Okay, I have found one more thing that kind of stinks. The age-old build Manhattan project and everyone gets nukes rule is STILL in place!
I see that someone else here has purchased the strategy guide as well, and has done an excellent job of getting some info out to boot. Good show Andrew. In any event there are two major things that disappointed me after my purchase of the Strategy Guide.
1. Government types are as rigid and boring as they are in Civ 2. From what I gather, Democracy is still nye-worthless for war, adn Communism is nye-worthless for science. Worst of all though, there is no real reason not to be Communism or Democracy. In other words, whatever the older govs do, the new ones do better.
2. There has been what looks like an increasing Civ-2-esque governement. From the description of some of the higher difficulty levels, it sounds like they just heap tons of unhappiness on you. So it will be more like the computer trying to create challenges for the player, rather than acting in a realistic way.
oh yeah, one other HUGE disappointment
3. Elvis is confirmed as being OUT!
I haven't had a chance to read it terrribly throughly but that is what I have gathered thus far. In spite of the bad news i have posted, there is really quite a bit to be excited about.
On the plus side though, here is quote from the last page, which is an interview with Sid.
Prima: One Final question, Civilization IV. Have you thought whether you'd like to do Civ IV and, if so, what might it be like?
Sid: That's a good question. If the fans still want more after Civ III, then we'll talk about giving them more.
http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
Okay, I have found one more thing that kind of stinks. The age-old build Manhattan project and everyone gets nukes rule is STILL in place!
http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
Here's something else odd, Americans are classified under the same Global Culture as the Zulus, Iroquois, and Aztecs. Would they not make more sense grouped with the European cultures? I'm sure we have had better relations with European powers than with the indigonous peoples of America.
http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
This is several months old news, Monkspider. If you want to share info from this new strategy guide - at least give us unknown, not previously puplicized stuff instead. Besides; some prefered SE, and some other really prefer the Civ-govs system (me, for instance). Whats "rigid" and "boring" is a matter of subjectivity. Go for the objective facts, first and foremost - try to keep subjective whining out from these initial posts, please.Originally posted by monkspider
1. Government types are as rigid and boring as they are in Civ 2.
Good (old) news!From what I gather, Democracy is still nye-worthless for warCiv-democracy has so many strong & positive benefits associated with it, anyway. Allowing unhindered & problemless world-conquering wars under democracy, with Alexander/Napoleon/Hitler-style landgrabbing war-objectives would make this Gov waaay to powerful.
Why not post direct quotes from this strategy-guide instead? Exactly what benefits/disadvantages has despotism, monarchy, republic, communism & democracy, respectively?Worst of all though, there is no real reason not to be Communism or Democracy. In other words, whatever the older govs do, the new ones do better.
Give us objective FACTS - not your personal viewpoints.
Last edited by Ralf; October 28, 2001 at 04:38.
The guide is wrong. The Man. Proj. is already confirmed as a Small Wonder. A lot of the info in the guide was not updated in time.Originally posted by monkspider
The age-old build Manhattan project and everyone gets nukes rule is STILL in place!
Eine Spritze gegen Schmerzen, bitte.
This little 'fault' has made me decide not to even bother with the strat guide for sure now [ok, maybe I won't buy it, but a peak is acceptable, right?].Originally posted by Falconius
The guide is wrong. The Man. Proj. is already confirmed as a Small Wonder. A lot of the info in the guide was not updated in time.
Elvis is out? Thank the Maker! The tackiness level of that old icon is beyond measuring.
Plus I don't like Elvis' music.
who needs a strat guide when that's what skool is for ? This is not exactly Tomb Raider where they stick damn levers and hidden passages all over the place ya know...
My son and I have argued over this ever since we started to play Civ 1 nearly 10 years ago!Originally posted by monkspider
From the description of some of the higher difficulty levels, it sounds like they just heap tons of unhappiness on you. So it will be more like the computer trying to create challenges for the player, rather than acting in a realistic way.
He finds the whole issue of population happiness a bore and just wants to get on with the other aspects of the game.
I feel that it's an integral part of running a nation. One of the major factors for any ruler is that, regardless of what he does strategically to conquer or stay ahead of the rest of the world, he must first of all maintain control of his own country. And there is no perfect way to maintain this control -- whatever method has been tried through history, there has always been a downside.
The Civ games abstract this level of control in the form of city happiness, and, in my opinion, it works very well, except for sometimes seeming to be a bit too much of a predictable formula. But if you want to just build barracks and crank out military units without any consideration of the other aspects of ruling, it seems like there are lots of other games out there for you.
Meanwhile, what could make for a better "difficulty level" determiner than how tough it is to stay in control of your own people? None of us like AI cheats, so this seems like a great solution to me.
As to Civ 3, we'll soon see how it plays out, but I think the effect of the luxury resources will make things more interesting. And "war weariness" sounds more real and less formulaic than in the past.
As we say in the software industry, that's not a bug, it's a feature. Communism and Democracy are supposed to make Monarchy and Republic obsolete. They are more advanced, more modern forms of government.Originally posted by monkspider
1. Government types are as rigid and boring as they are in Civ 2. From what I gather, Democracy is still nye-worthless for war, adn Communism is nye-worthless for science. Worst of all though, there is no real reason not to be Communism or Democracy. In other words, whatever the older govs do, the new ones do better.
Firaxis - please make an updated version of Colonization! That game was the best, even if it was a little un-PC.
What did you expect, of coarse monarchy and older tech govs are going to be obselete. I'm happy about elvis being out, though that manhattan project thing really scared me for a second. That seriously annoyed me in civ2. I always thought why should i build, if someone else builds it then i can use nukes without that damn wonder
For sure! This guides are all a crap.Originally posted by Falconius
The guide is wrong. The Man. Proj. is already confirmed as a Small Wonder. A lot of the info in the guide was not updated in time.
Burn them all!
Re: Re: Dark clouds on the horizon revealed after purchase of the strategy guide
Very good points. Totally agree.Originally posted by old dog
One of the major factors for any ruler is that, regardless of what he does strategically to conquer or stay ahead of the rest of the world, he must first of all maintain control of his own country. And there is no perfect way to maintain this control -- whatever method has been tried through history, there has always been a downside.
The Civ games abstract this level of control in the form of city happiness, and, in my opinion, it works very well, except for sometimes seeming to be a bit too much of a predictable formula. But if you want to just build barracks and crank out military units without any consideration of the other aspects of ruling, it seems like there are lots of other games out there for you.
Meanwhile, what could make for a better "difficulty level" determiner than how tough it is to stay in control of your own people? None of us like AI cheats, so this seems like a great solution to me.
As to Civ 3, we'll soon see how it plays out, but I think the effect of the luxury resources will make things more interesting. And "war weariness" sounds more real and less formulaic than in the past.
Re: Re: Dark clouds on the horizon revealed after purchase of the strategy guide
Maybe. But note that Despotism, in CivI, was so cleverly conceived that it stopped being obsolete, and became viable again, in the Modern Age.Originally posted by albiedamned
As we say in the software industry, that's not a bug, it's a feature. Communism and Democracy are supposed to make Monarchy and Republic obsolete. They are more advanced, more modern forms of government.
You say cleverly conceived, I say misconceived. I doubt they meant it that way!Originally posted by Comrade Tribune
Maybe. But note that Despotism, in CivI, was so cleverly conceived that it stopped being obsolete, and became viable again, in the Modern Age.
Firaxis - please make an updated version of Colonization! That game was the best, even if it was a little un-PC.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Dark clouds on the horizon revealed after purchase of the strategy guide
But, of course! Where have you spent the last century?Originally posted by albiedamned
I doubt they meant it that way!
Modern Despotism = Fascism.
I would have like to be able to mix and match parts of a government policy as you could in SMAC. But I guess there will be enough new stuff like culture to keep me busy.
I'm trying to contain an outbreak here and you're driving the monkey to the airport! Hank Hill
Hey monkspider why whine about limited goverments when they include a editor to make your own. I think the goverments they chose to be in the game where not that great either but thats what the editor is for.
"How must the man be constituted who will lead Germany back to her old heights?" The man, should be a dictator not averse to the use of slogans, street parades and demagoguery. He must be a man of the people yet have nothing in common with the mass. Like every great man, he must be "all personality," and one who"does not shrink from bloodshed. Great questions are always decided by blood and iron." To reach his goal, he must be prepared "to trample on his closest friends," dispense law "with terrible hardness" and deal with people and nations "with cautious and sensitive fingers" or if need be "trample on them with the boots of a grenadier." ---Rudolf Hess
I think that there are at least 3 problems for using editor for this purpose:Originally posted by facistdictator
Hey monkspider why whine about limited goverments when they include a editor to make your own. I think the goverments they chose to be in the game where not that great either but thats what the editor is for.
1) IIRC, you cannot create new government, you can only modify existing ones
2) AI will not be able to understand value of the modified governments
3) You need to play test the whole game several times, before you will find that new government does not misbalance the game. It can be fun for someone, but usually it is not.
As for me, even though I prefer to have more useful government types, I will stick to original game design, unless somebody resolves all 3 points above (like official CIV III expansion)
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so
certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russell
What I noticed is that they replaced Elvis with Groucho!!
I don't mean to seem like a "whiner" or a "foolish, sharing-old news guy". From what I recall, there were a large number of Apolyton members who wanted some of the anchient governments to still have some kind of advantage in the late game that makes them viable. Otherwise, you are left with only two government choices and that would probably fit most people's definition of "rigid" and/or "boring". Also, if the Manhattan project news is incorrect, then that's wonderful news indeed.
Also, extreme unhappiness on higher difficulty levels seems to me to be indicative of an incapable AI that can win by no other means.
I don't mean to rain on people's proverbial parade by reporting this. With the game's release a scant two days away, I'm sure everyone here is pretty pumped. I am as well. But let us not let our excitement cloud our judgement, if at all possible.
http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
Dark Clouds! Yikes!
...I bet I could find a way to win the game with Monarchy!
I am an expert at it... For 4 years I never tried any other government! Then I found Fundamentalism
-->Visit CGN!
-->"Production! More Production! Production creates Wealth! Production creates more Jobs!"-Wendell Willkie -1944
Hey Monkspider, don't listen to Ralf. If he thinks postings about the strategy guide should be value neutral - let him buy the damn thing and make a thread they way he thinks it should be done. Quit being such a thread facist, Ralf.
I don't care for it either. Good riddance!Plus I don't like Elvis' music.
- "A picture may be worth a thousand words, but it still ain't a part number." - Ron Reynolds
- I went to Zanarkand, and all I got was this lousy aeon!
- "... over 10 members raised complaints about you... and jerk was one of the nicer things they called you" - Ming
Don't be dissing Ralf, he has more common sense in his earlobe than most of you have in your brains...combined.
That's about how it happened in real life.Originally posted by monkspider
build Manhattan project and everyone gets nukes rule is STILL in place!
A hypothetical question. Would any of you have bought Civ2 if you had the crappy Civ2 Strategy Guide before hand?
Yes I would of still bought it.. I put very little faith in strategy guides.Originally posted by Steve Clark
A hypothetical question. Would any of you have bought Civ2 if you had the crappy Civ2 Strategy Guide before hand?
I've never seen a reason to BUY a strategy guide for games like Civ. Why bother when we have sites like this one to provide us better information for free
Keep on Civin'
RIP Baron O
Is that in all ages? Are you certain?Originally posted by Jaybe
What I noticed is that they replaced Elvis with Groucho!!
Heh. Watch out for the old-news NazisOriginally posted by monkspider
I don't mean to seem like a "whiner" or a "foolish, sharing-old news guy".
IMHO this is one of the most disappointing aspects of CIV III. Hopefully it will be relatively simple to mod the game like in CTP....[SIZE=1]From what I recall, there were a large number of Apolyton members who wanted some of the anchient governments to still have some kind of advantage in the late game that makes them viable. Otherwise, you are left with only two government choices and that would probably fit most people's definition of "rigid" and/or "boring".
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness... T. Jefferson "The Declaration of Independence"
YDNRC (You did not remember correctly).Originally posted by MxM
IIRC, you cannot create new government, you can only modify existing ones
http://www.civ3.com/asktheteam_092801.cfm
"As far as general advice on mod-making: Go slow as far as adding new things to the game until you have the basic game all smoothed out ... Make sure the things you change are really imbalances and not just something that doesn't fit with your particular style of play." - WesW
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks