The Reverse Racism Effect

[Ming]

If you think this has no national significance then you don't know a damn thing about research. You start with a small sample. The size of the sample is chosen because it is significant. People don't waste money and resources on research for nothing. This is why you're being called stupid, not because of my lack of argument.

You should learn something about research. What you are saying is that it's OK to predict national significance based on a single city sample.
Using your logic, the latest June 27th poll done in Arkansas which shows Trump beating Clinton 47% to 36% means the Trump is killing Clinton on a national basis...
Which he isn't. If you want to predict National results, you need a national sample.

In the case of their study, it was done by researchers at Washington State University. They picked Spokane policemen because they were local and available.
There was no intent to make it a national study. At best, the study could be used to say there isn't a Racism problem in the Spokane police department.
But to say that the Spokane police department represents a national sample is simply incorrect...

So again, learn a little something about real research.

[Kidlicious]

You should learn something about research. What you are saying is that it's OK to predict national significance based on a single city sample.
Using your logic, the latest June 27th poll done in Arkansas which shows Trump beating Clinton 47% to 36% means the Trump is killing Clinton on a national basis...
Which he isn't. If you want to predict National results, you need a national sample.

In the case of their study, it was done by researchers at Washington State University. They picked Spokane policemen because they were local and available.
There was no intent to make it a national study. At best, the study could be used to say there isn't a Racism problem in the Spokane police department.
But to say that the Spokane police department represents a national sample is simply incorrect...

So again, learn a little something about real research.

First, it shows that there IS a racism problem (bias against blacks). But it also shows that blacks are not getting shot because of bias against them.

Second, there is intent for a national study. I've already said so, but it went into one of your ears and imediately out of the other. First you do a small study to conserve money and resources.

Third, there are plenty of polls that predict Hillary in the lead. You are insisting that none of them are significant by themselves, yet by themselves they predict the leader (assuming the significance of polls).

[Ming]

First, it shows that there IS a racism problem (bias against blacks). But it also shows that blacks are not getting shot because of bias against them.

Yeah, at best, ignoring any other problem with the study, that blacks are not getting shot because of bias against them in Spokane.

Second, there is intent for a national study. I've already said so, but it went into one of your ears and imediately out of the other. First you do a small study to conserve money and resources.

And the results are likely to be very different since it will be a national sample. So what's your point?

Third, there are plenty of polls that predict Hillary in the lead. You are insisting that none of them are significant by themselves, yet by themselves they predict the leader (assuming the significance of polls).

Something about it went into one of your ears and immediately out the other....
One more time so that you might actually understand. If you want to predict national results, use a national sample. You can't use an Arkansas sample to predict national results.

[Kidlicious]

Yeah, at best, ignoring any other problem with the study, that blacks are not getting shot because of bias against them in Spokane.



And the results are likely to be very different since it will be a national sample. So what's your point?



Something about it went into one of your ears and immediately out the other....
One more time so that you might actually understand. If you want to predict national results, use a national sample. You can't use an Arkansas sample to predict national results.

Idk if you know this but Spokane is fairly red neck. Where in the country do you think cops are less likely to be worried about being considered racist?

[Ming]

Idk if you know this but Spokane is fairly red neck. Where in the country do you think cops are less likely to be worried about being considered racist?

Even if what you say is true, it doesn't change the fact that it isn't a national sample. Spokane is like the 94 largest city in the country. Most of the shootings in this country are happening in or near the larger cities. So what's your point?

[Kidlicious]

Even if what you say is true, it doesn't change the fact that it isn't a national sample. Spokane is like the 94 largest city in the country. Most of the shootings in this country are happening in or near the larger cities. So what's your point?

Location could be significant. A poll in Oklahoma that predicted Clinton the leader in that state would say a lot about her chances to win. Idk why cops in larger cities would shoot more black men, or why they might not be as concerned about being considered racist, but it's possible that black men are more likely to be shot there is because they grow up in the inner city, and it has something to do with their culture and not the culture of the police,

[rah]

Let me know when this one is replicated. Until then, it's a minor curiosity.

[Aeson]

Are there even blacks in Spokane? Other than that one lady who identifies as African American? I grew up in central Washington and spent my high school years in Idaho and literally never saw a single African American (not on TV) while living in those places. Maybe the Spokane cops were hesitating because they were surprised to see them.

[Kidlicious]

[Ellestar]

This was done at Washington State University.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2016/04/27/this-study-found-race-matters-in-police-shootings-but-the-results-may-surprise-you/

How many more liberals want to accuse them of bad science?

Simulator is probably not perfect. It may be that cultural differences cause more aggression from police. Say, pose, body language, percieved behaviour (and given that police in USA are usually whites, they are likely to instinctively feel that a different culture is more threatening to them than their own culture). It's probably not body colour anyway. And simulator is very likely to fail to show these differences to testers.

[Kidlicious]

Simulator is probably not perfect. It may be that cultural differences cause more aggression from police. Say, pose, body language, percieved behaviour (and given that police in USA are usually whites, they are likely to instinctively feel that a different culture is more threatening to them than their own culture). It's probably not body colour anyway. And simulator is very likely to fail to show these differences to testers.

Actually black men are more likely to attack police.

[Dry]

The Harvard test is an example of something done right.
This research is based on a sample base consisting of a ton of police from Spokane, not Chicago, Washington, St. Louis, or any other major city with race issues.
It's not representative of the Major Cities at all and can't be considered a national sample... Combine that with the video game aspect and you have a study which produces results that are probably less than "limited"

I'm only at the first reading of the full article and I have already noticed these:

The Harvard test is an example of something done right

Present Study
Second, and perhaps more important, in addition to testing participants in the simulators, we measured participants' implicit bias directly by using the well-validated “race/weapons” version of Harvard's Implicit Association Test (IAT).

And later

Implicit Association Test (IAT)

In addition to simulated tasks, officers were tested on a battery of operationally relevant cognitive assessments, including the race/weapons Implicit Association Test (IAT), developed by Project Implicit at Harvard University, to investigate participants’ associations between race and threat. The race/weapons IAT is a well-validated tool that requires participants to identify quickly whether a picture of a face on the screen in front of them is White or Black (by pressing one of two buttons)...

the video game aspect and you have a study which produces results that are probably less than "limited"

The experiments were conducted in the Simulated Hazardous Operational Tasks (SHOT) laboratory, which is part of Washington State University (WSU)'s Sleep and Performance Research Center (SPRC). We tested the behavior of 80 experienced police patrol officers during repeated 5.5-hour sessions by using a set of highly realistic, dynamic simulations of critical daily operational tasks, one of which was deadly force judgment and decision making.
[...]
It was stressed to officers that they respond as they do during training, as if they were in a real deadly encounter. Thus, if participants were faced with a potentially deadly threat, they were to decide immediately whether deadly force was warranted and, if so, to shoot as quickly and accurately as possible until the threat was neutralized.

Additional tasks that participants underwent throughout the 5.5-hour experimental day that are not being reported here included simulated driving (distracted and nondistracted), cognitive testing, psychomotor vigilance testing, and tactical social interaction.

that's quite an intensive video game...

And

Participants

Power calculations based on pilot data revealed that 80 subjects would allow us to detect an effect of the independent variables with an effect size as small as 0.2 with more than 80% power. Thus, with 80 subjects, we were confident that our study was sufficiently sensitive to meet Cohen's criterion of less than 0.2 for the smallest worthwhile effect size.

I tried to google what the F... is the Cohen's criterion, but I'm too rookie in statistical distribution to understand what it is or if it is even relevant. But it sounds scientific, so it as effective as a white lab coat in some pharmaceutical ad for me.

And finally

it does not seem that participants favored being “right” to look good to the researchers over choosing what they believed to be an appropriate response. This also speaks to the time pressure of the experiments. Participants were consistently asked to respond in ways that they would on the street—to make a decision as quickly as they could, as if their lives depended on it. The physiological data collected from participants suggest that they were highly immersed in the simulations, adding to our argument that this testing method is more externally valid than seated button-pressing designs, and that our scenarios accurately represent deadly encounters on the street.

[Ming]

The best test in the world is worthless if the sample is wrong. As even she notes, it wasn't a very diversified sample. Plus, they were all from the same town.
Any attempt to project these results beyond Spokane is worthless.

As rah said, let me know when they do this on a bigger scale, with a national and diverse sample... then the results may be worth looking at.

[Kidlicious]

The best test in the world is worthless if the sample is wrong. As even she notes, it wasn't a very diversified sample. Plus, they were all from the same town.
Any attempt to project these results beyond Spokane is worthless.

As rah said, let me know when they do this on a bigger scale, with a national and diverse sample... then the results may be worth looking at.

Predictable

[Ming]

Yep... very predictable that I will continue to point out the major flaw in the study, and that it goes in one ear and out your other.

But please, continue to display your total lack of knowledge on research. It's always worth a good laugh.