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Thread: Social Model v3.0

  1. #181
    Mark_Everson
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    Originally posted by LDiCesare

    But a tile with only people of the main ethnicity would want salves from other ethnicities. Can the merchants code handle slaves?
    Not yet, but it would be fairly easy to make slaves a commodity.

  2. #182
    yellowdaddy
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    !
    Last edited by yellowdaddy; August 27, 2005 at 15:55.
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  3. #183
    yellowdaddy
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    Civil rights - increase research efficiency, lowers military morale (discipline).

    Slavery - Should create slave social classes, but in which ethnic groups? This population would have a special economic role, but I don't know how to model that. Slaves should have a positive productivity effect but a negative effect as they should increase the likelihood of riotting and would revolt often. Thus a high slavery score would mean lower wages for the same productivity but higher likelihood of riots.
    .
    Civil rights - I agree with your two, and I'd suggest perhaps adding a moderate increase in migration occurances? - people are more free to move about the country and all - even out of the country(?). Probably the best thing to do for now is to tie the bonus to the population limit before migration occurs, so that if it is 5000 @ civil rights of 60, then it is 10,000 @ civil rights of 10 and 1,000 @ civil rights of 100 - just for example, in reality it probably shouldn't be this much of a difference.

    Slavery - For now, I'd just have it give a bonus to production, and increased chances of riots - it doesn't really matter that the rioting might come from the wrong group, that's a minor detail that can be fixed later since we'd need to build a better interface to toggle slavery for different groups.
    Slavery - I think that slavery should also have an affect on technology. Specifically what slavery does is make some people more wealthy, and thus able to pursue various technological ideas. It should work something like a function depending on the number of slaves per capita gives an overall modest benefit to technologies in general. However, the presence of slaves does tend to suppress labor-saving investments and ideas IMO. Therefore similarly to the overall tech bonus there should be a significant decrease in effective RP's going into technological areas such as agriculture, resource extraction, and others.

    On which group you get slaves from, I have the following idea. I will just phrase it in words, because I expect you can easily turn it into an equation, Laurent. If significant ethnic or religious discrimination exists in the civilization, and the slaves will all be of the unfavored ethnic or religious groups. If there is very little discrimination, then slaves will tend to be spread roughly evenly across the civilization ethnic groups, including the "ruling" group.
    It seems clear to me that Slavery is a level of Civil Rights; not a separate category.
    Mark's comments seem to highlight this - slavery equating to the level of civil rights of a discriminated ethno-religious (or socio-economic) group or groups.

    I agree that slavery increases economic wealth; it also increases dependence on slavery, doesn't it? Slavery and the next level up Indentured Labour and then Immigrant Labour keep Operative (aka Working) Class wages low, and create/sustain wealth gap. The rioting is not going to take place among the slaves (unless they get an educated leader: a Sam Sharpe), but among the Operative Classes who are expecting an increase in living standards/civil rights/wealth to match the economic growth that slaves bring.
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  4. #184
    alms66
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    Originally posted by Lord God Jinnai
    Foreign Policy - I agree with both of alms66's points, exception more isolationist socieites would get bonuses to stability (ie fewer riots, fewers DoIs). And could infact make advances in infrastucture much faster to their current tech level the province would support. Of course all elements dealing with outside world suffer (or perhaps benift in a few cases).
    Speaking of stability, are there currently variables to track the overall stability of a tile, province and civ? If not, we should add that to the list of things to do. Afterall, instability does have a nasty tendancy to spread. One only need look at the civil wars throughout Africa spilling over borders into neighboring nations or druglords running rampant in South/Central America for examples of why this would be a good addition to the game. Stability would obviously have far-reaching effects, so it needs to be more difficult to raise than lower. Quite frankly, with such far-reaching effects, maybe we should do a "sub-model" write up for it first?

  5. #185
    LDiCesare
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    Although it's not coded, the model has an Empire Stability variable. Certain events (civil wars...) will decrease the stability.
    There's also provision for a circumstance term in the social model, but it's never been defined anywhere how it would be computed. It's supposed to raise when the ruler does bad things like bribing, using goon squads...
    Last, independance events spread to neighbouring provinces.
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