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  • #46
    Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
    'society' can put capital together? This isn't utopia.


    Yes. People can produce far more than they need to survive, hence the viablity of capitalism in the first place. If, in a communist society, we decided to make the resources avaialbe for personal computers to be created, it wouldn't be much of a problem at all.

    Apple Computer would have died if a venture capitalist hadn't funded them to mass produce computers.


    That's because they did it in a capitalist society. In a communist society they wouldn't need a venture capitalist.

    Profit is what drives technological progress. Technology that isn't widespread really isn't progress at all. And leads to the spread of technology? That's right, the profit motive and mass production that can only happen through the corporation.


    In capitalism yes. In a free society, no. And who says that technology wouldn't be widespread in a free communist society. We have the internet (developed by the public sector) to spread ideas. We have the public airwaves to spread ideas. We would have magzines and newspapers to spread ideas. Why do you think that a communist society would be a parochial one?

    capitalism is the reality. Get used to it .


    For now.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
      Three guys in a garage created the first Apple computer. They did this out of the love of making computers. Once the concept is demonstrated, society could easily put the capital together to create a collective for making computers.


      'society' can put capital together? This isn't utopia.

      Apple Computer would have died if a venture capitalist hadn't funded them to mass produce computers.

      Profit is what drives technological progress. Technology that isn't widespread really isn't progress at all. And leads to the spread of technology? That's right, the profit motive and mass production that can only happen through the corporation.

      Communism is a pipe dream, capitalism is the reality. Get used to it .
      society puts capital together all the time

      technology does follow profit

      technology gets done if society is willing to pay for it

      people have made capitalism the reality

      I think it is a pretty poor reality

      Jon Miller
      Jon Miller-
      I AM.CANADIAN
      GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

      Comment


      • #48
        In a communist society they wouldn't need a venture capitalist.


        No, because only those three and their friends would have had an Apple and everyone else would be SOL .

        And who says that technology wouldn't be widespread in a free communist society.


        Look through history... technological change follows when the profit motive is highest. As capitalism became more widespread and developed, technological progress followed.

        Capitalism and technology are just about intertwined. They depend on each other.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.â€
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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        • #49
          Technology is a means to profit, but sometimes the means to profit is the suppression of technology. In these cases, technology is suppresed, sometimes for generations, as in the case of car air bags. For another example of the suppression of technology, see the movie, Tucker.

          In a communist society, the increase of technology would be persued in order for people's lives to be made better by technology, not because someone can sell something. If you think that a democratic communist society would have decided that it didn't need computers, then you are a great fool, Imran.
          Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
            In a communist society they wouldn't need a venture capitalist.


            No, because only those three and their friends would have had an Apple and everyone else would be SOL .

            And who says that technology wouldn't be widespread in a free communist society.


            Look through history... technological change follows when the profit motive is highest. As capitalism became more widespread and developed, technological progress followed.

            Capitalism and technology are just about intertwined. They depend on each other.
            no they don't

            now science and what people want are connected

            and capitalism connects them through profit

            but communism can connect them as well

            by providing labs and training in the areas that people want

            Jon Miller
            Jon Miller-
            I AM.CANADIAN
            GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

            Comment


            • #51
              Jon, see how arguments about communism necessarily lead to discussions beyond simple public ownership of the means of production. It's tangentially related, yes, but technology and capitalism is a different discussion. Because capitalism touches all aspects of our lives, we need to have an idea of how socialism will change this relationship for the better.
              Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

              Comment


              • #52
                In a communist society, the increase of technology would be persued in order for people's lives to be made better by technology, not because someone can sell something. If you think that a democratic communist society would have decided that it didn't need computers, then you are a great fool, Imran.


                Then I'm a great fool

                I don't think computers and the internet revolution would have occured if say... the Great Depression led to a communist state. Sorry... the computer revolution took place because of capitalism.. there was money to be made (who would have decided it was needed back in the late 70s?)
                “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.â€
                - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                  Jon, see how arguments about communism necessarily lead to discussions beyond simple public ownership of the means of production. It's tangentially related, yes, but technology and capitalism is a different discussion. Because capitalism touches all aspects of our lives, we need to have an idea of how socialism will change this relationship for the better.
                  we are still discussing ownership of the means of production

                  Jon Miller
                  Jon Miller-
                  I AM.CANADIAN
                  GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Why can't we spam this thread?

                    Communist censorship

                    Bloody communist control freaks
                    Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                    Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Spammity, spam, spam.
                      I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                      For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        I spam for capitalism!
                        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.â€
                        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                          I spam for capitalism!
                          and ytou were discussing things

                          Jon Miller
                          Jon Miller-
                          I AM.CANADIAN
                          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
                            Why can't we spam this thread?
                            It's not like we can stop you. We'd just rather you didn't.
                            Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by chegitz guevara


                              It's not like we can stop you. We'd just rather you didn't.
                              Yes but you would if you could - it would be off to the gulags for old horsie
                              Any views I may express here are personal and certainly do not in any way reflect the views of my employer. Tis the rising of the moon..

                              Look, I just don't anymore, okay?

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
                                Yes but you would if you could - it would be off to the gulags for old horsie
                                Horsie is persona non grata!
                                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                                Comment

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