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  • Commons votes WAR!

    Just in.

    Blair is safe.

    Saddam is not.

    Blair wins Parliament vote on Iraq war
    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

  • #2
    rats

    Edit : the article with personal comments within :

    LONDON, England -- British Prime Minister Tony Blair, facing one of his toughest challenges as party leader Tuesday, won a controversial vote in the House of Commons supporting his nation's military participation in a possible U.S.-led war on Iraq.

    In a 412 to 149 vote, Blair staved off a major revolt by members of Parliament unhappy about British involvement in Iraq without backing from a second United Nations resolution.

    Blair does not need parliamentary approval to take Britain into war. But observers said another rebellion in his ranks would be a major political embarrassment. Polls show a majority of Britons oppose a war without a second U.N. resolution.
    How wonderfully Democracy has been respected today. 73% of the commoners voted for the war, while a majority of the popluation oppose it. But our sole aim is to export Democracy in Iraq doesn't it ?

    During a speech before the vote, Blair said Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had failed to comply with previous U.N. resolutions, and he said he believed dictators and international terrorists come together to wreak havoc.
    Believe ? I thought there were proofs ?

    He said he was concerned a dirty bomb might be set off in London or another major UK city.
    Fair enough. Of course, attacking a country and destroying the very power that controls these weapons will have absolutely no consequences with such weapons being sold by corrupt officers to terrorists or criminals.

    Blair told a packed House of Commons: "Our fault has not been impatience, the truth is, our patience should have been exhausted weeks and months and even years ago."

    Iraq was not the only threat to the rest of the world, but "it is the test of whether we take this threat seriously," he said.

    Failure to deal with Saddam would lead other nations to believe they could develop weapons of mass destruction with impunity, he said.
    What about UN inspectors being mostly satisfied with Iraq's disarmament ?

    The U.N.'s credibility would be destroyed if no action was taken, he said: "To continue with strong language and weak intentions is the worst course imaginable."
    That is possibly the funniest bit US/UK ignore the UN completely, and withdraws the 2nd resolution because there wouldn't be a majority to back it (and not only French and Russian vetoes). US/UK spit on the UN, but of course, it is to make the UN respected. Great plan

    Blair called for a new U.N. resolution covering humanitarian assistance as well as the administration and governance of Iraq.
    Let's hope the great US administration will forget its personal pride for a moment and listen this call for wisdom.

    Iain Duncan Smith, leader of the main opposition party, the Conservatives, said he would back the government line because it was "in the British interest."
    I love how Blair manages a semi consensus between the disciplined labourers and the conservatives. Too bad this consensus isn't shared by the British people.

    In a vote on a possible war last month, 122 members of Blair's own Labour Party in Parliament voted against the government.

    Blair suffered early setbacks with the resignation Monday of senior Cabinet minister Robin Cook, the House leader.

    Cook told a packed parliament he could not support a war without international agreement or domestic support. (Speech in full)

    Lord Hunt, a junior health minister in the House of Lords, the upper chamber, and Home Office Minister John Denham announced their resignations Tuesday.

    Duncan Smith suffered three resignations from his front bench, including shadow environment minister Jonathan Sayeed, shadow home affairs minister Humfrey Malins, and shadow health minister John Baron.
    Can anyone recall me what is the role of the shadow government ? I keep forgetting.

    But Labour's International Development Secretary Claire Short, who had threatened to resign if military action went ahead without U.N. backing, announced she will not leave her post.

    "I know I will be heavily criticized for my decision and many people will feel I have let them down. But I am doing what I think is right in the circumstances which we are now in," she said.
    I'm expecting some retaliation on her carreer anyways if Blair or his cronies politically survive.
    Last edited by Spiffor; March 18, 2003, 19:29.
    "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
    "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
    "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

    Comment


    • #3
      for voters

      During a speech before the vote, Blair said Iraqi President Saddam Hussein had failed to comply with previous U.N. resolutions, and he said he believed dictators and international terrorists come together to wreak havoc.

      He said he was concerned a dirty bomb might be set off in London or another major UK city.
      ...o-kay...

      Comment


      • #4
        WTG, Brits with brains.
        Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
        "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
        He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

        Comment


        • #5
          BTW, did you notice that bit in the CNN article about France helping in case of chemical warfare ?
          Levitte also said France would want the United States to go back to the United Nations and participate in a Security Council resolution that would include humanitarian aid and assistance for a post-Saddam Iraq.

          It reminds me of this bit in the UK parliament article :
          Blair called for a new U.N. resolution covering humanitarian assistance as well as the administration and governance of Iraq.

          Is that the great "compromise" France and Britain found ? Paris' attempts to compromise with London were pretty much spoken about yesterday here.
          "I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
          "I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
          "I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis

          Comment


          • #6
            WTG, Brits with brains.
            but no ears...
            Concrete, Abstract, or Squoingy?
            "I don't believe in giving scripting languages because the only additional power they give users is the power to create bugs." - Mike Breitkreutz, Firaxis

            Comment


            • #7
              Yeah. Having ears with no brains is much preferred.
              Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
              "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
              He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

              Comment


              • #8
                Apparantly, the US and Britain wish to impose Democracy, yet don't want to practice it.
                To us, it is the BEAST.

                Comment


                • #9
                  To quote the title of a Dead Kennedys album, this certainly seems to be 'bedtime for democracy'...Blair cannot be permitted to carry on like this against the will of the population!
                  Speaking of Erith:

                  "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Spiffor
                    BTW, did you notice that bit in the CNN article about France helping in case of chemical warfare ?
                    Levitte also said France would want the United States to go back to the United Nations and participate in a Security Council resolution that would include humanitarian aid and assistance for a post-Saddam Iraq.

                    It reminds me of this bit in the UK parliament article :
                    Blair called for a new U.N. resolution covering humanitarian assistance as well as the administration and governance of Iraq.

                    Is that the great "compromise" France and Britain found ? Paris' attempts to compromise with London were pretty much spoken about yesterday here.
                    I suppose the UN could endorse the American military government post victory and make IT legitimate. Of course, France would then have a major say in what happens and in what order. They probably will insist that debt service, especially in the debts owed France, take precedence over reconstruction.

                    I'm just a little too cynical about France.

                    But of course, Blair has every right to call for UN support. He, after all, is sending troops.
                    http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Provost Harrison
                      To quote the title of a Dead Kennedys album, this certainly seems to be 'bedtime for democracy'...Blair cannot be permitted to carry on like this against the will of the population!
                      Huh?

                      I suspect that Blair will be very popular after the war is over and the threat of Saddam is removed.

                      Does anyone recall what happened to John Major's popularity after the Gulf War?
                      http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                      • #12
                        Oh hell, this "he's ignoring polls, so he's anti-democracy" drivel is pure crap. We're talking about republics here -- if the voters don't like the policies of the people they elected, then they can vote them out of office come next election, easy peasy. If they want a referendum to be held every time an important issue comes up, then they can bloody well change the whole system of government.
                        <p style="font-size:1024px">HTML is disabled in signatures </p>

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by loinburger
                          Oh hell, this "he's ignoring polls, so he's anti-democracy" drivel is pure crap. We're talking about republics here -- if the voters don't like the policies of the people they elected, then they can vote them out of office come next election, easy peasy. If they want a referendum to be held every time an important issue comes up, then they can bloody well change the whole system of government.
                          A million-strong protest is a hint on behalf of the public that he is not acting according to their desires...that should be, by far, more than hint enough for referendum. As this makes quite clear, elected parliaments most certainly do not equal democracy!
                          Speaking of Erith:

                          "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sava
                            Apparantly, the US and Britain wish to impose Democracy, yet don't want to practice it.
                            In a Democracy, the majority win.
                            Just because you'd like to be in the majority, counts for nothing.
                            Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
                            "Hating America is something best left to Mobius. He is an expert Yank hater.
                            He also hates Texans and Australians, he does diversify." ~ Braindead

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              shouldn't the U.S. get a declaration of war from Congress too

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