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Israel has never lost a conventional war, or won a guerilla war

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  • #46
    How does the Isreali reaction to it compare to that of Russia, a State critical of Isreal's recent actions, reaction to its problems in Chechnya? We could even see how it compares against the actions of another critic, China, in dealing with thier own problems with Islamists.


    And we've condemned both for it... harshly. But not Israel.

    Because it is true.


    No it isn't. In Nicaragua, our guerrilas was to the Communists, terrorists. They are very similar.

    Only that he make a genuine effort to try. Something which he has never done at any step of the peace process.


    Nothing will ever be good enough. Israel will never be happy with any attempts.
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
      Open access // by Philippe Rekacewicz (Le Monde diplomatique - English edition, September 2001)


      As you can see since what was Proposed in 2000 at Camp David, significant areas have been annexed.

      Err... I don't know who drew your map bud, but this is quite different from all the maps I've seen...

      You should visit a more reliable source.

      www.mideastweb.org or something

      (let's hope I gave him the correct link. i have dozens of those. I wouldn't want him to discover my secret palestinian porn stash. )

      Nothing will ever be good enough. Israel will never be happy with any attempts.

      Not true.

      Israel will be happy by some serious attempts.

      But when he arrests people that are small fish, and on the TV his spokesmen say that it's a sherade for the world, what should i think?

      Comment


      • #48
        You should visit a more reliable source.


        Than Le Monde?
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

        Comment


        • #49
          Yes!

          Never trust a frenchman!

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Saint Marcus


            You support Franco, who also was a dictator. So don't start this democracy hypocracy.


            And this comes from a guy who support Stalin.
            For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

            Comment


            • #51
              ****.

              That site hasn't the updated map.

              anyway, it's more than this.

              If you go to look at the map @ mideastweb.org, you'll see that it's the same map, but it is noted "this is not the updated map, israel added 10% more to that".

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                And we've condemned both for it... harshly. But not Israel.
                No, we haven't. The issue doesn't even rate as having any import.

                No it isn't. In Nicaragua, our guerrilas was to the Communists, terrorists. They are very similar.


                I'm refering to what people are, not what you choose to call them. Would you try giving me an objective reason why terrorists can reasonablly called guerrilas?

                Nothing will ever be good enough. Israel will never be happy with any attempts.


                Well, he might actually try shutting down his revolving door of a correctional system and see what happens.
                I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                Comment


                • #53
                  No, we haven't. The issue doesn't even rate as having any import.


                  Ask Russia what they thought about the rebukes we've given them... same with China.

                  I'm refering to what people are, not what you choose to call them. Would you try giving me an objective reason why terrorists can reasonablly called guerrilas?


                  Because they engage in similar activities. Guerrilas easily become terrorists, and have in the past. It is only a hop, skip, and a jump from attacking soldiers using guerilla tactics to attacking the civilians that back the enemy soliders.

                  Well, he might actually try shutting down his revolving door of a correctional system and see what happens.


                  Does anyone know how much jail space there is in Palestine? That, and politics makes him have to release a few after a short while.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                    Ask Russia what they thought about the rebukes we've given them... same with China.
                    Ask them when was the last time we gave them a "stern" rebuke.

                    Because they engage in similar activities.


                    Civilians are not part and parcel of a guerilla's strategy. They do not actively seek to kill civilians. More often than not, they do not hide behind citizens hoping that the prospect of more innocent deaths will help them escape retribution.

                    Guerrilas easily become terrorists, and have in the past. It is only a hop, skip, and a jump from attacking soldiers using guerilla tactics to attacking the civilians that back the enemy soliders.


                    So your objection to saying that guerillas are different from terrorists is that they (guerillas) can become terrorists? Aren't you basically conceeding that there is a difference between the too forms of warfare?

                    Does anyone know how much jail space there is in Palestine?


                    If you don't have the space to hold them, execute them. It isn't like he hasn't been shy about that for lesser offenses.

                    That, and politics makes him have to release a few after a short while.


                    Which goes to the heart of why he is apparently impotent to offer Isreal any security guarantees in exchange from withdrawing from the Occupied Territories.
                    I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                    For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      And this comes from a guy who support Stalin.
                      At least I don't change my opinions every single week.

                      First you're all pro-Franco, in such an extend that everyone here on the forum flamed you for it. Then you changed and now your sig says that democracy is great. New week, new flavor.

                      Giancarlo: "Franco is my hero, I love Franco!"
                      Rest of OT: "shut up fascist"
                      Giancarlo: "Oh, ok. Democracy is great, down with dictatorships!"

                      And me supporting Stalin? Only when having to chose between him and Hitler. Though I do believe the best governement would be a benevolent dictator. Sadly, there aren't many of those around.
                      Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

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                      • #56
                        Listen up: I don't change my opinions every week. But have to moderate my views a bit... Franco did save Spain from socialist tyranny and economic meltdown, but I support the Partido Popular more (pp.es) which is democratically elected and is the current ruling party in Spain.

                        Now back to Israel...
                        For there is [another] kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions -- indifference, inaction, and decay. This is the violence that afflicts the poor, that poisons relations between men because their skin has different colors. - Bobby Kennedy (Mindless Menance of Violence)

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          But have to moderate my views a bit
                          again?
                          Quod Me Nutrit Me Destruit

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            [QUOTE] Originally posted by paiktis22


                            Paiktis:

                            Please either keep to the topic of the thread, or start your own.

                            LOTM
                            "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Hey I was here yesterday. Since then nothing!

                              But respecting your wish.

                              Conventional wars are easier to win assuming you have superiority in weapons and a bunch of good generals.

                              Gorilla wars are harder to win.
                              There, on topic

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                                Open access // by Philippe Rekacewicz (Le Monde diplomatique - English edition, September 2001)


                                As you can see since what was Proposed in 2000 at Camp David, significant areas have been annexed.


                                Thank you for your map, imram. It confirms that the PA was offered 95% of the territories at Camp David, including land where many settlements exist. Most of the annexations are in areas immediately adjacent to (a rifle shot from?) heavily populated areas in metro Jerusalem and metro Tel Aviv, in pre-67 Israel. In addition, as your map does not make clear, there was discussion of compensating the Palestinians with land from pre-67 Israel. It is clear why President Clinton was so angered at the PA reaction to Camp David.

                                So, Imram, now that Dubya has found Arafat just as excriatingly frustrating to work with as Clinton did, at least we have bi-partisan consensus

                                LOTM
                                "A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber

                                Comment

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