individuals or a people. I hae even put my life on the line to stand up to anti-Semetism. I just don't agree with Israel's conduct.

keep it civilized and on topic please , .....

[Ecthy]

you guys do realize that noone else is following this thread?

[Sirotnikov]

Chegitz is.
So do you

Let it die peacefully.

[Panag]

hi ,

let it die

it shall go over

its just a small storm in a glass of water

its nothing

why all the fuzz


where those not the words we ones used , ......

70 years ago , .......


" he who forgets history is doomed to repeat it "

but the victim that forgets what has happend to him is equally doomed to befall victim again , .......

Shana Tova

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by panag
hi ,

let it die

it shall go over

its just a small storm in a glass of water

its nothing

why all the fuzz


where those not the words we ones used , ......

70 years ago , .......


" he who forgets history is doomed to repeat it "

but the victim that forgets what has happend to him is equally doomed to befall victim again , .......

Shana Tova

Fuzz is slang for police officer.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


Fuzz is slang for police officer.

hi ,

maybe in some parts of the world , in other parts it means " its nothing " , .......

have a nice day

[Datajack Franit]

You found out so late that Belgium and France are becoming islamic countries?

[Panag]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
You found out so late that Belgium and France are becoming islamic countries?

hi ,

saw it when in antwerp for the first time 15 years ago , .......

nothing wrong with islam , but something is wrong with fundametalism and the belgians who let them do whatever they want , ......

a huge demonstration is planned on suday in the streets of antwerp , starting at the jewish area by the AEL , run by abou dada , a man who is a liar , thief and a criminal , he lied to get the belgian nationality and the politicians do nothing about him in belgium , aldo he breaks the law every day , .......

mister dada wants the sharia to be implemented in belgium , excuse me , but huh the first person to be on trial should be the man who claims on national television that he has gotten his ID card true lies , ....

have a nice day

[alva]

and the politicians do nothing about him in belgium

As THIS IS a democracy, politics and law ARE seperated.
At one point the prime-minister wanted to intervein but was reminded of this little fact very fast.

and the belgians who let them do whatever they want

This is certainly true for other communities too IMVHO.

The thing is that if you do anything to foreigners you are accused of being racist immediately causing evryone to do nothing. (yep, perhaps until it boils over.)

Why are you so scared 'bout a small group of people that, yes, are fundi's but that's just part of being a democracy. You need all sorts and extremes to find the middle ground.

And Panag, don't tell me that you think the Jewish congregation is consisting of nothing but saints either.

[Panag]

Originally posted by alva

and the politicians do nothing about him in belgium

As THIS IS a democracy, politics and law ARE seperated.
At one point the prime-minister wanted to intervein but was reminded of this little fact very fast.

and the belgians who let them do whatever they want

This is certainly true for other communities too IMVHO.

The thing is that if you do anything to foreigners you are accused of being racist immediately causing evryone to do nothing. (yep, perhaps until it boils over.)

Why are you so scared 'bout a small group of people that, yes, are fundi's but that's just part of being a democracy. You need all sorts and extremes to find the middle ground.

And Panag, don't tell me that you think the Jewish congregation is consisting of nothing but saints either.

hi ,

last line ; nope , but how many jews do you know of in den amigo , .......

lets wait and see what happens today in antwerp , ......


and about the foreigners thing , if that where to apply , what about for example the people from china or india in antwerp , ... you dont see them rioting in the streets do ya , .... ???

leftwing belgians and people from around mister dada , those you see rioting in the streets , .......

funny how no one gets to mention that the courtcase against ariel sharon is history , ..... would this be due to the fact that boutmans and his gang are out , .....

have a nice day

[Straybow]

Yeah, Bin Laden and Al Qaida are "just a small group of people that are fundies," too.

We DO NOT need wackos in order to define a "middle ground," and ideological terrorists do not need to be given a hand in public education.

[Panag]

hi ,

well the belgians have done it again , ......


today trabelsi , an al Q op who was in the same cell as the people who killed mahmoud in afganhistan and who wanted to blow up an american base in belgium with nuclear weapons (!) was sentenced to the max penalty of ten years , ......

since there is a law there that makes you come free after 2/3 and pre trial time in jail counts double he shall serve only a couple years , ......

no wonder belgium is such a terror breading group , the whole system is wrong , .....

imagine this in the states , they would lock you up for what , 500 years or so , .......

mamamia , whats wrong with those politicians in that small country , ...........


have a nice day

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by panag
keep it civilized and on topic please , .....

You asked for examples of what I found wrong or irrelevent. Don't now say that I should stay on topic when you asked for my opinion. And what's that stuf about keeping civilized? I didn't say anything insulting or rude.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by panag
imagine this in the states , they would lock you up for what , 500 years or so , .......

He'd be executed, not that I agree with that. Life in prison is good enough.

[atawa]

Interesting thread.

Alva is right, in any civilised country people of all sorts have the right to hold demonstrations, why not this group?

Anyway, always fun to see how Israeli's respond to any critisism, are you people collectively paranoid?????

Oh and btw, I do support the intifada, after the end of apartheid in South Africa Israel seems to be the only country that still has 2 setts of civil rights. This is wrong and has to be condemned by every nation on earth.
(Most have allready done so on many ocasions, but usualy the US stops any UN resolution that isn't 100% pro-Israel)