Gimme That Old Time Religion

Sikander · July 10, 2002, 01:48

A particularly disgusting story from CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/07/09/bi...ing/index.html

AUSTIN, Texas (CNN) -- Austin police arrested a church pastor and his twin brother Tuesday, alleging they used a tree branch to beat unconscious an 11-year-old who misbehaved in Bible class.

Joshua Thompson, 22, a pastor at Capitol City Baptist Church, and his brother Caleb turned themselves in Tuesday and were released on $25,000 bond, KEYE-TV reported. They were charged with injury to a child, a felony punishable by up to life in prison, the station reported.

The alleged beating took place July 3, according to reports. The brothers thought the boy did not take his Bible verses seriously enough during a church-sponsored summer camp for Spanish-speaking students, officials said.

The alleged abuse took place at a private home, said Bobby Taylor, the child's attorney. "They ... cut a branch off a tree, made my client lay on the bed, and beat him," Taylor said.

Court records obtained by Reuters alleged that the beating lasted for 90 minutes, broke blood vessels and caused the boy's kidneys to fail. The brothers allowed the child to take a break in the restroom during the reported beating, documents said.

Joshua Thompson beat the child while Caleb Thompson held him down, Reuters reported, citing court records. They reportedly turned up a radio to drown out the child's cries, the news service reported. Afterward, the two took the boy back to his home, where Joshua Thompson told the parents the child needed further discipline, the AP reported.

After the Thompsons left, the boy's parents discovered bruises and cuts covering his entire back, as well as bruises on his neck, buttocks and legs, AP reported. They called police and took their son to a hospital, where he remained in fair condition Tuesday, the news service said.

Capitol City Baptist does not support corporal punishment, said Jerald Finney, Joshua Thompson's lawyer.

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It seems they have no objection to hiring a couple of Neanderthals to serve as youth pastors however.

Faboba · July 10, 2002, 01:58

I'm confused. If his twin brother is called Tuesday why did they arrest Caleb? Seems unfair.

I wish things like this were made more public somehow. It might help remind people that Islam is not the only religion with fundamentalists.

Kirnwaffen · July 10, 2002, 01:59

It's nice to know that priests no longer stop at sexual and emotional trauma.

Verto · July 10, 2002, 01:59

What is the point?

This sickens me, and the two men certainly deserve to go to jail for this, or worse, but what are you trying to say or accomplish? Maybe nothing more than letting people know of the incident, but....

Sikander · July 10, 2002, 05:23

It's traditional here on OT to post interesting or grotesque news stories that your fellow posters may have missed. This story was particularly egregious, both in it's severe child abuse aspect as well as the complete cluelessness of the perpetrators who seem to know about as much about their own religion as my dog. I think it's important to know that this sort of thing is not limited to third world countries, but can happen in second world countries like the Republic of Texas as well. External diligence is the price of fiefdom.

Sava · July 10, 2002, 08:01

I'm still waiting for the brutal atheist stories.... oh yeah, we aren't crazy... DUH!

The diplomat · July 10, 2002, 09:03

This is sick, and a complete perversion of christianity. So please don't call this "ol' time religion"! This has nothing to do with religion or christianity!

Boris Godunov · July 10, 2002, 09:11

I don't know, reminds me of Christianity's good ol' days: The Inquisition, burning heretics at the stake, The Crusades...

The diplomat · July 10, 2002, 09:46

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I don't know, reminds me of Christianity's good ol' days: The Inquisition, burning heretics at the stake, The Crusades...

But that wasn't true christianity! The Catholic Church that did the Inquisistion, and the Crusades, was not true Christianity.

Just because it had the name "christian", does not mean it was. LIkewise, just because a person claims to be a christian does not mean they are. If their actions are unchristian, then they are definitely not christian no matter what they say.

Boris Godunov · July 10, 2002, 10:04

Didn't Jesus chase the money lenders out of the temple by lashing them with a whip?

So whipping people seems to be Christian after all!

Winston · July 10, 2002, 10:10

All people who had some kind of power in the days of the Crusades and later the Inquisition, were basically bastards when it came to human rights issues.

That wasn't a trait reserved for Christians by any means.

Remember Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

Help, help! I'm being oppressed!!

Now if that isn't historical proof of my point, then I must have watched too much MP.

Boris Godunov · July 10, 2002, 10:23

Psst...It's "repressed," not "oppressed."

The diplomat · July 10, 2002, 10:34

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Didn't Jesus chase the money lenders out of the temple by lashing them with a whip?

So whipping people seems to be Christian after all!

Oh my! Dont' tell me that you think Jesus chasing out money lenders with a whip and a boy practically beign whipped to death, are equivalent?

The two situations are completely different and in no way morally equivalent!

Winston · July 10, 2002, 10:36

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Psst...It's "repressed," not "oppressed."

Pah! You're as bad as a King.

JohnIII · July 10, 2002, 10:41

Originally posted by The diplomat
This is sick, and a complete perversion of christianity. So please don't call this "ol' time religion"! This has nothing to do with religion or christianity!

Agreed. And 11 September 2002 was nothing to do with Islam.

Boris Godunov · July 10, 2002, 10:48

Originally posted by The diplomat
Oh my! Dont' tell me that you think Jesus chasing out money lenders with a whip and a boy practically beign whipped to death, are equivalent?

The two situations are completely different and in no way morally equivalent!

Ok, aren't Christians supposed to follow the example set by Jesus in their lives?

In this particular example, Jesus used a whip against men he considered evil-doers.

So, couldn't one logically assume it is perfectly Christian to use a whip against those one thinks is commiting evil acts?

MikeH · July 10, 2002, 10:49

JohnIII: Of course.

Jac de Molay · July 10, 2002, 10:51

Well, the Bible is full of examples of "do as I say, not as I do". That's pretty much par for the course.

Dave

Orcus · July 10, 2002, 11:00

Originally posted by Sava
I'm still waiting for the brutal atheist stories.... oh yeah, we aren't crazy... DUH!

I could offer you some pretty brutal athiest stories from my own life, but I'm pretty sure I deserved it so it probably doesn't count.

Instead, I offer you the Unibomber. There's one in every crowd.

There is NO religion or philosophy so pure as to not have a psychopath amongst its followers. Not even your precious Athiesm. It is NOT the fault of the religion.

If it were, then I could go out and kill someone and say it's because I interpreted your words as meaning "go out and kill lots of people", would that be your fault? I think not.

The diplomat · July 10, 2002, 11:11

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Ok, aren't Christians supposed to follow the example set by Jesus in their lives?

In this particular example, Jesus used a whip against men he considered evil-doers.

So, couldn't one logically assume it is perfectly Christian to use a whip against those one thinks is commiting evil acts?

I can't believe what I am reading here? Are you doing this on purpose just to taunt me, or are you actually that ignorant?

A) Jesus did not hold them down to the ground and beat them half to death, he simply whipped at them to make them leave.
B) They were grown men, not an 11 year old little boy.
C) The men were evil because they were desecrating God's Temple by using sacrifices to cheat people out their money, rob them, and take advantage of them.
D) this boy was simply misbehaving a little bit. He was doing nothing like what the moeny changers were doing. The boy was not an evil-doer!

These are just 4 obvious differences between the 2 situations. No one in their right mind would ever assume from what Jesus did that it was ok to beat a little boy with a branch!

MikeH · July 10, 2002, 11:13

C) The men were evil because they were desecrating God's Temple by using sacrifices to cheat people out their money, rob them, and take advantage of them.

What's the difference between that, TV evangelists and the catholic church?

Orcus · July 10, 2002, 11:19

Originally posted by MikeH What's the difference between that, TV evangelists and the catholic church?

Very little, actually...but these people you mention don't represent Christianity very well IMO, though I'm sure they'd disagree with me. A church asking for money is not wrong, I see no problem with saying "We need new plumbing, can any of you who use this place lend a hand?" The difference is, are they using the money for the church or for themselves?

If Jesus were flesh today, I'm sure he'd chase televangelists around with a whip too.

The diplomat · July 10, 2002, 11:19

Originally posted by MikeH

What's the difference between that, TV evangelists and the catholic church?

None. The TV evangelists and Catholics who use God's word to extort money from people are the modern day equivalent of the money lenders in Jesus' day.

I am convinced that if Jesus were on Earth today, He would probably react in a similar way.

Heresson · July 10, 2002, 11:22

Aren't catholics christians, dimpolat?
Anyway at this time somehow those that later became protestants didn't protest. Ergo; they are to be blamed too.
Eastern christianity took thier part too. But, generally, christians aren't to be blamed, as it was only a 450-year-late answer to Muslim Holy War. It's really strange that crusades started that late.

The diplomat · July 10, 2002, 11:26

Originally posted by Heresson
Aren't catholics christians, diplomat?

I was referring to the Roman Catholic priests in the Middle Ages who would promise to forvige someone's sins in exchange for a monetary contribution. They were clearly extorting money from believers who did not know that they were being cheated, because they were not allowed to read the Bible for themselves.

Boris Godunov · July 10, 2002, 11:27

Originally posted by The diplomat
I can't believe what I am reading here? Are you doing this on purpose just to taunt me, or are you actually that ignorant?

Duh, gee, I dunno...

A) Jesus did not hold them down to the ground and beat them half to death, he simply whipped at them to make them leave.

I guess he was just too slow to catch them...

So I can go whipping people to get out of places where I don't want them...okay, check!

B) They were grown men, not an 11 year old little boy.

Spare the rod, spoil the child...

C) The men were evil because they were desecrating God's Temple by using sacrifices to cheat people out their money, rob them, and take advantage of them.

I'm gonna find Oral Roberts and kick him in the keester!

D) this boy was simply misbehaving a little bit. He was doing nothing like what the moeny changers were doing. The boy was not an evil-doer!

I dunno, he could have been doing evil. What if the caught him ripping the wings off flies or abusing kittens?

No one in their right mind would ever assume from what Jesus did that it was ok to beat a little boy with a branch!

But it's ok to beat moneylenders in a religious place. That's better...I guess...

Jack the Bodiless · July 10, 2002, 11:39

According to the Bible, kids who insult their parents should be put to death.

We don't know if this kid insulted his parents or not, just that he "did not take his Bible verses seriously enough". Maybe they let him live because he didn't get around to blaming his parents for making him do Bible studies?

The diplomat · July 10, 2002, 12:05

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So I can go whipping people to get out of places where I don't want them...okay, check!

No you can't, you are not God! Jesus could because He is God. He went to those forceful measures because God's place of worship must be kept holy!

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
I dunno, he could have been doing evil. What if the caught him ripping the wings off flies or abusing kittens?

I would hope that a sensible person would realize that as wrong as it is to abuse animals, it would still not justify whipping a little kid with a branch.

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
But it's ok to beat moneylenders in a religious place. That's better...I guess...

Again, Jesus had the right to, because He is God!

Boris Godunov · July 10, 2002, 12:09

Jesus was God in Human form, if I understand Christian dogma correctly, and ergo just as human as the rest of us. How can he claim to have been human to save us if he had special entitlements?

But I've always been told we should follow Jesus's example. In this example, he whipped people. Ergo whipping people is a-ok for Christians. Seems pretty simple to me...

The diplomat · July 10, 2002, 12:14

Originally posted by Jack the Bodiless
According to the Bible, kids who insult their parents should be put to death.

"If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother, and his blood will be on his own head." Leviticus 20:9

It says curse not insult. There is a huge difference!