Firaxis suck Infogrames suck Civ3 sucks

zulu9812 · September 21, 2002, 16:12

I've always thought of myself as a supporter of Firaxis when it comes to Civ3. Many times I've leaped to their defense when the like of Coracle were having a go at them. But I'm beginning to think he might be right. This is why:

Firaxis - For lying to us. Promised us multi-player in the box. Didn't get it. Promised us multi-player as a patch in March. Didn't get it. Promised us scenario creating in PTW. Not getting it.

Infogrames - For not providing international support. They think it's fine to release the beta that was Civ3 in Germany, but they don't think it's fine to provide much needed updates there. Or indeed, other countries.

Civ3 - For not having scenarios. And as far as PTW goes what's the point of having WW2 units when we can only create a WW2 scenario where Germany might go to war?

Apologies if this sounds like Coracle, but I'm rather upset right now. And I bet the aircraft range is still hard-coded to a max of 8.

rob.derosa · September 21, 2002, 16:18

Ahh, but you don't know (exactly) what is going to be included in PTW, there could be everything you wanted and more, you just dont know yet.

Just wait for the game, you knwo you're going to buy it anyway

Oh, you forgot, under Fraxis: promised us multiplayer in PTW, recieved!

WarpStorm · September 21, 2002, 16:21

First off, why do you believe what any software developer says months and months ahead of time? In every software product I've heard of, either features get cut or the product is delayed. It's just the way it goes. Deal with it.

Don't buy PTW, if it isn't what you want. If you end up buying it knowing what you know now, it's your own fault if you are unhappy with it. You now know what it's going to be like. You can make an informed decision.

To end this on a good note, all bombard ranges can be editted.

Oh, BTW, Mike, Barry, Soren, I still like you guys. You're great. I was speaking about software developers in general.

rob.derosa · September 21, 2002, 16:23

Originally posted by WarpStorm
First off, why do you believe what any software developer says months and months ahead of time? In every software product I've heard of, either features get cut or the product is delayed. It's just the way it goes. Deal with it.

Don't buy PTW, if it isn't what you want. If you end up buying it knowing what you know now, it's your own fault if you are unhappy with it. You now know what it's going to be like. You can make an informed decision.

To end this on a good note, all bombard ranges can be editted.

Good reasons, I know i'm gonna get PTW, I dont care if it has extra scenarios etc, it's just the multiplayer support!

WarpStorm · September 21, 2002, 16:30

FWIW, I plan on buying it based on what will be in it.

Nubclear · September 21, 2002, 16:32

I'm not going to get PtW. Multiplayer isn't a compelling enough reason to spend 30-50 on a 50 dollar, well, beta.

Instead, I'm saving up for RoN

Or whatever game may come out in October (ron is early 2003?).

vmxa1 · September 21, 2002, 16:46

I will buy and I do not play MP. Even if all the complains are valid. I will concur with the notion that saying you will provide MP in a patch and then making it in an addon is wrong, but that is what they did with civ2 and it was no surprise to me. Anyway they may yet go the way 3DO did with Homm4 and MP. It came out as an addon and was also offered as a patch, so it could still happen.

player1 · September 21, 2002, 16:58

Originally posted by zulu9812
Promised us multi-player as a patch in March.

No, they DIDN'T.
They said it would be patch OR expansion.

Promised us scenario creating in PTW. Not getting it.

You GOT it.
In Civ3 1.29f patch.
It's crude, but you can make many nice scenarios with it.

Civ3 - For not having scenarios. And as far as PTW goes what's the point of having WW2 units when we can only create a WW2 scenario where Germany might go to war?

Making scenarios is expensive.
If they could made scenraios in the box, it would probably have MP support and all other things from start.

As for PtW, some diplomacy things are in the wish-list (read: some PtW patch or next XP).

Jon Shafer · September 21, 2002, 18:03

Zulu, look at warpstorm and my own explanation in the CFC thread for an explanation on some of those problems. I don't much feel like copy-pasting things.

And though I am a devout defender of Firaxis (but not Civ 3

), I don't see myself buying PtW anymore. I would have gotten it for a perfect new scenario editor, but I don't have the time to play MP anymore, and new civs/graphics are something to be sneezed at, IMHO.

On an unrelated but cool note, warpstorm is correct. Firaxis (Soren or Mike? I forget) stated that the aircraft range can now be up to the maximum diameter of the map. So in other words, it can be 1 to any number you can think of.

Tamerlin · September 21, 2002, 18:33

I can understand your disappointment Zulu9812, many game manufacturer are not providing us with what we expect, but you should admit our expectations were rather high as far as Civ3 is concerned. We were waiting for this game for a very long time.

I agree with you, MP should have been included in the first CD, no game should be published without this feature even if I'am not interested in it.

I have myself been very disappointed by Civ3 in spite of some very good features, I really don't like at all the way the AI is cheating (I'am only speaking about the few known cheats) and the behavior of this same AI. I won't play Civ3 again until the behavior of the AI is changed be it by a modder (I don't think it is possible) or by Infogrammes (I don't think they will spend a single dollar for this).

Actually, I consider Civ3 to be a good game which does not suit my tastes.

NeoStar · September 21, 2002, 19:34

Originally posted by Trip
On an unrelated but cool note, warpstorm is correct. Firaxis (Soren or Mike? I forget) stated that the aircraft range can now be up to the maximum diameter of the map. So in other words, it can be 1 to any number you can think of.

Oh my God

Damn it! This makes it much harder to ignore...

jdd2007 · September 21, 2002, 22:40

*yawn*

every criticism of firaxis, civ3 and infogrames is easily addressed. i just dont feel like arguing with you. nothing will change you peoples minds. i will just say one thing:

firaxis doesnt owe you anything, whether they "promised" things to the future buyers of civ3, or not. likewise, you dont have to buy their products! simple as that! apolyton civ3 forums are FOR civ3, not AGAINST it. so shut the h-ell up and rant somewhere else. dont waste peoples time. im tired of you a-ssholes who have nothing better to do than talk about how this sucks. so does this. so does this. man, i am sick to death of you. just leave and dont come back here again. dont buy the game. persuade your friends not to buy the game. but dont rant HERE ok?

Sheik · September 21, 2002, 22:54

The scenario thing bugs me the most. Otherwise I haven't felt the effects of some of the other things you have mentioned because I live in the US. I hope that updates continue after PTW is released and we get some of things that we want.

Alex · September 21, 2002, 23:06

asleepathewheel · September 21, 2002, 23:40

Originally posted by jdd2007
*yawn*

every criticism of firaxis, civ3 and infogrames is easily addressed. i just dont feel like arguing with you. nothing will change you peoples minds. i will just say one thing:

firaxis doesnt owe you anything, whether they "promised" things to the future buyers of civ3, or not. likewise, you dont have to buy their products! simple as that! apolyton civ3 forums are FOR civ3, not AGAINST it. so shut the h-ell up and rant somewhere else. dont waste peoples time. im tired of you a-ssholes who have nothing better to do than talk about how this sucks. so does this. so does this. man, i am sick to death of you. just leave and dont come back here again. dont buy the game. persuade your friends not to buy the game. but dont rant HERE ok?

Good Show!!!!!

(I agree with you)

Ethelred · September 21, 2002, 23:45

Originally posted by zulu9812
I've always thought of myself as a supporter of Firaxis when it comes to Civ3. Many times I've leaped to their defense when the like of Coracle were having a go at them. But I'm beginning to think he might be right. This is why:

Well actually its because you have been listening to Coracles mostly false claims. Considering how much help you have given others its odd that you are going along with it.

Firaxis - For lying to us. Promised us multi-player in the box. Didn't get it. Promised us multi-player as a patch in March. Didn't get it. Promised us scenario creating in PTW. Not getting it.

I have seen that claim about multiplayer many times. Not just from Coracle. NO ONE HAS EVER SHOWN these alleged promises. Especially not Coracle. That they hoped to get those things seemed clear. That a lot of fans managed to convince themselves that it was actually promised is also clear.

I KNOW they never promised multiplayer in a patch. They evaded the question or ignored it every single time it came up. They said they didn't want to even mention things that they would to do because of this sort of fanatasy that if someting is mentioned in passing that somehow that magicaly becomes an iron clad binding promise. I don't blame Firaxis at all for clamming up after all this garbage that has been thrown at them for promises they never made.

As for scenarios they seem to be going have them in PTW. Maybe not with all the bells and wistles you want. The fact is scenarios are presently possible. Not the kind of purely war game scenarios that were available in Civ II eventually but scenarios nontheless.

Infogrames - For not providing international support. They think it's fine to release the beta that was Civ3 in Germany, but they don't think it's fine to provide much needed updates there. Or indeed, other countries.

Well that one sure does suck. I have no respect for them at all. One more reason the French deserve to be pink in Civ III. Puke green brown with yellow highlights would be OK too.

Civ3 - For not having scenarios. And as far as PTW goes what's the point of having WW2 units when we can only create a WW2 scenario where Germany might go to war?

Go play a war game. This is Civ. I never understood the desire to force fit Civ II into pretending its a grognard game. It was not fit for the job and no amount of tinkering was going to do it.

At least you can have flat maps in PTW. Doughnuts too if you feel the need.

Apologies if this sounds like Coracle, but I'm rather upset right now. And I bet the aircraft range is still hard-coded to a max of 8.

Yes you sound like Coracle. He too managed to get some of his complaints right.

No one is denying that InFROGames messed things up. French companies came into the US bought up a bunch of game houses and they have done little right by the fans from what I can see. Maybe it was mostly bad timing as the market went down. However considering the paucity of top notch PC games from France I would have to think the economy had less to do with than the French companies did.