Are Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest RPGs?

[Felch]

Not to pick just those two series out, but they are the big ones coming out of Japan.

Now to make clear one thing - I enjoy playing them. Final Fantasy games and the Dragon Quest titles are some of my old school favorites, and they've maintained pretty well over the years.

However, compared to actual role playing games, both pen and paper and computer RPGs, these lack the essence of player control. In Final Fantasy you have no option to do anything outside of the script. Compare this to PnP where infinite options exist limited only by your imagination, or by CRPGs like Fallout and Planescape: Torment where a multitude of paths exist, and where consequences also exist for your actions, Final Fantasy seems to be little more than an adventure game with some cosmetic RPG aspects.

Experience points and swords are not what makes an RPG. It's the ability to decide the fate of your character, and to play a role that makes an RPG.

Just curious if anybody shares that opinion, or if there are any dissenting comments.

[Sava]

While you may not like the "experience points and swords" aspects of certain RPG's, you can't simply exclude them summarily from that category because of your distaste for them. I personally don't like RPG's, BTW.

And before the newer hardware and processing capabilites, RPG's were limited by their system capabilities. And some games, like you said, are simply just following a script. But in those types of games, there's often only one ending action... one way to win anyways. And I think that going through a scripted puzzle is just as much an RPG as going through a completely interactive world.

[Static Universe]

Never played Dragon Quest, but I do consider Final Fantasy to be an RPG. Think of it as Dungeons and Dragons with only one module and a handful of precreated character.

I don't think character creation or story diversity are absolutely necessary components of an RPG, but they are nice add-ons.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Sava
While you may not like the "experience points and swords" aspects of certain RPG's, you can't simply exclude them summarily from that category because of your distaste for them. I personally don't like RPG's, BTW.

They don't belong in the category in the first place. Stats and equipment have nothing to do with roleplaying and, if anything, they only make it less of a roleplaying game.

Same goes for linear "story RPGs" those are adventure games, not role playing games.

[Felch]

Osweld understands what I'm saying.

My point isn't meant to criticize the fun factor or Final Fantasy, but rather the ability to play a role. While I like the stats and equipment in RPGs, he's right that they aren't really needed.

As far as technology goes, FF seems to be even more tightly scripted now than ever. It's like a semi-interactive movie, where you play a role, but can't break out of the script to do anything more than kill some super-ultra-mega secret boss.

[Drake Tungsten]

Of course Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are RPG's.

[Static Universe]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Of course Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are RPG's.

I agree. just because the roles and story are somewhat limited does not make them any less of an RPG.*




* Okay, very very limited in FF's case.

[Kc7mxo]

Final Fantasy forces you to play a role, therefore, you're roleplaying.

[Sava]

You guys realize that RPG's really started with D&D. And that game is all about experience points and swords, etc.

of all the things to argue about

[Unspeakable Horror]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo
Final Fantasy forces you to play a role, therefore, you're roleplaying.

But then any game that forced you to play a role would be RPG (Max Paine, Starcraft, Civilization)

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Sava
You guys realize that RPG's really started with D&D. And that game is all about experience points and swords, etc.

of all the things to argue about

Actually, role playing games start when you're 8 years old and playing cowboys and indians. The purpose of a roleplaying game is to give you a base to act out your character with, and a set of rules to give form to the roleplaying so it isn't just "pow, you're dead", "no i'm not!".

D&D isn't about experience and swords, it is about whatever you make it.

[Grumbold]

I think its easier to say that there are Eastern and Western style CRPG's. Western style give you a plot structure, mandatory events and a sequence that must be followed. They usually allow you a lot of flexibility in your persona, your choice of companions and the side quests you investigate on your journey. You craft your own tale out of the many possible story elements provided by the writers. They originated on mainframes and are pretty much limited to PC's because of the complex stat, inventory, journal and spell management.

Eastern RPG's are far more story driven where you wear the persona scripted for you and are only allowed to follow the path scripted for the persona. Your job is to have fun doing the adventuring parts and finding the hidden special items while enjoying the story created for you to participate in. They are primarily found on (and suited to) consoles where everything can be driven by the game controller.

[Felch]

Then Eastern RPGs aren't really role playing games. Since you don't have any choices in how the role is played, they're adventure games instead, like King's Quest or Full Throttle. In those games you control a character, and "Your job is to have fun doing the adventuring parts and finding the hidden special items while enjoying the story created for you to participate in."

That's what I'm driving at here. The Eastern RPGs are essentially in a whole other genre, and games like Diablo go into that genre with them. They don't allow you to have any control over how the role is played, so they aren't really role playing games.

However, it is nice to see that so many people have opinions about this. I'm not trying to force people to see things my way, I'm just trying to clarify what I'm saying. What genre games are really isn't as important as whether or not they're fun.

[Grumbold]

Absolutely. In fact if you search Apolyton we've certainly done the "is Diablo a RPG just because some reviewers pidgeonhole it like that?" eloquently and at great length. I don't think its as easy to shrug off the Japanese games. They are fundamentally different but to the Japanese they are the true RPG's. Easier to just subcategorise them East and West

[Felch]

Originally posted by Grumbold
Absolutely. In fact if you search Apolyton we've certainly done the "is Diablo a RPG just because some reviewers pidgeonhole it like that?" eloquently and at great length. I don't think its as easy to shrug off the Japanese games. They are fundamentally different but to the Japanese they are the true RPG's. Easier to just subcategorise them East and West

Good point.