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Thread: How to win the War on Terrorism

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    How to win the War on Terrorism

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...1/7/1txoa.html

    HOW TO WIN THE WAR ON TERRORISM
    Wed Jul 10, 9:01 PM ET
    By Ted Rall

    Constructive Suggestions Bush Will Surely Ignore

    NEW YORK-Last fall I predicted that Pakistanis would turn against Gen. Pervez Musharraf for helping the U.S. bomb Afghanistan ( news - web sites). As I write this, Musharraf-ridiculed in his own state-controlled press as "Busharraf"-finds himself bereft of political support and in danger of being violently overthrown. Afghanistan, I wrote last fall, could never be united by an American-imposed puppet regime. At least three different flags fly currently over that country, his cabinet is being picked off by assassins and 90 percent of the country remains beyond the reach of Hamid Karzai's Kabul city-state. I mocked the federal government's single-minded obsession with airline security, guessing (correctly, so far) that September 11th would be the jihadis' first and last use of hijacked airplanes to kill Americans. In the future, I said, Islamist terrorists would apply the same tactics they use against Israel-suicide bombings and shooting sprees, truck bombs and assassinations. In fact, the second hit came in the form of an oddly downplayed July 3rd suicide shooting at LAX.

    Being right all the time sure is weird.

    I realize that my winning streak as punditry's Cassandra may not last. But while I'm riding high I'd like to satisfy those how-come-you-columnists-always-criticize-but-never-offer-solutions complaints that flood my in-box.

    But first, let's go back to last fall.

    What Really Happened on 9-11

    Most Americans were shocked, shocked, shocked! by the attacks on the Pentagon and World Trade Center. Suddenly, like a bolt out of a clear blue sky, radical Muslims who hated us for no conceivable reason had killed 3,000 innocent people for reasons both mysterious and nefarious. Our response was knee-jerk: we had to get even. The "evil doers," Bush told us, were led by Osama bin Laden. He, and they, lived in Afghan caves. We would bomb those caves, he promised, until America was safe again.

    In truth, Afghanistan had always been a sideshow of anti-Americanism, a mere back lot funded and armed by Pakistani intelligence. Most of the training camps, extremist groups and Al Qaeda itself were in Pakistan. Gen. Musharraf, our new "ally," was virulently anti-American and pro-Taliban. Bombing Afghanistan never made sense as a way of "getting" the 9-11 guys because the 9-11 guys were all Saudis and Egyptians. Bombing may do the trick, but you'd have to bomb the right country-and Afghanistan isn't it.

    We wanted to get even for 9-11, but we missed the point: 9-11 was an act of revenge for more than a decade of perceived insults and abuses. Muslims around the world watched in anger and despair as hundreds of thousands of Iraqis died, first in the Gulf War and later as the result of U.S.-imposed trade sanctions and daily bombing raids over Iraqi cities. They were appalled by the continuing carnage in the endless Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a meat-grinder that claimed a grossly disproportionate number of Palestinians. According to Muslims I've met from Amman to Tashkent to Karachi, President Clinton's 1998 cruise missile attacks on Afghanistan and Sudan were the last straw. Despite ironclad proof that the Sudanese plant destroyed in the attack manufactured nothing more deadly than aspirin, the U.S. government refused to apologize for its mistake. "Your country's arrogance is astonishing," a Talib told me over Kashmiri tea in August of 1999. "You won't be able to fight your war against Islam away from home forever." After years of trying to grab our attention with smaller attacks-on the World Trade Center in '93, U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania, on the U.S.S. Cole-there still wasn't any serious discussion of American actions in the Muslim world among American leaders or journalists. That's when jihadis decided to launch a big-budget, theatrical assault not even the thickest-headed American could ignore. Sayonara, World Trade Center.

    What They Want/Why They Hate Us

    "There are people that hate our freedoms, that really can't stand the thought that people are able to worship freely or speak their mind freely, or be able to realize their dreams regardless of who they are," Bush says. "They don't like that, and therefore they want to strike out at America again." Actually, they don't give a fig about our freedoms. Islamists don't want to impose Islam on America, they want to make Muslim countries more radically Muslim. They also want us to stop messing with them.

    When terrorists make demands, take them at their word. When bin Laden says he wants us to remove our military bases from the Arabian peninsula, drop trade sanctions against Iraq and stop arming Israel, believe it: that's exactly what he wants. It may or may not be wise to give into these demands, but dismissing them as the rants of cave-dwelling freedom-haters is lunacy. Terrorists resort to violence because they don't believe that writing letters to the editor, lobbying Congress or other "legitimate" means of disagreement stand a chance of success. Ignoring their concerns entirely-not to be confused with giving in to them-is sure to infuriate them further, which will merely increase the frequency and scale of future attacks.

    Who They Are

    You can't effectively fight your enemies unless you understand their motivations. Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad and similar groups are composed of men-most with wives and children-who don't consider themselves terrorists. If anything, calling them terrorists only hardens their resolve and their belief that Westerners don't "get it." From their point of view they belong to resistance organizations. (One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist; in August of 1944 Charles de Gaulle's Free French were transformed overnight from brigands and bandits into the internationally-recognized government of France.)

    Desperate, determined individuals whose political and other concerns are systemically excluded from mainstream discourse by those in power form resistance organizations. Their structure is loose and internally secretive; every leader is dispensable. Few members know other members save the person who recruited them and one or two more they themselves recruit. They lead low-key lives and don't attract attention to themselves. They don't attend meetings. Their cellular structure and secrecy makes them hard to find and catch in significant numbers.

    Historically, governments have typically responded to resistance groups ("terrorists," if it makes you feel better) by applying standard tools of repression: mass arrests, infiltration, torture, reprisals against members' relatives and associates. These tactics hardly ever work. The African National Congress, Free French and the Solidarity movement all faced formidable, better-armed adversaries in the Afrikaners, Nazis and Soviets. And yet the former eventually seized power from the latter. In fact, repressive tactics radicalize moderates and fence sitters, increasing the ranks of the resistors. Who doubts that Hamas recruits new members among those who watch Israeli bulldozers knock down their neighbors' homes?

    How to Fight Them

    I'm not a pacifist. Military action is necessary to defend a nation's borders from invaders. But you can no more bomb a resistance organization out of existence than you can track down every one of the estimated 40,000 Al Qaeda members living outwardly bland lives all over the globe. So how do you stop them?

    The short answer is that you can't-not entirely. As long as explosives are cheap and the world breeds despair, there will be someone willing to walk into Times Square with an Uzi and a last will and testament. But we can turn once again to history for a solution.

    Despite occasional flare-ups, Northern Ireland's "troubles" are a shadow of the crisis they once were. The Irish Republican Army, after decades of armed attacks against British occupation forces and their Protestant paramilitary allies, has disarmed. Sinn Fein has been mainstreamed (some might say co-opted) into Irish politics. Here in the United States, the Weather Underground-once the most feared domestic revolutionary organization of the late `60s-disintegrated when Nixon began pulling troops out of Vietnam. In both cases, the groups evaporated when their cause-in the first example, the alienation and oppression of Northern Irish Catholics, opposition to the Vietnam War in the second-vanished.

    Both the IRA and the Weather Underground were composed of relatively small numbers of committed members who received financial support from larger numbers of sympathizers. During the `80s many Irish bars in Boston and New York promised to send a portion of their profits to the IRA. Similarly, Islamist groups draw their financial strength, the asset that allows people from impoverished Third World countries to fund a $200,000 attack against the U.S. on 9-11, from millions of sympathetic Muslims. That broad-based outrage, in the form of millions of dimes and quarters dropped into collection plates in mosques worldwide, should serve as a signal that, just maybe, American policies in the Middle East and elsewhere should be reassessed.

    What, Sell Out? What About Punishing the Evil Doers?

    Obviously, the perps of 9-11 should be brought to justice. Perhaps the Bushies are already working with Saudi and Egyptian authorities to track down members of the specific groups that planned and executed 9-11. If so, these guys, once arrested, should be put on trial for crimes against humanity at the World Court at The Hague. This would show the world that the U.S. seeks impartial justice rather than ham-fisted vengeance.

    Addressing Islamist demands-not caving in outright-would eliminate most of the broad-based Muslim support for jihadi groups. Moreover, they'd do us more good than harm. Withdrawing our support for the corrupt Saudi dictatorship might lead to a less pro-American regime, for example, but it would begin to inoculate us from the mostly-justified criticism that we pro-democracy Americans promote oppression wherever it suits our business interests. Stopping or reducing our $3 billion per annum flow of arms to Israel would allow us to truly act as an impartial negotiator in the Middle East, not to mention put a dent in the deficit. We could still offer to defend Israel in the event of an invasion, and while that stance wouldn't sate Osama et al., it wouldn't spark much anger among the great Arab mainstream.

    It's a simple equation, really: Parse Islamist demands into the acceptable and unreasonable, ignore the ridiculous and respond constructively to the mainstream. Take away the cause's raison d'être and the cause goes away. To be sure, there may always be a few lunatics willing to blow themselves up for Allah. But their bank accounts will be small and so will their bombs.

    (Ted Rall's new book, a graphic travelogue about his recent coverage of the Afghan war titled "To Afghanistan and Back," is now available in bookstores everywhere. Ordering and review-copy information are available at nbmpub.com.)
    I think this editorial is pretty spot-on. Certainly more honest than most in talking about our dubious choices in allies.
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    I like this.
    A copy of this should go into every American mailbox.

    The funniest thing is whenever Bush tells us that "those terrorists hate our freedoms, they want to destroy freedom and impose terror" etc etc. Their ulterior motive is fighting for freedom and against terror, only in ways that we don't agree with and therefore fight against. It's even worse when the rhetoric that Bush uses makes everyone miss the point totally and fail to see where the terrorism problem comes from and how to solve it.
    Last edited by ranskaldan; July 12, 2002 at 12:47.
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    Ted Rall rules!
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    I think it should be noted that in many nations, such as some of the opressive regimes in the middle east, violence is the ONLY way to change the system. People in these nations know they either need to go along and shut. There is no peacful way for citizens/subjects of these nations to move for change. Whereas in the west you might be able to put some pressure on elected officials, people in these nations have no concept or ability to do this. It took westerner's centuries of violence and absolutism to figure out that if they wanted to avoid killing, they needed to provide the ability (or the illusion of ability) for citizens/subjects to invoke change. I dont mean to imply that us westerner's are superior because of this, just that its probably the west's primary reedeming quality (certainly there are bad things too). IMO this is a primary trait of western culture (govt derrived from popular ascent), but is not a characteristic of some other cultures. Political legitamacy often derrives from unquestionable religous or military strength. So when many middle easterners want to alter America's mid east policies, violence tends to be preferred. They have a very undeveloped concept of peacful change, and a very developed concept of violent change.

    So IMO to fight terrorism you have to fight oppression, but its not just local oppression you must fight but external pressure. There has to be economic prosperity and economic strength amongst the general populace, and the populace should be encouraged to speak for peacful change and discourage violent actions for change.

    I hope I dont sound paternalistic, I just mean to imply its a complex social problem that we should work to root out in a peacful, reconstructive fashion. Otherwise the US will just be hated for the oil sucking wench it is.
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    This guy is living in a dream world. I guess he didn't take seriously the words of OBL althought he is telling us that we should take those words seriously. We are hated by these terrorists because we are associated in their minds with Israel. This is simply more antisemetic nonsense garbed in lofty liberal thought. They will attack us as long as we do not subscribe to the hatred of Jews that empowers them.

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    YES!!!!! Finally an American who understood the situation!!!!
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    From the treasure-trove of history:

    HOW TO WIN THE WAR ON TERRORISM

    by Neville Chamberlain
    Peace-in-Our-Time Herald, 1939

    What They Want/Why They Hate Us

    "There are people that hate our freedoms, that really can't stand the thought that people are able to worship freely or speak their mind freely, or be able to realize their dreams regardless of who they are," Churchill says. "They don't like that, and therefore they want to strike out at Britain again." Actually, they don't give a fig about our freedoms. Aryans don't want to impose Nazism on Britain, they want to make Aryan countries more radically Nazi. They also want us to stop messing with them.

    When terrorists make demands, take them at their word. When Hitler says he wants us to remove our military bases from the Rhür, drop trade sanctions against Germany and stop arming France, believe it: that's exactly what he wants. It may or may not be wise to give into these demands, but dismissing them as the rants of cave-dwelling freedom-haters is lunacy. Terrorists resort to violence because they don't believe that writing letters to the editor, lobbying Congress or other "legitimate" means of disagreement stand a chance of success. Ignoring their concerns entirely-not to be confused with giving in to them-is sure to infuriate them further, which will merely increase the frequency and scale of future attacks.

    Who They Are

    You can't effectively fight your enemies unless you understand their motivations. The Nazi Party, Waffen-SS, Sonderkommado Ost, Gestapo and similar groups are composed of men-most with wives and children-who don't consider themselves terrorists. If anything, calling them terrorists only hardens their resolve and their belief that Westerners don't "get it." From their point of view they belong to resistance organizations. (One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist; in August of 1944 Charles de Gaulle's Free French will be transformed overnight from brigands and bandits into the internationally-recognized government of France.)

    Desperate, determined individuals whose political and other concerns are systemically excluded from mainstream discourse by those in power form resistance organizations. Their structure is loose and internally secretive; every leader is dispensable. Few members know other members save the person who recruited them and one or two more they themselves recruit. They lead low-key lives and don't attract attention to themselves. They don't attend meetings. Their cellular structure and secrecy makes them hard to find and catch in significant numbers.

    Historically, governments have typically responded to resistance groups ("terrorists," if it makes you feel better) by applying standard tools of repression: mass arrests, infiltration, torture, reprisals against members' relatives and associates. These tactics hardly ever work. In fact, repressive tactics radicalize moderates and fence sitters, increasing the ranks of the resistors. Who doubts that Hitlerjugend recruits new members among those who watch the Jewsish bankers take over their neighbors' homes?

    How to Fight Them

    I'm not a pacifist. Military action is necessary to defend a nation's borders from invaders. But you can no more bomb a resistance organization out of existence than you can track down every one of the estimated 40,000 Nazi party members members living outwardly bland lives all over the Reich. So how do you stop them?

    The short answer is that you can't-not entirely. As long as explosives are cheap and the world breeds despair, there will be someone willing to walk into Times Square with a Panzerfaust and a last will and testament. But we can turn once again to history for a solution.

    What, Sell Out? What About Punishing the Evil Doers?

    Addressing Nazi demands-not caving in outright-would eliminate most of the broad-based Aryan support for Nazi groups. Moreover, they'd do us more good than harm. Withdrawing our support for the corrupt Polish dictatorship might lead to a less pro-British regime, for example, but it would begin to inoculate us from the mostly-justified criticism that we pro-democracy Brits promote oppression wherever it suits our business interests. Stopping or reducing our 3 billion per annum flow of arms to France would allow us to truly act as an impartial negotiator in Central Europe, not to mention put a dent in the deficit. We could still offer to defend France in the event of an invasion, and while that stance wouldn't sate Hitler et al., it wouldn't spark much anger among the great Aryan mainstream.

    It's a simple equation, really: Parse Nazi demands into the acceptable and unreasonable, ignore the ridiculous and respond constructively to the mainstream. Take away the cause's raison d'être and the cause goes away. To be sure, there may always be a few lunatics willing to blow themselves up for Der Führer. But their bank accounts will be small and so will their bombs.
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    Chieftain
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    Here's the flaw in logic I see.

    1) He says to take the words of terrorists at the face value, and assumes that they will stop attacking the Us if we give in to those demands.


    2) But if we take their words at face value, then shouldn't we acknowledge that when they say they will destroy the hedonistic western civilization that they'll try to no matter what?

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    He ignores those words... The important thing is to think 'world peace' hard enough and *poof* before you know it...

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    Moomin -- > It would be more easy to compare GWB to Hitler than Muslims, you know.

    [troll]
    On the other hand, we all know that people who don't think that war is
    a blessing which will solve all our problems are just moron liberals
    who don't have the balls to kill people, right? [/troll]

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    Originally posted by Tuomerehu
    Moomin -- > It would be more easy to compare GWB to Hitler than Muslims, you know.

    [troll]
    On the other hand, we all know that people who don't think that war is
    a blessing which will solve all our problems are just moron liberals
    who don't have the balls to kill people, right? [/troll]
    Because, you know, GWB routinely professes a hatred of other religions (especially those greedy jews), the superiority of his own people and religion, and how it is their destiny to smash the inferior cultures and people's of the world.

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    2) But if we take their words at face value, then shouldn't we acknowledge that when they say they will destroy the hedonistic western civilization that they'll try to no matter what?
    and why does he want to destroy that civilization?
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    moominparatrooper:
    Nice try, but your date is wrong. Should've been 10 years earlier. In 1929, the Nazi movement was (roughly) similar to Al Quaeda. In 1939, they already had firmly set up a terror regime, and also had the vulnerabilities of a state. To which they finally succumbed. In 1929, dividing into reasonable and unreasonable demands well may have worked. The motives of OBL and Hitler were different. Hitler wanted power, power, power and OBL revenge, revenge, revenge.
    But to understand the motives of other people is something American politics has successfully avoided up to now. And as long as this continues, America will be in trouble.
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    Sick

    Originally posted by Lemmy
    and why does he want to destroy that civilization?
    Because we are an evil, decadent, and corrupt people, if we are going to only look at what they say as Ted suggests.
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    OBL and other fanatics will want to destroy the hedonistic western Civ. But that's not the matter. The matter is : once muslim people stop to feel humiliated by US / Israel*, a huge majority will go on with their own business, and won't want to utterly destroy the western Civ. In fact, when you see people from these poor countries, they envy our mass consumption lifestyle.
    Sure, OBL and some zealots will continue to plot against Israel and the US (and Europe if it's stupid enough to follow the US), but the point is : they won't have nearly as much support and as much money to do this. Without money, you can't organize such brilliant attacks as 11.9

    The flaw in this logic (which is the logic of the author, if you read carefully) is that OBL & co. are financed by oil-billionaires and such, who can afford to be fanatic.



    *please don't reply it's a good or necesary thing, it's not the matter ; whaterver the reasons, most muslims feel humiliated
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    Originally posted by Lincoln
    This guy is living in a dream world. I guess he didn't take seriously the words of OBL althought he is telling us that we should take those words seriously. We are hated by these terrorists because we are associated in their minds with Israel. This is simply more antisemetic nonsense garbed in lofty liberal thought. They will attack us as long as we do not subscribe to the hatred of Jews that empowers them.
    Ahem, read closer:

    Parse Islamist demands into the acceptable and unreasonable, ignore the ridiculous and respond constructively to the mainstream. Take away the cause's raison d'être and the cause goes away. To be sure, there may always be a few lunatics willing to blow themselves up for Allah.
    He isn't saying Al Queda isn't serious, he's saying Al Queda is a group of lunatics. But by robbing them of support from the mainstream by taking mainstream grievances seriously, its power and ability to be dangerous will be crippled.

    You last sentence reeks of bigotry agains Muslims.

    Rall's point stands. An unreasonable stubborness to acknowledge ANY wrongdoing on the part of the U.S.A. against Muslim countries will continue to be met with fanatical extremism by lunatics. We've done a lot of damage over there, are continuing to do so, and will be a target so long as we keep doing so.
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    To not use a Nazi comparison, let's use one that lefties like Ted Rall might relate to better. Anti-abortion terrorists.

    Suppose that Army of God blows up something more than an abortion clinic. Planned Parenthood headquarters, say. Or maybe they, too, target some symbol of decadent, liberal, abortion-loving America, like Empire State Building. What matters is that it's big, and lots of people die.

    You wouldn't hear appeasement rhetoric from the Left, then. No, for once, Left would be in unison demanding all kinds of stuff - that every member of Army of God is tracked down and imprisoned/executed, depending on strength of that particular leftist's convictions about death penalty. They'd demand federal protection of abortion clinics and federal surveillance of more radical Christian groups, even ones that haven't had any connection to clinic bombers. Crackdown on anti-abortion protests, perhaps - stuff like that.

    There wouldn't be Ted Rall-equivalents from the Right saying that you know, those Army of God types are just doing this because they feel nothing else is working, that they are freedom fighters instead of terrorists, and that maybe we should give in to their 'less radical' beliefs, like outlawing abortion, without giving in to their 'more radical' beliefs, like executing abortionists and aborting former-mothers. If there would be, the Left would scream about how you can't appease those Christian fundamentalists and how outlawing abortion is just a stepping stone to complete theocratic tyranny.
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    Originally posted by Lincoln
    This guy is living in a dream world. I guess he didn't take seriously the words of OBL althought he is telling us that we should take those words seriously. We are hated by these terrorists because we are associated in their minds with Israel. This is simply more antisemetic nonsense garbed in lofty liberal thought. They will attack us as long as we do not subscribe to the hatred of Jews that empowers them.
    I think its infinitely more complicated then that. Of course OBL and crew are screwed up and should be taken into custody. Thats the short term. In the long term, we have to change the political structure of these societies so that violence is not teh preferred method for change. Once that is done, we can say we are winning the war on terror. Hopefully Afghanistan will be taken care of by the administration, and not neglected.
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    Emperor Stefu's Avatar
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    BTW, how many people of the Left are willing to say they'll prefer a world where radical Islam in Taliban vein rules from Morocco to Indonesia, if it means that there won't be any more strikes on America? That sounds rather... selfish, doesn't it? Putting national interests before the world's interests, that kind of stuff?
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    Stefu, the point is taking away ground for radicals, thus leaving the world without strikes in America and radical regimes in the muslim world as well. Don't be so destructive.

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    Stefu thats the nature of every nation's foreign policy. Everybody's out for numero uno. I mean think of all those Arab states that give the Palestinians the shaft then whine to Israel that they oppress Palestinians. Think of America during the early 19th century with the crisis in Haiti.
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    So basically, according to this article, surrender to terrorists and let them ditate what you can and cannot do from now on is the only choice.

    And some of you applauded it.
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    Yes. When America rolls over and bares it's tummy, and Saudi Arabia gets taken over by radical fundamentalists, and OBL gets clarification that hey, this terror stuff is doing it's job, i.e. causing enough terror in America that it's willing to give up, that will surely set the cause of radical Islam back by centuries!

    Radical Islamists don't like what America is doing, true, but they also don't like what their own, non-radical governments are doing, ie. not enforcing Sharia with proper vengefulness, and if America bares it's tummy, then fight for Islamic revolution in their own countries becomes even more important for them - and fall of Saudi-Arabian monarchy gives them confidence that it can be done. Not to mention all the money coming from Saudi Arabia to support them - and yes, I know Saudis already support fundies, but fall of Saudi-Arabia would mean fundies get even more money. And recruits. And influence. And if America continues to stay out, then one by one, the non-fundie governments will fall. From Morocco to Indonesia.
    "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
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    Stefu thats the nature of every nation's foreign policy. Everybody's out for numero uno.
    But for some reason Left doesn't seem to like it when talkin' bout America's oil interests in Middle East.
    "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
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    Oh, and Ted Rall is a hack who can't draw and thus is forced to cause controversy and say what the ample audience of anti-Americans want to be said to stay in spotlight. He's Ann Coulter of the Left.
    "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
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    i read just some pieaces opf ted rall, of course hes absolutely right and what amazes me as that common sense constitutes such an amazemtn to some

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    Originally posted by Chris 62
    So basically, according to this article, surrender to terrorists and let them ditate what you can and cannot do from now on is the only choice.

    And some of you applauded it.
    Can we say "going to the opposite extreme?"

    Give me a break, that's not what Rall is saying at all. Do you rightist folks read? Or was learning to read things too much of a "liberal" education for you?



    Rall isn't talking about appeasing terrorists, not even remotely. He's talking about addressing the legitimate concerns of MAINSTREAM Muslim nations in order to steal the thunder of extremist terrorist groups.

    What part of "Parse Islamist demands into the acceptable and unreasonable" is so hard to understand? The unreasonable is represented by OBL and company. The reasonable is mainstream Muslim concern.

    You guys jump to irrational conclusions faster than Lincoln does whenever Ashcroft speaks...
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    and that part with churchil was very amuzing thanks!

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    Originally posted by Stefu
    But for some reason Left doesn't seem to like it when talkin' bout America's oil interests in Middle East.
    That's because the Left wisely knows that it is not in America's best interest to be so dependent on Middle East oil tyrants and that alternative fuel sources are feasible and far more desirable.
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    That's because the Left wisely knows that it is not in America's best interest to be so dependent on Middle East oil tyrants and that alternative fuel sources are feasible and far more desirable.
    That might be true to an extent, but doesn't quite come close to explaining the moral outrage. "Gulf War was a WAR FOR OIL! We are letting Iraqi children die because of OIL INTERESTS! We would have helped Rwanda IF RWANDA HAD HAD OIL! AFGHAN PIPELINE! MWAARGH!"
    "Spirit merges with matter to sanctify the universe. Matter transcends to return to spirit. The interchangeability of matter and spirit means the starlit magic of the outermost life of our universe becomes the soul-light magic of the innermost life of our self." - Dennis Kucinich, candidate for the U. S. presidency
    "That’s the future of the Democratic Party: providing Republicans with a number of cute (but not that bright) comfort women." - Adam Yoshida, Canada's gift to the world

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