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Can a 13 year old girl be a lesbian- and if so, should she go to gym class?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Boris Godunov

    There's nothing in any modern society now that would entice a person who is heterosexual to dabble in homosexuality out of "coolness" or peer pressure.
    Oh, come on Boris! I'm not sure why Apolyton's gay posters are giving me such a hard time with this. There is a substantial "hipness" factor for girls to experiment with bisexuality. If this form of "coolness" didn't exist, there are many girls who would have otherwise never experimented in this manner. I'm sure that in your days of growing up this wasn't so, as this is quite a new phenomena. But this is a well-accepted trueism for the most part. This isn't some sort evil conspiracy to make homosexuality appear illegitimate or anything. As I said earlier, if anything this only proves sexuality to be a much more fluid thing. I think a lot of homosexuals feel the need, perhaps because of the persecution that they suffer, to maintain that being gay is something that is biologically set in stone and unchangeable. Therefore, they adamantly deny the presence of any sort of non-biological factor. This is perfectly understandable of course, but I am of the belief that sexuality can be best understood when both biological and societal factors are looked at objectively.
    http://monkspider.blogspot.com/

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    • #47
      I am sorry monkspider, but there isn't one bit of anything to incite girls to experiment with bisexuality. Nothing. Zippo. Nada. There is pressure and harassment against it.
      For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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      • #48
        Originally posted by monkspider
        Oh, come on Boris! I'm not sure why Apolyton's gay posters are giving me such a hard time with this.
        I wasn't giving you a hard time, I was expressing my opinion.

        There is a substantial "hipness" factor for girls to experiment with bisexuality.
        I have never, ever seen it. I think it's a myth gleaned from a few hollywood movies and general stereotypes. Homosexuality in teens is still vastly persecuted, not encouraged.

        If this form of "coolness" didn't exist, there are many girls who would have otherwise never experimented in this manner. I'm sure that in your days of growing up this wasn't so, as this is quite a new phenomena. But this is a well-accepted trueism for the most part. This isn't some sort evil conspiracy to make homosexuality appear illegitimate or anything. As I said earlier, if anything this only proves sexuality to be a much more fluid thing.
        Doing something out of "coolness" isn't always a motivation. I believe it is perfectly possible for a heterosexual to be attracted to someone of the same sex and experiment physically on a basis of sharing an intimate moment with someone whose personality and such attract them. All the straight men and women I know who experimented with gay sex did so secretly and quite furtively. You can't say they were being cool, because they didn't let anyone else know at the time.

        I think a lot of homosexuals feel the need, perhaps because of the persecution that they suffer, to maintain that being gay is something that is biologically set in stone and unchangeable. Therefore, they adamantly deny the presence of any sort of non-biological factor. This is perfectly understandable of course, but I am of the belief that sexuality can be best understood when both biological and societal factors are looked at objectively.
        Not sure whom you are addressing, but I certainly have never asserted homosexuality is purely biological. I believe there are many factors and have always stated so. All I am addressing in this thread is that I don't buy that there is any significant trend of peer pressure to dabble in homosexuality or coolness about being bisexual among youth in this country. It is something that is overwhelming frowned upon still, and even progressive parents will more often than not (understandably, though) react negatively to the idea their teenager might be gay.
        Tutto nel mondo è burla

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        • #49
          Oh, come on Boris! I'm not sure why Apolyton's gay posters are giving me such a hard time with this.
          Perhaps they're the only ones who see how patently ridiculous it is to be even talking about the "phenomenon" of "lipstick lesbians" and peer pressure making girls lesbians.

          I think in today's society more girls are open to experimentation, or for all we know girls experimented just as much 50 years ago but kept it completely private since it was such a social taboo.

          The whole argument of social pressure making girls lesbian or bi is just ridiculous, because even if their boyfriends would think it would be cool for them to be bi or something, I'm pretty damn sure everyone else around them thinks it would be far "cooler" if they were straight.

          In summary, while there may be pressure to be homosexual or bisexual, the pressure NOT to be homosexual or bisexual significantly outweighs that.
          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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          • #50
            If you go to the strip clubs (which I admit don't represent the real world) you can see the pressure for women to be lesbo. True they aren't real lesbians. But women who do dirty stuff with other women on stage will get more money.

            Granted in the real world that effect isn't that pronounced. But you hear stories all the time about girls experimenting in college. It is much more accepted for a girl to experiment than a guy. And I listen to dirty radio talk shows a lot. You'd be suprised how many guys want their girlfriends to do a threesome with another woman. And this includes having the guy watch while the girls go at it.

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            • #51
              and I'm suprised some ass munch didn't vote for expel. I put that option in there because I knew someone would vote for it. But it hasn't happened yet.

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              • #52
                Don't complain.
                "Love the earth and sun and animals, despise riches, give alms to every one that asks, stand up for the stupid and crazy, devote your income and labor to others, hate tyrants, argue not concerning God, have patience and indulgence toward the people, take off your hat to nothing known or unknown . . . reexamine all you have been told at school or church or in any book, dismiss whatever insults your own soul, and your very flesh shall be a great poem and have the richest fluency" - Walt Whitman

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                • #53
                  I honestly don't know monkspider is talking about when he says there is pressure for anyone to be homosexual/bisexual. In all of my school years I have observed no such thing and in fact school seems to be a pretty homophobic environment. Even in college there are still plenty of people who use the word "gay" as a synonym for something or someone that they see as bad.

                  I don't think this girl should be excluded from gym class, but I do think she should have to change seperately from the other girls.
                  "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

                  "I imagine the neighbors on your right are estatic." - Slowwhand

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                  • #54
                    all the groups I have been in (midwest and west coast) have had that pressure

                    and it is by both freinds and boyfreinds

                    and if everyone is asking them to, that is the definition of pressure

                    now, maybe it is not the case in the northeast, I don't know, I never went to school there

                    but there are areas/groups I know where the majority are Bi

                    so, you have me and Monkspider in the midwest and west coast, and you in the east coast that see something different

                    so maybe it is regional, but it doesn't stop it from existing where I and monkspider are

                    if social pressure could have made Boris (very much a homosexual) act straight for a portion of his life, how is it ahrd to beleive that social pressure can not make girls behave bi/lez, at least for a while?

                    Jon Miller
                    Jon Miller-
                    I AM.CANADIAN
                    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                    • #55
                      you say it is different because it is different where you are at

                      we are just saying how it is where we are at

                      Jon Miller
                      Jon Miller-
                      I AM.CANADIAN
                      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                      • #56
                        Well it's certainly not like that in California and western Canada.

                        Maybe you boys are just letting your imaginations get the best of you?
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Boris Godunov


                          I have never, ever seen it. I think it's a myth gleaned from a few hollywood movies and general stereotypes. Homosexuality in teens is still vastly persecuted, not encouraged.
                          we see it

                          I have heard (randomly while walking arround my college) girls say that they ahd sex with a girl just because their boyfreind wanted them to and she didn't want to

                          why did she do it than? because she was pressured by her boyfreind

                          now none of my close female freinds engage in sex with women, and neither my mom nor my sisters have told if they have (and to be honest, I did not ask and I don't want to know (but I do know that my younger sister, who I hung arround for a while, was asked to all the time by her (male) freinds and at least one boyfreind))

                          guys are pressured sometimes to (get pushed into bed with a Bi-guy and the like) but it is not as common

                          Jon Miller
                          Jon Miller-
                          I AM.CANADIAN
                          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                          • #58
                            guys are pressured sometimes to (get pushed into bed with a Bi-guy and the like) but it is not as common
                            Now that statement is absolutely wrong.... no way... maybe there is a little bit of pressure from some people for women to have sex with other women... but not for guys. Do you have any idea how much crap gay/bi guys get for being who they are?
                            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

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                            • #59
                              What I want to know is how anyone can compare any minute pressure to be bi/lesbian with the enormous pressure not to be...
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Asher
                                Well it's certainly not like that in California and western Canada.

                                Maybe you boys are just letting your imaginations get the best of you?
                                personal expereince, not imagination

                                (I have a female freind that hugs girls all the time and so on but I don't think she is bi, if I thought she was bit that would be my imagination; being with a girl that is having all the people arround her telling her to makeout with this other girl, that is experience)

                                Jon Miller
                                Jon Miller-
                                I AM.CANADIAN
                                GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                                Comment

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