Originally posted by UltraSonix on 10-17-2000 04:50 AM
its [the scenario editor of civ2] so damn roundabout to us
You're damn right!
Stuff that's been said before on this issue:
Originally posted by UltraSonix on 05-23-2000 04:18 AM
I was put off by the scenario editor being integrated with the actual game in Civ2 and SMAC - it's like putting IE with Windows, and we all saw what happened to that!
Instead, a sophisticated and dedicated scenario editor should be available, with abilities such as copy-paste (eg drag a box and copy and paste a bunch of units that you've spent ages pefecting the hit points etc, so you don't have to redo the samething over and over again if you're designing an army. Same thing goes for copy paste of cities.)
Originally posted by UltraSonix on 08-14-2000 01:28 AM
I agree with Gord McLeod - who cares if they don't even ship a single senario. Shippind a powerful/easy-to-use scenario EDITOR, now THAT's far more important. Looking on the web, you'll find lots of scenarios available for Civ2, and the method for creating them was stupid (integrated into the game).
Originally posted by Mad Lord Snapcase on 08-14-2000 04:55 PM
Oooh, I've made three summaries already on my thoughts on this subject, so maybe I shouldn't reiterate everything I've already said. If you want to look at what I wrote, take a look at Column #99, The "Comprehensive Scenario Editor" suggestion for the Essential Civilisation 3 list, and about 75% of the stuff in the Customization/Scenario Editor section of the Firaxis Forums appendix of the List v. 2.
Suffice to say I agree with Ultrasonix that the StarCraft one is the best editor created to date. Yet where that had ease of use and a good trigger system, it wasn't really as powerful for the common user as the civ2-FW editor was. There was no changing unit graphics and attributes, terrain, names, techs... You know, the reason Civ2's editor was so fun to use.
Here are the points I'd most like to see in an editor, in order of importance (this is of course assuming that what's currently available for edit in civ2 remains intact, otherwise #1 would be keeping all of those things editable and easily acessable. I used to think this was obvious, yet SMAC was definately a step back.):
1. Ease of Use. It doesn't matter how powerful an editor is if most users never get to see any of it. What I'd like to see is an editor with a good click-n-drag interface, proper documentation, a tutorial and so on so that anyone can get right in there and start working.
2. A scripting language. Ever thought about why Mods for Quake (1/2/3 as well as Half-Life) and Unreal (and Tournament) seem to be the most popular? It's because these games have proper, proprietary scripting languages, similar to C (They are called QuakeC and UnrealScript respectively), that allows the user to manipulate ingame objects in whatever way she choses. Neither of them are horribly difficult, yet both are immensely powerful. If we could get such a powerful language in a Civ game, together with a really instructional help file or text file, it would do so much.
3. A better Macro Language/Trigger System. Counters, Other events, manipulation of all game objects from within the game with maintained ease of use.
4. Edit the stuff we cannot edit today, chiefly wonders, city improvements and special properties of techs. This could be done very easily if each wonder (or whatever) was described using strings of code from the macro language.
A trigger system like the StarCraft editor has would be nice.
In fact, the WHOLE Civ3 editor should be based on the Starcraft one. Not only was the Starcraft trigger system good, it was also EASY to use.
And it goes without saying that I think the scenario editor whould be separated from the game itself (ie no cheat menu ). It was really cumbersome because while trying to design a scenario, I'll accidently continue the turn, spoiling all my hard work...