Golden Ages & Dark Age

[XarXo]

If we have GOLDEN AGES, why not DARK AGES? If you plays patheticaly bad or just lost a great war, or a long period with no new knowledges, no increased population, or simply no new cities in long time could origine a DARK AGE.

In DARK AGE it also could:

- Loose knowledges.
- Loose population (pestilence, can RAZE cities!).
- Revolts, corruption and unrest raises.
- Probably, civil war (the empire divides!).
- Loose wonders (big or small).
(more...)

For solve it, you need something enthusiastic like:

- A leader appears.
- A new wonder (no small one).
- A new knowledge.
- 3 new cities.
- Win 1 opponent city in a war (without leader).
(more...)

I believe that this could be great!

[SomeOneElse]

sounds like a good idea. needs some development, though, to make sure its balaning. what if your neighbor's in a golden age when youre in a dark age? it would be easy for them to exploit you then. even easier the other way around, i would think, for a human in a golden age to exploit an AI civ in a dark age.

[Panag]

hi ,

in a dark age the science should be going back , at a slow rate , ....corrution should be high , ...

and with the new editor , who knows , split a antion , that would be nice , ...

maybe it can be done true a mod , .....
but why should they not put it in , ....

have a nice day

[jsw363]

It's an interesting idea, but I think it would be difficult to come up with the triggering mechanism. It would have to be a complex system of events (or non-events) that would collectively show that your civilization had stagnated.

During the European Dark Ages, wars were fought, culture was produced, but technology stagnated. Many technological improvements were lost during the Dark Ages (like the advanced Roman systems of irrigation). It seems like a Dark Age is insipired by a slowdown in knowledge advancement.

[Lucilla]

Although the concept of a dark age is interesting and certainly realistic, I would be afraid that it unbalances the game.

If you play on higher levels and you are already lagging behind, imagine you get a dark age because of your bad performance. That would slow you down even more and it would be very hard to achieve one of the items you mentioned to get into normal state again.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Lucilla
Although the concept of a dark age is interesting and certainly realistic, I would be afraid that it unbalances the game.

If you play on higher levels and you are already lagging behind, imagine you get a dark age because of your bad performance. That would slow you down even more and it would be very hard to achieve one of the items you mentioned to get into normal state again.

hi ,

, a golden age does not unbalance the game neither , ....

, they could include the option of a certain year(s) , in where it happens to all civ's , except the ones that are in a golden age , they would get it after that , ...

have a nice day

[alva]

eeugh, sorry if i'm wrong but what about

" ANARCHY " , doesn't this allready simulate the Dark ages

[Panag]

Originally posted by alva848
eeugh, sorry if i'm wrong but what about

" ANARCHY " , doesn't this allready simulate the Dark ages

hi ,

, nope you could keep you government that you have , but you should get the effect of anarchy , and there should be less shield's , more corrution , and so , the reverse of a golden age , ....

have a nice night

[Purple]

If a Dark Age would be unbalancing, especially at higher levels, then the game could be rebalanced, by removing or reducing some of the AI advantage at those levels!

[Panag]

Originally posted by Purple
If a Dark Age would be unbalancing, especially at higher levels, then the game could be rebalanced, by removing or reducing some of the AI advantage at those levels!

hi ,

when used wisely , it cant be unbalancing , ....

one idea would be to put everyone true it , at a certain time , ....

have a nice day

[jsw363]

A randomly timed dark age seems like the random events that people have talked about on other threads. (i.e. a random flood, plague, fire etc. a la CivI) They were great for the newspapers (which I miss) and also added to the uniqueness of each game. I think that a dark age would be a great random event.

[Pythagoras]

Maybe it could be triggered by immense corruption. During a dark age cultural assimilation and expansion stops and civil war becomes a possibility.

[dnassman]

Don't like the idea of a dark age. Think corruption, unhappy citizens, slow science, losing a war are enough of a problem to handle. Much prefer multiple golden ages though. Imagine having two or three GAs especially if you trigger an early GA you won't miss out on the benefits of a late middle or late GA. Obviously make the multiple GA's harder to achieve. Now that would be interesting to come up with ideas.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I actually agree with the concept of a dark age and have previously suggested a possible major trigger: the loss of your Capital!!
Basically this would cause potential Civil War (a la Civ2), but also lead to massive amounts of corruption and a halving (or worse) of both culture and tech rates! The tech and culture difficulties should last a set period of time (which would be adjustable within the editor) but the corruption issue would be solved by building a new capital!
Other potential trigger, as mentioned here, could be a civil war (or revolution) sparked by large-scale unhappiness and/or corruption or if your culture rate drops below a certain threshold from the destruction of improvements and wonders or the loss of too many cities! It could also be sparked by a random event, but such a Dark Age, due to it's random nature, would have to hit ALL civs!
Anyway, just my AU$0.02c worth (or US$0.01c worth)!! Thankyou to XarXo for at least getting a debate on this issue going!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Pythagoras
Maybe it could be triggered by immense corruption. During a dark age cultural assimilation and expansion stops and civil war becomes a possibility.

hi ,

, , and the country could split in two , and if its a big one , why not in three , ......
afterall there shall be 31 civ's to chose from , ...

have a nice day

[dunk]

The Dark Age if anything should just be an opposite of the Golden Age. ie, each tile produces one less shield and one less commerce for 20 turns. That's it, you get one Dark Age and one Golden Age.

The Dark Age could be triggered by the loss of your capital, your UU losing a battle, GA triggering wonders being built by other civs.

[Carver]

Originally posted by XarXo
If we have GOLDEN AGES, why not DARK AGES? If you plays patheticaly bad or just lost a great war, or a long period with no new knowledges, no increased population, or simply no new cities in long time could origine a DARK AGE.

With all this happening it sounds like you're already in a Dark Age, wether or not it says "dark age" in the status box. This sounds like an unnecessary technicality.

[Austin]

I think a good trigger for a "Dark Age" would be if your Civ is doing really really GOOD. Having it kick in if you are doing bad is just adding a "runaway train" effect to the game, where as having a "Dark Age" hit a dominant civ is a more balancing effect.

Consider, Rome didn't start to stumble and stagnate when it was fighting for it's life against Carthage, it stagnated after it finished kicking everybody in Europe (except the Germans) and the near East's ass. The Romans got all decadant and lazy, nobody wanted to serve in the army because they were all busy having orgies with goats, and the barbarians took over.

This happened to just about everybody, as the natural inclination when you are top dog is to start slacking off. No doubt this will inevitably happen to America, if it isn't already.

So perhaps the computer could track your power relative to other civs, and when a certain ratio is reached there is X chance per turn that a "Dark Age" kicks in.

A better name for it might be "Decadant Age", as your civilization thinks that it's on top, so everybody slacks off.

One thing is that a "Dark Age" cannot occurr if you are in a "Golden Age" so you don't get cheated.

Austin

[Jay98]

I think it's a great idea!

I'd have to think about what might trigger it, possibly too much disease (think the Plague), high corruption, or consecutive combat losses without a win.

Dark ages last for 20 turns and is the opposite of Golden Age but with a twist. You lose 2 commerce and 2 shields per city per turn, and the three other civs with cities nearest to your border lose 1 each per turn.

This might force those civs to help you out of the dark ages, so maybe make a condition for ending them, like a small wonder of some kind.

[jsw363]

It would also be possible for teh computer to designate a period a "Dark Age" even if there weren't any negative effects. Perhaps if you fulfilled certain requirements related to lost production, food, increased corruption or military losses. By simply designating the period a Dark Age, without incurring further unbalacing effects.

I think it's better if a Dark Age occurs in relation to your own previous capacity and not an arbitrary standard. Then when you have to switch from Republic to Monarchy to conduct a war, you face the possibility of entering a dark age because of the decrease in your production.

[XarXo]

Originally posted by Carver

Originally posted by XarXo
If we have GOLDEN AGES, why not DARK AGES? If you plays patheticaly bad or just lost a great war, or a long period with no new knowledges, no increased population, or simply no new cities in long time could origine a DARK AGE.

With all this happening it sounds like you're already in a Dark Age, wether or not it says "dark age" in the status box. This sounds like an unnecessary technicality.

This is applicable to Golden Ages too. The idea of Dark/Golden Ages is to represent unique and special time periods that probably occur.

As Austin said:

Originally posted by Austin
Consider, Rome didn't start to stumble and stagnate when it was fighting for it's life against Carthage, it stagnated after it finished kicking everybody in Europe (except the Germans) and the near East's ass. The Romans got all decadant and lazy, nobody wanted to serve in the army because they were all busy having orgies with goats, and the barbarians took over.

Rome decayed due an inadequate militia amount enough to protect the huge borders (well, this is only the great reason). That's all. So, a Dark Age can appear if you don't have:

- Enough militar units for the amount of cities that you posses (incredibly GOOD for **** city sprawl!! Better than an artificial "city limit").

This is only one case like the others that are listed in the thread. There are lots of big empires that simply dissapear for internal problems, and Dark Age reflect this: Internal Problems.

Multiple Dark Ages? Yes, if (for example) a civ have a great trade relations with the "dark-aged" one, or an alliance an the "dark-aged" one is the mighty-powerful in the group.

Originally posted by Shakesperian
Remember a recent disaster... Something catastrophical happens inside a big empire... Something that is symbolical disappears... And if you don't manage it well, your empire could enter in a Dark Age. We have Dark Ages in modern times too, remember USA in 1929, remember Germany after the First World War, remember URSS after 1989.

Reading this, who thinks in the effects that the lost of an important cultural/social wonder like Sixtine Chapel could have? Wonders could be Terrors too... Also, a modern government type reduces the damage/probability of a Dark Age, and a bigger amount of unrest/cities increases it.

[HazieDaVampire]

One of the darkages features has to be one of the most wanted things on this forum:
CIVIL WARS AND RIVIVALS OF CIVILISATIONS!
We just want to reinact history or make up our own!
I'd also like to see a feature where you can sell back all the citys you've captured if you just fell like acting like a real world government!

[Lucilla]

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
I'd also like to see a feature where you can sell back all the citys you've captured if you just fell like acting like a real world government!

You can already trade your cities, and not only the captured ones. Although this is only advisable if you want to get rid of a (conquered) city that doesn't produce anything or is constantly in civil disorder and you want to get at least some money out of it. Sometimes I give useless cities as a gift to a friend, so he can deal with the corruption, etc.
In general: keep your cities. The more cities, the better.

[Dimorier Maximus]

You're always in the Dark Age if you aren't in your Golden Age. The game is already disadvantageous enough. Now Civil War would be a cool addition though.

[XarXo]

You're always in the Dark Age if you aren't in your Golden Age. The game is already disadvantageous enough. Now Civil War would be a cool addition though.

So, if I build 2 wonders in a turn and I obtain a leader, and I'm not in a Golden Age, I'm in a Dark Age? Sorry, but I have to say that is the GREY Age what we usually play

[Coracle]

I like the idea of Dark Ages!

If you lose your capital city and one of your two other biggest cities, a Dark Age begins. That's one way to start it.

Currently. you NEVER lose your capital; it just hops around like a jumping bean from one town to the next, which is dumb.

[HazieDaVampire]

what i meny was some kinda feature that automaticly selects all of the citys you captured in the last war, its to annoying having to sell them 1 by 1 cuz you cant remember all the citys names!

[Panag]

Originally posted by Coracle
I like the idea of Dark Ages!

If you lose your capital city and one of your two other biggest cities, a Dark Age begins. That's one way to start it.

Currently. you NEVER lose your capital; it just hops around like a jumping bean from one town to the next, which is dumb.

hi ,

, no , it should just start , and you should have the ability to set the year's , lets say from 600 to 1200 or so , ....

have a nice day

[XarXo]

Thread-Related Dark Age Triggers:

2 types:

If you have this in a short period/Instantanely:

- No capitol.
- Lost a wonder that modifies the amount of hapinness.

If you have this in a long period:

- Not enough militar units for the amount of cities that you have.
-Anarchy.
- Lost a strategic resource (that previously you had).
- Very slow rate of discovering knowledges.
- Unrest in a lot of cities.
- High corruption (better consider this as: No courthouses).
- A mighty commercial AND/OR mighty militar ally is in Dark Age, and you mantain the relations.
-Insufficient road/water routes in realtion of the empire size.

Anyone has a new one? Suggestions for the existent ones?

[Imp. Montezuma]

Great such idea!
Congratulations!
May be Firaxis guys looking that post....