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  • Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment.

    Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment.

    Honourable Senators,

    Most of us are now convinced that sanctioning President and Ministers for wrongdoings by impeachment is not adapted to a one month term. But a longer term has already been rejected for quite reasonable reasons. Other forms of punishment, such as forbidding new candidacies, are considered as hurting more the community than punishing the culprits. The only way still opened is to be less radical and more realist.

    This is a proposal to adapt our Constitution to the above remarks:

    1. The impeachment applies only to the judges.
    2. The citizens can still raise a case against a President or a Minister in the frame of ordinary laws for personal detriment resulting from their action in official duties.
    3. The Senate has power to decide, not the removal, but the suspension from office for moderate but immediate measures of conservation, according to the following scale :
    - suspension for one turnchat (all other powers unchanged)
    - suspension of all powers (including turnchat if any) for 3 days
    - suspension of all powers (including turchats) for one week
    During the suspension, the President duties are performed by the VP

    The first two points require an amendment.

    The third could be seen as a simple adaptation of the powers granted to the Senate for controlling the Cabinet.
    Statistical anomaly.
    The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

  • #2
    Re: Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment.

    Originally posted by DAVOUT
    Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment.

    Honourable Senators,

    Most of us are now convinced that sanctioning President and Ministers for wrongdoings by impeachment is not adapted to a one month term. But a longer term has already been rejected for quite reasonable reasons. Other forms of punishment, such as forbidding new candidacies, are considered as hurting more the community than punishing the culprits. The only way still opened is to be less radical and more realist.

    This is a proposal to adapt our Constitution to the above remarks:

    1. The impeachment applies only to the judges.
    2. The citizens can still raise a case against a President or a Minister in the frame of ordinary laws for personal detriment resulting from their action in official duties.
    3. The Senate has power to decide, not the removal, but the suspension from office for moderate but immediate measures of conservation, according to the following scale :
    - suspension for one turnchat (all other powers unchanged)
    - suspension of all powers (including turnchat if any) for 3 days
    - suspension of all powers (including turchats) for one week
    During the suspension, the President duties are performed by the VP

    The first two points require an amendment.

    The third could be seen as a simple adaptation of the powers granted to the Senate for controlling the Cabinet.
    hi ,

    great go nuts , .......

    very soon we cant play anymore because we have to read first before every turn a twenty page list of things we can do and we cant , .....

    in real live the US con is no more then a small booklet with ten pages , ..... our con is allready approx. four times bigger , .....

    have a nice day
    - RES NON VERBA - DE OPRESSO LIBER - VERITAS ET LIBERTAS - O TOLMON NIKA - SINE PARI - VIGLIA PRETIUM LIBERTAS - SI VIS PACEM , PARA BELLUM -
    - LEGIO PATRIA NOSTRA - one shot , one kill - freedom exists only in a book - everything you always wanted to know about special forces - everything you always wanted to know about Israel - what Dabur does in his free time , ... - in french - “Become an anti-Semitic teacher for 5 Euro only.”
    WHY DOES ISRAEL NEED A SECURITY FENCE --- join in an exceptional demo game > join here forum is now open ! - the new civ Conquest screenshots > go see them UPDATED 07.11.2003 ISRAEL > crisis or challenge ?

    Comment


    • #3
      I think this is a good idea in general.

      During the suspension, the President duties are performed by the VP
      And if the VP is also impeached? Then does it go down the chain of command?
      Proud Member of the ISDG Apolyton Team; Member #2 in the Apolyton Yact Club.
      King of Trafalgar and Lord of all Isolationia in the Civ III PTW Glory of War team.
      ---------
      May God Bless.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Re: Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment.

        Originally posted by panag


        hi ,

        great go nuts , .......

        very soon we cant play anymore because we have to read first before every turn a twenty page list of things we can do and we cant , .....

        in real live the US con is no more then a small booklet with ten pages , ..... our con is allready approx. four times bigger , .....

        have a nice day


        Panag, I don't know where you get your numbers :P Just for the hell of it I decided to look it up. I found a complete copy of the US Constitution online and a copy of our own constitution. I selected all the text from each one and made it the same size (Arial 10) and removed all formatting.

        The US Constitution is 16 pages in length and contains 37,017 characters. The constitution of Apolytonia is only 8 pages in length (including amendments) and contains 21,563 characters. We have a ways to go my friend
        First Civ3DG: 3rd and 4th Term Minister of Public Works. | Second Civ3DG: First Term Vice President | ISDG: Ambassador in the Foreign Affairs Ministry | Save Apolyton! Kill the Off-Topic Forum!

        (04/29/2004) [Trip] we will see who is best in the next round ; [Trip] that is why I left this team ; [Trip] I don't need the rest of you to win |
        The solution to 1984 is 1776! | Here's to hoping that GoW's military isn't being run by MasterZen: Hehe! | DaveRocks! or something. ;)

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Re: Re: Prepoll discussion on a reform of impeachment.

          Originally posted by WhiteBandit




          Panag, I don't know where you get your numbers :P Just for the hell of it I decided to look it up. I found a complete copy of the US Constitution online and a copy of our own constitution. I selected all the text from each one and made it the same size (Arial 10) and removed all formatting.

          The US Constitution is 16 pages in length and contains 37,017 characters. The constitution of Apolytonia is only 8 pages in length (including amendments) and contains 21,563 characters. We have a ways to go my friend
          hi ,

          the little booklet , not online contains 641 words , .....

          have a nice day
          - RES NON VERBA - DE OPRESSO LIBER - VERITAS ET LIBERTAS - O TOLMON NIKA - SINE PARI - VIGLIA PRETIUM LIBERTAS - SI VIS PACEM , PARA BELLUM -
          - LEGIO PATRIA NOSTRA - one shot , one kill - freedom exists only in a book - everything you always wanted to know about special forces - everything you always wanted to know about Israel - what Dabur does in his free time , ... - in french - “Become an anti-Semitic teacher for 5 Euro only.”
          WHY DOES ISRAEL NEED A SECURITY FENCE --- join in an exceptional demo game > join here forum is now open ! - the new civ Conquest screenshots > go see them UPDATED 07.11.2003 ISRAEL > crisis or challenge ?

          Comment


          • #6
            maybe your talking about the decleration of indpendance
            Join the Civ4 SPDG and save the world one library at a time.
            Term 1 Minister of Finances in the Civ4 Democracy Game and current Justice in the Civ4 Democracy Game
            President of the Moderate Progressives of Apolyton in the Civ4 Democracy Game Aedificium edificium est Vires

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            • #7
              Panag,

              You are not obliged to participate in a prepoll discussion if you are not interested.

              If you participate, at least read the first port and try to understand it. Here we are attempting to simplify, not to add complexity.

              And also be sure that reference to the US constitution is not an argument; it does not demonstrate anything : we are no more in the US than in real life.

              I am always surprised to hear all those direct or indirect criticisms against a constitution voted triumphally at 92%. Did you read it before voting ?
              Statistical anomaly.
              The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Panzer32
                I think this is a good idea in general.



                And if the VP is also impeached? Then does it go down the chain of command?
                This unlikely, although not impossible, situation is not created by the reform.
                Statistical anomaly.
                The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

                Comment


                • #9
                  This idea seems more real to me than what the process is now. This amendment will be called to task on occasion.

                  As you likely realize I have real issues of accountability with current con. This would at least provid a first step in "dicipline" for offences without the court being always involved.

                  Mss
                  Remember.... pillage first then burn.

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