Official : Plan Gold

[Spiffor]

OPD had an idea which is currently being debated in this thread

The idea is about our preparation of war against the French :

- Apolyton should start building warriors, ca. 10.
- In the meantime, our workers connect Banana HQ to Ubergorsk and the iron East of it.
- We use our treasury to upgrade our warriors in Apolyton into swordsmen, once iron is connected. It will cost 40 gold per upgrade
- We use these swordsmen to attack France.

Question is : do you agree with the plan ?
Possible answers : Yes or No.
This poll will be closed in 3 days (Friday 2 August, 16:30 GMT)

Edit : added the cost of the upgrade

[Donal Graeme]

As I see it, there are only two problems with the plan:
1. Time. Will it take too long to come to fruition?
2. Money. We have enough, but is this the action that we want to spend it on?

We need to ask ourselves these two questions before voting.
Also, Sir Ralph, do you see any possible way to incorporate OPD's idea into a war with France? Or do you think that we will have to stick with archers and spearmen?

edit: Spiffor, as minister of the economy, do you feel this is a smart expenditure of money?

[Spiffor]

I support the plan, because it allows us to have a terrific army in 20 turns, when the French will merely begin to buildup their military. The odds will be outstandingly in our favor, while they're les favourable now.

It also allows us to follow Uber's cunning strategy of disembarking units with galleys, because it gives us time to build galleys.

It's very possible to connect Iron to Apolyton in less than 20 years : it takes an industrious worker 5 turns to road jungle, meaning a 5 industrious stack will road a jungle tile each turn.
We have 3 workers from industrious Apolytonia already, and possibly 4 American workers, if we buy one from Abe this turn, for 28 gold. 4 American workers are as well as 2 Apolytonian workers, meaning our 3 Apolytonian + 4 American stackwill road a jungle tile each turn.
Such a stack can meet NW of Banana HQ in 3 turns.
It roads, 4 turns
Moves and roads N, 6
Moves and roads E, 8
Moves and roads E, 10
Moves and roads SE, 12
Moves and roads SE, 14
Moves to Hill E of Ubergorsk, 15
Roads hill (I don't know if it will take 1 or 2 turns).

Conclusion, if we rush to iron, we'll get it connected in no more than 17 turns, which is soon enough.

Now, to the gold problem : there is no gold problem. In 17 turns, we'll have 9 warriors ready in Apolyton (including the one currently defending). They'll cost 360 gold to upgrade, and we already have 509, and have a good cash flow (up to +17 gpt now).

In the meantime, we'll be able to buy 2 galleys in Termina, so that our swordsmen can be sent to French shores, as per Uber's plan.
And we'll still have our archer stack which will attack less protected cities like Orleans.

Except our troops will march on Paris in ca. 20 turns rather than 10, I don't see any flaw to the plan. And in REX phase, these 10 turns will not mean a major French military buildup.
I tried to prove here that it's a quick and unexpensive way to have an unbeatable army.

[Donal Graeme]

Makes sense to me, I'll vote for the plan. A good mix of common sense and planning ahead. I like it.

[Apocalypse]

Sounds good. We should be able to attack America again immediately after (or even during) the war with the French.

[Spiffor]

Don't forget we must wait 20 turns before declaring war to the Yanks, if we don't want our reputation to suffer badly.

[Kuciwalker]

*sigh*

Manually add +1 to YES

[Epistax]

I like it because it allows our less developed cities to build improvements, while we build an able fighting force. Due to our current city size limitations by unhappiness, clearing the jungle at this time is not a major priorty. However once our workers reach Uber[insert the sound of a squished bug] they can clean up that city's territory, which currently has only one good square... the city :P

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Don't forget we must wait 20 turns before declaring war to the Yanks, if we don't want our reputation to suffer badly.

Doesn't it take 20 turns just to build 10 warriors though?

[Robber Baron]

Originally posted by Epistax
... once our workers reach Uber[insert the sound of a squished bug] they can clean up that city's territory, which currently has only one good square... the city :P

I like this aspect of the plan, as building up this city represents the best way to counter the presence of Munich to the north.
In order to make this plan work, we have to create connected infrastructure and keep it open. That will be a major challenge (at least, until/if we secure French sources of iron). If the Germans put a substantial effort into building up Munich, it will grow territorial borders south, and cut off our road. We need to buttress Uberkorsk culturally and in terms of population, hopefully enough to flip Munich.
(Ironic, ain't it, that the city named for Uber will need to establish a strong culture in order to fulfill its key strategic role. )
Personally, I favor building up a horse army. More time consuming, but a lot more flexible (offence/defense, spread up and down the length of our growing territory; and in terms of eventual upgrade).
Still, if we run careful numbers, and this seems to be workable ....

[Nikolai]

I support the plan. But I think it would be wise to not attack the Americans during the war, after all, history have showed us that a two front war is never a optimal situation.

[Trevman]

Good plan, but let's improve Apolyton a bit and consolidate our new territory.

[notyoueither]

The makings of a good plan. 9 or 10 sword with our Archers backing them up would be more than enough for France.

[Will 5001]

The financial cost is severe, but there may be a chance to build some setlers since we don't need ALL of our cities to be producing do we? We need to expand to some sites in this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=57368

otherwise, I support this plan, very cunning!

[Spiffor]

We are currently building 2 settlers, in Banana HQ and Tassagrad. I don't know where we'll be able to build the next one though.

[GodKing]

I support as long as we do not forget to build up our own territory as a priority. Also, before we march, we need to have some clear objectives. Very clear. Such as, stop when we get the wine, or stop after the last man falls. Either way - as long as we have a clearly defined start and end point.....

[Vlad Antlerkov]

We do. Our plan is to go after Paris and Orleans, as per Uber's plan, then when the Frenchies sue for peace, ask for Rheims and Chartres as part of the deal. If they refuse, take Rheims and Chartres, then see what we can get (namely, Marseilles). We're also after a leader (for Forbidden Palace) and some elite units.

Here's the war plan.

[Harovan]

I was against this plan at first, because I thought it slows us down too much. But after carefully considering the situation, I approve it. Yes from me.

[Aggie]

I too was against this idea for the initial war with france. However, it does seem that it is a good idea. So add me to the converted list. Though I do say, due to the longer prep time, we try to secure at least 3 cities by force before peace talks. Good job OPD .
Aggie

[Kramerman]

I've converted too. I wanted to focus on infrastructure, but this is a good idea, and we will be able to knock down another apponent and gain more territory and citizens.

[MJW]

[Inverse Icarus]

i'm voting yes, although i dislike the dead endedness of this plan (swordsmen don't upgrade).

After the wars with France and America, we may just use them as Garrisons

[MrWhereItsAt]

YES! Time to easily triple our strength.

Swordsmen don't upgrade, but they would make good garrisons. And we shouldn't stop planning wars until we are big enough to not have to worry about not being able to upgrade Swordsmen.

[Harovan]

Swordsmen are lousy garrisons, because they don't upgrade. I suggest to replace them ASAP. Let them fill up our army and die out in the battles to come, after their time was gone.

[Guardian]

-Or we can keep them until they're no longer needed, then disband them and get some of the shields back. (When a unit is disbanded inside a city, a quarter of the shields it took to build that unit is returned to the city and goes straight into the current build project.)

Anyway, I approve the plan, even though I normally don't like swordsmen all that much...
I prefer knights, which are faster and stronger and can be upgraded to cavalry when the time comes. However, in this case, waiting for them to become available would leave us sitting on our butts for way too long, which is actually a lot worse than having a few units that can't be upgraded. Besides, once you get to cavalry, you're at a dead end anyway, so it's all give and take, I suppose. We need units that can hit hard in 20 turns from now, and at that the swordsmen are the best we can get. So, get the swords and grab us another couple of quick and decisive victories. We can build more advanced units later on, when we more land and a better infrastructure to support them.

[Kramerman]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Swordsmen are lousy garrisons, because they don't upgrade. I suggest to replace them ASAP. Let them fill up our army and die out in the battles to come, after their time was gone.

They may not be the best garrisons, but they could work until we could dsband them and replace them with musketman. I dont think that ot would be to hard.

Kman

[Donal Graeme]

Do we really need 10 swordsmen? If you ask me half that many are more than enough. That way we save money and time spent on producing warriors, that way we can start upgrading our cities.

edit: Don't forget, we have 5 archers who can help, and they don't advance beyond longbowmen. So losing them and the swordsmen now won't be the end of the world.

[Kuciwalker]

Five Swordsmen doesn't give us enough of a safety margin. With ten, victory is assured.

[GePap]

Well, since war with France appears to have been chosen aready, this is by far the most interesting , original plan, which also gives us space for domestic improvements and growth: a very nice balance overall and a good foundation for the future. great job OPD.

[GodKing]

Thanks Vlad.