Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Treatmeant of workers in Socialist States

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #61
    Originally posted by SnowFire
    Are you suggesting that they let the terorists go free? Surely you must know of all the bombings and other terrorist attacks in the Xinjiang province.

    Ah yes, that's the name, I'm always hesitant when talking about China because it's easy to mess up similar but different names (Like the good old Shansi province right next to the Shanxi, or something similarly close...). And of course I'm not in favor of terrorism. It's just that from what I know, the government over there has something a little stronger than TIPS and the Office of Homeland Security in place to enforce the law- they've just been afraid of international scorn if they used it.
    You mean something like a social security account? Everybody needs to register an account in order to receive social benefits, things such as public education. Law enforcement uses this information to help tracking down criminals and the like. AFAIK, however, there's no racial profiling.

    Originally posted by SnowFire
    Now that the States is clamping down (something I'm not a huge fan of, mind), the PRC doesn't look so bad doing their version of clamping down. The point is, you guys were already farther down that path.

    Btw, you do know that TIPS was just an idea that was defeated, right? Politicians were afraid of, among other things, the will of the voters. Maybe being able to vote isn't such a bad idea after all.
    Thing is, it was worse in the PRC before, and it wasn't as bad in the US. So the PRC has been progressing, and the US has been regressing, sorry to say.
    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by Sava
      Remember, Kathy Lee's product line was being made in Central America/South America by kids in sweatshops.
      Yeah, I remember. He took that out of context I'm sure. It just seemed funny the way he did it.
      "When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
      "All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
      "Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran Siddiqui

      Comment


      • #63
        The meaning of the word is the private ownership of the means of production.


        If you really think that China has private ownership of the means of production then you have absolutely no clue.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
          The meaning of the word is the private ownership of the means of production.


          If you really think that China has private ownership of the means of production then you have absolutely no clue.
          Imran, how often do you argue from your other end?
          (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
          (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
          (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

          Comment


          • #65
            Yes, I know you are a China apologist, but when the government has significant shares of means of production, I fail to see how you can state the country has private ownership of the means of production.

            Though I'm not sure that many Chinese apologists would consider the country's economy to be capitalist.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

            Comment


            • #66
              Imran,

              Read something about China that has happened in the last 10-15 years.
              "When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
              "All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
              "Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran Siddiqui

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                Yes, I know you are a China apologist, but when the government has significant shares of means of production, I fail to see how you can state the country has private ownership of the means of production.
                Just because a country has state-owned enterprises doesn't exclude the existence of private companies. Your logic seems a bit faulty here.

                Stop editing your post when I am replying to it
                (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

                Comment


                • #68
                  Imran, especially when from what I can see the abuses being documented occured in the private sector.

                  The existence of foremen who are contracted for a project and are responsible for paying their crew seems to indicate a privately-run construction firm.
                  12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                  Stadtluft Macht Frei
                  Killing it is the new killing it
                  Ultima Ratio Regum

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Read something about China that has happened in the last 10-15 years.


                    Sorry, I didn't read about them selling ALL of their state owned enterprises, or even half of them away.

                    Just because a country has state-owned enterprises doesn't exclude the existence of private companies.


                    Read the definition: private ownership over the means of production. This can only mean that private ownership over the means of production MUST be at the least over 50%.

                    Just because you have a few capitalist industries doesn't make you a capitalist country, just like having a few socialist organizations doesn't make you into a socialist country.

                    China is moving towards capitalism, but isn't there yet.
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      "being able to vote is not the sole indicator of whether a country is democratic or not."

                      Actually it is. In a democratic government, the people have the right to choose their leaders. The Chinese people can't


                      "Stop going around in circles. I have already shown that the article in the OP cannot be verified. Anything else?"

                      Yes, the second article. And are you suggesting the first article is made up? They did have a name, and the washington post is considered a reputable newspaper.

                      "AFAIK, however, there's no racial profiling. "

                      So Han get treated the same as Uighurs?

                      "
                      Don't wake him up, he's in his own little world of dreams. I can tell he has never been to the Third World to look at the sweatshops and child labour. "

                      No sweatshops in China!? You think all the stuff in the US with the "Made in China" labels in the US the workers are in non-sweatshops conditions!?
                      "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                      "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Imran, especially when from what I can see the abuses being documented occured in the private sector.


                        Expansion of capitalist reforms result in certain problems. The existance of those problems do not indicate a capitalist economic system.

                        China isn't socialist right now either. They are best called a mixed system, similar to, but having a little more state control than Scandinavian economies.
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Imran,

                          It's the market and the private ownership of capital that is causing the crisis with labor in China. Those are the tools that the Chinese are using to mobilize their workforce.
                          "When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
                          "All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
                          "Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran Siddiqui

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Mixed economy is what everyone has Imran. We have it here too. What is your point?
                            "When you ride alone, you ride with Bin Ladin"-Bill Maher
                            "All capital is dripping with blood."-Karl Marx
                            "Of course, my response to your Marx quote is 'So?'"-Imran Siddiqui

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              So you are saying that crisis with labor due to private ownership of capital doesn't occur in mixed economies such as Sweden? I'm not sure many people would call Sweden 'capitalist'. Though I disagree with the majority that refer to them as 'socialist'.

                              Actually, it seems that the introduction of capitalist reforms is the problem, because the society hasn't totally adapted.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                                Read something about China that has happened in the last 10-15 years.


                                Sorry, I didn't read about them selling ALL of their state owned enterprises, or even half of them away.

                                Just because a country has state-owned enterprises doesn't exclude the existence of private companies.


                                Read the definition: private ownership over the means of production. This can only mean that private ownership over the means of production MUST be at the least over 50%.

                                Just because you have a few capitalist industries doesn't make you a capitalist country, just like having a few socialist organizations doesn't make you into a socialist country.

                                China is moving towards capitalism, but isn't there yet.
                                Imran, Canada's economy is ~55% public sector and 45% private sector. Does this actually mean, in your view, that Canada is a socialist country?

                                If so, then the only capitalist country in the G7 must be the US, since Canada is less socialised than Italy, France etc. and just a bit more so than the UK.
                                12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                                Stadtluft Macht Frei
                                Killing it is the new killing it
                                Ultima Ratio Regum

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X