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  • Israil oversteps the mark

    Didn't the Jews learn anything in WWII, im not racist and this thread is not designed to stir that pot but im disappointed to see that the most persecuted race in history find it so easy to forget their past and are now even attacking refugees and Catholic chuches.

  • #2
    It's pretty clear Ariel Sharon doesn't want peace, judging from his televised speech yesterday.
    (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
    (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
    (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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    • #3
      What would've Jose(?) Saramago written if he had visited Aushwitz in 1944?

      In the spring of 1944, when Germany was protecting itself from the cruel terror campaign managed against it by the world Jewry, the third Reich allowed a group of famous writers to visit Treblinka, Aushwitz and Sobibor to see the life conditions in those camps. Among the invited was Jose Saramago, and he described what he saw in this document.

      "Already on the way to Aushwitz, the capitol of the future Jewish state, you can feel that life here are not like the life in the capitols of Europe. Roadblocks of the German army on the roads leading to Aushwitz cause huge traffic jams in the entrance and the exit from the camp. Jews who want to leave Aushwitz for their work in Krakow are forced to wait for long hours in the monstrous traffic jams caused by the soldiers of the German occupation who check every car that leaves the camp and search carefuly for the IDs of every Jew who wants to leave for work or to bring food for his family. Not once I saw the soldiers humiliate the Jews and even abuse them. I saw with my own eyes a soldier throwing the ID of a Jewish reporter on the floor and asking him to pick it up. With my own eyes I saw a young German soldier aiming and firing rubber bullets on a group of Jewish kids who were only throwing stones and Molotovs on him."

      "But this is nothing compared to the reaction of the Germans to the bombing of a train filled with gas baloons that was about to enter Aushwitz to supply gas to the residents of the camp. Immediately after the teract, in which 9 soldiers were killed I saw German soldiers, armed to the teeth, passing from house to house scaring innocent families. With my own eyes I saw them breaking a wall and entering stright into the living room of a scared Jewish family in the middle of their dinner. The little children started crying and the parents had to calm them down while the German soldiers opened desks and searched for bombs. When the soldiers left the small apartment of the shocked family, they left a horrible mess after them."

      "The rude behavior of the soldiers is unthinkable. Some of the Nazi soldiers who invaded the houses of the Jews in Aushwitz arranged the family in one room while the soldiers were lying in their sweaty uniforms on the beds of the Jews without taking off their boots. Such brutal behavior enraged the fighters in the Jewish organizations who opened fire on the German soldiers. The Germans retaliated with tank fire and killed 17 Jewish fighters and five more Jewish civilians who didnt participate in the fighting and were accidently in the middle of the fighting between the Jewish fighters protecting Aushwitz and the German troops."

      "When the Germans couldnt accomplish their goal and bring the Jewish organizations to a cease fire the German occupation authorities decided, as ordered by the Fuhrer, to humiliate the Jewish leader of Aushwitz. Tanks surrounded his compound, and he was not allowed to go to Birkenau to a conference of the leaders of the Jewish camps all over Europe. This attempt achieved the opposite result, and the support for the Jewish leader increased. In the moment the world discovered about his house arrest, Jewish and non-Jewish leaders from around the world started flowing to Aushwitz to support the humiliated Jewish leader."

      "Eventually, because of the protests around the world, the Germans had to withdraw their forces from Aushwitz and the feeling among the Jews was a feeling of victory. When the Germans tanks were retreating from the camp Jewish children were running after them, destroying the antennas and the third reich flags on the tanks and burning them infront of the German armors. 'look on them! you can really see the feeling of defeat in the their eyes!' called a Jewish boy while throwing molotov bottle on the tank."

      "But behind the momentary euforia of the Jews, Aushwitz stays Aushwitz. The suffering of the population is unbelievable. The retreating German soldiers fired on the warm water boilers on the roofs of the Aushwitz homes and the residents of the camp were forced to shower in the cold water of spring 1944. Some soldiers broke the windows of Jewish luxury stores, and even plundered siggaretes and beer cans.
      A tank crew turned on a speaker playing the German anthem, hurting the feeling of the Aushwitz Jews."

      "The citizens of Aushwitz told about two cases when German roadblock soldiers prevented Jewish pregnant women from going to the hospital in Krakow and cause the death of two babies. An old Jew who suffered a severe teeth pains was forced to walk on foot from Aushwitz to Birkenau to get a treatment from a local dentist specializing in gold teeth".

      "From the reports of the humanitarian organizations working in the different camps, in the last 15 months, from January 1943 to this spring of 1944 at least 1200 Jews died in Birkenau, Aushwitz, Sobibor and Treblinka, while the German casualties are only 400, in clashes with Jewish freedom fighters. A simple math shows that in all these camps, in average, 3 Jews were killed every day! As a humanist writer and the Nobel prize laureat I can say this : The horror of Aushwitz, like i've seen with my own eyes, can only be compared to what Jews will be doing in 60 years to Palestinians in Rammalah."
      "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

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      • #4
        So is that a condemnation of your own nations terror tactics Eli?
        Speaking of Erith:

        "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Provost Harrison
          So is that a condemnation of your own nations terror tactics Eli?
          "Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" - Commissioner Pravin Lal.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Provost Harrison
            So is that a condemnation of your own nations terror tactics Eli?
            No, he's trying to show you how absolutely insanely absurd it is to compare current events to the Holocaust!

            You're free to speak up against these "terror tactics" if you like, but then you'll have to make your point relevant to the current situation. Israel is NOT rounding up civilians and sending them off to be gassed to death and burned to ashes.
            "Politics is to say you are going to do one thing while you're actually planning to do someting else - and then you do neither."
            -- Saddam Hussein

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            • #7
              But he didn't really compare it to the Holocaust... he simply said, didn't they learn anything from WW2 and how wrong it is to persecute other races.

              A perfectly valid statement.
              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                But he didn't really compare it to the Holocaust... he simply said, didn't they learn anything from WW2 and how wrong it is to persecute other races.

                A perfectly valid statement.
                I think the Jews have learned quite a lot from WWII

                1. Not to trust Europeans who talk with high sounding words
                2. When a country or countries talk about getting rid of the Jewish problem, they damn well better pay attention
                3. Leaders that talk about peace today could very well be using guns the next day to enforce their brand of peace

                And

                4. Not to trust on the goodwill of others while your people are at risk. Especially when your enemies produce something that "others" need.


                *********Question For Anyone That Knows

                Why is it that the Jordanians, Leboneses and Egyptians didn't want to absorb the Palastienians into their populations instead of setting up camps that they have lived in for generations? Are the camps their expression of Pan Arabic brotherhood?

                What exactly did the Europeans do to help the Jews in 1948 when they were attacked on all sides by Arabs?
                Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Guardian


                  No, he's trying to show you how absolutely insanely absurd it is to compare current events to the Holocaust!

                  You're free to speak up against these "terror tactics" if you like, but then you'll have to make your point relevant to the current situation. Israel is NOT rounding up civilians and sending them off to be gassed to death and burned to ashes.


                  Whether the exact same chain of events happened, this does not make the current events any less wrong at all. Israel is acting like a bunch of thugs, and oppressing a population for political expediency. They'd hate to lose face. It's really quite sickening.
                  Speaking of Erith:

                  "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why is it that the Jordanians, Leboneses and Egyptians didn't want to absorb the Palastienians into their populations instead of setting up camps that they have lived in for generations? Are the camps their expression of Pan Arabic brotherhood?


                    Why is that that the United States didn't want to absorb Haitian refugees? Why did we go in the country instead and change things around?

                    Why don't we accept any refugee that wants to come here?

                    What exactly did the Europeans do to help the Jews in 1948 when they were attacked on all sides by Arabs?


                    Why should they have done anything? Except the British, they really didn't back the carving out of a Jewish homeland in Arabic Palestine. Why didn't the homeland for the Jews come out of Germany?
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Provost Harrison
                      Israel is acting like a bunch of thugs, and oppressing a population for political expediency.
                      The surrounding Arab states are doing the same thing. In many ways, they are worse. Israel isn't occupying the West Bank for political reasons; they're doing it for their own survival. The Arab states, on the other hand, allow the Pals to live in the squalor of the refugee camps because it provides a powerful tool for Arab leaders to use to destabalize Israel and maintain their own corrupt regimes. Yet we never hear the international community protesting the cynical actions of the Arab states. I guess some people just find it easier to blame the whole problem on Israel, irregardless of the truth.
                      KH FOR OWNER!
                      ASHER FOR CEO!!
                      GUYNEMER FOR OT MOD!!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

                        Why should they have done anything? Except the British, they really didn't back the carving out of a Jewish homeland in Arabic Palestine. Why didn't the homeland for the Jews come out of Germany?


                        I could not refuse to answer this question.

                        That part of the Middle East has a rich historical heritage for Christianity, Islam, and Judahism.

                        Israel is far more suitable for Jews today, because of the historical roots there. What Israel needs to do, is welcome the possibility of citizenship for Muslims and Christians as well, given that these two religions also have roots there. And Israel is already doing that.
                        A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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                        • #13
                          Why is that that the United States didn't want to absorb Haitian refugees? Why did we go in the country instead and change things around?

                          Why don't we accept any refugee that wants to come here?

                          When has the US ever expressed brotherhood with the Hatian people? The US never claimed to support their causes. The US has been rather blunt when it comes to refuges of any kind. (except the confused policy with Cuba) The Arabs on the other hand talk about brotherhood and the well being of the Pal people. Then they put them up in camps on the border so that there will always be a breeding ground for contempt that they can then turn against Israel. That and they don't want large numbers of Palastinians in their country causing trouble.

                          Why should they have done anything? Except the British, they really didn't back the carving out of a Jewish homeland in Arabic Palestine. Why didn't the homeland for the Jews come out of Germany?
                          Then why should Isreal give a damn about what the Euros want now. Why should they accept them as impartial when in the past the Euros didnt care if the ARABS destroyed their lives.
                          Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We are evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that. --Saul Tigh

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Israel is far more suitable for Jews today, because of the historical roots there.


                            Um... and the Muslims don't have historicall roots there? I mean close to 1000 years ownership of the site would, I think, give some sort of historical right to the area.
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Then why should Isreal give a damn about what the Euros want now. Why should they accept them as impartial when in the past the Euros didnt care if the ARABS destroyed their lives.


                              Who is saying anything about the Europeans?

                              IIRC, US President Bush has been calling for withdrawl 'without delay', and the US has been thought to be an Israeli ally.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment

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