MOM: how long do your games last?

[da_hal]

usually once i get 1-2 buff heros, the game is over in about 5 years, 1-2 if i ignore nodes and just try to eliminate the other wizards. the problem for me is the beginning game.

1. lack of money: the more buildings you build, the less money you have because of upkeep. is there a point where i should start expanding before i build all the buildings?

2. lack of research: when i try to expand early, i usually don't build libraries, so the only research i'm getting is from mana.

3. lack of mana: if i don't expand with elves or build buildings with other races, i can't get mana.

4. lack of units: no money to support them. usually i have enough food.

5. overrun by wandering monsters: seems like i'm never strong enough in the early game to take out even the easy nodes or neutral cities. if i try, even if i suceed, i lose x amount of units and this means losing xXy number of turns of production.

usually, once i get one city with all the buildings, i'm in good shape because i can use alchemy and turn all the gold into mana, set mana to 0 storage/0 research, and just put all of it into skill.

[bakalov]

I will try to answer your questions, though my answers will be applicable only with Life Magic (Best with 4Life, Archmage, Alchemy, Warlord). You have 3 more. On arcanus I would drop the archmage or the alchemy and get 1N 1C 1S + Node mastrtery. Else I would get Myrran and dwarves.

1. The spell "Just Cause" - always take it from the beginning and cast it immediately. It has the undocumented effect to pacify one rebel per city. This allows you to increase your taxes one level without getting additional rebels. Garrison some cheap units that require only food to reduce rebels further (2 units pacify one rebel).
Use the worlds' resources - build your cities near gold, silver mithril, quork, etc. It is very important to do so if you play dwarves as they double these bonusses.
Do not scout with your starting units - scout with a magic spirit. They are pacifying one rebel if they stay in the city.
Fame - the fame reduces the payment for your armies - when you have troops 1 fame = 1 gold per turn, Just Cause gives 10 fame. You get a better chance for hiring heroes too. Try to keep your gold over 100 most of the time.

I usually use the following order:
Granary -> MarketPlace -> Farmers Market ->Miners Guild -> (may be Shirine here) -> Sawmill -> Forester's Guild -> (Library -> Sages Guild -> Alchemist guild, if the city has adamantium or mithril) -> Military buildings till fighters guild -> units & settlers, 2 cheap units to guard each new city.

2. I do not care about my research early in the game. I am putting it to zero. The spells that I will research when I start making troops are Endurance, Holy weapon and Holy armor.
If you are lucky and get a sage, cast heroism on him and you will have your desired early research ;-)

3. I am usually putting into mana only so much that I can cover the maintainance for my spells. The other part goes to casting skill. The mana for casting I am getting from alchemy. These things work very well with Alchemy and Archmage retorts.

4. Look what I said about fame - try always killing 4+ stacks for the extra fame. Heroism on a legendary hero will increase your fame significantly too.

5. If you are warlord, your starting units will be strong enough to hold the raiders for a lot of time.

[da_hal]

wow i did not know that about fame, thanks

the strat i'm using now is regular build order (similar to yours) then buildings up to pikemen (or whatever armouries allow you to build.) for nomads, the pikemen are attack 6, 6 or so figures, and start as regulars. they are much stronger vs undeads who are immune to missiles, and are pretty solid against the harder random mobs too, like air elementals.

also, i'm expanding with 0-1 defending units. with taxes at 1.5, i have 0 unrest until the 5th population pt, so that's plenty of time. even then, i can slip in a shrine instead of sending another unit there.

i'm also using artificer/runemaster...it's a little harder in the early going without alchemy, but i can get heroes up and out in half the time. i use 3s/3n/3c, so i usually get guardian wind, flight, stoning, flaming on my crafted items.

[bakalov]

If you are using artificier/runemaster you can gain mana by constantly creating items and then melding them - this way you can gain mana equal to your casting skill. Garrison the spell casting heroes in your fortress city to increase your skill and this way the generated mana.

I am trying to maintain my taxes at least at 2.0 which with dwarves is actually 4.0 because they double the tax income.

Also I would take Node mastery too with your spell books. The double power income from nodes should not be underestimated (besides ceasing the dispelling effects of the nodes, which makes them easier to obtain). It is one of my favorite picks :-)

[DaveV]

I like your style, bakalov, and do a lot of the same tricks. Dwarves are a great race, but I think halflings give a faster start, since ranged attack units are somewhat overpowered in this game.

My usual start: LLLLCNNSS, Alchemy and Node Mastery (starting spells: just cause, endurance, heroism, web, phantom warriors). I immediately start building an armory, raise the tax rate to 2, using the two starting units to keep the city pacified. I then go to the magic screen, use alchemy to change 20 gold to mana, set the sliders to 5/2/2, and cast magic spirit. Then I hit "next turn" twice, start exploring with the magic spirit, and immediately summon a second one to help explore. The magic spirits can usually find a nice trove of gold and mana in empty lairs, which I invest in Just Cause and rushbuying shields on my slingers. Once my armory is finished, I build a pair of slingers, cast endurance on them, and use them to conquer the neutral cities on my continent. Against 1-move units, two-move slingers are just unstoppable. Hold your fire until the bad guys are within two squares (to avoid to-hit penalties for long range), then kill a couple of them. When they move adjacent to the slingers, move the slingers back one square and fire again. You can take all 6 shots this way, but it will rarely be necessary.

The neutrals should provide plenty of cash to support your growing army of slingers, who can then start taking out nodes (phantom warriors, phantom beasts, and nagas are the easiest, but even some of the really strong, slow creatures can be beaten if you have enough slingers).

[bakalov]

Yes, when I am playing on Arcanus I use the halflings too :-) Even heard about someone who played them directly as myrran to get the adamantium fast. You should try to get Warlord instead of the second N and second S. The extra level makes the slingers even tougher :-)

[Sikander]

Originally posted by da_hal
usually once i get 1-2 buff heros, the game is over in about 5 years, 1-2 if i ignore nodes and just try to eliminate the other wizards. the problem for me is the beginning game.

1. lack of money: the more buildings you build, the less money you have because of upkeep. is there a point where i should start expanding before i build all the buildings?

2. lack of research: when i try to expand early, i usually don't build libraries, so the only research i'm getting is from mana.

3. lack of mana: if i don't expand with elves or build buildings with other races, i can't get mana.

4. lack of units: no money to support them. usually i have enough food.

5. overrun by wandering monsters: seems like i'm never strong enough in the early game to take out even the easy nodes or neutral cities. if i try, even if i suceed, i lose x amount of units and this means losing xXy number of turns of production.

usually, once i get one city with all the buildings, i'm in good shape because i can use alchemy and turn all the gold into mana, set mana to 0 storage/0 research, and just put all of it into skill.

Try 5 blue, two white and two green or red. You can then build artifacts that allow your heroes to both fly and be invisible. Invisibility will obviate the need for guardian wind as very few units will be able to target you, while flying will protect you partially or completely from any ground pounders. The best heroes to use with these advantages are archer types (Dervish and Elves), as they can avoid the vast majority of attacks and counterattacks by just rolling up close (but not touching) to their targets and nailing them with arrows.

Set mana collection to 100% until you have 38, then build a +1 sword and break it on the anvil for 75 mana. Set mana production to zero and keep building cheapish magic weapons and breaking them for a profit. Once you have a fair surplus, build a few artifacts that giv bonus spell points and give them to any magic casting heroes you get. Half of those points will add to your spell power (assuming that you keep the hero in your capital), which in effect is your mana income every turn. Mana problems are a thing of the past at this point.

[da_hal]

well, breaking cheap weps seems ok, but if i wanted to get free mana i could just use momedit...i'm trying to figure out a non-buggy way to blitz.

the game i'm working now has 2 large continents separated by 1 square which has a strong ruin on it. i can build 6 total cities in relative safety by around year 10 or so.

2 of the 4 enemies are limited to a small continent, maybe 2-3 cities each. one of them, jafar, always gives me suppress magic, time stop, sky drakes, and more if i wait long enough. rjak doesn't give much, so i eliminate him early.

oberic is a problem though. he has about 20 cities on arcanus, and he keeps casting armageddon and great wasting which eat up my mana.

sssla is worse. he is alone on myrror, and usually casts planar seal by year 3 or earlier. he then takes over the entire plane (around 40+ cities) and starts casting SoM by year 15-20.

since this is just ridiculous, i cheated with the nature awareness cheat just so i can see him on the magic screen (nobody else has any contact with him because he casts planar seal so early, unless he puts a city on arcanus) and spell blast SoM.

how about this: what if i bum rush an entire plane and take their cities by year 10 rather than build my own?

[bakalov]

Hm, can you post a saved game from the start of the game or as close to it as it is possible?

[bakalov]

Here are two saves for a typical start with my wizard: just unzip it in your master of magic directory. It will overwrite your first two savegame slots so you may want to have backup of the originals. The first save is almost from the beginning, the second is somewhere at 1406.

[da_hal]

k, will do...probably when i get home later after work. hehe it must seem like i'm hopeless at this game.

the game cheats so much i got used to using momedit, but recently i've decided to bite the bullet and try to go legit...it's painful though when i see the comp players with like 15+ starting picks and sky drakes by year 15.

i'm trying a new strat: 5s/2/2/artificier/runemaster, start a game with elves on an easily defensible starting island, room for 1-2 cities max. set mana to either all storage or 50/50 storage/skill. alchemize gold until there is around 2k, make one caster staff (with either stoning or guardian wind) one armor with magic immunity, and one amulet with flight (all of these with max attack, spell skill, movement, def in that order of preference.) trade for summon champion, get warrax. if it is before year 12, send him out to conquer wizards, weakest to strongest.

edit: after year 12, send him through some ruins to build experience.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by da_hal
well, breaking cheap weps seems ok, but if i wanted to get free mana i could just use momedit...i'm trying to figure out a non-buggy way to blitz.

Doesn't have to be cheap items. I start with the +1 sword then go to a +2 then +3. then keep spending more mana for more powerful items eventually I make a
+3 to hit, +3 to damage, with the two most expensive spell effects available. This cost 225 mana and returns 450.

Of course that is the Create Magic Item spell not the Create Artifact spell that I use.

ACK!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Tuberski


Doesn't have to be cheap items. I start with the +1 sword then go to a +2 then +3. then keep spending more mana for more powerful items eventually I make a
+3 to hit, +3 to damage, with the two most expensive spell effects available. This cost 225 mana and returns 450.

Of course that is the Create Magic Item spell not the Create Artifact spell that I use.

ACK!

I try to build items (to break) that can be built in the fewest number of turns possible while using up as much mana as possible (in that order). This keeps my spell queue clear in case something comes up, while maximizing my mana production.

[da_hal]

bleah, the single city strat stank. it took till year 17 to finish building buildings.

[da_hal]

k, i went back to that saved game i mentioned, and tried the breaking thing...it works pretty good. is it considered a legit strat?