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  • You said children have rights. Did you mean that?
    Children do have rights, which is why divorced parents have the right to see their children.
    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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    • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post
      Well, I can opnly speak of the german society, of course:

      Regarding Neonazis (and their complex of Antisemitism, Racism, Nationalism):
      Well, there are big differences between germany and the USA.

      Germany lost the war and germans got told by everyone how evil they were (KZs and so on).
      Also we lost the last remnants of Ostpreussen (illegally) to Poland and the USSR (actually the plans were, that polands and russians were to manage this territory and that, some time later there would be anotzher conference among all allies regarding what would become of Ostpreussen (i.e. if it would be given back to germany) ... but actually the russians just outright annexed their part of Ostpreussen (and deported all germans) ... and the Polands deported all germans from their part of Ostpreussen, settled Poles in their stead and then held a referendum (among the now pure polish population) of Ostpreussen, wether they want to become a part of Poland.
      All of the other Allies just watched and did nothing to prevent this.

      While most of the germans just accept that it is at it is (and also that Ostpreussen is lost forever), the whole thing is a breeding ground for lots of groups who have beliefs that are in contrast with the wellbeing of germany or the cooperation with other countries.
      There are many families among those deported from Ostpreussen, who want their lands back ... there are those who are taken in their pride that germany lost the war (and think that german should be great again, with german soldier boots stomping on our neighbors soil) ... there are those who buy into the Nazi propaganda about aryan superiority and that Aryans should rule the lesser races ... or thzat a jewish world conspiracy exists ... and there are also the Reichsbürger, who don't accept the FRG as a state and live in their own fantasy world where they form their own Reichs-Governments, issue Reichs-Driving Licenses and so on.

      The problem is worsened by the fact that in the GDR (in contrast to the FRG), there never was an active denazification campaign. Insteads the russian overlords of the GDR just claimed, that the Nazi movement is just a problemof the decadent west and that, in the paradise of the communists, there is no such things like Fascism.
      With the result that, when the GDR was disbanded, a lot of people fell for the Neonazi propaganda of right wing parties and they gained lots of influence .. also culminating in the incidents at Rostock and Lichtenhagen in the 90s, where right wing youths threw stones and Molotov Cocktails at asylum seeker homes and a large crowd of city inhabitants stood around and applauded them.
      (Meanwhile the influence of the right wing has lessened in eastern germany, but it still is widespread, as shown by Pegida, which started in Dresden and Leipzig)

      What do you think, would happen if people like these were allowed to homeschool their kids?



      As for Muslims:
      It is rather the contrary ... a (hopefully small) part of the muslims in germany actually lives in their own world ... that means, traditionally muslim role models (meaning, the girl has to obey the men in the family (and later her husband)), ultrareligiosity, sometimes forced marriages and so on. In some families the wifes even cannot speak all too good german, despite having been in germany for many years ... and often their children (who visit german schools) have to translate for them.

      The radicalization into becoming accessible for propaganda of IS(IS) usually happens in the social group of muslim mosques ... not always the preachers themselves (although there are some, which are under observation by the german version of the FBI), but more often by recruiters who are "simple" attendees to the religious services and actively look out for "victims" that may be easy to influence.

      Homeschooling among these muslim families would have the effect that they feel even more, primary as muslims, outsiders of the german society and not as germans, therefore creating a society withion the german society, which is even harder (than now) to get into accepting european values.

      I am sure that with homeschooling we already would have had some terrorism like in france ... and/or islamist quarters like Molenbeek in Belgium


      So, I think that the situation in germany is a little bit different than the one in the USA. Especially also considering the fact that the USA has only few muslim refugees (due to their distance to the crisis regions), and most people only get into the USA with a Greencard (i.e. only a preselected few)

      As for public schools:
      They do (at least in my time in the 80s, but I am sure also nowadays) a very good job in counteracting right wing propaganda (actually we had the Third Reich multiple times and also watched former NS propaganda films like "Der ewige Jude" which actually is countertpropaganda today, because it shows what the Nazis did to the jewish inhabitants in the Ghetto of Warscaw).
      And nope, I have never experienced school lessons where the muslims were one-sidedly portrayed as victims.
      How many times has Germany, or Germans, invaded Poland? Idk, just asking since you know more than I do.

      Other than that I don't disagree with anything else.
      I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
      - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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      • Is the majority of the US citizens pro polygamous marriages?
        If the majority of Germany votes in favor of sharia that means Sharia is law in Germany?

        As for homosexual marriages AFAIK latest polls show that more than 60% of the USians have a positive attitude towartds homosexual marriages,
        so allowing them surely represents the will of the majority of US citizens
        The argument before was that the majority should not get to strip 'rights' away from people who don't have them. Now the argument is that the majority should be able to do so? Interesting.

        The correct argument is that the majority has nothing to do with this sort of thing. The majority is in many cases wrong, but we shall see how that all plays out in the future. Especially since we have folks like Ming arguing that a 125k fine on bakers is 'appropriate'.
        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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        • So has Ben apoliogized the the gays or has he effectuated the third schism?
          Why would I be in schism for staying with what the Catholic church has always taught? I mean if Francis wants to kick out CDL Sarah, he's welcome to try.
          Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
          "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
          2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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          • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
            Sure. But it offers a chilling reminder as to why it's important to understand how that all came about.
            Sure ... but without the Ermächtigungsgesetz (that came as a result of a (probably faked) terrorist attack), Hitler wouldn't have had the power to turn germany into a Nazi dictatorship (and put it into war with half of the world).
            (actually he had to do some scheming with the Ermächtigungsgesetz itself, by preventing several parties from attending the gathering where it was voted for or against the Ermächtigungsgesetz ... without this, he wouldn't have succeeded, as the NSDAPs votes wouldn't have been sufficient)

            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
            We have multiple not Christian sources that speak of his existence. So no, it's not.
            Which are as disputable as the stories about the delegation to Solon ...
            especially as the non christian sources are talking only about the existence of christians but don't confirm the existence of a preacher named Jesus himself

            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
            I would argue the same. Marriage is defined by the union of a man and a woman together.
            Nevertheless there are american christians who disagree with you (and marry couples in a religious ceremony regardless of whether they are m/f, m/m or f/f)
            Are your beliefs more worth than theirs?

            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
            Right. Because I *am* an American
            Oh I don't claim you are ...
            but unfortunately such an USian megalomania oftemn is present in the dealings of the USA with other countries

            Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
            Erdogan shouldn't have let them through his borders. Now they are his responsibility.
            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
            Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

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            • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
              If the majority of Germany votes in favor of sharia that means Sharia is law in Germany?



              The argument before was that the majority should not get to strip 'rights' away from people who don't have them. Now the argument is that the majority should be able to do so? Interesting.

              The correct argument is that the majority has nothing to do with this sort of thing. The majority is in many cases wrong, but we shall see how that all plays out in the future. Especially since we have folks like Ming arguing that a 125k fine on bakers is 'appropriate'.
              How does allowing homosexual marriages strip away the rights of anyone?
              Catholic preachers still are allowed to not marry homosexcual couples in church.
              And heterosexual couples still are allowed to marry without any less rights provided to them
              Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
              Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

              Comment


              • Sure ... but without the Ermächtigungsgesetz (that came as a result of a (probably faked) terrorist attack), Hitler wouldn't have had the power to turn germany into a Nazi dictatorship (and put it into war with half of the world).

                (actually he had to do some scheming with the Ermächtigungsgesetz itself, by preventing several parties from attending the gathering where it was voted for or against the Ermächtigungsgesetz ... without this, he wouldn't have succeeded, as the NSDAPs votes wouldn't have been sufficient)
                He only had the strength because he was the largest party in the Reichstag at the time. Had he been utterly repudiated in the election, nobody, least of all the Chancellor would have had any reason to deal with him. That the majority were anti-democratic really hindered the SDP.

                especially as the non christian sources are talking only about the existence of christians but don't confirm the existence of a preacher named Jesus himself
                We have one roman source that claims roman law based on solon. We have multiple attestations of Jesus from non Christian sources, and no - they do confirm that his name was Jesus. Pretty sure we had those discussions on here years ago.

                Nevertheless there are american christians who disagree with you (and marry couples in a religious ceremony regardless of whether they are m/f, m/m or f/f)
                Are your beliefs more worth than theirs?
                I don't see how they reconcile that with what the bible actually teaches. They call themselves 'Christian', but don't follow the bible. I don't understand the theology behind it aside from they believe their desires prevail.

                I don't think they'll remain long a church, because the theology is incoherent. You don't need Christ to march in the parades.
                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                • Originally posted by Kidicious View Post
                  How many times has Germany, or Germans, invaded Poland? Idk, just asking since you know more than I do.

                  Other than that I don't disagree with anything else.
                  That's actually a difficult question, because Prussia, the teutonic order and Poland have a history full of conflicts, that stretches for more than half a millenium (example for one of the earlier conflicts: Battle at Tannenberg, 1410)
                  Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                  Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post
                    That's actually a difficult question, because Prussia, the teutonic order and Poland have a history full of conflicts, that stretches for more than half a millenium (example for one of the earlier conflicts: Battle at Tannenberg, 1410)
                    That is probably why the Allies allowed Poland to make itself more capable of defending itself. Our primary concern was peace.
                    Last edited by Kidlicious; July 8, 2016, 12:49.
                    I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                    - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

                    Comment


                    • How does allowing homosexual marriages strip away the rights of anyone?
                      One, Christian bakers, and others are being stripped of their rights to freedom of association.
                      Two, at least in Canada, Christians who attend an accredited school are not being permitted to practice law in the largest province. (although they are permitted to practice elsewhere)
                      Three, with adoption cases, Christian adoption agencies are being stripped of their right to adopt children.
                      Four, you have children being taken away from their parents. There's at least one case I've heard of where a former lesbian left her lover and is being threatened with loss of custody over her daughter. Which is bizarre, because the other woman is not biologically related to the daughter at all, and the child was the child of a previous relationship.

                      So.. yeah. There are all kinds of conflicts that have come up because of this, and in only a few short years.

                      Catholic preachers still are allowed to not marry homosexcual couples in church.
                      There is already a law in Iowa barring Churches from doing so.

                      And heterosexual couples still are allowed to marry without any less rights provided to them
                      For now. That may change in the future.
                      Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                      "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                      2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                      • And easier for you to post personal stuff that no one can confirm. Every day it's something new.
                        You're the one claiming that you know more about my personal life than I do. That's actually, really amusing.

                        For me, my friends acknowledgement of your douchier is confirmed since many of them post here and have experienced your vile bigotry.
                        Not my imagination.
                        Really. Like the vile douchery that came about when I offered to pay for a round of golf for you and Ming, eh? I seem to remember one of your friends taking serious pains to apologize for you because he was ashamed.

                        So you're a crappy brother too. Nice to have confirmation. Since the most important think in life is family and friends and you fail at both, you have no redeeming values.
                        Yes, because Rah likes to comment on issues that he has no clue about. Anything else you want to tell me about my family?

                        No, I'm accepting their belief.
                        And you've proven my case. You're assuming all homosexual people think the same.

                        Just another indication of how clueless you are.
                        You can't even distinguish between 'their' and 'his'.

                        Since you aren't a father, I think I win that one by default.
                        Gee, I guess that we aren't talking about the hypothetical.

                        But if you refuse to go to your child's wedding, You don't deserve the title of father.
                        And if I lead my child into hell, what would I have to say at the end of things? Millstones, rah. It's my responsibility to teach my child.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                        • Originally posted by Kidicious View Post
                          That is probably why the Allies allowed Poland to make itself more capable of defending itself. Out primary concern was peace.
                          As I said ... the deportation of germans, as well as the polish referendum took place without the permission of the allies.
                          Similar the annexation of (and deportations of almost all germans in) the part of Eastern Prussia that was managed by Russia (i.e. the part with the city Königsberg, which nowadays is called Kaliningrad)

                          All of these territories were supposed to have a pending status (despite being under russian/polish administration), until a final decision was reached among all allied powers ... something that never took place before 1990 (at which time the annexation already had taken place)

                          Which is, why some people are still enraged and don't accept nowadays status of former eastern prussia (especially those who formerly possessed large swaths of lands in these regions)
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "I am the Harbinger of Death. I arrive on winds of blessed air. Air that you no longer deserve."
                          Tamsin (Lost Girl): "He has fallen in battle and I must take him to the Einherjar in Valhalla"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Proteus_MST View Post
                            As I said ... the deportation of germans, as well as the polish referendum took place without the permission of the allies.
                            Similar the annexation of (and deportations of almost all germans in) the part of Eastern Prussia that was managed by Russia (i.e. the part with the city Königsberg, which nowadays is called Kaliningrad)

                            All of these territories were supposed to have a pending status (despite being under russian/polish administration), until a final decision was reached among all allied powers ... something that never took place before 1990 (at which time the annexation already had taken place)

                            Which is, why some people are still enraged and don't accept nowadays status of former eastern prussia (especially those who formerly possessed large swaths of lands in these regions)
                            I understand. People are upset about things like that in the US. Parents are allowed to teach their children whatever they are fit. Public school teachers are not permitted to advocate such beliefs. That said, allowing homeschooling doesn't cause much trouble here,
                            I drank beer. I like beer. I still like beer. ... Do you like beer Senator?
                            - Justice Brett Kavanaugh

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                            • Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
                              I will tell him the same thing I told my brother. That I'm not going to his wedding.
                              And he'll probably think the same about you as your brother did when he posted here. That you're a ****.

                              Comment


                              • And he'll probably think the same about you as your brother did when he posted here. That you're a ****.
                                More people commenting on things they don't know about. Y'all are sooo predictable!
                                Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                                "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                                2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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