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Was the Germanic tribes victory over the Roman armies really a victory?

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  • Was the Germanic tribes victory over the Roman armies really a victory?

    Was the Germanic tribes victory over the Roman armies really a victory, or a defeat? Did it really pay of for the germans and the world?


    We're having this discussion at Historic Battles , what do you think?
    If you want to discuss topics on History, with an emphasis on the military aspect.
    Visit: http://www.historic-battles.com/

  • #2
    Uhm, yes.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • #3
      Which victory or defeat?

      The Germans and romans had been at odds more and more since caesar's conquest of Gaul.

      Eventually, The germans superceded the romans in europe and north africa.
      http://www.ststs.com/CGI_BIN/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=cut
      Dan Severn of the Loose Cannon Alliance
      ------------------------
      ¡Mueran todos los Reyes!

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      • #4
        The Germans conquered Western Europe and set up societies that still exist 1600 years later. How that can be considered anything less than a victory is beyond me.
        Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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        • #5
          Romans got beat badley, and what was left of Rome, the Turks kicked 1000 years later.

          Soooo it wasn't such a good system after all, as there were just minor improvement even though there was almost 2000 years of governmental/scinetific continuity.

          Nevertheless todays world is built on those values soooo... something good (perhaps, that remains to be seen) came of it eventually.
          Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
          GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

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          • #6
            Dan,
            Not in Byzantium (the eastern Roman empire, the greek one) It lasted one thousand more years after rome fell to the barbarians.

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            • #7
              every empire falls eventually, then others are created and then we can see basketball games.

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              • #8
                Rome self-destructed with its endless civil wars, usurpations, and later despotism. It was a wonder that such an entity survived for 500 years.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by paiktis22
                  Dan,
                  Not in Byzantium (the eastern Roman empire, the greek one) It lasted one thousand more years after rome fell to the barbarians.
                  The "Eastern Roman Empire" was really a greek empire, related more closely to the Hellenic Kingdoms before the arrival of rome. The Latin Empire was all but dead by the end of the second century. Rome itself ceased to be the Imperial capital in the west, replaced by Medioplanum.(Milan.)
                  http://www.ststs.com/CGI_BIN/YaBB/YaBB.pl?board=cut
                  Dan Severn of the Loose Cannon Alliance
                  ------------------------
                  ¡Mueran todos los Reyes!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The Eastern Roman Empire wasn't a Greek empire until after the 4th Crusade. Prior, it was a cosmopolitan empire with nobles and royalty from all nationalities.
                    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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                    • #11
                      predominantly greek with the language greek and the laws a mixture of roman and greek.
                      romios (=christian greek) royalty accepted marriages from other nations (like serbian queens) to forge alliances.

                      there kings names such as "slayer of bulgarians" and such so it was alliances made and wars with those not made.

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                      • #12
                        Seems like a victory to me. It sure as hell paid for the Germans at the time, and those tribes and those that came later became the European countries we know of today, like Che said. Now, if you want to blame the Romans for losing Gaul and inflicting the Franks on the world... Just kiddin'

                        -Arrian
                        grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                        The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                        • #13
                          I guess this thread was partially meant as an invitation to Historic-Battles (.com)

                          But beside that: For the Germanics it definitely paid off. Some off them saved their as*es from being whipped by the Huns or they left home because they barely had to eat.
                          The Germanics of Antiquity were nothing but archaic, fierce, cruel, savage barbarians without great achievements. In the Dark Ages and Middle Ages they became the founders of several kingdoms which proved to be very vital, prosperous and innovative. Germanic elements fertilized a culture in decay.
                          Last edited by Wernazuma III; August 7, 2002, 17:27.
                          "The world is too small in Vorarlberg". Austrian ex-vice-chancellor Hubert Gorbach in a letter to Alistar [sic] Darling, looking for a job...
                          "Let me break this down for you, fresh from algebra II. A 95% chance to win 5 times means a (95*5) chance to win = 475% chance to win." Wiglaf, Court jester or hayseed, you judge.

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                          • #14
                            What was Augustus thinking when he called a halt in to Roman expansion in Germania. Sure it took the Germans 400 years to conquer the Western Empire, but you just had to know that they eventually would.

                            After the German takeover, and especially after the wars in Itally in the mid-500's, the West was in a state of collapse. The old civilization was gone and the new civilization was little more than lawless banditry. I personnally believe that the Empire in its last century had become a very humane place to live largely due to Christianity. However, taxes were high, feudalism was rising and the the trade economy was already falling apart prior to the German takeover. Even without the Germans, the Roman Empire needed a strong leader to reunite East and West and to fix what was wrong with their economy. However, by the time such a leader emerged - Justinian - it was already too late for the West.

                            No, the German takeover was not good for anyone. History would have been better had the Romans taken over the Germans.

                            Augustus, you were wrong.
                            http://tools.wikimedia.de/~gmaxwell/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php?path=John+Williams+The+Imperial+M arch+from+The+Empire+Strikes+Back.ogg&wiki=en

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                            • #15
                              When did this happen?

                              Was this one of the battles in World War 2. Battle of the Bulge maybe?

                              Well considering we still speak Latin today and use Roman numerals I have to say the Romans won

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