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  • Natural city model

    We're talking about serious Civ revolutioning here.

    The city modelization in Civ always have been a representation (by a tile called "city"). And ressources around just stay as they are, + improvements. But look at New York and USA's East coast! Forests? Mines? Forget it. I guess there's nothing but the city between NY and Chicago or Washington. So it changes alot on many aspects:
    - tiles (forest to city, plains to city, etc.)
    - production (food's production isn't 30km outside NY's center...)
    - unit moves (to a certain extent)
    - moving troops on opponent's field
    - attacks on city
    - how the map looks


    So I would propose a way to arrange this. Of course, it implies to consider the growth of production by science, which is what permits such big cities (enough food, etc.).

    I would see possible to graphically simply show the city taking expansion, until it even reaches tiles around. Once a tile is touched, it is touched GRADUALLY, which means it will have only it's boarders with city, then more, more, more.... until its production is a entirely a city-type production (which will go up with the city beeing more dense/effective). It also means that the value of the center tile will see its value change through expansion (since it wont be only city form the beginning).


    EDIT: It's not only about a graphical issue but mainly the gameplay issue that's important here. Presently, the geographical expansion of cities isn't in Civ 3.
    Last edited by Trifna; December 5, 2002, 13:24.
    Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

  • #2
    I think there's a graphic mod for this (appearance only).
    The greatest delight for man is to inflict defeat on his enemies, to drive them before him, to see those dear to them with their faces bathed in tears, to bestride their horses, to crush in his arms their daughters and wives.

    Duas uncias in puncta mortalis est.

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    • #3
      You're right, Theseus. That genius, Snoopy (at least, I think it was him ) , came up with a graphics mod which turned all the railroaded tiles into suburban squares, and irrigated squares into farmhouses and barns and the like! It looked REALLY COOL!!!
      On this sort of subject, though, although I like what they've done regarding borders and luxuries/strategic resources (ie all cities connected to capital get access to all luxuries/resources in border), I was hoping that they could have done a similar thing for production/food and commerce. For instance, lets say you have an industrialized city with about 20 shields/turn, then a fraction of that production (say 10-20%) should be available to all citiies connected to your capital). The same with food-so that cities with food a food surplus of 4, for instance, should be able to contribute 1 or 2 "bushels" of food to every city in the empire (But, say, only if they are even or in famine conditions). This would, in my opinion, reflect the manner in which cities are known to specialize in real life-with some being industrial heartlands and others being breadbaskets, with yet another type being financial centres (Like NYC for instance)
      Anyway, probably too much to hope for in Civ3, maybe Civ4 .

      Yours,
      The_Aussie_Lurker.

      Comment


      • #4
        Slight Update

        Sorry, it wasn't Snoopy (Though he does some FANTASTIC graphics!!). The two graphics mods which come to mind are BlueO and Rikk's "The Burbs" Graphics Mods. There is an irrigation Mod by Zeb_Fisher, but I can't seem to find it .
        Anyway, here are the links, if you'd like:

        BlueO: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=40057

        "The Burbs": http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=51022

        Hope this helps.

        Yours,
        The_Aussie_Lurker.

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        • #5
          Ever played the chinese on one of the suburb graphics? I know two of them, and in the other, by 1900 the world is cowered with bluish skyscrapers (and a dozen pyramids and pentagons...), making my units virtually invisible. (To me, naturally...)
          I've allways wanted to play "Russ Meyer's Civilization"

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          • #6
            All this is only graphic, the core is stil the gameplay. Any of you would try to push the concept further?
            Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

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            • #7
              Re: Slight Update

              Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
              There is an irrigation Mod by Zeb_Fisher, but I can't seem to find it .
              Here it is, along with a modification I did for Plains.
              Attached Files

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              • #8
                Thanks Aussie, the graphics sound kickarse.

                This thread reminds me of how impressive it would be to play CTP2 and watch hydroponic farms, auto fisheries and mega mines slowly take over the landscape. It truly had a revolutionary feel, like being in a science fiction movie. I wish Civ3 had more of that. But that's the problem with city specific production. CTP was definently ahead with their "integrated nation" system.

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                • #9
                  Nice to see someone making the first comment about that thread... May I propose to get to the subject and discuss the principal thread?

                  Someone interested?....... I'd reaaaallly want to discuss it...

                  /me hears the wind in the canyons [of his keyboard]
                  Last edited by Trifna; December 5, 2002, 13:01.
                  Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

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                  • #10
                    Sorry Trifna, I certainly hadn't intended to Hijack this thread, I guess I just misunderstood your intention, and didn't realise that you were talking about MORE than just graphic issues (sorry!)
                    If it helps, I was considering the following ideas for a Industrial/Modern age Mod, once I get my hands on PtW. Basically, I intend to have "improvements" such as Suburbs (reduces corruption, increased commerce and production-increased pollution and possibly reduced culture??), Central Business District (again increased commerce, reduced corruption), Industrial Zone (Increased pollution, increased pollution-requires factory), intracity road network (increased commerce, increased production, increased pollution). I also had ideas for a city railway network, highways and freeways! I also want the ability to create improvements, in a city, that grant production and/or food bonuses in surrounding tiles, in the same way that harbours and offshore platforms do for coastal tiles. This might help me to reflect, again in an abstract fashion, the movement of goods and services between cities, and might even allow cities to specialise in finance, manufacturing or food production.
                    Beyond that, I had hoped that a civs cities which are connected by the trade network, and are on the same continent, should have pooled commerce, production and food from all of their cities. It should then be possible to "dole" these out to cities in your trade network AS THEY NEED THEM, and any excess could even be included in the international resource trade which currently already exists in the game.
                    Failing that, I'd like to give roads and rail a bonus to food, production and commerce to that tile-to reflect the intra-civ trade of raw materials etc. However, I don't want to do that until I'm able to give railways a maintainance cost, to prevent abuse by player and AI alike!! Anyway, those are just a few thoughts on this subject, I hope that gets debate going!

                    Yours,
                    The_Aussie_Lurker.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      hehe Thx Aussie

                      I guess such a mod would be the beginning to a more natural economic and domestic system. For now, megapols are still exploiting farms around, they don't expand geographically and the regions aren't specialized in the way they're built.
                      Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

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                      • #12
                        Hmm I don't like it
                        I will never understand why some people on Apolyton find you so clever. You're predictable, mundane, and a google-whore and the most observant of us all know this. Your battles of "wits" rely on obscurity and whenever you fail to find something sufficiently obscure, like this, you just act like a 5 year old. Congratulations, molly.

                        Asher on molly bloom

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Datajack Franit
                          Hmm I don't like it
                          Datajack, this isn't really constructive. The point is knowing why it's not good or why it'd be good. Just knowing if someone likes or not = useless
                          Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Trifna
                            Datajack, this isn't really constructive. The point is knowing why it's not good or why it'd be good. Just knowing if someone likes or not = useless
                            Trifna, some of "older" apolytoner here probably saw plenty of radical suggestions about cities model at The List v.2.0 (browse Apolyton archive for it).

                            This by no means must be intended as a way to stop you suggesting change, but:
                            - I humbly suggest you read old suggestions, just to refine yours and consider the opportunity to underline difference.
                            - I suppose for Civ/PTW is way too late for radical, and frankly I hope Civ saga will end here. We need new blood. IMHO
                            "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
                            - Admiral Naismith

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                            • #15
                              Ok, thx for informing me
                              Stil would have hoped someone would want to discuss it but I seem to be the only maniac speaking of Civ 4 here

                              I too would hope some new blood, but I dunno if anyone would compet with Civ franchise. Maybe they'll refresh themselves...

                              About the List, I read quite a part of it, but it's been some time and doesn't close discussions. But I'll do as you say, comparing... when I'll have some time. Now I declare this thread dead 'cuz not enough air.
                              Go GalCiv, go! Go Society, go!

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