Who says politics is boring? "You little fruitcake!"

[Sava]

The House That Roared
In Ways and Means Brawl, Names, Police and Sergeant at Arms Are Called

By Juliet Eilperin and Albert B. Crenshaw
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, July 19, 2003; Page A01


It started with the mind-numbing reading of a 200-page pension overhaul bill, erupted into a remarkably bitter name-calling match between House Republicans and Democrats, and ended with a GOP lawmaker summoning Capitol Police to evict an outraged gaggle of Democratic colleagues from a congressional library.

Ultimately, nobody was assaulted or arrested. But the brouhaha that exploded yesterday morning in the Ways and Means Committee marked the most bitterly partisan spat thus far in the 108th Congress, a place already known for unusually angry relations between the Republican majority and the Democratic minority, especially in the House.

The Longworth building showdown lasted less than an hour. But the aftershocks dominated the entire day on Capitol Hill, where House members suspended regular business to blast each other on the House floor.

"This is simple, serious and sad," said Ways and Means member Nancy L. Johnson (R-Conn.), adding that both parties made mistakes that were "destructive to the body."

The morning began routinely enough. The 41-member Ways and Means Committee convened in 1100 Longworth to consider a bipartisan bill that would revise the nation's pension and retirement-saving system.

Democrats objected when the panel's acerbic chairman, Bill Thomas (R-Calif.), brought up a 90-page substitute measure that had been released shortly before midnight the night before. Democrats said they needed more time to read it. Thomas disagreed.

In response, Democrats objected to a normally perfunctory motion to dispense with the reading of the dense legislation. A clerk obligingly began reading it line by line, pausing only when Thomas interrupted to announce: "In the House, the minority can delay. They cannot deny."

As the reading resumed, the Democrats departed to a library just off the main hearing room, leaving only Rep. Fortney "Pete" Stark (D-Calif.) to prevent the Republicans from obtaining unanimous consent to skip the reading. After a few minutes, Thomas asked again for the unanimous consent, and instantly brought down his gavel. Stark told reporters he had objected, but Thomas had replied, "You're too late."

Even before Thomas gaveled the reading to an end, he had dispatched the Capitol Police to remove the Democrats from the ornate library. Two officers arrived and, realizing they wanted no part of arresting House members for milling in a library, called a watch commander.

The commander gently assured the Democrats -- by now playing to the news cameras and loudly demanding to know whether they were under arrest -- that no one would be handcuffed or evicted. In fact, the three officers decided, this was a matter for the House Sergeant at Arms, not the police.

A Sergeant at Arms official soon settled the matter: No security officers would take action in "a committee matter," he announced. The Democrats, realizing they had played the scene for all it was worth, departed for the House chamber, where their contretemps resumed.

The committee's top Democrat, Rep. Charles B. Rangel (N.Y.), said the dispute was more about process than policy. "That's what this controversy is all about," he said. "They unilaterally pass bills" with little or no Democratic input.

Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) introduced a resolution protesting the GOP's behavior, triggering an afternoon-long debate in which each side accused the other of debasing Congress. Democrats charged that Republicans were running "a police state," with Pelosi saying her colleagues had suffered "an indignity no member should be expected to endure."

Republicans recounted indignities of their own: When Rep. Scott McInnis (R-Colo.) had told Stark to "shut up" during the committee meeting, Stark denounced him as "a little wimp. Come on, come over here and make me, I dare you. . . . You little fruitcake. You little fruitcake. I said you are a fruitcake."

Democrats said the GOP simply wanted to change the subject, since Thomas had summoned the police before Stark lit into McInnis. Thomas neither answered reporters' questions nor appeared on the House floor yesterday, letting Rep. Jim McCrery (R-La.) counter Democratic charges.

Speaker J. Dennis Hastert (R-Ill.) tried, but failed, to broker a compromise. The House voted 170 to 143 to reject Pelosi's motion.

Ironically, many Democrats support the bill that sparked yesterday's furor. The measure would accelerate scheduled increases in various retirement contribution limits enacted in 2001. Individuals would be able to contribute $15,000 a year to a 401(k) plan and $5,000 to an IRA, beginning next year. People 50 and older could contribute more.

The bill passed the committee with no Democratic votes.

"I've been here nine years, and this is one of the saddest days we've had in the House," said Rep. Ray LaHood (R-Ill.). "What has happened to the Democrats is shameful; it's embarrassing to our party. I'm sad for our party, and I'm sad for the House."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13376-2003Jul18.html?nav=hptop_tb



I watched a report about this on CNN yesterday. That McInnis guy is a tool. There is more that isn't included in this story. In an interview, McInnis (R. Colorado) said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I thought it would come to a confrontation of a physical nature... and I was prepared to defend myself." Another Congressman reported, "Is Mr. McInnis scared of a 72 year old man? (Speaking of Stark (D. California).

Those Republicans in that committee should be ashamed of themselves, trying to sabotage the democratic process by rushing these bills without debate or Democrat review. It's good to see Rep. Ray LaHood (R.Ill) admitting his party screwed up. Good for him.

[Lorizael]

Republicans recounted indignities of their own: When Rep. Scott McInnis (R-Colo.) had told Stark to "shut up" during the committee meeting, Stark denounced him as "a little wimp. Come on, come over here and make me, I dare you. . . . You little fruitcake. You little fruitcake. I said you are a fruitcake."

We have school children running the legislative body of our country...

[KrazyHorse]

Thank God. The US is starting to develop actual politics...

[GePap]

This sort of thing will only get worse with time:the two parties are polerized in this country and the partisanship will only keep getting more accerbic. We are not that many years away from actual scuffles.

[KrazyHorse]

I love it when the Asian legislatures beat each other with shoes. Is that a cultural thing or something?

[loinburger]

What's the name of that congressman who was nearly beaten to death by another congressman, back in the 1850's or so? Bring back the good old days, says I -- Congressional Gladiatorial Combat is one solution to the whole "term limits" problem.

[KrazyHorse]

"Now, I hear the word 'racist' from that side. Do you have the fortitude or the gonads to stand up and come across here to say that to me, you son of a *****? Come on...."


At this point Stinson walks across the floor and is restrained from getting closer than a few feet from MP John Cannis.

"...that *******, Mr. Speaker, called me a racist...."

http://www.web.net/~refwatch/rogues/stinson.htm

[KrazyHorse]

By law the members of parliament sit across a divide of greater width than two sword-lengths to stop them from stabbing each other...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by loinburger
What's the name of that congressman who was nearly beaten to death by another congressman, back in the 1850's or so? Bring back the good old days, says I -- Congressional Gladiatorial Combat is one solution to the whole "term limits" problem.

C-Span would get better ratings that way.

[Kidicious]

Originally posted by GePap
This sort of thing will only get worse with time:the two parties are polerized in this country and the partisanship will only keep getting more accerbic. We are not that many years away from actual scuffles.

I prefer to beat the **** out of the racists to the one party system

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Lorizael


We have school children running the legislative body of our country...

Hey hey hey, you've got no business going around insulting school children like that!!

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by loinburger
What's the name of that congressman who was nearly beaten to death by another congressman, back in the 1850's or so? Bring back the good old days, says I -- Congressional Gladiatorial Combat is one solution to the whole "term limits" problem.

Charles Sumner in 1856. He was an outspoken abolitionist from Massachussetts. A South Carolina Congressman, Preston Brooks, beat him senseless with a cane. It took Sumner 2 years to recover. Brooks resigned, but was reelected, as his constituents seemed to have approved of such a thing.

[mrmitchell]

Coming soon, with bone-crunching legislative coverage...

X-SPAN

[The diplomat]

it's the democrats that should be ashamed of themselves. They can't stand to be in the minority. They are like spoiled little brats: if they don't get what they want, then they throw a fit.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by The diplomat
it's the democrats that should be ashamed of themselves. They can't stand to be in the minority. They are like spoiled little brats: if they don't get what they want, then they throw a fit.

Did you even read the article? Thomas's actions were rotten, and the Dems had every right to be upset. Notice how even a Republican was ashamed of his party's actions in this matter?

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


Charles Sumner in 1856. He was an outspoken abolitionist from Massachussetts. A South Carolina Congressman, Preston Brooks, beat him senseless with a cane. It took Sumner 2 years to recover. Brooks resigned, but was reelected, as his constituents seemed to have approved of such a thing.

They didn't "seem" to approve -- they gave him outright praise for his violent action. Just read some of the quotes if you can find them.

Also, they sent him new canes as gifts with notes that said something like "Use this again, if you have to."

[Kassiopeia]

I love it when the Asian legislatures beat each other with shoes. Is that a cultural thing or something?

It's a huge insult. Remember the Iraqi in Baghdad bashing the head of Saddam's statue with shoes as it was dragged in the streets?

[Az]

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by MrFun


They didn't "seem" to approve -- they gave him outright praise for his violent action. Just read some of the quotes if you can find them.

Also, they sent him new canes as gifts with notes that said something like "Use this again, if you have to."

I'm well aware of that, thank you. I was phrasing it subtley for the sake of irony. That seems to by why you didn't get it, too.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov


I'm well aware of that, thank you. I was phrasing it subtley for the sake of irony. That seems to by why you didn't get it, too.

smart*ss

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Did you even read the article? Thomas's actions were rotten, and the Dems had every right to be upset. Notice how even a Republican was ashamed of his party's actions in this matter?

Yes, I read the article. All Thomas did was to use a perfectly legal and standard parliamentary procedure to get a bill through his committee. The Dems have used the same procedure hundreds of times when they were in the majority.

Stark insulted and threatened a fellow member with physical violence. That is unacceptable, especially when it is just because he didn't like a certain parliamentary procedure.

[PLATO]

Ahh...American Politics

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by The diplomat
Yes, I read the article. All Thomas did was to use a perfectly legal and standard parliamentary procedure to get a bill through his committee. The Dems have used the same procedure hundreds of times when they were in the majority.

"Democrats objected when the panel's acerbic chairman, Bill Thomas (R-Calif.), brought up a 90-page substitute measure that had been released shortly before midnight the night before. Democrats said they needed more time to read it. Thomas disagreed."

That's normal procedure? To ram through a bill that the other side hasn't had a chance to read yet? Sure. And then there's this:

"After a few minutes, Thomas asked again for the unanimous consent, and instantly brought down his gavel. Stark told reporters he had objected, but Thomas had replied, "You're too late."

Childish and inappropriate, ain't is?

Stark insulted and threatened a fellow member with physical violence. That is unacceptable, especially when it is just because he didn't like a certain parliamentary procedure.

Wait, the other member told him to "shut up." How unacceptable is that? Stark didn't threaten violence, he dared McInnis to make him shut up. Keep in mind Stark is 72 and McInnis is 50, and a former police officer! Who would be threatening to who?

Lame excuses for rotten behavior from the Republicans.

[Sava]

Jolly good show Boris. I figured that at least one moron would rip the Dems on this one.

[Ted Striker]

This thread's title speaks volumes about the thread starter.

A little fruitcake.

[Lonestar]

I remember in the 1800's when there were fights and people brought canes to congress...not for walking, buit for beatin'.

[Giancarlo]

You think this is something? Go watch the Italian Parliament in its debates. I saw it on this new station...

I heard about threats that came out of the democrat's mouths at this incident... they were the ones that started it.

[Sava]

This thread's title speaks volumes about the thread starter.

A little fruitcake.

touche!

although I didn't attack a group in the thread title... I merely commented on the hilarity of the incident in question... perhaps when I form a thread about moron jingos in America, you can use my comment against me in a proper fashion. I'll send you a PM in case you miss it.

ha! Fez... trying to bait me...

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
C-Span would get better ratings that way.

[The diplomat]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
That's normal procedure? To ram through a bill that the other side hasn't had a chance to read yet?

Actually, yes. This may shock you, but dems have used this tactic hundreds of times when they were in the majority.