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Did the UN fail?

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  • Did the UN fail?

    Coming into this war there were a series of argument about why this war was needed. The two posted over the most were : Thr liberation of Iraq, and removing the great Iraqi threat.

    Right now those that backed the war feel pretty happy about themselves since they can point and say aim one was met. And it has been met, the poeple of Iraq no longer live under the dictatorship of Saddam.

    But what about the second reason?

    We had many, many threats about how Saddam was the new Hitler and that the UN not moving to disarm him meant the UN was like the league of Nations, unable to remove a grave danger to the world that would kill millions.

    3 weeks later, Iraq used no WMD aganist anyone, and no banned weapons have yet to be found. The Iraqi military put forward what can be most nicely put as "an utterly inept" performance. No terrorist attacks have taken place, nor has the conquest of Ansar Al-Islams territory lead to any news about Iraqi connections with Al Qaeda, nor has anyone yet been able to show anyone from Al_qaeda did anyting in Iraq during this war.

    There are plenty of people here expecting those of us who opposed this war to "eat crow" over the sucessful ending. Well, so what about the claims the pro-war side made about the great and imminent threat Iraq posed to the world? Were all these claims of utter doom to the world if Saddam was left in power true? Will those that made them and claimed the UN was appeasing the new Hitler in the run-up to war at any point admit that perhaps they were wrong in this aspect, or does a sucessful ending to the war portion of the Iraq tale exonorate you from these sorts of questions?
    If you don't like reality, change it! me
    "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
    "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
    "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

  • #2
    the first--and last--time the UN worked, it was in korea.

    and that was because the soviet union wasn't around to screw things up.

    these days, the un is an ineffectual body, thanks to the idiocy of every single nation in the world.
    B♭3

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    • #3
      Only its humanitarian parts can claim any real ability.

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      • #4
        Two post avoiding the question.
        If you don't like reality, change it! me
        "Oh no! I am bested!" Drake
        "it is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong" Voltaire
        "Patriotism is a pernecious, psychopathic form of idiocy" George Bernard Shaw

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        • #5
          you want answers?

          There are plenty of people here expecting those of us who opposed this war to "eat crow" over the sucessful ending. Well, so what about the claims the pro-war side made about the great and imminent threat Iraq posed to the world?
          naturally, the spin machines will try to phase out that part of the war rationale. it will become a war of liberation more than a war against terrorism; the terrorism bit just happens to be a convenient side effect.

          Were all these claims of utter doom to the world if Saddam was left in power true?
          were they? probably not. but we'll never know. utter doom for countless iraqis, yes. doom for the world? please. there is no single nation on this planet that can doom the whole world short of using its nuclear weapons. not even the us.

          Will those that made them and claimed the UN was appeasing the new Hitler in the run-up to war at any point admit that perhaps they were wrong in this aspect, or does a sucessful ending to the war portion of the Iraq tale exonorate you from these sorts of questions?
          of course not. they've won the war, they've won iraq's freedom for now. they're riding high--and they'll bring that up every single time anybody tries to call them on anything else.
          B♭3

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Q Cubed
            these days, the un is an ineffectual body, thanks to the idiocy of every single nation in the world.
            High, the US is the only voice of reason here.......The entire world is wrong
            Eventis is the only refuge of the spammer. Join us now.
            Long live teh paranoia smiley!

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            • #7
              the idiocy of every single nation in the world includes the us, mind you.

              people are stupid. it was a mistake to leave the trees in the first place.
              B♭3

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              • #8
                1. The war is not over.
                2. The people aren't free yet.
                3. We haven't searched that much for WMD
                4. We don't know if we've eliminated all threats to the US.

                So this whole discussion is a bit premature.

                RAH

                Do the math. How big was the Iraqi army prior? How many have we accounted for (not even 10%). Granted many have deserted, but how many are left to continue the fight one at a time.
                It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                • #9
                  3 weeks later, Iraq used no WMD aganist anyone, and no banned weapons have yet to be found. The Iraqi military put forward what can be most nicely put as "an utterly inept" performance. No terrorist attacks have taken place, nor has the conquest of Ansar Al-Islams territory lead to any news about Iraqi connections with Al Qaeda, nor has anyone yet been able to show anyone from Al_qaeda did anyting in Iraq during this war.
                  Its only been 3 weeks dude... im not rubbing anything in anyone's face... its not over till its over, adn it could be years till any real success or failure can be accurately guaged from this conflict. Many questions may take even longer.
                  "I bet Ikarus eats his own spunk..."
                  - BLACKENED from America's Army: Operations
                  Kramerman - Creator and Author of The Epic Tale of Navalon in the Civ III Stories Forum

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                  • #10
                    The UN is a big failure.

                    It doesn't have enough will or power to enforce its own resolutions, and patently fails in national security issues in post conflict areas, like... say Yugoslavia and Afganistan.

                    Its fast approaching the irrelevency of the league of nations. Ultimately it has to at least make an effort to work with the Coalition, understanding its secondary role... since without the US' consent, it has little or no power.

                    Recently, it's only useful role has been in humanitarian aid work, or disarming countries that wanted to be disarmed (E.G. South Africa)

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                    • #11
                      The problem with the UN is structural - the UN has no taxing authority, no external resources, and has to rely on loaned forces from member nations for peacekeeping missions.

                      That means it can be subverted and sabotaged by almost any significant member, so the UN can only deal with security issues with near-unanimous agreement.
                      When all else fails, blame brown people. | Hire a teen, while they still know it all. | Trump-Palin 2016. "You're fired." "I quit."

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                      • #12
                        Absolutely.

                        It just so happens that there is only one superpower left, and that means almost any 'heavy lifting' requires their agreement.

                        The veto system obviously causes a problem too, although it worked when there were two superpowers.

                        Has the world evolved past the UN (as structured)?

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                        • #13
                          Yes and No... the UN failed in theory because it didn't enforce it's resolutions. And No, it didn't, because the US, part of the UN, didn't work within the system.
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

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                          • #14
                            and the reason that the US didn't work within UN auspicies is the fact that the UNSC didn't enforce its resolutions.

                            Quid Pro Quo

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                            • #15
                              Actually that's called circular logic.
                              To us, it is the BEAST.

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