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  • North Korea

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asi...ic/3190287.stm

    Will we have war? Is it justified?

    Im thinking, as I do all wars... NO!!!

    Asides from a localised conflict, one of my concerns is China.

    Discuss!
    "I work in IT so I'd be buggered without a computer" - Words of wisdom from Provost Harrison
    "You can be wrong AND jewish" - Wiglaf :love:

  • #2
    There will be no war.

    What I'd frankly prefer is if we (USA) just said "fine, you want to build nukes while your people starve? Go ahead. But you will get nothing from us. Not a goddamned thing. Not a drop of oil. Not one bag of grain. Not a single penny."

    The nuclear genie is out of the bottle/pandora's box is open. I think we ought to have the CIA/NSA/FBI/whatever agencies are responsible for it keep tabs on the possibility of proliferation to non-governmental organizations (Al-Quaida, etc.), and fund them well, but other than that, screw it. This whole blackmail situation is ridiculous.

    North Korea has 1 trump card: nukes. That regime will never surrender them. Ever. It makes no sense for them to do so. Given that, I have no interest whatsoever in helping prop them up (food aid, fuel oil, money, whatever goodies they will demand this time - after that whole non-agression bit is dealt with). I say we just ignore them.

    -Arrian
    grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

    The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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    • #3
      Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
      "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
      He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

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      • #4
        I agree wholeheartedly with Arrian's recommendation.
        KH FOR OWNER!
        ASHER FOR CEO!!
        GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Arrian
          There will be no war.

          What I'd frankly prefer is if we (USA) just said "fine, you want to build nukes while your people starve? Go ahead. But you will get nothing from us. Not a goddamned thing. Not a drop of oil. Not one bag of grain. Not a single penny."

          The nuclear genie is out of the bottle/pandora's box is open. I think we ought to have the CIA/NSA/FBI/whatever agencies are responsible for it keep tabs on the possibility of proliferation to non-governmental organizations (Al-Quaida, etc.), and fund them well, but other than that, screw it. This whole blackmail situation is ridiculous.

          North Korea has 1 trump card: nukes. That regime will never surrender them. Ever. It makes no sense for them to do so. Given that, I have no interest whatsoever in helping prop them up (food aid, fuel oil, money, whatever goodies they will demand this time - after that whole non-agression bit is dealt with). I say we just ignore them.

          -Arrian
          they have more cards than the idea of them surrendering or using nukes. they also have the idea of them selling nukes OR missile technology. and of course, thousands of artillery pieces trained on seoul

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          • #6
            I agree wholeheartedly with Arrian's recommendation
            me too

            just want to add that I think NK is a rotten brat who is just kicking and screaming for attention... They kind of remind me of Milton from Office Space.

            US: "We're going to need you to move you desk to the basement, yeaaaa."
            NK: "Yea, but I can set the building on fire."
            US: "O-kaaaaay, then"
            Monkey!!!

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            • #7
              I think we should interdict their cargo vessels. This might lead to war.
              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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              • #8
                The arty pieces, like the nukes, have an element of MAD to them. If they actually USE them, they will get obliterated. Therefore they won't. The regime wants to survive and be able to run it's little loony bin with cloned cheerleaders (see DanS's thread, it's ****ing scary), not get itself flattened by SK & the US.

                It's the selling missle/nuke tech that's the worry. I agree it's a problem. Other states getting nukes? Not great, but not disasterous, because states will have the principle of MAD to deal with. It's the terror groups that worry me. The best way to keep them from getting nukes, IMO, is serious intelligence/law enforcement work, on a world-wide level. Cooperation between us and our allies, or even between non-allies whose interests happen to align in this area.

                -Arrian
                grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Japher


                  me too

                  just want to add that I think NK is a rotten brat who is just kicking and screaming for attention... They kind of remind me of Milton from Office Space.

                  US: "We're going to need you to move you desk to the basement, yeaaaa."
                  NK: "Yea, but I can set the building on fire."
                  US: "O-kaaaaay, then"
                  Yeah, but Milton DID set the building on fire. NK won't.

                  -Arrian
                  grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                  The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think we should interdict their cargo vessels.


                    It will be necessary if an official policy of ignoring North Korea goes into effect. If we don't respond to their nuclear blackmail, they are going to try to export nuclear weapons and expertise. We have to prevent that from happening, so interdiction will be almost a foregone conclusion, risk of war or not.
                    KH FOR OWNER!
                    ASHER FOR CEO!!
                    GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      They got their nuclear expertise from Pakistan. Part of a quid pro quo missile tech for nuke tech.

                      But we can't do anything about that, because Pakistan is our "ally."
                      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Arrian
                        The arty pieces, like the nukes, have an element of MAD to them. If they actually USE them, they will get obliterated. Therefore they won't. The regime wants to survive and be able to run it's little loony bin with cloned cheerleaders (see DanS's thread, it's ****ing scary), not get itself flattened by SK & the US.

                        It's the selling missle/nuke tech that's the worry. I agree it's a problem. Other states getting nukes? Not great, but not disasterous, because states will have the principle of MAD to deal with. It's the terror groups that worry me. The best way to keep them from getting nukes, IMO, is serious intelligence/law enforcement work, on a world-wide level. Cooperation between us and our allies, or even between non-allies whose interests happen to align in this area.

                        -Arrian
                        not really. the arty can only hit seoul. liberals like to think threats are everything. but if u can escalate it enuff then u could arty seoul and not be in MAD territory. like say if u could hit LA w/ 5-10 nukes the US isn't gna trade pyongyang for LA. In which case its not MAD u just have a war between north and south.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The element of MAD in the arty peices is that they can reduce Seoul to rubble, killing hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, within a few hours. Thus, the US and the RoK cannot launch an attack on the DPRK.

                          However, if the DPRK does so, it wil be bombed back before the stone age, thus it will be destroyed also.

                          Mutualy assured desutrcution.
                          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Yep, that's what I meant.

                            -Arrian
                            grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                            The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                              The element of MAD in the arty peices is that they can reduce Seoul to rubble, killing hundreds of thousands, maybe even millions, within a few hours. Thus, the US and the RoK cannot launch an attack on the DPRK.

                              However, if the DPRK does so, it wil be bombed back before the stone age, thus it will be destroyed also.

                              Mutualy assured desutrcution.
                              the US wont neccessarily "bomb north korea to the stone age" if NK can send nukes at LA. which is kind of the whole point. if NK can escalate it high enuff then arty is no longer MAD to them. sure south korea will bomb NK hard, and we might start funding it. but its not assured, its not that instant and its not that mutual.

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