GS FA thread 1

[Jon Miller]

I would rather give up trading rightds (they will boost our trade to further their position) and give up vassalship as part of the deal

( we will be vassals anyways as a small nation on the same content as a powerhouse, might as well make it so that we ahve to give up less territory while we are at it)

anyways, I don'/t like that idea at all

maybe we shuold have a vote

and ake sure that they know that there are seperate groups in Vox

with your offer we are gigving up more, with mine wie are giving up less but it soundsf like more

Jon Miller

[Beta]

Here is the response from GS. Jon - you had mentioned that you had chatted with them and told them that nothing was decided yet - that may have influenced their response somewhat. Not sure.

Here is the world situation as I know it now:

RP has one galley here - and will do a deal for iron. They are fully behind us - as much as they can be given the rising tensions on BoB.

GoW was set to send two galleys with troops - honoring their deal. I chatted with P32 and GF tonight regarding the situation. They are not in a position to send more significant numbers. They will be after a war on Bob. But who gainst whom is still unclear.

But - we can use the RP and GoW presence as leverage in negotiations with GS. GS will not know that more significant forces aren't coming. It may make them think twice.

So - what do folks want to do - and please - no one go chatting with anyone from GS until we are in agreement.

MSS' note:

GS and Vox Peace Negotiations
People of Vox:

We understand that your previous offer was pre-mature as you have not actually decided to offer it. Though promising, we did not discuss the offer in detail as it was not actually offered.

The people of Gathering Storm have a specific question to the people of Vox.

Are you willing to leave this continent for peace? We are putting together a proposal (which includes assistance from GS) but do not want to insult your honor by offering it without knowing it is welcome?

Answer in your own time.

Respectfully
ManicStarSeed of Gathering Storm

[Beta]

Also from MSS:

Peace Negotiation Clause
I wanted to include this in my last PM, but forgot.... Consider it in effect until we agree otherwise....


Please understand while we discuss possible peace, that hostilities in the game will continue unless and until a formal deal is reached.


Mss

[Beta]

Guys - I am think that maybe having me as the prime contact with GS may not be helpful. I was instrumental in our devious actions just prior to the war. The public notices were from me.

It may help to facilitate peace if someone took over the negotiations. Make me look the bad guy if need be.

What do you think? But if we are going to do it - we do it soon.

I also think we throw in engineering - our free tech for the next era - and an public nap into the next era.

[Jon Miller]

yah

that was what I was thinking

we need a clear voice with GS

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

are we going to fight or have peace?

and have peace with the points you sent in email with?

and I am sure that it is because of me that they said they were not debating the fine points

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

off the southern continent leaves us no iron, they could easily just finish us off later (if we were nto useful enough vassals)

I think that if we do make peace with them, it shuold be with the internal understanding that we try to set up there downfall, and that we always put Lego first in regards to who we are a vassal of

Jon Miller

[Beta]

Jon - agreed.

I think you should take over with GS. You cut the early deal with them on the border. You can be our voice of reason - The Voxian Dove.

I say contact them soon - with all the points mentioned so far:

- they get south Estonia
- we gift Dissidentville - I can do that this turn
- we do a public mea culpa - I will do that.
- we post a public non-agression pact with GS into the next era. Jon - you should do that - as part of the good cop-bad cop thing.
- we will rpovide engineering in approx 15 turns.
-we provide our free tech going into the next era.
-we will not attack Inchon
-we are allowed to safely evacuate all our troops from South Estonia (Jon - you will need to convince them that they will be needed on the continent. We are back to trying to break up the 3 team alliance and claim land there.)
- this includes Harry and his gang trapped on the mountains in the SE. As a show of good will - they will move down to tha plains where they will be easy targets. (they are all down to 1 and 2 HP's as it is). Also - they will need to move one worker to allow them to get by.
-and ask if they want to move Inchon - maybe two tiles south. They will still get the prime enhanced grassland tiles - but our cultural borders will not be overlapping.

Note that GS did offer peace back up this turn. I have the save - and will hold onto it for the full 24 hours so you can commence discussion.

I will send a quick note to MSS that I have been relieved of my duties as FAM to GS and that you will be in charge of the negotiations.

[Beta]

Some other thoughts for your negotaitions.

I will lay low in the public scene for awhile. Make it look like I have been relieved of most duties. Feel free to blame me and, say Diss and Witt, as the warmonger factions. Eli is on pretty good terms with Shiber - we should 'protect' him in this.

Also - make the point to GS that they are getting a big chunk of land - and free techs and a city. Also remind them that we did little or no damage to the GS infrastructure - other than their early GA and forcing them to switch production. But it did result in a second wonder for them - so I can't see how they can be too bent out of shape about this.

I still say it is the emotional issue over us catching them unawares, and blatantly breaking the original NAP. That is where the doves vs hawks discussion has got to occur. It was probably very useful now that you were not around much during the nasty times.

Anyways - good luck. For all of us.

[Jon Miller]

ok

I am here

Jon Miller

[Beta]

I also think we should tell GS we forfeit any access to iron until the new era. Tell them we will not be getting involved in any Bobian war. We do not need iron. It should satisfy them that they we mean no harm.

ALSO - and this is key - I have found out from Lego that RP is asking an arm and a leg (Theology and Chivalry) in return for RP giving us Iron. On the basis that sending us iron will irritate GS.

I do not want this to cost Lego anymore than it has. So - let's lay quietly - do our exodus, and work on building.

Jon - can you relay this asap, and I will tell Lego not to give in to RP's exorbitant demands.

[Jon Miller]

ok

Jon Miller

[Eli]

Shiber :

What an insulting offer your friend Jon sent us.

When will Vox realize that it has lost the war and must behave accordingly?
When will Vox understand that by signing peace, we are giving up our chance of securing the continent to ourselves?

My team doesn't support that proposition anymore. We think that we can defeat all of your forces shortly. In fact, we believe that we can do it much faster than you think.

[Beta]

Yowzer.

Looks like they are missing a few points. Yes - we recognize that we have lost the war.

And that it may not be in their best interest to get the entire continent. The rest of the world is wary of them as it is - imagine if they had the entire continent.

So - I propose Jon push on with the negotiations. Add the no iron clause.

And we go public with our offer - which I thought was fairly reasonable on our part. If you agree - I will start preparing a Vox public announcement. I will note the move of our immortals to the plains - and the fact that we did not assault Inchon last turn.

And - We start implementing the exodus plan.

And we set up a perimeter defense around north estonia and stack all pikemen and catapults into Elipolis.

And we make them fight for Dissidentville. And we raze it before they get it.

[Jon Miller]

yes

Jon Miller