Zealot

[Proteus_MST]

None of these explain why someone like me would become a Christian. Like, I believe elok alluded to, you would do better to ask Christians why they chose that religion. For me the answer is not because I'm poor, or because someone like Paul spoke to me. It's because of Jesus. It's not like any old messiah would do.

...

But the religion you were attracted to is the result of centuries of development by its followers (no matter whether you are protestant or catholic).
IMHO it may be hard to say whether you would have been as attracted to the original jewish sect that has been found by a historical Yeshua ben Yoseph

[Kidlicious]

But the religion you were attracted to is the result of centuries of development by its followers (no matter whether you are protestant or catholic).
IMHO it may be hard to say whether you would have been as attracted to the original jewish sect that has been found by a historical Yeshua ben Yoseph

Are you suggesting that people screwed around with the meaning of his words, and that they made the religion more attractive by doing so?

I don't think that's possible. Exhibit A: Mormonism.

[Proteus_MST]

Are you suggesting that people screwed around with the meaning of his words, and that they made the religion more attractive by doing so?

I don't think that's possible. Exhibit A: Mormonism.

I definitely think that they added to it and also changed it ...
for example Paulus with his views on the role of women in the parish,
the abolishment of certaoin jewish practices ... and so on.

All things that didn't exist in jewish christianity when Jesus himself was active

[ricketyclik]

Are you suggesting that people screwed around with the meaning of his words, and that they made the religion more attractive by doing so?

I don't think that's possible. Exhibit A: Mormonism.

No, that couldn't happen! People never rewrite history to serve their own purposes!

[Kidlicious]

I definitely think that they added to it and also changed it ...
for example Paulus with his views on the role of women in the parish,
the abolishment of certaoin jewish practices ... and so on.

All things that didn't exist in jewish christianity when Jesus himself was active

Really? We've been over this. What makes you think Jesus was a stickler for Jewish laws and tradition?

[Kidlicious]

No, that couldn't happen! People never rewrite history to serve their own purposes!

We aren't talking about history. The bible isn't a history book. You'll have to do better than that.

[Aeson]

It's nice to see a thread stick so closely to the thread title for once ... well done Kid

[Proteus_MST]

Really? We've been over this. What makes you think Jesus was a stickler for Jewish laws and tradition?

Jesus himself never said something about abolishing jewish traditions.
He had a relaxed view about strictly obeying Sabbath, but that was all about it.
All abolishments/changes of jewish practices (like Sabbath on Sunday, no circumcision etc.) took place after his death, where conveniently he couldn't protest them anymore

We aren't talking about history. The bible isn't a history book. You'll have to do better than that.

Actually yes, in this thread we are talking about history, the historical Jesus ... see OP

[ricketyclik]

We aren't talking about history. The bible isn't a history book. You'll have to do better than that.

OK, how about People never make up sheer bunkum to manipulate other people?

[Elok]

Jesus himself never said something about abolishing jewish traditions.
He had a relaxed view about strictly obeying Sabbath, but that was all about it.
All abolishments/changes of jewish practices (like Sabbath on Sunday, no circumcision etc.) took place after his death, where conveniently he couldn't protest them anymore

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wine_into_Old_Wineskins

[Elok]

Also, re: superimposing Christian rites on old pagan ones with attendant customs: this tends to get depicted as some kind of deliberate move to extinguish pagan culture on the part of Christian hierarchs, which is rather unlikely. Consider today, when plenty of Jews and Muslims and seculars celebrate Christmas by ignoring all the theology in favor of the vapid twaddle about eggnog and snowmen and a flying fatty in red pajamas. This isn't a deliberate move to eclipse Christianity as such, is it? No, it's just that most people are more attached to old customs than they are to old beliefs, so when the latter stop appealing to them they just drag the former away with them, adjusting labels as necessary. Likewise Halloween, St. Patrick's Day, St. Valentine's Day, and to a lesser extent Easter have all been divorced from their religious origins to fit the things we value in modern Western society (playing dress-up, public drunkenness, idolization of sexual infatuation, candy).

[Kidlicious]

Jesus himself never said something about abolishing jewish traditions.
He had a relaxed view about strictly obeying Sabbath, but that was all about it.
All abolishments/changes of jewish practices (like Sabbath on Sunday, no circumcision etc.) took place after his death, where conveniently he couldn't protest them anymore



Actually yes, in this thread we are talking about history, the historical Jesus ... see OP

This is the way tradition was explained to me when I became a member of the church, it's the accumulation of reason. What is your definition? Jesus didn't believe things just because others before him believed them. Claiming that he believed in tradition is flat out ridiculous. Anyone who believes in tradition is a fool.

I don't think you understand Jesus very well. Practicing the Sabbath on Sunday or Saturday doesn't really matter. Please show me where Jesus insisted that the Sabbath be practiced on a particular day.

[Kidlicious]

OK, how about People never make up sheer bunkum to manipulate other people?

You mean like agnosticism?

One of the reasons I believe in Jesus is because he was different. If you think Jesus was a common person you don't understand him.

[Elok]

No, YOU are educated stupid and cannot understand the ineffable mystery of nature's simultaneous four-day time cube!

[Kidlicious]

No, YOU are educated stupid and cannot understand the ineffable mystery of nature's simultaneous four-day time cube!

You doubt that Jesus was unlike common men?