maybe a bit depressed

[Pekka]

My only advice is DON"T OVERTHINK IT.
Relationships rarely are "LOGICAL"

This x infinity. How do you experienced guys deal with these things? What do you do. I've been a smartass for so long as I usually end up teaching experienced professional men how to do things, yet when it comes to the matters of heart, it seems like I know nothing. I am a horrible introspective overanalyser.

[rah]

I ignore a lot and apologize a lot.
Fortunately as I get older, I can pretend my hearing is worse than it is.
If it was easy, no one would ever breakup or divorce.
I don't have to like my wife everyday, just love her.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

...I've been spending a terrific amount of time working on making friends with and taming my mother's feral cats. And you know? I've gone in four months from they run/hide from me like I'm a big mean dog to I'm petting both of them. -And still, they're cats, they're never going to be docile lap pets, and as attached as I've become, I have to not let myself get torn to pieces when they don't show up for meals - I can't help worrying, especially about the kitten who was born two weeks ago tomorrow but I haven't seen in eight days, but I just can't afford to let it take over my mind all the time. I have to not take it too personally when one of them isn't in the mood to tolerate my petting. [shrugs]

I'm not who you want for relationship advice, I gots no game, but it really really sounds like Dr. Girlfriend has had her heart broken a lot in the past and taken on a 'guy' attitude about holding boyfriends at emotional arm's-length and is commitment-averse. (You're actually doing well and causing her to consider going all-in with you, if I read that right - but she might get scared and break it off out of fear any second, so careful - but you're basically making an A in Dr. Girlfriend class, I think.) With the cats, I sit near quietly and cultivate a serene and non-threatening attitude, not reaching out and touching the older (wilder) female/mother nearly as much as I want - but not stopping making subtle advances completely for long; and it's worked so far.

Rah is totally right - your mind wants to obsess and overthink because you WANT that woman. Show her mellow Pekka all you can -good practice for all parts of life- and wait and see. Enjoy looking at the beautiful color of her fur...

[Pekka]

...I've been spending a terrific amount of time working on making friends with and taming my mother's feral cats. And you know? I've gone in four months from they run/hide from me like I'm a big mean dog to I'm petting both of them. -And still, they're cats, they're never going to be docile lap pets, and as attached as I've become, I have to not let myself get torn to pieces when they don't show up for meals - I can't help worrying, especially about the kitten who was born two weeks ago tomorrow but I haven't seen in eight days, but I just can't afford to let it take over my mind all the time. I have to not take it too personally when one of them isn't in the mood to tolerate my petting. [shrugs]

I'm not who you want for relationship advice, I gots no game, but it really really sounds like Dr. Girlfriend has had her heart broken a lot in the past and taken on a 'guy' attitude about holding boyfriends at emotional arm's-length and is commitment-averse. (You're actually doing well and causing her to consider going all-in with you, if I read that right - but she might get scared and break it off out of fear any second, so careful - but you're basically making an A in Dr. Girlfriend class, I think.) With the cats, I sit near quietly and cultivate a serene and non-threatening attitude, not reaching out and touching the older (wilder) female/mother nearly as much as I want - but not stopping making subtle advances completely for long; and it's worked so far.

Rah is totally right - your mind wants to obsess and overthink because you WANT that woman. Show her mellow Pekka all you can -good practice for all parts of life- and wait and see. Enjoy looking at the beautiful color of her fur...

Correct, both of you. I guess I come here to write so I get a peace of mind. I act strangely these days. I write poems and never send them to her. I am thinking of reading one to her, my favourite one, about her, in London.

I try not to overthink. I forgive. I am very flexible. She says she likes me being so easy to be around with and that we are taking it slow.

A week ago she paid me her first compliment in terms of how I look. After what, 8 months? First time she says she likes what I am wearing and it looks good on me. I was taken aback. I think she hit a weird place since we spent a weekend at her ex-hubbies father's cottage. Brings all the memories. So I focus on facts; She has introduced me AS her boyfriend to her most important friends who now invite me to things, to her parents as well, and as to her father as a boyfriend, and told me he liked me more than most of her other boyfriends and defo more than her ex-husband, and her mom liked me as well and said "he's a keeper".

I am not the most assertive guy to come forward with romantic feelings, they were shut down by my ex-wife on the regular for a decade and it was exhausting. Now? Again, shut down. I might be projecting my ex-wife into her, and getting the same feeling of games and ultimate betrayal for sure. The thing is, I am nice and sensitive, I am definitely not dumb and everything registers, words, body language, slips be unintentional or intentional. Even with my damaged brain, I have a really good memory. I can go verbatum on dates we had last January. I can, with some effort, count the dresses she has worn and where we went, what we had, what topics we discussed. It is a pain as then I can also recount stories that are changing, when talk does not match behaviour. Not even thinking about it, I notice it by default. Not like I always tell the whole truth and nothing but. Yes I lie. We all do. I lie to my benefit, too. And I get embarrased when I realise I was just caught and never make an attempt to explain it as that puts me in a defensive position, so in a sense I can be a bit manipulative as well. Knowing this all, I don't think I am any different, just cursed with memory and brain that does not stop; I guess the biggest contribution to my insomnia at times. Though that is almost always work related (solving problems and puzzles).

So it is like this game of back and forth. She warms up, I ease up and go a bit further, she goes totally cold and so I shut down. I should say that we don't see each other except on the weekends. So that makes it like once a week, sometimes twice. Lately though, we have been seeing more, and in terms of time, we are not taking several day trips. I look at those facts and consider them, compare to what I feel as a ****ty behaviour, forgive her and attribute it to her being perhaps even more scared than myself.

Let's face it, we are all scared. One of the things we are most scared of, or at least I am, is to love and not have it returned. That is common, but worse is if the other one loves too, but is too afraid and the lack of courage ends the opportunity. That is what I fear the most. I think she denies herself of the deeper feelings out of fear, and takes it out on me in terms of going cold and saying something to insult me. But is it not what people do? Young kids often tease those who they like the most. Why would adults be any different?

That said, Friday is here soon, and we will be flying to London for a great extended weekend getaway.

[rah]

Repeat after me.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.

[Buster Crabbe's Uncle]

What he said.

[Bereta_Eder]

I think she denies herself of the deeper feelings out of fear, and takes it out on me in terms of going cold and saying something to insult me. But is it not what people do?

Nope

[Pekka]

Repeat after me.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.
She is not like my ex-wife. No one could be as bad as my ex-wife.

She is not, but there are worse, my ex-wife was not intelligent. If she had even half of my gf's intelligence, she would have destroyed me.

My ex is relatively easy. She's just bad. But also predictable. Beyond that blank stare of hers, she could not outwit me even when I was dead tired and almost dead. I would say a bit below average intelligence that she made up with grandiose delusions about her smarts.

One of her best friends last weekend told her she is doing so much better now, and she looks better, too. Happier. Like herself. I hear in that, "and that guy you came with might have something to do with it" as an implication. And it was exactly after that night when things turned cold.

I do take comfort in her directness, my ex was not direct. I'd rather take "you're being stupid now" than smiles that mean nothing. And I get "That is nto logical at all", all the time. Especially if she is being cold to me. I'd still take the cold instead of fake. She has never been out to truly hurt me, but sets limits so strong that it's something I have not ever had before. After she losens up, say we have a great day together, which is usually making food together and hanging out, maybe some bed time and a few drinks, she then, without failing opens up a bit and says the good things, how she hopes this works out and if it does not, we should still be friends. She is flirting with the idea of going to the PCT with me. We talked about the PCT with her mum and she was encouraging "You should go when you are still young and you can!", and even being a doctor she keeps talking about it. She would have to take 5 months off to join me. But she has said several times she is tempted to come. I'll go anyway, but it would be cool if she joined.

There even would be an optimal time for it for the both of us (beginning of 2018). Shes specializing in far away hospital during 2017, and I'm busy getting my PhD out, finally, and after that... not only have I hit 5 years of cancer free, but we could, in theory, fly to the Mexican border and hike for 5 months and fullfill that dream! She is also loving the idea. Her Mum is loving the idea.

Her talk is changing, she is bringing up the idea that some day she wants to move back to Australia. Which is cool, to which I say "I could not do that yet, the kids are too small" and she continues how she would love to spend the summers in Finland though and maybe if they're old enough at some point.... dot dot dot silence. Yeah, that could work. But she is obviously thinking about long term things. And being hell of a gear switcher in between.

[Pekka]

Nope

Did not sleep much, had nightmares. Bad ones. This would be the third, or fourth time I wake up sweating like a pig with a horrible feeling. Where the protagonist is Dr. Lovely.

There's nothing tangible in the dream, the last and only thing I remember is her smirk. She smirks at me and it invokes a feeling of pure horror.

I am undecided if I project my past experiences onto her, or if not. There would be plenty of things that would indicate some issues with Dr. Lovely. She has lied to me a lot. Going back and forth, trying to figure out which one of us is being a nut is exhausting. Do not get me wrong, she does fit all the traits of a sociopath. I am trying to figure out, and have been, if it is just an aftermath of a broken heart and still in the healing process, or if she is like that normally. Difficult to tell, as I see her so rarely. She avoids communication in terms of messaeges and phone calls. When I want to talk to her, she has had a blah day, no talky. Fine. When I send her a message, she reads it immediately, and might answer the next day or at least in several hours. I am not one to demand high-speed constant messaging, I find it irritating, but this must be a new record. I figure maybe she is just not into that. Then again, when we are together, she is constantly on the phone, messaging. Even if we go to a fancy restaurant. She takes a bathroom break and comes back for the phone. I find it rude. I say that I am turning my phone off, now, because this is a good restaurant and I feel we should focus on the menu and each other. Turn it off and put it away. She won't. Never has, probably never will.

She is very intelligent, but my experience is more on the philosophy side so I catch her on fallacies and call her up on them, as she has said how she likes debates. So I challenge her. She feels very pissy when I demolish the underlying principle she is trying to use in her argument, and even worse, call science on her butt, she goes quiet. Does not say anything for a long time. The rest of the day is obviously screwed. She does all the same things that I've experienced before, she is claiming me her property, and making subtle cancer jokes in public. I don't mind that, I find it amusing, genuinely. I just wonder why SHE finds it so funny. And she keeps on it. Keeps and keeps and never lets go.

She makes promises she does not keep. She often suggests dates she has absolutely no intention to go to, with me. She still, STILL, talks quite openly about other men she has had sex with. At least not during, but after AND before. I feel, that often, she is testing my boundaries, tries to see where they're at and keeps pushing and pushing. Just for the fun of it, I think. She does not provide any intimacy not initiated by her. She always has this bored-to-death face when she meets me, then after a while it changes into more cheerful thing. I have to "work" to make things fun. She never displays any interest on me, rarely asks anything related to my life, kids, work, nothing. She used to, not anymore. She also never tells about her days, except "blah day, no talky". Sometimes a discussion is next to impossible; I asked her how her 2 week trip to UK was, and she said "superb.". That was the extent of it. I asked anything more? What did you do? "It was superb." OK....

I do confront her when she says hurtful things and ask why she said that, "oh it's just a joke, I thought you could take it.". I can take a joke, IF it is a joke. Sometimes it's difficult to tell if it's joking or if it is meant to sting and see my reaction. If I knew in my heart she just jokes, I'd be fine. She is not like that with her friends at all. Only with me. Then again, this I can forego. As long as she is not having a double life (like my ex-wife did), then it's fine. I can take a lot, but I'd need her to be more open to me.

The promise I made to myself, of course, was to trust my gut instinct. I was right about my ex all the time, I just lied to myself that she is just having a difficult time. She was cheated on and yada yada. I feel like I am walking on egg shells and avoiding certain topics; I am clearly afraid of the answer. Most likely I will get none, not as in one that pleases me, but literally none.The things she talked about her ex are disturbing, but who knows if they are true. I would not know. My ex "became" me when we were together, and now she is this new guy. It's so weird. But Dr. Lovely and my ex are extremely different in many respects. Ex was all over me all the time, whereas Dr. Lovely is very distant. I don't liek the whole pursuit thing. Maybe I should stop pursuing.

I dislike it very much when people are provoking for a reaction. I am calm and easygoing. I am not provoked by words. Only actions, and if they're severe, I will keep it to myself and make cunning plans that I'll never go thru for there rarely is any benefit, only risk. My gut instinct is telling me to be nice, polite and distance myself from Dr. Lovely, or forever be doomed. Alternatively, and I think for my own heart's sake, I should just start asking questions, not corner her, tell her things that I like about her (long list) and the things I'd like to work on (to which I also have to contribute). If she goes all angry on me, then hey, better now than later. I mean, I can say in the lines of, "As your boyfriend, I want to communicate better that we are on the same page and in order for us to make this work in the long run, things should be discussed openly, it would benefit the relationship, I believe". She cannot disagree with that statement. It is not unreasonable. And that can be an anchor to get off from tangents, "I'd like to go back to what we discussed first". And I would also state that as a boyfriend, I do not seek other women, and to me bf/gf means exclusive dating for now. What ever we decide in the future, be it for hedonistic purposes or what ever, we should discuss it. I do not condone cheating, but if I happen to fall for her deeply, let's be even more communicative when it comes to matters of non-traditional things. Kind of push her gently into agreeing that this is exclusive. This is a topic we have talked about and let's just say she is perhaps more open-minded than I am. And I am not that close-minded. I think we could do this on the last night there, we're going for a nice restaurant with wines, so with good food and wined up a bit, this should work, knowing her somewhat. I just need to know if she is like that as a person, or if she is recovering from her last relationship. Former? No go. Latter? Ok.. I just do not know ATM which one it is, and I for one am tired of being treated poorly as I am trying my best to be a decent person. Won't be having the whole "you are being weak". We can turn the tables around and I can return the favour, see how that feels? Would she take it? Nope. I would not do it, but if she does it to me and feels it is OK and me being weak, then obviously she is unable to put herself in the shoes of others and disregards other people. Again, a no go. Put an end to my nightmares.

These are just few facts, and I realise it is just over a week I am going for my check up and I am increasingly stressed and in fear of any kind of rejection.

[Bereta_Eder]

blah day, no talky

responce:

blah day, talky!

On a serious level, why would you allow yourself to be treated like a yo-yo?
These things don't always need explaining and aren't always solved by explaining either.

Just because she's a doctor and you think she's smart she gets the right to ditch the Supercitizen?

I think not.

[Bereta_Eder]

She avoids communication in terms of messaeges and phone calls. When I want to talk to her, she has had a blah day, no talky.

Strike #1

When I send her a message, she reads it immediately, and might answer the next day or at least in several hours.

strike #2

Then again, when we are together, she is constantly on the phone, messaging.

strike # 3

out of the court!

Even if we go to a fancy restaurant. She takes a bathroom break and comes back for the phone. I find it rude. I say that I am turning my phone off, now, because this is a good restaurant and I feel we should focus on the menu and each other. Turn it off and put it away. She won't. Never has, probably never will.

strike #4!

out of the court and out of the venue!

The rest of the day is obviously screwed. She does all the same things that I've experienced before, she is claiming me her property, and making subtle cancer jokes in public. I don't mind that, I find it amusing, genuinely. I just wonder why SHE finds it so funny. And she keeps on it. Keeps and keeps and never lets go.

strike #5

out of the court, out of the venue and there on the streets with the dogs and the homeless!

She makes promises she does not keep.

strike #6!

on a train without a ticket to colombia!

She never displays any interest on me, rarely asks anything related to my life, kids, work, nothing. She used to, not anymore.

strike # 7!

on a train without a ticket to colombia with the ticket checker and a crocodile coming her way!

She also never tells about her days, except "blah day, no talky". Sometimes a discussion is next to impossible; I asked her how her 2 week trip to UK was, and she said "superb.". That was the extent of it. I asked anything more? What did you do? "It was superb." OK....

strike # 8!

Out on the sahara desert at summer with the bendiuns!!!


tbc

[Pekka]

Strike #1




strike #2



strike # 3

out of the court!



strike #4!

out of the court and out of the venue!



strike #5

out of the court, out of the venue and there on the streets with the dogs and the homeless!




strike #6!

on a train without a ticket to colombia!




strike # 7!

on a train without a ticket to colombia with the ticket checker and a crocodile coming her way!





strike # 8!

Out on the sahara desert at summer with the bendiuns!!!


tbc

I know, right... there's much more but I don't feel like going over that stuff. Makes me miserable to go over. But lots of good stuff as well. Maybe she has horrible trust issues... and maybe I am, again, making excuses for her. Like I did for my ex. And she is not my ex.

OTOH, she does carry her weight in terms of paying for dates as well. She has a really disturbing childhood, that would scew up anyone. I won't go over what it is, but I have no reason to doubt her on that.

Again, I took a nap and in it, I waited for her at the airport and she sent she left and is coming soon. But she never arrives. I msg her the tix are not refundable, are you coming soon, I won't go thru security without her. And I wait like an idiot and finally realise that I should just go home now. Unreasonable, but I am telling myself something.

I've also been worried about my own health. As in I've talked to my therapist if the brain damage causes mental health issues. No one seems to notice any difference in me, but would it be possible that it is actually me, and not her. For my ex-wife, she said obviously she as issues and usually what happens is that the "victim" also questions there own memory, sanity and so forth. Comes with the territory. And that since I actually question it in therapy is not usually what sociopaths do. Well then, am I overly paranoid? Perhaps. I just don't trust a word unless it is backed up by action accordingly. Just now, she lied to me. I asked if she was still at work since there was background noise and if I should call later. She said she is having a picnic. Yet, it was just raining hard before, and they were inside, as the echoes suggested. Why would one go for a picnic right after rain? If inside, it's not a picnic. I said she can brig one luggage and carry-on, revealing she has not packed. She also said she will be a bit late. I suggested we go together since we both take the same train, and she said she will come from another station, that is further away from her route. So we won't be meeting except at the airport.

edit: I had one beer and now I am with a better head. I realised I am once again projecting my past experience. I was going to surprise my wife with a trip to Paris. Her favourite city. We never did our honeymoon properly. We were already in the crisis mode and I figured let's do honemoon, trip to Paris, time for the two of us. Settle things. Fall in love again or that stuff.

I did not ask her before I kind of made the arrangements. I paid for it. I did not have much money. I even wrote this silly letter like a surprise!
I figured, since we had an argument that hey hon, I know things aren't good between us but let's go and enjoy Paris. If we decide it's over, let us part but let's do it in Paris. I want to go, I am healthy enough to go, or we might want to give it a go after all. Nothing to lose, right?

She said no, she does not want to go.

I even talked to her mom about it, she said, "Understand Pekka, please, she is tired. It is stressful to go abroad, you have to do packing, adn when you get back, you have to do laundry". What the ****? I literally had my mouth open. Usually people like to go to places, especially someone else is paying for it places. This is, by the way, the point when I realised there is something wrong, possibly with the both of them. And that it is so over and they know it.

I felt like an ass, exploited one, spent money I did not have.

Fortunately I was able to get a refund. It did end up costing some, but I got most of it out. The hotel let me off scott free as I gave them the sob story of a cancer man from his dying bed, trying to save marriage and come to their lovely hotel but wifey says no. They were sorry about the situation and said no charge. But the story was true. I felt they were very humane.

So I realise I am again going back to the crap times and nervous, maybe she won't come, though it makes no sense. Of course she comes, and that said, another beer! The last one. Better pack up my whip.

[Bereta_Eder]

I even talked to her mom about it, she said, "Understand Pekka, please, she is tired. It is stressful to go abroad, you have to do packing, adn when you get back, you have to do laundry".

sweet baby jezas....


Anyway IMHO you overthink things because trust is lacking.

That could be trust towards her or trust towards your feelings about her.

Also some people simply don't click and it's noone's fault. But you don't know untill you tried.

[ricketyclik]

Look for pleasure, wherever you may find it. It's mostly found in simple things in my experience. I got a great deal of pleasure out of planting a tree today. Smile at people. They usually smile back. It helps.

Learn to be still.

Forgive. Don't judge, or try to second guess.

(Advice to myself more than anyone else).

WRT the kids, I experienced the same thing when my first three were young, like yours. They're older now, and I wish I was more present with them back then. I manage to be more present with my fourth, now three, but still falter. They can be boring, irritating little eejits, after all.

[Bereta_Eder]

I don't understand how people who have kids, have problems.

This is the pinaccle of human existance. You are complete.

Then again I say that this isn't true and the pinacle of human existence is being with a person who you love and loves you.

Then I kind of try to marry the both but it's impossible