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  • ancient age mod

    I'm just learning how to make mods and scenerios. i've always found the ancient gameplay sorely wanting. This is my favourite period (I've yet to play a CTP game much past musketeers/cannon) and i'd like to create a senerio with mods that treats it in more depth.

    I've got several ideas, but i'm starting out trying to make warefare more realistic. Right now i'm trying to make a succession of units that will better represent the evolution of warefare up to the use of gunpowder. I don't want to have to deal with adjusting much past the ancient age, so i've got to stick with attack/defence values from 1-3. the first thing that comes to mind is can I use fractional values? the warrior (who i think should have a DEFINATE advantage over non combat units) has an attack/defence of 10/10 in the settings; can i make that 15/15?

    Some problems i want to address:

    1) It should of course be possible to take cities with ancient units. If I remember my history correctly, there was a city or two that was successfully taken before the cannon. :P
    2) Walls. Somethings got to be done about walls. The best option would be to put in a new city improvement, an early wall that stops slavers, but has a much smaller defensive bonus, and have the current wall improvement come much later. Is this possible? Is the image of the current wall something editable?
    3) Speaking of slavers, i do NOT like the way they're handled. I'd rather see a non-stealth combat unit, as I don't think cities woke up to find a good percentage of their citisenry missing without knowing how or why. The slaver might be a phalanx equivilent unit with the special forces flag, more expensive both to produce and maintain, but I don't think it should have stealth.
    4) I think it should be alot easier to get map information. Information about the world at large comes as a matter of course in building a kingdom, imho. Any ideas on how to acomplish this would be helpful.
    5) Trade is what makes kingdoms great. I'd like to make cities more dependant on trade in order to prosper. To do this, and to get a better and faster map of the world, i think a fast and cheap diplomat is in order. The noble from CD's mod will do nicely, but i think i'll let it be produced by any government eccept anarchy and tyrany, until the diplomat is available. A few wandering nobles would give a good partial but informitive map, which seems appropriate for the ancient age.
    6) We need more barbarians. :P I've always played it on 'Barbarian Hordes', but this doesn't give near enough threat to warrant a desire to keep all cities well defended. When you can take most of your army on expedition, and the AI civs keep each city defended, they don't stand a chance.

    7) Units. I can't make 3d images, and there aren't many custom ones to choose from yet (but there are some very good ones). Except for a chatiot, I think I can deal with what's available tho.

    I know a bit about mesopotamian history, and a bit less about the ancient history of the near east in general. I'd like to hear some comments on what i'm about to say about units, and also any input on the how the evolution of warfare in asia and other parts of the world compare. For starters, as i said, i think warriors should be stronger than non-combat units. The first armies should also have some kind of ranged unit, as bows and slings were used very far into prehistoric times. Tom Davies slinger unit will do nicely.

    The next step should be the formation of an actual army unit, the first of which were probably spearmen. These should take the role of the current phalanx, as defenders. Tom Davies also made a spiffy spearman unit (thankyou Tom! :P), altho it's much later in appearence, it'll do nicely. I think the current pikeman fills up any place an 11th century saxon will want.

    The bronze age brought an improvement in weapons. The phalanx (and I'm considering the Civ phalanx unit more of a Sumerian/early type than a greek type) wasn't a soley defensive unit, so should be a step ahead of the warrior and spearman in attack and about equal to the spearman in defence. Sumer (i still am DEEPLY offended Sumer wasn't included in the default civilization list. How can a game about civilization, which deals with the beginning of civilization, NOT INCLUDE SUMER?!?!? :P) used primitive chariots, pulled by onager, durring the early bronze age. I'd DEARLY love two chariot units, and early and a late one. I'll have to use the mounted archer here, for the primitive chariot. This unit should have a weak ranged attack, but a good asault attack as well, probably the same as a phalanx. These early chariots were probably used to hold bowmen and javelin throwers, so were usable at range, and in the thick of fighting. They would of course be much more expensive than the phalanx.

    Later chariots, driven by horses, were the most powerful units available in the near east for several hundred years. They also were used as platforms for ranged weapons, as well as for assault, and should have a ranged attack. There is no fully 3d charriot available yet, so I'm going to use the Horse Archer from cd's mod.

    Chatiots were expensive, and part of the reason they became obsolete was their cost. Improvements in armour (to protect against missles launched by the fast chariots), tactics, and weapons (a cut-and-thrust sword replacing the spear), and the introduction of cavalry (with the invention of improved reigns), were both much less expensive to field.

    Tom Davies again saves the day with his swordsman unit, which is a good replacement for the phalanx, and a beautiful heavy cavalry unit. Bringing the archer in at this point seems a good way to field an improved ranged attack without the cost of a chariot.

    I'd like to talk here about the use of mounted units in the Civ games. They've always been used to bring an army to a distant place quickly. This is not how they were used historically for the most part tho. Their speed was used in battle, but most armies marched at the rate of the foot soldier. Mounted units in Civ are also good for being able to manouver in preperation for battles, something it would be nice to be able to do with other units. So i'm going to increase the movement of normal units to two probably, and mounted units (aside from the early chariot) should be 3 (why does a knight get 4?, I don't see any reason to give it more movement than othe rmounted units).

    8) The legion. I've got to read up on this some, but i believe it was an integrated army, and should have ranged attack, and be special forces, because they were always training. I think they should be much more powerful than CTP has them now. The should also be expensive. :P

    This is about where my current knowledge ends. I'm don't know enough about how knights and later infantry trroops and things like longbow archers should figure in.

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    I haven't learned enough about what in CTP is configurable yet, but i'm thinking a neat idea would be to incorporate nomadic civilizations somehow. I'm thinking along the lines of a civ with mobile cities. these civs would have to have there own tech tree, and maybe once they discovered something like agriculture, the mobile city (something limited in size, but productive enough to be able to pose a threat if they move into your lands) would become obsolete and they'd settle into normal mode.

    I'd surely like to incorporate more units, elephant and camel units come to mind.

    I don't understand how hit points and firepower figure in to things, and I need to know how CTP resolves battles. Is there any element of randomness, so that there's a chance less powerful units can defeat more powerful ones? This would certainly make things more interesting.

    I'd like to hear from anyone else interested mainly in the ancient age. thankyou. :P




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    just can't fix this brokn machine
    just can't fix this brokn machine

  • #2
    Get Wes' Med Mod. He has already done everything you are talking about. If he hasn't done it, such as Nomadic tribes, it is because it is not possible in CtP.

    Additionally, you should read through all the forums and archives here. They contain lots of valuable info.
    Don,
    CtPMaps (Hosted by Apolyton)

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